Furnace efficiency
 

Hi. Getting bids for a new gas furnace in the house (don't need AC).
We got a couple bids, and they all gave them for the 80% efficient
furnaces, not the 90%+ efficient ones. They said that we wouldn't
recoup the cost of the more efficient one through utility savings over
the lifetime of the unit, and that the 80% efficient one has very few
moving parts, and thus has less need for repair and maintenance, whereas
the high efficiency ones (some claim 97%) are far more complicated, and
thus more susceptible to breakages/misalignments/etc. Furnace brands
were Bryant and Trane.

Can anybody speak to any of these issues, or share about their decision
in a similar situation? Also, the local gas company offers a $200
rebate and a $350 tax credit to get a 90% efficient unit.

Thanks,
h

Furnace efficiency
 

Halvey wrote:
Hi. Getting bids for a new gas furnace in the house (don't need AC).
We got a couple bids, and they all gave them for the 80% efficient
furnaces, not the 90%+ efficient ones. They said that we wouldn't
recoup the cost of the more efficient one through utility savings
over the lifetime of the unit, and that the 80% efficient one has
very few moving parts, and thus has less need for repair and
maintenance, whereas the high efficiency ones (some claim 97%) are
far more complicated, and thus more susceptible to
breakages/misalignments/etc. Furnace brands were Bryant and Trane.

Can anybody speak to any of these issues, or share about their
decision in a similar situation? Also, the local gas company offers
a $200 rebate and a $350 tax credit to get a 90% efficient unit.

Thanks,
h


I would go for the 95% one. They are solid engineering now and I
believe have the lowest lifetime cost.

You did not say where you are, but have you considered A/C at the same
time?

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Furnace efficiency
 

Willamette Valley, Oregon. AC is not an issue, *very* rare around here.
Our days peak at about 90 degrees F, with an occasional day (1 or 2
per summer) of ~100 degrees F. Low humidity. It cools down to about
55deg at night, and the house stays cool during the day. So, no, AC not
needed.

Joseph Meehan wrote:
Halvey wrote:

Hi. Getting bids for a new gas furnace in the house (don't need AC).
We got a couple bids, and they all gave them for the 80% efficient
furnaces, not the 90%+ efficient ones. They said that we wouldn't
recoup the cost of the more efficient one through utility savings
over the lifetime of the unit, and that the 80% efficient one has
very few moving parts, and thus has less need for repair and
maintenance, whereas the high efficiency ones (some claim 97%) are
far more complicated, and thus more susceptible to
breakages/misalignments/etc. Furnace brands were Bryant and Trane.

Can anybody speak to any of these issues, or share about their
decision in a similar situation? Also, the local gas company offers
a $200 rebate and a $350 tax credit to get a 90% efficient unit.

Thanks,
h



I would go for the 95% one. They are solid engineering now and I
believe have the lowest lifetime cost.

You did not say where you are, but have you considered A/C at the same
time?

Furnace efficiency
 

"Halvey" wrote in message
...
Hi. Getting bids for a new gas furnace in the house (don't need AC).
We got a couple bids, and they all gave them for the 80% efficient
furnaces, not the 90%+ efficient ones. They said that we wouldn't
recoup the cost of the more efficient one through utility savings over
the lifetime of the unit, and that the 80% efficient one has very few
moving parts, and thus has less need for repair and maintenance, whereas
the high efficiency ones (some claim 97%) are far more complicated, and
thus more susceptible to breakages/misalignments/etc. Furnace brands
were Bryant and Trane.

Can anybody speak to any of these issues, or share about their decision
in a similar situation? Also, the local gas company offers a $200
rebate and a $350 tax credit to get a 90% efficient unit.

Thanks,
h


This is Turtle.

If you live in Oregon the 90%+ AFUE will pay for it'self if the installer don't
kill you on the installation cost.

If you live in the Southern states where you don't use much heat. The 90%+ AFUE
will usely not pay for it'self.

TURTLE


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.714 / Virus Database: 470 - Release Date: 7/2/2004

Furnace efficiency
 

90+ will pay back how quickly depends on what you pay, what are your
costs to heat.
The 96.7 % Carrier -Bryant is limited to one 38000 btu model of their
line up the smallest one of course, kind of a bait BS deal . The
higher btu models are apx 94.5% There is a formula I forgot it , but
the savings of a 82 vs 94.5 are greater than 12.5% , more like 14% . If
you have a significant heating season go for the highest % efficiency
and get the 10yr warranty, as gas goes up your payback time will go
down. The trend is up. The VS DC motors will give additional
electric savings you should consider, yes when they break they cost more
to fix, so get the 10 yr warranty . Also VS DC can give better comfort
by running on a lower speed continuosly and with AC can run a
dehumidistat with aproximatly double the moisture removal. Get a load
calc done first , you may be oversized.

Furnace efficiency
 

The 90+% efficient furnaces are condensing units as noted in another post.
Which means a pump and a way to get rid of the resulting water. However,
another big difference is that the 90+% combustion air comes from the
outside and then is subsequently discharged to the outside, both through 4
in. PVC piping. Built into the cost savings is the cost of using air
that you have already paid to heat (from within the house) for combustion
purposes (80% unit)? More uneven heat, more drafts as the air being sent up
the chimney has to be replaced by outside air. You could do the arithmetic
relative to the cost and considering the escalating cost of gas your payback
time frame may be shorter than you think. Check into your Utility company,
they often offer significant rebates for the more efficient furnaces with
the variable speed motors. I got a $450 rebate which was almost half the
cost difference between the two furnaces--and then I would estimate that I
saved approx $150 this winter in gas costs.
MLD
"Halvey" wrote in message
...
Hi. Getting bids for a new gas furnace in the house (don't need AC).
We got a couple bids, and they all gave them for the 80% efficient
furnaces, not the 90%+ efficient ones. They said that we wouldn't
recoup the cost of the more efficient one through utility savings over
the lifetime of the unit, and that the 80% efficient one has very few
moving parts, and thus has less need for repair and maintenance, whereas
the high efficiency ones (some claim 97%) are far more complicated, and
thus more susceptible to breakages/misalignments/etc. Furnace brands
were Bryant and Trane.

Can anybody speak to any of these issues, or share about their decision
in a similar situation? Also, the local gas company offers a $200
rebate and a $350 tax credit to get a 90% efficient unit.

Thanks,
h

Furnace efficiency
 

Four inch? Huh? i've seen two inch and three inch....

But it does need a drain.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"MLD" wrote in message
...
The 90+% efficient furnaces are condensing units as noted in another post.
Which means a pump and a way to get rid of the resulting water. However,
another big difference is that the 90+% combustion air comes from the
outside and then is subsequently discharged to the outside, both through 4
in. PVC piping. Built into the cost savings is the cost of using air
that you have already paid to heat (from within the house) for combustion
purposes (80% unit)? More uneven heat, more drafts as the air being sent up
the chimney has to be replaced by outside air. You could do the arithmetic
relative to the cost and considering the escalating cost of gas your payback
time frame may be shorter than you think. Check into your Utility company,
they often offer significant rebates for the more efficient furnaces with
the variable speed motors. I got a $450 rebate which was almost half the
cost difference between the two furnaces--and then I would estimate that I
saved approx $150 this winter in gas costs.
MLD
"Halvey" wrote in message
...
Hi. Getting bids for a new gas furnace in the house (don't need AC).
We got a couple bids, and they all gave them for the 80% efficient
furnaces, not the 90%+ efficient ones. They said that we wouldn't
recoup the cost of the more efficient one through utility savings over
the lifetime of the unit, and that the 80% efficient one has very few
moving parts, and thus has less need for repair and maintenance, whereas
the high efficiency ones (some claim 97%) are far more complicated, and
thus more susceptible to breakages/misalignments/etc. Furnace brands
were Bryant and Trane.

Can anybody speak to any of these issues, or share about their decision
in a similar situation? Also, the local gas company offers a $200
rebate and a $350 tax credit to get a 90% efficient unit.

Thanks,
h

Furnace efficiency
 

"Halvey" wrote in message
...
Hi. Getting bids for a new gas furnace in the house (don't need AC).
We got a couple bids, and they all gave them for the 80% efficient
furnaces, not the 90%+ efficient ones. They said that we wouldn't
recoup the cost of the more efficient one through utility savings over
the lifetime of the unit, and that the 80% efficient one has very few
moving parts, and thus has less need for repair and maintenance, whereas
the high efficiency ones (some claim 97%) are far more complicated, and
thus more susceptible to breakages/misalignments/etc. Furnace brands
were Bryant and Trane.

Can anybody speak to any of these issues, or share about their decision
in a similar situation? Also, the local gas company offers a $200
rebate and a $350 tax credit to get a 90% efficient unit.

Thanks,
h



I no longer even install 80% units. The 90%+ are much more reliable than the
units of only 4 years ago, and installed correctly, they will last as long
as any.
If the installing company isnt wanting to sell you one, that means they are
not familiar with them, and dont realize that they are doing you no favors
with the 80%.

If you dont need AC, you must be in a more northern clime, where you WILL be
using your furnace more. The 90% unit can indeed pay for itself...

Furnace efficiency
 

I no longer even install 80% units. The 90%+ are much more reliable than the
units of only 4 years ago, and installed correctly, they will last as long
as any.
If the installing company isnt wanting to sell you one, that means they are
not familiar with them, and dont realize that they are doing you no favors
with the 80%.

If you dont need AC, you must be in a more northern clime, where you WILL be
using your furnace more. The 90% unit can indeed pay for itself...

I have been installing Carrier High Efficiency furnaces for about 6
years now, and i keep going back to previouse clients, not to repair
or replace, but to ask about the savings, and keeping a mental note
for myself for future customers. And the response is overwhelming,
THEY SAVE MONEY, BIG TIME. As for the company that won't get into
90%+, he's right, they probly don't like the extra work involved in
running new vent, fixing HWT Venting, Running drain lines and setting
up the control board to work properly with existing equipment, or even
running new stat wire and T-stat to properly control the new
equipment, so they stick to what is EASY. Sad , these new furnaces
are awsome. But do get the 10 year warrenty as there are some small
and expensive parts that like anything else out there, can go bad. I
just bought a house, and one of the selling features was that it had
new furnace, A/C , and HWT.
The first thing i did when i moved in, was throw out the 2 year old
lenox 80%, and drop in a Carrier MVP High efficiency Furnace, It is
1/2 as loud, 14%+- more efficient, and as a bonus Carrier/Bryant carry
a nice warranty as well as parts being easy and cheap to find, unlike
Lenox who have a tendency to make their own parts, and are very
difficult to work on.
Hope this helps....