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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

Most of the houses in my neighborhood were built in the late 19th or
early 20th century.


Recently someone totally rebuilt a house near here, they stripped it
down to the 2 x 4's and rebuilt...they even put in a new foundation.

At first I wondered why they did not raze it entirely until I realized
the old style 2 x 4's are superior to the ones used today.

They actually measure 2" x 4" and use better wood that today's soft pine.

My question is: what kind of wood was actually used.

It's denser than soft pine but not actual hardwood, though it is
sometimes referred to as such.
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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 7:40:52 AM UTC-4, philo wrote:
Most of the houses in my neighborhood were built in the late 19th or
early 20th century.


Recently someone totally rebuilt a house near here, they stripped it
down to the 2 x 4's and rebuilt...they even put in a new foundation.

At first I wondered why they did not raze it entirely until I realized
the old style 2 x 4's are superior to the ones used today.

They actually measure 2" x 4" and use better wood that today's soft pine.

My question is: what kind of wood was actually used.

It's denser than soft pine but not actual hardwood, though it is
sometimes referred to as such.


The framing in my house (built in 1948) is white cedar. Smells like
sharpening pencils when you cut it.

Cindy Hamilton
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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On 03/19/2017 06:54 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 7:40:52 AM UTC-4, philo wrote:
Most of the houses in my neighborhood were built in the late 19th or
early 20th century.


Recently someone totally rebuilt a house near here, they stripped it
down to the 2 x 4's and rebuilt...they even put in a new foundation.

At first I wondered why they did not raze it entirely until I realized
the old style 2 x 4's are superior to the ones used today.

They actually measure 2" x 4" and use better wood that today's soft pine.

My question is: what kind of wood was actually used.

It's denser than soft pine but not actual hardwood, though it is
sometimes referred to as such.


The framing in my house (built in 1948) is white cedar. Smells like
sharpening pencils when you cut it.

Cindy Hamilton



My grandparents had their house built in 1948 also.
I believe the end of the war housing boom was when the builders started
using the lower grade soft pine.

I recall my grandmother telling me the builder used the better grade
lumber because all the soft pine in the area was already snapped up by
other builders.


My house was built in 1898 and will probably be around for a while...

I am living at a time where I actually see buildings less than 50 years
old being demolished.
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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 06:40:44 -0500, philo wrote:

Most of the houses in my neighborhood were built in the late 19th or
early 20th century.


Recently someone totally rebuilt a house near here, they stripped it
down to the 2 x 4's and rebuilt...they even put in a new foundation.

At first I wondered why they did not raze it entirely until I realized
the old style 2 x 4's are superior to the ones used today.

They actually measure 2" x 4" and use better wood that today's soft pine.

My question is: what kind of wood was actually used.

It's denser than soft pine but not actual hardwood, though it is
sometimes referred to as such.

Many were built using "local lumber".Others used Douglas Fir or old
growth white pine, or even old growth spruce.
The "local lumber" could be anything from jack pine to white cedar to
elm, maple, chestnut ash, or Gumwood.. Some of the wood used for
framing back then would be good for high end trim today!!
My shed is all "mixed hardwood", some of it 2 1/2 X 4 - originally
used as pallets for sheet metal
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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On 03/19/2017 08:12 AM, philo wrote:
My grandparents had their house built in 1948 also.
I believe the end of the war housing boom was when the builders
started using the lower grade soft pine.

I recall my grandmother telling me the builder used the better grade
lumber because all the soft pine in the area was already snapped up by
other builders.


My house was built in 1898 and will probably be around for a while...

I am living at a time where I actually see buildings less than 50
years old being demolished.



Ever notice free government public housing for welfare democrats lasts
less than 30 years before it's demolished?

OTOH, republican taxpayer farmers will take care of their homes and pass
them on for many generations.



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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On 03/19/2017 07:59 AM, Oliver Douglas wrote:

snip

Ever notice free government public housing for welfare democrats lasts
less than 30 years before it's demolished?

OTOH, republican taxpayer farmers will take care of their homes and pass
them on for many generations.



LOL you sure got that exactly WRONG, the three examples I was thinking
of when I posted we

1) Allen Bradly was a large local electronics firm that is now owned by
Rockwell. The very generous Allen Bradly family donated millions of
dollars to build a sports center, 35 years ago.

It mainly caters to the wealthy suburbanites just outside of Milwaukee
County. (The sports center is in downtown Milwaukee)

It has now been decided that it's too old and a new one is being
constructed and paid for by the taxpayers of Milwaukee. A special
freeway ramp is even being built so the wealthy suburbanites can come
into the city, watch their game and head back out to the suburbs.
If anyone else would even think of having an event in downtown Milwaukee
on the same night as a sports event, forget it.
Parking which is normally $10 for 24 hours is now up to $70!!!

The 35 year old sports center will then be demolished


2) In the mid 60's, my uncle who was a wealthy businessman had a
beautiful house built . It's reminiscent of a design by Frank LLoyd
Wright or Eero Saarinen . When my uncle died my aunt sold the house and
later learned the new owner only wanted the land, the house was
demolished and replaced by a McMansion.

Beautiful 50 year old house demolished


3) Of the same vintage (approx 50 years old) is the Milwaukee Museum,
considered one of the best in the country. Now it's not good enough,
supposedly the storage are is too leaky. The city is going to build a
new one...cost the the taxpayers $100 million.



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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On 3/19/17 7:59 AM, Oliver Douglas wrote:

Ever notice free government public housing for welfare democrats lasts
less than 30 years before it's demolished?



OTOH, republican taxpayer farmers will take care of their homes and pass
them on for many generations.


The federal government has had subsidy programs for farmers
going back to the 1930s. The story I've been told is the feds wanted
to keep the farmers down on the farm
to avoid having them in the cities competing for jobs during the
Depression.
https://www.fsa.usda.gov/about-fsa/structure-and-organization/commodity-credit-corporation/index
The programs used to involve the farmer idling some ground in return
for the government help. The requirement to idle ground was eliminated
with the Freedom to Farm Act passed in the later 1990s.
I haven't seen any farmers walking on water. Some of the places
are immaculate considering the environment. Others are dumps, with
junk and weeds everywhere.
I've been on or around farms for six decades and have indirectly
benefited from the
government programs. My livelihood still depends on farmers.
The first house I grew up in used some of the old, real 2x4s.
The builders didn't waste anything. They nailed one 2x4 to another one
if the first one was too short.
The walls mostly plaster. One room had some softer material that I
forget the name of.



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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On 03/19/2017 8:27 AM, philo wrote:
....

They actually measure 2" x 4" and use better wood that today's soft
pine.

My question is: what kind of wood was actually used.

It's denser than soft pine but not actual hardwood, though it is
sometimes referred to as such.

Many were built using "local lumber".Others used Douglas Fir or old
growth white pine, or even old growth spruce.
The "local lumber" could be anything from jack pine to white cedar to
elm, maple, chestnut ash, or Gumwood.. Some of the wood used for
framing back then would be good for high end trim today!!
My shed is all "mixed hardwood", some of it 2 1/2 X 4 - originally
used as pallets for sheet metal




Thanks for the good answer. I know the old wood has a lot of value.


Depends greatly on location as the above implies; much framing lumber
even as early as before/around WW I was SYP except it was first-cut
rather than "plantation-grown" as is most all today. As such it has a
much finer grain pattern and typically is also from much larger logs so
has a higher percentage of heartwood vis a vis sapwood.

There was no native lumber out here on the High Plains; the barn and
house were built in early '10s to about 1920 when rationing after WW I
was lifted. They're all SYP, also full dimension, and there are
built-up columns in the loft of the barn of 3 2x6 that are 24-ft in
length. I've looked at some of them carefully while we were doing the
repair/restoration/re-roof and there are a few that appear to be
knot-free over that entire length...

We built a set of bins in the loft in the late '50s for a small feed
mill, the framing lumber for it came from west coast instead of east and
is Doug fir. There are some leftover 2x12-20 still stacked up there
that are also clear; I've no idea what one of them might cost today! I
haven't yet found a project that justifies cutting one of them. since
I've been back... They're the 5/8"-over era instead of full
dimension before the pare-back to the current 1/2". Nice for the extra
"beef" for strength but a pita for matching up for doubling up as you've
got an extra eighth or quarter-inch to make up, depending...

But, the general tenor is true; the quality of framing lumber these days
is far inferior and it is mostly owing simply to there no longer being
the virgin timber stands to harvest and so it comes from mostly
faster-growing species and plantation-grown stands that simply don't
produce the same wood properties.

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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On 03/19/2017 09:25 AM, philo wrote:
LOL you sure got that exactly WRONG, the three examples I was thinking
of when I posted we

1) Allen Bradly was a large local electronics firm that is now owned
by Rockwell. The very generous Allen Bradly family donated millions of
dollars to build a sports center, 35 years ago.

It mainly caters to the wealthy suburbanites just outside of Milwaukee
County. (The sports center is in downtown Milwaukee)

It has now been decided that it's too old and a new one is being
constructed and paid for by the taxpayers of Milwaukee. A special
freeway ramp is even being built so the wealthy suburbanites can come
into the city, watch their game and head back out to the suburbs.
If anyone else would even think of having an event in downtown
Milwaukee on the same night as a sports event, forget it.
Parking which is normally $10 for 24 hours is now up to $70!!!


There's often a lot of intolerant democrats at public sporting events.
Intolerant democrats often riot when things don't go their way. Raising
the price of admission often keeps the intolerant democrats out.


The 35 year old sports center will then be demolished


2) In the mid 60's, my uncle who was a wealthy businessman had a
beautiful house built . It's reminiscent of a design by Frank LLoyd
Wright or Eero Saarinen . When my uncle died my aunt sold the house
and later learned the new owner only wanted the land, the house was
demolished and replaced by a McMansion.

Beautiful 50 year old house demolished


You just unwittingly made my point. Your aunt's privately owned house
was in excellent condition when she sold it. The new owner obviously
didn't like the style but liked the neighborhood. No tax dollars involved.



3) Of the same vintage (approx 50 years old) is the Milwaukee Museum,
considered one of the best in the country. Now it's not good enough,
supposedly the storage are is too leaky. The city is going to build a
new one...cost the the taxpayers $100 million.



Preserving history is important. If the museum has valuable pieces, they
need a secure and dry building. Hopefully the new museum will be
fireproof in case some intolerant welfare democrats decide to protest
and burn the neighborhood down.




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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 7:40:52 AM UTC-4, philo wrote:
Most of the houses in my neighborhood were built in the late 19th or
early 20th century.


Recently someone totally rebuilt a house near here, they stripped it
down to the 2 x 4's and rebuilt...they even put in a new foundation.

At first I wondered why they did not raze it entirely until I realized
the old style 2 x 4's are superior to the ones used today.

They actually measure 2" x 4" and use better wood that today's soft pine.

My question is: what kind of wood was actually used.

It's denser than soft pine but not actual hardwood, though it is
sometimes referred to as such.


IDK what they used back then, but 2x4s today are not pine, they are Douglas Fir.
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On 03/19/2017 9:39 AM, trader_4 wrote:
....

IDK what they used back then, but 2x4s today are not pine, they are Douglas Fir.


Only if you're in the western US or Canada (or Japan/China where most
Doug fir is exported to)...the kids in the lumber yards around here
don't even know what "Doug fur" is; some kind of pet, maybe???

--

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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 08:25:29 -0500
philo wrote:

philo



snip self promoting big headed word wall

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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 07:39:42 -0700 (PDT)
trader_4 wrote:

On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 7:40:52 AM UTC-4, philo wrote:
Most of the houses in my neighborhood were built in the late 19th
or early 20th century.


Recently someone totally rebuilt a house near here, they stripped
it down to the 2 x 4's and rebuilt...they even put in a new
foundation.

At first I wondered why they did not raze it entirely until I
realized the old style 2 x 4's are superior to the ones used today.

They actually measure 2" x 4" and use better wood that today's soft
pine.

My question is: what kind of wood was actually used.

It's denser than soft pine but not actual hardwood, though it is
sometimes referred to as such.


IDK what they used back then, but 2x4s today are not pine, they are
Douglas Fir.


Wrong again bucko.
You really should STFU most days or research better.
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On 3/19/2017 8:53 AM, dpb wrote:
On 03/19/2017 8:27 AM, philo wrote:
...

They actually measure 2" x 4" and use better wood that today's soft
pine.

My question is: what kind of wood was actually used.

It's denser than soft pine but not actual hardwood, though it is
sometimes referred to as such.
Many were built using "local lumber".Others used Douglas Fir or old
growth white pine, or even old growth spruce.
The "local lumber" could be anything from jack pine to white cedar to
elm, maple, chestnut ash, or Gumwood.. Some of the wood used for
framing back then would be good for high end trim today!!
My shed is all "mixed hardwood", some of it 2 1/2 X 4 - originally
used as pallets for sheet metal




Thanks for the good answer. I know the old wood has a lot of value.


Depends greatly on location as the above implies; much framing lumber
even as early as before/around WW I was SYP except it was first-cut
rather than "plantation-grown" as is most all today. As such it has a
much finer grain pattern and typically is also from much larger logs so
has a higher percentage of heartwood vis a vis sapwood.

There was no native lumber out here on the High Plains; the barn and
house were built in early '10s to about 1920 when rationing after WW I
was lifted. They're all SYP, also full dimension, and there are
built-up columns in the loft of the barn of 3 2x6 that are 24-ft in
length. I've looked at some of them carefully while we were doing the
repair/restoration/re-roof and there are a few that appear to be
knot-free over that entire length...

We built a set of bins in the loft in the late '50s for a small feed
mill, the framing lumber for it came from west coast instead of east and
is Doug fir. There are some leftover 2x12-20 still stacked up there
that are also clear; I've no idea what one of them might cost today! I
haven't yet found a project that justifies cutting one of them. since
I've been back... They're the 5/8"-over era instead of full
dimension before the pare-back to the current 1/2". Nice for the extra
"beef" for strength but a pita for matching up for doubling up as you've
got an extra eighth or quarter-inch to make up, depending...

But, the general tenor is true; the quality of framing lumber these days
is far inferior and it is mostly owing simply to there no longer being
the virgin timber stands to harvest and so it comes from mostly
faster-growing species and plantation-grown stands that simply don't
produce the same wood properties.


We've been watching a show called Barn Wood Builders. They take apart
old barns and often re-build them elsewhere for people, and they're
turned into modern buildings. Interesting show. Some of those barns
they disassemble are gigantic!

--
Maggie


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On 03/19/2017 08:50 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 3/19/17 7:59 AM, Oliver Douglas wrote:

Ever notice free government public housing for welfare democrats lasts
less than 30 years before it's demolished?



OTOH, republican taxpayer farmers will take care of their homes and pass
them on for many generations.


The federal government has had subsidy programs for farmers going
back to the 1930s. The story I've been told is the feds wanted to keep
the farmers down on the farm
to avoid having them in the cities competing for jobs during the
Depression.
https://www.fsa.usda.gov/about-fsa/structure-and-organization/commodity-credit-corporation/index

The programs used to involve the farmer idling some ground in return
for the government help. The requirement to idle ground was eliminated
with the Freedom to Farm Act passed in the later 1990s.
I haven't seen any farmers walking on water. Some of the places
are immaculate considering the environment. Others are dumps, with
junk and weeds everywhere.
I've been on or around farms for six decades and have indirectly
benefited from the
government programs. My livelihood still depends on farmers.
The first house I grew up in used some of the old, real 2x4s. The
builders didn't waste anything. They nailed one 2x4 to another one if
the first one was too short.
The walls mostly plaster. One room had some softer material that I
forget the name of.






I still recall back in the 50's seeing carpenters pulling nails and
straightening them out with a hammer for re-use.

Heck I still do that too.
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On 03/19/2017 09:43 AM, dpb wrote:
On 03/19/2017 9:39 AM, trader_4 wrote:
...

IDK what they used back then, but 2x4s today are not pine, they are
Douglas Fir.


Only if you're in the western US or Canada (or Japan/China where most
Doug fir is exported to)...the kids in the lumber yards around here
don't even know what "Doug fur" is; some kind of pet, maybe???



I live in Wisconsin which still has a lumber industry, I guess it would
be easy enough to check

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On 3/19/17 9:25 AM, philo wrote:
On 03/19/2017 07:59 AM, Oliver Douglas wrote:

snip

Ever notice free government public housing for welfare democrats lasts
less than 30 years before it's demolished?

OTOH, republican taxpayer farmers will take care of their homes and pass
them on for many generations.



LOL you sure got that exactly WRONG, the three examples I was thinking
of when I posted we

1) Allen Bradly was a large local electronics firm that is now owned by
Rockwell. The very generous Allen Bradly family donated millions of
dollars to build a sports center, 35 years ago.

It mainly caters to the wealthy suburbanites just outside of Milwaukee
County. (The sports center is in downtown Milwaukee)

It has now been decided that it's too old and a new one is being
constructed and paid for by the taxpayers of Milwaukee. A special
freeway ramp is even being built so the wealthy suburbanites can come
into the city, watch their game and head back out to the suburbs.
If anyone else would even think of having an event in downtown Milwaukee
on the same night as a sports event, forget it.
Parking which is normally $10 for 24 hours is now up to $70!!!

The 35 year old sports center will then be demolished




Yep, the Georgia Dome in downtown Atlanta which was completed 25 years
ago in 1992 will be demolished this year.

Magnificent stadium, seats 70,000+, largest cable-supported fabric
stadium roof in the county, all seats with unobstructed view of the
field. Most Atlantans love the facility. Former home of the Atlanta Falcons.

But Falcons owner Arthur Blank arm-twisted the local politicians into
building him a nice new tax payer financed stadium under threat of
moving the team to the burbs- as the Atlanta Braves just did, abandoning
Turner Field, downtown site of the 1996 Olympics stadium.

The Georgia Dome is being replaced by Mercedes-Benz Stadium, under
construction right next door.
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On 3/19/17 10:49 AM, Muggles wrote:
On 3/19/2017 8:53 AM, dpb wrote:
On 03/19/2017 8:27 AM, philo wrote:
...


SNIP


We've been watching a show called Barn Wood Builders. They take apart
old barns and often re-build them elsewhere for people, and they're
turned into modern buildings. Interesting show. Some of those barns
they disassemble are gigantic!


Had to be- cows were a lot bigger back then.

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On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 8:59:41 AM UTC-4, Oliver Douglas wrote:
On 03/19/2017 08:12 AM, philo wrote:
My grandparents had their house built in 1948 also.
I believe the end of the war housing boom was when the builders
started using the lower grade soft pine.

I recall my grandmother telling me the builder used the better grade
lumber because all the soft pine in the area was already snapped up by
other builders.


My house was built in 1898 and will probably be around for a while...

I am living at a time where I actually see buildings less than 50
years old being demolished.



Ever notice free government public housing for welfare democrats lasts
less than 30 years before it's demolished?


Low bidder.

OTOH, republican taxpayer farmers will take care of their homes and pass
them on for many generations.


Republican taxpayer farmers built their own houses, so of course they
built to last. I've lived in some poorly built houses, poorly built
apartments, and very well built dorm when I was at college. My
current house was built by a stonemason who built it to live in
himself. It's going to be here long after I'm gone.

I hope I'll be dead before it needs repointing. The mortar is
beautifully struck and it would cost a fortune to replace.

Cindy Hamilton


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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

Most of the houses in my neighborhood were built in the late 19th or
early 20th century.
Recently someone totally rebuilt a house near here, they stripped it
down to the 2 x 4's and rebuilt...they even put in a new foundation.
At first I wondered why they did not raze it entirely until I realized
the old style 2 x 4's are superior to the ones used today.
They actually measure 2" x 4" and use better wood that today's soft pine.
My question is: what kind of wood was actually used.
It's denser than soft pine but not actual hardwood, though it is
sometimes referred to as such.


It's probably just whatever wood was plentiful in your area. Around here
that would be Douglas Fir or Hemlock (often referred to collectively as
"hemfir").

The older wood was typically old growth trees that had much finer and
tighter grain than the new lumber you find today.

The wood has probably gotten harder from drying out for 100 years also.

My in-laws house has the old 2x4 studs. The worst part about working with
the old rough cut lumber is the splinters!

I found a few old 8x8 beams in their basement while we were working. I
don't know if they were extras leftover from construction, or if someone
removed them from somewhere at some point. I resawed them into boards and
built a nice bookshelf for my mother-in-law. Nice looking wood for
"construction" lumber.

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com
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On 03/19/2017 09:59 AM, Fast Eddie wrote:
snip


Yep, the Georgia Dome in downtown Atlanta which was completed 25 years
ago in 1992 will be demolished this year.

Magnificent stadium, seats 70,000+, largest cable-supported fabric
stadium roof in the county, all seats with unobstructed view of the
field. Most Atlantans love the facility. Former home of the Atlanta
Falcons.

But Falcons owner Arthur Blank arm-twisted the local politicians into
building him a nice new tax payer financed stadium under threat of
moving the team to the burbs- as the Atlanta Braves just did, abandoning
Turner Field, downtown site of the 1996 Olympics stadium.

The Georgia Dome is being replaced by Mercedes-Benz Stadium, under
construction right next door.




It's really nuts.

I can recall when all of these buildings were constructed and now they
are tearing them down. Still almost new.

I recall thousand year old buildings in Europe so it's odd to see this.

I still recall the "temporary" tax for our new ballpark became a
permanent .1% hike.


Also: Here in Milwaukee as I suspect elsewhere, new construction is
occurring at a pace I've never seen before yet there are hundreds of
store-fronts vacant.


I talked to a fiend of mine yesterday who owns a bookshop in a rental
space. Our city which should encourage business did everything they
could to deny him a ten year occupancy permit. He had to go to court to
obtain one as long at 14 other permits and paid inspections.


He said now that he knows the city will at least allow him to be there
for a while, he'll spend the money to make minor improvements such as
more lighting.

If he thought he was going to be kicked out after a year he would not bother
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On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 10:43:49 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
On 03/19/2017 9:39 AM, trader_4 wrote:
...

IDK what they used back then, but 2x4s today are not pine, they are Douglas Fir.


Only if you're in the western US or Canada (or Japan/China where most
Doug fir is exported to)...the kids in the lumber yards around here
don't even know what "Doug fur" is; some kind of pet, maybe???

--


The local HD and lumber yards here in NJ are full of 2x4s
made of Douglas Fir. I guess they do use other softwoods
too, but DF is a readily available, common and cheap choice.
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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On 3/19/2017 11:05 AM, Cindy Hamilton wrote:
On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 8:59:41 AM UTC-4, Oliver Douglas wrote:

Ever notice free government public housing for welfare democrats lasts
less than 30 years before it's demolished?

Low bidder.



Home owners tend to take care of their largest investment.

Public housing occupants typically don't care.
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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 6:40:52 AM UTC-5, philo wrote:
Most of the houses in my neighborhood were built in the late 19th or
early 20th century.

Recently someone totally rebuilt a house near here, they stripped it
down to the 2 x 4's and rebuilt...they even put in a new foundation.

At first I wondered why they did not raze it entirely until I realized
the old style 2 x 4's are superior to the ones used today.

They actually measure 2" x 4" and use better wood that today's soft pine.

My question is: what kind of wood was actually used.

It's denser than soft pine but not actual hardwood, though it is
sometimes referred to as such.



I'm guessing it's from old growth forests. Common lumber today comes from managed forests and the trees grow very fast. These days, lumber producers use every part of the tree to make "Engineered Lumber". The first time I saw such lumber was back in the 1980's where a lot of the lumber we had on a job site was spliced together. ヽ(ヅ)ノ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FScwgmeoWg8

[8~{} Uncle Wooden Monster


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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 08:59:34 -0400, Oliver Douglas
wrote:

On 03/19/2017 08:12 AM, philo wrote:
My grandparents had their house built in 1948 also.
I believe the end of the war housing boom was when the builders
started using the lower grade soft pine.

I recall my grandmother telling me the builder used the better grade
lumber because all the soft pine in the area was already snapped up by
other builders.


My house was built in 1898 and will probably be around for a while...

I am living at a time where I actually see buildings less than 50
years old being demolished.



Ever notice free government public housing for welfare democrats lasts
less than 30 years before it's demolished?

OTOH, republican taxpayer farmers will take care of their homes and pass
them on for many generations.

How about democrat farmers?
And welfare republican rednecks?
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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 09:43:45 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 03/19/2017 9:39 AM, trader_4 wrote:
...

IDK what they used back then, but 2x4s today are not pine, they are Douglas Fir.


Only if you're in the western US or Canada (or Japan/China where most
Doug fir is exported to)...the kids in the lumber yards around here
don't even know what "Doug fur" is; some kind of pet, maybe???

Douglas Fir is WAY too valuable to be used for residential framing,
even here in Canada./ What we buy is labled as "SPF" = meaning mixed
softwood - loosely spruce, pine and fir - but the fir is seldom
"douglas Fir" (more likely Balsam in the east and Alpine in the west)
and there is sometimes a bit of tamarac and hemlock mixed in.
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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On 03/19/2017 03:59 PM, wrote:
Douglas Fir is WAY too valuable to be used for residential framing,
even here in Canada./ What we buy is labled as "SPF" = meaning mixed
softwood - loosely spruce, pine and fir - but the fir is seldom
"douglas Fir" (more likely Balsam in the east and Alpine in the west)
and there is sometimes a bit of tamarac and hemlock mixed in.


http://americansoftwoods.com/species/

"Douglas Fir is North America’s most plentiful softwood species,
accounting for one fifth of the continent’s total softwood reserves.
Because Douglas Fir and Larch share nearly identical structural
characteristics and physical working properties, the two are
interchangeable in dimension lumber but are often kept separate in
appearance grade lumber. The Douglas Fir-Larch species group is
dimensionally stable and universally recognized for its superior
strength-to-weight ratio."

Around here, if it isn't a Doug Fir, it's a Ponderosa Pine. Alpine Fir
tends to be, well, alpine, and not easy to get to. Douglas Fir, btw,
isn't a fir. There's also some larch and small stands of cedar that were
overlooked or too hard to harvest.




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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 06:40:44 -0500, philo wrote:

Most of the houses in my neighborhood were built in the late 19th or
early 20th century.


Recently someone totally rebuilt a house near here, they stripped it
down to the 2 x 4's and rebuilt...they even put in a new foundation.

At first I wondered why they did not raze it entirely until I realized
the old style 2 x 4's are superior to the ones used today.

They actually measure 2" x 4" and use better wood that today's soft pine.

My question is: what kind of wood was actually used.


In my early 1950s, California, cheap tract house, the framing is rough-sawn redwood. Whether
it's coast redwood, or high-sierra redwood, I don't know. Anyway, nails don't stay nailed very
well, but the bugs have given it a pass.

--
croy
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Default 2 x 4's the old ones


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 09:43:45 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 03/19/2017 9:39 AM, trader_4 wrote:
...

IDK what they used back then, but 2x4s today are not pine, they are
Douglas Fir.


Only if you're in the western US or Canada (or Japan/China where most
Doug fir is exported to)...the kids in the lumber yards around here
don't even know what "Doug fur" is; some kind of pet, maybe???

Douglas Fir is WAY too valuable to be used for residential framing,
even here in Canada./ What we buy is labled as "SPF" = meaning mixed
softwood - loosely spruce, pine and fir - but the fir is seldom
"douglas Fir" (more likely Balsam in the east and Alpine in the west)
and there is sometimes a bit of tamarac and hemlock mixed in.


Same here in Florida at the borgs. It would be difficult to even find
douglas fir and, if so, it would not be cheap. I have trouble imagining
it - a western wood - winding up in New Jersey when SYP or SFP is much
closer and cheaper/


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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 5:59:20 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 09:43:45 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 03/19/2017 9:39 AM, trader_4 wrote:
...

IDK what they used back then, but 2x4s today are not pine, they are Douglas Fir.


Only if you're in the western US or Canada (or Japan/China where most
Doug fir is exported to)...the kids in the lumber yards around here
don't even know what "Doug fur" is; some kind of pet, maybe???

Douglas Fir is WAY too valuable to be used for residential framing,
even here in Canada./


Maybe true in Canada, but HD and lumberyards in the US are full of
cheap 2x4s made of Douglas Fir.


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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 10:56:49 AM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 09:43:45 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 03/19/2017 9:39 AM, trader_4 wrote:
...

IDK what they used back then, but 2x4s today are not pine, they are
Douglas Fir.

Only if you're in the western US or Canada (or Japan/China where most
Doug fir is exported to)...the kids in the lumber yards around here
don't even know what "Doug fur" is; some kind of pet, maybe???

Douglas Fir is WAY too valuable to be used for residential framing,
even here in Canada./ What we buy is labled as "SPF" = meaning mixed
softwood - loosely spruce, pine and fir - but the fir is seldom
"douglas Fir" (more likely Balsam in the east and Alpine in the west)
and there is sometimes a bit of tamarac and hemlock mixed in.


Same here in Florida at the borgs. It would be difficult to even find
douglas fir and, if so, it would not be cheap. I have trouble imagining
it - a western wood - winding up in New Jersey when SYP or SFP is much
closer and cheaper/


Better take that up with Home Depot:


2 in. x 4 in. x 96 in. Prime Kiln-Dried Douglas Fir Stud



2 in. x 4 in. x 96 in. Prime Kiln-Dried Douglas Fir Stud
5.0 out of 5
(2) Write a Review
Questions & Answers (2)
$3.13 /each



Neptune, NJ store.
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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 08:50:28 -0700 (PDT)
trader_4 wrote:

On Sunday, March 19, 2017 at 5:59:20 PM UTC-4,
wrote:
On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 09:43:45 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 03/19/2017 9:39 AM, trader_4 wrote:
...

IDK what they used back then, but 2x4s today are not pine, they
are Douglas Fir.

Only if you're in the western US or Canada (or Japan/China where
most Doug fir is exported to)...the kids in the lumber yards
around here don't even know what "Doug fur" is; some kind of pet,
maybe???

Douglas Fir is WAY too valuable to be used for residential framing,
even here in Canada./


Maybe true in Canada, but HD and lumberyards in the US are full of
cheap 2x4s made of Douglas Fir.



Only in your town...


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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On Mon, 20 Mar 2017 08:55:46 -0700 (PDT)
trader_4 wrote:

On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 10:56:49 AM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 09:43:45 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 03/19/2017 9:39 AM, trader_4 wrote:
...

IDK what they used back then, but 2x4s today are not pine, they
are Douglas Fir.

Only if you're in the western US or Canada (or Japan/China where
most Doug fir is exported to)...the kids in the lumber yards
around here don't even know what "Doug fur" is; some kind of pet,
maybe???
Douglas Fir is WAY too valuable to be used for residential
framing, even here in Canada./ What we buy is labled as "SPF" =
meaning mixed softwood - loosely spruce, pine and fir - but the
fir is seldom "douglas Fir" (more likely Balsam in the east and
Alpine in the west) and there is sometimes a bit of tamarac and
hemlock mixed in.


Same here in Florida at the borgs. It would be difficult to even
find douglas fir and, if so, it would not be cheap. I have trouble
imagining it - a western wood - winding up in New Jersey when SYP
or SFP is much closer and cheaper/


Better take that up with Home Depot:


2 in. x 4 in. x 96 in. Prime Kiln-Dried Douglas Fir Stud



2 in. x 4 in. x 96 in. Prime Kiln-Dried Douglas Fir Stud
5.0 out of 5
(2) Write a Review
Questions & Answers (2)
$3.13 /each



Neptune, NJ store.


Well then that means every store all across the fruited plains has
them...

****ing pathetic You really show your ass every day..
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Default 2 x 4's the old ones


"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 10:56:49 AM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 09:43:45 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 03/19/2017 9:39 AM, trader_4 wrote:
...

IDK what they used back then, but 2x4s today are not pine, they are
Douglas Fir.

Only if you're in the western US or Canada (or Japan/China where most
Doug fir is exported to)...the kids in the lumber yards around here
don't even know what "Doug fur" is; some kind of pet, maybe???
Douglas Fir is WAY too valuable to be used for residential framing,
even here in Canada./ What we buy is labled as "SPF" = meaning mixed
softwood - loosely spruce, pine and fir - but the fir is seldom
"douglas Fir" (more likely Balsam in the east and Alpine in the west)
and there is sometimes a bit of tamarac and hemlock mixed in.


Same here in Florida at the borgs. It would be difficult to even find
douglas fir and, if so, it would not be cheap. I have trouble imagining
it - a western wood - winding up in New Jersey when SYP or SFP is much
closer and cheaper/


Better take that up with Home Depot:


2 in. x 4 in. x 96 in. Prime Kiln-Dried Douglas Fir Stud



2 in. x 4 in. x 96 in. Prime Kiln-Dried Douglas Fir Stud
5.0 out of 5
(2) Write a Review
Questions & Answers (2)
$3.13 /each


Neptune, NJ store.


Strange, no douglas fir shows of on that store's page for studs. Yellow
pine, yes but not in stock. The ubiquitous "whitewood" (SFP) yes but no
douglas fir. Got a better link?
http://www.homedepot.com/s/wood%2520stud?NCNI-5


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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 7:09:39 PM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 10:56:49 AM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Mar 2017 09:43:45 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 03/19/2017 9:39 AM, trader_4 wrote:
...

IDK what they used back then, but 2x4s today are not pine, they are
Douglas Fir.

Only if you're in the western US or Canada (or Japan/China where most
Doug fir is exported to)...the kids in the lumber yards around here
don't even know what "Doug fur" is; some kind of pet, maybe???
Douglas Fir is WAY too valuable to be used for residential framing,
even here in Canada./ What we buy is labled as "SPF" = meaning mixed
softwood - loosely spruce, pine and fir - but the fir is seldom
"douglas Fir" (more likely Balsam in the east and Alpine in the west)
and there is sometimes a bit of tamarac and hemlock mixed in.

Same here in Florida at the borgs. It would be difficult to even find
douglas fir and, if so, it would not be cheap. I have trouble imagining
it - a western wood - winding up in New Jersey when SYP or SFP is much
closer and cheaper/


Better take that up with Home Depot:


2 in. x 4 in. x 96 in. Prime Kiln-Dried Douglas Fir Stud



2 in. x 4 in. x 96 in. Prime Kiln-Dried Douglas Fir Stud
5.0 out of 5
(2) Write a Review
Questions & Answers (2)
$3.13 /each


Neptune, NJ store.


Strange, no douglas fir shows of on that store's page for studs. Yellow
pine, yes but not in stock. The ubiquitous "whitewood" (SFP) yes but no
douglas fir. Got a better link?
http://www.homedepot.com/s/wood%2520stud?NCNI-5


They show up as Douglas Fir 2x4s in the Neptune store when I
did the search. That's what I quoted from above. IDK what
more you want.
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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On 03/20/2017 05:09 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Strange, no douglas fir shows of on that store's page for studs. Yellow
pine, yes but not in stock. The ubiquitous "whitewood" (SFP) yes but no
douglas fir. Got a better link?


That's a new (to me) use of 'whitewood'. I've always heard it used for
poplar or any of the hardwoods with no prominent grain or color that you
can doll up to resemble more expensive cabinet woods.
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Default 2 x 4's the old ones

On Monday, March 20, 2017 at 8:47:29 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
On 03/20/2017 05:09 PM, dadiOH wrote:
Strange, no douglas fir shows of on that store's page for studs. Yellow
pine, yes but not in stock. The ubiquitous "whitewood" (SFP) yes but no
douglas fir. Got a better link?


That's a new (to me) use of 'whitewood'. I've always heard it used for
poplar or any of the hardwoods with no prominent grain or color that you
can doll up to resemble more expensive cabinet woods.


I've seen it on the display of SPF studs at Home Despot.

Cindy Hamilton
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