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Default Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 23:38:36 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:


One time I gave the guy at the counter a case of St. Pauli Girl beer
and they did it all for free......


Funny you should mention that. I just got back from Fannie Mae
Candies, where I purchased 8 half pound boxes of Chocolate Citrus
Peel. Gifts for a wedding anniversary and Christmas.
I mentioned to the young guy packing my candies that my wife would
kill me if she knew I took the '93 Grand Am out of the garage in 11F
weather. She just doesn't trust that car.
That got him going on his all time favorite car, his '03 Grand Am.
It took him about 15 minutes to pack 6 boxes (they had 2 ready to go),
as we chatted about Grand Ams - and his current Chevy Cruze.
Bottom line is he only charged me for 6 boxes, a full 25% discount.
Nice guy, but I can't say I agree with his choice of cars.


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On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 22:00:36 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 16:12:12 -0500, advised:

Find a GOOD shop - they do exist.
My brother's old shop tire machine doesn't even need the centers
removed from your BBS wheels, and the mounting tools never touch the
rim.


How on earth are you going to get to the lug bolts *without* removing the
BBS hubcaps? It's impossible. I don't know what planet you live on, but the
math is strange on your planet.


Not ALL BBS wheels have the full caps . I was thinking the center
caps used on many BBS wheels that have their nuts exposed

Any hack that doesn't remove the weights BEFORE removing the tire
should be shot.


Well then, a *lot* of mechanics who use the dynamic balancing "spinners"
need to be shot then.


Every mechanic that ever worked for me removed all the weights before
removing tires, and ballanced from scratch. We ballanced to 1/4 ounce
The "high spot" marks oftem make virtually no difference

I agree with you on this.

Especially since it really only applies match mounting onto brand new
wheels at the factory.

If you just take in the rims to have tires mounted, what pressure are
they supposed to use?


When I have my four new tires mounted and balanced, I do what everyone else
does, which is *drive* the car to the shop who mounts and balances them.


By far not everyone does that. A LOT of people have summer and winter
rims, and when one set gets worn to the point they need replacement,
they drop those rims off at the shop to have new tires installed when
they are removed to install the other seasonals.

They know it's a BMW. They know that the rears are different pressures from
the front. But they just put in whatever their compressor is set to for all
cars.


So they inflate them to 100-140PSI, do they???? That's what their
compressor puts out.

I don't blame them. They're lazy. It costs money to take time to look up
the pressure per axle and to adjust the pressure.


Like I said, if that's the service you are getting that's the service
you are paying for. Go to a better level of shop.

At easily $100 to $150 an hour, they don't bother with that.


The mechanics make a hell of a lot less than that, and if you are
paying that much and not getting proper service, raise hell and vote
with your feet.
Or if you use a slightly different sized tire?


I don't use non-stock sizes but the fact remains that the tire shop puts
the same pressure into everything.

What part of that don't you understand?


I don't understand where you are getting your work done and why you
don't set them straight. You know how to bitch, so do it where it has
a chance of doing some good.

YOU are responsible for testing the pressure and setting to your
requirements.


Yup. We agree. If you want the job done right, you have to do it yourself.

Anyone who doesn't torque the bolts properly should be shot. They are
"hacks" not "technicians"


They don't even *know* the torque for your car!
How are they gonna know it?


BULL****. They have a chart with the torque specs.
Basically all steel rims with a given stud size use the same torque,
and all alloys of that size another torque - and the torque goes up
with the stud size.
They have to flip through the Mitchells or the Internet, but they don't
bother.

That's my point.


Then bitch at them and vote with your feet - but I'm almost 100%
positive you will screw up more than they do.

It's not hard to figure out that it's 84 foot pounds per lug bolt; but it
takes time and they just torque everyone to 90 or 100 foot pounds.


Bull****

You likely bent the rims hitting a curb or pothole - which requires
more than just camber and toe to be checked on the alignment.


That's a totally different story, but even then, with 5 very soft BBS stock
rims on the bimmer, I can put the *best* rims on the front and the worst
rim in the trunk, which takes time that the shops just aren't gonna do at
$100 to $150 an hour shop rate.


Again, bull****. You say $100 to $150 an hour - if they are on the
clock, they get paid, so why not take the time???
If it's flat rate, it's a different story - but they are not charing
by the "hour" but by the "labour unit" - which may or may not relate
closely to an hour.
Your problem is you are going to a cheapeassed schlock tire shop
because you are too cheap to go to the dealership. (You call it the
stealership)


The stealer is upwards of $200/hour and to get your tires mounted and
balanced at the stealer is just crazy for a 15 year old bimmer or a 20 year
old Toyota.


Then find a good independent GARAGE to do your work, not a tire
"stealership" Find a garage to do the required repairs on your
vehicle that you can trust - then trust them to do the job. That
doesn't mean don't check up on them - it just means trust them to do
the job, and let them know you are happy with them when they do, and
that you are not when they don't

I go to the Tire Rack Recommended Installers, which you can google and find
yourself for your area. They're all about $18 to $40 per tire for a
mounting and balancing in my area. I just ran a survey and posted it.


And you are getting ****ty work for that price.

"If you want first quality oats you have to be willing to pay first
quality prices. If you are willing to settle for oats that have been
through the horse, they do come a little cheaper"


I don't understand how you can totally miss the point.
Your sermon is tired and old and just does not fit the facts.

What you say is a trite old wives tale which is meaningless except to old
wives.

You can do it yourself and get quality results (static only though).
Or, you can pay someone and get quality results.

How much you pay has absolutely no bearing on the quality.
For example, I just called the first five of the Tire Rack recommended
installers, and one charges $7 plus 70 cents tax for just *disposal* alone
for each tire.


I didn't say how much you pay necessarily has a bearing on the
quality - only that if you just shop by price, don't be surprized if
the oats have already been therough the horse.\

And it's NOT "old wive's tales" -
I was a service manager at a dealership for 10 years - my retention
rate was never under 90%, and exceded 100% for over 5 years. Loosely,
that means if the dealership sold 300 cars over the last 3 years, more
than 300 customers brought their cars to me for service at least twice
a year. It's a bit more complex than that - but it's based on how many
vehicles were still coming back for service 3 years after they were
sold - and that was back when the warranty was only one year.

That also means customers who didn't like the service they were
getting at another dealer voted with their feet and came to me
instead.
And that was just our toyota customers. We also serviced a fair
number of non-toyotas because we had an excellent reputation for
service.
There has got to be another dealership (or garage) who can provide
that kind of service.

I also had lots of customers like you. Bitch, Bitch Bitch BITCH.
Didn't matter what you did for them, they were never satisfied - and I
could see right away when they came in what kind of trouble they were
going to be in most cases. They came in counting on being screwed -
they expected it, and no matter what you did, they considered
themselves to have been screwed.
I had to tell a few of them if they didn't trust me to look after
their vehicles, they were not only welcome, but encouraged, to take
their bitchiung somewhere else.
None charged less than $3.50 plus 35 cents tax for disposal (not Pep Boys,
Autozone, or OReilly's either).

Yet, I called Costco, and they're $1 plus ten cents tax.

Do I get a better quality disposal for my seven dollars and seventy cents?
No.

Quality and price have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Period.

People only use price as an indicator of quality because they're too stupid
to use a more realistic measure (like, um, the quality of the work for
example).

If you have to ask "how much" for ANYTHING you have no business
driving a Bimmer (or a Porsche, or an Audi or a Jag or a Range Rover
or a - you get the picture???


You have so many old wive's tales muddling your thought process that you
probably never once thought about what you're saying, to see if it actually
makes any sense (using math that works on this planet).

You're just saying stupid clich?s which mean absolutely nothing and really
are no help to anyone at all. If you want to believe in stupid clich?s,
that's fine, but let's not waste everyone's time discussing stupid clich?s
that are worthless and meaningless to everyone but you.

I appreciate the advice and help. I really do.
But clich?s are not advice nor help.
They're just wastes of our time.

And those stupid clich?s that you spout are never true anyway.

They're only true for idiots who don't know how to do math or who don't
know what quality is (because that's too complicated for them than a stupid
clich?, which is easy for them to understand).


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On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 22:00:39 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 15:56:13 -0500, advised:

By the time you are done you will have spent as much as having all
your tires professionally changed for the rest of your life (unless
you are a teenager with a heavy foot) and you STILL won't be able to
change yourtires ----


What math do you use on your planet?

1. Pop your zip code into the Tire Rack Recommended Installer engine:
http://www.tirerack.com/installer/In...?affiliate=HJ7
2. Call up the first five in the list
3. Tell us what you averaged

I just priced out getting tires mounted and balanced and it's never less
than $18 per tire where I live and as much as $38.50 at the first five of
the tire rack recommended installers for my zip code.]

At $20 per tire (which is a reasonable estimate and which was my initial
assessment) it would take two years to get my money back on $200 worth of
tools.

That's assuming a new set of tires every two years for two cars, and one
flat each for each car (which is pretty much what I average).

My math is pretty simple, and it checks out, so, what math are you using
that says the payback on $200 worth of tools is the rest of my life?

Am I only going to live two more years?


Nothing wrong with doing you own tires if you want to.
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 22:00:38 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 20:25:01 +0000, Stormin' Norman advised:

Which bead breaker do you use?

Is it this one?
http://i.cubeupload.com/ics54M.jpg


Yes, except the base is painted orange, I assume it is the older
version.


Thanks for that information.

Why does your experience totally clash with that of
though?

I suspect Clare has never actually changed a tire using these tools where
you have?

Ha Ha Ha. I've changed tires with nothing but tire irons. I've used
the cheap manual changers. I've used "professional" manual changers
made in the fifties, and I've used several different high tech power
changers. I've changed tires from 4" to 50+ inch tires - car tires
from 10 inch Mini tires to 20 inchers - including clinchers, as well
as split rim and split ring truck tires, and tractor and industrial
equipment tires on 2 continents, and on vehicles from 1928 vintage to
the 2000's. I haven't done it for a living for the last 26 years or
so, but I've still done a fair number of them.
Would I waste my money on one of those tire changers to do my own?
Not as long as I lived within 10 miles of a real tire machine.
I've balanced tires with bubble ballancers, high speed on-car
ballancers, high speed and low speed off-car balancers
I've aligned cars with clip-on bubble level aligners, visualiners,
acculiners, and computerized alignment machines, Would I use a bubble
balancer to balance the wheels on my own vehicles today? Not on your
life.
When I change my own steering parts I line the front up to
"reasonably close" and then drive it over to a local shop and pay them
to do an accurate alignment. - and i KNOW how to do it.
One place I worked we had a "slip guage" that told us when we drove a
car into the shop if the alignment was apppreciably out - and that
test was done free of charge to every vehicle that came in the door.
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 22:00:39 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 15:56:13 -0500, advised:

By the time you are done you will have spent as much as having all
your tires professionally changed for the rest of your life (unless
you are a teenager with a heavy foot) and you STILL won't be able to
change yourtires ----


What math do you use on your planet?

1. Pop your zip code into the Tire Rack Recommended Installer engine:
http://www.tirerack.com/installer/In...?affiliate=HJ7
2. Call up the first five in the list
3. Tell us what you averaged

I just priced out getting tires mounted and balanced and it's never less
than $18 per tire where I live and as much as $38.50 at the first five of
the tire rack recommended installers for my zip code.]

At $20 per tire (which is a reasonable estimate and which was my initial
assessment) it would take two years to get my money back on $200 worth of
tools.

That's assuming a new set of tires every two years for two cars, and one
flat each for each car (which is pretty much what I average).

My math is pretty simple, and it checks out, so, what math are you using
that says the payback on $200 worth of tools is the rest of my life?

Am I only going to live two more years?


I buy my tires from a reputable local dealer who gets to make the
markup on the tires, and charges me $15 canadian to install and
balance them.
I'm not a cheap-ass who believes he can always get a better deal
on-line. I give my business to local businesses - owned by my
neighbours, who employ my neighbours and pay local taxes in my
community.. That goes for tires, appliances, and just about everything
else I buy. If it is available locally, I buy locally. I'm not a rich
man - but I make my living here, and I believe my nieghbours should be
able to make their living here too. That means sometimes I pay a few
dollars more than buying from out of the area - but on the whole I
believe I'm getting as good value for my money locally as I would getr
anywhere.

As far as getting your money back, I truly don't believe you will
ever make your money back on your DIY tire changing and alignment
schemes - because you WILL screw up more than you save. Virtually
guaranteed. You have proven you don't understand what is involved.


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Default Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 22:00:38 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote:

Why does your experience totally clash with that of
though?

I suspect Clare has never actually changed a tire using these tools where
you have?


Feeble attempt at a troll. Keep digging. You will post 500 threads
before you understand. I guess you think those clowns at HF have
better advice for you, Go for it.
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Default Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?

On Mon, 12 Dec 2016 23:45:12 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron advised:

I have a question about mounting and balancing tires at home that didn't
come up when I was researching this problem. If you have never mounted or
balanced your own passenger-car tires, then you won't know the answers
(most likely) but if you have, you'll know because you must have solved
this problem.

I have the Harbor Freight Pittsburgh Manual Tire Changer HF item #62317
which is mounted in concrete so that it is stable.

That tire changer comes with a "bead breaker" but the bead is just not
breaking when I used it today!
http://i.cubeupload.com/f8FCTC.jpg

I also bought a couple of Harbor Freight item #61603 Pittsburgh 24 in.
General Purpose Tire Irons.
http://i.cubeupload.com/7q7Tq0.jpg

The problem is that the harbor freight tire changer bead breaker just seems
to slip off when following the instructions.
http://i.cubeupload.com/7CdvVu.jpg

I would be glad to use the the Harbor Freight item #67403 Tire Bead Breaker
with Swan Neck:
http://i.cubeupload.com/Qcg2YR.jpg

But it doesn't come with instructions.
Have you used these goose-neck bead breakers on passenger tires?

Which way does the goose-neck go?
a. It can't fit under the rim with the finger pointing up, and,
b. It can't fit under the bead with the finger pointing down.

So how did you use this bead breaker anyway?


The main problem is simply that I have a tough tire (a 108T, which is a
pretty thick SUV tire compared to much easier passenger car tires), and
that the harbor freight tire-changing tool requires modification to work on
such tough tires without bending.

I took my time to document what I learned so that the next person who uses
the same equipment can benefit from the 20/20 hindsight this tutorial
provides them for how to use the harbor freight tire changer to:
a. Break the lower bead of the old tire away from the wheel
b. Break the upper bead of the old tire away from the wheel
c. Remove the upper bead of the old tire from the wheel
d. Remove the lower bead of the old tire from the wheel
e. Remove the old Schrader valve and stem assembly
f. Insert the new Schrader valve and stem assembly
g. Place the lower bead of the new tire on the wheel
h. Place the upper bead of the new tire on the wheel
i. Align the red (or yellow) dot to the valve stem (or to the wheel
match-mounting mark)
j. Seat the beads by filling the tire with air
k. Check the valve stem clearance, match mounting marks, and adjust
pressure to normal psi

The goal is that they start knowing all the things that I just learned
today, which make the job far easier and which makes the tools work far
better.

The first thing I did was straighten out the bent bead-breaking wedge bars,
which was so easy to do one might conclude that they're actually made of
rubber.
http://i.cubeupload.com/JfWmot.jpg

What the bead breaker shovel needs, from the start, is a bit of support,
which is shown here (but after using it, I realized it needs to be about 2
inches from the top of the wedge to leave clearance for the rim of the
wheel when breaking beads).

Luckily this wedge simply moved out of the way because it was just press
fit in and wrapped with solid 120V copper wire. (Given more time, I would
not weaken the bars any further by drilling bolt holes - but - I would
strap in a rectangular block of wood instead of this fence post, which just
happened to be handy.)
http://i.cubeupload.com/hzdzpZ.jpg

I started on the inside bead, which I'm told, is the harder one to break.

By moving the Clovis pin to the outside adjustment hole (making the angle
about 90 degrees to the tire), and with this artificially strengthened
wedge, I was (finally) able to apply (far) more force on the 108T tire bead
without the wedge slipping off the bead itself.
http://i.cubeupload.com/VIu5nb.jpg

The fence post got in the way of the rim as shown in this photo, so, if you
permanently mount it, make sure it's shorter by about 2 or 3 inches than
the space allotted, and make sure it's mounted up high and not low where
mine is now.

Notice how the wooden block hits the rim?
You don't want that.

You want the block to stay higher up, away from the rim by a couple of
inches.
But, in this case, it didn't matter because the block moved when pressure
was placed on it.
http://i.cubeupload.com/kYwRJt.jpg

The stronger wedge plus the 90 degree angle from using the furthest-out of
the 3 adjustment pin holes allowed me to apply enough force to finally pop
the inside-rim bead of the admittedly strong 108T tire sidewall.
http://i.cubeupload.com/tMHBFS.jpg

Only after I popped the underside tire bead did I try to remove the lever
arm, where I found that it bent at about a 10 or 15 degree angle. It took
that much force, but you have to also realize that this harbor freight
metal is soft as rubber.
http://i.cubeupload.com/3q4ZU3.jpg

After straightening the bent tire iron as much as I could, and after moving
the clovis pin to the center hole to get more of an angle, and using a tire
iron to keep a depressed bead down, I easily popped the upper bead.
http://i.cubeupload.com/k527JN.jpg

Placing the tire iron flat step with the step side up, allowed me to start
spinning the top bead off the wheel rim without lubrication:
http://i.cubeupload.com/Zf44Tl.jpg

Adding dish detergent helped a lot to spin the top bead off, where I'd say
it's a requirement to have lubrication but everything gets slippery, even
the tools, so try to keep it off the tools.
http://i.cubeupload.com/hdveUJ.jpg

You repeat the process for the lower bead, with the tire iron again going
in step-side up as in the first bead (the same way as it did for the upper
bead).
http://i.cubeupload.com/5BIFb7.jpg

Once the tire was off the rim, I cut off the old 1-1/4 inch tire valve
from the underside with a utility knife, where the old valve was in
surprisingly good shape, so I might have kept it had I not wanted to test
out the 4-way valve-seating tool and the fit of the longer new 1-1/2 inch
long tire valves.
http://i.cubeupload.com/f5L099.jpg

After lubricating the new 1-1/2 inch valve with dish soap, I threaded on
the 4-way tool and pulled it through so easily that it was shockingly
simple.

Later you'll see I have a much better idea to replace that silly 4-way tool
that I already have in my compressor toolbox, so I never needed the silly
4-way tool in the first place, but I didn't realize that until later.
http://i.cubeupload.com/goBGRq.jpg

Only later, when I was filling the tire with air, did I realize that a
handy tool for pulling the valve would have been my compressor
football/soccer-ball needle-valve tool, with the needle valve removed,
which spins onto the valve threads with ease and which has a nice trigger
handle to grab onto so that the valve can be pulled into place.

But I didn't think of this at the time I was seating the first valve, so,
it's just a lesson learned for the future, and for someone else who happens
to read this for hints on how to do the job without that silly 4-way valve
seating tool (which is never needed).
http://i.cubeupload.com/Zr23tu.jpg

The bottom bead of the new tire went on 3/4 of the way by hand, and then
with a two-foot tire iron, the last quarter went on relatively easily.
http://i.cubeupload.com/mA6HJx.jpg

It's important to remember to flip the tool and set the hook side
appropriately because you're not going to seat the top bead unless you have
the tool oriented this way exactly. (Lord knows what the other tip is use
for.)
http://i.cubeupload.com/3xskBg.jpg

You'll want to ensure you seat the bead at the tire-valve first because
that last quarter gets dicey where you have to use the most strength in the
whole job, and where a slippery bar gets obnoxious.

I had to vise grip the end of the bar that I was holding because it kept
twisting off the bead but with vise grips, it was manageable.

At the very least, you'll want to use vise grips to hold the slippery upper
bead from slipping off as you try to force the last 1/4 of the upper bead
onto the rim.
http://i.cubeupload.com/r6g3JG.jpg

This is the point where you're extremely glad the tool is firmly bolted to
cement, as the force is as much as you can give it.

Even so, I found I had to ditch the slippery but huge red pry bar and
resort to two 24-inch tire irons to leverage the remaining upper bead over
onto the wheel rim.
http://i.cubeupload.com/czF7Qu.jpg

It's at this point, before you fill the tire with air, that you line up the
red dot to the match-mounting marks, or, the yellow dot to the valve stem
(if there is no red dot) or if there is a red dot but no match mounting
marks, then you line up the red dot to the valve stem.

After doing that, I first removed the inner valve stem of the Schrader
valve and tried to use my latching air chuck, but without the valve stem,
the darn chuck wouldn't pass any air (so I gave up on this method).
http://i.cubeupload.com/WJGeQr.jpg

It was dark and drizzly when I just decided to put the valve stem back in
and put the latching chuck back on (although later I found a neat trick
that I will try with the next tire).

It turns out that having the valve stem in or out really made no difference
whatsoever, it seems, with respect to getting the air inside and getting
the bead to seat.

The trick to seating the bead is really to have two hands free to hold the
tire edges and jiggle, wiggle, coerce, tug and jerk the tire as it's loose
when you're trying to get the bead to seat.

Once you get the tire in a certain position, you can just feel it starting
to blow up, where it seats and finally pops a few times as you work up the
pressure to 40, 50, and 60 psi.
http://i.cubeupload.com/5RH8RC.jpg

Further proof that the silly 4-way tool is worthless is the fact that it
doesn't have a pin for letting the air out of the valve to drop the
pressure down from 60 psi back to 40 where it belongs.

Rummaging around in my compressor kit, I found this needle-valve which is
normally used to inflate footballs and soccer balls, but which deflates the
tire without sharp points like those that are on the silly and useless
4-way tool.
http://i.cubeupload.com/aS0xdG.jpg

It was at this point that I realized that the football/soccerball inflator
handle can be used for the next tire to inflate the tire quickly without
the schrader valve being in place, so I will try it this way on the next
tire to see if it works.

(It may require a third hand to press the trigger, but I can probably wire
the trigger pressed because both hands will be needed to coerce the tire
into momentarily seating while the air is filling it up.)
http://i.cubeupload.com/DZJO2y.jpg

At this point it's time to make two checks of the valve stem.

Ensure the red (radial runout) dot is at the valve stem
Ensure with a straight edge that the valve doesn't stick out past the rim


Since it was dark, I didn't bother looking for match mounting marks on the
old rim, so, I simply lined up the red dot with the tire valve since the
red dot indicates the tire's high point for radial runout and radial force
variation, which takes precedence over the yellow dot which indicates the
tire's light spot which would have been paired with the valve stem on the
wheel which is the wheel's heavy spot had the red dot not existed.
http://i.cubeupload.com/1dxFGN.jpg
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Default Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 14:06:51 -0600, dpb advised:

at $60+/- at the moment...keep watching/looking and can eventually find
a usable changer that will actually work.


I found a way to shore up the harbor freight tire changer so that it works
on the tougher 75-series 108T SUV tires (60 series passenger tires would be
far easier) and posted that as a response to the original post.

One question though, is what tool do you guys recommend for removing the
old crimp on wheel weights?

http://i.cubeupload.com/0D6Lnt.jpg
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Default Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 19:46:10 -0500, advised:

Not ALL BBS wheels have the full caps . I was thinking the center
caps used on many BBS wheels that have their nuts exposed


Fair enough. But anyway, the tire shops I've been to don't even carry the
five-dollar BBS plastic hubcap wrench. You know what they do instead of
twisting off the plastic hubcaps?

They tear them off with a screwdriver.
Ask me how I know.

Every mechanic that ever worked for me removed all the weights before
removing tires, and ballanced from scratch. We ballanced to 1/4 ounce


Fair enough. That's how it's *supposed* to be done.
But it isn't always done that way (ask me how I know).

By far not everyone does that. A LOT of people have summer and winter
rims, and when one set gets worn to the point they need replacement,
they drop those rims off at the shop to have new tires installed when
they are removed to install the other seasonals.


I know that. I used to live in cold country.
It makes sense to keep a set of rims around for that purpose.
It also might make sense to mount and balance your own tires for this
purpose, as it would vastly make the payback period sooner since you don't
have to spend money on four wheel rims (depends on the cost of the rims, of
course).

So they inflate them to 100-140PSI, do they???? That's what their
compressor puts out.


C'mon. Don't take me for a fool.
There are things called R-E-G-U-L-A-T-O-R-S on the compressor output.
Even you must be aware of that.

Like I said, if that's the service you are getting that's the service
you are paying for. Go to a better level of shop.


These are *all* either Costco, or Tire Rack Recommended Installers.
My theory is that they *know* how to change tires, but they also know that
almost nobody who comes to them knows how tires are supposed to be changed.

They skip steps to save time, where, for them, time is money.
It's that simple.

The mechanics make a hell of a lot less than that, and if you are
paying that much and not getting proper service, raise hell and vote
with your feet.


I *am* voting with my feet.

1. The 460/A/A tires were bought for $68
2. We didn't pay any shipping fees
3. I changed the first tire today
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!or...o/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ

What's next?
a. Change the other 4 tires (I have to move the spare off the rim)
b. Balance all five tires (including the spare)
c. Align the front camber, caster, and toe at home

I don't understand where you are getting your work done and why you
don't set them straight. You know how to bitch, so do it where it has
a chance of doing some good.


Heh heh heh heh ... I have *bitched* as you suggested, and gotten my tires
mounted for free. I even was instrumental in getting a tire shop kicked out
of the Tire Rack Recommended Program because I documented their foibles.

But I'd rather not bitch. I'd rather just get the job done right, at home.

A. Mounting and repairing tires
B. Balancing tires
C. Alignment

Those three things, I feel, everyone should know how to do since they only
require basic capabilities and basic tools.

BULL****. They have a chart with the torque specs.


Actually, they don't.
Long story, I once had a car that was older aligned at Sears and they
didn't do anything. They charged me, but they didn't do anything.
When I complained, a day later (after checking the bolts because I had
painted them after contemplating doing the alignment myself after replacing
the tierod ends, pitman arm, and idler arm), they found the only thing
correct was the toein, which I had done myself.

When they questioned the tech, he said he didn't have charts for such an
old vehicle, so he just didn't do anything.

How many people have they cheated?
Thousands I'll bet.

How many people are they *still* cheating?
Thousands I bet.

Why?
Because they're too lazy to look things up.

Basically all steel rims with a given stud size use the same torque,
and all alloys of that size another torque - and the torque goes up
with the stud size.


Dunno that. All I know is that my bimmer is 84 foot pounds for the lug
bolts.

Then bitch at them and vote with your feet - but I'm almost 100%
positive you will screw up more than they do.


It will be a steep learning curve, but I've already mounted my first tire
and I'm sure I'll just get exponentially better with the next four.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!or...o/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ

Then I will balance them.
Then I will align the car.

Shouldn't be too hard, but as I said, there will be a steep learning curve.
I'm sure I'll have lots of questions when the time comes.

But right now, I'm giving back to the team, as all good Usenet posters
should. That is why I wrote this up:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!or...o/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ

Again, bull****. You say $100 to $150 an hour - if they are on the
clock, they get paid, so why not take the time???


You don't seem to have any clue that management won't let them spend an
hour or two per vehicle to change the tires.

If it's flat rate, it's a different story - but they are not charing
by the "hour" but by the "labour unit" - which may or may not relate
closely to an hour.


What you seem to be completely ignorant of is the business model that the
management follows, which is that they need to get cars in and out of the
bays in order to charge for things done.

You amaze me sometimes.
Did you ever work in any company that charged for the job done?

Then find a good independent GARAGE to do your work, not a tire
"stealership" Find a garage to do the required repairs on your
vehicle that you can trust - then trust them to do the job. That
doesn't mean don't check up on them - it just means trust them to do
the job, and let them know you are happy with them when they do, and
that you are not when they don't


What you post is perfectly apropos for the ladies crocheting group, but
this is a home repair group, where people do their own stuff.

Nobody is telling you that YOU have to change your tires yourself, but it's
perfectly apropos to ask here.

Plus, I'm clearly doing the job since you can see the photos.
How many people are that good that they give back to Usenet with well
documented step by step photo filled how tos?

I'm one of the best.
I just haven't changed tires before.

Then I will balance them.
And then I will align the vehicle.

It's not rocket science but it does take a team, which is why I am here
asking those of you who have done it before for advice.

And you are getting ****ty work for that price.


Which is why I am doing it myself.

I didn't say how much you pay necessarily has a bearing on the
quality - only that if you just shop by price, don't be surprized if
the oats have already been therough the horse.\


What's the difference between a Nexen NPriz AH5 sized P225/75R15 from Tire
Rack, SimpleTire, or (assuming Costco sells it), Costco?

Answer?
Price.

That's about it.
Especially if I am going to install them myself.

One price could be double the other.
The price has absolutely no bearing on quality.

Anyone who says it does, knows absolutely nothing.
They just use price because it's an easy number to compare things.

They simply assume that if TireRack sells the tire for $100 and Costco
sells it for $120, then Costco must have a better quality tire.

But it's the same tire no matter where you buy it.
The price has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality.

The quality has everything to do with quality.
It's really that simple.
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 16:36:56 -0600, RonNNN advised:

From what I've read from you, you don't appear qualified to do *any* job
"right". JMHO


How did I do here?
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!or...o/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ


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On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 17:16:44 -0800, Oren advised:

Feeble attempt at a troll. Keep digging. You will post 500 threads
before you understand. I guess you think those clowns at HF have
better advice for you, Go for it.


Oren.
You are dead wrong.

But, let me prove it.
Do you see this post as a troll?
Why or why not?

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!or...o/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 20:02:13 -0500, advised:

Ha Ha Ha. I've changed tires with nothing but tire irons.


So have I, but they were motorcycle tires.

Would I waste my money on one of those tire changers to do my own?
Not as long as I lived within 10 miles of a real tire machine.


Look. I think you forget what newsgroup this is.
Look at the newsgroup.

Is this the ladies auxiliary club?

If all you're gonna do is spout that you have to get tires changed at a
professional shop, then maybe the ladies crocheting group is more apropos
for you?

Would I use a bubble
balancer to balance the wheels on my own vehicles today? Not on your
life.


Let me ask you a fair and simple question, since we covered this topic
already so you know where I'm coming from.

What would you say if there is no vibration after a set of tires were
mounted?

Would you *still* spend the $80 bucks (minimum) to have the wheels
dynamically road-force balanced?

Why?

When I change my own steering parts I line the front up to
"reasonably close" and then drive it over to a local shop and pay them
to do an accurate alignment. - and i KNOW how to do it.


I did my pitman arm, idler arm, and tie rod ends, and aligned the car
myself (long story with Sears charging for the alignment and never doing
it).

That was years ago, before I learned that almost all tire and alignment
shops are crooks.

Alignment is next on my list, by the way, but since I now have the
bead-braking and mounting part solved, I first am going to tackle the
balancing.

After balancing, I'll tackle alignment.

One place I worked we had a "slip guage" that told us when we drove a
car into the shop if the alignment was apppreciably out - and that
test was done free of charge to every vehicle that came in the door.


My plan for alignment is as simple (and logical) as my plan for balancing.

I'm going to align the SUV myself (since all it takes is front caster,
camber, and toe). The rear is a solid axle and can't be adjusted.

Then I'm gonna find a shop that does free checks, and if my alignment is
correct, the check is free. If not, I pay for the alignment.

What do you see as a pitfall in my simple and logical plan?
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 23:38:36 +0000, Stormin' Norman advised:

I have taken tires and rims to Costco and asked them to dismount and
mount other tires and they were happy to do it without me having
purchased the tires from them.

One time I gave the guy at the counter a case of St. Pauli Girl beer
and they did it all for free......


Don't get me wrong. I love Costco. In fact, I'm gonna take the old tires to
them for $1 plus ten cents tax where they will dispose of them for me.

If I took them to the local tire shop nearby me, it would cost $7 per tire
plus 70 cents tax (I hate that California taxes everything multiple times
where tires are taxed three times!)

Even if I took them to the local Pep Boys, it would still cost $3.50 plus
sales tax of about 35 cents.

Costco is the best for some things.
However, the one thing Costco sucks at is short lines & product selection.

I have gotten tires at Costco quite a few times, but I just gave up.
It takes far too long.
Never less than an hour wait, and often two or three hours (especially when
they run their annual tire sales).

Plus, Costco has a sucky selection of tires, and they won't mount any tires
you bring to them (I'm surprised your Costco did that because mine won't).

But they do give you free rotations and lovely green nitrogen air.
But overall, Costco isn't cost effective compared to what I can get online.

But I love Costco for other things (like diapers, similac, roasted chicken,
etc.).
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 20:11:45 -0500, advised:

I buy my tires from a reputable local dealer who gets to make the
markup on the tires, and charges me $15 canadian to install and
balance them.


I think we got a far better deal than you do, because we *thought* about
the problem set ahead of time, so as to maximize what our money buys.

For example, we chose the tires for their $68 price, and for their 460
traction, A treadwear, and A temperature ratings, based on the OEM specs
from Toyota of a 102S P225/75R15 tire for the OEM wheels.

Normally we use Tire Rack but
https://simpletire.com/ gave them to us for
free shipping (which saved $16 per tire right off the bat). It did take
about 10 days (including the weekend) so that was one drawback, but in
general, a few days extra time isn't all that critical when deciding to
replace a set of tires.

So, the total cost for 4 460/A/A tires was, literally, $68 per tire.

I'm not a cheap-ass who believes he can always get a better deal
on-line. I give my business to local businesses - owned by my
neighbours, who employ my neighbours and pay local taxes in my
community..


Again, you are filled to the brim with cliches, but you're welcome to them.
This is a *technical* question, not a philosophical one.
You can wax philosophically on alt.philosophy or alt.economic.theory.

That goes for tires, appliances, and just about everything
else I buy. If it is available locally, I buy locally. I'm not a rich
man - but I make my living here, and I believe my nieghbours should be
able to make their living here too. That means sometimes I pay a few
dollars more than buying from out of the area - but on the whole I
believe I'm getting as good value for my money locally as I would getr
anywhere.


You probably should be waxing on alt.philosophy for this post.

As far as getting your money back, I truly don't believe you will
ever make your money back on your DIY tire changing and alignment
schemes - because you WILL screw up more than you save. Virtually
guaranteed. You have proven you don't understand what is involved.


Heh heh heh heh ... you make me laugh.

You're actually *scared* of people like me.
Because I can do things that you wouldn't dare do yourself.

I may start out ignorant, but I end up knowing far more than you ever will.
That's not because I'm smarter than you are; I'm just far more willing to
learn than you are.

And, I'm certainly far more willing to give back since I know that the
power of Usenet is not only being able to ask experts questions, but to
also give back so that the next person stands on our shoulders.

Here's an example of classic Usenet giving back to the team:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!or...o/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ
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On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 19:01:48 -0600, Vic Smith advised:

Nothing wrong with doing you own tires if you want to.


Thanks for the encouragement.

This is alt.home.repair so it's not alt.ladies.cardgames.

I presume you guys do things.

Changing a tire can't be difficult for most of you guys.

Anyway, with all your great advice, I was able to redesign the
tire-changing machine and get the job done.

I wrote up the steps I used over here so that others can start where I left
off (20/20 hindsight being what it is, I would have done things differently
so I want others to benefit from my experience):
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!or...o/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ

One minor remaining question is what tool do you guys use to remove and
replace the crimp-on weights?
http://i.cubeupload.com/0D6Lnt.jpg


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On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 06:35:13 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 23:38:36 +0000, Stormin' Norman advised:

I have taken tires and rims to Costco and asked them to dismount and
mount other tires and they were happy to do it without me having
purchased the tires from them.

One time I gave the guy at the counter a case of St. Pauli Girl beer
and they did it all for free......


Don't get me wrong. I love Costco. In fact, I'm gonna take the old tires to
them for $1 plus ten cents tax where they will dispose of them for me.

If I took them to the local tire shop nearby me, it would cost $7 per tire
plus 70 cents tax (I hate that California taxes everything multiple times
where tires are taxed three times!)

Even if I took them to the local Pep Boys, it would still cost $3.50 plus
sales tax of about 35 cents.

Costco is the best for some things.
However, the one thing Costco sucks at is short lines & product selection.

I have gotten tires at Costco quite a few times, but I just gave up.
It takes far too long.
Never less than an hour wait, and often two or three hours (especially when
they run their annual tire sales).

Plus, Costco has a sucky selection of tires, and they won't mount any tires
you bring to them (I'm surprised your Costco did that because mine won't).

But they do give you free rotations and lovely green nitrogen air.
But overall, Costco isn't cost effective compared to what I can get online.

But I love Costco for other things (like diapers, similac, roasted chicken,
etc.).


Frank, I am not trying to sell you on Costco. I simply related my
personal experience. I also have excellent luck with Discount Tire,
in this part of the country they are a giant in the tire retailing
business and will beat any price you bring them, even the online
sellers.
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On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 13:24:39 +0000, Stormin' Norman advised:

Frank, I am not trying to sell you on Costco. I simply related my
personal experience. I also have excellent luck with Discount Tire,
in this part of the country they are a giant in the tire retailing
business and will beat any price you bring them, even the online
sellers.


I understand, and appreciate your recommendation.
I used to do all the things everyone else does, so I'm familiar with every
way to buy tires (if I skipped a method, let me know).

1. When I was a kid in college, I bought tires at junk yards right off of
junked cars, but I stopped doing that when my five-dollar tires wobbled
while driving. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out what the vibration
was, because the tires looked fine. People would point to my tires as they
drove by, when one day, a guy followed me off the highway and told me my
tires were flexing like a balloon. Replacing those junk-yard tires solved
my vibration problem; but it could have been (much) worse.

2. Swearing off junk-yard tires, I would then buy tires on sale at Sears.
They sold them mostly by warranty (of all things). So I would buy the tires
based on warranty as I recall (although this was in the day of bias ply so
I don't remember all the details). I do remember looking at a wall of
mounted tires at sears and trying to figure out what was the best tire
(which was basically impossible to do that way - but I didn't realize it at
the time).

3. Over the years, I learned about TireRack from the Motor Trend and Car
and Driver car magazine advertisements (there were two main companies that
always advertised with a full page of teeny tiny print that I could
actually read without glasses in those days before the Internet). It was
still impossible to select among tires, but at least the price was a *lot*
lower than it was at Sears. Tire Rack would ship to the recommended
installer and the installer would give me the Tire Rack price.

4. At some point, radial tires showed up (which lasted longer than the 25K
miles that bias ply lasted) and UTQG appeared as did Price Club (now
Costco), so at least I could now select tires from the floor-to-ceiling
piles at Costco by the UTQG numbers (and not by a silly warranty figure).

5. Finally, I got used to buying stuff on the Internet, and that was it for
buying anything locally, simply because of the stupendously huge price
difference. Sure, almost everyone will *match* almost everyone else, but
what good is *matching*?

I never understood price matching.
What's the appeal?

Under most circumstances, they match the same price you can get elsewhere.
Um. So what? That's not any better. And, often it's worse (because of sales
tax and selection considerations.)

The *only* reason, IMHO, to price match, is if there is *something* you get
for free out of the price match. But if all you get is the same tire at the
same price that you would have gotten anyway - what's the benefit of price
matching?

I'd rather give my business to the guy who advertises and sells at the
lowest price than to the guy who advertises and sells at a higher price who
only drops his price when you put a gun to his head.

Of course, if you get *something* for free from price matching, then it
makes total sense. Many examples can occur, but I'll just flesh out a
typical one which is that, say, you can get tires in 10 days from company X
online, where the total cost (let's say) is $400 for 4 tires, shipped,
taxed, and installed.

If you walk up to a tire shop, and say "will you match this price" and if
they match the *price*, then you're getting something for free because you
don't have to wait the 10 days for shipping.

So, to me, price matching is utterly useless unless you get something for
free out of the deal, other than price.

To me, *price beating* is what I like!
If someone says they will *beat* the Internet price by, say, 10 percent,
that's worth switching.

But just price matching?

Naaah. That's like replacing your favorite toolbox hammer with another
exactly similar hammer. There's no benefit whatsoever to the swap, and the
original hammer deserves a bit more respect.
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On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 05:34:15 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote:


By George - when he stops to think he actually CAN figure things
out!!!!!! From the questions origionally asked it appeared he could
not find his ass with both hands - He has surprised me. My appologies
- seriously.
but I'd still be wary of using THAT tire changer on the expensive
alloy rims without some more "modifications"
You really surprised me Frank -- Kudos.
I'm man enought o admit when I've been wrong.....

On Mon, 12 Dec 2016 23:45:12 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron advised:

I have a question about mounting and balancing tires at home that didn't
come up when I was researching this problem. If you have never mounted or
balanced your own passenger-car tires, then you won't know the answers
(most likely) but if you have, you'll know because you must have solved
this problem.

I have the Harbor Freight Pittsburgh Manual Tire Changer HF item #62317
which is mounted in concrete so that it is stable.

That tire changer comes with a "bead breaker" but the bead is just not
breaking when I used it today!
http://i.cubeupload.com/f8FCTC.jpg

I also bought a couple of Harbor Freight item #61603 Pittsburgh 24 in.
General Purpose Tire Irons.
http://i.cubeupload.com/7q7Tq0.jpg

The problem is that the harbor freight tire changer bead breaker just seems
to slip off when following the instructions.
http://i.cubeupload.com/7CdvVu.jpg

I would be glad to use the the Harbor Freight item #67403 Tire Bead Breaker
with Swan Neck:
http://i.cubeupload.com/Qcg2YR.jpg

But it doesn't come with instructions.
Have you used these goose-neck bead breakers on passenger tires?

Which way does the goose-neck go?
a. It can't fit under the rim with the finger pointing up, and,
b. It can't fit under the bead with the finger pointing down.

So how did you use this bead breaker anyway?


The main problem is simply that I have a tough tire (a 108T, which is a
pretty thick SUV tire compared to much easier passenger car tires), and
that the harbor freight tire-changing tool requires modification to work on
such tough tires without bending.

I took my time to document what I learned so that the next person who uses
the same equipment can benefit from the 20/20 hindsight this tutorial
provides them for how to use the harbor freight tire changer to:
a. Break the lower bead of the old tire away from the wheel
b. Break the upper bead of the old tire away from the wheel
c. Remove the upper bead of the old tire from the wheel
d. Remove the lower bead of the old tire from the wheel
e. Remove the old Schrader valve and stem assembly
f. Insert the new Schrader valve and stem assembly
g. Place the lower bead of the new tire on the wheel
h. Place the upper bead of the new tire on the wheel
i. Align the red (or yellow) dot to the valve stem (or to the wheel
match-mounting mark)
j. Seat the beads by filling the tire with air
k. Check the valve stem clearance, match mounting marks, and adjust
pressure to normal psi

The goal is that they start knowing all the things that I just learned
today, which make the job far easier and which makes the tools work far
better.

The first thing I did was straighten out the bent bead-breaking wedge bars,
which was so easy to do one might conclude that they're actually made of
rubber.
http://i.cubeupload.com/JfWmot.jpg

What the bead breaker shovel needs, from the start, is a bit of support,
which is shown here (but after using it, I realized it needs to be about 2
inches from the top of the wedge to leave clearance for the rim of the
wheel when breaking beads).

Luckily this wedge simply moved out of the way because it was just press
fit in and wrapped with solid 120V copper wire. (Given more time, I would
not weaken the bars any further by drilling bolt holes - but - I would
strap in a rectangular block of wood instead of this fence post, which just
happened to be handy.)
http://i.cubeupload.com/hzdzpZ.jpg

I started on the inside bead, which I'm told, is the harder one to break.

By moving the Clovis pin to the outside adjustment hole (making the angle
about 90 degrees to the tire), and with this artificially strengthened
wedge, I was (finally) able to apply (far) more force on the 108T tire bead
without the wedge slipping off the bead itself.
http://i.cubeupload.com/VIu5nb.jpg

The fence post got in the way of the rim as shown in this photo, so, if you
permanently mount it, make sure it's shorter by about 2 or 3 inches than
the space allotted, and make sure it's mounted up high and not low where
mine is now.

Notice how the wooden block hits the rim?
You don't want that.

You want the block to stay higher up, away from the rim by a couple of
inches.
But, in this case, it didn't matter because the block moved when pressure
was placed on it.
http://i.cubeupload.com/kYwRJt.jpg

The stronger wedge plus the 90 degree angle from using the furthest-out of
the 3 adjustment pin holes allowed me to apply enough force to finally pop
the inside-rim bead of the admittedly strong 108T tire sidewall.
http://i.cubeupload.com/tMHBFS.jpg

Only after I popped the underside tire bead did I try to remove the lever
arm, where I found that it bent at about a 10 or 15 degree angle. It took
that much force, but you have to also realize that this harbor freight
metal is soft as rubber.
http://i.cubeupload.com/3q4ZU3.jpg

After straightening the bent tire iron as much as I could, and after moving
the clovis pin to the center hole to get more of an angle, and using a tire
iron to keep a depressed bead down, I easily popped the upper bead.
http://i.cubeupload.com/k527JN.jpg

Placing the tire iron flat step with the step side up, allowed me to start
spinning the top bead off the wheel rim without lubrication:
http://i.cubeupload.com/Zf44Tl.jpg

Adding dish detergent helped a lot to spin the top bead off, where I'd say
it's a requirement to have lubrication but everything gets slippery, even
the tools, so try to keep it off the tools.
http://i.cubeupload.com/hdveUJ.jpg

You repeat the process for the lower bead, with the tire iron again going
in step-side up as in the first bead (the same way as it did for the upper
bead).
http://i.cubeupload.com/5BIFb7.jpg

Once the tire was off the rim, I cut off the old 1-1/4 inch tire valve
from the underside with a utility knife, where the old valve was in
surprisingly good shape, so I might have kept it had I not wanted to test
out the 4-way valve-seating tool and the fit of the longer new 1-1/2 inch
long tire valves.
http://i.cubeupload.com/f5L099.jpg

After lubricating the new 1-1/2 inch valve with dish soap, I threaded on
the 4-way tool and pulled it through so easily that it was shockingly
simple.

Later you'll see I have a much better idea to replace that silly 4-way tool
that I already have in my compressor toolbox, so I never needed the silly
4-way tool in the first place, but I didn't realize that until later.
http://i.cubeupload.com/goBGRq.jpg

Only later, when I was filling the tire with air, did I realize that a
handy tool for pulling the valve would have been my compressor
football/soccer-ball needle-valve tool, with the needle valve removed,
which spins onto the valve threads with ease and which has a nice trigger
handle to grab onto so that the valve can be pulled into place.

But I didn't think of this at the time I was seating the first valve, so,
it's just a lesson learned for the future, and for someone else who happens
to read this for hints on how to do the job without that silly 4-way valve
seating tool (which is never needed).
http://i.cubeupload.com/Zr23tu.jpg

The bottom bead of the new tire went on 3/4 of the way by hand, and then
with a two-foot tire iron, the last quarter went on relatively easily.
http://i.cubeupload.com/mA6HJx.jpg

It's important to remember to flip the tool and set the hook side
appropriately because you're not going to seat the top bead unless you have
the tool oriented this way exactly. (Lord knows what the other tip is use
for.)
http://i.cubeupload.com/3xskBg.jpg

You'll want to ensure you seat the bead at the tire-valve first because
that last quarter gets dicey where you have to use the most strength in the
whole job, and where a slippery bar gets obnoxious.

I had to vise grip the end of the bar that I was holding because it kept
twisting off the bead but with vise grips, it was manageable.

At the very least, you'll want to use vise grips to hold the slippery upper
bead from slipping off as you try to force the last 1/4 of the upper bead
onto the rim.
http://i.cubeupload.com/r6g3JG.jpg

This is the point where you're extremely glad the tool is firmly bolted to
cement, as the force is as much as you can give it.

Even so, I found I had to ditch the slippery but huge red pry bar and
resort to two 24-inch tire irons to leverage the remaining upper bead over
onto the wheel rim.
http://i.cubeupload.com/czF7Qu.jpg

It's at this point, before you fill the tire with air, that you line up the
red dot to the match-mounting marks, or, the yellow dot to the valve stem
(if there is no red dot) or if there is a red dot but no match mounting
marks, then you line up the red dot to the valve stem.

After doing that, I first removed the inner valve stem of the Schrader
valve and tried to use my latching air chuck, but without the valve stem,
the darn chuck wouldn't pass any air (so I gave up on this method).
http://i.cubeupload.com/WJGeQr.jpg

It was dark and drizzly when I just decided to put the valve stem back in
and put the latching chuck back on (although later I found a neat trick
that I will try with the next tire).

It turns out that having the valve stem in or out really made no difference
whatsoever, it seems, with respect to getting the air inside and getting
the bead to seat.

The trick to seating the bead is really to have two hands free to hold the
tire edges and jiggle, wiggle, coerce, tug and jerk the tire as it's loose
when you're trying to get the bead to seat.

Once you get the tire in a certain position, you can just feel it starting
to blow up, where it seats and finally pops a few times as you work up the
pressure to 40, 50, and 60 psi.
http://i.cubeupload.com/5RH8RC.jpg

Further proof that the silly 4-way tool is worthless is the fact that it
doesn't have a pin for letting the air out of the valve to drop the
pressure down from 60 psi back to 40 where it belongs.

Rummaging around in my compressor kit, I found this needle-valve which is
normally used to inflate footballs and soccer balls, but which deflates the
tire without sharp points like those that are on the silly and useless
4-way tool.
http://i.cubeupload.com/aS0xdG.jpg

It was at this point that I realized that the football/soccerball inflator
handle can be used for the next tire to inflate the tire quickly without
the schrader valve being in place, so I will try it this way on the next
tire to see if it works.

(It may require a third hand to press the trigger, but I can probably wire
the trigger pressed because both hands will be needed to coerce the tire
into momentarily seating while the air is filling it up.)
http://i.cubeupload.com/DZJO2y.jpg

At this point it's time to make two checks of the valve stem.

Ensure the red (radial runout) dot is at the valve stem
Ensure with a straight edge that the valve doesn't stick out past the rim


Since it was dark, I didn't bother looking for match mounting marks on the
old rim, so, I simply lined up the red dot with the tire valve since the
red dot indicates the tire's high point for radial runout and radial force
variation, which takes precedence over the yellow dot which indicates the
tire's light spot which would have been paired with the valve stem on the
wheel which is the wheel's heavy spot had the red dot not existed.
http://i.cubeupload.com/1dxFGN.jpg


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Default Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?

On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 05:36:12 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 14:06:51 -0600, dpb advised:

at $60+/- at the moment...keep watching/looking and can eventually find
a usable changer that will actually work.


I found a way to shore up the harbor freight tire changer so that it works
on the tougher 75-series 108T SUV tires (60 series passenger tires would be
far easier) and posted that as a response to the original post.

One question though, is what tool do you guys recommend for removing the
old crimp on wheel weights?

http://i.cubeupload.com/0D6Lnt.jpg



Oh no - after what I just said, here we go again!!!!
A damned wheel weight pliers, of coarse!!!
Google "wheel weight pliers"
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On 2016-12-13 11:35 PM, Frank Baron wrote:
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 19:01:48 -0600, Vic Smith advised:

CHOP

A better question is why does Danny keep changing names?




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Default Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?

On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 06:35:07 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 19:46:10 -0500, advised:

Not ALL BBS wheels have the full caps . I was thinking the center
caps used on many BBS wheels that have their nuts exposed


Fair enough. But anyway, the tire shops I've been to don't even carry the
five-dollar BBS plastic hubcap wrench. You know what they do instead of
twisting off the plastic hubcaps?

They tear them off with a screwdriver.
Ask me how I know.

Every mechanic that ever worked for me removed all the weights before
removing tires, and ballanced from scratch. We ballanced to 1/4 ounce


Fair enough. That's how it's *supposed* to be done.
But it isn't always done that way (ask me how I know).

By far not everyone does that. A LOT of people have summer and winter
rims, and when one set gets worn to the point they need replacement,
they drop those rims off at the shop to have new tires installed when
they are removed to install the other seasonals.


I know that. I used to live in cold country.
It makes sense to keep a set of rims around for that purpose.
It also might make sense to mount and balance your own tires for this
purpose, as it would vastly make the payback period sooner since you don't
have to spend money on four wheel rims (depends on the cost of the rims, of
course).

So they inflate them to 100-140PSI, do they???? That's what their
compressor puts out.


C'mon. Don't take me for a fool.
There are things called R-E-G-U-L-A-T-O-R-S on the compressor output.
Even you must be aware of that.


"even" I must be aware of that? You take me for a fool?

I took you for one too, with some pretty good evidence, until you
finally proved you COULD figure things out if provoked enough!!! Yes,
I know about regulators - but in 50 years experience I've NEVER seen
anybody use one to inflate a tire. That takes lazy and stupid to a
totally higher level than I've seen - must be a southern thing???

Like I said, if that's the service you are getting that's the service
you are paying for. Go to a better level of shop.


These are *all* either Costco, or Tire Rack Recommended Installers.


Which is somehow supposed to be some kind of a quality recomendation??
My theory is that they *know* how to change tires, but they also know that
almost nobody who comes to them knows how tires are supposed to be changed.

They skip steps to save time, where, for them, time is money.
It's that simple.

The mechanics make a hell of a lot less than that, and if you are
paying that much and not getting proper service, raise hell and vote
with your feet.


I *am* voting with my feet.

1. The 460/A/A tires were bought for $68
2. We didn't pay any shipping fees
3. I changed the first tire today
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!or...o/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ

What's next?
a. Change the other 4 tires (I have to move the spare off the rim)
b. Balance all five tires (including the spare)
c. Align the front camber, caster, and toe at home

I don't understand where you are getting your work done and why you
don't set them straight. You know how to bitch, so do it where it has
a chance of doing some good.


Heh heh heh heh ... I have *bitched* as you suggested, and gotten my tires
mounted for free. I even was instrumental in getting a tire shop kicked out
of the Tire Rack Recommended Program because I documented their foibles.

But I'd rather not bitch. I'd rather just get the job done right, at home.

A. Mounting and repairing tires
B. Balancing tires
C. Alignment

Those three things, I feel, everyone should know how to do since they only
require basic capabilities and basic tools.

BULL****. They have a chart with the torque specs.


Actually, they don't.
Long story, I once had a car that was older aligned at Sears and they
didn't do anything. They charged me, but they didn't do anything.
When I complained, a day later (after checking the bolts because I had
painted them after contemplating doing the alignment myself after replacing
the tierod ends, pitman arm, and idler arm), they found the only thing
correct was the toein, which I had done myself.

When they questioned the tech, he said he didn't have charts for such an
old vehicle, so he just didn't do anything.

How many people have they cheated?


That's what you get at "big box" and "chain" shops - not what you get
at a good independent shop or a dealership. Today all of the specs are
available to anyone with a smart phone if they don't have the data on
the machine. No excuse..
And we were NOT talking alignment - we were talking wheel torque.
Put that brain of yours to work - you proved ONCE that you have the
brains to figure things out. Use them...
Thousands I'll bet.

How many people are they *still* cheating?
Thousands I bet.

Why?
Because they're too lazy to look things up.

Basically all steel rims with a given stud size use the same torque,
and all alloys of that size another torque - and the torque goes up
with the stud size.


Dunno that. All I know is that my bimmer is 84 foot pounds for the lug
bolts.



About right for an M12 stud or bolt on an alloy rim. - tire direct's
chart says 90 ft lbs except for 2002 to 2008 600 and 700 series and M5
and M6 which are 105 ft lbs (they use 14mm studs/bolts)
I imagine that spec is for steel wheels - alloys are generally about 5
ft lb less.

Then bitch at them and vote with your feet - but I'm almost 100%
positive you will screw up more than they do.


It will be a steep learning curve, but I've already mounted my first tire
and I'm sure I'll just get exponentially better with the next four.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!or...o/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ

Then I will balance them.
Then I will align the car.

Shouldn't be too hard, but as I said, there will be a steep learning curve.
I'm sure I'll have lots of questions when the time comes.


Before you start asking too many questions, stop and think it out
like you finally did with your tire changing. When you check your
alignment - if what you can check is OK, good. But if what you can
check is NOT OK, I would still STRONGLY recommend you take it to a
GOOD front end shop, or the dealer, to have it checked to be sure
nothing is bent and the caster isn't off.
There is really NOTHING on that car that can change the alignment
without bending something, wearing something, or breaking something.

Do your homework on the toe conversion issue. Like I said - project
your displaced car centerline about 5 feet minimum ahead of the wheel
centerline. then project the wheel angle out to intersect the
displaced centerline and make your measurements there. Construct a
right angle triangle, as large as possible from the projected lines,
and solve the triangle for the hypoteneuse angle.
You need to displace the centerline or the triangle will be a block
long - - -
Again - stop and look at and read and understand the information
that has been given to you. Then think about it and you will be able
to figure out what you are doing and why.

That's what I always told my students.
Don't just ASS U ME the guys giving you advice don't have a clue. I
did this for YEARS - and I taught both high school and trade level
Auto Mechanics in a "former life".
I know how to do it. I've done it. And I've taught many others how to
do it.

I've done it in Canada, and I've done it in the bush of Zambia and
Burkina Faso - So I've done it with the most advanced and the most
basic tools, and I've done it on everything from as basic as a 1928
Chev to Mecedes and Rolls Royce, with just about any level in between
you can imagine, as well as industrial and agricultural equipment.

The toe in is the EASY one. because you CAN "amplify" the measurement
to increase accuracy. The Camber you can tell if it is appreciably out
- but you cannot be accurate enough to say it's out 1/2 a degree -
and adjust it accurately. You could be 1/2 a degree out in your
initial measurement and end up making irt worse.

As for balancing? You can make it "close" with a bubble balancer, but
you will NOT be able to correct a "dynamic balance" problem. Google it
and understand it - if you stop to put that brain of yours to work you
CAN figure it out and understand why it is impossible to fix a dynamic
balance problem with a bubble balancer. Dynamic balance becomes
critical at speed - particularly on a car with a lightweight
responsive suspension. (which describes your little "wiener wagon" to
a tee). If you never drive over 55mph, or never drive on a good smooth
highway, and the dynamic balance is not off by more than half an ounce
or so (which you will never know) you may not notice any problem.
Driving at 65mph and up on a good smooth superhighway and the steering
wheel starts doing the tango from side to side? That is almost always
due to a dynamic ballance problem. It shimmies. Static balance
tramps.. So of course it's more critical on the front wheels of a rear
drive car than on a front drive, or on the rear wheels.
The "shimmy" even if it does not bother you, is causing wear in the
front suspension and steering linkage - so it IS important to have the
tires properly dynamic balanced.
Most modern tire balancers have 2 modes - standard and "precision".
Precision doubles the accuracy of the balancer - down to 1/4 ounce and
a degree or so of rotation from the 1/2 ounce accuracy of the
"standard" mode.
On my own vehicles I always do "precision" and recheck on "precision"
after installing the weights. to make sure it zeros. Same thing I did
on all luxury or performane vehicles for customers. (and most others
as well - it only takes about 15 seconds longer per cycle to run the
precision balance - and then I KNOW the customer won't come back)

I had a customer with an earlt Supra come in with a "high speed
shimmy" I test drove the car and asked him when I came back from a
perfectly smooth 95mph run "how high is high speed". He said he didn't
have a clue. the speedo didn't go that high. I precision ballanced the
wheels and his roughly 160MPH shimmy dissapeared (the speedo was
150mph, and he pinned it) The problem was about 1/4 ounce of dynamic
inbalance on one front tire - - -




















But right now, I'm giving back to the team, as all good Usenet posters
should. That is why I wrote this up:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!or...o/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ

Again, bull****. You say $100 to $150 an hour - if they are on the
clock, they get paid, so why not take the time???


You don't seem to have any clue that management won't let them spend an
hour or two per vehicle to change the tires.

If it's flat rate, it's a different story - but they are not charing
by the "hour" but by the "labour unit" - which may or may not relate
closely to an hour.


What you seem to be completely ignorant of is the business model that the
management follows, which is that they need to get cars in and out of the
bays in order to charge for things done.

You amaze me sometimes.
Did you ever work in any company that charged for the job done?

Then find a good independent GARAGE to do your work, not a tire
"stealership" Find a garage to do the required repairs on your
vehicle that you can trust - then trust them to do the job. That
doesn't mean don't check up on them - it just means trust them to do
the job, and let them know you are happy with them when they do, and
that you are not when they don't


What you post is perfectly apropos for the ladies crocheting group, but
this is a home repair group, where people do their own stuff.

Nobody is telling you that YOU have to change your tires yourself, but it's
perfectly apropos to ask here.

Plus, I'm clearly doing the job since you can see the photos.
How many people are that good that they give back to Usenet with well
documented step by step photo filled how tos?

I'm one of the best.
I just haven't changed tires before.

Then I will balance them.
And then I will align the vehicle.

It's not rocket science but it does take a team, which is why I am here
asking those of you who have done it before for advice.

And you are getting ****ty work for that price.


Which is why I am doing it myself.

I didn't say how much you pay necessarily has a bearing on the
quality - only that if you just shop by price, don't be surprized if
the oats have already been therough the horse.\


What's the difference between a Nexen NPriz AH5 sized P225/75R15 from Tire
Rack, SimpleTire, or (assuming Costco sells it), Costco?

Answer?
Price.

That's about it.
Especially if I am going to install them myself.

One price could be double the other.
The price has absolutely no bearing on quality.

Anyone who says it does, knows absolutely nothing.
They just use price because it's an easy number to compare things.

They simply assume that if TireRack sells the tire for $100 and Costco
sells it for $120, then Costco must have a better quality tire.

But it's the same tire no matter where you buy it.
The price has nothing whatsoever to do with the quality.

The quality has everything to do with quality.
It's really that simple.


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On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 23:19:45 -0500, advised:

Before you start asking too many questions, stop and think it out
like you finally did with your tire changing.


The tire changing is now very easy.

I did a 60-series passenger-car tire today for a friend who had a flat and
it was so easy I looked like I knew what I was doing. The difference is
that a normal 60 series passenger tire is a piece of cake compared to these
75-series 108T sidewalls on the SUV.

Nonetheless, I have the 75-series SUV tires all figured out now for how to
break the beak so we're pretty much done with this thread for breaking
beads.

Next is figuring out the wheel weights to use (I think I am supposed to use
PZ, PZU, PST, or PSTU styles but I'm double-checking that as I speak.

Alignment comes after that.
http://i.cubeupload.com/WyBNYm.jpg

When you check your
alignment - if what you can check is OK, good. But if what you can
check is NOT OK, I would still STRONGLY recommend you take it to a
GOOD front end shop, or the dealer, to have it checked to be sure
nothing is bent and the caster isn't off.


The problem with the Internet is that everything has to be said, even the
stuff that everyone already knows. Especially when it comes to alignment,
when 99,999 out of 100,000 people are *scared* to do it themselves.

Even if they weren't scared, 95,000 out of 100,000 can't *think* that hard,
because angles and geometries are involved, where some measurements have to
be converted from, say, degrees to inches (or vice versa).

So what we end up in *any* alignment thread, is 95% of the people spouting
utterly useless warnings that everyone already knows and only 5% of the
people helping out on the questions.

You may be in that 5% but you don't need to tell me the stuff that everyone
knows. I only need to know *how* to do it.

For the Toyota, the only things that can be adjusted are front caster,
camber, and toe, where caster & camber are adjusted together and toe is
adjusted separately and last.

Nothing else is adjustable and there is absolutely no indication anywhere
that anything is out of alignment, so it's more of a doublecheck than
anything else.

Caster can be calculated from camber and camber can be measured directly,
as can toe, so, that's the very simple plan of attack.

The actual charts for Toyota SUVs are complex but I'm working on them.
http://i.cubeupload.com/WyBNYm.jpg
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Default Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?

On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 06:35:10 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 17:16:44 -0800, Oren advised:

Feeble attempt at a troll. Keep digging. You will post 500 threads
before you understand. I guess you think those clowns at HF have
better advice for you, Go for it.


Oren.
You are dead wrong.

But, let me prove it.
Do you see this post as a troll?
Why or why not?

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!or...o/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ

No - you finally put your brain in gear.
Keep it up.
But don't let your head get TOO big.

The machine as supplied is CRAP - but it doesn't take MUCH to make it
half-assed decent. Get a steel plate welden in place of the
fence-post.
Put proper bolts (a bit bigger because the fit is sloppy) into
properly re-drilled holes, and install washers where necessary to take
out the slop in the linkages.. Cut the big handle in half and drive in
a rod or sched 40 pipe , then weld the thing back together - now it's
strong enough to do the job without turning into a pretzel.

Then you'll find the next weak point (hint - the guy who welded the
base legs was onto something)
When you are done you'll have a useable tire machine that might last
you a while. - still not a GREAT machine - but better than what you
have.

There's a you-tube out there of a guy who made his own - the rubber
tired steel wheel replacing that awfull spider is a good mod - as is
the one I posted before of the guy using rubber tire sidewall
material. Look them up. Think about what the guys are doing and why
instead of just going off half cocked about how it doesn't tell you
anything.

You need to STOP and THINK. If it doesn't make sense. look again and
UNDERSTAND what they did and why. Sometimes the guys on you-tube ARE
wrong - but you won't know untill you look at what they did, how, and
why.

If you don't, your comebacks and (sometimes very) dumb questions make
you look liike an idiot.

If you are gainfully employed the time spent MIGHT be better spent
earning the money to pay someone else to do the job, if the price of
having it done properly by someone who does a good job is the issue.
If you are doing it more because you enjoy it and you really want to
learn how to do things right, and learn about how things REALLY work -
that's a differnt story - but then, take in all the information you
can from those of us who have been there , done that, and got the
tee-shirt greasy. Don't go out of your way to make enemies of the
guys who can help you understand what you don't know....
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On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 06:35:11 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 20:02:13 -0500, advised:

Ha Ha Ha. I've changed tires with nothing but tire irons.


So have I, but they were motorcycle tires.


And I've done it on tires that would flatten you if they dropped on
you, as well as standard sized automobile and light truck tires.

Would I waste my money on one of those tire changers to do my own?
Not as long as I lived within 10 miles of a real tire machine.


Look. I think you forget what newsgroup this is.
Look at the newsgroup.

Is this the ladies auxiliary club?

No, actually it is alt HOME REPAIR

If all you're gonna do is spout that you have to get tires changed at a
professional shop, then maybe the ladies crocheting group is more apropos
for you?


You are being a prick again.
Read the messages posted just before this one, and take to heart.

Would I use a bubble
balancer to balance the wheels on my own vehicles today? Not on your
life.


Let me ask you a fair and simple question, since we covered this topic
already so you know where I'm coming from.

What would you say if there is no vibration after a set of tires were
mounted?

Would you *still* spend the $80 bucks (minimum) to have the wheels
dynamically road-force balanced?


Dynamic yes, road force, no
Read my earlier reply tonight for the reason why.

Why?

When I change my own steering parts I line the front up to
"reasonably close" and then drive it over to a local shop and pay them
to do an accurate alignment. - and i KNOW how to do it.


I did my pitman arm, idler arm, and tie rod ends, and aligned the car
myself (long story with Sears charging for the alignment and never doing
it).


SEARS??? You gotta be JOKING. They have been outed for decades as
being one of the biggest rip-offs in the "automotive" business., and
their "alignment scams" are the most well publicised. Take your car to
AN ALIGNMENT SPECIALIST

That was years ago, before I learned that almost all tire and alignment
shops are crooks.


Not nearly all - but the "chain" shops most definitely. Find a local
independent shop with a good front end man. They are worth their
weight in gold.

Alignment is next on my list, by the way, but since I now have the
bead-braking and mounting part solved, I first am going to tackle the
balancing.

After balancing, I'll tackle alignment.

One place I worked we had a "slip guage" that told us when we drove a
car into the shop if the alignment was apppreciably out - and that
test was done free of charge to every vehicle that came in the door.


My plan for alignment is as simple (and logical) as my plan for balancing.

I'm going to align the SUV myself (since all it takes is front caster,
camber, and toe). The rear is a solid axle and can't be adjusted.

Then I'm gonna find a shop that does free checks, and if my alignment is
correct, the check is free. If not, I pay for the alignment.

What do you see as a pitfall in my simple and logical plan?


The only pitfall is most "free alignment checks" are worth exactly
what you pay for them - or less.

Replacing your own parts, as long as you are careful and thorough, is
not a bad way to save some money and have some "fun" at the same time.
Just make sure you torque everything properly and don't miss any
cotter pins etc - - - Doing a simple re-alignment of the toe is
pretty simple - at least to get it close enough you can safely drive
it to a good shop to have it verified.and corrected if possible.
Having the rear track checked is not a bad idea either - you don't say
what kind of "SUV" it is, but there have been many cases of the rear
axle being out of line, causing the vehicle to "dog-track" wearing
tires and affecting handling.. A GOOD shop can correct that. Lots of
"SUV"s with bent axle housings too, which can throw out the toe and or
camber - and also cause accelerated failure of the differential
bearings. Have it checked at least once - and again if it ever gets
ANY SERIOUS OFF-ROAD DRIVING.

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On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 06:35:13 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 23:38:36 +0000, Stormin' Norman advised:

I have taken tires and rims to Costco and asked them to dismount and
mount other tires and they were happy to do it without me having
purchased the tires from them.

One time I gave the guy at the counter a case of St. Pauli Girl beer
and they did it all for free......


Don't get me wrong. I love Costco. In fact, I'm gonna take the old tires to
them for $1 plus ten cents tax where they will dispose of them for me.

If I took them to the local tire shop nearby me, it would cost $7 per tire
plus 70 cents tax (I hate that California taxes everything multiple times
where tires are taxed three times!)

Even if I took them to the local Pep Boys, it would still cost $3.50 plus
sales tax of about 35 cents.

Costco is the best for some things.
However, the one thing Costco sucks at is short lines & product selection.

I have gotten tires at Costco quite a few times, but I just gave up.
It takes far too long.
Never less than an hour wait, and often two or three hours (especially when
they run their annual tire sales).

Plus, Costco has a sucky selection of tires, and they won't mount any tires
you bring to them (I'm surprised your Costco did that because mine won't).


If they are busy- rushed off their feet mounting their customers'
tires - purchased from them - why would they install tires you got
somewhere else, making the wait for their customers even longer?
Stop. Think. Understand. It's BUSINESS.

But they do give you free rotations and lovely green nitrogen air.
But overall, Costco isn't cost effective compared to what I can get online.


Depends on your tolerance - and the hassle you have to go through
when you have problems with your on-line-ordered stuff (and it is
WHEN, not IF - it WILL happen!!!)

But I love Costco for other things (like diapers, similac, roasted chicken,
etc.).

They are great for anything you use a lot of and therfore buy in
quantity.
Did you see they are opening some new locations that go "back to
basics" - back to where they started - as a wholesale supplier for
small businesses???
That's what they were when I first dealt with them. They will have no
custom meat cutting, no tire and auto center, no eye-glasses or
hearing aids or jewelry a,d a whole lot less apparel - but more range
in office equipment and supplies, tools, etc that small businesses
will need - and cater more to the "mom-and-pop" stores and eateries
with their foodstuffs etc..
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On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 23:38:46 -0500, advised:

The machine as supplied is CRAP - but it doesn't take MUCH to make it
half-assed decent. Get a steel plate welden in place of the
fence-post.


Clare,

You are making sense. I agree with you. I only shoved the fence post in
there as an American ingenuity hack, but the real solution would be to weld
in some steel reinforcement, I agree.

To that end, I have a friend who will sell me his old oxy acetylene setup,
so, I will pick that up soon (the tanks are empty so I will need to fill
them up). I'll learn how to weld, which should be a useful skill anyway.

Put proper bolts (a bit bigger because the fit is sloppy) into
properly re-drilled holes, and install washers where necessary to take
out the slop in the linkages..


This is a great idea Clare, and I appreciate it. There was far too much
slop in those linkages, and, I didn't mention it, but the clovis pin bent
like it was made out of putty when I pulled it out.

So, you're totally correct that there is far too much slop, which allows
the pressure to not be straight down, which not only lessens the force on
the bead, but puts force on the tool to the side where it bends the metal.

The HF tool *is* crap - but it can be reinforced.

Cut the big handle in half and drive in
a rod or sched 40 pipe , then weld the thing back together - now it's
strong enough to do the job without turning into a pretzel.


Clare, this is *another* good idea. I need the big red handle but only
because of the special shape of the *ends*. The middle is not needed (so to
speak) and it's so weak that it bends easily.

So, your idea of cutting it in half and then welding it into a long strong
pipe makes a lot of sense. I am picking up an oxyacetylene welding setup
soon, so, I will keep you informed.

Then you'll find the next weak point (hint - the guy who welded the
base legs was onto something)


So far, the legs have been fine, but I didn't mention that there is a crack
in the metal where it is bolted to the concrete, so, again, you are right.

I agree with you that this HF tool is crappy, but, for the price of the
tool plus a bit of welding, it can be made more robust.

When you are done you'll have a useable tire machine that might last
you a while. - still not a GREAT machine - but better than what you
have.


Clare - I totally agree with you.
The HF tool is crappy but it can be shored up where it is weak.
Then it will work for most car tires.
Which is good enough since it is only going to be used once a year anyway.

If you don't, your comebacks and (sometimes very) dumb questions make
you look liike an idiot.


I am never afraid to ask a question.
If I wanted to, I could write up a tutoral that *looks* like I knew
everything ahead of time - but I write things as they happen.

I'm not afraid of looking dumb because I am intelligent (very) so I don't
worry like most people do about looking dumb.

I often ask simple questions.
I even ask for directions.

Don't go out of your way to make enemies of the
guys who can help you understand what you don't know....


This is a fair enough piece of advice.
Thanks for your help and advice for how to shore up the crappy harbor
freight manual tire changer.


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On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 06:35:14 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 20:11:45 -0500, advised:

I buy my tires from a reputable local dealer who gets to make the
markup on the tires, and charges me $15 canadian to install and
balance them.


I think we got a far better deal than you do, because we *thought* about
the problem set ahead of time, so as to maximize what our money buys.


You don't have a CLUE how I buy my tires or what "thought" goes into
them - and I most certainly would NOT buy tires based primarily on
price.

For example, we chose the tires for their $68 price, and for their 460
traction, A treadwear, and A temperature ratings, based on the OEM specs
from Toyota of a 102S P225/75R15 tire for the OEM wheels.

Normally we use Tire Rack but
https://simpletire.com/ gave them to us for
free shipping (which saved $16 per tire right off the bat). It did take
about 10 days (including the weekend) so that was one drawback, but in
general, a few days extra time isn't all that critical when deciding to
replace a set of tires.

So, the total cost for 4 460/A/A tires was, literally, $68 per tire.

I'm not a cheap-ass who believes he can always get a better deal
on-line. I give my business to local businesses - owned by my
neighbours, who employ my neighbours and pay local taxes in my
community..


Again, you are filled to the brim with cliches, but you're welcome to them.
This is a *technical* question, not a philosophical one.
You can wax philosophically on alt.philosophy or alt.economic.theory.


You are being a prick again - it is not becoming.

That goes for tires, appliances, and just about everything
else I buy. If it is available locally, I buy locally. I'm not a rich
man - but I make my living here, and I believe my nieghbours should be
able to make their living here too. That means sometimes I pay a few
dollars more than buying from out of the area - but on the whole I
believe I'm getting as good value for my money locally as I would getr
anywhere.


You probably should be waxing on alt.philosophy for this post.

As far as getting your money back, I truly don't believe you will
ever make your money back on your DIY tire changing and alignment
schemes - because you WILL screw up more than you save. Virtually
guaranteed. You have proven you don't understand what is involved.


Heh heh heh heh ... you make me laugh.

You're actually *scared* of people like me.
Because I can do things that you wouldn't dare do yourself.


You snot-nosed little punk - You have not listened to a word I've
said. I thought for a few minutes I may have misjudgesd you -to
harshly. I take it back.

I may start out ignorant, but I end up knowing far more than you ever will.
That's not because I'm smarter than you are; I'm just far more willing to
learn than you are.


YOu are NOT willing to learn - and I doubt your level of automotive
knowledge and experience will EVER approach that of any of they guys
on this list - or particularly guys like myself who have done this
professionally - for a living, for longer than you have been alive.

And, I'm certainly far more willing to give back since I know that the
power of Usenet is not only being able to ask experts questions, but to
also give back so that the next person stands on our shoulders.


Which I, and others, have been TRYING to do for you for several
weeks. You appear to be unteachable and unhelpable - or at least a
total ingrate.

Here's an example of classic Usenet giving back to the team:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!or...o/Xn6hZL2-CAAJ


And EVEYTHING you put into that very fine piece is information you
WERE given on this newsgroup.

I'm surprised you actually assimilated enough to figure out how to put
it all together and get the job done. You are definitely not making
yourself any friends - - -

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On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 13:24:39 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 06:35:13 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Dec 2016 23:38:36 +0000, Stormin' Norman advised:

I have taken tires and rims to Costco and asked them to dismount and
mount other tires and they were happy to do it without me having
purchased the tires from them.

One time I gave the guy at the counter a case of St. Pauli Girl beer
and they did it all for free......


Don't get me wrong. I love Costco. In fact, I'm gonna take the old tires to
them for $1 plus ten cents tax where they will dispose of them for me.

If I took them to the local tire shop nearby me, it would cost $7 per tire
plus 70 cents tax (I hate that California taxes everything multiple times
where tires are taxed three times!)

Even if I took them to the local Pep Boys, it would still cost $3.50 plus
sales tax of about 35 cents.

Costco is the best for some things.
However, the one thing Costco sucks at is short lines & product selection.

I have gotten tires at Costco quite a few times, but I just gave up.
It takes far too long.
Never less than an hour wait, and often two or three hours (especially when
they run their annual tire sales).

Plus, Costco has a sucky selection of tires, and they won't mount any tires
you bring to them (I'm surprised your Costco did that because mine won't).

But they do give you free rotations and lovely green nitrogen air.
But overall, Costco isn't cost effective compared to what I can get online.

But I love Costco for other things (like diapers, similac, roasted chicken,
etc.).


Frank, I am not trying to sell you on Costco. I simply related my
personal experience. I also have excellent luck with Discount Tire,
in this part of the country they are a giant in the tire retailing
business and will beat any price you bring them, even the online
sellers.

If they don't end up kicking him out on his ass first - it appears
dealing online means he doesn't need to deal with anyone face to face
- he can get yappy without getting his face slapped.


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On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 14:47:30 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 13:24:39 +0000, Stormin' Norman advised:

Frank, I am not trying to sell you on Costco. I simply related my
personal experience. I also have excellent luck with Discount Tire,
in this part of the country they are a giant in the tire retailing
business and will beat any price you bring them, even the online
sellers.


I understand, and appreciate your recommendation.
I used to do all the things everyone else does, so I'm familiar with every
way to buy tires (if I skipped a method, let me know).

1. When I was a kid in college, I bought tires at junk yards right off of
junked cars, but I stopped doing that when my five-dollar tires wobbled
while driving. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out what the vibration
was, because the tires looked fine. People would point to my tires as they
drove by, when one day, a guy followed me off the highway and told me my
tires were flexing like a balloon. Replacing those junk-yard tires solved
my vibration problem; but it could have been (much) worse.

2. Swearing off junk-yard tires, I would then buy tires on sale at Sears.
They sold them mostly by warranty (of all things). So I would buy the tires
based on warranty as I recall (although this was in the day of bias ply so
I don't remember all the details). I do remember looking at a wall of
mounted tires at sears and trying to figure out what was the best tire
(which was basically impossible to do that way - but I didn't realize it at
the time).

3. Over the years, I learned about TireRack from the Motor Trend and Car
and Driver car magazine advertisements (there were two main companies that
always advertised with a full page of teeny tiny print that I could
actually read without glasses in those days before the Internet). It was
still impossible to select among tires, but at least the price was a *lot*
lower than it was at Sears. Tire Rack would ship to the recommended
installer and the installer would give me the Tire Rack price.

4. At some point, radial tires showed up (which lasted longer than the 25K
miles that bias ply lasted) and UTQG appeared as did Price Club (now
Costco), so at least I could now select tires from the floor-to-ceiling
piles at Costco by the UTQG numbers (and not by a silly warranty figure).

5. Finally, I got used to buying stuff on the Internet, and that was it for
buying anything locally, simply because of the stupendously huge price
difference. Sure, almost everyone will *match* almost everyone else, but
what good is *matching*?

I never understood price matching.
What's the appeal?


Price "matching" is only good if they will BEAT the lowest price

Under most circumstances, they match the same price you can get elsewhere.
Um. So what? That's not any better. And, often it's worse (because of sales
tax and selection considerations.)

And LEGALLY you are REQUIRED to submit the local tax on product you
order in from outside the state if they do not have a business
presence in your state. If they DO have a presence in your state, they
are requireds to charge the tax applicable in your state. Whether this
is enforced or not, I don't know.

The *only* reason, IMHO, to price match, is if there is *something* you get
for free out of the price match. But if all you get is the same tire at the
same price that you would have gotten anyway - what's the benefit of price
matching?


I'd rather give my business to the guy who advertises and sells at the
lowest price than to the guy who advertises and sells at a higher price who
only drops his price when you put a gun to his head.


There will always be someone who will sell at a lower price

Of course, if you get *something* for free from price matching, then it
makes total sense. Many examples can occur, but I'll just flesh out a
typical one which is that, say, you can get tires in 10 days from company X
online, where the total cost (let's say) is $400 for 4 tires, shipped,
taxed, and installed.

If you walk up to a tire shop, and say "will you match this price" and if
they match the *price*, then you're getting something for free because you
don't have to wait the 10 days for shipping.

So, to me, price matching is utterly useless unless you get something for
free out of the deal, other than price.

To me, *price beating* is what I like!
If someone says they will *beat* the Internet price by, say, 10 percent,
that's worth switching.

But just price matching?

Naaah. That's like replacing your favorite toolbox hammer with another
exactly similar hammer. There's no benefit whatsoever to the swap, and the
original hammer deserves a bit more respect.


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On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 04:36:41 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 23:19:45 -0500, advised:

Before you start asking too many questions, stop and think it out
like you finally did with your tire changing.


The tire changing is now very easy.

I did a 60-series passenger-car tire today for a friend who had a flat and
it was so easy I looked like I knew what I was doing. The difference is
that a normal 60 series passenger tire is a piece of cake compared to these
75-series 108T sidewalls on the SUV.

Nonetheless, I have the 75-series SUV tires all figured out now for how to
break the beak so we're pretty much done with this thread for breaking
beads.

Next is figuring out the wheel weights to use (I think I am supposed to use
PZ, PZU, PST, or PSTU styles but I'm double-checking that as I speak.

Alignment comes after that.
http://i.cubeupload.com/WyBNYm.jpg

When you check your
alignment - if what you can check is OK, good. But if what you can
check is NOT OK, I would still STRONGLY recommend you take it to a
GOOD front end shop, or the dealer, to have it checked to be sure
nothing is bent and the caster isn't off.


The problem with the Internet is that everything has to be said, even the
stuff that everyone already knows. Especially when it comes to alignment,
when 99,999 out of 100,000 people are *scared* to do it themselves.

Even if they weren't scared, 95,000 out of 100,000 can't *think* that hard,
because angles and geometries are involved, where some measurements have to
be converted from, say, degrees to inches (or vice versa).

So what we end up in *any* alignment thread, is 95% of the people spouting
utterly useless warnings that everyone already knows and only 5% of the
people helping out on the questions.

You may be in that 5% but you don't need to tell me the stuff that everyone
knows. I only need to know *how* to do it.


No, respectfully - you need to know WHAT you are doing and WHY before
the HOW makes any sense.

For the Toyota, the only things that can be adjusted are front caster,
camber, and toe, where caster & camber are adjusted together and toe is
adjusted separately and last.

You still have not said what Toyota SUV- 4runner, Higlander, FJ
Cruiser, older land cruiser, Rav4, Sequoia, or Venza???
Nothing else is adjustable and there is absolutely no indication anywhere
that anything is out of alignment, so it's more of a doublecheck than
anything else.

Caster can be calculated from camber and camber can be measured directly,
as can toe, so, that's the very simple plan of attack.


The formula is: Caster (deg) = (180 / 3.1415) * [(camber1 - camber2) /
(turnangle1 - turnangle2)]

Basically simplified to 57.3X(camber change/degrees of turn)

Turn the wheel in45 degrees. Measure camber. Turn out 45 degrees,
read camber.. Subtract camber 1 from camber 2 - say the difference is
5 degrees.. 5 devided by 90 = .055, times57.3= 3.18 degrees of caster.

Without slip plates side loading can affect the camber measurements
somewhat which also affects the caster calculation.

So yes, theoretically you CAN measure/calculate caster - but again
accuracy is going to be crucial. Good enough to see if you are close -
not accurate or repeatable enough, in most cases, to make an accurate
fine adjustment. However, the Toyota truck-based SUV front ends are
stout enough that unless you have really bashed it about or fooled
withit, nothing is going to change unless something wears out -----
The turn-angle is critical to the calculation


The actual charts for Toyota SUVs are complex but I'm working on them.
http://i.cubeupload.com/WyBNYm.jpg


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On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 04:42:21 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 22:21:15 -0500, advised:

Oh no - after what I just said, here we go again!!!!
A damned wheel weight pliers, of coarse!!!
Google "wheel weight pliers"


Turns out, after some research and talking to the pros, there's really no
need for those wheel-weight pliers just as there is absolutely no need for
any special valve removal or insertion tools.

Still, some tools are just nice to have even if they're not necessary.

I already bought the valve-puller tool, for example, mainly because I
wanted to feel for myself how much easier it made an already easy task of
removing and inserting the valves.
http://i.cubeupload.com/BurSRM.jpg

I'll probably do the same experiment for the wheel weight puller tool:
http://i.cubeupload.com/pkMgfr.jpg

You can use a sledge hammer or an axe if you like to put them on, and
you can beat them off with a chisel, but the proper tool as always it
much easier . And you asked "what tool do you use to remove the
weights. I, and most mechanics, use a weight pliers - so I answered
your question - didn't I???
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On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 05:03:04 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Dec 2016 23:38:46 -0500, advised:

The machine as supplied is CRAP - but it doesn't take MUCH to make it
half-assed decent. Get a steel plate welden in place of the
fence-post.


Clare,

You are making sense. I agree with you. I only shoved the fence post in
there as an American ingenuity hack, but the real solution would be to weld
in some steel reinforcement, I agree.


Actually the REAL solution would be to make a tubular one out of 2
inch square tube - but welding in a plate will do the job

To that end, I have a friend who will sell me his old oxy acetylene setup,
so, I will pick that up soon (the tanks are empty so I will need to fill
them up). I'll learn how to weld, which should be a useful skill anyway.


Welding plate like that with an axy-acetylene welder CAN be done, but
it's not a job for beginners. If my only tool was the gas welder, I'd
braze that part - not weld.

Put proper bolts (a bit bigger because the fit is sloppy) into
properly re-drilled holes, and install washers where necessary to take
out the slop in the linkages..


This is a great idea Clare, and I appreciate it. There was far too much
slop in those linkages, and, I didn't mention it, but the clovis pin bent
like it was made out of putty when I pulled it out.


By the way - it's a CLEVIS pin.

So, you're totally correct that there is far too much slop, which allows
the pressure to not be straight down, which not only lessens the force on
the bead, but puts force on the tool to the side where it bends the metal.


The extra slop puts the bolt into bemding stress instead of just shear
-

The HF tool *is* crap - but it can be reinforced.

Cut the big handle in half and drive in
a rod or sched 40 pipe , then weld the thing back together - now it's
strong enough to do the job without turning into a pretzel.


Clare, this is *another* good idea. I need the big red handle but only
because of the special shape of the *ends*. The middle is not needed (so to
speak) and it's so weak that it bends easily.

So, your idea of cutting it in half and then welding it into a long strong
pipe makes a lot of sense. I am picking up an oxyacetylene welding setup
soon, so, I will keep you informed.


Again, I'd stick weld that job - or if all I had was the torch, I'd
braze it - and drill a few small holes and plug braze it too.

Then you'll find the next weak point (hint - the guy who welded the
base legs was onto something)


So far, the legs have been fine, but I didn't mention that there is a crack
in the metal where it is bolted to the concrete, so, again, you are right.

I agree with you that this HF tool is crappy, but, for the price of the
tool plus a bit of welding, it can be made more robust.

When you are done you'll have a useable tire machine that might last
you a while. - still not a GREAT machine - but better than what you
have.


Clare - I totally agree with you.
The HF tool is crappy but it can be shored up where it is weak.
Then it will work for most car tires.
Which is good enough since it is only going to be used once a year anyway.

If you don't, your comebacks and (sometimes very) dumb questions make
you look liike an idiot.


I am never afraid to ask a question.
If I wanted to, I could write up a tutoral that *looks* like I knew
everything ahead of time - but I write things as they happen.

I'm not afraid of looking dumb because I am intelligent (very) so I don't
worry like most people do about looking dumb.

I often ask simple questions.
I even ask for directions.

Don't go out of your way to make enemies of the
guys who can help you understand what you don't know....


This is a fair enough piece of advice.
Thanks for your help and advice for how to shore up the crappy harbor
freight manual tire changer.


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On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 01:06:53 -0500, advised:

No, respectfully - you need to know WHAT you are doing and WHY before
the HOW makes any sense.


What I mean is that 99 out of 100 people will tell you why *they* would NOT
do their own tire changes, balance, and alignment.

There's *nothing* they can teach me since I already know everything they
could possibly say (almost).

There are TONS of reasons *not* to do anything:
- why not to go to the moon
- why not to go to North Korea
- why not to sail around the world
etc.

For anything that anyone wants to to, there will be 99 out of 100 people
telling them why *they* would not do it.

But that's not helpful when someone tries to do it.

If I was trying to go to the moon, it's not helpful to tell me that there's
no air on the moon. Or that the moon is far away.

Do you get my point?

a. If I want to change tires, what's helpful is advice on how to change
tires using whatever tools I have at hand

b. If I want to balance tires, what's helpful is advice on how to balance
them, using whatever is at hand and whatever can be bought easily

c. If I want to do my alignment at home, what's helpful is advice on how to
do it.

What's not helpful are jokes and statements that I'm cheap or a litany of
reasons why I should not do it (because I already know all those reasons
because those reasons are why 99 out of 100 people don't do it themselves
so any fool can come up with them).

You still have not said what Toyota SUV- 4runner, Higlander, FJ
Cruiser, older land cruiser, Rav4, Sequoia, or Venza???


I don't think anyone asked, or, if they did, I haven't seen it yet.
It's a 4Runner. Pretty simple. It has 4 cams for caster and camber in the
front (nothing in the rear).

It has tie rod ends for the toe.

That's it.


The formula is: Caster (deg) = (180 / 3.1415) * [(camber1 - camber2) /
(turnangle1 - turnangle2)]


I was going to get some turntables (I think) so that I can do the 20 degree
(10 to each side) turn angles. That was how I was gonna calculate caster.

Basically simplified to 57.3X(camber change/degrees of turn)

Turn the wheel in45 degrees. Measure camber. Turn out 45 degrees,
read camber.. Subtract camber 1 from camber 2 - say the difference is
5 degrees.. 5 devided by 90 = .055, times57.3= 3.18 degrees of caster.


This sounds like you know what you're doing because I'm on the Toyota
forums and they suggested something similar. Right now the alignment is
just in the planning stage, since the tires and balancing comes first.

Without slip plates side loading can affect the camber measurements
somewhat which also affects the caster calculation.


I think slip plates are in my future.

So yes, theoretically you CAN measure/calculate caster - but again
accuracy is going to be crucial. Good enough to see if you are close -
not accurate or repeatable enough, in most cases, to make an accurate
fine adjustment.


The spec on the 4Runner is pretty close to 0 camber anyway, and the toe is
really, effectively, 1/16th for each wheel to center line. I forget what
the caster is (I can look it up easily but I'm not near my books) but I'm
not worried about it just yet.

Right now I'm working on the wheels, and I'm reading all the catalogs for
wheel weights from the major manufacturers.

Here is the wheel weight catalog for Plombco, for example:
http://www.completelube.com/AppGuide...Guide_2015.pdf


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Default Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?

On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 00:12:26 -0500, advised:

You don't have a CLUE how I buy my tires or what "thought" goes into
them - and I most certainly would NOT buy tires based primarily on
price.


Buying tires is both easy and hard, depending on what criteria you use.

If you read the reviews, you'll go nuts, because they're extremely
inconsistent, and most are from buttmeters which haven't been calibrated
and all suffer from the placebo effect. So reviews are absolutely useless
because only 1 in 100 will be accurate.

There's not much else to go by except UTQG and we all know how government
standards are. But as flawed as it is, it's the best there is.

So I buy tires based on only three things:
1. Fitment (e.g., a 108T is generally better than a 102S)
2. UTQG (never less than Traction A and Temperature A for example)
3. Price (lower is better)

Lotsa people buy tires based on superstition and warranty and brand name,
which they're welcome to do. Some even buy them based on the sidewall
stripe. All the power to them. Not me.

You are being a prick again - it is not becoming.


I apologize.
You have to realize though, that I'm sick and tired of tired old cliches.
They're fun, like poetry is fun; but they are nearly meaningless.

For example, all the dumb****s on the planet say 'you get what you pay for'
which is ridiculous. You get whatever it is that you get. How much you pay
for it is meaningless to what it is that you get. It would be the same
thing if you got it for free as if you mortgaged your house for it. Price
is never an indication of quality. Only dumb****s think it is because price
is *easy* to measure whereas quality is a lot harder (sometimes) to
measure.

So, for example, if I have a UTQG tire of 400/A/A and it is, say, $100,
where it's a 102S tire, of a certain size, that's a *better* deal than,
say, a 400/A/B tire which is the same load range and size for, say, $200.

I don't care that one is a brand name, or that it has sidewalls, or that
the warranty is whatever it is, or that they say the tread is quiet or that
they say it wicks away water, etc.

BTW, if I *knew* that the tread was quiet, or that it wicked away water
better, then *that* would be an indicator of quality; but what they *say*
is almost always bull**** so it can't be trusted (but should be taken into
account if it is trusted).

You snot-nosed little punk - You have not listened to a word I've
said. I thought for a few minutes I may have misjudgesd you -to
harshly. I take it back.


I apologize. I said in a previous post that I'm gonna be nicer.

YOu are NOT willing to learn - and I doubt your level of automotive
knowledge and experience will EVER approach that of any of they guys
on this list - or particularly guys like myself who have done this
professionally - for a living, for longer than you have been alive.


Actually, I'm pretty smart. I have very high degrees and I test well (at
least I did when I was in graduate school). But I'm not an automotive
mechanic. I studied the biological sciences. They are a far cry from this
stuff, but the one thing I can handle is data. Lots and lots of data.

The way I learn is by doing experiments and then looking up bits of data.

I'm surprised you actually assimilated enough to figure out how to put
it all together and get the job done. You are definitely not making
yourself any friends - - -


Well, I'm different than most people.
Most people are afraid to admit they made a mistake.
I don't care one bit about admitting I made a mistake.
And I made plenty of mistakes when I changed that tire and the one today.
Mistakes are part of learning.

What I could have done (which many people do) is write up this idealistic
DIY that assumes I didn't make any mistakes (such as bending the
bead-breaking wedge). I could easily have written it all up so that it
looks like I'm a genius.

But I write what happened and I'm not in the least trying to impress
anyone.

I just ask questions and if I don't get answers, I find them out on my own
(if possible). That's all I'm doing here.
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Default Question about breaking the bead using a harbor freight bead breaker?

On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 06:31:22 +0000 (UTC), Frank Baron
wrote:

On Thu, 15 Dec 2016 01:10:11 -0500, advised:

You can use a sledge hammer or an axe if you like to put them on, and
you can beat them off with a chisel, but the proper tool as always it
much easier . And you asked "what tool do you use to remove the
weights. I, and most mechanics, use a weight pliers - so I answered
your question - didn't I???


You are correct and I apologize for changing the rules mid thread.
Yes, I did ask. And I now know what tool they use.

I do like to use good tools, like everyone, and I am not the type normally
to use a hammer for everything, so I will "probably" get the wheel weight
pliers.

I say probably because I may just use the stick-on weights for everything.
I don't know yet. It's also just as likely that I'll use the P-type
crimp-on weights for these steel wheels.

I'm looking at this catalog, for example, and what I "probably" should get
is the following on page 185:
A. Wheel weight pliers and hammer
B. Wheel weight scraper
C. Rim Gauge

http://www.tuffymfg.com/docs/Pg177-1...ngSupplies.pdf

If you are only going to static balance anyway, stock only the
stik-on weights and apply them to the CENTER of the rim. That way you
are not splitting weights and quite possibly making the dynamic
balance worse. It is also the onlr economical way of having the weight
you require for all situations. When "roughing" the balance plsce the
weighy at the point you will be installing it (an inch or two in from
the bead, on most of those rims) - it will take a wee bit more weight
in there, but you won't throw them nearly as easily, being held in
place by rotational force as well as the tape.
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