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Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

I have never done it, but it's generally cheaper to buy the tools and do it
yourself than to pay someone else. Plus you generally get better parts.

I've never done a clutch.
This is a Toyota 4Runner 1998 2WD with the W59 5-speed.

Anyone have any idea what I'll need besides a transmission lift?

Have you done a clutch?
How hard is it?

If you ask what work I've done, I've done cooling system overhauls, and
alternator replacements and the like when needed.
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Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manualtransmission?

On 9/19/17 7:30 PM, Chaya Eve wrote:
How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

I have never done it, but it's generally cheaper to buy the tools and do it
yourself than to pay someone else. Plus you generally get better parts.

I've never done a clutch.
This is a Toyota 4Runner 1998 2WD with the W59 5-speed.


Cut some.
Look on Youtube. There are usually some videos showing stuff like
clutch
replacement.
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Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 19:44:57 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

This is a Toyota 4Runner 1998 2WD with the W59 5-speed.


Cut some.
Look on Youtube. There are usually some videos showing stuff like
clutch
replacement.


Youtube is pretty Spartan when it comes to things that most people don't
do. You'll NEVER find a DIY for your own vehicle, for example. Even if it's
as common as a Toyota 4Runner.

Search term: "diy clutch replacement w59 transmission" at Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...tr ansmission

The closest is the pickup truck DIY.
Clutch replacement Toyota Tacoma Manual transmisson removal 1997
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-sscHblanc

There are ZERO 3rd-generation Toyota 4Runner clutch replacement DIYs on
Youtube.

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Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 8:57:25 PM UTC-4, Chaya Eve wrote:
On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 19:44:57 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

This is a Toyota 4Runner 1998 2WD with the W59 5-speed.


Cut some.
Look on Youtube. There are usually some videos showing stuff like
clutch
replacement.


Youtube is pretty Spartan when it comes to things that most people don't
do. You'll NEVER find a DIY for your own vehicle, for example. Even if it's
as common as a Toyota 4Runner.


Like Dean, I regularly find lots of repair videos on Youtube for my BMW X5
covering all kinds of repair jobs, from CV Axles to taking the
door panels off. They have sure helped me enormously. Plenty of
them there for other models too. Have you tried looking for
Toyota forums? The BMW forums have threads were people have done
particular repairs and sometimes they even include pics documenting
the whole process. If you're planning on doing your own work and
keeping the vehicle, a Bentley manual or similar is a wise investment
too.

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Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manualtransmission?

On 09/19/2017 06:30 PM, Chaya Eve wrote:
How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

I have never done it, but it's generally cheaper to buy the tools and do it
yourself than to pay someone else. Plus you generally get better parts.

I've never done a clutch.
This is a Toyota 4Runner 1998 2WD with the W59 5-speed.

Anyone have any idea what I'll need besides a transmission lift?

Have you done a clutch?
How hard is it?


I've never done a 4runner but it's not difficult in a F150. Disconnect
the shift linkage and speedometer drive if it has one. Support the
engine under the crankcase. Drop the drive shaft. Figure out what you
need to do about the clutch/throwout bearing assembly. Remove a cross
member as needed. Support the transmission on the jack, remove the
bolts, and drop it out of the way. Figure out what you need to do about
the bellhousing if anything. Remove the pressure plate bolts. You'll
want to do that gradually and sequentially. You probably need to find a
way to rotate the engine.

At that point, examine the clutch, pressure plate, throwout bearing, the
pilot bushing, and the face of the flywheel for any problems. You'll
need to check pricing but on a Ford the pressure plate assembly isn't
that expensive so you might want to replace it while you're at it.

https://www.amazon.com/ACT-Clutch-Al.../dp/B000JO5K84

You'll need one of these and should be able to find it locally. It keeps
the clutch plate in alignment while you reinstall the pressure plate. A
torque wrench would be real good to torque the pressure plate bolts.
After you get back to the point where you removed the transmission,
wheel it back in place and bolt it down. Theoretically the shaft just
slides into the clutch splines like butter. In practice it sometimes
requires jiggling and foul language. The jack makes it a lot easier.
I've replace transmissions without one but eventually I saw the light
and rented one when need be.

Put all the rest of the stuff back where you found it and you're good to go.

Pitfalls: Older truck in the rust belt, removing the universal cap
screws and the cross member bolts can be a challenge. The rest usually
isn't too bad. Check to see you have all the wrenches you'll need. The
cross member bolts on the F150 are large, can't remember if they're in
the usual wrench set range. Make sure nothing is connected to the tranny
like a neutral switch, or you'll get it half way down and see something
stretched out getting ready to snap.

Many times a particular make, model, and year will have two variants on
the pressure plate and clutch. If so, invariably you'll but the wrong
set. Have alternate transportation to go back and exchange them for the
other size.

Sorry I can't be specific for a 4Runner but that's the generic drill for
most vehicles.


You'll need


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Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 00:30:51 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
wrote:

How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

I have never done it, but it's generally cheaper to buy the tools and do it
yourself than to pay someone else. Plus you generally get better parts.

I've never done a clutch.
This is a Toyota 4Runner 1998 2WD with the W59 5-speed.

Anyone have any idea what I'll need besides a transmission lift?

Have you done a clutch?
How hard is it?

If you ask what work I've done, I've done cooling system overhauls, and
alternator replacements and the like when needed.

I've done hundreds of clutches. Being a RWD vehicle it is a lot
easier than a FWD or AWD or 4WD.
You will need a set of good metric sockets and wrenches and
preferanly a hoist. Changing tansmissions on your back under a vehicle
is a PAIN. You will also need a pilot alignment tool - and if you
haven't done much of this kind of work a package of BandAids wouldn't
hurt,

As for quality of parts??? You only get what you pay for and the OEM
clutch on a Toyota is about as good as it gets, for general purpose
use. If you go for the cheapest job, you could end up with junk
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Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 00:57:20 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
wrote:

On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 19:44:57 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

This is a Toyota 4Runner 1998 2WD with the W59 5-speed.


Cut some.
Look on Youtube. There are usually some videos showing stuff like
clutch
replacement.


Youtube is pretty Spartan when it comes to things that most people don't
do. You'll NEVER find a DIY for your own vehicle, for example. Even if it's
as common as a Toyota 4Runner.

Search term: "diy clutch replacement w59 transmission" at Youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...tr ansmission

The closest is the pickup truck DIY.
Clutch replacement Toyota Tacoma Manual transmisson removal 1997
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-sscHblanc

There are ZERO 3rd-generation Toyota 4Runner clutch replacement DIYs on
Youtube.

Because you REALLY need to abuse them to need to replace one.
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Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 18:48:13 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Like Dean, I regularly find lots of repair videos on Youtube for my BMW X5
covering all kinds of repair jobs, from CV Axles to taking the
door panels off. They have sure helped me enormously. Plenty of
them there for other models too. Have you tried looking for
Toyota forums? The BMW forums have threads were people have done
particular repairs and sometimes they even include pics documenting
the whole process. If you're planning on doing your own work and
keeping the vehicle, a Bentley manual or similar is a wise investment
too.


You have a Bimmer, where the people (e.g., on bimmerfest.com/forums) aren't
usually dumb idiotic kids but the 4Runner forum is filled with high school
morons.

In fact, the 4Runner forums are filled to the brim with children who can't
keep on topic to save their lives. It's disgusting how childish they are.

The minute you ask them to measure something they go off the charts, saying
that you should go to the dealer.

It's the only forum that ever advises always going to the dealer for
example, since they can't comprehend the concept of sourcing better parts
of better materials after measuring sizes.

I don't think any of the kids on the 4Runner forum even own a mic!
(toyota-4runner.org)

The Tundra forum, for some reason, contains adults though.
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Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 22:42:48 -0400, wrote:

There are ZERO 3rd-generation Toyota 4Runner clutch replacement DIYs on
Youtube.

Because you REALLY need to abuse them to need to replace one.


I know the clutch was replaced only once on this 4Runner which has about
150K miles I think (I have to check).

Any idea of how long the clutch lasts?

I'm going to check the slave cylinder and master cylinder for leaks after
checking on the youtube videos that were suggested.

I already replaced the patented and overly complex torsion spring assembly
on the clutch pedal return mechanism, so it's not that.

The new Red Line MT-90 oil yesterday seems to have made a difference in
allowing it to shift when it couldn't get into gear when cold. I already
replaced the two bushings at the bottom of the shift lever (which were fine
but they're known to go bad so I replaced them anyway).

Is there a way to remove a view plate to VIEW the clutch plate visually?
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Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 22:41:17 -0400, wrote:

I've done hundreds of clutches. Being a RWD vehicle it is a lot
easier than a FWD or AWD or 4WD.


This is good to know that the RWD (2wd) is easier than the rest, which has
been my experience for most things, if not only because there is fewer
stuff but the same amount of room, so more room in essence.

You will need a set of good metric sockets and wrenches and
preferanly a hoist. Changing tansmissions on your back under a vehicle
is a PAIN.


I have 6-ton jack stands which give me a decent amount of room, but no
hoist. I don't have a transmission jack so I would expect to need one.
I have a bunch of bottle jacks and of course a few normal floor jacks. I
should have most if not all the wrenches needed but you never know when
there is a hard-to-see bolt - but I have extensions and u-joints galore.

You will also need a pilot alignment tool - and if you
haven't done much of this kind of work a package of BandAids wouldn't
hurt,


Good to know on the alignment bar.


As for quality of parts??? You only get what you pay for and the OEM
clutch on a Toyota is about as good as it gets, for general purpose
use. If you go for the cheapest job, you could end up with junk


I would get decent parts, just as I put in Red Line MT-90 yesterday. I
could have gone cheaper but it's supposed to be the best so that's what I
put in there. It made a difference on the ability of cold shifting into
gear but the clutch pedal feel is still horrid.


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Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 10:55:29 PM UTC-4, Chaya Eve wrote:
On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 18:48:13 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Like Dean, I regularly find lots of repair videos on Youtube for my BMW X5
covering all kinds of repair jobs, from CV Axles to taking the
door panels off. They have sure helped me enormously. Plenty of
them there for other models too. Have you tried looking for
Toyota forums? The BMW forums have threads were people have done
particular repairs and sometimes they even include pics documenting
the whole process. If you're planning on doing your own work and
keeping the vehicle, a Bentley manual or similar is a wise investment
too.


You have a Bimmer, where the people (e.g., on bimmerfest.com/forums) aren't
usually dumb idiotic kids but the 4Runner forum is filled with high school
morons.

In fact, the 4Runner forums are filled to the brim with children who can't
keep on topic to save their lives. It's disgusting how childish they are.

The minute you ask them to measure something they go off the charts, saying
that you should go to the dealer.

It's the only forum that ever advises always going to the dealer for
example, since they can't comprehend the concept of sourcing better parts
of better materials after measuring sizes.


I know what you're talking about, but believe me, there is plenty
of stupidity and blind allegiance on the BMW forums too. I saw
a recent thread where someone was trying to figure out the diameters
of the various vacuum hoses so that they can be obtained locally
at a parts store or sourced online. He quickly got responses like
if you can't afford a vacuum hose, you shouldn't be driving a BMW.
They didn't much like me over there, because when there is some
obvious problems that shouldn't exist in a BMW, I point it out.
Like having window regulators that are crap. I've had three of
them fail, one went while the car was sitting in the driveway,
sending the glass crashing down, breaking into pieces. And others
have had similar experiences with those, yet the BMW diehards
salute the BMW flag and make excuses. "It's a performance car"!
ROFL.

There probably are more people there though that even if they
are dummies, they take a lot of interest in screwing around
with their toy, so they make more videos, posts, etc.

Another example of a dummy, on that forum some guy posted pics
of how to change an alternator. Now mind you, the alternator
on the X5 is like most today, it's fairly well buried, lots of
stuff near it, DC cable connected down under, where you can't
see it, etc. So, he tells people he didn't bother to first
disconnect the battery. He had a pic of the live cable disconnected
from the alternator and hanging by a string from the hood.
I couldn't imagine taking a socket wrench down under there
metal all around, to take the nut off, with it live.
I pointed out how dangerous and dumb that is and immediately
got arguments like, "but even if it does hit something, it will
just spark a bit....." I'll do some repairs, like maybe changing
an electrical component with a simple connector, without disconnecting
the battery as the manual tells you. But the alternator cable?


I don't think any of the kids on the 4Runner forum even own a mic!
(toyota-4runner.org)

The Tundra forum, for some reason, contains adults though.


Yes, I think that's a lot of the problem. Most of them are 20 and
think they know it all. They are probably a lot more likely to be
posting than 50 year olds.
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Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

On Tuesday, September 19, 2017 at 11:04:11 PM UTC-4, Chaya Eve wrote:
On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 22:41:17 -0400, wrote:

I've done hundreds of clutches. Being a RWD vehicle it is a lot
easier than a FWD or AWD or 4WD.


This is good to know that the RWD (2wd) is easier than the rest, which has
been my experience for most things, if not only because there is fewer
stuff but the same amount of room, so more room in essence.

You will need a set of good metric sockets and wrenches and
preferanly a hoist. Changing tansmissions on your back under a vehicle
is a PAIN.


I have 6-ton jack stands which give me a decent amount of room, but no
hoist. I don't have a transmission jack so I would expect to need one.


Advance Auto has a tool loan program. You pay for the cost of the tool
and I think you can keep it 30 day, anyway it's a long period. When
you bring it back, you get the full amount back, it's free. If they
have the tool you need, it's a great thing for those ones that you
only need once in a blue moon. Harbor Freight can be good too for that
kind of thing. Auto Zone might have a loaner thing too, I don't
remember.
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Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 02:59:28 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
wrote:

On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 22:42:48 -0400, wrote:

There are ZERO 3rd-generation Toyota 4Runner clutch replacement DIYs on
Youtube.

Because you REALLY need to abuse them to need to replace one.


I know the clutch was replaced only once on this 4Runner which has about
150K miles I think (I have to check).

Any idea of how long the clutch lasts?


My Ford Ranger had 307,000km when I bought it with a bad release cyl
(inside bell housing). The clutch was only about 1/4 worn, but with
all the labour already charged, the new clutch went in at the same
tome. My old Tercel had it changed at almost 500,000km just because I
had the engine out - it was only about half worn but I couldn't
justify not changing it while it was apart.

I'm going to check the slave cylinder and master cylinder for leaks after
checking on the youtube videos that were suggested.

I already replaced the patented and overly complex torsion spring assembly
on the clutch pedal return mechanism, so it's not that.

The new Red Line MT-90 oil yesterday seems to have made a difference in
allowing it to shift when it couldn't get into gear when cold. I already
replaced the two bushings at the bottom of the shift lever (which were fine
but they're known to go bad so I replaced them anyway).

Is there a way to remove a view plate to VIEW the clutch plate visually?


Nope

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Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 03:04:07 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
wrote:

On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 22:41:17 -0400, wrote:

I've done hundreds of clutches. Being a RWD vehicle it is a lot
easier than a FWD or AWD or 4WD.


This is good to know that the RWD (2wd) is easier than the rest, which has
been my experience for most things, if not only because there is fewer
stuff but the same amount of room, so more room in essence.

You will need a set of good metric sockets and wrenches and
preferanly a hoist. Changing tansmissions on your back under a vehicle
is a PAIN.


I have 6-ton jack stands which give me a decent amount of room, but no
hoist. I don't have a transmission jack so I would expect to need one.
I have a bunch of bottle jacks and of course a few normal floor jacks. I
should have most if not all the wrenches needed but you never know when
there is a hard-to-see bolt - but I have extensions and u-joints galore.

You will also need a pilot alignment tool - and if you
haven't done much of this kind of work a package of BandAids wouldn't
hurt,


Good to know on the alignment bar.


As for quality of parts??? You only get what you pay for and the OEM
clutch on a Toyota is about as good as it gets, for general purpose
use. If you go for the cheapest job, you could end up with junk


I would get decent parts, just as I put in Red Line MT-90 yesterday. I
could have gone cheaper but it's supposed to be the best so that's what I
put in there. It made a difference on the ability of cold shifting into
gear but the clutch pedal feel is still horrid.


I once changed a cast iron Powerglide working on my back under the
car. Darn near killed me.
If you don't have a hoist, at least put the truck up on ramps - I'd
put it up on both ends - front on ramps and rear on stands. Get a
transmission saddle for the floor jack and chain the trans on firmly.
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Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

In rec.autos.tech, on Wed, 20 Sep 2017 00:57:20 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
wrote:

On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 19:44:57 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

This is a Toyota 4Runner 1998 2WD with the W59 5-speed.


Cut some.
Look on Youtube. There are usually some videos showing stuff like
clutch
replacement.


Youtube is pretty Spartan when it comes to things that most people don't
do. You'll NEVER find a DIY for your own vehicle, for example. Even if it's
as common as a Toyota 4Runner.

Search term: "diy clutch replacement w59 transmission" at Youtube:


I wouldn't include diy. All the videos are for diy. Even if they are
intended for auto mechanics, how different would they be from what's
intened for you?

I wouldn't include W59. Or at least if I didn't find what I wanted I'd
take it out and put in 4runner. I don't know if a 4runner has more
possible manual transmissions, but a good part of the instructions will
be the same even if it does. I don't known if other Toyota cars use the
same transmission, but they might, so I'd also try it with Toyota
instead of 4runner. I might well specify the year -- youtube is good
about also returning hits with nearby years, and iirc will also return a
video with the title 2008 - 2012 even if you only specify 2010.

I don't think I'd even put in replacement. If it's a video about
clutches, it's going to be either replacement or inspection or ...?

If you get too many hits, then you can put in more terms (but that
doesn't seem to be your problem).

Just last night I was searching youtube and I learned a lot from videos
that didn't really meet my search terms. For one thing, one that
doesn't fit will be followed by something related, maybe something that
fits better. In theory you would have found it in the search list, but
my experience is that it often works better by letting the sequence find
it for you, (until of course the sequence goes way off topic). That
doesn't mean it won't get totally misled by terms like diy.

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...tr ansmission

The closest is the pickup truck DIY.
Clutch replacement Toyota Tacoma Manual transmisson removal 1997
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k-sscHblanc

There are ZERO 3rd-generation Toyota 4Runner clutch replacement DIYs on
Youtube.




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In rec.autos.tech, on Wed, 20 Sep 2017 07:42:28 -0400, micky
wrote:


I wouldn't include W59. Or at least if I didn't find what I wanted I'd
take it out and put in 4runner. I don't know if a 4runner has more
possible manual transmissions, but a good part of the instructions will
be the same even if it does. I don't known if other Toyota cars use the
same transmission, but they might, so I'd also try it with Toyota
instead of 4runner. I might well specify the year -- youtube is good
about also returning hits with nearby years, and iirc will also return a
video with the title 2008 - 2012 even if you only specify 2010.


This might be more true because the poster included tags for each year.
And most of them probably do, so whether youtube makes it easy to find
or the posters do, it's still good for you.

I don't know how many tags a poster is allowed to list.
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On 20/09/2017 2:10 PM, wrote:
On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 03:04:07 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
wrote:

On Tue, 19 Sep 2017 22:41:17 -0400, wrote:

I've done hundreds of clutches. Being a RWD vehicle it is a lot
easier than a FWD or AWD or 4WD.


This is good to know that the RWD (2wd) is easier than the rest, which has
been my experience for most things, if not only because there is fewer
stuff but the same amount of room, so more room in essence.

You will need a set of good metric sockets and wrenches and
preferanly a hoist. Changing tansmissions on your back under a vehicle
is a PAIN.


I have 6-ton jack stands which give me a decent amount of room, but no
hoist. I don't have a transmission jack so I would expect to need one.
I have a bunch of bottle jacks and of course a few normal floor jacks. I
should have most if not all the wrenches needed but you never know when
there is a hard-to-see bolt - but I have extensions and u-joints galore.

You will also need a pilot alignment tool - and if you
haven't done much of this kind of work a package of BandAids wouldn't
hurt,


Good to know on the alignment bar.


As for quality of parts??? You only get what you pay for and the OEM
clutch on a Toyota is about as good as it gets, for general purpose
use. If you go for the cheapest job, you could end up with junk


I would get decent parts, just as I put in Red Line MT-90 yesterday. I
could have gone cheaper but it's supposed to be the best so that's what I
put in there. It made a difference on the ability of cold shifting into
gear but the clutch pedal feel is still horrid.


I once changed a cast iron Powerglide working on my back under the
car. Darn near killed me.


Did the same with a bus gearbox. The first one I did had an alloy case
gearbox, very light, and it was a breeze to handle. The next one in the
same type of bus had the same gearbox but with a cast iron case. Now
that brute was damn heavy to handle under a bus. At 65, I now leave
those to the younger chaps whose backs are stronger than their brains.
My most recent clutch effort was one of these a couple of months back;
http://tractor-photos.com.s3.amazonaws.com/2682.jpg
Not a difficult job but the tractor needs to be separated. ;-)

If you don't have a hoist, at least put the truck up on ramps - I'd
put it up on both ends - front on ramps and rear on stands. Get a
transmission saddle for the floor jack and chain the trans on firmly.

I'm thinking if he doesn't know *anything* about the job, including what
he needs in the way of equipment, it will be *cheaper* for him to pay
someone who does have a clue and, of course, all the requisite equipment.

--

Xeno
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Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 00:30:51 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
wrote in
Anyone have any idea what I'll need besides a transmission lift?

Have you done a clutch?
How hard is it?

If you ask what work I've done, I've done cooling system overhauls, and
alternator replacements and the like when needed.


Something like these might help.

http://www.factoryrepairmanuals.com/...l-shop-repair/

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Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manualtransmission?

On 09/19/2017 08:59 PM, Chaya Eve wrote:
Any idea of how long the clutch lasts?


Depends on the driver.

Is there a way to remove a view plate to VIEW the clutch plate visually?


Not particularly. Sometimes there is a shield on the bottom of the
bellhousing that you can remove. You can't really see much but if a lot
of dust and pieces of lining are present it isn't good news.

What are the symptoms? Is it slipping when you floor the engine at 50
mph or so? Or just hard to engage and shift. My F150 had a appetite for
throwout bearings that gave the latter symptoms. They were good for
about 75k miles. By the time you're to the throwout you're almost to the
clutch do the last time around I replaced it and the pressure plate. I
think it was about $50 for both. Neither were in bad shape but while
you're there it's not much more work.




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Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manualtransmission?

On 09/19/2017 08:55 PM, Chaya Eve wrote:
The Tundra forum, for some reason, contains adults though.


I'm on the Yaris forum and get a little slop over from the Tundras. The
Yaris crew is pretty good although they lean toward coil-overs and CAI
like frustrated ricer racers. Of course the car is used for club racing
in Japan so the goodies exist.

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Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 22:04:05 +1000, Xeno
wrote:



I'm thinking if he doesn't know *anything* about the job, including what
he needs in the way of equipment, it will be *cheaper* for him to pay
someone who does have a clue and, of course, all the requisite equipment.

I would agree 100%. But some people NEED to do it themselves. More
time than money, or just plain more "stubborn-ness"

When the clutch on my Ranger needed replacement I paid my brother's
shop to do the job even though I'd done hundreds of clutch
replacements in my younger years. At 60 I wasn't going to roll around
under the truck on a creaper to replace it.
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Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 08:05:29 -0600, rbowman wrote:

The Tundra forum, for some reason, contains adults though.


I'm on the Yaris forum and get a little slop over from the Tundras. The
Yaris crew is pretty good although they lean toward coil-overs and CAI
like frustrated ricer racers. Of course the car is used for club racing
in Japan so the goodies exist.


I am not yet on Yaris so I should try them.
Mostly I just want DIYs.
If I could find a DIY for the clutch, that would tell me almost everything.

I did watch a few youtube DIYs and it looks like the general procedure is
something like the following - but the real problem with watching a DIY for
the wrong vehicle is that sometimes little things matter a lot.

For example, if you have to support the engine but you don't think that you
do, or if you have to have a certain sized tool but you don't have it, then
you're stuck at the worst time and place.

Anyway, the "general" procedure seems to be this:
.. While it's on the ground, remove the cabin gear shift mechanism
.. If possible, unbolt the "conning tower" for the shift mechanism
.. Then jackstand the car as high as you can get it (I have 6 ton stands).
.. Remove the drive shaft
.. Remove the slave cylinder
.. Remove the speedometer cable
.. Remove any speed sensors
.. Remove anything else in the way
.. Then support the transmission with a transmission jack
.. Then unbolt the front bell housing

I think that's it.
Did I miss a major step?

One question I have is "will the fluid leak out"?
I think not - but I know that the gearshift lever is open to the fluid.
So if you tip it over, the fluid will certainly come out.

The second question is whether a transmission lift is really needed when
you're in a jackstand situation (so you don't need ten feet of lift).

Can't a floor jack hold the transmission?
I watched one video where a guy wrestled the transmission out by hand.

Must I have a transmission jack?
If I need it I'll get it - but it will only be used once so I'd rather not.


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Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 08:03:20 -0600, rbowman wrote:

Not particularly. Sometimes there is a shield on the bottom of the
bellhousing that you can remove. You can't really see much but if a lot
of dust and pieces of lining are present it isn't good news.


There *is* a semicircular shield plate on the bell housing.
I don't know what is behind it though.

What are the symptoms?

Two different things, one of which was fixed yesterday:
1. The clutch pedal feels like crap (more about that below)
2. It wouldn't shift into gear when cold.

The cold-shift issue somehow, magically, went away when I replaced the
original fluid yesterday with Red Line MT-90 "miracle fluid". I didn't
believe in the miracle fluid, but the driver (who isn't me) reported that
it works just fine now for shifting into gear when cold. Huh? How can that
be? What on earth is so magical about that fluid that it makes shifting
into gear when cold possible when the only thing that changed was the
fluid?

I don't understand it but I'm not complaining.

Is it slipping when you floor the engine at 50 mph or so?


There is no indication of slipping of the clutch.
I can stall the engine easily when I put it in the wrong gear.
I can slip the clutch to get it to go in the wrong gear.
I can start on a hill in the right gear.

So there is no indication that the clutch itself is slipping.
But ...

The pedal feels like crap.

Or just hard to engage and shift.


It was impossible to engage just two days ago. For months, the wife has
been complaining (it's actually her car) that it wouldn't go into gear. So
she shifted into reverse to get out of the garage. Then she turned the
engine off and back on. Then she shifted into first to make her K turn.
Then she turned the engine off and back on. Then she repeated this for as
long as it took her (something like five more steps than it takes me) to
complete her K turn and be on her way.

Yesterday and today, she was able to shift into the first and reverse gears
without turning off the engine! Can a simple oil change do that?

I don't understand it. I really don't.

BTW, I don't know if turning the engine off was necessary. I suspect not. I
suspect she could have gotten it into neutral and just activated the clutch
pedal a few times. The problem was it wouldn't get OUT of gear to go into
neutral. So she shut the engine down. When I tried it, I just held the
brake and pressed the clutch pedal a few times so I think the engine didn't
need to be turned off as I see nothing that turning off the engine should
do to the transmission. Do you?


My F150 had a appetite for
throwout bearings that gave the latter symptoms. They were good for
about 75k miles. By the time you're to the throwout you're almost to the
clutch do the last time around I replaced it and the pressure plate. I
think it was about $50 for both. Neither were in bad shape but while
you're there it's not much more work.


This is my problem.
I know *nothing* about "forks" and "throwout bearings" and "pilot bearings"
etc.

Sure I watched that great video on how transmissions work but that doesn't
give me any *practical* knowledge about how to diagnose why the clutch
pedal feels like crap.

It's so hard to explain that even when I try, it's not the same as feeling
it.

When I step on the pedal, and then release it while in gear, it just
doesn't feel right.

The pedal goes down ok, but then when I lift it up, the first couple of
inches are like floating in air, while the next inch it seems to fully
engage, where the next four or five inches of release travel is wasted as
the clutch is already engaged.

Assume the whole pedal travel is, oh I don't know, let's say 12 inches.
The engagement travel is something like an inch it seems.
The rest of the 11 inches aren't doing anything.

Does that make any sense?
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Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 00:10:50 -0400, wrote:

I once changed a cast iron Powerglide working on my back under the
car. Darn near killed me.


I do all my maintenance such that my 15-year old cars have never been to a
mechanic, almost.

But I've never messed with is a manual transmission.

I have four jack stands of 6-ton size (which is something like 16 inches).
I also have two ramps, but I almost never use them because the floor jack
is pretty beefy. It goes about 15 inches. It's the costco steel big one,
which I bought about ten years ago (now Costco has aluminum ones that I
salivate over but I don't need a third floor jack).

If you don't have a hoist, at least put the truck up on ramps - I'd
put it up on both ends - front on ramps and rear on stands. Get a
transmission saddle for the floor jack and chain the trans on firmly.


THIS IS GREAT NEW INFORMATION!

I never heard of a "transmission saddle" for a floor jack until this moment!

I never mind buying a tool that I *need* (because it's still cheaper than
paying someone $630+tax to do the clutch); but I don't want to buy a $100
transmission stand if I don't really need it (where I don't need the ten
feet of lift but I do need the ability to hold the transmission down!

If this "transmission saddle" can be bought locally, I'll get it!
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On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 22:04:05 +1000, Xeno wrote:

I'm thinking if he doesn't know *anything* about the job, including what
he needs in the way of equipment, it will be *cheaper* for him to pay
someone who does have a clue and, of course, all the requisite equipment.


I just called a random shop who charges $630 for the job, so my thoughts
are that the first $630 are free by way of tools.

Of course, that includes parts, so, let's halve that which means that the
first $300 are for the tools.

At that price, I can afford a specifically designed transmission jack - but
it's still a tool that I won't ever need again (although I know, as you
know, that these things have ways of finding themselves useful in the
future).

My garage is filled to the brim with tools, some of which I bought for
specific jobs which are small, like pickle forks or spring compressors or
special wrenches (I still have curved distributor wrenches from the 70s and
a dwell meter by way of examples of tools just sitting there doing
nothing).

I don't mind buying a tool if it saves me money on the job, but I would
rather not buy a transmission jack that is only going to be used once. For
example, I have a HF motorcyle lift that I only used once. It worked for
that bike but it's long gone so now it just takes up room in my garage.

I do like the idea of the floor jack "transmission saddle" though, as it
will store easily and it goes onto my existing floor jack. I just need to
find one...
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Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manual transmission?

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 10:35:32 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

My '91 Regal was a PITA to change oil. Did it twice. For the few bucks
saved, that was the last time I crawled under a car.


I have cars that are 15 to 20 years old and I do all my work.
The only job I've not done is a clutch.
In a way, it's the one job I wish I could do.
Well, I wish I could do an engine replacement too - but I'll never do that.

But a clutch?
I wish I could do it.

I just need to do my homework first.
Which is what I'm doing here by asking what it entails.

It seems that, so far, the idea of the transmission saddle was the BEST
ANSSWER because I don't have to buy a one-time-use transmission jack.

I just called a shop and got a quote of $630 assuming nothing else was
needed (e.g., overheated flywheel needing replacement), so, that's about
two hundred more than I thought the quote would come out at.

At that price, the transmission jack is nothing. Sure it will take up even
more space in may already crowded garage. But it will save more money than
it costs. Still - the saddle seems to be the way to go since it won't cost
as much, won't take up as much space, and will work as well (we presume).

Once I have that, the rest seems to be just bolts.
(Famous last words.)

Here is a picture of the transmission when I replaced the fluid two days
ago. It seems to be some kind of "alloy" which means it might not be heavy.
https://s26.postimg.org/c820lcoc9/01...uid_Change.jpg
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On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 07:18:49 -0500, CRNG wrote:

Something like these might help.

http://www.factoryrepairmanuals.com/...l-shop-repair/


I actually have both the so-called factory shop manuals somewhere in my
crowded garage. I bought them for about $100 when the car was new two
decades ago, like I always did for all my vehicles.

I also have the Hanes somewhere (probably in the same spot). I can't find
them but that doesn't matter because anyone who recommends a shop manual
from Japan probably hasn't ever read one (or, has a lot more experience
than I have).

For example, I used that shop manual to replace the front shocks after
compressing the springs and everything was either wrong or missing in the
steps actually needed. Some things were assumed. Most didn't apply because
the shop manual handled a few models (although the Hanes/Chiltons are far
far far worse in trying to cover everything at the same time).

As someone who has used shop manuals for decades, in a word, they suck.

There is nothing wrong with having a shop manual mind you.
But having one doesn't make them not suck.



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On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 16:51:16 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Heh heh ... that was me (if you're talking E39 and not X5).


Could have been E39. I sometimes flip among the various models
that share the same M54 engine. So, probably was you...


Yeah. Lots of bimmers have the M54.
That's one thing BMW got right.
The engine and the drive train and the steering/suspension.
Plus interior noise is pretty low.

Everything else is essentially not much thought about on a bimmer.
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On Wednesday, September 20, 2017 at 9:18:47 PM UTC-4, Chaya Eve wrote:
On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 16:51:16 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

Heh heh ... that was me (if you're talking E39 and not X5).


Could have been E39. I sometimes flip among the various models
that share the same M54 engine. So, probably was you...


Yeah. Lots of bimmers have the M54.
That's one thing BMW got right.
The engine and the drive train and the steering/suspension.
Plus interior noise is pretty low.

Everything else is essentially not much thought about on a bimmer.


One thing I recently learned is that when you have the AC compressor
switch set to on, it appears that it basically runs it with the AC
full on and uses the heater to then warm the air to the set temp.
I can understand the need to do that to some extent, to remove
humidity. You want to drop the air temp to remove humidity, then
warm it back up. But when it's not humid, it's a waste of energy to run
the AC compressor excessively. You would think when they are desperate
to increase mileage to meet govt reqts that reducing the AC load
would be something that could be easily done. A humidity sensor
for example. Also they target an AC coil temp just a couple deg
above freezing, while other cars appear to maintain a higher temp.
So they are constantly chilling air down to near freezing, only
to heat it back up to get it to 72F.
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Default How hard is it to replace a clutch in a 5-speed manualtransmission?

On 09/20/2017 02:03 PM, Chaya Eve wrote:
Assume the whole pedal travel is, oh I don't know, let's say 12 inches.
The engagement travel is something like an inch it seems.
The rest of the 11 inches aren't doing anything.


Is the clutch linkage mechanical or hydraulic? Get under it and you'll
see some sort of lever sticking out the side of the bellhousing. Have
your wife operate the clutch and see if you are getting a full stroke
and smooth travel.

It really sounds like the clutch isn't disengaging cleanly. It doesn't
take too much drag to make shifting difficult. With the F150 the
throwout bearing was the culprit. It would start to hang up on the nose
of the transmission. At first I thought it was the slave cylinder of the
hydraulic so I replaced it. (And anyway that was a lot easier).

The symptoms were very erratic so sometimes it would work, sometimes
not. I also thought it might be the pivot ball for the lever arm. A
spray of lube and it would work for a while but I think that was just
coincidental. That could be why your miracle oil worked.


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On 09/20/2017 01:51 PM, Chaya Eve wrote:
Anyway, the "general" procedure seems to be this:
. While it's on the ground, remove the cabin gear shift mechanism
. If possible, unbolt the "conning tower" for the shift mechanism
. Then jackstand the car as high as you can get it (I have 6 ton stands).
. Remove the drive shaft
. Remove the slave cylinder
. Remove the speedometer cable
. Remove any speed sensors
. Remove anything else in the way
. Then support the transmission with a transmission jack
. Then unbolt the front bell housing

I think that's it.
Did I miss a major step?


I'd have to see a 4Runner to be sure, but usually the transmission bolts
to the bellhousing with 4 or so bolts. The transmission has a round
boss, say 1/4" deep that is a snug fit into the bellhousing to keep
everything centered. Just removing those might do the trick. Typically
the bellhousing itself will have a bunch of smaller cap screws around
the perimeter that can be a pain in the butt. The housing might have a
bushing for the nose of the starter motor that's something else to line up.

The second question is whether a transmission lift is really needed when
you're in a jackstand situation (so you don't need ten feet of lift).

Can't a floor jack hold the transmission?
I watched one video where a guy wrestled the transmission out by hand.


I've done it without a jack more than with one. Newer transmissions are
relatively light, but then I can't bench press what I could 40 years ago
either. the real problem with doing that is the input shaft of the
transmission needs to be level and square to pick up the clutch splines
and get the end of the shaft into the pilot bearing in the end of the
crankshaft. (again, generic, a 4Runner might be a little different)
Horsing around a 60 or 70 pound awkward hunk can be tricky.

You can use a floor jack. The problem is most floor jacks only have a
small cup. You need to figure out someway to balance the transmission
and secure it. Then the shaft might not be at quite the right angle so
you need to wedge it. A transmission jack with have a larger surface to
hold the transmission, generally some brackets to secure it in the right
position, straps to tie it down, and maybe a way to tilt the whole deal.
Most tool rental places have them and unless you're on a really tight
budget it is one hell of a lot easier. When I was a kid I didn't have
much cash in hand and did most things the hard way. it can be done but
it's not much fun.



Must I have a transmission jack?
If I need it I'll get it - but it will only be used once so I'd rather not.


Rent it. The local Time Rental is showing $34.50 a day. If you don't
have a torque wrench you can generally rent those too. Another thing
about keeping the tranny nice and level and upright is you don't
suddenly find out that there really isn't a shaft seal on the input or
output shaft and fill your armpit with fluid.

If you figure it will take more than a couple of days you might find
something like this locally:

https://www.amazon.com/Gotobuy-Trans.../dp/B01MTXZE6J

Even if it's a couple of bucks more locally you can measure up your
floor jack and make sure it's something that's going to fit without
going off onto another project to make it work.


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On 09/20/2017 02:39 PM, Chaya Eve wrote:
If this "transmission saddle" can be bought locally, I'll get it!


Walmart shows them but I imagine it would be something they would have
to order before you find out how well it works with your floor jack.
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On 09/20/2017 03:04 PM, Chaya Eve wrote:
I also have the Hanes somewhere (probably in the same spot). I can't find
them but that doesn't matter because anyone who recommends a shop manual
from Japan probably hasn't ever read one (or, has a lot more experience
than I have).


I've got the manuals for both of my Suzuki bikes. Some parts like the
electronics are good, others do assume you've worked on bikes and just
hit the high spots.

Years ago I was buttoning up a rebuild on a Healey and I got to the
point where you replace the distributor drive shaft. The shaft was
drilled and tapped for a small screw and the manual specified a screw of
a certain length, maybe 2". I only had a shorter one so I figured they
were just being anal. Seems the short one isn't long enough to hold onto
and engage the drive gear so you drop the whole mess into the crankcase.
There wasn't any oil in it yet but there were sure a lot of little
screws holding the crankcase on...


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On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 20:03:48 +0000 (UTC), Chaya Eve
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Sep 2017 08:03:20 -0600, rbowman wrote:

Not particularly. Sometimes there is a shield on the bottom of the
bellhousing that you can remove. You can't really see much but if a lot
of dust and pieces of lining are present it isn't good news.


There *is* a semicircular shield plate on the bell housing.
I don't know what is behind it though.

What are the symptoms?

Two different things, one of which was fixed yesterday:
1. The clutch pedal feels like crap (more about that below)
2. It wouldn't shift into gear when cold.

The cold-shift issue somehow, magically, went away when I replaced the
original fluid yesterday with Red Line MT-90 "miracle fluid". I didn't
believe in the miracle fluid, but the driver (who isn't me) reported that
it works just fine now for shifting into gear when cold. Huh? How can that
be? What on earth is so magical about that fluid that it makes shifting
into gear when cold possible when the only thing that changed was the
fluid?

I don't understand it but I'm not complaining.


Likely some idiot put the wrong fluid in lastr time it was changed.
There IS a difference between GL4, GL5, ATF, and engine oil. Differnt
transmissions are built to use different fluids.

Is it slipping when you floor the engine at 50 mph or so?


There is no indication of slipping of the clutch.
I can stall the engine easily when I put it in the wrong gear.
I can slip the clutch to get it to go in the wrong gear.
I can start on a hill in the right gear.

So there is no indication that the clutch itself is slipping.
But ...

The pedal feels like crap.

Or just hard to engage and shift.


It was impossible to engage just two days ago. For months, the wife has
been complaining (it's actually her car) that it wouldn't go into gear. So
she shifted into reverse to get out of the garage. Then she turned the
engine off and back on. Then she shifted into first to make her K turn.
Then she turned the engine off and back on. Then she repeated this for as
long as it took her (something like five more steps than it takes me) to
complete her K turn and be on her way.

Yesterday and today, she was able to shift into the first and reverse gears
without turning off the engine! Can a simple oil change do that?

I don't understand it. I really don't.

BTW, I don't know if turning the engine off was necessary. I suspect not. I
suspect she could have gotten it into neutral and just activated the clutch
pedal a few times. The problem was it wouldn't get OUT of gear to go into
neutral. So she shut the engine down. When I tried it, I just held the
brake and pressed the clutch pedal a few times so I think the engine didn't
need to be turned off as I see nothing that turning off the engine should
do to the transmission. Do you?


I'd be checking the release cyl

My F150 had a appetite for
throwout bearings that gave the latter symptoms. They were good for
about 75k miles. By the time you're to the throwout you're almost to the
clutch do the last time around I replaced it and the pressure plate. I
think it was about $50 for both. Neither were in bad shape but while
you're there it's not much more work.


This is my problem.
I know *nothing* about "forks" and "throwout bearings" and "pilot bearings"
etc.


Again, another reason paying someone who knows MIGHT be a good
investment.

Sure I watched that great video on how transmissions work but that doesn't
give me any *practical* knowledge about how to diagnose why the clutch
pedal feels like crap.

It's so hard to explain that even when I try, it's not the same as feeling
it.

When I step on the pedal, and then release it while in gear, it just
doesn't feel right.


The clutch master might be bad too.

The pedal goes down ok, but then when I lift it up, the first couple of
inches are like floating in air, while the next inch it seems to fully
engage, where the next four or five inches of release travel is wasted as
the clutch is already engaged.


I'd be checking the hydraulics and the linkage before tearing the
transmission out.

Assume the whole pedal travel is, oh I don't know, let's say 12 inches.
The engagement travel is something like an inch it seems.
The rest of the 11 inches aren't doing anything.

Does that make any sense?


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