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Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/15/2017 11:00 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 10:52:56 AM UTC-4, wrote: On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 08:00:26 -0400, "dadiOH" wrote: that is not a beating. Doen't matter, the cops still caused the injuries. If the flight leader had just got on the intercom and announced "We can push back until that jerk in 22 D gets his ass off this plane" the passengers would have kicked his ass and threw him onto the jetway. And now that airlines have said they will offer up to $10,000 to passengers to get off the plane, what will happen next is predictable. They will ask for volunteers, some guy will accept at $300 and some other passenger will start a fight, attack him, because it interfered with his expected $5,000 or $10,000 pay out. IMO, it was just as dumb for Delta to publicly announce the upper limit. Bumping will be turned into an auction. I know I'd grab if the prize got big enough. I'd certainly go for $5000 because the next guy may take it at $5100 and then all I'd get is a trip home. |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ... IMO, it was just as dumb for Delta to publicly announce the upper limit. Bumping will be turned into an auction. I know I'd grab if the prize got big enough. I'd certainly go for $5000 because the next guy may take it at $5100 and then all I'd get is a trip home. I'm doing $4900 :) |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/15/2017 11:07 AM, trader_4 wrote:
***Old man you need little "Education" if you made Reservation you can not back out it is paid for, unless you have taking Flight Insurance for which you must need to have good reason to back out! Wrong again. Whether a ticket is refundable or not depends on the airline policy and the particular ticket. There are full fare tickets that are refundable. Many other tickets, while not refundable can still be used, subject to a change fee. Not like the old days. If you finished your business early and had a 5 o'clock flight on TWA you could use that ticket to get on the 2:15 on Eastern Airlines if they had a seat. Another trick to get cheap fares was to book two dates on different airlines as the lowest fare required a Saturday between. My boss went to Chicago on Monday on Delta, returned on Tuesday on United. A week later I used the other half of the tickets yo go on United and return on Delta. No ID was needed at the gate, just a ticket. |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:37:54 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/15/2017 11:00 AM, trader_4 wrote: On Friday, April 14, 2017 at 10:52:56 AM UTC-4, wrote: On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 08:00:26 -0400, "dadiOH" wrote: that is not a beating. Doen't matter, the cops still caused the injuries. If the flight leader had just got on the intercom and announced "We can push back until that jerk in 22 D gets his ass off this plane" the passengers would have kicked his ass and threw him onto the jetway. And now that airlines have said they will offer up to $10,000 to passengers to get off the plane, what will happen next is predictable. They will ask for volunteers, some guy will accept at $300 and some other passenger will start a fight, attack him, because it interfered with his expected $5,000 or $10,000 pay out. IMO, it was just as dumb for Delta to publicly announce the upper limit. Bumping will be turned into an auction. I know I'd grab if the prize got big enough. I'd certainly go for $5000 because the next guy may take it at $5100 and then all I'd get is a trip home. They were careful to say "taken off a plane". The auction at the gate did not change. |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:37:54 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
I'd certainly go for $5000 because the next guy may take it at $5100 and then all I'd get is a trip home. .... with the privilege of paying taxes on the money |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/15/2017 11:47 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/15/2017 11:07 AM, trader_4 wrote: ***Old man you need little "Education" if you made Reservation you can not back out it is paid for, unless you have taking Flight Insurance for which you must need to have good reason to back out! Wrong again. Whether a ticket is refundable or not depends on the airline policy and the particular ticket. There are full fare tickets that are refundable. Many other tickets, while not refundable can still be used, subject to a change fee. Not like the old days. If you finished your business early and had a 5 o'clock flight on TWA you could use that ticket to get on the 2:15 on Eastern Airlines if they had a seat. Another trick to get cheap fares was to book two dates on different airlines as the lowest fare required a Saturday between. My boss went to Chicago on Monday on Delta, returned on Tuesday on United. A week later I used the other half of the tickets yo go on United and return on Delta. No ID was needed at the gate, just a ticket. They would not do it where I worked but EU divisions would buy two round trip tickets to US for a brief visit and even throw half away to save money. I flew once from Philly to Cincinnati with a marketing manager who used her own travel agent and ticket was $100 less because her trip started in NYC to transfer in Philly so she just threw away the NYC to Philly parts. |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 05:09:37 -0700 (PDT), Andy
wrote: Police had no probable cause to remove a paying passenger. They are guilt of assault. They will get their as@ sued too. You can sue a ham sandwich. The cops are protected under _Color of Law_ as long as they acted in accordance with the law. Proving otherwise can be difficult. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_(law) https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/242 |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 05:12:50 -0700 (PDT), Andy
wrote: When you find yourself at odds with the law, comply peacefully with their requests. Later, if you feel you've been wronged, get a fat-faced ambulance-chasing lawyer and sue everyone involved. He broke no laws. But they broke many. Jury will see that and rule accordingly. Citation needed for the "many" laws that they "broke". How you know these things before the agency internal investigation hasn't even been concluded and made public? Eh? "Educate" yourself young man. |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 10:48:12 AM UTC-4, Shadow wrote:
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 09:03:48 -0400, Bill wrote: But we agree on one thing, juries are scary-stupid. No, just stupid. Too stupid to get off jury duty. []'s It would never occur to me to "get off" jury duty. It's my duty as a citizen. Or perhaps the concept of "duty" is unknown to you. Cindy Hamilton |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/15/2017 9:03 AM, Bill wrote: But we agree on one thing, juries are scary-stupid. Dr Duh will likely get a pile of cash. FWIW, if I had my way, this clown would have to pay restitution to all the other passengers and the airline for delaying the flight. Airline already reimbursed the passengers. not to mention the CEO said he was horrified by the video and said it should have *NEVER* happened. So much for the Monday quarterbacks |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/15/2017 11:24 AM, ChairMan wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 4/15/2017 9:03 AM, Bill wrote: But we agree on one thing, juries are scary-stupid. Dr Duh will likely get a pile of cash. FWIW, if I had my way, this clown would have to pay restitution to all the other passengers and the airline for delaying the flight. Airline already reimbursed the passengers. not to mention the CEO said he was horrified by the video and said it should have *NEVER* happened. So much for the Monday quarterbacks saying "it should never have happened" is not the same thing as being legally liable. |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/15/2017 2:24 PM, ChairMan wrote:
Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 4/15/2017 9:03 AM, Bill wrote: But we agree on one thing, juries are scary-stupid. Dr Duh will likely get a pile of cash. FWIW, if I had my way, this clown would have to pay restitution to all the other passengers and the airline for delaying the flight. Airline already reimbursed the passengers. not to mention the CEO said he was horrified by the video and said it should have *NEVER* happened. So much for the Monday quarterbacks He's right. Not knowing their policies and who has authority to do what no one here can say exactly what should have been done, of course. The problem should/could have been taken care of before boarding. Sometimes you even have to go outside of the policy to get the job done. The passenger was being an a-hole too. |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:12:10 -0700 (PDT), Cindy Hamilton
wrote: On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 10:48:12 AM UTC-4, Shadow wrote: On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 09:03:48 -0400, Bill wrote: But we agree on one thing, juries are scary-stupid. No, just stupid. Too stupid to get off jury duty. []'s It would never occur to me to "get off" jury duty. It's my duty as a citizen. Or perhaps the concept of "duty" is unknown to you. I'm more useful saving lives than getting 1/12th vote on if some loser goes to jail or not. Obviously, not your case. []'s -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 20:13:17 GMT, "Tekkie"
wrote: Not if they are snowflakes. Like the Trumpet's promises ? Gone before spring... []'s -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/15/2017 1:13 PM, Tekkie� wrote:
On 14-Apr-2017, wrote: On Fri, 14 Apr 2017 08:00:26 -0400, "dadiOH" wrote: that is not a beating. Doen't matter, the cops still caused the injuries. If the flight leader had just got on the intercom and announced "We can push back until that jerk in 22 D gets his ass off this plane" the passengers would have kicked his ass and threw him onto the jetway. Not if they are snowflakes. "oh dear, what shall we do?" Discussion ensues. |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/15/2017 11:46 AM, dadiOH wrote:
"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ... IMO, it was just as dumb for Delta to publicly announce the upper limit. Bumping will be turned into an auction. I know I'd grab if the prize got big enough. I'd certainly go for $5000 because the next guy may take it at $5100 and then all I'd get is a trip home. I'm doing $4900 :) Prick ! I'm taking Greyhound |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 22:32:31 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/15/2017 11:46 AM, dadiOH wrote: "Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ... IMO, it was just as dumb for Delta to publicly announce the upper limit. Bumping will be turned into an auction. I know I'd grab if the prize got big enough. I'd certainly go for $5000 because the next guy may take it at $5100 and then all I'd get is a trip home. I'm doing $4900 :) Prick ! I'm taking Greyhound Meh. I'm going in a Limo. |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/15/2017 10:25 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 22:32:31 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 4/15/2017 11:46 AM, dadiOH wrote: "Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ... IMO, it was just as dumb for Delta to publicly announce the upper limit. Bumping will be turned into an auction. I know I'd grab if the prize got big enough. I'd certainly go for $5000 because the next guy may take it at $5100 and then all I'd get is a trip home. I'm doing $4900 :) Prick ! I'm taking Greyhound Meh. I'm going in a Limo. Where are the REAL men who want to go back to their roots and ride by pony express? -- Maggie |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 22:30:24 -0500, Muggles
wrote: On 4/15/2017 10:25 PM, Oren wrote: On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 22:32:31 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 4/15/2017 11:46 AM, dadiOH wrote: "Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ... IMO, it was just as dumb for Delta to publicly announce the upper limit. Bumping will be turned into an auction. I know I'd grab if the prize got big enough. I'd certainly go for $5000 because the next guy may take it at $5100 and then all I'd get is a trip home. I'm doing $4900 :) Prick ! I'm taking Greyhound Meh. I'm going in a Limo. Where are the REAL men who want to go back to their roots and ride by pony express? Go for it. Tell us if you ass hurts. |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/15/2017 10:39 PM, Oren wrote:
On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 22:30:24 -0500, Muggles wrote: On 4/15/2017 10:25 PM, Oren wrote: On Sat, 15 Apr 2017 22:32:31 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 4/15/2017 11:46 AM, dadiOH wrote: "Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ... IMO, it was just as dumb for Delta to publicly announce the upper limit. Bumping will be turned into an auction. I know I'd grab if the prize got big enough. I'd certainly go for $5000 because the next guy may take it at $5100 and then all I'd get is a trip home. I'm doing $4900 :) Prick ! I'm taking Greyhound Meh. I'm going in a Limo. Where are the REAL men who want to go back to their roots and ride by pony express? Go for it. Tell us if you ass hurts. I'm not a real man! -- Maggie |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 10:58:22 -0500
Muggles wrote: I'm not a real man! You are sloppy fat and ugly...could be a tranny. |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 10:58:22 -0500, Muggles
wrote: I'm not a real man! Nor is Oren, but nevertheless you're in for a treat: https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbi...4-documentary/ Go Pony Express !!! Don't forget to ask for the "special" saddle. []'s -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
"Shadow" wrote in message ... On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 10:58:22 -0500, Muggles wrote: I'm not a real man!=== Transgender! Nor is Oren, but nevertheless you're in for a treat: https://www.thesun.co.uk/tvandshowbi...4-documentary/ Go Pony Express !!! Don't forget to ask for the "special" saddle. []'s -- Don't be evil - Google 2004 We have a new policy - Google 2012 |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
trader_4
Sat, 15 Apr 2017 15:07:10 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote: You come into my store, have a dispute with me, I try to reason with you, we can't agree, so I tell you to leave, you refuse, I call the cops. You refuse the cops order to leave. What happens next? Using your oddball comparison, that depends on whether or not I already paid you for a service or product. Did I get what I paid you for? If not, feel free to call the cops, I will gladly wait on them. Here, atleast, you will be forking either my monies, OR, what I paid you for when they do arrive and have a chat with both of us. Otherwise, it's larceny and depending on the amount grand larceny. You will fork over what I paid you for, on the spot, or my money as in full refund. Or you, the manager/store owner, is going for a free ride to the jail house. Yes, I'd show up for court to see it through, too. No quick case dismissed for you, not for the aggravation and efforts to intimidate me with a police call. Know your ****ing rights, I says. -- I would like to apologize for not having offended you yet. Please be patient. I will get to you shortly. |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
Ed Pawlowski Sun, 16
Apr 2017 02:32:31 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote: On 4/15/2017 11:46 AM, dadiOH wrote: "Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ... IMO, it was just as dumb for Delta to publicly announce the upper limit. Bumping will be turned into an auction. I know I'd grab if the prize got big enough. I'd certainly go for $5000 because the next guy may take it at $5100 and then all I'd get is a trip home. I'm doing $4900 :) Prick ! I'm taking Greyhound The hell you will! I bought all the tickets, in advance. [g] I'll take $4750. :-) -- I would like to apologize for not having offended you yet. Please be patient. I will get to you shortly. |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 04/15/2017 11:07 AM, trader_4 wrote:
You come into my store, have a dispute with me, I try to reason with you, we can't agree, so I tell you to leave, you refuse, I call the cops. You refuse the cops order to leave. What happens next? http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-for-absolvin/ The facts are clear: If you want to travel by air, you must agree to do what youre told,Mr. Rowe http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/mike-rowe/said. If you dont, you subject yourself to fine, arrest, constraint, forcible removal, and/or a permanent ban from the friendly skies. Its all there in the fine print. Personally, I support this policy. I support it because I dont want to fly across the country in a steel tube filled with people who get to decide which rules they will follow and which they will ignore, the television host continued. Ive been on too many flights with too many angry people to worry about the specific circumstances of their outrage, or the details of why they took it upon themselves to ignore a direct command. A plane is not a democracy, and the main cabin is no place to organize a sit-in. The main cabin is a place to follow orders, he concluded. |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 8:30:08 PM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:
trader_4 Sat, 15 Apr 2017 15:07:10 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote: You come into my store, have a dispute with me, I try to reason with you, we can't agree, so I tell you to leave, you refuse, I call the cops. You refuse the cops order to leave. What happens next? Using your oddball comparison, that depends on whether or not I already paid you for a service or product. Did I get what I paid you for? If not, feel free to call the cops, I will gladly wait on them. Here, atleast, you will be forking either my monies, OR, what I paid you for when they do arrive and have a chat with both of us. The airline was willing to refund the ticket cost. And it's not at all an odd ball comparison. A dispute like that is a civil matter and the cops routinely tell people on both sides that. If a store owner has had enough of you and wants you off the property, that is within their rights and cops will remove you if you refuse to go. If you think you are entitled to a refund, your money back, whatever, that gets settled in civil court, not in the shop by you refusing to leave. This happens frequently, for example where a customer thinks they should have a right to a refund, but the store policy is to give a store credit only or no refund perios. Try resolving that by refusing to leave the store and see what happens. Otherwise, it's larceny and depending on the amount grand larceny. Nonsense. It's simply a civil dispute. You will fork over what I paid you for, on the spot, or my money as in full refund. Or you, the manager/store owner, is going for a free ride to the jail house. Maybe in your world, but not in the real world. The cops will tell both parties it's a civil matter. But you will go for a ride in the cop car if you refuse the cops order to leave the property. When it gets to that stage, cops want you out of there. Not only because the property owner has the right to have you off his property, but because it removes the potential for physical violence and sets a new boundary for who is right and who is wrong. If you come back, you're clearly wrong and guilty of trespass. |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Tuesday, April 18, 2017 at 4:30:39 AM UTC-4, Roger wrote:
On 04/15/2017 11:07 AM, trader_4 wrote: You come into my store, have a dispute with me, I try to reason with you, we can't agree, so I tell you to leave, you refuse, I call the cops. You refuse the cops order to leave. What happens next? http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-for-absolvin/ The facts are clear: If you want to travel by air, you must agree to do what youre told,Mr. Rowe http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/mike-rowe/said. If you dont, you subject yourself to fine, arrest, constraint, forcible removal, and/or a permanent ban from the friendly skies. Its all there in the fine print. Personally, I support this policy. I support it because I dont want to fly across the country in a steel tube filled with people who get to decide which rules they will follow and which they will ignore, the television host continued. Ive been on too many flights with too many angry people to worry about the specific circumstances of their outrage, or the details of why they took it upon themselves to ignore a direct command. A plane is not a democracy, and the main cabin is no place to organize a sit-in. The main cabin is a place to follow orders, he concluded. That's kind of the perspective I have too. This doc didn't care about the consequences of holding up the plane, what it was doing to the other passengers. It was all about him. He apparently had to take anger management as part of his sentencing for his drug conviction too and that doesn't come out of nowhere. The airline should have handled it differently too, the cops need to look at what happened and how they possibly could have handled removing him differently. But at least those parties acknowledge they made mistakes. The doc? Nothing. |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
"trader_4" wrote in message ... On Tuesday, April 18, 2017 at 4:30:39 AM UTC-4, Roger wrote: On 04/15/2017 11:07 AM, trader_4 wrote: You come into my store, have a dispute with me, I try to reason with you, we can't agree, so I tell you to leave, you refuse, I call the cops. You refuse the cops order to leave. What happens next? http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-for-absolvin/ The facts are clear: If you want to travel by air, you must agree to do what youre told,Mr. Rowe http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/mike-rowe/said. If you dont, you subject yourself to fine, arrest, constraint, forcible removal, and/or a permanent ban from the friendly skies. Its all there in the fine print. Personally, I support this policy. I support it because I dont want to fly across the country in a steel tube filled with people who get to decide which rules they will follow and which they will ignore, the television host continued. Ive been on too many flights with too many angry people to worry about the specific circumstances of their outrage, or the details of why they took it upon themselves to ignore a direct command. A plane is not a democracy, and the main cabin is no place to organize a sit-in. The main cabin is a place to follow orders, he concluded. No Airplane is not Democracy it is own by people who pays for it!!! ***You guys are mixing Cherry and Apples as usual !!!! ***Old man you need little "Education" if you made Reservation you can not back out it is paid for, unless you have taking Flight Insurance for which you must need to have good reason to back out! There for you own that space, for that reserved time. "Only criminal or suspected criminal or abnormal behavior person can be removed from any Public transportation. "NO Wouldha, Couldha or Shouldha" it is not acceptable! United Airlines CEO should be in Jail and pay fines minimum of (1) one Million for they action and the airport Police should be fined too "Because this dose not have anything to do with Criminology, it is Civil matters which must be resolved in court of Law, which apparently police decided to take rules on them self. They action is Gestapo tactics and it is not acceptable... This action of United Air-Liner; it is General practice and our Ethical in ???? DOJ should step-in and make sure that never happens again. I had reservation on United airlines from San Francisco to Newark NJ with Handicap spouse in Business class next to each other because of her condition, and paid for; but after I check in I was split with my spouse and put all the way in back cabin Couch class where space is limited even for person to fart. No I will not accept apology from UAL or their CEO it would be to companionate to call them Filthy *******s! Dear CEO shove apology to your ???? We do not need apology but action!!! As for you because perhaps getting benefits from UAL go and **** yourself scumbag! That's kind of the perspective I have too. This doc didn't care about the consequences of holding up the plane, what it was doing to the other passengers. It was all about him. He apparently had to take anger management as part of his sentencing for his drug conviction too and that doesn't come out of nowhere. The airline should have handled it differently too, the cops need to look at what happened and how they possibly could have handled removing him differently. But at least those parties acknowledge they made mistakes. The doc? Nothing. |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
trader_4
Wed, 19 Apr 2017 16:01:57 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote: On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 8:30:08 PM UTC-4, Diesel wrote: trader_4 Sat, 15 Apr 2017 15:07:10 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote: You come into my store, have a dispute with me, I try to reason with you, we can't agree, so I tell you to leave, you refuse, I call the cops. You refuse the cops order to leave. What happens next? Using your oddball comparison, that depends on whether or not I already paid you for a service or product. Did I get what I paid you for? If not, feel free to call the cops, I will gladly wait on them. Here, atleast, you will be forking either my monies, OR, what I paid you for when they do arrive and have a chat with both of us. The airline was willing to refund the ticket cost. And it's not at all an odd ball comparison. It most certainly is. It's an Apples and Oranges comparison, actually. Otherwise, it's larceny and depending on the amount grand larceny. Nonsense. It's simply a civil dispute. Not here, it isn't. you either render the services I paid you for, or the product I paid you for, or refund my money, or the local police will happily take you to jail and charge you accordingly. We're not discussing the rules and conditions of an aircraft, We're using the example YOU chose to provide. You will fork over what I paid you for, on the spot, or my money as in full refund. Or you, the manager/store owner, is going for a free ride to the jail house. Maybe in your world, but not in the real world. The cops will tell both parties it's a civil matter. No, in the real world, as in, the state of TN, you will refund my money, provide the services I paid you for, or the product, or the cops WILL take you to jail with the charge of larceny or grand larceny if the amount is beyond a certain point. You are more than welcome to fact check me with your favorite search engine. I wouldn't even begin to try and bull**** you about this. If I give you money for a product and/or services you haven't provided and you won't either refund it, or provide said services/product, it's considered THEFT here and you will be taken to jail. But you will go for a ride in the cop car if you refuse the cops order to leave the property. The cop won't ask me to leave the property until the issue is resolved. if I paid you and you don't honor your end, the cop will tell you that you HAVE to honor it, or give me my money back. We're not talking about an aircraft here, we're talking specifically about your poorly chosen comparison. IE: a shop keeper. I've been there, done that, know from first hand experience how it works here. As a shop keeper in this state, you will do what you were paid to do, or, refund what I paid you. If you don't, you are going to get a free ride if you decide to get smug and call them. The cop isn't going to ask me to leave as you seem to think. That's NOT how it works here. The cop is going to ask you the shop keeper if I paid you, if I have a receipt; it's much easier to prove I did. The cop is going to ask me if I got what I paid for, if I say no, and have that receipt but no proof of taking possession of the item I paid you for, or the services you were supposed to render, the cop WILL tell you to give me the money back, do the services you were hired to do, or, give me the product I already paid you for. If you refuse, you are going to jail with the charge of larceny or grand larceny if the amount exceeds a specific value. Fact check me, I look forward to it. As, it's considered to be theft here. Which, by all rights, it most certainly is. When it gets to that stage, cops want you out of there. Not only because the property owner has the right to have you off his property, but because it removes the potential for physical violence and sets a new boundary for who is right and who is wrong. If you come back, you're clearly wrong and guilty of trespass. As with our IT discussion concerning Firefox, you're writing complete ******** on a subject you know nothing about, atleast, in the state of Tennessee. Here, the cops take both sides of the story and make a decision accordingly. They do not immediate try to force one party to leave, until they've had a chance to speak to both of them. While the property owner has the right to tell me to leave, he doesn't have the right to keep my money without providing what I paid him for. If he does, he's going to jail. It may be different where you live, but, that's how it is here. As a business owner myself, if I don't do what you hired me to do and I refuse to give you your money back, I will be charged for larceny or grand larceny and they will take me to jail. Walmart isn't even exempt from this here. If I have something on layaway and I've paid it off, and you can't for whatever reason give the item(s) to me, and you refuse to give me my money back, you, the walmart employee (unless you can prove that you didn't specifically deal with me previously, ie: shift change), then your supervisor gets to go for a ride in your place. I repeat, I don't have to do the walmarts routine of calling corporate to have it resolved here. The cops will 'resolve' it on the spot on my behalf by taking you to jail. I don't have to call a corporate number and wait for it to be resolved on their terms. You give me my money back, or, you give me what I paid you for, or, you're going to be taking a ride in the back of a city cruiser. I've seen this happen, first hand with a customer who had a dispute concerning a layaway purchase. The individual paid it off, and Walmarts employees couldn't provide the items and refused to give the person a refund. They tried the 'call corporate, it's not our problem routine' and it didn't work as they thought it would, here. In that particular case, the employee and the immediate supervisor of that dept was arrested for larceny and taken to jail, because they would not refund the individuals money. The cop gave them the choice of doing a complete refund or goto jail. The customer had his paperwork in proper order. They take theft very seriously in the bible belt, Trader. I've been involved first hand in another matter where the store owner took my money, did not provide the goods, and called the cops on me for refusing to leave his store. He was arrested and went to jail, that same day, for theft. I was told to go ahead and leave after he was stuffed and cuffed. Which made perfect sense, considering he was already arrested and had to close his mom and pop store down as a result of his poorly thought out threat and follow up decisions when the cops told him to give me (a) what I paid for or (b) my money back. I did goto court on the date set, and I did testify against the individual. As is my right. I didn't invite the cops into it, he did. He made the wrong decision when they arrived. -- I would like to apologize for not having offended you yet. Please be patient. I will get to you shortly. |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 1:38:32 PM UTC-4, Tony944 wrote:
* * "trader_4"* wrote in message ... * On Tuesday, April 18, 2017 at 4:30:39 AM UTC-4, Roger wrote: On 04/15/2017 11:07 AM, trader_4 wrote: You come into my store, have a dispute with me, I try to reason with you, we can't agree, so I tell you to leave, you refuse, I call the cops. You refuse the cops order to leave. What happens next? http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-for-absolvin/ The facts are clear: If you want to travel by air, you must agree to do what youre told,Mr. Rowe http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/mike-rowe/said. If you dont, you subject yourself to fine, arrest, constraint, forcible removal, and/or a permanent ban from the friendly skies. Its all there in the fine print. Personally, I support this policy. I support it because I dont want to fly across the country in a steel tube filled with people who get to decide which rules they will follow and which they will ignore, the television host continued. Ive been on too many flights with too many angry people to worry about the specific circumstances of their outrage, or the details of why they took it upon themselves to ignore a direct command. A plane is not a democracy, and the main cabin is no place to organize a sit-in. The main cabin is a place to follow orders, he concluded. * No Airplane is not Democracy it is own by people who pays for it!!! Owned by the people who pays for it? UAL isn't a cooperative or hippie commune. It's a corporation owned by the shareholders. * ***You guys are mixing Cherry and Apples as usual !!!! * ***Old man you need little "Education" if you made Reservation you can not back out it is paid for, unless you have taking Flight Insurance for which you must need to have good reason to back out! There for you own that space, for that reserved time. Try reading the actual ticket terms and conditions that you agree to when you purchase a ticket. |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 3:44:19 PM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:
trader_4 Wed, 19 Apr 2017 16:01:57 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote: On Monday, April 17, 2017 at 8:30:08 PM UTC-4, Diesel wrote: trader_4 Sat, 15 Apr 2017 15:07:10 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote: You come into my store, have a dispute with me, I try to reason with you, we can't agree, so I tell you to leave, you refuse, I call the cops. You refuse the cops order to leave. What happens next? Using your oddball comparison, that depends on whether or not I already paid you for a service or product. Did I get what I paid you for? If not, feel free to call the cops, I will gladly wait on them. Here, atleast, you will be forking either my monies, OR, what I paid you for when they do arrive and have a chat with both of us. The airline was willing to refund the ticket cost. And it's not at all an odd ball comparison. It most certainly is. It's an Apples and Oranges comparison, actually. Why would that be? Both a dispute in a store and a dispute over an airline seat are a civil matter. Otherwise, it's larceny and depending on the amount grand larceny. Nonsense. It's simply a civil dispute. Not here, it isn't. you either render the services I paid you for, or the product I paid you for, or refund my money, or the local police will happily take you to jail and charge you accordingly. It's a civil matter. We don't settle civil cases by putting people in jail. But people do wind up in jail for refusing to leave, refusing management's requests to leave the property, refusing police requests to leave the property. It's then trespass, which is a criminal offense. A dispute over whether you are due a refund is a civil matter, unless it's some very unusual situation, where someone just takes your money without every intending to give you the product you purchased. In the case of UAL, there was a contract. This wasn't some trickster on the street corner. We're not discussing the rules and conditions of an aircraft, We're using the example YOU chose to provide. And again, what happens if you have a dispute with a store over a refund? The kind of dispute that happens thousands of times a day all across America? Others can chime in, but I've yet to see one where the cops came and put the store management in jail. You will fork over what I paid you for, on the spot, or my money as in full refund. Or you, the manager/store owner, is going for a free ride to the jail house. Maybe in your world, but not in the real world. The cops will tell both parties it's a civil matter. No, in the real world, as in, the state of TN, you will refund my money, provide the services I paid you for, or the product, or the cops WILL take you to jail with the charge of larceny or grand larceny if the amount is beyond a certain point. So show us examples of where that happened then. Should be easy to do. I buy a coat from a store with a no refund policy. I show up, demand my money back. The store owner refuses. Show us examples like that where the police arrested the store owner. In all parts of AMerica that I've lived in, the police are not there to hear and decide a civil case. I suppose when parents can't decide who should get the kid the cops just do that too in TN. You are more than welcome to fact check me with your favorite search engine. I wouldn't even begin to try and bull**** you about this. If I give you money for a product and/or services you haven't provided and you won't either refund it, or provide said services/product, it's considered THEFT here and you will be taken to jail. Again, UAL offered the refund, the doc refused. But you will go for a ride in the cop car if you refuse the cops order to leave the property. The cop won't ask me to leave the property until the issue is resolved. Sure, I believe that. Everyone can just demand a refund, demand whatever they think they deserve and stand there on the store's property until hell freezes over. The store's refund policy doesn't matter, any contract's don't matter. Or if they do, then apparently the cops just wade through all that. Go figure. if I paid you and you don't honor your end, the cop will tell you that you HAVE to honor it, or give me my money back. We're not talking about an aircraft here, we're talking specifically about your poorly chosen comparison. IE: a shop keeper. What you can't seem to grasp is that cops are not there to sift through the facts, to hear the evidence, to look at contracts, to decide if there was a contract, and then decide a civil case. I've been there, done that, know from first hand experience how it works here. As a shop keeper in this state, you will do what you were paid to do, or, refund what I paid you. I see and you get to decide whether the shop owner did what he was supposed to do or not. How neat and simple. If you don't, you are going to get a free ride if you decide to get smug and call them. The cop isn't going to ask me to leave as you seem to think. That's NOT how it works here. The cop is going to ask you the shop keeper if I paid you, I say no, then what? Or I say he only paid X, that the transaction for part of it two weeks ago did not go through, etc. And then you say X, Y, Z. You really have cops sitting there, hearing cases, deciding the law? if I have a receipt; it's much easier to prove I did. The cop is going to ask me if I got what I paid for, if I say no, and have that receipt but no proof of taking possession of the item I paid you for, or the services you were supposed to render, the cop WILL tell you to give me the money back, do the services you were hired to do, or, give me the product I already paid you for. If you refuse, you are going to jail with the charge of larceny or grand larceny if the amount exceeds a specific value. Fact check me, I look forward to it. Again, the cops are not there to hear and decide the case. And it's usually not just a matter of having a receipt. As, it's considered to be theft here. Which, by all rights, it most certainly is. When it gets to that stage, cops want you out of there. Not only because the property owner has the right to have you off his property, but because it removes the potential for physical violence and sets a new boundary for who is right and who is wrong. If you come back, you're clearly wrong and guilty of trespass. As with our IT discussion concerning Firefox, you're writing complete ******** on a subject you know nothing about, atleast, in the state of Tennessee. Here, the cops take both sides of the story and make a decision accordingly. I see, so no need for civil courts in TN then. No small claims cases either. Just call the cops and the local patrol officer becomes judge and jury. They do not immediate try to force one party to leave, until they've had a chance to speak to both of them. While the property owner has the right to tell me to leave, he doesn't have the right to keep my money without providing what I paid him for. The problem you fail to grasp is that it's rarely a simple matter of a shop owner taking your money and then, right there, telling you "ha, ha, I have your money, I'm keeping it and giving you nothing". Instead, it's a customer buys something with a store policy of no refunds, or a store policy of only store credits as refunds. The customer changes his mind, demands a cash refund, and the store refuses. There are a thousand scenarios. And the civil courts figure out who's right, who's wrong, what the law is, not the cops. And that is what happened with the UAL incident. Have you read the UAL ticket contract that the doc had? If he does, he's going to jail. It may be different where you live, but, that's how it is here. As a business owner myself, if I don't do what you hired me to do and I refuse to give you your money back, I will be charged for larceny or grand larceny and they will take me to jail. Walmart isn't even exempt from this here. If I have something on layaway and I've paid it off, and you can't for whatever reason give the item(s) to me, and you refuse to give me my money back, you, the walmart employee (unless you can prove that you didn't specifically deal with me previously, ie: shift change), then your supervisor gets to go for a ride in your place. I repeat, I don't have to do the walmarts routine of calling corporate to have it resolved here. The cops will 'resolve' it on the spot on my behalf by taking you to jail. Really? You're telling us the cops are going to read the entire layaway contract, all the terms and conditions? They are knowledgable of the state consumer laws regulating such transactions? They are going to wade through whatever receipts you have, what documentation Walmart has and then they are going to decide the case right there? I don't have to call a corporate number and wait for it to be resolved on their terms. You give me my money back, or, you give me what I paid you for, or, you're going to be taking a ride in the back of a city cruiser. So show us some examples in the news. I've seen this happen, first hand with a customer who had a dispute concerning a layaway purchase. The individual paid it off, and Walmarts employees couldn't provide the items and refused to give the person a refund. They tried the 'call corporate, it's not our problem routine' and it didn't work as they thought it would, here. In that particular case, the employee and the immediate supervisor of that dept was arrested for larceny and taken to jail, because they would not refund the individuals money. The cop gave them the choice of doing a complete refund or goto jail. The customer had his paperwork in proper order. They take theft very seriously in the bible belt, Trader. So show us some examples. Again, what you can't grasp is that whether the "paper" is in order frequently isn't a simple matter and should not be decided by a street cop, even if it is. And I doubt it is, even in TN. I've been involved first hand in another matter where the store owner took my money, did not provide the goods, and called the cops on me for refusing to leave his store. He was arrested and went to jail, that same day, for theft. I was told to go ahead and leave after he was stuffed and cuffed. Which made perfect sense, considering he was already arrested and had to close his mom and pop store down as a result of his poorly thought out threat and follow up decisions when the cops told him to give me (a) what I paid for or (b) my money back. I did goto court on the date set, and I did testify against the individual. As is my right. I didn't invite the cops into it, he did. He made the wrong decision when they arrived. Sure, if some lame store owner is dumb enough to just take your money, laugh at you and say I'm not giving you anything, then that's theft. But that isn't what happens in 99.9% of store disputes. And it's not what happened in the case of UAL either. |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 4:38:04 PM UTC-6, trader_4 wrote:
On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 1:38:32 PM UTC-4, Tony944 wrote: * * "trader_4"* wrote in message ... * On Tuesday, April 18, 2017 at 4:30:39 AM UTC-4, Roger wrote: On 04/15/2017 11:07 AM, trader_4 wrote: You come into my store, have a dispute with me, I try to reason with you, we can't agree, so I tell you to leave, you refuse, I call the cops. You refuse the cops order to leave. What happens next? http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-for-absolvin/ The facts are clear: If you want to travel by air, you must agree to do what youre told,Mr. Rowe http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/mike-rowe/said. If you dont, you subject yourself to fine, arrest, constraint, forcible removal, and/or a permanent ban from the friendly skies. Its all there in the fine print. Personally, I support this policy. I support it because I dont want to fly across the country in a steel tube filled with people who get to decide which rules they will follow and which they will ignore, the television host continued. Ive been on too many flights with too many angry people to worry about the specific circumstances of their outrage, or the details of why they took it upon themselves to ignore a direct command. A plane is not a democracy, and the main cabin is no place to organize a sit-in. The main cabin is a place to follow orders, he concluded. * No Airplane is not Democracy it is own by people who pays for it!!! Owned by the people who pays for it? UAL isn't a cooperative or hippie commune. It's a corporation owned by the shareholders. * ***You guys are mixing Cherry and Apples as usual !!!! * ***Old man you need little "Education" if you made Reservation you can not back out it is paid for, unless you have taking Flight Insurance for which you must need to have good reason to back out! There for you own that space, for that reserved time. Try reading the actual ticket terms and conditions that you agree to when you purchase a ticket. I'm sure that nowhere on any ticket it says that they can manhandle you and drag you off the plane with blood poring out of your mouth. You defend those brutes constantly...I wonder if you would had they assaulted you like that Doctor was. ==== |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/19/2017 6:20 PM, Roy wrote:
On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 4:38:04 PM UTC-6, trader_4 wrote: On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 1:38:32 PM UTC-4, Tony944 wrote: [snip] you must need to have good reason to back out! There for you own that space, for that reserved time. Try reading the actual ticket terms and conditions that you agree to when you purchase a ticket. I'm sure that nowhere on any ticket it says that they can manhandle you and drag you off the plane with blood poring out of your mouth. You defend those brutes constantly...I wonder if you would had they assaulted you like that Doctor was. We can speculate until we're blue in the face and never reach a consensus here. The end of this saga will come when the doctor walks off into the sunset with a buttload of United and the city's money. Just wait for it. On a lighter note, the classical channel on Sirius played a nice rendition of Gershwin's "Rhapsody in Blue" one of my all-time favorites. SWMBO commented at the end. . . "I guess the "Friendly Skies" aren't so friendly anymore!" United had some very nice commercials featuring that work back in the day. Can you imagine the storm of grief reinstating those commercials would bring them now? ;) |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On 4/19/2017 7:20 PM, Roy wrote:
I'm sure that nowhere on any ticket it says that they can manhandle you and drag you off the plane with blood poring out of your mouth. You defend those brutes constantly...I wonder if you would had they assaulted you like that Doctor was. ==== The airline did not touch the doctor. Seems airport security made that decision and carried it out. There are still some unknown facts on what took place early on to get the ball rolling downhill. |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Wed, 19 Apr 2017 16:20:31 -0700 (PDT), Roy
wrote: Try reading the actual ticket terms and conditions that you agree to when you purchase a ticket. I'm sure that nowhere on any ticket it says that they can manhandle you and drag you off the plane with blood poring out of your mouth. You defend those brutes constantly...I wonder if you would had they assaulted you like that Doctor was. Pick your poison. "Sir, you can leave the easy way or the hard way. I still go home at midnight." |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
trader_4
Wed, 19 Apr 2017 23:14:30 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote: [snip] Why would that be? Both a dispute in a store and a dispute over an airline seat are a civil matter. Airlines are subject to different 'rules' than a store owner in a brick/morter. Not here, it isn't. you either render the services I paid you for, or the product I paid you for, or refund my money, or the local police will happily take you to jail and charge you accordingly. It's a civil matter. We don't settle civil cases by putting people in jail. Are you a lawyer as well as an electrical engineer, Trader? Are you well versed on each states laws concerning these matters? In the case of UAL, there was a contract. This wasn't some trickster on the street corner. UAL doesn't have anything to do with your brick and morter store comparison, that you opted for...Different 'rules' apply. We're not discussing the rules and conditions of an aircraft, We're using the example YOU chose to provide. And again, what happens if you have a dispute with a store over a refund? I already addressed this, as far this states concerned about it. You either give me what I paid you for, or you give me a refund. You don't have another option as a store owner in this particular state. Unless you clearly stated that NO REFUNDS applies. No, in the real world, as in, the state of TN, you will refund my money, provide the services I paid you for, or the product, or the cops WILL take you to jail with the charge of larceny or grand larceny if the amount is beyond a certain point. So show us examples of where that happened then. Should be easy to do. I buy a coat from a store with a no refund policy. You're adding new terms to your original comparison, which, as I said previously, is apples and oranges anyhow. If the store has a no refund policy, and I agree to this by doing business there, that's on me. You did NOT specify that when you opted to make the initial comparison. You seem to have a tendency to change things as it suits you. Why might that be? I show up, demand my money back. The store owner refuses. As is his/her right under the no refund policy that I agreed to when I did business there. Which, isn't what you wrote about, initially. I suppose when parents can't decide who should get the kid the cops just do that too in TN. Interesting how we go from an airplanes policies and the rules it has to follow via FAA to a brick a morter store and then a brick and morter store with a no refund policy, to what happens if parents have an issue and kids are involved. In this state, cops do have the right to remove a child and temporarily place them in the care of the other parent until child protective services arrives and makes a temporary decision, which is finalized when it goes to court. You asked, so... In the state of TN, as a parent, unless you petition the court, you do not have actual 'rights' as you might think to your own kid. That kid is a ward of the state, states property. Not yours. I'd suggest before you dig yourself another big hole about subjects you actually know nothing about, you do a little research on the state of TN specifically. If you're a parent, the results will ****ing terrify you. Also, another difference between this state and the ones you're likely used to. An employer doesn't require *any* reason to fire you. They can, whenever they like, they don't need a reason, by law here. http://www.wrongfulterminationlaws.c.../tennessee.htm Have you recently lost your job? If so, you might be wondering whether you have grounds for a wrongful termination lawsuit. In Tennessee, as in other states, employees work at will. This means an employee can generally be fired at any time and for any reason, or for no reason at all. You are more than welcome to fact check me with your favorite search engine. I wouldn't even begin to try and bull**** you about this. If I give you money for a product and/or services you haven't provided and you won't either refund it, or provide said services/product, it's considered THEFT here and you will be taken to jail. Again, UAL offered the refund, the doc refused. As was his right. he already paid for the seat, it's not his fault UAL overbooked the flight. And, that has nothing to do with your brick morter store comparison for this state, anyway. But you will go for a ride in the cop car if you refuse the cops order to leave the property. The cop won't ask me to leave the property until the issue is resolved. Sure, I believe that. Everyone can just demand a refund, demand whatever they think they deserve and stand there on the store's property until hell freezes over. The store's refund policy doesn't matter, any contract's don't matter. Or if they do, then apparently the cops just wade through all that. Go figure. You said nothing about any refund policy when you made your initial comparison. Not only are you moving the goal posts, but that does change things, significantly in this state. if I paid you and you don't honor your end, the cop will tell you that you HAVE to honor it, or give me my money back. We're not talking about an aircraft here, we're talking specifically about your poorly chosen comparison. IE: a shop keeper. What you can't seem to grasp is that cops are not there to sift through the facts, to hear the evidence, to look at contracts, to decide if there was a contract, and then decide a civil case. What you seem to have severe difficulty grasping the concept of is how the state of TNs laws are written concerning brick and morter stores. Unless you have a sign clearly posted concerning no refunds, you are NOT in the clear denying me what I paid for. If I don't ask for a refund, but want what I paid for, short of you having something in the store clearly indicating you will substitute for an equal/greater value product, You will give me what I paid for, or you will face a larceny/grand larceny charge. I do NOT have to accept a refund because you didn't actually have the product you advertised for sale. It gets even more interesting though... If you have something on a store shelf for a certain price, but your cash register rings it up for a higher amount, You're legally obligated to sell it to me at the advertised price, even if you or an employee ****ed up and put the wrong price on the item. Otherwise, it's considered to be false advertising. Sometimes, the customer is understanding and won't take full advantage of the stores screwup, but, they have the legal right to do so, if they want. I've been there, done that, know from first hand experience how it works here. As a shop keeper in this state, you will do what you were paid to do, or, refund what I paid you. I see and you get to decide whether the shop owner did what he was supposed to do or not. How neat and simple. In some aspects, as written about above, yes. If you don't, you are going to get a free ride if you decide to get smug and call them. The cop isn't going to ask me to leave as you seem to think. That's NOT how it works here. The cop is going to ask you the shop keeper if I paid you, I say no, then what? That's what the receipt is for. If the cop finds out you lied to him or, mislead him, accidently or otherwise, because you forgot I had the receipt, that's an additional charge. Or I say he only paid X, that the transaction for part of it two weeks ago did not go through, etc. And then you say X, Y, Z. You better have something in the records or on paper disputing what the receipt I have says if you try that route, or, again, you're lying to an officer and catching yet another charge for your trouble. You really have cops sitting there, hearing cases, deciding the law? Cops make those decisions all the time. Who to arrest and what to charge them with. The lawyers and followup court proceedings iron out the details. Either way, it's a losing deal for you. Even if you eventually win your case, you still lost time having to goto court, and time is money. Which you will not, in most cases, be reimbursed for, here. if I have a receipt; it's much easier to prove I did. The cop is going to ask me if I got what I paid for, if I say no, and have that receipt but no proof of taking possession of the item I paid you for, or the services you were supposed to render, the cop WILL tell you to give me the money back, do the services you were hired to do, or, give me the product I already paid you for. If you refuse, you are going to jail with the charge of larceny or grand larceny if the amount exceeds a specific value. Fact check me, I look forward to it. Again, the cops are not there to hear and decide the case. And it's usually not just a matter of having a receipt. You clearly have no knowledge of this state and the laws concerning purchases... I invited you to go ahead and fact check me for a reason, Trader. Note, I never said I completely agreed with how things are done here, but, it is how things are done here and I have no control over it. As with our IT discussion concerning Firefox, you're writing complete ******** on a subject you know nothing about, atleast, in the state of Tennessee. Here, the cops take both sides of the story and make a decision accordingly. I see, so no need for civil courts in TN then. No small claims cases either. Just call the cops and the local patrol officer becomes judge and jury. That isn't what I wrote, Trader. An arrest is an arrest. You'll goto jail, you'll lose time, You'll spend money with a bondsman to bond out of jail (that you most likely will not be able to recover) You'll have to hire a lawyer, etc. It's a losing situation for the shop keeper here. The laws are slanted a bit in the customers favor, usually. The only exception is a clearly stated, no refunds/store credit only policy. And, if I do business with you, I'm automatically agreeing to those terms without any recourse. Because, I knew about your policy and chose to do business with you anyway. OTH, if that policy is buried in the fine print on the back of my receipt (that I won't get unless I make a purchase with you) it won't hold up in court, because I didn't know about it, beforehand. Really? You're telling us [snip] I told you, invited you even, to go ahead and fact check me for yourself. I do NOT expect you to just take my word for it. [snip] And I doubt it is, even in TN. What you doubt won't help you in this state. As they like to point out, ignorance of the laws as it applies to this state is no excuse. Lesson of the day, pay attention to all posted signs in the store, BEFORE you do business there. Sure, if some lame store owner is dumb enough to just take your money, laugh at you and say I'm not giving you anything, then that's theft. We finally agree, then. But that isn't what happens in 99.9% of store disputes. I wouldn't know what happens 99.9% of the time in stores outside of this state, I typically don't shop at brick and morters outside the state lines. Whatever percentage off the item I'm looking for is lost due to the additional fuel spent getting there and returning home. And it's not what happened in the case of UAL either. Which has nothing to do with your apples and oranges comparison, either. -- I would like to apologize for not having offended you yet. Please be patient. I will get to you shortly. |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 7:28:33 AM UTC-5, Kurt V. Ullman wrote:
On 4/15/17 8:09 AM, Andy wrote: He refused, so they removed him. Police had no probable cause to remove a paying passenger. You don't need prbable cause to remove a person from somenone's property. All you need is a complaint from the owner. Right. Like an apt. owner can evict a paying tenant. :-) |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 7:20:35 PM UTC-4, Roy wrote:
On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 4:38:04 PM UTC-6, trader_4 wrote: On Wednesday, April 19, 2017 at 1:38:32 PM UTC-4, Tony944 wrote: * * "trader_4"* wrote in message ... * On Tuesday, April 18, 2017 at 4:30:39 AM UTC-4, Roger wrote: On 04/15/2017 11:07 AM, trader_4 wrote: You come into my store, have a dispute with me, I try to reason with you, we can't agree, so I tell you to leave, you refuse, I call the cops. You refuse the cops order to leave. What happens next? http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...-for-absolvin/ The facts are clear: If you want to travel by air, you must agree to do what youre told,Mr. Rowe http://www.washingtontimes.com/topics/mike-rowe/said. If you dont, you subject yourself to fine, arrest, constraint, forcible removal, and/or a permanent ban from the friendly skies. Its all there in the fine print. Personally, I support this policy. I support it because I dont want to fly across the country in a steel tube filled with people who get to decide which rules they will follow and which they will ignore, the television host continued. Ive been on too many flights with too many angry people to worry about the specific circumstances of their outrage, or the details of why they took it upon themselves to ignore a direct command. A plane is not a democracy, and the main cabin is no place to organize a sit-in. The main cabin is a place to follow orders, he concluded. * No Airplane is not Democracy it is own by people who pays for it!!! Owned by the people who pays for it? UAL isn't a cooperative or hippie commune. It's a corporation owned by the shareholders. * ***You guys are mixing Cherry and Apples as usual !!!! * ***Old man you need little "Education" if you made Reservation you can not back out it is paid for, unless you have taking Flight Insurance for which you must need to have good reason to back out! There for you own that space, for that reserved time. Try reading the actual ticket terms and conditions that you agree to when you purchase a ticket. I'm sure that nowhere on any ticket it says that they can manhandle you and drag you off the plane with blood poring out of your mouth. You defend those brutes constantly...I wonder if you would had they assaulted you like that Doctor was. ==== I would not be bloodied because I would have complied with the flight crew. If I was a doc and really had to be with patients the next morning, then I might have stood up, explained that to the other passengers to see if someone else would volunteer. But if that didn't work, I would have left the plane. And for sure when ordered to leave by the police, I would have complied. You know of any instances when police have been called to a plane, ordered a passenger off, they refused and they remained? And if being with patients was so important, his destination was a 4 1/2 hour drive. Using his method, did he get to be with those patients? |
Police drag passenger from United Airlines plane
On Thursday, April 20, 2017 at 3:48:57 AM UTC-4, Diesel wrote:
trader_4 Wed, 19 Apr 2017 23:14:30 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote: [snip] Why would that be? Both a dispute in a store and a dispute over an airline seat are a civil matter. Airlines are subject to different 'rules' than a store owner in a brick/morter. So what? We all know that. It's still a CIVIL case matter. Not here, it isn't. you either render the services I paid you for, or the product I paid you for, or refund my money, or the local police will happily take you to jail and charge you accordingly. It's a civil matter. We don't settle civil cases by putting people in jail. Are you a lawyer as well as an electrical engineer, Trader? Are you well versed on each states laws concerning these matters? You're the one claiming that a dispute over an airline ticket or a store purchase is a criminal matter that the police settle on the spot, using theft laws. Show us the law and case history on that. Sure, I can see the exceptional case, where some nut sells you something with no intention of actually delivering what they promised and they admit to that to the police when you call them. Then it would be theft. But that clearly isn't what went on with UAL, nor is it the typical similar case in a store, where a customer disagrees with the store over a purchase, a defective item, a return, etc. I've yet to see or hear of one of those being settled by the cops taking the store owner to jail. In the case of UAL, there was a contract. This wasn't some trickster on the street corner. UAL doesn't have anything to do with your brick and morter store comparison, that you opted for...Different 'rules' apply. So what, it's still a CIVIL matter and I've yet to see cops wade through the various "rules" to decide a civil matter. It's not how things work in America for obvious reasons. We're not discussing the rules and conditions of an aircraft, We're using the example YOU chose to provide. And again, what happens if you have a dispute with a store over a refund? I already addressed this, as far this states concerned about it. You either give me what I paid you for, or you give me a refund. And again, UAL offered the refund plus $800! And as to giving you what you paid for, who decides when that has to be completed or if it was or was not accomplished? The cops? Say you buy something and pay for it at a store. They tell you it will be in next week. You go there on Wed and it's not there. Now what? You call the cops and the store owner goes to jail unless he gives it to you or gives you a refund right there? You call the cops. The store owner now says that he didn't guarantee that it would be there Wed or even this week at all. And that the sale was non-refundable. So, the cops take him to jail? That's how it works in TN? Not here or anywhere else I've lived. The cops will tell you it's a CIVIL matter and to either wait or file in small claims. You don't have another option as a store owner in this particular state. Unless you clearly stated that NO REFUNDS applies. And of course the vast majority of stores do have return policies and follow them. UAL was apparently following the terms of it's policy that the doc agreed to when buying the ticket. You claim they were not, so show us where in the ticket terms and conditions it guarantees you a seat for that flight on that day. No, in the real world, as in, the state of TN, you will refund my money, provide the services I paid you for, or the product, or the cops WILL take you to jail with the charge of larceny or grand larceny if the amount is beyond a certain point. So show us examples of where that happened then. Should be easy to do. I buy a coat from a store with a no refund policy. You're adding new terms to your original comparison, which, as I said previously, is apples and oranges anyhow. If the store has a no refund policy, and I agree to this by doing business there, that's on me. You did NOT specify that when you opted to make the initial comparison. You seem to have a tendency to change things as it suits you. Why might that be? You have a tendency to not understand things and be able to put them in context. The doc had a dispute with the airline over his ticket, it's terms, what he was entitled to. I simply compared that to what happens in stores across the country every day. Lots of customers wind up in a dispute with a store over a purchase, a defective product, a return, etc. And what happens in those cases when a customer doesn't get his way, the store owner orders them out, the cops are called and they refuse to leave? YOU claimed that the cops will put take the store owner to jail if they don't give the customer what he's demanding or a refund. Clearly that isn't what happens in almost all those cases, because it;s a civil matter, not criminal. I show up, demand my money back. The store owner refuses. As is his/her right under the no refund policy that I agreed to when I did business there. Which, isn't what you wrote about, initially. What I actually wrote: " You come into my store, have a dispute with me, I try to reason with you, we can't agree, so I tell you to leave, you refuse, I call the cops. You refuse the cops order to leave. What happens next? " You are more than welcome to fact check me with your favorite search engine. I wouldn't even begin to try and bull**** you about this. If I give you money for a product and/or services you haven't provided and you won't either refund it, or provide said services/product, it's considered THEFT here and you will be taken to jail. Again, UAL offered the refund, the doc refused. As was his right. he already paid for the seat, it's not his fault UAL overbooked the flight. And, that has nothing to do with your brick morter store comparison for this state, anyway. Now you're changing the story you just told. You claimed that in TN, if someone doesn't get what they want, the store owner has to deliver the product or give them a refund or the cops take the owner to jail on the spot. Now, you're implying that the customer doesn't have to accept the refund? That they can still stay there and defy the store owner and the police? The owner says I don't have that in stock, so he goes to jail? But you will go for a ride in the cop car if you refuse the cops order to leave the property. The cop won't ask me to leave the property until the issue is resolved. Sure, I believe that. Everyone can just demand a refund, demand whatever they think they deserve and stand there on the store's property until hell freezes over. The store's refund policy doesn't matter, any contract's don't matter. Or if they do, then apparently the cops just wade through all that. Go figure. You said nothing about any refund policy when you made your initial comparison. Not only are you moving the goal posts, but that does change things, significantly in this state. That's right, I said a customer has a dispute with a store owner, just like the doc had his big dispute with the airline. It happens every day and it's a civil matter. And the more complex the transaction, the more contract terms and conditions there are, the harder it is to decide who's right and who's wrong. And cops are not equipped to make that decision, nor is it their function. It's a civil court matter. if I paid you and you don't honor your end, the cop will tell you that you HAVE to honor it, or give me my money back. We're not talking about an aircraft here, we're talking specifically about your poorly chosen comparison. IE: a shop keeper. What you can't seem to grasp is that cops are not there to sift through the facts, to hear the evidence, to look at contracts, to decide if there was a contract, and then decide a civil case. What you seem to have severe difficulty grasping the concept of is how the state of TNs laws are written concerning brick and morter stores. Unless you have a sign clearly posted concerning no refunds, you are NOT in the clear denying me what I paid for. What you don't understand is that the cops don't decide what the terms of the sale are, figure out if the store's policies are in compliance with the law, figure out if you've gotten what you paid for or not. That is determined in civil court, unless it's an obvious case of intentional fraud. The airplane ticket contract is complex. Are you telling us that if you signed a contract for installation of windows, that involved ordering the windows, then installing them, that you can go into the window store, create a dispute, the store owner has had enough, tells you to get out, so you call the cops and they determine who's right, who's wrong on the spot, arrest the store owner because it's Friday and the windows haven't arrived? Please, show us some news examples of all these store owners being hauled off to jail. Waiting...... |
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