This is long, but I'm wondering if everyone else gets this treatment.

My home warranty with American Home Shield (AHS) is up for renewal. Today
they really ticked me off.

Came home to find the house is 86F and the A/C is blowing warm air. The
cooling fan on the compressour outside is off. The compressor is still
running. I turn it off for 45 mins and kick it back on, working OK now.
20-25min later, warm air again. I call AHS and the first place they send me
to can't do it until next Tues or Wed at the earliest. That's not within
their 48hr "emergency" time frame.

I call back, the 2nd company they send me to calls back. The guy who runs
the shop said he isn't there to schedule me and doesn't know when he'll be
back. Says that someone will call tomorrow (Fri) to schedule me, but as of
this morning, Monday are the schedule times, probably later. That's not
within 48 hrs, so I call AHS.

AHS tells me that "it's summer, it's hot, there are a lot of problems, and
unless there is someone ill or with a medical condition, they won't classify
it as an emergency" Needles to say, I want to know why I'm waisting money
if you don't come help me when I need it, especially when I live in FL,
it'll be 95F all weekend, and my house will get up to 90F. It was only 86F
at 6pm because some rain came in and dropped the outside temp.

The 1 other time I called for my A/C, they told me it was "pre-existing" and
not covered. So $190 out of my pocket. This time, I opted to pay out of my
pocket anyway, because I WILL NOT go until Monday or later w/o A/C. I have
a small indoor pet to think about . AHS didn't seem to care. So tomorrow
someone will be here at 8am and the fan will cost $225-265 with labor.
Hopefully the compressor wasn't damaged. If it is, I'll have to be at the
mercy of AHS, because I'm sure that's not cheap, and I won't spend up to or
over $1000 when I've already paid $345 for this warranty.

Has anyone gotten something useful done through their home warranty? I
don't even know if they would have covered this fan replacement. They
weasled out of the last repair. Is it just my company that sucks? I know
of 2 other major ones, but this was the one the sellers of the house said
they'd pay for (had it as part of closing, but did not specify company,
didn't know better).

Is it worth $345/yr if I don't even know if they'd really cover me when I
need it? I already had to pay $2200 out of my pocket to repipe my house.
My appliances are all new, so I'm not worried about those. I have a brand
new roof. What else is there to worry about except my A/C and heater?
Shoul;d I just stop wasting my money and hope I make it a few more years w/o
needing a new A/C or heater. Thatwould cover up to 1/2 of the replacement
in savings from not paying the warranty.

I don't have your policy but the ones I've read are a complete rip off. The
worse ones are the ones which come with new homes. Basically if you sign it
you cannot sue anyone even if your house has code violations. Save your
money.

In the fine newsgroup "alt.home.repair", "Evan Mann"
artfully composed this message within
. com on 03 Jun
2004:

My home warranty with American Home Shield (AHS) is up for
renewal. Today they really ticked me off.

I got American Home Shield as a new homeowner a few years ago. When
my first appliance failed (heat pump) I called them in, and the
technician reported that the unit had never been cleaned based on his
inspection. My brother was the previous owner of my house and is in
the AC heating business and did in fact, clean it regularly. They
wouldn't cover any part of the replacement or repair based on the
tech's report. I couldn't prove the unit was cleaned because it
wasn't done by a contractor who'd left a bill. I cancelled them in a
huff. They don't even let you talk to a supervisor on the phone when
you have a complaint.

--
Cheryl

I feel that if you put that money in the bank every year, you could fix most
problems that come up.


"Evan Mann" wrote in message
om...

This is long, but I'm wondering if everyone else gets this treatment.

My home warranty with American Home Shield (AHS) is up for renewal. Today
they really ticked me off.

Came home to find the house is 86F and the A/C is blowing warm air. The
cooling fan on the compressour outside is off. The compressor is still
running. I turn it off for 45 mins and kick it back on, working OK now.
20-25min later, warm air again. I call AHS and the first place they send
me
to can't do it until next Tues or Wed at the earliest. That's not within
their 48hr "emergency" time frame.

I call back, the 2nd company they send me to calls back. The guy who runs
the shop said he isn't there to schedule me and doesn't know when he'll be
back. Says that someone will call tomorrow (Fri) to schedule me, but as
of
this morning, Monday are the schedule times, probably later. That's not
within 48 hrs, so I call AHS.

AHS tells me that "it's summer, it's hot, there are a lot of problems, and
unless there is someone ill or with a medical condition, they won't
classify
it as an emergency" Needles to say, I want to know why I'm waisting money
if you don't come help me when I need it, especially when I live in FL,
it'll be 95F all weekend, and my house will get up to 90F. It was only
86F
at 6pm because some rain came in and dropped the outside temp.

The 1 other time I called for my A/C, they told me it was "pre-existing"
and
not covered. So $190 out of my pocket. This time, I opted to pay out of
my
pocket anyway, because I WILL NOT go until Monday or later w/o A/C. I
have
a small indoor pet to think about . AHS didn't seem to care. So tomorrow
someone will be here at 8am and the fan will cost $225-265 with labor.
Hopefully the compressor wasn't damaged. If it is, I'll have to be at the
mercy of AHS, because I'm sure that's not cheap, and I won't spend up to
or
over $1000 when I've already paid $345 for this warranty.

Has anyone gotten something useful done through their home warranty? I
don't even know if they would have covered this fan replacement. They
weasled out of the last repair. Is it just my company that sucks? I know
of 2 other major ones, but this was the one the sellers of the house said
they'd pay for (had it as part of closing, but did not specify company,
didn't know better).

Is it worth $345/yr if I don't even know if they'd really cover me when I
need it? I already had to pay $2200 out of my pocket to repipe my house.
My appliances are all new, so I'm not worried about those. I have a brand
new roof. What else is there to worry about except my A/C and heater?
Shoul;d I just stop wasting my money and hope I make it a few more years
w/o
needing a new A/C or heater. Thatwould cover up to 1/2 of the replacement
in savings from not paying the warranty.

"Evan Mann" wrote in message
om...

This is long, but I'm wondering if everyone else gets this treatment.

My home warranty with American Home Shield (AHS) is up for renewal. Today
they really ticked me off.

Took long enough...AHS is a rip....period.
I have waited over 1 year to get PAID for a job I did for them...


Came home to find the house is 86F and the A/C is blowing warm air. The
cooling fan on the compressour outside is off. The compressor is still
running. I turn it off for 45 mins and kick it back on, working OK now.
20-25min later, warm air again. I call AHS and the first place they send
me
to can't do it until next Tues or Wed at the earliest. That's not within
their 48hr "emergency" time frame.


Hint....there ISNT a 48 hour time frame...
Get there when you can...


I call back, the 2nd company they send me to calls back. The guy who runs
the shop said he isn't there to schedule me and doesn't know when he'll be
back. Says that someone will call tomorrow (Fri) to schedule me, but as
of
this morning, Monday are the schedule times, probably later. That's not
within 48 hrs, so I call AHS.

AHS tells me that "it's summer, it's hot, there are a lot of problems, and
unless there is someone ill or with a medical condition, they won't
classify
it as an emergency" Needles to say, I want to know why I'm waisting money
if you don't come help me when I need it, especially when I live in FL,
it'll be 95F all weekend, and my house will get up to 90F. It was only
86F
at 6pm because some rain came in and dropped the outside temp.

95F? LOL...BAH...
It hit 98F here, and we are 700 miles north of you...and to ME, thats still
cool.



The 1 other time I called for my A/C, they told me it was "pre-existing"
and
not covered. So $190 out of my pocket. This time, I opted to pay out of
my
pocket anyway, because I WILL NOT go until Monday or later w/o A/C. I
have
a small indoor pet to think about . AHS didn't seem to care. So tomorrow
someone will be here at 8am and the fan will cost $225-265 with labor.
Hopefully the compressor wasn't damaged. If it is, I'll have to be at the
mercy of AHS, because I'm sure that's not cheap, and I won't spend up to
or
over $1000 when I've already paid $345 for this warranty.



Has anyone gotten something useful done through their home warranty? I
don't even know if they would have covered this fan replacement. They
weasled out of the last repair. Is it just my company that sucks? I know
of 2 other major ones, but this was the one the sellers of the house said
they'd pay for (had it as part of closing, but did not specify company,
didn't know better).

Is it worth $345/yr if I don't even know if they'd really cover me when I
need it? I already had to pay $2200 out of my pocket to repipe my house.
My appliances are all new, so I'm not worried about those. I have a brand
new roof. What else is there to worry about except my A/C and heater?
Shoul;d I just stop wasting my money and hope I make it a few more years
w/o
needing a new A/C or heater. Thatwould cover up to 1/2 of the replacement
in savings from not paying the warranty.


Let me explain something to you as someone that will NEVER EVER do another
2-10, AHS, or Amercian Republic or the like warranty call again, for anyone,
even existing customers.
First, its an INSURANCE company. They will not do what needs to be done, but
piece it together so it works.
Example, had a customer that called and got me approved with AHS since I am
NOT one of their contractors. He refused to let the last asshole that worked
on it, (they use newbies that need the money) work on it again. It was an
old Carrier..about 7 years...and the evap coil was leaking...like that was a
surprise. At first, they refused to cover it. Then, they did, after he
raised hell. I told them on the phone that the outdoor coil would start
next, as is the case 99% of the time, and to be ready for it. We fought for
3 days over the price of the coil, installed.
4 weeks later, he calls me and says its not cooling....get there, check it,
its frozen over, thaw it, charge it, check it, and the evap is fine, but the
outdoor coil has started to split seams. Its leaking slowly, and about to go
postal with the leaks...
Call AHS, and they want to put a coil in, a coil thats not made any longer,
and if wwe cant do that, they want to pay me $150 for a braze job on the old
coil....in other words, they want me to destroy the coil, as the leaks are
in places that a torch will destroy the fins..
The homeowner raised hell again, and then, when they finally admitted that a
coil was a bad idea, and a new unti was to go in, they granted me...get this
****....$300 for a new Goodman unit....he was gonna go from a Carrier to a
POS Goodman. I sell York, and I told them I was not going to install a POS
like that.
They denied it, and said their guy would do it for them in 4 to 6
weeks.....think about that when 48 hours isnt getting it....
Now...I put in a York, they offered to pay $500 finally on it, and that
didnt cover the wholesale on the machine....the homeowner paid the
difference, and has not had a problem since.
I STILL dont have my money from AHS...

The home warranty crap is that...crap. They use the biggest hack contractors
I have seen. American Republic sent a guy out to a customers of mine that I
had put a brand new contactor and capacitor in, because the customer was
worried about the rust I saw on the Goodman unit they had. This guy in front
of me, not knowing who I was, said that the last asshole had put in used
parts, and when I asked to see them...BTW, the manufacture date was on the
cap, and it was 6 weeks old...
he said I would not know what I was looking at, and put the cover back on
and said that the rust was a figment of the jacklegs imagination, and that
the unit would run another 50 years...
When I told him that *I* was the jackleg that put the parts in, he went on a
tirade about being licenced, and how its illegal for a non licenced person
yadda yadda...and when I gave him my card, with the licence number on it,
and asked to see his, he packed and left...turns out, he was non licenced,
and is now paying off his $30,000 fine from the State....AHS had no clue he
had no right to work on a unit.
Oh...and they also have a new York unit, one that I GAVE to them since they
are in their 80s, and deserved not to worry about the unit when it got above
90.

Also, if you PAY a licenced, insured contractor for a repair, they have to
reimburse you, and it will be a fight, and dont expect all your money
back...but they DO and CAN pay you back.

Evan Mann wrote:

My home warranty with American Home Shield (AHS) is up for renewal.
Today they really ticked me off.


If you do a google search on group, you will find AHS has a poor record. I'd
never use them or any other ome warranty. You will come out cheaper (and
have better quality) by paying for service as needed. -- Warranty companies
are in business to do one thing - - - make money.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

Well I think I'm not going to renew this. I'd probably never get a new home
warranty, but for the price, and a 24 yr old home, it sounded like it was
worth it. But now I see it was not. Since your in the business, I hve a
few A/C related questions.

I have no idea how many HOURS the compressor ran w/o the cooling fan. At
least 3, I'm guessing more. I'm worried the compressor is bad or going to
go bad soon. If the compressor does go bad, can just the outdoor unit be
replaced, or does the coil inside the vent stack have to be replaced? Does
the copper pipe frm the compressor to the coil have to be replaced? I want
to try and plan ahead for the compressor failing. I also have a furnace
that the blower fan is part of, at least 14 yrs's old but no problems with
it this past winter, or with the fan itself.

If the compressor does fail, is that part replaced, or is it the entire
box/fan/everything outside? What kind of price could I be looking to be for
a mid-range unit to cool 1800sq ft? I know it's a somewhat loaded question,
but at least its pointed to a specific component, and not "how much for new
A/C for my entire house". Unless your going to tell me when you replace a
compressor, you need a new coil/piping/fan/other things.


"CBhVAC" wrote in message
...

"Evan Mann" wrote in message
om...

This is long, but I'm wondering if everyone else gets this treatment.

My home warranty with American Home Shield (AHS) is up for renewal.
Today
they really ticked me off.

Took long enough...AHS is a rip....period.
I have waited over 1 year to get PAID for a job I did for them...


Came home to find the house is 86F and the A/C is blowing warm air. The
cooling fan on the compressour outside is off. The compressor is still
running. I turn it off for 45 mins and kick it back on, working OK now.
20-25min later, warm air again. I call AHS and the first place they
send
me
to can't do it until next Tues or Wed at the earliest. That's not
within
their 48hr "emergency" time frame.


Hint....there ISNT a 48 hour time frame...
Get there when you can...


I call back, the 2nd company they send me to calls back. The guy who
runs
the shop said he isn't there to schedule me and doesn't know when he'll
be
back. Says that someone will call tomorrow (Fri) to schedule me, but as
of
this morning, Monday are the schedule times, probably later. That's not
within 48 hrs, so I call AHS.

AHS tells me that "it's summer, it's hot, there are a lot of problems,
and
unless there is someone ill or with a medical condition, they won't
classify
it as an emergency" Needles to say, I want to know why I'm waisting
money
if you don't come help me when I need it, especially when I live in FL,
it'll be 95F all weekend, and my house will get up to 90F. It was only
86F
at 6pm because some rain came in and dropped the outside temp.

95F? LOL...BAH...
It hit 98F here, and we are 700 miles north of you...and to ME, thats
still
cool.



The 1 other time I called for my A/C, they told me it was "pre-existing"
and
not covered. So $190 out of my pocket. This time, I opted to pay out
of
my
pocket anyway, because I WILL NOT go until Monday or later w/o A/C. I
have
a small indoor pet to think about . AHS didn't seem to care. So
tomorrow
someone will be here at 8am and the fan will cost $225-265 with labor.
Hopefully the compressor wasn't damaged. If it is, I'll have to be at
the
mercy of AHS, because I'm sure that's not cheap, and I won't spend up to
or
over $1000 when I've already paid $345 for this warranty.



Has anyone gotten something useful done through their home warranty? I
don't even know if they would have covered this fan replacement. They
weasled out of the last repair. Is it just my company that sucks? I
know
of 2 other major ones, but this was the one the sellers of the house
said
they'd pay for (had it as part of closing, but did not specify company,
didn't know better).

Is it worth $345/yr if I don't even know if they'd really cover me when
I
need it? I already had to pay $2200 out of my pocket to repipe my
house.
My appliances are all new, so I'm not worried about those. I have a
brand
new roof. What else is there to worry about except my A/C and heater?
Shoul;d I just stop wasting my money and hope I make it a few more years
w/o
needing a new A/C or heater. Thatwould cover up to 1/2 of the
replacement
in savings from not paying the warranty.


Let me explain something to you as someone that will NEVER EVER do another
2-10, AHS, or Amercian Republic or the like warranty call again, for
anyone,
even existing customers.
First, its an INSURANCE company. They will not do what needs to be done,
but
piece it together so it works.
Example, had a customer that called and got me approved with AHS since I
am
NOT one of their contractors. He refused to let the last asshole that
worked
on it, (they use newbies that need the money) work on it again. It was an
old Carrier..about 7 years...and the evap coil was leaking...like that was
a
surprise. At first, they refused to cover it. Then, they did, after he
raised hell. I told them on the phone that the outdoor coil would start
next, as is the case 99% of the time, and to be ready for it. We fought
for
3 days over the price of the coil, installed.
4 weeks later, he calls me and says its not cooling....get there, check
it,
its frozen over, thaw it, charge it, check it, and the evap is fine, but
the
outdoor coil has started to split seams. Its leaking slowly, and about to
go
postal with the leaks...
Call AHS, and they want to put a coil in, a coil thats not made any
longer,
and if wwe cant do that, they want to pay me $150 for a braze job on the
old
coil....in other words, they want me to destroy the coil, as the leaks are
in places that a torch will destroy the fins..
The homeowner raised hell again, and then, when they finally admitted that
a
coil was a bad idea, and a new unti was to go in, they granted me...get
this
****....$300 for a new Goodman unit....he was gonna go from a Carrier to a
POS Goodman. I sell York, and I told them I was not going to install a POS
like that.
They denied it, and said their guy would do it for them in 4 to 6
weeks.....think about that when 48 hours isnt getting it....
Now...I put in a York, they offered to pay $500 finally on it, and that
didnt cover the wholesale on the machine....the homeowner paid the
difference, and has not had a problem since.
I STILL dont have my money from AHS...

The home warranty crap is that...crap. They use the biggest hack
contractors
I have seen. American Republic sent a guy out to a customers of mine that
I
had put a brand new contactor and capacitor in, because the customer was
worried about the rust I saw on the Goodman unit they had. This guy in
front
of me, not knowing who I was, said that the last asshole had put in used
parts, and when I asked to see them...BTW, the manufacture date was on the
cap, and it was 6 weeks old...
he said I would not know what I was looking at, and put the cover back on
and said that the rust was a figment of the jacklegs imagination, and that
the unit would run another 50 years...
When I told him that *I* was the jackleg that put the parts in, he went on
a
tirade about being licenced, and how its illegal for a non licenced person
yadda yadda...and when I gave him my card, with the licence number on it,
and asked to see his, he packed and left...turns out, he was non licenced,
and is now paying off his $30,000 fine from the State....AHS had no clue
he
had no right to work on a unit.
Oh...and they also have a new York unit, one that I GAVE to them since
they
are in their 80s, and deserved not to worry about the unit when it got
above
90.

Also, if you PAY a licenced, insured contractor for a repair, they have to
reimburse you, and it will be a fight, and dont expect all your money
back...but they DO and CAN pay you back.

"Evan Mann" wrote in message
om...
Well I think I'm not going to renew this. I'd probably never get a new
home
warranty, but for the price, and a 24 yr old home, it sounded like it was
worth it. But now I see it was not. Since your in the business, I hve a
few A/C related questions.

Tell you something else that sucks, BTW, and thats my home insurance
company...I have Farmers Homeowners insurance...made a claim this week, and
I can smell it coming.....denied.


I have no idea how many HOURS the compressor ran w/o the cooling fan. At
least 3, I'm guessing more. I'm worried the compressor is bad or going to
go bad soon.

Seen them run for months, particularly in the winter months like that.
3 hours wont kill it.

If the compressor does go bad, can just the outdoor unit be
replaced,

You CAN, and in some cases, depending on the age of the outer unit, it may
be cheaper. Normally, just the compressor is replaced, and a good tech will
add filters to the lineset (the copper lines) to collect burnout junk, and
add a product like AcidAway to the lines to prevent acid from attacking
parts of the compressor after the new one is installed.

or does the coil inside the vent stack have to be replaced?

Tech term alert! LOL..thats called an evap coil, and its in its own place in
the airstream, not the vent stack.

Does
the copper pipe frm the compressor to the coil have to be replaced?

If the outdoor unit, complete, is replaced, the smartest thing you can do,
is replace the lines, and the evap coil with a matched set.

I want
to try and plan ahead for the compressor failing. I also have a furnace
that the blower fan is part of, at least 14 yrs's old but no problems with
it this past winter, or with the fan itself.

Not bad...but be prepared for it to fail, and if you dont have them, get
some CO detectors.


If the compressor does fail, is that part replaced, or is it the entire
box/fan/everything outside?

Either or....see above.

What kind of price could I be looking to be for
a mid-range unit to cool 1800sq ft?

Depends. What current tonnage you have now, and what SEER rating will you
want? 10? 12? 13? 14? 16?18?

I know it's a somewhat loaded question,

No kidding..LOL..particularly since depending on where you live, and the
type of structure you live in, it could be a 1.5 ton unit, or a 5 ton..

Prob closer to a 2 or a 2.5 ton unit, and figure since its straight AC, and
not a heat pump, from $1500 to $5000...depending on what you need, size,
SEER, and parts that need to be replaced to make it all work right again.

but at least its pointed to a specific component, and not "how much for
new
A/C for my entire house". Unless your going to tell me when you replace a
compressor, you need a new coil/piping/fan/other things.


Nope...just add burn out filters.



"CBhVAC" wrote in
message
...

"Evan Mann" wrote in message
om...

This is long, but I'm wondering if everyone else gets this treatment.

My home warranty with American Home Shield (AHS) is up for renewal.
Today
they really ticked me off.

Took long enough...AHS is a rip....period.
I have waited over 1 year to get PAID for a job I did for them...


Came home to find the house is 86F and the A/C is blowing warm air.
The
cooling fan on the compressour outside is off. The compressor is
still
running. I turn it off for 45 mins and kick it back on, working OK
now.
20-25min later, warm air again. I call AHS and the first place they
send
me
to can't do it until next Tues or Wed at the earliest. That's not
within
their 48hr "emergency" time frame.


Hint....there ISNT a 48 hour time frame...
Get there when you can...


I call back, the 2nd company they send me to calls back. The guy who
runs
the shop said he isn't there to schedule me and doesn't know when
he'll
be
back. Says that someone will call tomorrow (Fri) to schedule me, but
as
of
this morning, Monday are the schedule times, probably later. That's
not
within 48 hrs, so I call AHS.

AHS tells me that "it's summer, it's hot, there are a lot of problems,
and
unless there is someone ill or with a medical condition, they won't
classify
it as an emergency" Needles to say, I want to know why I'm waisting
money
if you don't come help me when I need it, especially when I live in
FL,
it'll be 95F all weekend, and my house will get up to 90F. It was
only
86F
at 6pm because some rain came in and dropped the outside temp.

95F? LOL...BAH...
It hit 98F here, and we are 700 miles north of you...and to ME, thats
still
cool.



The 1 other time I called for my A/C, they told me it was
"pre-existing"
and
not covered. So $190 out of my pocket. This time, I opted to pay out
of
my
pocket anyway, because I WILL NOT go until Monday or later w/o A/C. I
have
a small indoor pet to think about . AHS didn't seem to care. So
tomorrow
someone will be here at 8am and the fan will cost $225-265 with labor.
Hopefully the compressor wasn't damaged. If it is, I'll have to be at
the
mercy of AHS, because I'm sure that's not cheap, and I won't spend up
to
or
over $1000 when I've already paid $345 for this warranty.



Has anyone gotten something useful done through their home warranty?
I
don't even know if they would have covered this fan replacement. They
weasled out of the last repair. Is it just my company that sucks? I
know
of 2 other major ones, but this was the one the sellers of the house
said
they'd pay for (had it as part of closing, but did not specify
company,
didn't know better).

Is it worth $345/yr if I don't even know if they'd really cover me
when
I
need it? I already had to pay $2200 out of my pocket to repipe my
house.
My appliances are all new, so I'm not worried about those. I have a
brand
new roof. What else is there to worry about except my A/C and heater?
Shoul;d I just stop wasting my money and hope I make it a few more
years
w/o
needing a new A/C or heater. Thatwould cover up to 1/2 of the
replacement
in savings from not paying the warranty.


Let me explain something to you as someone that will NEVER EVER do
another
2-10, AHS, or Amercian Republic or the like warranty call again, for
anyone,
even existing customers.
First, its an INSURANCE company. They will not do what needs to be done,
but
piece it together so it works.
Example, had a customer that called and got me approved with AHS since I
am
NOT one of their contractors. He refused to let the last asshole that
worked
on it, (they use newbies that need the money) work on it again. It was
an
old Carrier..about 7 years...and the evap coil was leaking...like that
was
a
surprise. At first, they refused to cover it. Then, they did, after he
raised hell. I told them on the phone that the outdoor coil would start
next, as is the case 99% of the time, and to be ready for it. We fought
for
3 days over the price of the coil, installed.
4 weeks later, he calls me and says its not cooling....get there, check
it,
its frozen over, thaw it, charge it, check it, and the evap is fine, but
the
outdoor coil has started to split seams. Its leaking slowly, and about
to
go
postal with the leaks...
Call AHS, and they want to put a coil in, a coil thats not made any
longer,
and if wwe cant do that, they want to pay me $150 for a braze job on the
old
coil....in other words, they want me to destroy the coil, as the leaks
are
in places that a torch will destroy the fins..
The homeowner raised hell again, and then, when they finally admitted
that
a
coil was a bad idea, and a new unti was to go in, they granted me...get
this
****....$300 for a new Goodman unit....he was gonna go from a Carrier to
a
POS Goodman. I sell York, and I told them I was not going to install a
POS
like that.
They denied it, and said their guy would do it for them in 4 to 6
weeks.....think about that when 48 hours isnt getting it....
Now...I put in a York, they offered to pay $500 finally on it, and that
didnt cover the wholesale on the machine....the homeowner paid the
difference, and has not had a problem since.
I STILL dont have my money from AHS...

The home warranty crap is that...crap. They use the biggest hack
contractors
I have seen. American Republic sent a guy out to a customers of mine
that
I
had put a brand new contactor and capacitor in, because the customer was
worried about the rust I saw on the Goodman unit they had. This guy in
front
of me, not knowing who I was, said that the last asshole had put in used
parts, and when I asked to see them...BTW, the manufacture date was on
the
cap, and it was 6 weeks old...
he said I would not know what I was looking at, and put the cover back
on
and said that the rust was a figment of the jacklegs imagination, and
that
the unit would run another 50 years...
When I told him that *I* was the jackleg that put the parts in, he went
on
a
tirade about being licenced, and how its illegal for a non licenced
person
yadda yadda...and when I gave him my card, with the licence number on
it,
and asked to see his, he packed and left...turns out, he was non
licenced,
and is now paying off his $30,000 fine from the State....AHS had no clue
he
had no right to work on a unit.
Oh...and they also have a new York unit, one that I GAVE to them since
they
are in their 80s, and deserved not to worry about the unit when it got
above
90.

Also, if you PAY a licenced, insured contractor for a repair, they have
to
reimburse you, and it will be a fight, and dont expect all your money
back...but they DO and CAN pay you back.

"CBhVAC" wrote in message
news:F9Rvc.49
Depends. What current tonnage you have now, and what SEER rating will you
want? 10? 12? 13? 14? 16?18?

I have to look at the current one to see the tonage. I forget, but it's a
Carrier unit built in 1990. What was the highest seer rating back then?
Since I don't plan to stay in this house more then a few more years, I'd
probably go cheap and get lower seer, just trying to get at least equal to
what I have now

I know it's a somewhat loaded question,

No kidding..LOL..particularly since depending on where you live, and the
type of structure you live in, it could be a 1.5 ton unit, or a 5 ton..

Prob closer to a 2 or a 2.5 ton unit, and figure since its straight AC,
and
not a heat pump, from $1500 to $5000...depending on what you need, size,
SEER, and parts that need to be replaced to make it all work right again.

Is that price based on just the compressor, or are you talking the lines and
the evap coil?

Again, I really appreciate the info. I'm going to ask the guy coming out
tomorrow what it would cost to replace everything, and just the outdoor
compressor. Want to ask him about all the things you are mentioning. I
know when he was out last time, he did mention Superheat and put a temp
probe on the box. He didn't mention subcool however. My invoice indicated
superheat of 42 and I was low on refridgerant. This was also before I had
the compressor's cooling fins cleaned, something I don't think was done
since it was installed. Does that effect the superheat/subcool and need for
refridgerant?

In the fine newsgroup "alt.home.repair", "Evan Mann"
artfully composed this message within
. com on 03 Jun
2004:

If the compressor does fail, is that part replaced, or is it the
entire box/fan/everything outside? What kind of price could I
be looking to be for a mid-range unit to cool 1800sq ft? I know
it's a somewhat loaded question, but at least its pointed to a
specific component, and not "how much for new A/C for my entire
house". Unless your going to tell me when you replace a
compressor, you need a new coil/piping/fan/other things.


OOOO OOO I can answer this. Not how much it would take to replace a
compressor on a furnace that is at least 14 years old, but HOW MUCH
CAN YOU SAVE ON ENERGY COSTS on a brand new, much more energy
efficient unit. The answer for me when I had to choose between
repairing an old heat pump and replacing it, no brainer. I think in
3 years since replacing the whole thing, I've already paid it off
in savings in the monthly bills to the electric company. My unit
is a heat pump, $4000 for a brand new Bryant (inside and outside
units because the old inside part wouldn't match up with the new
outside part), but the thing cools off my house in no time flat. In
the winter, the air coming from the ducts is actually warm without
AUX heat. For an 1800 sq ft house, the bills halved in the winter,
and in the summer, even lower.

--
Cheryl

Evan-

Let me add in my own experieces as an AHS warranty owner (I've got about
another month to go, and will NOT be renewing).

I got a 1 year contract in 1999 when I bought my home. I've been
renewing it yearly since then, at a cost of ~$400-450 per year (cost
goes up, coverage goes down).

In 2000, I had a problem with the dishwasher. They promptly sent out a
guy who knew what he was doing, and AHS covered ~$180 worth of repairs.
I was happy enough.

In 2001, the ~30-year old furnace gave up the ghost (cracked heat
exchanger). AHS sent out a good company, and they did a quality job of
replacing it, but the job was slowed by the fact that AHS made them use
a unit that AHS had shipped in special. Low-end Goodman unit. This
delayed things by about 5 days. In all, it cost me about $250 to have
the whole furnace replaced (was told by the techs that it was about a
$2000 job). So I saved a lot. At the time I was quite happy, but in
retrospect if I had been buying myself, I would have upped to a more
efficient unit and already recouped the "savings" by now.

In 2003, August, the ~32-year old AC compressor died. Long story short,
I went round and round with AHS. First they sent in a complete idiot who
was unprofessional, probably did further damage to the unit (it wasn't
quited dead at the time), and scared the crap out of me and the wife.
Unit was in worse shape when he left than before he came. I called AHS
to complain and request they get the good company who did the furnace
in. Turns out the good company doesn't do AHS repairs any more, because
AHS doesn't pay enough, and forces inappropriate solutions.

There's a lesson right there.

In the end, I got AHS to send another company out, who performed last
rites on the by-now-dead AC. I asked AHS to cash me out. Read that
again. Cash me out. They gave me about $550 for the repairs which is
what they said they would pay their contractor to do a zombie
resurrection on the system. I took the cash and brought in my good
company to do a top-notch job (~$2800).

The lessons I learned a
-When AHS does cover a repair, it's on their terms and using their
specified equipment, which isn't in my best interests, and causes
delays.
-The better contractors now refuse to work with AHS.
-The apparent savings along the way have come with a downside.

Years ago, it was a better deal. But the way it is now, I'm saving my
$400 per year, and when there's a problem, I'll call a top notch pro who
will deal straight with me, and give me the right options. Major home
systems aren't a place to skimp on quality.

Specifically about HVAC: what I learned is brand means very little, but
installation means everything! Find the best pro you can, and let him
(or her!) direct you to the appropriate hardware.

Also, just a note of thanks here to CBhVAC who last year gave me good
guidance in dealing with my AC mess. He confirmed my "hack detection"
and this did much for my stress level.

Evan, good luck to you. Find a pro and let them direct you. Let us know
how it goes.

Marc

"Evan Mann" wrote in message
om...

"CBhVAC" wrote in
message
news:F9Rvc.49
Depends. What current tonnage you have now, and what SEER rating will
you
want? 10? 12? 13? 14? 16?18?

I have to look at the current one to see the tonage. I forget, but it's a
Carrier unit built in 1990. What was the highest seer rating back then?
Since I don't plan to stay in this house more then a few more years, I'd
probably go cheap and get lower seer, just trying to get at least equal to
what I have now

Back then, about 9 to 10..10 MAYBE.
Most are in the 8-9 range, and as they age, they get lower.



I know it's a somewhat loaded question,

No kidding..LOL..particularly since depending on where you live, and the
type of structure you live in, it could be a 1.5 ton unit, or a 5 ton..

Prob closer to a 2 or a 2.5 ton unit, and figure since its straight AC,
and
not a heat pump, from $1500 to $5000...depending on what you need, size,
SEER, and parts that need to be replaced to make it all work right
again.

Is that price based on just the compressor, or are you talking the lines
and
the evap coil?

Outdoor unit, and lines, and evap coil.



Again, I really appreciate the info. I'm going to ask the guy coming out
tomorrow what it would cost to replace everything, and just the outdoor
compressor. Want to ask him about all the things you are mentioning. I
know when he was out last time, he did mention Superheat and put a temp
probe on the box. He didn't mention subcool however.

Subcool is only used if you have a TEV on the evap coil
Good...most techs..if you want to call them that, just look at pressure
readings, and slap juice to the unit.
I can charge one with just two temp probes, and be damn close...like..within
1 point of dead on.


My invoice indicated
superheat of 42 and I was low on refridgerant. This was also before I had
the compressor's cooling fins cleaned, something I don't think was done
since it was installed. Does that effect the superheat/subcool and need
for
refridgerant?

Ummm..if he didnt clean the coils, hes got no clue. The units got to be
working right, and the coils clean to check anything.
Also, if he didnt use a scale, (and this goes for ANYONE reading this) to
measure in the R22, then I hope you didnt pay him a thing.

"CBhVAC" wrote in message
...



Hey CB, quit being so nice, it is not in your nature! (If you listen to the
"others" anyway!) LOL!!
Greg

"CBhVAC" wrote in message
news:PIRvc.58 My invoice indicated
superheat of 42 and I was low on refridgerant. This was also before I
had
the compressor's cooling fins cleaned, something I don't think was done
since it was installed. Does that effect the superheat/subcool and need
for
refridgerant?

Ummm..if he didnt clean the coils, hes got no clue. The units got to be
working right, and the coils clean to check anything.
Also, if he didnt use a scale, (and this goes for ANYONE reading this) to
measure in the R22, then I hope you didnt pay him a thing.


This guy actually didn't do anything but inspect. I wanted him to look at
it first before I went to AHS to try and get them to pay for repairs. He
didn't mention that it needed a cleaning, but I never noticed him really
look at it. He pointed out a few other things as well. I wasn't going to
pay him for repairs I had HOPED AHS would cover. Big mistake there.

The guy from AHS said it could use one a cleaning, and it did. Overall,
theguy who inspected it originally, and is coming out tomorrow, seemed much
more intelligant and knowing them the guys AHS sent out, so I feel
comfortable with him working on it again. And I'm more armed with knowledge
now.

"Greg O" wrote in message
...

"CBhVAC" wrote in
message
...



Hey CB, quit being so nice, it is not in your nature! (If you listen to
the
"others" anyway!) LOL!!
Greg


You mean like SG, Kevin, Stormy, and DAVEY??

Forkem..

"CBhVAC" wrote in message
...



You mean like SG, Kevin, Stormy, and DAVEY??

Forkem..



Perhaps!
Greg

I have another company for "home warranty", but have batted 0 for 3 with
them sofar.

The (ancient) washer died:
"We cover all appliances ... but not the washer, dryer or refigerator."

The shutoff valves were bad:
"We cover plumbing, but only inside the walls." (This in a condo, where
interior plumbing is not "mine")

Last, I called them for my dishwasher, a DOA unit I'd tried to revive,
and failed. It was -maybe- a few years old, and hardly used - I'd
fiddled with it a bunch, seen it up close, inside and out, and it's
clean as a whistle, if nothing else. They sent a guy who declared that
the pump needed replaced, but he reported a different story back to
warranty company, apparently. I heard:
"Calcium buildup from hard water, so it's a pre-existing condition,
claim denied."

If I had nothing better to do, I'd send them digital pictures of
the -lack- of any buildup whatsoever anywhere in the unit, and go after
the fraudulent report of the repair guy. But, the sellers were required
to buy the warranty for me; so I'm even, I'd guess, just a little more
bitter.

JSH

I can't stand it....


I know how it must feel - overwhelmed by the technology that goes into the
modern house. But service contracts (in my humble opinion) are just
get-rich-quick schemes perpetrated by the unsruculus on the ignorant. You
can't do anything about the unscrupulus, but you CAN do something about the
"ignorant".

There are many sources of information today about the systems in a typical
house. You should have no problem finding the information you need to
evaluate the problems you may encounter with any particular home system.
Whether you choose to do the repair work yourself or contract it out is of
little consequence and is a matter of personal taste. But you should be
prepared to deal with any system failure in your house. To do that, it only
takes a little knowledege. To wit:

Air conditioning units (and heat exchangers) are simply oversized
refridgerators and work on the following principles:
Heat is pumped from one location to another by applying work. We know that
it takes a lot of heat to convert a liquid to a gas. If we allow a liquid
substance to rapidly expand (increase in volume) then the substance will
absorb a lot of heat from the surroundings. If we then get rid of the heat
the substance will change from a gas back into a liquid and it can be
pumped.

The evaporator coils are the mechanism for rejecting the heat. The overall
efficiency of the machine is related to how well we can reject heat.
Therfore we need to keep the evaporator coils as clean as possible. Anyone
can clean the coils. Just don't damage them.

Further, the compressor (which pumps the liquid) must be kept operational.
Keep dust and dirt away from it. Keep the refrigerant charged so it doesn't
run all the time, and keep watch for any evidence of leakage at the shaft or
the fluid connections.

If you are not comfortable doing the work yourself, that's OK, just make
sure you get a reputable service technition. But my main advice is to try
to understand how the unit works so you know what can go wromng and what you
are paying the service technition for. If you can do that you won't need to
pay for a "warranty".

Good Luck

Evan Mann writes:

Has anyone gotten something useful done through their home warranty?

Two kinds of home warranty experiences: (1) you pay but you never need
it, (2) you pay and then need it but it doesn't deliver. The biz
essentially requires that you have no conscience and an ability to take
justified anger and defend yourself legally.

They're for suckers. You pay up front, and when you call for repairs,
all you get levels of guys skilled at excuses for not covering the work,
and an offer to do it for new money.

Even at the very worst, if you actually managed to nail them with an
expensive repair that they might admit is covered, they have the option
to cancel the coverage and give you your "premium" money back. So you
can't *possibly* win.

My elderly mom paid for years on that stuff. They would once in a while
make a show of changing a faucet washer or cleaning the A/C filters, but
when the A/C actually broke down, it was "past its lifetime".

The only "home warranties" that have worked for me are the extensions
for using a gold credit card. I have replaced or repaired several
appliances that quit in their second year that way. The credit card
people seem to run this as a genuine actuarial risk and actually pay the
claims.

An almost OT point on service contracts, I got a Sears electric hot
water heater when my old HWH started leaking after 8 years, and they
unasked sold me a service contract off my credit card too; which I
called and cancelled. (Little sleazy of them but that's not the point)

The hot water heater is still going strong after 25 years.

So I wonder if they give you the good stock if they think there's a
service contract going with it.

Never buy a service contract; if they can make money on it, so can you.
--
Ron Hardin


On the internet, nobody knows you're a jerk.

Excellent point, Cheryl. I use this as a selling point.

FWIW, I replaced my cooling system 3 years ago in July. My summer power
bill dropped from almost $300.00 a month to a little more than $150.00. I
did have a early 80's POS and installed a matching 12 SEER system.


"Cheryl" wrote in message
...
In the fine newsgroup "alt.home.repair", "Evan Mann"
artfully composed this message within
. com on 03 Jun
2004:

If the compressor does fail, is that part replaced, or is it the
entire box/fan/everything outside? What kind of price could I
be looking to be for a mid-range unit to cool 1800sq ft? I know
it's a somewhat loaded question, but at least its pointed to a
specific component, and not "how much for new A/C for my entire
house". Unless your going to tell me when you replace a
compressor, you need a new coil/piping/fan/other things.


OOOO OOO I can answer this. Not how much it would take to replace a
compressor on a furnace that is at least 14 years old, but HOW MUCH
CAN YOU SAVE ON ENERGY COSTS on a brand new, much more energy
efficient unit. The answer for me when I had to choose between
repairing an old heat pump and replacing it, no brainer. I think in
3 years since replacing the whole thing, I've already paid it off
in savings in the monthly bills to the electric company. My unit
is a heat pump, $4000 for a brand new Bryant (inside and outside
units because the old inside part wouldn't match up with the new
outside part), but the thing cools off my house in no time flat. In
the winter, the air coming from the ducts is actually warm without
AUX heat. For an 1800 sq ft house, the bills halved in the winter,
and in the summer, even lower.

--
Cheryl

Not too bad. You have the basics right.

But....

"Kelly Jones" wrote in message
...
I can't stand it....


I know how it must feel - overwhelmed by the technology that goes into the
modern house. But service contracts (in my humble opinion) are just
get-rich-quick schemes perpetrated by the unsruculus on the ignorant. You
can't do anything about the unscrupulus, but you CAN do something about
the
"ignorant".

There are many sources of information today about the systems in a typical
house. You should have no problem finding the information you need to
evaluate the problems you may encounter with any particular home system.
Whether you choose to do the repair work yourself or contract it out is of
little consequence and is a matter of personal taste. But you should be
prepared to deal with any system failure in your house. To do that, it
only
takes a little knowledege. To wit:

Air conditioning units (and heat exchangers) are simply oversized
refridgerators and work on the following principles:
Heat is pumped from one location to another by applying work. We know
that
it takes a lot of heat to convert a liquid to a gas. If we allow a
liquid
substance to rapidly expand (increase in volume) then the substance will
absorb a lot of heat from the surroundings. If we then get rid of the
heat
the substance will change from a gas back into a liquid and it can be
pumped.

Pretty good expalination.

The evaporator coils are the mechanism for rejecting the heat. The
overall
efficiency of the machine is related to how well we can reject heat.
Therfore we need to keep the evaporator coils as clean as possible.
Anyone
can clean the coils. Just don't damage them.

Wrong. Right idea, but wrong part. The condenser coils are what rejects
the heat. If you read the paragraph above this last response, you see what
I mean. As a liquid boils off, it evaporates. Real close, good thoughts.

Further, the compressor (which pumps the liquid) must be kept operational.
Keep dust and dirt away from it. Keep the refrigerant charged so it
doesn't
run all the time, and keep watch for any evidence of leakage at the shaft
or
the fluid connections.

Still close. The compressor is actually a vapor pump and it's the big black
(usually) thing inside the outside unit. It takes the low pressure, low
temp refrigerant and turns it into a high pressure, high temp refrigerant.
The condensr coil 'condenses' it from the vapor to the liquid. Pretty good!

If you are not comfortable doing the work yourself, that's OK, just make
sure you get a reputable service technition. But my main advice is to try
to understand how the unit works so you know what can go wromng and what
you
are paying the service technition for. If you can do that you won't need
to
pay for a "warranty".

Amen!

You looking for work? You've got a better grasp of the refrigeration
circuit than some techs I know....

There are a few tasks a HO can do. Change the filters with a good quality
filter, keep the area around the condenser clear of bushes (Manufacturers
say 36", I think 18" is enough). Keep the grass clippings off the outside
unit. Once a year, use a shop vac to clear the condensate lines. (Ask your
tech how to do this) These things will save you money in the long run.

'Has anyone gotten something useful done through their home warranty? I
don't even know if they would have covered this fan replacement. They
weasled out of the last repair. Is it just my company that sucks? I know
of 2 other major ones, but this was the one the sellers of the house
said they'd pay for (had it as part of closing, but did not specify
company, didn't know better).'

ME: Ive had customers who opted for AHS. Ive not heard a good report on
them. Its best to just stay with one hvac contractor in your locale if
you can..ask your neighbors whos worked out good for them in
emergencies. AHS and others...all try to weasle and finagle when push
comes to shove -- they dont know how to bend over backwards .

Evan Mann wrote:
This is long, but I'm wondering if everyone else gets this treatment.

My home warranty with American Home Shield (AHS) is up for renewal.
Today they really ticked me off.
...

Keep this in mind. All insurance companies are in business to make
money. They figure out how much they are going to spend on your repairs,
add in how much it is going to cost them to service and do the paperwork,
add in commission to the sales staff, cost of those nice buildings where
they work and add something for profit and that is what you pay.

Most of the time, they collect more than they pay out. If they don't
they are out of business. And that is the good ones. The less good spend
your money to keep you from getting claims paid and make even bigger
profits.

I am not suggesting that all insurance is bad all the time, but unless
the peace of mind that the insurance gives you is worth a lot, insurance is
almost always a bad investment.


--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

Thanks HeatMan, for those clarifications and corrections.

"HeatMan" wrote in message
link.net...
Not too bad. You have the basics right.

But....

"Kelly Jones" wrote in message
...
I can't stand it....


I know how it must feel - overwhelmed by the technology that goes into
the
modern house. But service contracts (in my humble opinion) are just
get-rich-quick schemes perpetrated by the unsruculus on the ignorant.
You
can't do anything about the unscrupulus, but you CAN do something about
the
"ignorant".

There are many sources of information today about the systems in a
typical
house. You should have no problem finding the information you need to
evaluate the problems you may encounter with any particular home system.
Whether you choose to do the repair work yourself or contract it out is
of
little consequence and is a matter of personal taste. But you should be
prepared to deal with any system failure in your house. To do that, it
only
takes a little knowledege. To wit:

Air conditioning units (and heat exchangers) are simply oversized
refridgerators and work on the following principles:
Heat is pumped from one location to another by applying work. We know
that
it takes a lot of heat to convert a liquid to a gas. If we allow a
liquid
substance to rapidly expand (increase in volume) then the substance will
absorb a lot of heat from the surroundings. If we then get rid of the
heat
the substance will change from a gas back into a liquid and it can be
pumped.

Pretty good expalination.

The evaporator coils are the mechanism for rejecting the heat. The
overall
efficiency of the machine is related to how well we can reject heat.
Therfore we need to keep the evaporator coils as clean as possible.
Anyone
can clean the coils. Just don't damage them.

Wrong. Right idea, but wrong part. The condenser coils are what rejects
the heat. If you read the paragraph above this last response, you see
what
I mean. As a liquid boils off, it evaporates. Real close, good thoughts.

Further, the compressor (which pumps the liquid) must be kept
operational.
Keep dust and dirt away from it. Keep the refrigerant charged so it
doesn't
run all the time, and keep watch for any evidence of leakage at the
shaft
or
the fluid connections.

Still close. The compressor is actually a vapor pump and it's the big
black
(usually) thing inside the outside unit. It takes the low pressure, low
temp refrigerant and turns it into a high pressure, high temp refrigerant.
The condensr coil 'condenses' it from the vapor to the liquid. Pretty
good!

If you are not comfortable doing the work yourself, that's OK, just make
sure you get a reputable service technition. But my main advice is to
try
to understand how the unit works so you know what can go wromng and what
you
are paying the service technition for. If you can do that you won't
need
to
pay for a "warranty".

Amen!

You looking for work? You've got a better grasp of the refrigeration
circuit than some techs I know....

There are a few tasks a HO can do. Change the filters with a good quality
filter, keep the area around the condenser clear of bushes (Manufacturers
say 36", I think 18" is enough). Keep the grass clippings off the outside
unit. Once a year, use a shop vac to clear the condensate lines. (Ask
your
tech how to do this) These things will save you money in the long run.