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#41
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 23:38:36 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote: One time I gave the guy at the counter a case of St. Pauli Girl beer and they did it all for free...... Funny you should mention that. I just got back from Fannie Mae Candies, where I purchased 8 half pound boxes of Chocolate Citrus Peel. Gifts for a wedding anniversary and Christmas. I mentioned to the young guy packing my candies that my wife would kill me if she knew I took the '93 Grand Am out of the garage in 11F weather. She just doesn't trust that car. That got him going on his all time favorite car, his '03 Grand Am. It took him about 15 minutes to pack 6 boxes (they had 2 ready to go), as we chatted about Grand Ams - and his current Chevy Cruze. Bottom line is he only charged me for 6 boxes, a full 25% discount. Nice guy, but I can't say I agree with his choice of cars. |
#42
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 22:00:36 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote: On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 16:12:12 -0500, advised: Find a GOOD shop - they do exist. My brother's old shop tire machine doesn't even need the centers removed from your BBS wheels, and the mounting tools never touch the rim. How on earth are you going to get to the lug bolts *without* removing the BBS hubcaps? It's impossible. I don't know what planet you live on, but the math is strange on your planet. Not ALL BBS wheels have the full caps . I was thinking the center caps used on many BBS wheels that have their nuts exposed Any hack that doesn't remove the weights BEFORE removing the tire should be shot. Well then, a *lot* of mechanics who use the dynamic balancing "spinners" need to be shot then. Every mechanic that ever worked for me removed all the weights before removing tires, and ballanced from scratch. We ballanced to 1/4 ounce The "high spot" marks oftem make virtually no difference I agree with you on this. Especially since it really only applies match mounting onto brand new wheels at the factory. If you just take in the rims to have tires mounted, what pressure are they supposed to use? When I have my four new tires mounted and balanced, I do what everyone else does, which is *drive* the car to the shop who mounts and balances them. By far not everyone does that. A LOT of people have summer and winter rims, and when one set gets worn to the point they need replacement, they drop those rims off at the shop to have new tires installed when they are removed to install the other seasonals. They know it's a BMW. They know that the rears are different pressures from the front. But they just put in whatever their compressor is set to for all cars. So they inflate them to 100-140PSI, do they???? That's what their compressor puts out. I don't blame them. They're lazy. It costs money to take time to look up the pressure per axle and to adjust the pressure. Like I said, if that's the service you are getting that's the service you are paying for. Go to a better level of shop. At easily $100 to $150 an hour, they don't bother with that. The mechanics make a hell of a lot less than that, and if you are paying that much and not getting proper service, raise hell and vote with your feet. Or if you use a slightly different sized tire? I don't use non-stock sizes but the fact remains that the tire shop puts the same pressure into everything. What part of that don't you understand? I don't understand where you are getting your work done and why you don't set them straight. You know how to bitch, so do it where it has a chance of doing some good. YOU are responsible for testing the pressure and setting to your requirements. Yup. We agree. If you want the job done right, you have to do it yourself. Anyone who doesn't torque the bolts properly should be shot. They are "hacks" not "technicians" They don't even *know* the torque for your car! How are they gonna know it? BULL****. They have a chart with the torque specs. Basically all steel rims with a given stud size use the same torque, and all alloys of that size another torque - and the torque goes up with the stud size. They have to flip through the Mitchells or the Internet, but they don't bother. That's my point. Then bitch at them and vote with your feet - but I'm almost 100% positive you will screw up more than they do. It's not hard to figure out that it's 84 foot pounds per lug bolt; but it takes time and they just torque everyone to 90 or 100 foot pounds. Bull**** You likely bent the rims hitting a curb or pothole - which requires more than just camber and toe to be checked on the alignment. That's a totally different story, but even then, with 5 very soft BBS stock rims on the bimmer, I can put the *best* rims on the front and the worst rim in the trunk, which takes time that the shops just aren't gonna do at $100 to $150 an hour shop rate. Again, bull****. You say $100 to $150 an hour - if they are on the clock, they get paid, so why not take the time??? If it's flat rate, it's a different story - but they are not charing by the "hour" but by the "labour unit" - which may or may not relate closely to an hour. Your problem is you are going to a cheapeassed schlock tire shop because you are too cheap to go to the dealership. (You call it the stealership) The stealer is upwards of $200/hour and to get your tires mounted and balanced at the stealer is just crazy for a 15 year old bimmer or a 20 year old Toyota. Then find a good independent GARAGE to do your work, not a tire "stealership" Find a garage to do the required repairs on your vehicle that you can trust - then trust them to do the job. That doesn't mean don't check up on them - it just means trust them to do the job, and let them know you are happy with them when they do, and that you are not when they don't I go to the Tire Rack Recommended Installers, which you can google and find yourself for your area. They're all about $18 to $40 per tire for a mounting and balancing in my area. I just ran a survey and posted it. And you are getting ****ty work for that price. "If you want first quality oats you have to be willing to pay first quality prices. If you are willing to settle for oats that have been through the horse, they do come a little cheaper" I don't understand how you can totally miss the point. Your sermon is tired and old and just does not fit the facts. What you say is a trite old wives tale which is meaningless except to old wives. You can do it yourself and get quality results (static only though). Or, you can pay someone and get quality results. How much you pay has absolutely no bearing on the quality. For example, I just called the first five of the Tire Rack recommended installers, and one charges $7 plus 70 cents tax for just *disposal* alone for each tire. I didn't say how much you pay necessarily has a bearing on the quality - only that if you just shop by price, don't be surprized if the oats have already been therough the horse.\ And it's NOT "old wive's tales" - I was a service manager at a dealership for 10 years - my retention rate was never under 90%, and exceded 100% for over 5 years. Loosely, that means if the dealership sold 300 cars over the last 3 years, more than 300 customers brought their cars to me for service at least twice a year. It's a bit more complex than that - but it's based on how many vehicles were still coming back for service 3 years after they were sold - and that was back when the warranty was only one year. That also means customers who didn't like the service they were getting at another dealer voted with their feet and came to me instead. And that was just our toyota customers. We also serviced a fair number of non-toyotas because we had an excellent reputation for service. There has got to be another dealership (or garage) who can provide that kind of service. I also had lots of customers like you. Bitch, Bitch Bitch BITCH. Didn't matter what you did for them, they were never satisfied - and I could see right away when they came in what kind of trouble they were going to be in most cases. They came in counting on being screwed - they expected it, and no matter what you did, they considered themselves to have been screwed. I had to tell a few of them if they didn't trust me to look after their vehicles, they were not only welcome, but encouraged, to take their bitchiung somewhere else. None charged less than $3.50 plus 35 cents tax for disposal (not Pep Boys, Autozone, or OReilly's either). Yet, I called Costco, and they're $1 plus ten cents tax. Do I get a better quality disposal for my seven dollars and seventy cents? No. Quality and price have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Period. People only use price as an indicator of quality because they're too stupid to use a more realistic measure (like, um, the quality of the work for example). If you have to ask "how much" for ANYTHING you have no business driving a Bimmer (or a Porsche, or an Audi or a Jag or a Range Rover or a - you get the picture??? You have so many old wive's tales muddling your thought process that you probably never once thought about what you're saying, to see if it actually makes any sense (using math that works on this planet). You're just saying stupid clich?s which mean absolutely nothing and really are no help to anyone at all. If you want to believe in stupid clich?s, that's fine, but let's not waste everyone's time discussing stupid clich?s that are worthless and meaningless to everyone but you. I appreciate the advice and help. I really do. But clich?s are not advice nor help. They're just wastes of our time. And those stupid clich?s that you spout are never true anyway. They're only true for idiots who don't know how to do math or who don't know what quality is (because that's too complicated for them than a stupid clich?, which is easy for them to understand). |
#43
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 22:00:39 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote: On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 15:56:13 -0500, advised: By the time you are done you will have spent as much as having all your tires professionally changed for the rest of your life (unless you are a teenager with a heavy foot) and you STILL won't be able to change yourtires ---- What math do you use on your planet? 1. Pop your zip code into the Tire Rack Recommended Installer engine: http://www.tirerack.com/installer/In...?affiliate=HJ7 2. Call up the first five in the list 3. Tell us what you averaged I just priced out getting tires mounted and balanced and it's never less than $18 per tire where I live and as much as $38.50 at the first five of the tire rack recommended installers for my zip code.] At $20 per tire (which is a reasonable estimate and which was my initial assessment) it would take two years to get my money back on $200 worth of tools. That's assuming a new set of tires every two years for two cars, and one flat each for each car (which is pretty much what I average). My math is pretty simple, and it checks out, so, what math are you using that says the payback on $200 worth of tools is the rest of my life? Am I only going to live two more years? Nothing wrong with doing you own tires if you want to. |
#44
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 22:00:38 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote: On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 20:25:01 +0000, Stormin' Norman advised: Which bead breaker do you use? Is it this one? http://i.cubeupload.com/ics54M.jpg Yes, except the base is painted orange, I assume it is the older version. Thanks for that information. Why does your experience totally clash with that of though? I suspect Clare has never actually changed a tire using these tools where you have? Ha Ha Ha. I've changed tires with nothing but tire irons. I've used the cheap manual changers. I've used "professional" manual changers made in the fifties, and I've used several different high tech power changers. I've changed tires from 4" to 50+ inch tires - car tires from 10 inch Mini tires to 20 inchers - including clinchers, as well as split rim and split ring truck tires, and tractor and industrial equipment tires on 2 continents, and on vehicles from 1928 vintage to the 2000's. I haven't done it for a living for the last 26 years or so, but I've still done a fair number of them. Would I waste my money on one of those tire changers to do my own? Not as long as I lived within 10 miles of a real tire machine. I've balanced tires with bubble ballancers, high speed on-car ballancers, high speed and low speed off-car balancers I've aligned cars with clip-on bubble level aligners, visualiners, acculiners, and computerized alignment machines, Would I use a bubble balancer to balance the wheels on my own vehicles today? Not on your life. When I change my own steering parts I line the front up to "reasonably close" and then drive it over to a local shop and pay them to do an accurate alignment. - and i KNOW how to do it. One place I worked we had a "slip guage" that told us when we drove a car into the shop if the alignment was apppreciably out - and that test was done free of charge to every vehicle that came in the door. |
#45
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 22:00:39 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote: On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 15:56:13 -0500, advised: By the time you are done you will have spent as much as having all your tires professionally changed for the rest of your life (unless you are a teenager with a heavy foot) and you STILL won't be able to change yourtires ---- What math do you use on your planet? 1. Pop your zip code into the Tire Rack Recommended Installer engine: http://www.tirerack.com/installer/In...?affiliate=HJ7 2. Call up the first five in the list 3. Tell us what you averaged I just priced out getting tires mounted and balanced and it's never less than $18 per tire where I live and as much as $38.50 at the first five of the tire rack recommended installers for my zip code.] At $20 per tire (which is a reasonable estimate and which was my initial assessment) it would take two years to get my money back on $200 worth of tools. That's assuming a new set of tires every two years for two cars, and one flat each for each car (which is pretty much what I average). My math is pretty simple, and it checks out, so, what math are you using that says the payback on $200 worth of tools is the rest of my life? Am I only going to live two more years? I buy my tires from a reputable local dealer who gets to make the markup on the tires, and charges me $15 canadian to install and balance them. I'm not a cheap-ass who believes he can always get a better deal on-line. I give my business to local businesses - owned by my neighbours, who employ my neighbours and pay local taxes in my community.. That goes for tires, appliances, and just about everything else I buy. If it is available locally, I buy locally. I'm not a rich man - but I make my living here, and I believe my nieghbours should be able to make their living here too. That means sometimes I pay a few dollars more than buying from out of the area - but on the whole I believe I'm getting as good value for my money locally as I would getr anywhere. As far as getting your money back, I truly don't believe you will ever make your money back on your DIY tire changing and alignment schemes - because you WILL screw up more than you save. Virtually guaranteed. You have proven you don't understand what is involved. |
#46
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 22:00:38 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote: Why does your experience totally clash with that of though? I suspect Clare has never actually changed a tire using these tools where you have? Feeble attempt at a troll. Keep digging. You will post 500 threads before you understand. I guess you think those clowns at HF have better advice for you, Go for it. |
#47
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Mon, 12 Dec 2016 23:45:12 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron advised:
I have a question about mounting and balancing tires at home that didn't come up when I was researching this problem. If you have never mounted or balanced your own passenger-car tires, then you won't know the answers (most likely) but if you have, you'll know because you must have solved this problem. I have the Harbor Freight Pittsburgh Manual Tire Changer HF item #62317 which is mounted in concrete so that it is stable. That tire changer comes with a "bead breaker" but the bead is just not breaking when I used it today! http://i.cubeupload.com/f8FCTC.jpg I also bought a couple of Harbor Freight item #61603 Pittsburgh 24 in. General Purpose Tire Irons. http://i.cubeupload.com/7q7Tq0.jpg The problem is that the harbor freight tire changer bead breaker just seems to slip off when following the instructions. http://i.cubeupload.com/7CdvVu.jpg I would be glad to use the the Harbor Freight item #67403 Tire Bead Breaker with Swan Neck: http://i.cubeupload.com/Qcg2YR.jpg But it doesn't come with instructions. Have you used these goose-neck bead breakers on passenger tires? Which way does the goose-neck go? a. It can't fit under the rim with the finger pointing up, and, b. It can't fit under the bead with the finger pointing down. So how did you use this bead breaker anyway? The main problem is simply that I have a tough tire (a 108T, which is a pretty thick SUV tire compared to much easier passenger car tires), and that the harbor freight tire-changing tool requires modification to work on such tough tires without bending. I took my time to document what I learned so that the next person who uses the same equipment can benefit from the 20/20 hindsight this tutorial provides them for how to use the harbor freight tire changer to: a. Break the lower bead of the old tire away from the wheel b. Break the upper bead of the old tire away from the wheel c. Remove the upper bead of the old tire from the wheel d. Remove the lower bead of the old tire from the wheel e. Remove the old Schrader valve and stem assembly f. Insert the new Schrader valve and stem assembly g. Place the lower bead of the new tire on the wheel h. Place the upper bead of the new tire on the wheel i. Align the red (or yellow) dot to the valve stem (or to the wheel match-mounting mark) j. Seat the beads by filling the tire with air k. Check the valve stem clearance, match mounting marks, and adjust pressure to normal psi The goal is that they start knowing all the things that I just learned today, which make the job far easier and which makes the tools work far better. The first thing I did was straighten out the bent bead-breaking wedge bars, which was so easy to do one might conclude that they're actually made of rubber. http://i.cubeupload.com/JfWmot.jpg What the bead breaker shovel needs, from the start, is a bit of support, which is shown here (but after using it, I realized it needs to be about 2 inches from the top of the wedge to leave clearance for the rim of the wheel when breaking beads). Luckily this wedge simply moved out of the way because it was just press fit in and wrapped with solid 120V copper wire. (Given more time, I would not weaken the bars any further by drilling bolt holes - but - I would strap in a rectangular block of wood instead of this fence post, which just happened to be handy.) http://i.cubeupload.com/hzdzpZ.jpg I started on the inside bead, which I'm told, is the harder one to break. By moving the Clovis pin to the outside adjustment hole (making the angle about 90 degrees to the tire), and with this artificially strengthened wedge, I was (finally) able to apply (far) more force on the 108T tire bead without the wedge slipping off the bead itself. http://i.cubeupload.com/VIu5nb.jpg The fence post got in the way of the rim as shown in this photo, so, if you permanently mount it, make sure it's shorter by about 2 or 3 inches than the space allotted, and make sure it's mounted up high and not low where mine is now. Notice how the wooden block hits the rim? You don't want that. You want the block to stay higher up, away from the rim by a couple of inches. But, in this case, it didn't matter because the block moved when pressure was placed on it. http://i.cubeupload.com/kYwRJt.jpg The stronger wedge plus the 90 degree angle from using the furthest-out of the 3 adjustment pin holes allowed me to apply enough force to finally pop the inside-rim bead of the admittedly strong 108T tire sidewall. http://i.cubeupload.com/tMHBFS.jpg Only after I popped the underside tire bead did I try to remove the lever arm, where I found that it bent at about a 10 or 15 degree angle. It took that much force, but you have to also realize that this harbor freight metal is soft as rubber. http://i.cubeupload.com/3q4ZU3.jpg After straightening the bent tire iron as much as I could, and after moving the clovis pin to the center hole to get more of an angle, and using a tire iron to keep a depressed bead down, I easily popped the upper bead. http://i.cubeupload.com/k527JN.jpg Placing the tire iron flat step with the step side up, allowed me to start spinning the top bead off the wheel rim without lubrication: http://i.cubeupload.com/Zf44Tl.jpg Adding dish detergent helped a lot to spin the top bead off, where I'd say it's a requirement to have lubrication but everything gets slippery, even the tools, so try to keep it off the tools. http://i.cubeupload.com/hdveUJ.jpg You repeat the process for the lower bead, with the tire iron again going in step-side up as in the first bead (the same way as it did for the upper bead). http://i.cubeupload.com/5BIFb7.jpg Once the tire was off the rim, I cut off the old 1-1/4 inch tire valve from the underside with a utility knife, where the old valve was in surprisingly good shape, so I might have kept it had I not wanted to test out the 4-way valve-seating tool and the fit of the longer new 1-1/2 inch long tire valves. http://i.cubeupload.com/f5L099.jpg After lubricating the new 1-1/2 inch valve with dish soap, I threaded on the 4-way tool and pulled it through so easily that it was shockingly simple. Later you'll see I have a much better idea to replace that silly 4-way tool that I already have in my compressor toolbox, so I never needed the silly 4-way tool in the first place, but I didn't realize that until later. http://i.cubeupload.com/goBGRq.jpg Only later, when I was filling the tire with air, did I realize that a handy tool for pulling the valve would have been my compressor football/soccer-ball needle-valve tool, with the needle valve removed, which spins onto the valve threads with ease and which has a nice trigger handle to grab onto so that the valve can be pulled into place. But I didn't think of this at the time I was seating the first valve, so, it's just a lesson learned for the future, and for someone else who happens to read this for hints on how to do the job without that silly 4-way valve seating tool (which is never needed). http://i.cubeupload.com/Zr23tu.jpg The bottom bead of the new tire went on 3/4 of the way by hand, and then with a two-foot tire iron, the last quarter went on relatively easily. http://i.cubeupload.com/mA6HJx.jpg It's important to remember to flip the tool and set the hook side appropriately because you're not going to seat the top bead unless you have the tool oriented this way exactly. (Lord knows what the other tip is use for.) http://i.cubeupload.com/3xskBg.jpg You'll want to ensure you seat the bead at the tire-valve first because that last quarter gets dicey where you have to use the most strength in the whole job, and where a slippery bar gets obnoxious. I had to vise grip the end of the bar that I was holding because it kept twisting off the bead but with vise grips, it was manageable. At the very least, you'll want to use vise grips to hold the slippery upper bead from slipping off as you try to force the last 1/4 of the upper bead onto the rim. http://i.cubeupload.com/r6g3JG.jpg This is the point where you're extremely glad the tool is firmly bolted to cement, as the force is as much as you can give it. Even so, I found I had to ditch the slippery but huge red pry bar and resort to two 24-inch tire irons to leverage the remaining upper bead over onto the wheel rim. http://i.cubeupload.com/czF7Qu.jpg It's at this point, before you fill the tire with air, that you line up the red dot to the match-mounting marks, or, the yellow dot to the valve stem (if there is no red dot) or if there is a red dot but no match mounting marks, then you line up the red dot to the valve stem. After doing that, I first removed the inner valve stem of the Schrader valve and tried to use my latching air chuck, but without the valve stem, the darn chuck wouldn't pass any air (so I gave up on this method). http://i.cubeupload.com/WJGeQr.jpg It was dark and drizzly when I just decided to put the valve stem back in and put the latching chuck back on (although later I found a neat trick that I will try with the next tire). It turns out that having the valve stem in or out really made no difference whatsoever, it seems, with respect to getting the air inside and getting the bead to seat. The trick to seating the bead is really to have two hands free to hold the tire edges and jiggle, wiggle, coerce, tug and jerk the tire as it's loose when you're trying to get the bead to seat. Once you get the tire in a certain position, you can just feel it starting to blow up, where it seats and finally pops a few times as you work up the pressure to 40, 50, and 60 psi. http://i.cubeupload.com/5RH8RC.jpg Further proof that the silly 4-way tool is worthless is the fact that it doesn't have a pin for letting the air out of the valve to drop the pressure down from 60 psi back to 40 where it belongs. Rummaging around in my compressor kit, I found this needle-valve which is normally used to inflate footballs and soccer balls, but which deflates the tire without sharp points like those that are on the silly and useless 4-way tool. http://i.cubeupload.com/aS0xdG.jpg It was at this point that I realized that the football/soccerball inflator handle can be used for the next tire to inflate the tire quickly without the schrader valve being in place, so I will try it this way on the next tire to see if it works. (It may require a third hand to press the trigger, but I can probably wire the trigger pressed because both hands will be needed to coerce the tire into momentarily seating while the air is filling it up.) http://i.cubeupload.com/DZJO2y.jpg At this point it's time to make two checks of the valve stem. Ensure the red (radial runout) dot is at the valve stem Ensure with a straight edge that the valve doesn't stick out past the rim Since it was dark, I didn't bother looking for match mounting marks on the old rim, so, I simply lined up the red dot with the tire valve since the red dot indicates the tire's high point for radial runout and radial force variation, which takes precedence over the yellow dot which indicates the tire's light spot which would have been paired with the valve stem on the wheel which is the wheel's heavy spot had the red dot not existed. http://i.cubeupload.com/1dxFGN.jpg |
#48
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 14:06:51 -0600, dpb advised:
at $60+/- at the moment...keep watching/looking and can eventually find a usable changer that will actually work. I found a way to shore up the harbor freight tire changer so that it works on the tougher 75-series 108T SUV tires (60 series passenger tires would be far easier) and posted that as a response to the original post. One question though, is what tool do you guys recommend for removing the old crimp on wheel weights? http://i.cubeupload.com/0D6Lnt.jpg |
#49
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 19:46:10 -0500, advised:
Not ALL BBS wheels have the full caps . I was thinking the center caps used on many BBS wheels that have their nuts exposed Fair enough. But anyway, the tire shops I've been to don't even carry the five-dollar BBS plastic hubcap wrench. You know what they do instead of twisting off the plastic hubcaps? They tear them off with a screwdriver. Ask me how I know. Every mechanic that ever worked for me removed all the weights before removing tires, and ballanced from scratch. We ballanced to 1/4 ounce Fair enough. That's how it's *supposed* to be done. But it isn't always done that way (ask me how I know). By far not everyone does that. A LOT of people have summer and winter rims, and when one set gets worn to the point they need replacement, they drop those rims off at the shop to have new tires installed when they are removed to install the other seasonals. I know that. I used to live in cold country. It makes sense to keep a set of rims around for that purpose. It also might make sense to mount and balance your own tires for this purpose, as it would vastly make the payback period sooner since you don't have to spend money on four wheel rims (depends on the cost of the rims, of course). So they inflate them to 100-140PSI, do they???? That's what their compressor puts out. C'mon. Don't take me for a fool. There are things called R-E-G-U-L-A-T-O-R-S on the compressor output. Even you must be aware of that. Like I said, if that's the service you are getting that's the service you are paying for. Go to a better level of shop. These are *all* either Costco, or Tire Rack Recommended Installers. My theory is that they *know* how to change tires, but they also know that almost nobody who comes to them knows how tires are supposed to be changed. They skip steps to save time, where, for them, time is money. It's that simple. The mechanics make a hell of a lot less than that, and if you are paying that much and not getting proper service, raise hell and vote with your feet. I *am* voting with my feet. 1. The 460/A/A tires were bought for $68 2. We didn't pay any shipping fees 3. I changed the first tire today https://groups.google.com/forum/#!or...o/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ What's next? a. Change the other 4 tires (I have to move the spare off the rim) b. Balance all five tires (including the spare) c. Align the front camber, caster, and toe at home I don't understand where you are getting your work done and why you don't set them straight. You know how to bitch, so do it where it has a chance of doing some good. Heh heh heh heh ... I have *bitched* as you suggested, and gotten my tires mounted for free. I even was instrumental in getting a tire shop kicked out of the Tire Rack Recommended Program because I documented their foibles. But I'd rather not bitch. I'd rather just get the job done right, at home. A. Mounting and repairing tires B. Balancing tires C. Alignment Those three things, I feel, everyone should know how to do since they only require basic capabilities and basic tools. BULL****. They have a chart with the torque specs. Actually, they don't. Long story, I once had a car that was older aligned at Sears and they didn't do anything. They charged me, but they didn't do anything. When I complained, a day later (after checking the bolts because I had painted them after contemplating doing the alignment myself after replacing the tierod ends, pitman arm, and idler arm), they found the only thing correct was the toein, which I had done myself. When they questioned the tech, he said he didn't have charts for such an old vehicle, so he just didn't do anything. How many people have they cheated? Thousands I'll bet. How many people are they *still* cheating? Thousands I bet. Why? Because they're too lazy to look things up. Basically all steel rims with a given stud size use the same torque, and all alloys of that size another torque - and the torque goes up with the stud size. Dunno that. All I know is that my bimmer is 84 foot pounds for the lug bolts. Then bitch at them and vote with your feet - but I'm almost 100% positive you will screw up more than they do. It will be a steep learning curve, but I've already mounted my first tire and I'm sure I'll just get exponentially better with the next four. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!or...o/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ Then I will balance them. Then I will align the car. Shouldn't be too hard, but as I said, there will be a steep learning curve. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions when the time comes. But right now, I'm giving back to the team, as all good Usenet posters should. That is why I wrote this up: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!or...o/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ Again, bull****. You say $100 to $150 an hour - if they are on the clock, they get paid, so why not take the time??? You don't seem to have any clue that management won't let them spend an hour or two per vehicle to change the tires. If it's flat rate, it's a different story - but they are not charing by the "hour" but by the "labour unit" - which may or may not relate closely to an hour. What you seem to be completely ignorant of is the business model that the management follows, which is that they need to get cars in and out of the bays in order to charge for things done. You amaze me sometimes. Did you ever work in any company that charged for the job done? Then find a good independent GARAGE to do your work, not a tire "stealership" Find a garage to do the required repairs on your vehicle that you can trust - then trust them to do the job. That doesn't mean don't check up on them - it just means trust them to do the job, and let them know you are happy with them when they do, and that you are not when they don't What you post is perfectly apropos for the ladies crocheting group, but this is a home repair group, where people do their own stuff. Nobody is telling you that YOU have to change your tires yourself, but it's perfectly apropos to ask here. Plus, I'm clearly doing the job since you can see the photos. How many people are that good that they give back to Usenet with well documented step by step photo filled how tos? I'm one of the best. I just haven't changed tires before. Then I will balance them. And then I will align the vehicle. It's not rocket science but it does take a team, which is why I am here asking those of you who have done it before for advice. And you are getting ****ty work for that price. Which is why I am doing it myself. I didn't say how much you pay necessarily has a bearing on the quality - only that if you just shop by price, don't be surprized if the oats have already been therough the horse.\ What's the difference between a Nexen NPriz AH5 sized P225/75R15 from Tire Rack, SimpleTire, or (assuming Costco sells it), Costco? Answer? Price. That's about it. Especially if I am going to install them myself. One price could be double the other. The price has absolutely no bearing on quality. Anyone who says it does, knows absolutely nothing. They just use price because it's an easy number to compare things. They simply assume that if TireRack sells the tire for $100 and Costco sells it for $120, then Costco must have a better quality tire. But it's the same tire no matter where you buy it. The price has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality. The quality has everything to do with quality. It's really that simple. |
#50
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 16:36:56 -0600, RonNNN advised:
From what I've read from you, you don't appear qualified to do *any* job "right". JMHO How did I do here? https://groups.google.com/forum/#!or...o/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ |
#51
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 17:16:44 -0800, Oren advised:
Feeble attempt at a troll. Keep digging. You will post 500 threads before you understand. I guess you think those clowns at HF have better advice for you, Go for it. Oren. You are dead wrong. But, let me prove it. Do you see this post as a troll? Why or why not? https://groups.google.com/forum/#!or...o/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ |
#52
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
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#53
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 23:38:36 +0000, Stormin' Norman advised:
I have taken tires and rims to Costco and asked them to dismount and mount other tires and they were happy to do it without me having purchased the tires from them. One time I gave the guy at the counter a case of St. Pauli Girl beer and they did it all for free...... Don't get me wrong. I love Costco. In fact, I'm gonna take the old tires to them for $1 plus ten cents tax where they will dispose of them for me. If I took them to the local tire shop nearby me, it would cost $7 per tire plus 70 cents tax (I hate that California taxes everything multiple times where tires are taxed three times!) Even if I took them to the local Pep Boys, it would still cost $3.50 plus sales tax of about 35 cents. Costco is the best for some things. However, the one thing Costco sucks at is short lines & product selection. I have gotten tires at Costco quite a few times, but I just gave up. It takes far too long. Never less than an hour wait, and often two or three hours (especially when they run their annual tire sales). Plus, Costco has a sucky selection of tires, and they won't mount any tires you bring to them (I'm surprised your Costco did that because mine won't). But they do give you free rotations and lovely green nitrogen air. But overall, Costco isn't cost effective compared to what I can get online. But I love Costco for other things (like diapers, similac, roasted chicken, etc.). |
#54
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 20:11:45 -0500, advised:
I buy my tires from a reputable local dealer who gets to make the markup on the tires, and charges me $15 canadian to install and balance them. I think we got a far better deal than you do, because we *thought* about the problem set ahead of time, so as to maximize what our money buys. For example, we chose the tires for their $68 price, and for their 460 traction, A treadwear, and A temperature ratings, based on the OEM specs from Toyota of a 102S P225/75R15 tire for the OEM wheels. Normally we use Tire Rack but https://simpletire.com/ gave them to us for free shipping (which saved $16 per tire right off the bat). It did take about 10 days (including the weekend) so that was one drawback, but in general, a few days extra time isn't all that critical when deciding to replace a set of tires. So, the total cost for 4 460/A/A tires was, literally, $68 per tire. I'm not a cheap-ass who believes he can always get a better deal on-line. I give my business to local businesses - owned by my neighbours, who employ my neighbours and pay local taxes in my community.. Again, you are filled to the brim with cliches, but you're welcome to them. This is a *technical* question, not a philosophical one. You can wax philosophically on alt.philosophy or alt.economic.theory. That goes for tires, appliances, and just about everything else I buy. If it is available locally, I buy locally. I'm not a rich man - but I make my living here, and I believe my nieghbours should be able to make their living here too. That means sometimes I pay a few dollars more than buying from out of the area - but on the whole I believe I'm getting as good value for my money locally as I would getr anywhere. You probably should be waxing on alt.philosophy for this post. As far as getting your money back, I truly don't believe you will ever make your money back on your DIY tire changing and alignment schemes - because you WILL screw up more than you save. Virtually guaranteed. You have proven you don't understand what is involved. Heh heh heh heh ... you make me laugh. You're actually *scared* of people like me. Because I can do things that you wouldn't dare do yourself. I may start out ignorant, but I end up knowing far more than you ever will. That's not because I'm smarter than you are; I'm just far more willing to learn than you are. And, I'm certainly far more willing to give back since I know that the power of Usenet is not only being able to ask experts questions, but to also give back so that the next person stands on our shoulders. Here's an example of classic Usenet giving back to the team: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!or...o/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ |
#55
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 19:01:48 -0600, Vic Smith advised:
Nothing wrong with doing you own tires if you want to. Thanks for the encouragement. This is alt.home.repair so it's not alt.ladies.cardgames. I presume you guys do things. Changing a tire can't be difficult for most of you guys. Anyway, with all your great advice, I was able to redesign the tire-changing machine and get the job done. I wrote up the steps I used over here so that others can start where I left off (20/20 hindsight being what it is, I would have done things differently so I want others to benefit from my experience): https://groups.google.com/forum/#!or...o/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ One minor remaining question is what tool do you guys use to remove and replace the crimp-on weights? http://i.cubeupload.com/0D6Lnt.jpg |
#56
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 06:35:13 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote: On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 23:38:36 +0000, Stormin' Norman advised: I have taken tires and rims to Costco and asked them to dismount and mount other tires and they were happy to do it without me having purchased the tires from them. One time I gave the guy at the counter a case of St. Pauli Girl beer and they did it all for free...... Don't get me wrong. I love Costco. In fact, I'm gonna take the old tires to them for $1 plus ten cents tax where they will dispose of them for me. If I took them to the local tire shop nearby me, it would cost $7 per tire plus 70 cents tax (I hate that California taxes everything multiple times where tires are taxed three times!) Even if I took them to the local Pep Boys, it would still cost $3.50 plus sales tax of about 35 cents. Costco is the best for some things. However, the one thing Costco sucks at is short lines & product selection. I have gotten tires at Costco quite a few times, but I just gave up. It takes far too long. Never less than an hour wait, and often two or three hours (especially when they run their annual tire sales). Plus, Costco has a sucky selection of tires, and they won't mount any tires you bring to them (I'm surprised your Costco did that because mine won't). But they do give you free rotations and lovely green nitrogen air. But overall, Costco isn't cost effective compared to what I can get online. But I love Costco for other things (like diapers, similac, roasted chicken, etc.). Frank, I am not trying to sell you on Costco. I simply related my personal experience. I also have excellent luck with Discount Tire, in this part of the country they are a giant in the tire retailing business and will beat any price you bring them, even the online sellers. |
#57
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 13:24:39 +0000, Stormin' Norman advised:
Frank, I am not trying to sell you on Costco. I simply related my personal experience. I also have excellent luck with Discount Tire, in this part of the country they are a giant in the tire retailing business and will beat any price you bring them, even the online sellers. I understand, and appreciate your recommendation. I used to do all the things everyone else does, so I'm familiar with every way to buy tires (if I skipped a method, let me know). 1. When I was a kid in college, I bought tires at junk yards right off of junked cars, but I stopped doing that when my five-dollar tires wobbled while driving. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out what the vibration was, because the tires looked fine. People would point to my tires as they drove by, when one day, a guy followed me off the highway and told me my tires were flexing like a balloon. Replacing those junk-yard tires solved my vibration problem; but it could have been (much) worse. 2. Swearing off junk-yard tires, I would then buy tires on sale at Sears. They sold them mostly by warranty (of all things). So I would buy the tires based on warranty as I recall (although this was in the day of bias ply so I don't remember all the details). I do remember looking at a wall of mounted tires at sears and trying to figure out what was the best tire (which was basically impossible to do that way - but I didn't realize it at the time). 3. Over the years, I learned about TireRack from the Motor Trend and Car and Driver car magazine advertisements (there were two main companies that always advertised with a full page of teeny tiny print that I could actually read without glasses in those days before the Internet). It was still impossible to select among tires, but at least the price was a *lot* lower than it was at Sears. Tire Rack would ship to the recommended installer and the installer would give me the Tire Rack price. 4. At some point, radial tires showed up (which lasted longer than the 25K miles that bias ply lasted) and UTQG appeared as did Price Club (now Costco), so at least I could now select tires from the floor-to-ceiling piles at Costco by the UTQG numbers (and not by a silly warranty figure). 5. Finally, I got used to buying stuff on the Internet, and that was it for buying anything locally, simply because of the stupendously huge price difference. Sure, almost everyone will *match* almost everyone else, but what good is *matching*? I never understood price matching. What's the appeal? Under most circumstances, they match the same price you can get elsewhere. Um. So what? That's not any better. And, often it's worse (because of sales tax and selection considerations.) The *only* reason, IMHO, to price match, is if there is *something* you get for free out of the price match. But if all you get is the same tire at the same price that you would have gotten anyway - what's the benefit of price matching? I'd rather give my business to the guy who advertises and sells at the lowest price than to the guy who advertises and sells at a higher price who only drops his price when you put a gun to his head. Of course, if you get *something* for free from price matching, then it makes total sense. Many examples can occur, but I'll just flesh out a typical one which is that, say, you can get tires in 10 days from company X online, where the total cost (let's say) is $400 for 4 tires, shipped, taxed, and installed. If you walk up to a tire shop, and say "will you match this price" and if they match the *price*, then you're getting something for free because you don't have to wait the 10 days for shipping. So, to me, price matching is utterly useless unless you get something for free out of the deal, other than price. To me, *price beating* is what I like! If someone says they will *beat* the Internet price by, say, 10 percent, that's worth switching. But just price matching? Naaah. That's like replacing your favorite toolbox hammer with another exactly similar hammer. There's no benefit whatsoever to the swap, and the original hammer deserves a bit more respect. |
#58
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 05:34:15 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote: By George - when he stops to think he actually CAN figure things out!!!!!! From the questions origionally asked it appeared he could not find his ass with both hands - He has surprised me. My appologies - seriously. but I'd still be wary of using THAT tire changer on the expensive alloy rims without some more "modifications" You really surprised me Frank -- Kudos. I'm man enought o admit when I've been wrong..... On Mon, 12 Dec 2016 23:45:12 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron advised: I have a question about mounting and balancing tires at home that didn't come up when I was researching this problem. If you have never mounted or balanced your own passenger-car tires, then you won't know the answers (most likely) but if you have, you'll know because you must have solved this problem. I have the Harbor Freight Pittsburgh Manual Tire Changer HF item #62317 which is mounted in concrete so that it is stable. That tire changer comes with a "bead breaker" but the bead is just not breaking when I used it today! http://i.cubeupload.com/f8FCTC.jpg I also bought a couple of Harbor Freight item #61603 Pittsburgh 24 in. General Purpose Tire Irons. http://i.cubeupload.com/7q7Tq0.jpg The problem is that the harbor freight tire changer bead breaker just seems to slip off when following the instructions. http://i.cubeupload.com/7CdvVu.jpg I would be glad to use the the Harbor Freight item #67403 Tire Bead Breaker with Swan Neck: http://i.cubeupload.com/Qcg2YR.jpg But it doesn't come with instructions. Have you used these goose-neck bead breakers on passenger tires? Which way does the goose-neck go? a. It can't fit under the rim with the finger pointing up, and, b. It can't fit under the bead with the finger pointing down. So how did you use this bead breaker anyway? The main problem is simply that I have a tough tire (a 108T, which is a pretty thick SUV tire compared to much easier passenger car tires), and that the harbor freight tire-changing tool requires modification to work on such tough tires without bending. I took my time to document what I learned so that the next person who uses the same equipment can benefit from the 20/20 hindsight this tutorial provides them for how to use the harbor freight tire changer to: a. Break the lower bead of the old tire away from the wheel b. Break the upper bead of the old tire away from the wheel c. Remove the upper bead of the old tire from the wheel d. Remove the lower bead of the old tire from the wheel e. Remove the old Schrader valve and stem assembly f. Insert the new Schrader valve and stem assembly g. Place the lower bead of the new tire on the wheel h. Place the upper bead of the new tire on the wheel i. Align the red (or yellow) dot to the valve stem (or to the wheel match-mounting mark) j. Seat the beads by filling the tire with air k. Check the valve stem clearance, match mounting marks, and adjust pressure to normal psi The goal is that they start knowing all the things that I just learned today, which make the job far easier and which makes the tools work far better. The first thing I did was straighten out the bent bead-breaking wedge bars, which was so easy to do one might conclude that they're actually made of rubber. http://i.cubeupload.com/JfWmot.jpg What the bead breaker shovel needs, from the start, is a bit of support, which is shown here (but after using it, I realized it needs to be about 2 inches from the top of the wedge to leave clearance for the rim of the wheel when breaking beads). Luckily this wedge simply moved out of the way because it was just press fit in and wrapped with solid 120V copper wire. (Given more time, I would not weaken the bars any further by drilling bolt holes - but - I would strap in a rectangular block of wood instead of this fence post, which just happened to be handy.) http://i.cubeupload.com/hzdzpZ.jpg I started on the inside bead, which I'm told, is the harder one to break. By moving the Clovis pin to the outside adjustment hole (making the angle about 90 degrees to the tire), and with this artificially strengthened wedge, I was (finally) able to apply (far) more force on the 108T tire bead without the wedge slipping off the bead itself. http://i.cubeupload.com/VIu5nb.jpg The fence post got in the way of the rim as shown in this photo, so, if you permanently mount it, make sure it's shorter by about 2 or 3 inches than the space allotted, and make sure it's mounted up high and not low where mine is now. Notice how the wooden block hits the rim? You don't want that. You want the block to stay higher up, away from the rim by a couple of inches. But, in this case, it didn't matter because the block moved when pressure was placed on it. http://i.cubeupload.com/kYwRJt.jpg The stronger wedge plus the 90 degree angle from using the furthest-out of the 3 adjustment pin holes allowed me to apply enough force to finally pop the inside-rim bead of the admittedly strong 108T tire sidewall. http://i.cubeupload.com/tMHBFS.jpg Only after I popped the underside tire bead did I try to remove the lever arm, where I found that it bent at about a 10 or 15 degree angle. It took that much force, but you have to also realize that this harbor freight metal is soft as rubber. http://i.cubeupload.com/3q4ZU3.jpg After straightening the bent tire iron as much as I could, and after moving the clovis pin to the center hole to get more of an angle, and using a tire iron to keep a depressed bead down, I easily popped the upper bead. http://i.cubeupload.com/k527JN.jpg Placing the tire iron flat step with the step side up, allowed me to start spinning the top bead off the wheel rim without lubrication: http://i.cubeupload.com/Zf44Tl.jpg Adding dish detergent helped a lot to spin the top bead off, where I'd say it's a requirement to have lubrication but everything gets slippery, even the tools, so try to keep it off the tools. http://i.cubeupload.com/hdveUJ.jpg You repeat the process for the lower bead, with the tire iron again going in step-side up as in the first bead (the same way as it did for the upper bead). http://i.cubeupload.com/5BIFb7.jpg Once the tire was off the rim, I cut off the old 1-1/4 inch tire valve from the underside with a utility knife, where the old valve was in surprisingly good shape, so I might have kept it had I not wanted to test out the 4-way valve-seating tool and the fit of the longer new 1-1/2 inch long tire valves. http://i.cubeupload.com/f5L099.jpg After lubricating the new 1-1/2 inch valve with dish soap, I threaded on the 4-way tool and pulled it through so easily that it was shockingly simple. Later you'll see I have a much better idea to replace that silly 4-way tool that I already have in my compressor toolbox, so I never needed the silly 4-way tool in the first place, but I didn't realize that until later. http://i.cubeupload.com/goBGRq.jpg Only later, when I was filling the tire with air, did I realize that a handy tool for pulling the valve would have been my compressor football/soccer-ball needle-valve tool, with the needle valve removed, which spins onto the valve threads with ease and which has a nice trigger handle to grab onto so that the valve can be pulled into place. But I didn't think of this at the time I was seating the first valve, so, it's just a lesson learned for the future, and for someone else who happens to read this for hints on how to do the job without that silly 4-way valve seating tool (which is never needed). http://i.cubeupload.com/Zr23tu.jpg The bottom bead of the new tire went on 3/4 of the way by hand, and then with a two-foot tire iron, the last quarter went on relatively easily. http://i.cubeupload.com/mA6HJx.jpg It's important to remember to flip the tool and set the hook side appropriately because you're not going to seat the top bead unless you have the tool oriented this way exactly. (Lord knows what the other tip is use for.) http://i.cubeupload.com/3xskBg.jpg You'll want to ensure you seat the bead at the tire-valve first because that last quarter gets dicey where you have to use the most strength in the whole job, and where a slippery bar gets obnoxious. I had to vise grip the end of the bar that I was holding because it kept twisting off the bead but with vise grips, it was manageable. At the very least, you'll want to use vise grips to hold the slippery upper bead from slipping off as you try to force the last 1/4 of the upper bead onto the rim. http://i.cubeupload.com/r6g3JG.jpg This is the point where you're extremely glad the tool is firmly bolted to cement, as the force is as much as you can give it. Even so, I found I had to ditch the slippery but huge red pry bar and resort to two 24-inch tire irons to leverage the remaining upper bead over onto the wheel rim. http://i.cubeupload.com/czF7Qu.jpg It's at this point, before you fill the tire with air, that you line up the red dot to the match-mounting marks, or, the yellow dot to the valve stem (if there is no red dot) or if there is a red dot but no match mounting marks, then you line up the red dot to the valve stem. After doing that, I first removed the inner valve stem of the Schrader valve and tried to use my latching air chuck, but without the valve stem, the darn chuck wouldn't pass any air (so I gave up on this method). http://i.cubeupload.com/WJGeQr.jpg It was dark and drizzly when I just decided to put the valve stem back in and put the latching chuck back on (although later I found a neat trick that I will try with the next tire). It turns out that having the valve stem in or out really made no difference whatsoever, it seems, with respect to getting the air inside and getting the bead to seat. The trick to seating the bead is really to have two hands free to hold the tire edges and jiggle, wiggle, coerce, tug and jerk the tire as it's loose when you're trying to get the bead to seat. Once you get the tire in a certain position, you can just feel it starting to blow up, where it seats and finally pops a few times as you work up the pressure to 40, 50, and 60 psi. http://i.cubeupload.com/5RH8RC.jpg Further proof that the silly 4-way tool is worthless is the fact that it doesn't have a pin for letting the air out of the valve to drop the pressure down from 60 psi back to 40 where it belongs. Rummaging around in my compressor kit, I found this needle-valve which is normally used to inflate footballs and soccer balls, but which deflates the tire without sharp points like those that are on the silly and useless 4-way tool. http://i.cubeupload.com/aS0xdG.jpg It was at this point that I realized that the football/soccerball inflator handle can be used for the next tire to inflate the tire quickly without the schrader valve being in place, so I will try it this way on the next tire to see if it works. (It may require a third hand to press the trigger, but I can probably wire the trigger pressed because both hands will be needed to coerce the tire into momentarily seating while the air is filling it up.) http://i.cubeupload.com/DZJO2y.jpg At this point it's time to make two checks of the valve stem. Ensure the red (radial runout) dot is at the valve stem Ensure with a straight edge that the valve doesn't stick out past the rim Since it was dark, I didn't bother looking for match mounting marks on the old rim, so, I simply lined up the red dot with the tire valve since the red dot indicates the tire's high point for radial runout and radial force variation, which takes precedence over the yellow dot which indicates the tire's light spot which would have been paired with the valve stem on the wheel which is the wheel's heavy spot had the red dot not existed. http://i.cubeupload.com/1dxFGN.jpg |
#59
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 05:36:12 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote: On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 14:06:51 -0600, dpb advised: at $60+/- at the moment...keep watching/looking and can eventually find a usable changer that will actually work. I found a way to shore up the harbor freight tire changer so that it works on the tougher 75-series 108T SUV tires (60 series passenger tires would be far easier) and posted that as a response to the original post. One question though, is what tool do you guys recommend for removing the old crimp on wheel weights? http://i.cubeupload.com/0D6Lnt.jpg Oh no - after what I just said, here we go again!!!! A damned wheel weight pliers, of coarse!!! Google "wheel weight pliers" |
#60
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight beadbreaker?
On 2016-12-13 11:35 PM, Frank Baron wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 19:01:48 -0600, Vic Smith advised: CHOP A better question is why does Danny keep changing names? |
#61
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 06:35:07 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote: On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 19:46:10 -0500, advised: Not ALL BBS wheels have the full caps . I was thinking the center caps used on many BBS wheels that have their nuts exposed Fair enough. But anyway, the tire shops I've been to don't even carry the five-dollar BBS plastic hubcap wrench. You know what they do instead of twisting off the plastic hubcaps? They tear them off with a screwdriver. Ask me how I know. Every mechanic that ever worked for me removed all the weights before removing tires, and ballanced from scratch. We ballanced to 1/4 ounce Fair enough. That's how it's *supposed* to be done. But it isn't always done that way (ask me how I know). By far not everyone does that. A LOT of people have summer and winter rims, and when one set gets worn to the point they need replacement, they drop those rims off at the shop to have new tires installed when they are removed to install the other seasonals. I know that. I used to live in cold country. It makes sense to keep a set of rims around for that purpose. It also might make sense to mount and balance your own tires for this purpose, as it would vastly make the payback period sooner since you don't have to spend money on four wheel rims (depends on the cost of the rims, of course). So they inflate them to 100-140PSI, do they???? That's what their compressor puts out. C'mon. Don't take me for a fool. There are things called R-E-G-U-L-A-T-O-R-S on the compressor output. Even you must be aware of that. "even" I must be aware of that? You take me for a fool? I took you for one too, with some pretty good evidence, until you finally proved you COULD figure things out if provoked enough!!! Yes, I know about regulators - but in 50 years experience I've NEVER seen anybody use one to inflate a tire. That takes lazy and stupid to a totally higher level than I've seen - must be a southern thing??? Like I said, if that's the service you are getting that's the service you are paying for. Go to a better level of shop. These are *all* either Costco, or Tire Rack Recommended Installers. Which is somehow supposed to be some kind of a quality recomendation?? My theory is that they *know* how to change tires, but they also know that almost nobody who comes to them knows how tires are supposed to be changed. They skip steps to save time, where, for them, time is money. It's that simple. The mechanics make a hell of a lot less than that, and if you are paying that much and not getting proper service, raise hell and vote with your feet. I *am* voting with my feet. 1. The 460/A/A tires were bought for $68 2. We didn't pay any shipping fees 3. I changed the first tire today https://groups.google.com/forum/#!or...o/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ What's next? a. Change the other 4 tires (I have to move the spare off the rim) b. Balance all five tires (including the spare) c. Align the front camber, caster, and toe at home I don't understand where you are getting your work done and why you don't set them straight. You know how to bitch, so do it where it has a chance of doing some good. Heh heh heh heh ... I have *bitched* as you suggested, and gotten my tires mounted for free. I even was instrumental in getting a tire shop kicked out of the Tire Rack Recommended Program because I documented their foibles. But I'd rather not bitch. I'd rather just get the job done right, at home. A. Mounting and repairing tires B. Balancing tires C. Alignment Those three things, I feel, everyone should know how to do since they only require basic capabilities and basic tools. BULL****. They have a chart with the torque specs. Actually, they don't. Long story, I once had a car that was older aligned at Sears and they didn't do anything. They charged me, but they didn't do anything. When I complained, a day later (after checking the bolts because I had painted them after contemplating doing the alignment myself after replacing the tierod ends, pitman arm, and idler arm), they found the only thing correct was the toein, which I had done myself. When they questioned the tech, he said he didn't have charts for such an old vehicle, so he just didn't do anything. How many people have they cheated? That's what you get at "big box" and "chain" shops - not what you get at a good independent shop or a dealership. Today all of the specs are available to anyone with a smart phone if they don't have the data on the machine. No excuse.. And we were NOT talking alignment - we were talking wheel torque. Put that brain of yours to work - you proved ONCE that you have the brains to figure things out. Use them... Thousands I'll bet. How many people are they *still* cheating? Thousands I bet. Why? Because they're too lazy to look things up. Basically all steel rims with a given stud size use the same torque, and all alloys of that size another torque - and the torque goes up with the stud size. Dunno that. All I know is that my bimmer is 84 foot pounds for the lug bolts. About right for an M12 stud or bolt on an alloy rim. - tire direct's chart says 90 ft lbs except for 2002 to 2008 600 and 700 series and M5 and M6 which are 105 ft lbs (they use 14mm studs/bolts) I imagine that spec is for steel wheels - alloys are generally about 5 ft lb less. Then bitch at them and vote with your feet - but I'm almost 100% positive you will screw up more than they do. It will be a steep learning curve, but I've already mounted my first tire and I'm sure I'll just get exponentially better with the next four. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!or...o/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ Then I will balance them. Then I will align the car. Shouldn't be too hard, but as I said, there will be a steep learning curve. I'm sure I'll have lots of questions when the time comes. Before you start asking too many questions, stop and think it out like you finally did with your tire changing. When you check your alignment - if what you can check is OK, good. But if what you can check is NOT OK, I would still STRONGLY recommend you take it to a GOOD front end shop, or the dealer, to have it checked to be sure nothing is bent and the caster isn't off. There is really NOTHING on that car that can change the alignment without bending something, wearing something, or breaking something. Do your homework on the toe conversion issue. Like I said - project your displaced car centerline about 5 feet minimum ahead of the wheel centerline. then project the wheel angle out to intersect the displaced centerline and make your measurements there. Construct a right angle triangle, as large as possible from the projected lines, and solve the triangle for the hypoteneuse angle. You need to displace the centerline or the triangle will be a block long - - - Again - stop and look at and read and understand the information that has been given to you. Then think about it and you will be able to figure out what you are doing and why. That's what I always told my students. Don't just ASS U ME the guys giving you advice don't have a clue. I did this for YEARS - and I taught both high school and trade level Auto Mechanics in a "former life". I know how to do it. I've done it. And I've taught many others how to do it. I've done it in Canada, and I've done it in the bush of Zambia and Burkina Faso - So I've done it with the most advanced and the most basic tools, and I've done it on everything from as basic as a 1928 Chev to Mecedes and Rolls Royce, with just about any level in between you can imagine, as well as industrial and agricultural equipment. The toe in is the EASY one. because you CAN "amplify" the measurement to increase accuracy. The Camber you can tell if it is appreciably out - but you cannot be accurate enough to say it's out 1/2 a degree - and adjust it accurately. You could be 1/2 a degree out in your initial measurement and end up making irt worse. As for balancing? You can make it "close" with a bubble balancer, but you will NOT be able to correct a "dynamic balance" problem. Google it and understand it - if you stop to put that brain of yours to work you CAN figure it out and understand why it is impossible to fix a dynamic balance problem with a bubble balancer. Dynamic balance becomes critical at speed - particularly on a car with a lightweight responsive suspension. (which describes your little "wiener wagon" to a tee). If you never drive over 55mph, or never drive on a good smooth highway, and the dynamic balance is not off by more than half an ounce or so (which you will never know) you may not notice any problem. Driving at 65mph and up on a good smooth superhighway and the steering wheel starts doing the tango from side to side? That is almost always due to a dynamic ballance problem. It shimmies. Static balance tramps.. So of course it's more critical on the front wheels of a rear drive car than on a front drive, or on the rear wheels. The "shimmy" even if it does not bother you, is causing wear in the front suspension and steering linkage - so it IS important to have the tires properly dynamic balanced. Most modern tire balancers have 2 modes - standard and "precision". Precision doubles the accuracy of the balancer - down to 1/4 ounce and a degree or so of rotation from the 1/2 ounce accuracy of the "standard" mode. On my own vehicles I always do "precision" and recheck on "precision" after installing the weights. to make sure it zeros. Same thing I did on all luxury or performane vehicles for customers. (and most others as well - it only takes about 15 seconds longer per cycle to run the precision balance - and then I KNOW the customer won't come back) I had a customer with an earlt Supra come in with a "high speed shimmy" I test drove the car and asked him when I came back from a perfectly smooth 95mph run "how high is high speed". He said he didn't have a clue. the speedo didn't go that high. I precision ballanced the wheels and his roughly 160MPH shimmy dissapeared (the speedo was 150mph, and he pinned it) The problem was about 1/4 ounce of dynamic inbalance on one front tire - - - But right now, I'm giving back to the team, as all good Usenet posters should. That is why I wrote this up: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!or...o/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ Again, bull****. You say $100 to $150 an hour - if they are on the clock, they get paid, so why not take the time??? You don't seem to have any clue that management won't let them spend an hour or two per vehicle to change the tires. If it's flat rate, it's a different story - but they are not charing by the "hour" but by the "labour unit" - which may or may not relate closely to an hour. What you seem to be completely ignorant of is the business model that the management follows, which is that they need to get cars in and out of the bays in order to charge for things done. You amaze me sometimes. Did you ever work in any company that charged for the job done? Then find a good independent GARAGE to do your work, not a tire "stealership" Find a garage to do the required repairs on your vehicle that you can trust - then trust them to do the job. That doesn't mean don't check up on them - it just means trust them to do the job, and let them know you are happy with them when they do, and that you are not when they don't What you post is perfectly apropos for the ladies crocheting group, but this is a home repair group, where people do their own stuff. Nobody is telling you that YOU have to change your tires yourself, but it's perfectly apropos to ask here. Plus, I'm clearly doing the job since you can see the photos. How many people are that good that they give back to Usenet with well documented step by step photo filled how tos? I'm one of the best. I just haven't changed tires before. Then I will balance them. And then I will align the vehicle. It's not rocket science but it does take a team, which is why I am here asking those of you who have done it before for advice. And you are getting ****ty work for that price. Which is why I am doing it myself. I didn't say how much you pay necessarily has a bearing on the quality - only that if you just shop by price, don't be surprized if the oats have already been therough the horse.\ What's the difference between a Nexen NPriz AH5 sized P225/75R15 from Tire Rack, SimpleTire, or (assuming Costco sells it), Costco? Answer? Price. That's about it. Especially if I am going to install them myself. One price could be double the other. The price has absolutely no bearing on quality. Anyone who says it does, knows absolutely nothing. They just use price because it's an easy number to compare things. They simply assume that if TireRack sells the tire for $100 and Costco sells it for $120, then Costco must have a better quality tire. But it's the same tire no matter where you buy it. The price has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality. The quality has everything to do with quality. It's really that simple. |
#62
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 23:19:45 -0500, advised:
Before you start asking too many questions, stop and think it out like you finally did with your tire changing. The tire changing is now very easy. I did a 60-series passenger-car tire today for a friend who had a flat and it was so easy I looked like I knew what I was doing. The difference is that a normal 60 series passenger tire is a piece of cake compared to these 75-series 108T sidewalls on the SUV. Nonetheless, I have the 75-series SUV tires all figured out now for how to break the beak so we're pretty much done with this thread for breaking beads. Next is figuring out the wheel weights to use (I think I am supposed to use PZ, PZU, PST, or PSTU styles but I'm double-checking that as I speak. Alignment comes after that. http://i.cubeupload.com/WyBNYm.jpg When you check your alignment - if what you can check is OK, good. But if what you can check is NOT OK, I would still STRONGLY recommend you take it to a GOOD front end shop, or the dealer, to have it checked to be sure nothing is bent and the caster isn't off. The problem with the Internet is that everything has to be said, even the stuff that everyone already knows. Especially when it comes to alignment, when 99,999 out of 100,000 people are *scared* to do it themselves. Even if they weren't scared, 95,000 out of 100,000 can't *think* that hard, because angles and geometries are involved, where some measurements have to be converted from, say, degrees to inches (or vice versa). So what we end up in *any* alignment thread, is 95% of the people spouting utterly useless warnings that everyone already knows and only 5% of the people helping out on the questions. You may be in that 5% but you don't need to tell me the stuff that everyone knows. I only need to know *how* to do it. For the Toyota, the only things that can be adjusted are front caster, camber, and toe, where caster & camber are adjusted together and toe is adjusted separately and last. Nothing else is adjustable and there is absolutely no indication anywhere that anything is out of alignment, so it's more of a doublecheck than anything else. Caster can be calculated from camber and camber can be measured directly, as can toe, so, that's the very simple plan of attack. The actual charts for Toyota SUVs are complex but I'm working on them. http://i.cubeupload.com/WyBNYm.jpg |
#63
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 06:35:10 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote: On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 17:16:44 -0800, Oren advised: Feeble attempt at a troll. Keep digging. You will post 500 threads before you understand. I guess you think those clowns at HF have better advice for you, Go for it. Oren. You are dead wrong. But, let me prove it. Do you see this post as a troll? Why or why not? https://groups.google.com/forum/#!or...o/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ No - you finally put your brain in gear. Keep it up. But don't let your head get TOO big. The machine as supplied is CRAP - but it doesn't take MUCH to make it half-assed decent. Get a steel plate welden in place of the fence-post. Put proper bolts (a bit bigger because the fit is sloppy) into properly re-drilled holes, and install washers where necessary to take out the slop in the linkages.. Cut the big handle in half and drive in a rod or sched 40 pipe , then weld the thing back together - now it's strong enough to do the job without turning into a pretzel. Then you'll find the next weak point (hint - the guy who welded the base legs was onto something) When you are done you'll have a useable tire machine that might last you a while. - still not a GREAT machine - but better than what you have. There's a you-tube out there of a guy who made his own - the rubber tired steel wheel replacing that awfull spider is a good mod - as is the one I posted before of the guy using rubber tire sidewall material. Look them up. Think about what the guys are doing and why instead of just going off half cocked about how it doesn't tell you anything. You need to STOP and THINK. If it doesn't make sense. look again and UNDERSTAND what they did and why. Sometimes the guys on you-tube ARE wrong - but you won't know untill you look at what they did, how, and why. If you don't, your comebacks and (sometimes very) dumb questions make you look liike an idiot. If you are gainfully employed the time spent MIGHT be better spent earning the money to pay someone else to do the job, if the price of having it done properly by someone who does a good job is the issue. If you are doing it more because you enjoy it and you really want to learn how to do things right, and learn about how things REALLY work - that's a differnt story - but then, take in all the information you can from those of us who have been there , done that, and got the tee-shirt greasy. Don't go out of your way to make enemies of the guys who can help you understand what you don't know.... |
#64
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 22:21:15 -0500, advised:
Oh no - after what I just said, here we go again!!!! A damned wheel weight pliers, of coarse!!! Google "wheel weight pliers" Turns out, after some research and talking to the pros, there's really no need for those wheel-weight pliers just as there is absolutely no need for any special valve removal or insertion tools. Still, some tools are just nice to have even if they're not necessary. I already bought the valve-puller tool, for example, mainly because I wanted to feel for myself how much easier it made an already easy task of removing and inserting the valves. http://i.cubeupload.com/BurSRM.jpg I'll probably do the same experiment for the wheel weight puller tool: http://i.cubeupload.com/pkMgfr.jpg |
#66
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 06:35:11 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote: On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 20:02:13 -0500, advised: Ha Ha Ha. I've changed tires with nothing but tire irons. So have I, but they were motorcycle tires. And I've done it on tires that would flatten you if they dropped on you, as well as standard sized automobile and light truck tires. Would I waste my money on one of those tire changers to do my own? Not as long as I lived within 10 miles of a real tire machine. Look. I think you forget what newsgroup this is. Look at the newsgroup. Is this the ladies auxiliary club? No, actually it is alt HOME REPAIR If all you're gonna do is spout that you have to get tires changed at a professional shop, then maybe the ladies crocheting group is more apropos for you? You are being a prick again. Read the messages posted just before this one, and take to heart. Would I use a bubble balancer to balance the wheels on my own vehicles today? Not on your life. Let me ask you a fair and simple question, since we covered this topic already so you know where I'm coming from. What would you say if there is no vibration after a set of tires were mounted? Would you *still* spend the $80 bucks (minimum) to have the wheels dynamically road-force balanced? Dynamic yes, road force, no Read my earlier reply tonight for the reason why. Why? When I change my own steering parts I line the front up to "reasonably close" and then drive it over to a local shop and pay them to do an accurate alignment. - and i KNOW how to do it. I did my pitman arm, idler arm, and tie rod ends, and aligned the car myself (long story with Sears charging for the alignment and never doing it). SEARS??? You gotta be JOKING. They have been outed for decades as being one of the biggest rip-offs in the "automotive" business., and their "alignment scams" are the most well publicised. Take your car to AN ALIGNMENT SPECIALIST That was years ago, before I learned that almost all tire and alignment shops are crooks. Not nearly all - but the "chain" shops most definitely. Find a local independent shop with a good front end man. They are worth their weight in gold. Alignment is next on my list, by the way, but since I now have the bead-braking and mounting part solved, I first am going to tackle the balancing. After balancing, I'll tackle alignment. One place I worked we had a "slip guage" that told us when we drove a car into the shop if the alignment was apppreciably out - and that test was done free of charge to every vehicle that came in the door. My plan for alignment is as simple (and logical) as my plan for balancing. I'm going to align the SUV myself (since all it takes is front caster, camber, and toe). The rear is a solid axle and can't be adjusted. Then I'm gonna find a shop that does free checks, and if my alignment is correct, the check is free. If not, I pay for the alignment. What do you see as a pitfall in my simple and logical plan? The only pitfall is most "free alignment checks" are worth exactly what you pay for them - or less. Replacing your own parts, as long as you are careful and thorough, is not a bad way to save some money and have some "fun" at the same time. Just make sure you torque everything properly and don't miss any cotter pins etc - - - Doing a simple re-alignment of the toe is pretty simple - at least to get it close enough you can safely drive it to a good shop to have it verified.and corrected if possible. Having the rear track checked is not a bad idea either - you don't say what kind of "SUV" it is, but there have been many cases of the rear axle being out of line, causing the vehicle to "dog-track" wearing tires and affecting handling.. A GOOD shop can correct that. Lots of "SUV"s with bent axle housings too, which can throw out the toe and or camber - and also cause accelerated failure of the differential bearings. Have it checked at least once - and again if it ever gets ANY SERIOUS OFF-ROAD DRIVING. |
#67
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 06:35:13 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote: On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 23:38:36 +0000, Stormin' Norman advised: I have taken tires and rims to Costco and asked them to dismount and mount other tires and they were happy to do it without me having purchased the tires from them. One time I gave the guy at the counter a case of St. Pauli Girl beer and they did it all for free...... Don't get me wrong. I love Costco. In fact, I'm gonna take the old tires to them for $1 plus ten cents tax where they will dispose of them for me. If I took them to the local tire shop nearby me, it would cost $7 per tire plus 70 cents tax (I hate that California taxes everything multiple times where tires are taxed three times!) Even if I took them to the local Pep Boys, it would still cost $3.50 plus sales tax of about 35 cents. Costco is the best for some things. However, the one thing Costco sucks at is short lines & product selection. I have gotten tires at Costco quite a few times, but I just gave up. It takes far too long. Never less than an hour wait, and often two or three hours (especially when they run their annual tire sales). Plus, Costco has a sucky selection of tires, and they won't mount any tires you bring to them (I'm surprised your Costco did that because mine won't). If they are busy- rushed off their feet mounting their customers' tires - purchased from them - why would they install tires you got somewhere else, making the wait for their customers even longer? Stop. Think. Understand. It's BUSINESS. But they do give you free rotations and lovely green nitrogen air. But overall, Costco isn't cost effective compared to what I can get online. Depends on your tolerance - and the hassle you have to go through when you have problems with your on-line-ordered stuff (and it is WHEN, not IF - it WILL happen!!!) But I love Costco for other things (like diapers, similac, roasted chicken, etc.). They are great for anything you use a lot of and therfore buy in quantity. Did you see they are opening some new locations that go "back to basics" - back to where they started - as a wholesale supplier for small businesses??? That's what they were when I first dealt with them. They will have no custom meat cutting, no tire and auto center, no eye-glasses or hearing aids or jewelry a,d a whole lot less apparel - but more range in office equipment and supplies, tools, etc that small businesses will need - and cater more to the "mom-and-pop" stores and eateries with their foodstuffs etc.. |
#68
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
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#69
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 06:35:14 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote: On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 20:11:45 -0500, advised: I buy my tires from a reputable local dealer who gets to make the markup on the tires, and charges me $15 canadian to install and balance them. I think we got a far better deal than you do, because we *thought* about the problem set ahead of time, so as to maximize what our money buys. You don't have a CLUE how I buy my tires or what "thought" goes into them - and I most certainly would NOT buy tires based primarily on price. For example, we chose the tires for their $68 price, and for their 460 traction, A treadwear, and A temperature ratings, based on the OEM specs from Toyota of a 102S P225/75R15 tire for the OEM wheels. Normally we use Tire Rack but https://simpletire.com/ gave them to us for free shipping (which saved $16 per tire right off the bat). It did take about 10 days (including the weekend) so that was one drawback, but in general, a few days extra time isn't all that critical when deciding to replace a set of tires. So, the total cost for 4 460/A/A tires was, literally, $68 per tire. I'm not a cheap-ass who believes he can always get a better deal on-line. I give my business to local businesses - owned by my neighbours, who employ my neighbours and pay local taxes in my community.. Again, you are filled to the brim with cliches, but you're welcome to them. This is a *technical* question, not a philosophical one. You can wax philosophically on alt.philosophy or alt.economic.theory. You are being a prick again - it is not becoming. That goes for tires, appliances, and just about everything else I buy. If it is available locally, I buy locally. I'm not a rich man - but I make my living here, and I believe my nieghbours should be able to make their living here too. That means sometimes I pay a few dollars more than buying from out of the area - but on the whole I believe I'm getting as good value for my money locally as I would getr anywhere. You probably should be waxing on alt.philosophy for this post. As far as getting your money back, I truly don't believe you will ever make your money back on your DIY tire changing and alignment schemes - because you WILL screw up more than you save. Virtually guaranteed. You have proven you don't understand what is involved. Heh heh heh heh ... you make me laugh. You're actually *scared* of people like me. Because I can do things that you wouldn't dare do yourself. You snot-nosed little punk - You have not listened to a word I've said. I thought for a few minutes I may have misjudgesd you -to harshly. I take it back. I may start out ignorant, but I end up knowing far more than you ever will. That's not because I'm smarter than you are; I'm just far more willing to learn than you are. YOu are NOT willing to learn - and I doubt your level of automotive knowledge and experience will EVER approach that of any of they guys on this list - or particularly guys like myself who have done this professionally - for a living, for longer than you have been alive. And, I'm certainly far more willing to give back since I know that the power of Usenet is not only being able to ask experts questions, but to also give back so that the next person stands on our shoulders. Which I, and others, have been TRYING to do for you for several weeks. You appear to be unteachable and unhelpable - or at least a total ingrate. Here's an example of classic Usenet giving back to the team: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!or...o/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ And EVEYTHING you put into that very fine piece is information you WERE given on this newsgroup. I'm surprised you actually assimilated enough to figure out how to put it all together and get the job done. You are definitely not making yourself any friends - - - |
#70
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 13:24:39 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote: On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 06:35:13 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron wrote: On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 23:38:36 +0000, Stormin' Norman advised: I have taken tires and rims to Costco and asked them to dismount and mount other tires and they were happy to do it without me having purchased the tires from them. One time I gave the guy at the counter a case of St. Pauli Girl beer and they did it all for free...... Don't get me wrong. I love Costco. In fact, I'm gonna take the old tires to them for $1 plus ten cents tax where they will dispose of them for me. If I took them to the local tire shop nearby me, it would cost $7 per tire plus 70 cents tax (I hate that California taxes everything multiple times where tires are taxed three times!) Even if I took them to the local Pep Boys, it would still cost $3.50 plus sales tax of about 35 cents. Costco is the best for some things. However, the one thing Costco sucks at is short lines & product selection. I have gotten tires at Costco quite a few times, but I just gave up. It takes far too long. Never less than an hour wait, and often two or three hours (especially when they run their annual tire sales). Plus, Costco has a sucky selection of tires, and they won't mount any tires you bring to them (I'm surprised your Costco did that because mine won't). But they do give you free rotations and lovely green nitrogen air. But overall, Costco isn't cost effective compared to what I can get online. But I love Costco for other things (like diapers, similac, roasted chicken, etc.). Frank, I am not trying to sell you on Costco. I simply related my personal experience. I also have excellent luck with Discount Tire, in this part of the country they are a giant in the tire retailing business and will beat any price you bring them, even the online sellers. If they don't end up kicking him out on his ass first - it appears dealing online means he doesn't need to deal with anyone face to face - he can get yappy without getting his face slapped. |
#71
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 14:47:30 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote: On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 13:24:39 +0000, Stormin' Norman advised: Frank, I am not trying to sell you on Costco. I simply related my personal experience. I also have excellent luck with Discount Tire, in this part of the country they are a giant in the tire retailing business and will beat any price you bring them, even the online sellers. I understand, and appreciate your recommendation. I used to do all the things everyone else does, so I'm familiar with every way to buy tires (if I skipped a method, let me know). 1. When I was a kid in college, I bought tires at junk yards right off of junked cars, but I stopped doing that when my five-dollar tires wobbled while driving. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out what the vibration was, because the tires looked fine. People would point to my tires as they drove by, when one day, a guy followed me off the highway and told me my tires were flexing like a balloon. Replacing those junk-yard tires solved my vibration problem; but it could have been (much) worse. 2. Swearing off junk-yard tires, I would then buy tires on sale at Sears. They sold them mostly by warranty (of all things). So I would buy the tires based on warranty as I recall (although this was in the day of bias ply so I don't remember all the details). I do remember looking at a wall of mounted tires at sears and trying to figure out what was the best tire (which was basically impossible to do that way - but I didn't realize it at the time). 3. Over the years, I learned about TireRack from the Motor Trend and Car and Driver car magazine advertisements (there were two main companies that always advertised with a full page of teeny tiny print that I could actually read without glasses in those days before the Internet). It was still impossible to select among tires, but at least the price was a *lot* lower than it was at Sears. Tire Rack would ship to the recommended installer and the installer would give me the Tire Rack price. 4. At some point, radial tires showed up (which lasted longer than the 25K miles that bias ply lasted) and UTQG appeared as did Price Club (now Costco), so at least I could now select tires from the floor-to-ceiling piles at Costco by the UTQG numbers (and not by a silly warranty figure). 5. Finally, I got used to buying stuff on the Internet, and that was it for buying anything locally, simply because of the stupendously huge price difference. Sure, almost everyone will *match* almost everyone else, but what good is *matching*? I never understood price matching. What's the appeal? Price "matching" is only good if they will BEAT the lowest price Under most circumstances, they match the same price you can get elsewhere. Um. So what? That's not any better. And, often it's worse (because of sales tax and selection considerations.) And LEGALLY you are REQUIRED to submit the local tax on product you order in from outside the state if they do not have a business presence in your state. If they DO have a presence in your state, they are requireds to charge the tax applicable in your state. Whether this is enforced or not, I don't know. The *only* reason, IMHO, to price match, is if there is *something* you get for free out of the price match. But if all you get is the same tire at the same price that you would have gotten anyway - what's the benefit of price matching? I'd rather give my business to the guy who advertises and sells at the lowest price than to the guy who advertises and sells at a higher price who only drops his price when you put a gun to his head. There will always be someone who will sell at a lower price Of course, if you get *something* for free from price matching, then it makes total sense. Many examples can occur, but I'll just flesh out a typical one which is that, say, you can get tires in 10 days from company X online, where the total cost (let's say) is $400 for 4 tires, shipped, taxed, and installed. If you walk up to a tire shop, and say "will you match this price" and if they match the *price*, then you're getting something for free because you don't have to wait the 10 days for shipping. So, to me, price matching is utterly useless unless you get something for free out of the deal, other than price. To me, *price beating* is what I like! If someone says they will *beat* the Internet price by, say, 10 percent, that's worth switching. But just price matching? Naaah. That's like replacing your favorite toolbox hammer with another exactly similar hammer. There's no benefit whatsoever to the swap, and the original hammer deserves a bit more respect. |
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 04:36:41 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote: On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 23:19:45 -0500, advised: Before you start asking too many questions, stop and think it out like you finally did with your tire changing. The tire changing is now very easy. I did a 60-series passenger-car tire today for a friend who had a flat and it was so easy I looked like I knew what I was doing. The difference is that a normal 60 series passenger tire is a piece of cake compared to these 75-series 108T sidewalls on the SUV. Nonetheless, I have the 75-series SUV tires all figured out now for how to break the beak so we're pretty much done with this thread for breaking beads. Next is figuring out the wheel weights to use (I think I am supposed to use PZ, PZU, PST, or PSTU styles but I'm double-checking that as I speak. Alignment comes after that. http://i.cubeupload.com/WyBNYm.jpg When you check your alignment - if what you can check is OK, good. But if what you can check is NOT OK, I would still STRONGLY recommend you take it to a GOOD front end shop, or the dealer, to have it checked to be sure nothing is bent and the caster isn't off. The problem with the Internet is that everything has to be said, even the stuff that everyone already knows. Especially when it comes to alignment, when 99,999 out of 100,000 people are *scared* to do it themselves. Even if they weren't scared, 95,000 out of 100,000 can't *think* that hard, because angles and geometries are involved, where some measurements have to be converted from, say, degrees to inches (or vice versa). So what we end up in *any* alignment thread, is 95% of the people spouting utterly useless warnings that everyone already knows and only 5% of the people helping out on the questions. You may be in that 5% but you don't need to tell me the stuff that everyone knows. I only need to know *how* to do it. No, respectfully - you need to know WHAT you are doing and WHY before the HOW makes any sense. For the Toyota, the only things that can be adjusted are front caster, camber, and toe, where caster & camber are adjusted together and toe is adjusted separately and last. You still have not said what Toyota SUV- 4runner, Higlander, FJ Cruiser, older land cruiser, Rav4, Sequoia, or Venza??? Nothing else is adjustable and there is absolutely no indication anywhere that anything is out of alignment, so it's more of a doublecheck than anything else. Caster can be calculated from camber and camber can be measured directly, as can toe, so, that's the very simple plan of attack. The formula is: Caster (deg) = (180 / 3.1415) * [(camber1 - camber2) / (turnangle1 - turnangle2)] Basically simplified to 57.3X(camber change/degrees of turn) Turn the wheel in45 degrees. Measure camber. Turn out 45 degrees, read camber.. Subtract camber 1 from camber 2 - say the difference is 5 degrees.. 5 devided by 90 = .055, times57.3= 3.18 degrees of caster. Without slip plates side loading can affect the camber measurements somewhat which also affects the caster calculation. So yes, theoretically you CAN measure/calculate caster - but again accuracy is going to be crucial. Good enough to see if you are close - not accurate or repeatable enough, in most cases, to make an accurate fine adjustment. However, the Toyota truck-based SUV front ends are stout enough that unless you have really bashed it about or fooled withit, nothing is going to change unless something wears out ----- The turn-angle is critical to the calculation The actual charts for Toyota SUVs are complex but I'm working on them. http://i.cubeupload.com/WyBNYm.jpg |
#73
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 04:42:21 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote: On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 22:21:15 -0500, advised: Oh no - after what I just said, here we go again!!!! A damned wheel weight pliers, of coarse!!! Google "wheel weight pliers" Turns out, after some research and talking to the pros, there's really no need for those wheel-weight pliers just as there is absolutely no need for any special valve removal or insertion tools. Still, some tools are just nice to have even if they're not necessary. I already bought the valve-puller tool, for example, mainly because I wanted to feel for myself how much easier it made an already easy task of removing and inserting the valves. http://i.cubeupload.com/BurSRM.jpg I'll probably do the same experiment for the wheel weight puller tool: http://i.cubeupload.com/pkMgfr.jpg You can use a sledge hammer or an axe if you like to put them on, and you can beat them off with a chisel, but the proper tool as always it much easier . And you asked "what tool do you use to remove the weights. I, and most mechanics, use a weight pliers - so I answered your question - didn't I??? |
#74
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 05:03:04 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote: On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 23:38:46 -0500, advised: The machine as supplied is CRAP - but it doesn't take MUCH to make it half-assed decent. Get a steel plate welden in place of the fence-post. Clare, You are making sense. I agree with you. I only shoved the fence post in there as an American ingenuity hack, but the real solution would be to weld in some steel reinforcement, I agree. Actually the REAL solution would be to make a tubular one out of 2 inch square tube - but welding in a plate will do the job To that end, I have a friend who will sell me his old oxy acetylene setup, so, I will pick that up soon (the tanks are empty so I will need to fill them up). I'll learn how to weld, which should be a useful skill anyway. Welding plate like that with an axy-acetylene welder CAN be done, but it's not a job for beginners. If my only tool was the gas welder, I'd braze that part - not weld. Put proper bolts (a bit bigger because the fit is sloppy) into properly re-drilled holes, and install washers where necessary to take out the slop in the linkages.. This is a great idea Clare, and I appreciate it. There was far too much slop in those linkages, and, I didn't mention it, but the clovis pin bent like it was made out of putty when I pulled it out. By the way - it's a CLEVIS pin. So, you're totally correct that there is far too much slop, which allows the pressure to not be straight down, which not only lessens the force on the bead, but puts force on the tool to the side where it bends the metal. The extra slop puts the bolt into bemding stress instead of just shear - The HF tool *is* crap - but it can be reinforced. Cut the big handle in half and drive in a rod or sched 40 pipe , then weld the thing back together - now it's strong enough to do the job without turning into a pretzel. Clare, this is *another* good idea. I need the big red handle but only because of the special shape of the *ends*. The middle is not needed (so to speak) and it's so weak that it bends easily. So, your idea of cutting it in half and then welding it into a long strong pipe makes a lot of sense. I am picking up an oxyacetylene welding setup soon, so, I will keep you informed. Again, I'd stick weld that job - or if all I had was the torch, I'd braze it - and drill a few small holes and plug braze it too. Then you'll find the next weak point (hint - the guy who welded the base legs was onto something) So far, the legs have been fine, but I didn't mention that there is a crack in the metal where it is bolted to the concrete, so, again, you are right. I agree with you that this HF tool is crappy, but, for the price of the tool plus a bit of welding, it can be made more robust. When you are done you'll have a useable tire machine that might last you a while. - still not a GREAT machine - but better than what you have. Clare - I totally agree with you. The HF tool is crappy but it can be shored up where it is weak. Then it will work for most car tires. Which is good enough since it is only going to be used once a year anyway. If you don't, your comebacks and (sometimes very) dumb questions make you look liike an idiot. I am never afraid to ask a question. If I wanted to, I could write up a tutoral that *looks* like I knew everything ahead of time - but I write things as they happen. I'm not afraid of looking dumb because I am intelligent (very) so I don't worry like most people do about looking dumb. I often ask simple questions. I even ask for directions. Don't go out of your way to make enemies of the guys who can help you understand what you don't know.... This is a fair enough piece of advice. Thanks for your help and advice for how to shore up the crappy harbor freight manual tire changer. |
#75
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 01:06:53 -0500, advised:
No, respectfully - you need to know WHAT you are doing and WHY before the HOW makes any sense. What I mean is that 99 out of 100 people will tell you why *they* would NOT do their own tire changes, balance, and alignment. There's *nothing* they can teach me since I already know everything they could possibly say (almost). There are TONS of reasons *not* to do anything: - why not to go to the moon - why not to go to North Korea - why not to sail around the world etc. For anything that anyone wants to to, there will be 99 out of 100 people telling them why *they* would not do it. But that's not helpful when someone tries to do it. If I was trying to go to the moon, it's not helpful to tell me that there's no air on the moon. Or that the moon is far away. Do you get my point? a. If I want to change tires, what's helpful is advice on how to change tires using whatever tools I have at hand b. If I want to balance tires, what's helpful is advice on how to balance them, using whatever is at hand and whatever can be bought easily c. If I want to do my alignment at home, what's helpful is advice on how to do it. What's not helpful are jokes and statements that I'm cheap or a litany of reasons why I should not do it (because I already know all those reasons because those reasons are why 99 out of 100 people don't do it themselves so any fool can come up with them). You still have not said what Toyota SUV- 4runner, Higlander, FJ Cruiser, older land cruiser, Rav4, Sequoia, or Venza??? I don't think anyone asked, or, if they did, I haven't seen it yet. It's a 4Runner. Pretty simple. It has 4 cams for caster and camber in the front (nothing in the rear). It has tie rod ends for the toe. That's it. The formula is: Caster (deg) = (180 / 3.1415) * [(camber1 - camber2) / (turnangle1 - turnangle2)] I was going to get some turntables (I think) so that I can do the 20 degree (10 to each side) turn angles. That was how I was gonna calculate caster. Basically simplified to 57.3X(camber change/degrees of turn) Turn the wheel in45 degrees. Measure camber. Turn out 45 degrees, read camber.. Subtract camber 1 from camber 2 - say the difference is 5 degrees.. 5 devided by 90 = .055, times57.3= 3.18 degrees of caster. This sounds like you know what you're doing because I'm on the Toyota forums and they suggested something similar. Right now the alignment is just in the planning stage, since the tires and balancing comes first. Without slip plates side loading can affect the camber measurements somewhat which also affects the caster calculation. I think slip plates are in my future. So yes, theoretically you CAN measure/calculate caster - but again accuracy is going to be crucial. Good enough to see if you are close - not accurate or repeatable enough, in most cases, to make an accurate fine adjustment. The spec on the 4Runner is pretty close to 0 camber anyway, and the toe is really, effectively, 1/16th for each wheel to center line. I forget what the caster is (I can look it up easily but I'm not near my books) but I'm not worried about it just yet. Right now I'm working on the wheels, and I'm reading all the catalogs for wheel weights from the major manufacturers. Here is the wheel weight catalog for Plombco, for example: http://www.completelube.com/AppGuide...Guide_2015.pdf |
#76
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 01:10:11 -0500, advised:
You can use a sledge hammer or an axe if you like to put them on, and you can beat them off with a chisel, but the proper tool as always it much easier . And you asked "what tool do you use to remove the weights. I, and most mechanics, use a weight pliers - so I answered your question - didn't I??? You are correct and I apologize for changing the rules mid thread. Yes, I did ask. And I now know what tool they use. I do like to use good tools, like everyone, and I am not the type normally to use a hammer for everything, so I will "probably" get the wheel weight pliers. I say probably because I may just use the stick-on weights for everything. I don't know yet. It's also just as likely that I'll use the P-type crimp-on weights for these steel wheels. I'm looking at this catalog, for example, and what I "probably" should get is the following on page 185: A. Wheel weight pliers and hammer B. Wheel weight scraper C. Rim Gauge http://www.tuffymfg.com/docs/Pg177-1...ngSupplies.pdf |
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
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Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?
On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:31:22 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote: On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 01:10:11 -0500, advised: You can use a sledge hammer or an axe if you like to put them on, and you can beat them off with a chisel, but the proper tool as always it much easier . And you asked "what tool do you use to remove the weights. I, and most mechanics, use a weight pliers - so I answered your question - didn't I??? You are correct and I apologize for changing the rules mid thread. Yes, I did ask. And I now know what tool they use. I do like to use good tools, like everyone, and I am not the type normally to use a hammer for everything, so I will "probably" get the wheel weight pliers. I say probably because I may just use the stick-on weights for everything. I don't know yet. It's also just as likely that I'll use the P-type crimp-on weights for these steel wheels. I'm looking at this catalog, for example, and what I "probably" should get is the following on page 185: A. Wheel weight pliers and hammer B. Wheel weight scraper C. Rim Gauge http://www.tuffymfg.com/docs/Pg177-1...ngSupplies.pdf If you are only going to static balance anyway, stock only the stik-on weights and apply them to the CENTER of the rim. That way you are not splitting weights and quite possibly making the dynamic balance worse. It is also the onlr economical way of having the weight you require for all situations. When "roughing" the balance plsce the weighy at the point you will be installing it (an inch or two in from the bead, on most of those rims) - it will take a wee bit more weight in there, but you won't throw them nearly as easily, being held in place by rotational force as well as the tape. |
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