A neighbor asked me about upgrading her breaker box.

I used to know what it is. However now, to see the value on my main
breaker would require climbing on the dryer and using a mirror but I do
know that the box has 4 duplex breakers (for the oven, water heater, AC,
and clothes dryer), 12 15-amp breakers and it has 6 empty slots before I
used one. One breaker is a GFI.

Does that imply how much amperage the house is wired for?

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.

It seems to me there is nothing a normal person could want to add that
would require a bigger box. Maybe an electric chair would need more.

??

On 01/20/2018 01:45 PM, micky wrote:
A neighbor asked me about upgrading her breaker box.

I used to know what it is. However now, to see the value on my main
breaker would require climbing on the dryer and using a mirror but I do
know that the box has 4 duplex breakers (for the oven, water heater, AC,
and clothes dryer), 12 15-amp breakers and it has 6 empty slots before I
used one. One breaker is a GFI.

Does that imply how much amperage the house is wired for?

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.

It seems to me there is nothing a normal person could want to add that
would require a bigger box. Maybe an electric chair would need more.

??






1) The box needs to be located where it is easily accessible. The
bottom of the box typically 4' off the ground.

2) The word is "current" not "amperage."


If the water heater, clothes dryer and oven are all electric, I'd say
200 amp service would be in order.

If those appliances are gas, she may be able to get by fine with 100 amp
service, depending on the size of the A/C unit.

On 1/20/2018 2:45 PM, micky wrote:
A neighbor asked me about upgrading her breaker box.

I used to know what it is. However now, to see the value on my main
breaker would require climbing on the dryer and using a mirror but I do
know that the box has 4 duplex breakers (for the oven, water heater, AC,
and clothes dryer), 12 15-amp breakers and it has 6 empty slots before I
used one. One breaker is a GFI.

Does that imply how much amperage the house is wired for?

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.

It seems to me there is nothing a normal person could want to add that
would require a bigger box. Maybe an electric chair would need more.

??



What do you mean by "bigger box?

The main breaker will tell you how many amps you can handle.
The number of slots will tell you how "big" the box is.

You can have 100A service, common about 1980, but not have enough slots
to handle the individual circuits you want to have. Given the amount of
electric appliances she has, it may well be 150 or 200A service.

Since she has empty slots, I'm going to assume you mean she wants to
increase the amperage. Why? Does she trip the main breaker cooking in
the oven with the AC on and the water heater working? If so, yes, she
needs an increase. If no, never tripped it, no good reason I can think
of except for that electric chair. Since most electrocutions are held
at midnight, just don't use the oven or dryer during the ceremony.

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 14:45:42 -0500, micky
wrote:

A neighbor asked me about upgrading her breaker box.

I used to know what it is. However now, to see the value on my main
breaker would require climbing on the dryer and using a mirror but I do
know that the box has 4 duplex breakers (for the oven, water heater, AC,
and clothes dryer), 12 15-amp breakers and it has 6 empty slots before I
used one. One breaker is a GFI.

Does that imply how much amperage the house is wired for?

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.

It seems to me there is nothing a normal person could want to add that
would require a bigger box. Maybe an electric chair would need more.

??


Back in the day oid incandescent lighting and electric heat, 200 amp
and larger services were relatively common - and required. Back then,
people used electricity to heat their pools. Refrigeration and AC were
pretty inefficient. Large screen CRT TVs sucked power.

Today, with LED lighting, Natural gas or heat pump heating, high SEER
AC, LED TVs, etc, a 200 amp service is pretty much overkill for the
average home.

If I turned on EVERYTHING in the house at once, I might get 100 amps
of draw, unless I started welding at the same time.

That's running my lathe, clothes dryer, 4 stovetop elements AND the
oven, with the AC running and all the lights on!!! - if I turn on the
toaster, the crockpot, and the power cooker - as well as the microwave
and the central vac, and my skill saw, I MIGHT be able to hit my 125
amp panel limit.

I just upgraded from100 to 125 amps when I replaced the fuse panel
with a breaker panel a few years ago. (house built in 1974)

Now - If I buy an electric car, I MIGHT get myself into a bind if I
want to use the "fast charge" - but my old electric Fiat charged on
120 volts, and was not an issue on a 15 amp fuse - - -

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 14:45:42 -0500, micky
wrote:

A neighbor asked me about upgrading her breaker box.

I used to know what it is. However now, to see the value on my main
breaker would require climbing on the dryer and using a mirror but I do
know that the box has 4 duplex breakers (for the oven, water heater, AC,
and clothes dryer), 12 15-amp breakers and it has 6 empty slots before I
used one. One breaker is a GFI.

Does that imply how much amperage the house is wired for?

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.

It seems to me there is nothing a normal person could want to add that
would require a bigger box. Maybe an electric chair would need more.

Without actually seeing all the details I say she is fine. The "box"
seems big enough since she has extra slots and running a calc based on
1500 sq/ft (not including the basement) water heater, range, dryer at
the standard assigned load and guessing the AC as ~20a FLA, I get this
coming out around 22kva and that is 92a. The minimum size panel is
100. The house could actually be over 3000 sq/ft and still come in
under the wire.

On Saturday, January 20, 2018 at 2:59:19 PM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 01/20/2018 01:45 PM, micky wrote:
A neighbor asked me about upgrading her breaker box.

I used to know what it is. However now, to see the value on my main
breaker would require climbing on the dryer and using a mirror but I do
know that the box has 4 duplex breakers (for the oven, water heater, AC,
and clothes dryer), 12 15-amp breakers and it has 6 empty slots before I
used one. One breaker is a GFI.

Does that imply how much amperage the house is wired for?

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.

It seems to me there is nothing a normal person could want to add that
would require a bigger box. Maybe an electric chair would need more.

??






1) The box needs to be located where it is easily accessible. The
bottom of the box typically 4' off the ground.

Yeah, I don't understand having to climb on a dryer and use
a mirror to get to breakers.

And the first question would be why does she think she needs
an upgrade? Unless the main is being tripped what's the problem?

I have 100. No way to use ac and kuerig same time. I turn off both before using 1100 watt mc.

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 15:32:04 -0800 (PST), Thomas
wrote:

I have 100. No way to use ac and kuerig same time. I turn off both before using 1100 watt mc.


I never popped my 100 amp fuses with the wife making dinner and
running the drier at the same time -Oven on, stovetop on, coffee-maker
or toaster - even with the AC running.

The only thing gas in the house is water heater and furnace.

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Jan 2018 15:41:31 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 14:45:42 -0500, micky
wrote:

A neighbor asked me about upgrading her breaker box.

I used to know what it is. However now, to see the value on my main
breaker would require climbing on the dryer and using a mirror but I do
know that the box has 4 duplex breakers (for the oven, water heater, AC,
and clothes dryer), 12 15-amp breakers and it has 6 empty slots before I
used one. One breaker is a GFI.

Does that imply how much amperage the house is wired for?

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.

It seems to me there is nothing a normal person could want to add that
would require a bigger box. Maybe an electric chair would need more.

??


Back in the day oid incandescent lighting and electric heat, 200 amp
and larger services were relatively common - and required. Back then,
people used electricity to heat their pools. Refrigeration and AC were
pretty inefficient. Large screen CRT TVs sucked power.

No pool, but she probably has LED tvs.

Today, with LED lighting, Natural gas or heat pump heating, high SEER
AC, LED TVs, etc, a 200 amp service is pretty much overkill for the
average home.

Oil heat, but probably new high eff. AC.

But FWIW, only 60 amp service.

If I turned on EVERYTHING in the house at once, I might get 100 amps
of draw, unless I started welding at the same time.

I'm sure she doesn't do welding. I've been looking for an excuse to buy
a welder, but so far, never tripped the main breaker.

That's running my lathe, clothes dryer, 4 stovetop elements AND the
oven, with the AC running and all the lights on!!! - if I turn on the
toaster, the crockpot, and the power cooker - as well as the microwave
and the central vac, and my skill saw, I MIGHT be able to hit my 125
amp panel limit.

I just upgraded from100 to 125 amps when I replaced the fuse panel
with a breaker panel a few years ago. (house built in 1974)

Now - If I buy an electric car, I MIGHT get myself into a bind if I
want to use the "fast charge" - but my old electric Fiat charged on
120 volts, and was not an issue on a 15 amp fuse - - -

I'll tell her to get that.

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Jan 2018 17:24:34 -0500,
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 14:45:42 -0500, micky
wrote:

A neighbor asked me about upgrading her breaker box.

I used to know what it is. However now, to see the value on my main
breaker would require climbing on the dryer and using a mirror but I do
know that the box has 4 duplex breakers (for the oven, water heater, AC,
and clothes dryer), 12 15-amp breakers and it has 6 empty slots before I
used one. One breaker is a GFI.

Does that imply how much amperage the house is wired for?

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.

It seems to me there is nothing a normal person could want to add that
would require a bigger box. Maybe an electric chair would need more.

Without actually seeing all the details I say she is fine. The "box"
seems big enough since she has extra slots and running a calc based on
1500 sq/ft (not including the basement) water heater, range, dryer at
the standard assigned load and guessing the AC as ~20a FLA, I get this
coming out around 22kva and that is 92a. The minimum size panel is
100. The house could actually be over 3000 sq/ft and still come in
under the wire.

I'm sorry I didn't give the 60amp value first. Had to find a mirror.

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Jan 2018 14:33:05 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, January 20, 2018 at 2:59:19 PM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 01/20/2018 01:45 PM, micky wrote:
A neighbor asked me about upgrading her breaker box.

I used to know what it is. However now, to see the value on my main
breaker would require climbing on the dryer and using a mirror but I do
know that the box has 4 duplex breakers (for the oven, water heater, AC,
and clothes dryer), 12 15-amp breakers and it has 6 empty slots before I
used one. One breaker is a GFI.

Does that imply how much amperage the house is wired for?

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.

It seems to me there is nothing a normal person could want to add that
would require a bigger box. Maybe an electric chair would need more.

??






1) The box needs to be located where it is easily accessible. The
bottom of the box typically 4' off the ground.

Yeah, I don't understand having to climb on a dryer and use
a mirror to get to breakers.

The main breaker is not in the middle and doesn't have a lever going up
and down. It's in two of the side slots and when on, faces the wall.

My big mirror is in the car still, but I found a small one. Only 60
amps.

And the first question would be why does she think she needs
an upgrade? Unless the main is being tripped what's the problem?

Good question. It was a passing comment when I was there for something
else. I'll ask.

On 1/20/2018 9:02 PM, micky wrote:


I used to know what it is. However now, to see the value on my main
breaker would require climbing on the dryer and using a mirror but I do
know that the box has 4 duplex breakers (for the oven, water heater, AC,
and clothes dryer), 12 15-amp breakers and it has 6 empty slots before I
used one. One breaker is a GFI.

Does that imply how much amperage the house is wired for?

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.


I'm sorry I didn't give the 60amp value first. Had to find a mirror.


60A is very low for a house built in 1980. Most went to 100A in the 60s
or so. With AC, dryer, water heater and oven, she could be maxing out.

My first house was built in 1948 and had 30A. When I bought it in 1966
I upped to to 100A.

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 21:02:39 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Jan 2018 17:24:34 -0500,
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 14:45:42 -0500, micky
wrote:

A neighbor asked me about upgrading her breaker box.

I used to know what it is. However now, to see the value on my main
breaker would require climbing on the dryer and using a mirror but I do
know that the box has 4 duplex breakers (for the oven, water heater, AC,
and clothes dryer), 12 15-amp breakers and it has 6 empty slots before I
used one. One breaker is a GFI.

Does that imply how much amperage the house is wired for?

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.

It seems to me there is nothing a normal person could want to add that
would require a bigger box. Maybe an electric chair would need more.

Without actually seeing all the details I say she is fine. The "box"
seems big enough since she has extra slots and running a calc based on
1500 sq/ft (not including the basement) water heater, range, dryer at
the standard assigned load and guessing the AC as ~20a FLA, I get this
coming out around 22kva and that is 92a. The minimum size panel is
100. The house could actually be over 3000 sq/ft and still come in
under the wire.

I'm sorry I didn't give the 60amp value first. Had to find a mirror.

Where in the hell would they let her build a house in "79-80" with a
60a service? 100a has been the minimum since the Eisenhower
administration.

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 21:23:07 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/20/2018 9:02 PM, micky wrote:


I used to know what it is. However now, to see the value on my main
breaker would require climbing on the dryer and using a mirror but I do
know that the box has 4 duplex breakers (for the oven, water heater, AC,
and clothes dryer), 12 15-amp breakers and it has 6 empty slots before I
used one. One breaker is a GFI.

Does that imply how much amperage the house is wired for?

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.


I'm sorry I didn't give the 60amp value first. Had to find a mirror.


60A is very low for a house built in 1980. Most went to 100A in the 60s
or so. With AC, dryer, water heater and oven, she could be maxing out.

1951 NEC but who is counting. Even if the AHJ didn't adopt it for 10
years that still gets you into the 60s

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 21:04:42 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Jan 2018 14:33:05 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, January 20, 2018 at 2:59:19 PM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 01/20/2018 01:45 PM, micky wrote:
A neighbor asked me about upgrading her breaker box.

I used to know what it is. However now, to see the value on my main
breaker would require climbing on the dryer and using a mirror but I do
know that the box has 4 duplex breakers (for the oven, water heater, AC,
and clothes dryer), 12 15-amp breakers and it has 6 empty slots before I
used one. One breaker is a GFI.

Does that imply how much amperage the house is wired for?

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.

It seems to me there is nothing a normal person could want to add that
would require a bigger box. Maybe an electric chair would need more.

??






1) The box needs to be located where it is easily accessible. The
bottom of the box typically 4' off the ground.

Yeah, I don't understand having to climb on a dryer and use
a mirror to get to breakers.

The main breaker is not in the middle and doesn't have a lever going up
and down. It's in two of the side slots and when on, faces the wall.

My big mirror is in the car still, but I found a small one. Only 60
amps.

And the first question would be why does she think she needs
an upgrade? Unless the main is being tripped what's the problem?

Good question. It was a passing comment when I was there for something
else. I'll ask.


Will l;ikely need a new overhead service cable as well - Up here in
Ontario you basically can NOT sell a house with a 60 amp service.
Nobody will write new insurance on it - and with no insurance you
can't get a mortgage.

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Jan 2018 21:26:13 -0500,
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 21:02:39 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Jan 2018 17:24:34 -0500,
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 14:45:42 -0500, micky
wrote:

A neighbor asked me about upgrading her breaker box.

I used to know what it is. However now, to see the value on my main
breaker would require climbing on the dryer and using a mirror but I do
know that the box has 4 duplex breakers (for the oven, water heater, AC,
and clothes dryer), 12 15-amp breakers and it has 6 empty slots before I
used one. One breaker is a GFI.

Does that imply how much amperage the house is wired for?

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.

It seems to me there is nothing a normal person could want to add that
would require a bigger box. Maybe an electric chair would need more.

Without actually seeing all the details I say she is fine. The "box"
seems big enough since she has extra slots and running a calc based on
1500 sq/ft (not including the basement) water heater, range, dryer at
the standard assigned load and guessing the AC as ~20a FLA, I get this
coming out around 22kva and that is 92a. The minimum size panel is
100. The house could actually be over 3000 sq/ft and still come in
under the wire.

I'm sorry I didn't give the 60amp value first. Had to find a mirror.

Where in the hell would they let her build a house in "79-80" with a
60a service? 100a has been the minimum since the Eisenhower
administration.

Well, that's what the number was on the bar connecting the two breakers.

Perhaps the rating is twice that, since there are two breakers?

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Jan 2018 22:35:31 -0500, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 21:04:42 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Jan 2018 14:33:05 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, January 20, 2018 at 2:59:19 PM UTC-5, philo wrote:
On 01/20/2018 01:45 PM, micky wrote:
A neighbor asked me about upgrading her breaker box.

I used to know what it is. However now, to see the value on my main
breaker would require climbing on the dryer and using a mirror but I do
know that the box has 4 duplex breakers (for the oven, water heater, AC,
and clothes dryer), 12 15-amp breakers and it has 6 empty slots before I
used one. One breaker is a GFI.

Does that imply how much amperage the house is wired for?

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.

It seems to me there is nothing a normal person could want to add that
would require a bigger box. Maybe an electric chair would need more.

??



1) The box needs to be located where it is easily accessible. The
bottom of the box typically 4' off the ground.

Yeah, I don't understand having to climb on a dryer and use
a mirror to get to breakers.

The main breaker is not in the middle and doesn't have a lever going up
and down. It's in two of the side slots and when on, faces the wall.

My big mirror is in the car still, but I found a small one. Only 60
amps.

And the first question would be why does she think she needs
an upgrade? Unless the main is being tripped what's the problem?

Good question. It was a passing comment when I was there for something
else. I'll ask.


Will l;ikely need a new overhead service cable as well - Up here in
Ontario you basically can NOT sell a house with a 60 amp service.
Nobody will write new insurance on it - and with no insurance you
can't get a mortgage.

This is disappointing. I plan to live in my house until I die, if
possible, but my friend might plan on moving.

I'll see her Thursday night at a meeting and tell her the bad news,
which I guess she already knows.

When I went looking for more info on this, I got two unrelated hits from
Edmonton. The US might be a little more liberal. I've never tripped a
breaker except the GFI breaker for ground fault reasons.

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 23:14:11 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Jan 2018 21:26:13 -0500,
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 21:02:39 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Jan 2018 17:24:34 -0500,
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 14:45:42 -0500, micky
wrote:

A neighbor asked me about upgrading her breaker box.

I used to know what it is. However now, to see the value on my main
breaker would require climbing on the dryer and using a mirror but I do
know that the box has 4 duplex breakers (for the oven, water heater, AC,
and clothes dryer), 12 15-amp breakers and it has 6 empty slots before I
used one. One breaker is a GFI.

Does that imply how much amperage the house is wired for?

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.

It seems to me there is nothing a normal person could want to add that
would require a bigger box. Maybe an electric chair would need more.

Without actually seeing all the details I say she is fine. The "box"
seems big enough since she has extra slots and running a calc based on
1500 sq/ft (not including the basement) water heater, range, dryer at
the standard assigned load and guessing the AC as ~20a FLA, I get this
coming out around 22kva and that is 92a. The minimum size panel is
100. The house could actually be over 3000 sq/ft and still come in
under the wire.

I'm sorry I didn't give the 60amp value first. Had to find a mirror.

Where in the hell would they let her build a house in "79-80" with a
60a service? 100a has been the minimum since the Eisenhower
administration.

Well, that's what the number was on the bar connecting the two breakers.

Perhaps the rating is twice that, since there are two breakers?

Although it is not a standard disconnect size, are you sure that is
not 90? You were looking in a mirror. ;-)
Either that house is older than you think or something else is going
on. To start with I have never seen a 60a service with breakers. They
usually had a split bus panel with fuses. The pull outs were fed
directly from the service for the stove and water heater and they had
another pullout feeding the plug fuses.
It may be time to call an electrician to sort this mess out.
Something is not right. Have you looked at the property appraiser web
site to see when they think it was built?
The first thing I would look at is the size of the service conductors.
If they are 4ga copper (2ga al) it is 100a.

On Saturday, January 20, 2018 at 11:14:15 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Jan 2018 21:26:13 -0500,
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 21:02:39 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Jan 2018 17:24:34 -0500,
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 14:45:42 -0500, micky
wrote:

A neighbor asked me about upgrading her breaker box.

I used to know what it is. However now, to see the value on my main
breaker would require climbing on the dryer and using a mirror but I do
know that the box has 4 duplex breakers (for the oven, water heater, AC,
and clothes dryer), 12 15-amp breakers and it has 6 empty slots before I
used one. One breaker is a GFI.

Does that imply how much amperage the house is wired for?

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.

It seems to me there is nothing a normal person could want to add that
would require a bigger box. Maybe an electric chair would need more.

Without actually seeing all the details I say she is fine. The "box"
seems big enough since she has extra slots and running a calc based on
1500 sq/ft (not including the basement) water heater, range, dryer at
the standard assigned load and guessing the AC as ~20a FLA, I get this
coming out around 22kva and that is 92a. The minimum size panel is
100. The house could actually be over 3000 sq/ft and still come in
under the wire.

I'm sorry I didn't give the 60amp value first. Had to find a mirror.

Where in the hell would they let her build a house in "79-80" with a
60a service? 100a has been the minimum since the Eisenhower
administration.

Well, that's what the number was on the bar connecting the two breakers.

Perhaps the rating is twice that, since there are two breakers?

No.

You sure this isn't a sub-panel?

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 21:28:13 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, January 20, 2018 at 11:14:15 PM UTC-5, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Jan 2018 21:26:13 -0500,
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 21:02:39 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Jan 2018 17:24:34 -0500,
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 14:45:42 -0500, micky
wrote:

A neighbor asked me about upgrading her breaker box.

I used to know what it is. However now, to see the value on my main
breaker would require climbing on the dryer and using a mirror but I do
know that the box has 4 duplex breakers (for the oven, water heater, AC,
and clothes dryer), 12 15-amp breakers and it has 6 empty slots before I
used one. One breaker is a GFI.

Does that imply how much amperage the house is wired for?

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.

It seems to me there is nothing a normal person could want to add that
would require a bigger box. Maybe an electric chair would need more.

Without actually seeing all the details I say she is fine. The "box"
seems big enough since she has extra slots and running a calc based on
1500 sq/ft (not including the basement) water heater, range, dryer at
the standard assigned load and guessing the AC as ~20a FLA, I get this
coming out around 22kva and that is 92a. The minimum size panel is
100. The house could actually be over 3000 sq/ft and still come in
under the wire.

I'm sorry I didn't give the 60amp value first. Had to find a mirror.

Where in the hell would they let her build a house in "79-80" with a
60a service? 100a has been the minimum since the Eisenhower
administration.

Well, that's what the number was on the bar connecting the two breakers.

Perhaps the rating is twice that, since there are two breakers?

No.

You sure this isn't a sub-panel?

I was curious about that myself. They may have a meter main outside or
something. That could be an MLO panel and the 60 could be for a load.
We didn't ask if there was a furnace or toaster wire in an air handler
supplementing a heat pump. If so that would usually be on a 60.
Having talked to Micky before, I am thinking he might need some help
on site.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Jan 2018 00:26:11 -0500,
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 23:14:11 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Jan 2018 21:26:13 -0500,
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 21:02:39 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Jan 2018 17:24:34 -0500,
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 14:45:42 -0500, micky
wrote:

A neighbor asked me about upgrading her breaker box.

I used to know what it is. However now, to see the value on my main
breaker would require climbing on the dryer and using a mirror but I do
know that the box has 4 duplex breakers (for the oven, water heater, AC,
and clothes dryer), 12 15-amp breakers and it has 6 empty slots before I
used one. One breaker is a GFI.

Does that imply how much amperage the house is wired for?

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.

It seems to me there is nothing a normal person could want to add that
would require a bigger box. Maybe an electric chair would need more.

Without actually seeing all the details I say she is fine. The "box"
seems big enough since she has extra slots and running a calc based on
1500 sq/ft (not including the basement) water heater, range, dryer at
the standard assigned load and guessing the AC as ~20a FLA, I get this
coming out around 22kva and that is 92a. The minimum size panel is
100. The house could actually be over 3000 sq/ft and still come in
under the wire.

I'm sorry I didn't give the 60amp value first. Had to find a mirror.

Where in the hell would they let her build a house in "79-80" with a
60a service? 100a has been the minimum since the Eisenhower
administration.

Well, that's what the number was on the bar connecting the two breakers.

Perhaps the rating is twice that, since there are two breakers?

Although it is not a standard disconnect size, are you sure that is
not 90? You were looking in a mirror. ;-)

That did make it difficult. Maybe I'll check again! I could look at it
without a mirror if I turned it off, but that would mess up a bunch of
clocks etc.


Either that house is older than you think

Not a chance. Mine is 1979. My neighbor's was built after mine and
might be 1980

or something else is going
on. To start with I have never seen a 60a service with breakers. They
usually had a split bus panel with fuses. The pull outs were fed
directly from the service for the stove and water heater and they had
another pullout feeding the plug fuses.
It may be time to call an electrician to sort this mess out.
Something is not right. Have you looked at the property appraiser web
site to see when they think it was built?

I've looked at the original deed and the county clerk's property
records.

The first thing I would look at is the size of the service conductors.
If they are 4ga copper (2ga al) it is 100a.

It's not aluminum. I'd alreaedy heard about the problems with aluminum
and I was glad it didn't have that.

I could measure the copper** if I took the cover off the breaker box.
I've done that before.

**Not directly but by making markings on a piece of white cardboard and
holding it up to the wire

BTW, houses in my subdivision sell all the time. I don't believe
they've all gotten increased service. I see other trucks in the area
but never an electrician. I googled for real estate ads and some give a
lot of information but none mention the electrical service (which they
wouldn't if it were below average or even average) I can see who has
bought lately, and if there were a way to do it tacfully, I could ask
them. My next door neighbor bought the house 2 or 3 years ago and I
was down in his basement. I think I would have noticed if the box were
different. Somewhere I have the phone number for my ex-neighbors who
sold it to him. The husband redid the bathroom, including plumbing, and
he showed it to me but never said anything about electrical.

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Jan 2018 21:28:13 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:


Well, that's what the number was on the bar connecting the two breakers.

Perhaps the rating is twice that, since there are two breakers?

No.

You sure this isn't a sub-panel?

Positive.

On 1/20/2018 11:49 PM, micky wrote:

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.


The main breaker is not in the middle and doesn't have a lever going up
and down. It's in two of the side slots and when on, faces the wall.

My big mirror is in the car still, but I found a small one. Only 60
amps.

I'll see her Thursday night at a meeting and tell her the bad news,
which I guess she already knows.

When I went looking for more info on this, I got two unrelated hits from
Edmonton. The US might be a little more liberal. I've never tripped a
breaker except the GFI breaker for ground fault reasons.


I'm curious. Is it the same builder that built your house? It this all
part of the same sub-division? If the same builder he probably used the
same specs as your house. What do you have? It does not seem right of a
1980 house.

On 01/21/2018 01:42 AM, micky wrote:
That did make it difficult. Maybe I'll check again! I could look at it
without a mirror if I turned it off, but that would mess up a bunch of
clocks etc.

Take a picture of it with a cellphone/digital camera. Just shotgun it, sooner or later you'll get a usable pic.

On Saturday, January 20, 2018 at 3:35:37 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/20/2018 2:45 PM, micky wrote:
A neighbor asked me about upgrading her breaker box.

I used to know what it is. However now, to see the value on my main
breaker would require climbing on the dryer and using a mirror but I do
know that the box has 4 duplex breakers (for the oven, water heater, AC,
and clothes dryer), 12 15-amp breakers and it has 6 empty slots before I
used one. One breaker is a GFI.

Does that imply how much amperage the house is wired for?

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.

It seems to me there is nothing a normal person could want to add that
would require a bigger box. Maybe an electric chair would need more.

??



What do you mean by "bigger box?

The main breaker will tell you how many amps you can handle.
The number of slots will tell you how "big" the box is.

You can have 100A service, common about 1980, but not have enough slots
to handle the individual circuits you want to have. Given the amount of
electric appliances she has, it may well be 150 or 200A service.

Since she has empty slots, I'm going to assume you mean she wants to
increase the amperage. Why? Does she trip the main breaker cooking in
the oven with the AC on and the water heater working? If so, yes, she
needs an increase. If no, never tripped it, no good reason I can think
of except for that electric chair. Since most electrocutions are held
at midnight, just don't use the oven or dryer during the ceremony.

I asked that at the beginning, why the interest in the upgrade.
And I agree, it doesn't sound like a panel upgrade alone is
needed, because he says there are empty slots. So it's probably a
service upgrade that he's talking about, unless the service is already
100A or larger and they put a 60A panel in. And if doing a service upgrade,
if the service has to
be upgraded then it might as well be to 200A. One thing everyone agrees on
60A service circa 1980 for a 3 floor, 3 bedroom house sure doesn't sound right,
if it was permitted, done by a pro, etc. I asked if this could be a
subpanel, particularly because he says the main breaker is on the side,
in the middle of the panel. IDK, maybe they make main panels like that,
but I never saw one.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Jan 2018 08:48:16 -0500, Nicéphore Niépce
wrote:

On 01/21/2018 01:42 AM, micky wrote:
That did make it difficult. Maybe I'll check again! I could look at it
without a mirror if I turned it off, but that would mess up a bunch of
clocks etc.

Take a picture of it with a cellphone/digital camera. Just shotgun it, sooner or later you'll get a usable pic.

Great idea. Never would have thought of that. I was thinking of using
two mirrors! or noting which direction the tail of the 6/9 went.

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Jan 2018 08:09:29 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 1/20/2018 11:49 PM, micky wrote:

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.


The main breaker is not in the middle and doesn't have a lever going up
and down. It's in two of the side slots and when on, faces the wall.

My big mirror is in the car still, but I found a small one. Only 60
amps.

I'll see her Thursday night at a meeting and tell her the bad news,
which I guess she already knows.

When I went looking for more info on this, I got two unrelated hits from
Edmonton. The US might be a little more liberal. I've never tripped a
breaker except the GFI breaker for ground fault reasons.


I'm curious. Is it the same builder that built your house? It this all
part of the same sub-division?

Right and right.

If the same builder he probably used the
same specs as your house. What do you have? It does not seem right of a
1980 house.

Does it make any difference that it's a townhouse?

You inspired me to dig out the blueprints, but as I recalled, the ones I
have are detailed but they don't go into the electrical system.

On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 10:16:06 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Jan 2018 08:09:29 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 1/20/2018 11:49 PM, micky wrote:

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.


The main breaker is not in the middle and doesn't have a lever going up
and down. It's in two of the side slots and when on, faces the wall.

My big mirror is in the car still, but I found a small one. Only 60
amps.

I'll see her Thursday night at a meeting and tell her the bad news,
which I guess she already knows.

When I went looking for more info on this, I got two unrelated hits from
Edmonton. The US might be a little more liberal. I've never tripped a
breaker except the GFI breaker for ground fault reasons.


I'm curious. Is it the same builder that built your house? It this all
part of the same sub-division?

Right and right.

If the same builder he probably used the
same specs as your house. What do you have? It does not seem right of a
1980 house.

Does it make any difference that it's a townhouse?

You inspired me to dig out the blueprints, but as I recalled, the ones I
have are detailed but they don't go into the electrical system.

Get a picture of the meter bank. If this is a multifamily I bet there
is a meter main and this is an MLO sub panel that does not have a Main
breaker in it. My wife is building a 4 plex like that right now. What
kind of heat does she have?

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Jan 2018 06:22:32 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, January 20, 2018 at 3:35:37 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/20/2018 2:45 PM, micky wrote:
A neighbor asked me about upgrading her breaker box.

I used to know what it is. However now, to see the value on my main
breaker would require climbing on the dryer and using a mirror but I do
know that the box has 4 duplex breakers (for the oven, water heater, AC,
and clothes dryer), 12 15-amp breakers and it has 6 empty slots before I
used one. One breaker is a GFI.

Does that imply how much amperage the house is wired for?

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.

It seems to me there is nothing a normal person could want to add that
would require a bigger box. Maybe an electric chair would need more.

??



What do you mean by "bigger box?

The main breaker will tell you how many amps you can handle.
The number of slots will tell you how "big" the box is.

You can have 100A service, common about 1980, but not have enough slots
to handle the individual circuits you want to have. Given the amount of
electric appliances she has, it may well be 150 or 200A service.

Since she has empty slots, I'm going to assume you mean she wants to
increase the amperage. Why? Does she trip the main breaker cooking in
the oven with the AC on and the water heater working? If so, yes, she
needs an increase. If no, never tripped it, no good reason I can think
of except for that electric chair. Since most electrocutions are held
at midnight, just don't use the oven or dryer during the ceremony.

I asked that at the beginning, why the interest in the upgrade.
And I agree, it doesn't sound like a panel upgrade alone is
needed, because he says there are empty slots. So it's probably a
service upgrade that he's talking about, unless the service is already
100A or larger and they put a 60A panel in. And if doing a service upgrade,
if the service has to
be upgraded then it might as well be to 200A. One thing everyone agrees on
60A service circa 1980 for a 3 floor, 3 bedroom house sure doesn't sound right,
if it was permitted, done by a pro, etc. I asked if this could be a
subpanel, particularly because he says the main breaker is on the side,
in the middle of the panel. IDK, maybe they make main panels like that,
but I never saw one.

Sure you've seen one. It's just a panel with no vertically-oriented.
double wide slot at the top. It just has two rows of horizontal slots
and they used slots 5 and 6 down from the top, on the right, for the
main breaker. Above that on the left and right are the 4 pairs of
breakers for 220v appliances and below that are the 12 single breakers
for 110 stuff.

It's one of 100 townhouses built on one piece of land over a year or two
starting in 1979.

For a while, I was even in the same social organization as the son of
the banker who financed the project, whose father got him a summer job
working as a laborer on some of the houses. And the electrician lived
in one of the houses for maybe 10 years. You could tell his house
because it has real lights along the sidewalk, and it has a vent to the
outside above the front sliding glass door to vent the range. Everyone
else just has a range hood that merely recirculates the air. After he
moved out of here, I'd see his electrical truck parked outside a
"detached" house about a mile away. And the guy who did the
landscaping and plowed the snow used to live here too.

On Sunday, January 21, 2018 at 10:16:12 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Jan 2018 08:09:29 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 1/20/2018 11:49 PM, micky wrote:

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.


The main breaker is not in the middle and doesn't have a lever going up
and down. It's in two of the side slots and when on, faces the wall.

My big mirror is in the car still, but I found a small one. Only 60
amps.

I'll see her Thursday night at a meeting and tell her the bad news,
which I guess she already knows.

When I went looking for more info on this, I got two unrelated hits from
Edmonton. The US might be a little more liberal. I've never tripped a
breaker except the GFI breaker for ground fault reasons.


I'm curious. Is it the same builder that built your house? It this all
part of the same sub-division?

Right and right.

If the same builder he probably used the
same specs as your house. What do you have? It does not seem right of a
1980 house.

Does it make any difference that it's a townhouse?

Maybe in the mind of whoever did the work, but in the code it's
based on the loads that are there. So a house and townhouse or
condo with the same loads, same square footage, should have the
same min service. Of course local authorities can do what they
please. Slipping the inspector some bills might help in some
cases too. I know of condos here that were built, where instead
of footings for the decks, they threw a shovel full of concrete
in a small hole, for example. That building inspector was last
scene headed for parts unknown. The mayor, the FBI raided his
house and found $50K in his attic.

On Sunday, January 21, 2018 at 10:31:14 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Jan 2018 06:22:32 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, January 20, 2018 at 3:35:37 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/20/2018 2:45 PM, micky wrote:
A neighbor asked me about upgrading her breaker box.

I used to know what it is. However now, to see the value on my main
breaker would require climbing on the dryer and using a mirror but I do
know that the box has 4 duplex breakers (for the oven, water heater, AC,
and clothes dryer), 12 15-amp breakers and it has 6 empty slots before I
used one. One breaker is a GFI.

Does that imply how much amperage the house is wired for?

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.

It seems to me there is nothing a normal person could want to add that
would require a bigger box. Maybe an electric chair would need more.

??



What do you mean by "bigger box?

The main breaker will tell you how many amps you can handle.
The number of slots will tell you how "big" the box is.

You can have 100A service, common about 1980, but not have enough slots
to handle the individual circuits you want to have. Given the amount of
electric appliances she has, it may well be 150 or 200A service.

Since she has empty slots, I'm going to assume you mean she wants to
increase the amperage. Why? Does she trip the main breaker cooking in
the oven with the AC on and the water heater working? If so, yes, she
needs an increase. If no, never tripped it, no good reason I can think
of except for that electric chair. Since most electrocutions are held
at midnight, just don't use the oven or dryer during the ceremony.

I asked that at the beginning, why the interest in the upgrade.
And I agree, it doesn't sound like a panel upgrade alone is
needed, because he says there are empty slots. So it's probably a
service upgrade that he's talking about, unless the service is already
100A or larger and they put a 60A panel in. And if doing a service upgrade,
if the service has to
be upgraded then it might as well be to 200A. One thing everyone agrees on
60A service circa 1980 for a 3 floor, 3 bedroom house sure doesn't sound right,
if it was permitted, done by a pro, etc. I asked if this could be a
subpanel, particularly because he says the main breaker is on the side,
in the middle of the panel. IDK, maybe they make main panels like that,
but I never saw one.

Sure you've seen one. It's just a panel with no vertically-oriented.
double wide slot at the top. It just has two rows of horizontal slots
and they used slots 5 and 6 down from the top, on the right, for the
main breaker.

What I said was I never saw a main panel where they used a breaker
in the middle as the main breaker. You do see that
for sub-panels. Main panels I've seen come with the breaker installed
and I've never seen one in the middle.

On Sunday, January 21, 2018 at 11:01:21 AM UTC-5, BurfordTJustice wrote:
"trader_4" wrote in message
...


As always, you're the only one here in the thread with nothing
to add that has anything to do with home repair. Just ad hominem
juvenile, Trump like attacks on those that do contribute.

How are things at the Russian troll farm today?

On 1/21/2018 10:16 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Jan 2018 08:09:29 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 1/20/2018 11:49 PM, micky wrote:

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.


The main breaker is not in the middle and doesn't have a lever going up
and down. It's in two of the side slots and when on, faces the wall.

My big mirror is in the car still, but I found a small one. Only 60
amps.

I'll see her Thursday night at a meeting and tell her the bad news,
which I guess she already knows.

When I went looking for more info on this, I got two unrelated hits from
Edmonton. The US might be a little more liberal. I've never tripped a
breaker except the GFI breaker for ground fault reasons.


I'm curious. Is it the same builder that built your house? It this all
part of the same sub-division?

Right and right.

If the same builder he probably used the
same specs as your house. What do you have? It does not seem right of a
1980 house.

Does it make any difference that it's a townhouse?

May have back then. I don't know for sure the code in 1980 but today,
it is 100A for a single family residence NEC 230.79(D)

On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 11:56:37 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/21/2018 10:16 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Jan 2018 08:09:29 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 1/20/2018 11:49 PM, micky wrote:

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.


The main breaker is not in the middle and doesn't have a lever going up
and down. It's in two of the side slots and when on, faces the wall.

My big mirror is in the car still, but I found a small one. Only 60
amps.

I'll see her Thursday night at a meeting and tell her the bad news,
which I guess she already knows.

When I went looking for more info on this, I got two unrelated hits from
Edmonton. The US might be a little more liberal. I've never tripped a
breaker except the GFI breaker for ground fault reasons.


I'm curious. Is it the same builder that built your house? It this all
part of the same sub-division?

Right and right.

If the same builder he probably used the
same specs as your house. What do you have? It does not seem right of a
1980 house.

Does it make any difference that it's a townhouse?

May have back then. I don't know for sure the code in 1980 but today,
it is 100A for a single family residence NEC 230.79(D)

Minimum service size has been 100a since 1951. (NEC)
Since Micky has said this is a multifamily, it is pretty likely the
panel he is looking at is a sub and there is a meter bank and a
disconnect somewhere else. I have a plan sitting on my dining room
table for a multifamily under construction that uses a MLO panel in
each unit. I am still wondering if that 60a goes to an air handler. He
has not answered what kind of heat they have.

On 01/20/2018 05:32 PM, Thomas wrote:
I have 100. No way to use ac and kuerig same time. I turn off both before using 1100 watt mc.


It used to be that I couldn't use the microwave in the evening in
December, because Christmas lights were on the same circuit. That
problem is gone now since most of the lights are LED.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Money cannot buy happiness, but it lets you be unhappy in nice places."

On 01/20/2018 08:23 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

[snip]

My first house was built in 1948 and had 30A.Â* When I bought it in 1966
I upped to to 100A.

My house was built in 1969 and has a 100A main breaker (includes
electric dryer and stove). There is a separate 50A breaker for the A/C
(although the new unit should be using no more than half that).

BTW, a friend's house was built before central A/C and has 240V 20A
receptacles in each room (for window A/C). Now, a bedroom can be cooled
with a 120V 5A unit.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Money cannot buy happiness, but it lets you be unhappy in nice places."

On 01/20/2018 01:59 PM, philo wrote:

[snip]

2) The word is "current" not "amperage."

I'd call it "current". "amperage" comes from a measurement unit, and is
not really appropriate here. Some people use those words, like wattage,
voltage, and poundage (but not secondage, hertzage, or faradage). I
seldom hear what "voltage" really is.

[snip]

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us/

"Money cannot buy happiness, but it lets you be unhappy in nice places."

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Jan 2018 12:47:26 -0500,
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 11:56:37 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/21/2018 10:16 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Jan 2018 08:09:29 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 1/20/2018 11:49 PM, micky wrote:

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.


The main breaker is not in the middle and doesn't have a lever going up
and down. It's in two of the side slots and when on, faces the wall.

My big mirror is in the car still, but I found a small one. Only 60
amps.

I'll see her Thursday night at a meeting and tell her the bad news,
which I guess she already knows.

When I went looking for more info on this, I got two unrelated hits from
Edmonton. The US might be a little more liberal. I've never tripped a
breaker except the GFI breaker for ground fault reasons.


I'm curious. Is it the same builder that built your house? It this all
part of the same sub-division?

Right and right.

If the same builder he probably used the
same specs as your house. What do you have? It does not seem right of a
1980 house.

Does it make any difference that it's a townhouse?

May have back then. I don't know for sure the code in 1980 but today,
it is 100A for a single family residence NEC 230.79(D)

Minimum service size has been 100a since 1951. (NEC)
Since Micky has said this is a multifamily, it is pretty likely the

It's a townhouse, but I didn't say it was multifamily. It's not like
NYC where many brownstones were built with a servants' apartment in the
ground floor (and now still have a separate apartment there, though not
for servants), and some have been converted to 2 or 3 apartments above
that. These are all one family, with a meter for each house

panel he is looking at is a sub and there is a meter bank and a
disconnect somewhere else.

The meter is less than 10 feet from the breaker box. Of course the box
is inside in the baseement, and the meter is outside in front of the
first floor, but laterally there is almost no distance.

I have a plan sitting on my dining room
table for a multifamily under construction that uses a MLO panel in
each unit. I am still wondering if that 60a goes to an air handler. He
has not answered what kind of heat they have.

I don't remember seeing that question. It's oil heat.

This url is another one from Canada, but it claims that if the meter
sits on a rectangular metal box, the service is probably 100amps. And
with no box it's 60. The problem with that is that I don't remember ever
seeing one that looks like the 60/no box.
http://zoomjer.com/bacon/bacon-blog/...rical-service/

On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 15:19:33 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Jan 2018 12:47:26 -0500,
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 11:56:37 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/21/2018 10:16 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 21 Jan 2018 08:09:29 -0500, Ed Pawlowski
wrote:

On 1/20/2018 11:49 PM, micky wrote:

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.


The main breaker is not in the middle and doesn't have a lever going up
and down. It's in two of the side slots and when on, faces the wall.

My big mirror is in the car still, but I found a small one. Only 60
amps.

I'll see her Thursday night at a meeting and tell her the bad news,
which I guess she already knows.

When I went looking for more info on this, I got two unrelated hits from
Edmonton. The US might be a little more liberal. I've never tripped a
breaker except the GFI breaker for ground fault reasons.


I'm curious. Is it the same builder that built your house? It this all
part of the same sub-division?

Right and right.

If the same builder he probably used the
same specs as your house. What do you have? It does not seem right of a
1980 house.

Does it make any difference that it's a townhouse?

May have back then. I don't know for sure the code in 1980 but today,
it is 100A for a single family residence NEC 230.79(D)

Minimum service size has been 100a since 1951. (NEC)
Since Micky has said this is a multifamily, it is pretty likely the

It's a townhouse, but I didn't say it was multifamily. It's not like
NYC where many brownstones were built with a servants' apartment in the
ground floor (and now still have a separate apartment there, though not
for servants), and some have been converted to 2 or 3 apartments above
that. These are all one family, with a meter for each house

panel he is looking at is a sub and there is a meter bank and a
disconnect somewhere else.

The meter is less than 10 feet from the breaker box. Of course the box
is inside in the baseement, and the meter is outside in front of the
first floor, but laterally there is almost no distance.

I have a plan sitting on my dining room
table for a multifamily under construction that uses a MLO panel in
each unit. I am still wondering if that 60a goes to an air handler. He
has not answered what kind of heat they have.

I don't remember seeing that question. It's oil heat.

This url is another one from Canada, but it claims that if the meter
sits on a rectangular metal box, the service is probably 100amps. And
with no box it's 60. The problem with that is that I don't remember ever
seeing one that looks like the 60/no box.
http://zoomjer.com/bacon/bacon-blog/...rical-service/
If it is a "straight through " meter it is 60 or less, but a 60 can
also be on a box base - but usually smaller than the one shown.

On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 00:26:11 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 23:14:11 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Jan 2018 21:26:13 -0500,
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 21:02:39 -0500, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 20 Jan 2018 17:24:34 -0500,
wrote:

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 14:45:42 -0500, micky
wrote:

A neighbor asked me about upgrading her breaker box.

I used to know what it is. However now, to see the value on my main
breaker would require climbing on the dryer and using a mirror but I do
know that the box has 4 duplex breakers (for the oven, water heater, AC,
and clothes dryer), 12 15-amp breakers and it has 6 empty slots before I
used one. One breaker is a GFI.

Does that imply how much amperage the house is wired for?

They were built in 1979-80. 3 floors including basement, 3 bedrooms.

It seems to me there is nothing a normal person could want to add that
would require a bigger box. Maybe an electric chair would need more.

Without actually seeing all the details I say she is fine. The "box"
seems big enough since she has extra slots and running a calc based on
1500 sq/ft (not including the basement) water heater, range, dryer at
the standard assigned load and guessing the AC as ~20a FLA, I get this
coming out around 22kva and that is 92a. The minimum size panel is
100. The house could actually be over 3000 sq/ft and still come in
under the wire.

I'm sorry I didn't give the 60amp value first. Had to find a mirror.

Where in the hell would they let her build a house in "79-80" with a
60a service? 100a has been the minimum since the Eisenhower
administration.

Well, that's what the number was on the bar connecting the two breakers.

Perhaps the rating is twice that, since there are two breakers?

Although it is not a standard disconnect size, are you sure that is
not 90? You were looking in a mirror. ;-)
Either that house is older than you think or something else is going
on. To start with I have never seen a 60a service with breakers. They
usually had a split bus panel with fuses. The pull outs were fed
directly from the service for the stove and water heater and they had
another pullout feeding the plug fuses.
It may be time to call an electrician to sort this mess out.
Something is not right. Have you looked at the property appraiser web
site to see when they think it was built?
The first thing I would look at is the size of the service conductors.
If they are 4ga copper (2ga al) it is 100a.
If it's 4 ga copper it will SUPPORT a 100 amp panel. Could still
have a 60 amp main installed.

Square D STILL makes a 60 amp distribution panel - Model
#CQO116M100C60

http://www.gimme-shelter.com/wp-cont...n-Edmonton.jpg
shows a 60 amp FPE breaker panel from years gone by.
The same panel was available with 60 and 100 amp - as well, I believe
, as a 75 amp.