Help you electronic gurus ...

I have a thermostatically controlled box that turns on a few circuits around
the house at near freezing temperatures. Each curcuit goes to a 110v light
bulb that warms various locations, such as well house, hose spigots, etc..

I would like to put an indicator light, led or something, that will come on
when the 110v (usually 40 watt) bulb burns out on that circuit.

The radio Shack guys have suggested putting a 2nd bulb in series ... THAT
DOESN'T work!

Suggestions, circuit diagrams, will be appreciated!

On 12 Feb 2004, Jeff Klein wrote:

Help you electronic gurus ...
...
I would like to put an indicator light, led or something, that
will come on when the 110v (usually 40 watt) bulb burns out on
that circuit.

Suggestions, circuit diagrams, will be appreciated!

Relays.
Coils operate on 110VAC.
One relay wired in series with each light circuit.
Any cheap Wall Wart power supply to give you some low voltage
DC, you'll use it to power your indicator lights.
Use the N C contacts on the relay as the interupt point for
your indicator light.

Bulb is lit, draws current through relay coil, N C contacts open
up, no indicator light.

Bulb burns out, no current through relay coil, N C contacts go to
normal state, circuit path is completed, lights your indicator.

You're on your own as far as figuring out what to use for
indicators, I would use big honkin' LEDs and make sure you
use a voltage regulator chip or a dividing network to get the
proper supply voltage for them. I'm guessing The Shaq still
sells hobbyist stuff like 8 pin DIP DPDT relays with 110 coils?

--
TP / Network Man __________________________________
If u want the races for free,
somebody has to pay for it. ($1 Earl)

Jeff,

Putting a small 120v bulb in series as an indicator will work but
everything else on the circuit must be in series as well. Just like old
Christmas tree lights, if one bulb fails then none of the other bulbs well
work. If you have the indicator in series and the other bulbs in parallel
then the indicator will remain lit until all of the other bulbs fail.

Dave M.

Jeff Klein wrote:
Help you electronic gurus ...

I have a thermostatically controlled box that turns on a few circuits
around the house at near freezing temperatures. Each curcuit goes to
a 110v light bulb that warms various locations, such as well house,
hose spigots, etc..

I would like to put an indicator light, led or something, that will
come on when the 110v (usually 40 watt) bulb burns out on that
circuit.

The radio Shack guys have suggested putting a 2nd bulb in series ...
THAT DOESN'T work!

Suggestions, circuit diagrams, will be appreciated!

It should work if you run 240 Volts in a circuit with both lamps of the
same wattage. One light at a service panel and the other at the remote
location. When all the lights are the service panel were on, you would know
all the lights were on.


--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

problem w/ running the bulbs in series, is the additional bulb, and voltage
drop, causes both bulbs to run at half strength, hence cooler, defeating the
purpose..


"Jeff Klein" wrote in message
m...
Help you electronic gurus ...

I have a thermostatically controlled box that turns on a few circuits
around
the house at near freezing temperatures. Each curcuit goes to a 110v light
bulb that warms various locations, such as well house, hose spigots, etc..

I would like to put an indicator light, led or something, that will come
on
when the 110v (usually 40 watt) bulb burns out on that circuit.

The radio Shack guys have suggested putting a 2nd bulb in series ... THAT
DOESN'T work!

Suggestions, circuit diagrams, will be appreciated!

The relay solution sounds interesting, but being weak electronically, can
you spell it out in simplier terms, and specifically what kind of relay I
would be looking for .. ?? at the shack??

"I-zheet M'drurz" wrote in message
...
On 12 Feb 2004, Jeff Klein wrote:

Help you electronic gurus ...
...
I would like to put an indicator light, led or something, that
will come on when the 110v (usually 40 watt) bulb burns out on
that circuit.

Suggestions, circuit diagrams, will be appreciated!

Relays.
Coils operate on 110VAC.
One relay wired in series with each light circuit.
Any cheap Wall Wart power supply to give you some low voltage
DC, you'll use it to power your indicator lights.
Use the N C contacts on the relay as the interupt point for
your indicator light.

Bulb is lit, draws current through relay coil, N C contacts open
up, no indicator light.

Bulb burns out, no current through relay coil, N C contacts go to
normal state, circuit path is completed, lights your indicator.

You're on your own as far as figuring out what to use for
indicators, I would use big honkin' LEDs and make sure you
use a voltage regulator chip or a dividing network to get the
proper supply voltage for them. I'm guessing The Shaq still
sells hobbyist stuff like 8 pin DIP DPDT relays with 110 coils?

--
TP / Network Man __________________________________
If u want the races for free,
somebody has to pay for it. ($1 Earl)

I-zheet M'drurz wrote:

On 12 Feb 2004, Jeff Klein wrote:


Help you electronic gurus ...

...

I would like to put an indicator light, led or something, that
will come on when the 110v (usually 40 watt) bulb burns out on
that circuit.


Suggestions, circuit diagrams, will be appreciated!


Relays.
Coils operate on 110VAC.
One relay wired in series with each light circuit.

You gotta learn your elecrics before you start giving advice like that.
You'd need an AC CURRENT relay sized to the lamp bulb current to do what
you suggest, and they're not all that easy to come by cheaply

If you put a 110VAC relay coil in series with a 40 watt light bulb,
almost all the voltage drop will take place across the relay coil and
practically none across the bulb, so the bulb won't light and warm up
the OP's frigid stuff.

You might be able to use a low voltage (say 6VAC) relay, with a resistor
in parallel with it, sized so there's 6 volts across the relay for a
specific wattage bulb.

Gotit?

The rest of what you suggested is OK, but I doubt if Rat Shack ever sold
DIP sized relays with 110 VAC coils.


Any cheap Wall Wart power supply to give you some low voltage
DC, you'll use it to power your indicator lights.
Use the N C contacts on the relay as the interupt point for
your indicator light.

Bulb is lit, draws current through relay coil, N C contacts open
up, no indicator light.

Bulb burns out, no current through relay coil, N C contacts go to
normal state, circuit path is completed, lights your indicator.

You're on your own as far as figuring out what to use for
indicators, I would use big honkin' LEDs and make sure you
use a voltage regulator chip or a dividing network to get the
proper supply voltage for them. I'm guessing The Shaq still
sells hobbyist stuff like 8 pin DIP DPDT relays with 110 coils?


--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"If you can smile when things are going wrong, you've thought of someone
to blame it on."

so, can you suggest something for me that WILL work...



"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...


I-zheet M'drurz wrote:

On 12 Feb 2004, Jeff Klein wrote:


Help you electronic gurus ...

...

I would like to put an indicator light, led or something, that
will come on when the 110v (usually 40 watt) bulb burns out on
that circuit.


Suggestions, circuit diagrams, will be appreciated!


Relays.
Coils operate on 110VAC.
One relay wired in series with each light circuit.

You gotta learn your elecrics before you start giving advice like that.
You'd need an AC CURRENT relay sized to the lamp bulb current to do what
you suggest, and they're not all that easy to come by cheaply

If you put a 110VAC relay coil in series with a 40 watt light bulb,
almost all the voltage drop will take place across the relay coil and
practically none across the bulb, so the bulb won't light and warm up
the OP's frigid stuff.

You might be able to use a low voltage (say 6VAC) relay, with a resistor
in parallel with it, sized so there's 6 volts across the relay for a
specific wattage bulb.

Gotit?

The rest of what you suggested is OK, but I doubt if Rat Shack ever sold
DIP sized relays with 110 VAC coils.


Any cheap Wall Wart power supply to give you some low voltage
DC, you'll use it to power your indicator lights.
Use the N C contacts on the relay as the interupt point for
your indicator light.

Bulb is lit, draws current through relay coil, N C contacts open
up, no indicator light.

Bulb burns out, no current through relay coil, N C contacts go to
normal state, circuit path is completed, lights your indicator.

You're on your own as far as figuring out what to use for
indicators, I would use big honkin' LEDs and make sure you
use a voltage regulator chip or a dividing network to get the
proper supply voltage for them. I'm guessing The Shaq still
sells hobbyist stuff like 8 pin DIP DPDT relays with 110 coils?


--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"If you can smile when things are going wrong, you've thought of someone
to blame it on."

On 13 Feb 2004, Jeff Klein wrote:

so, can you suggest something for me that WILL work...

Screw you, ungrateful asshole. You show up here asking for
"circuits" like you actually know what you're talking about, and
all you really want is for somebody to do all of the work for
you. I gave you the basics for 95% of the circuit, and somebody
came along and pointed out a flaw in my plan. That's all well
and good, so I'm a little rusty, I haven't whipped up a black box
from scratch in about 20 years. Do a little reading on relays,
coil voltages, etc, and finish the puzzle.

What's that?

Oh that's right, sorry. You don't have a clue, all you really
want is for somebody to do all of the work for you.

--
TP / Network Man __________________________________
If u want the races for free,
somebody has to pay for it. ($1 Earl)

Jeff Klein wrote:
problem w/ running the bulbs in series, is the additional bulb, and
voltage drop, causes both bulbs to run at half strength, hence
cooler, defeating the purpose..


Unless you double the voltage, and make sure the bulbs are the same
wattage.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math

In article ,
"I-zheet M'drurz" wrote:

On 13 Feb 2004, Jeff Klein wrote:

so, can you suggest something for me that WILL work...

Screw you, ungrateful asshole. You show up here asking for
"circuits" like you actually know what you're talking about, and
all you really want is for somebody to do all of the work for
you. I gave you the basics for 95% of the circuit, and somebody
came along and pointed out a flaw in my plan. That's all well
and good, so I'm a little rusty, I haven't whipped up a black box
from scratch in about 20 years. Do a little reading on relays,
coil voltages, etc, and finish the puzzle.

What's that?

Oh that's right, sorry. You don't have a clue, all you really
want is for somebody to do all of the work for you.

Hey, M'drurz -- how about coming over and smacking around my wife a
little? She's been far too ungrateful lately and needs a good tune-up
from someone of your talent.

Between you and the Jesus dude, I'm trying to figure out who's the
better entertainment bargain around here.

AJS

Jeff Klein wrote:

so, can you suggest something for me that WILL work...





snipped

Awright, so for now, let's forget about relays, wall warts and LED's and
get back to basics here.....

Here's something that could work, and it's probably the lowest parts
count/cost solution, but no warranties on it or guarantees that it'll
satisfy all code requirements. (My advice is worth what you're paying
for it. G)

A 40 watt bulb will draw about 0.35 amps at 115 volts. If you Google
around and look at the specs of various automotive bulbs, you should be
able to find a (preferably) 6 volt or a 12 volt bulb rated to draw just
a bit more than that current. Get one of those bulbs.

If you put the 40 watt and low voltage bulbs in series across 115 vac
the automotive bulb (your "indicator lamp") should light to a little
less than full brilliancy, but only drop the voltage to the 40 watt bulb
by 5 to 10 volts, so the 40 watt bulb will produce close to it's normal
heat output.

A little experimenting should get you there....Unless my approach gets
screwed by the turnon surge of the 40 watt bulb blowing out the
automotive bulb. If that happens, get back over here and I'll give you a
more complex solution guaranteed to work.

Howzatt guys?

Jeff


--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying."

I-zheet M'drurz wrote:

On 13 Feb 2004, Jeff Klein wrote:



so, can you suggest something for me that WILL work...





snipped


Oh that's right, sorry. You don't have a clue, all you really
want is for somebody to do all of the work for you.



Gosh, I hope that someday a doctor doesn't decide to give you the same
kind of response if you or a loved one gets rushed to the hospital in
dire straits.

I thought these kinds of newsgroups were a place where some of us who
know how to do certain things learn how to do other things and in the
process occasionally get a chance to "show off how smart we are" without
having to do in front of coworkers or close friends. G

I'm quite intolerant of stupidity and have been known to suggest
autofornication to more than on stupid person on a newsgroup.

But, I have lots of tolerance for ignorance because none of us can
possibly be "renaissance men" nowadays and know all there is to know
about everything man has learned since he started walking erect.

Jeff (Who finally figured out your pseudonym...It sound like an ad for
Depends.)

--
Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying."

"Jeff Klein" wrote in message om...
problem w/ running the bulbs in series, is the additional bulb, and voltage
drop, causes both bulbs to run at half strength, hence cooler, defeating the
purpose..


"Jeff Klein" wrote in message
m...
Help you electronic gurus ...

I have a thermostatically controlled box that turns on a few circuits
around
the house at near freezing temperatures. Each curcuit goes to a 110v light
bulb that warms various locations, such as well house, hose spigots, etc..

I would like to put an indicator light, led or something, that will come
on
when the 110v (usually 40 watt) bulb burns out on that circuit.

The radio Shack guys have suggested putting a 2nd bulb in series ... THAT
DOESN'T work!

Suggestions, circuit diagrams, will be appreciated!




This is a pretty Rube Goldberg suggestion, but here goes...

If it is normally dark where these bulbs are located, you might be
able to use a light sensor to trigger a light back inside your house.

When the thermostat kicks in, it sends power to the heating bulb. It
could also send power to a light sensor near the bulb. The output of
the light sensor leads to a light bulb conveniently located in your
house where you will notice it. If the heating light bulb is on (
i.e. not burned out ), its light will cause the light sensor to keep
your interior indicator bulb off. If the heating light bulb is off (
i.e. burned out ), there will be no light, so the light sensor will
cause your interior indicator bulb to turn on. Because the light
sensor(s) are initially powered by the same power source as the
heating light bulb, they will not send power to your interior bulbs
unless the thermostat determines that it is cold enough to be sending
power out anyway.

Alternatively, you could get one of those wireless weatherstations ( I
have a Boston Scientific ) with the outdoor sensors. My
weatherstation lets me ( not that I do it ) set an alarm to go off if
the temperature ( or rainfall or windspeed ) goes above or below a
certain value. If your heating light bulbs go out ( or if there is
some malfunction on your circuit - like a power failure ) the alarm
will go off and you can fix the problem ( assuming you are home ).

I'll give it a try ... I never asked for guarentees ... only help, which I
appreciate!

Robert Ringer once wrote about a giant pinsetter in the sky... go bowling,
see those pins flying every which way... well the pinsetter comes down and
no matter where they went, they still get set where they are supposed to
go..

In other words, jerks eventually get set down just where they are supposed
to go..

Thanks

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...
Jeff Klein wrote:

so, can you suggest something for me that WILL work...





snipped

Awright, so for now, let's forget about relays, wall warts and LED's and
get back to basics here.....

Here's something that could work, and it's probably the lowest parts
count/cost solution, but no warranties on it or guarantees that it'll
satisfy all code requirements. (My advice is worth what you're paying
for it. G)

A 40 watt bulb will draw about 0.35 amps at 115 volts. If you Google
around and look at the specs of various automotive bulbs, you should be
able to find a (preferably) 6 volt or a 12 volt bulb rated to draw just
a bit more than that current. Get one of those bulbs.

If you put the 40 watt and low voltage bulbs in series across 115 vac
the automotive bulb (your "indicator lamp") should light to a little
less than full brilliancy, but only drop the voltage to the 40 watt bulb
by 5 to 10 volts, so the 40 watt bulb will produce close to it's normal
heat output.

A little experimenting should get you there....Unless my approach gets
screwed by the turnon surge of the 40 watt bulb blowing out the
automotive bulb. If that happens, get back over here and I'll give you a
more complex solution guaranteed to work.

Howzatt guys?

Jeff


--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying."

On 13 Feb 2004, Jeff Wisnia wrote:
I-zheet M'drurz wrote:
On 13 Feb 2004, Jeff Klein wrote:

so, can you suggest something for me that WILL work...

snipped

Oh that's right, sorry. You don't have a clue, all you
really want is for somebody to do all of the work for you.

Fresh from The Department of Flawed Analogies, to your newsreader:

Gosh, I hope that someday a doctor doesn't decide to give you
the same kind of response if you or a loved one gets rushed to
the hospital in dire straits.

Nice try, but no. I wouldn't walk up to the doctor and say I
intended to treat her myself (indicating that I had a basic idea
of how to proceed) and then ask him for a roadmap and some clues.

snip

Jeff (Who finally figured out your pseudonym...It sound like an
ad for Depends.)

It's called a joke, I doubt if it had much effect on you!

--
TP / Network Man __________________________________
If u want the races for free,
somebody has to pay for it. ($1 Earl)

According to Joseph Meehan :
Jeff Klein wrote:
problem w/ running the bulbs in series, is the additional bulb, and
voltage drop, causes both bulbs to run at half strength, hence
cooler, defeating the purpose..

Unless you double the voltage, and make sure the bulbs are the same
wattage.

That's a trifle, um, unnecessary. Expending double the power, extra breaker,
somewhat code-violationish etc.

The other posting about using 6V lights in series current-matched to the
120V light is a better one. The main trick is getting 6V sockets that don't
require you to attach either side to a chassis.

Another idea is to use a much higher wattage 120V bulb as an indicator in series
on 120V. Ie: a 40W as the "heater", and 100W as the indicator. The thing
will draw something less than 40W, which should be enough to get the 100W
to glow somewhat. Pick a clear bulb to see better. Experiment...

Me? I'd probably drill holes in the enclosures, and if I felt like it,
glue some clear plastic over the holes. If the heater bulb is working,
you'll see the glow - like a pilot light.

A little more elegant would be to pick a series resistor that, when the "heater"
bulb was at full power, corresponded to about a 2-3 volt drop. Ie, on a 100W
bulb, a 5W 2 or 3 ohm resister. In parallel with the resistor, install
a LED and, appropriately sized resistor in series (a few hundred ohms I think).
Polarity of LED doesn't matter.

Heater "on", LED lit. Heater "off", LED off.

Couple bucks per "heater".
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

This is probably the most expensive solution.
How about one of these:
http://www.bitsltd.net/smartstrip/landing1/landing.htm A smart power strip.
It consists of a sense resistor controling a relay. Plug your heater lamp
into the control outlet and your indicator lamp into one of the switched
outlets.

I have 3 of them for use on various computer and audio equipment. Bought two
from Radio shack (who no longer sells them) and 1 from cyberguys.com (who
also no longer sells them) (big help I am).


"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
...
According to Joseph Meehan :
Jeff Klein wrote:
problem w/ running the bulbs in series, is the additional bulb, and
voltage drop, causes both bulbs to run at half strength, hence
cooler, defeating the purpose..

Unless you double the voltage, and make sure the bulbs are the same
wattage.

That's a trifle, um, unnecessary. Expending double the power, extra
breaker,
somewhat code-violationish etc.

The other posting about using 6V lights in series current-matched to the
120V light is a better one. The main trick is getting 6V sockets that
don't
require you to attach either side to a chassis.

Another idea is to use a much higher wattage 120V bulb as an indicator in
series
on 120V. Ie: a 40W as the "heater", and 100W as the indicator. The thing
will draw something less than 40W, which should be enough to get the 100W
to glow somewhat. Pick a clear bulb to see better. Experiment...

Me? I'd probably drill holes in the enclosures, and if I felt like it,
glue some clear plastic over the holes. If the heater bulb is working,
you'll see the glow - like a pilot light.

A little more elegant would be to pick a series resistor that, when the
"heater"
bulb was at full power, corresponded to about a 2-3 volt drop. Ie, on a
100W
bulb, a 5W 2 or 3 ohm resister. In parallel with the resistor, install
a LED and, appropriately sized resistor in series (a few hundred ohms I
think).
Polarity of LED doesn't matter.

Heater "on", LED lit. Heater "off", LED off.

Couple bucks per "heater".
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

"Jeff Klein" wrote in message
m...
Help you electronic gurus ...

1) The type of wall switches with a neon lamp which glows when the switch
is OFF (handy for finding the switch at night) can also be used to "test" to
see if there is a load on the other end.

2) It is downright silly to use a delicate and limited life lamp for an
HEATER. Do it right the first time and BUY and install "pump house
heaters" which automatically come on when the temperature gets below 40F or
so.

The best way of protecting pipes is with the special heat tape that turns
itself off as it gets warm.

But LAMPS?

You have to be kidding!

According to jmagerl :
This is probably the most expensive solution.
How about one of these:
http://www.bitsltd.net/smartstrip/landing1/landing.htm A smart power strip.
It consists of a sense resistor controling a relay. Plug your heater lamp
into the control outlet and your indicator lamp into one of the switched
outlets.

About $30 per monitored "heater".

I have 3 of them for use on various computer and audio equipment. Bought two
from Radio shack (who no longer sells them) and 1 from cyberguys.com (who
also no longer sells them) (big help I am).

Heh.

I know of an even more elegant one:

http://www.ecogate.com

Only a couple hundred bucks (you don't need to spend the $520 list for
the "set", because you don't need the electronic blast gates).

At least you only need one of these for any number of "heaters". But
it won't tell you which one is broke.

I plan on building one of these myself with a toroid transformer canabalized
out of a blown PC power supply.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

John Gilmer wrote:

"Jeff Klein" wrote in message
m...

Help you electronic gurus ...


1) The type of wall switches with a neon lamp which glows when the switch
is OFF (handy for finding the switch at night) can also be used to "test" to
see if there is a load on the other end.

2) It is downright silly to use a delicate and limited life lamp for an
HEATER. Do it right the first time and BUY and install "pump house
heaters" which automatically come on when the temperature gets below 40F or
so.

The best way of protecting pipes is with the special heat tape that turns
itself off as it gets warm.

But LAMPS?

You have to be kidding!



Lamps have been used for decades to mark and heat insulated fire
extinguisher cabinets mounted outdoors. The marker light is mounted in
the bottom of the cabinet and is daylight and thermostatically
controlled. I think it is a simple and elegant solution to the problem
of keeping the extinguisher useable and marking it's location. If it
works I see nothing wrong with it.
--
Tom H

John Gilmer wrote:
"Jeff Klein" wrote in message
m...

Help you electronic gurus ...


1) The type of wall switches with a neon lamp which glows when the switch
is OFF (handy for finding the switch at night) can also be used to "test" to
see if there is a load on the other end.

Not if there's much cable conected between the switch and the lamp John.

The capacitance between the black wire and the neutral (and ground)
wires will let enough current flow to light the neon lamp.

It's the same effect which causes neophytes using digital meters to
report that there's voltage on wires which should be considered "dead".
There *is* a voltage there, or the meter wouldn't read anything, but
it's being fed through such a high impedance (capacitive reactance) that
no useful load can be powered from it. (Except maybe that neon bulb
we're talking about here.}

Try it yourself!

Jeff



snipped
--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"If you can smile when things are going wrong, you've thought of someone
to blame it on."

Tom Horne wrote:
John Gilmer wrote:


snip



Lamps have been used for decades to mark and heat insulated fire
extinguisher cabinets mounted outdoors. The marker light is mounted in
the bottom of the cabinet and is daylight and thermostatically
controlled. I think it is a simple and elegant solution to the problem
of keeping the extinguisher useable and marking it's location. If it
works I see nothing wrong with it.
--
Tom H



I think I see John's point there, light bulbs *do* tend to burn out more
frequently than low temperature heaters do, and *regular* bulbs don't
stand up to vibration or frequent switching on too well either.

But it's the OP's nickel and problem, and if he's willing to monitor the
indicators faithfully, so who are we to tell him what to use?

I do hope my seriesed 6 volt bulb idea proves workable though, it seems
elegantly simple.

************************************************** ****************

Do you happen to know if those outdoor fire extinguisher cabinets use
multiple bulbs for redundancy?

I bet the newer ones are going to use resistance heaters and LED lamps,
following the way the traffic light industry has shifted.

Jeff
--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"If you can smile when things are going wrong, you've thought of someone
to blame it on."

"Jeff Klein" wrote in message
m...
Help you electronic gurus ...

I have a thermostatically controlled box that turns on a few circuits
around
the house at near freezing temperatures. Each curcuit goes to a 110v light
bulb that warms various locations, such as well house, hose spigots, etc..

I would like to put an indicator light, led or something, that will come
on
when the 110v (usually 40 watt) bulb burns out on that circuit.

The radio Shack guys have suggested putting a 2nd bulb in series ... THAT
DOESN'T work!

Suggestions, circuit diagrams, will be appreciated!

How about something really simple, fibre optic light pipe. Place one end
near the lamp you want to monitor; cap the other end of the fiber with a
lens. When the light is on the lens will glow.

A Google search will point to lots of resources.

"I-zheet M'drurz" wrote in message
...
On 13 Feb 2004, Jeff Klein wrote:

so, can you suggest something for me that WILL work...

Screw you, ungrateful asshole. You show up here asking for
"circuits" like you actually know what you're talking about, and
all you really want is for somebody to do all of the work for
you. I gave you the basics for 95% of the circuit, and somebody
came along and pointed out a flaw in my plan. That's all well
and good, so I'm a little rusty, I haven't whipped up a black box
from scratch in about 20 years. Do a little reading on relays,
coil voltages, etc, and finish the puzzle.

What's that?

Oh that's right, sorry. You don't have a clue, all you really
want is for somebody to do all of the work for you.



Damn Tom....you really REALLY ought to repeat that in the other..LOL...
Son of a Gun..you sound like Paul...


--
TP / Network Man __________________________________
If u want the races for free,
somebody has to pay for it. ($1 Earl)

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
snip
Do you happen to know if those outdoor fire extinguisher cabinets use
multiple bulbs for redundancy?

I bet the newer ones are going to use resistance heaters and LED lamps,
following the way the traffic light industry has shifted.

Jeff

The ones I serviced when I was doing fire equipment work had two bulbs
and the tamper alarm in the top of the cabinet would emit short alarm
bursts if the interior of the cabinet got too cold, i.e. 40° Fahrenheit.
--
Tom H

Tom Horne wrote:

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
snip

Do you happen to know if those outdoor fire extinguisher cabinets use
multiple bulbs for redundancy?

I bet the newer ones are going to use resistance heaters and LED
lamps, following the way the traffic light industry has shifted.

Jeff


The ones I serviced when I was doing fire equipment work had two bulbs
and the tamper alarm in the top of the cabinet would emit short alarm
bursts if the interior of the cabinet got too cold, i.e. 40° Fahrenheit.
--
Tom H



I thought outdoor fire extinguishers were filled with calcium chloride
solution instead of water in the winter. That stuff generally doesn't freeze.

Bob

zxcvbob wrote:
Tom Horne wrote:

Jeff Wisnia wrote:
snip

Do you happen to know if those outdoor fire extinguisher cabinets use
multiple bulbs for redundancy?

I bet the newer ones are going to use resistance heaters and LED
lamps, following the way the traffic light industry has shifted.

Jeff



The ones I serviced when I was doing fire equipment work had two bulbs
and the tamper alarm in the top of the cabinet would emit short alarm
bursts if the interior of the cabinet got too cold, i.e. 40° Fahrenheit.
--
Tom H



I thought outdoor fire extinguishers were filled with calcium chloride
solution instead of water in the winter. That stuff generally doesn't
freeze.

Bob

Foam extinguishers of the now obsolete chemical variety had to be
protected from freezing and they were the only appropriate protection
then available for some hazards. I have not heard of an antifreeze
solution that can be used with modern foam extinguishers either. In
some environments it is necessary to keep the extinguisher shell warm
enough to avoid super cooled metal contact injuries to users. An
example of such an environment is a cold storage warehouse.
--
Tom H

Tom Horne wrote:

snipped

In
some environments it is necessary to keep the extinguisher shell warm
enough to avoid super cooled metal contact injuries to users. An
example of such an environment is a cold storage warehouse.
--
Tom H


I guess, but it seems like it's wasting to have to dump heat into an
environment like that. If it wuz my dollars, I'd try and find a
material with low thermal conductivity that they could cover the shell
with to avoid that problem.

Jeff
--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"If you can smile when things are going wrong, you've thought of someone
to blame it on."

Jeff Wisnia wrote:


Tom Horne wrote:

snipped
In some environments it is necessary to keep the extinguisher shell warm
enough to avoid super cooled metal contact injuries to users. An
example of such an environment is a cold storage warehouse.
--
Tom H


I guess, but it seems like it's wasting to have to dump heat into an
environment like that. If it wuz my dollars, I'd try and find a material
with low thermal conductivity that they could cover the shell with to
avoid that problem.

Jeff

Jeff
You cannot apply any material directly to an extinguisher without
voiding it's laboratory listing. Once it leaves the factory you cannot
modify it in any way. That is why an insulated and heated cabinet makes
sense in that application. There being no need for a marker light in a
lighted warehouse environment you would probably use a different heating
method for the cabinet than the one I was talking about earlier were the
waste heat from the marker light is used to keep the extinguisher
cabinet interior above freezing.
--
Tom H

Tom Horne wrote:

Jeff Wisnia wrote:



Tom Horne wrote:

snipped

In some environments it is necessary to keep the extinguisher shell
warm enough to avoid super cooled metal contact injuries to users.
An example of such an environment is a cold storage warehouse.
--
Tom H


I guess, but it seems like it's wasting to have to dump heat into an
environment like that. If it wuz my dollars, I'd try and find a
material with low thermal conductivity that they could cover the shell
with to avoid that problem.

Jeff


Jeff
You cannot apply any material directly to an extinguisher without
voiding it's laboratory listing. Once it leaves the factory you cannot
modify it in any way. That is why an insulated and heated cabinet makes
sense in that application. There being no need for a marker light in a
lighted warehouse environment you would probably use a different heating
method for the cabinet than the one I was talking about earlier were the
waste heat from the marker light is used to keep the extinguisher
cabinet interior above freezing.
--
Tom H


You learned me sumpin' there Tom!

So much for my parsimonious idea.

The Devil is always in the details, isn't he?

Jeff
--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"If you can smile when things are going wrong, you've thought of someone
to blame it on."