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  #1   Report Post  
Bill
 
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Default Question on splitting cable signals....

My cable TV reception is "OK" but I am thinking of ways to reduce signal
loss and improve the picture if possible.

- I have about 6 TV's in my house.... 3 on the main living floor, and 3 in
the upper bedrooms.
- My cable comes in the basement, and is split 4 ways, with one going to the
upstairs.
- The upstairs lead is split again 3 ways for the bedrooms.

In theory, would it be better to split the incoming siganl 6 ways in the
basement, and run 3 independant cables to each bedroom?

What about in practice? Would 1 less slpit in the chain improve things?


  #2   Report Post  
EvoDawg
 
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Default Question on splitting cable signals....

Bill wrote:

My cable TV reception is "OK" but I am thinking of ways to reduce signal
loss and improve the picture if possible.

- I have about 6 TV's in my house.... 3 on the main living floor, and 3 in
the upper bedrooms.
- My cable comes in the basement, and is split 4 ways, with one going to
the upstairs.
- The upstairs lead is split again 3 ways for the bedrooms.

In theory, would it be better to split the incoming siganl 6 ways in the
basement, and run 3 independant cables to each bedroom?

What about in practice? Would 1 less slpit in the chain improve things?


Most splitters have db loss printed right on them. Hook the shortest run to
the hightest loss on the splitter. You might think about getting an amp to
jack up the dB's first. Just don't put the amp where there is little or no
signal or you will just be amplifying noise. Get a good amp, cheap ones
just make it worse. Its always best to have home runs to each TV but thats
not always feasible. Also make sure if your splitting a signal your not
splitting it on the high db loss side of the splitter.

Good Luck,
Rich
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
  #3   Report Post  
Sasal Suzi
 
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Default splitting cable signals....Speaking of AMPs



Just don't put the amp where there is little or no
signal or you


Speaking of amps .....
A couple of years ago we had 5 TV's and an amp, gemini I think.
We were eating dinner when we heard a loud beep, beep, beep
coming from outside. There was a Comcast cable truck outside.
The worker rang our bell. He said he detected an illegal condition
that needed to be resolved. If we refused, service would be stopped.
We let him in. He said that our amp was in violation and had to be
removed. We complied and he went away. The reason he gave was
that it interfered with aircraft, believe it or not. We never hooked it
back up. It was very scary to have somebody pull up outside and
"scan" our premisis. Makes you wonder what else they have.
  #4   Report Post  
I-zheet M'drurz
 
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Default Question on splitting cable signals....

On 31 Dec 2003, Bill wrote:

My cable TV reception is "OK" but I am thinking of ways to reduce
signal loss and improve the picture if possible.

- I have about 6 TV's in my house.... 3 on the main living floor, and
3 in the upper bedrooms.
- My cable comes in the basement, and is split 4 ways, with one going
to the upstairs.
- The upstairs lead is split again 3 ways for the bedrooms.

In theory, would it be better to split the incoming siganl 6 ways in
the basement, and run 3 independant cables to each bedroom?

What about in practice? Would 1 less slpit in the chain improve
things?


Thepry and practice will be the same, as splitters are passive
devices and the cable lengths will always come into play, as the
distances will stay the same.

Each split is a 3.5 dB loss. A 4-way splitter is 3 2-ways in one
enclosure (it splits once, then each split is split again) so you
get a loss of -7dB on each of the 4 outputs. Finally, a 3-way
(what it sounds like you have upstairs) is TWO 2-ways in one
enclosure. It splits once and then ONE of those legs is split
again, so your 3 outputs are not all equal, you have a "low
loss out" (-3.5 dB) and two "high loss outs" (-7dB)

Yes, split everything at a convenient spot in the basement. Keep
the existing 4-way that you currently have 1st in line, use three
of those outputs and run them to the 3 sets farthest away from
the split (your upper level rooms). The last output of the 4-way
becomes the input to the 3-way that used to be upstairs, you can
reuse it in the basement. Again, use the low loss leg to feed the
TV farthest away from the split, and the two high loss outs will
feed the TV's closest to the splitter.

If you count "splits in line between source and set" This is your
current setup:

Downstairs 1: 2
Downstairs 2: 2
Downstairs 3: 2
Upstairs 1: 3 (low loss leg of 3-way)
Upstairs 2: 4
Upstairs 3: 4

....and this would be the new setup:

Downstairs 1: 3 (low loss leg of 3-way)
Downstairs 2: 4
Downstairs 3: 4
Upstairs 1: 2
Upstairs 2: 2
Upstairs 3: 2

...same signal, just distributed better, getting more to the
distant locations. HTH.

--
Baisez-les s'ils ne peuvent pas prendre une plaisanterie
--------------------------------------------------------
Tom Pendergast e-mail is for sissies, say it on line
  #5   Report Post  
Edwin Pawlowski
 
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Default Question on splitting cable signals....


"Bill" wrote in message
...
My cable TV reception is "OK" but I am thinking of ways to reduce signal
loss and improve the picture if possible.

- I have about 6 TV's in my house.... 3 on the main living floor, and 3 in
the upper bedrooms.
- My cable comes in the basement, and is split 4 ways, with one going to

the
upstairs.
- The upstairs lead is split again 3 ways for the bedrooms.



Have you talked to the cable company? I was pleasantly surprised a few
years ago when I found that regulations changed. I pair for cable for one
set and split it for three others, just like you have done. Definite
reception loss, but better than paying for cable for each.

Some years later, they no longer charged for additional sets. The cable
company came out and wired each one for a modest fee (10 or 15 bucks each)
and reception is now perfect for all of them. NO splitters, no amps, no
fuzzy pictures.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome




  #6   Report Post  
j j
 
Posts: n/a
Default splitting cable signals....Speaking of AMPs


"Sasal Suzi" wrote in message
...


Just don't put the amp where there is little or no
signal or you


Speaking of amps .....
A couple of years ago we had 5 TV's and an amp, gemini I think.
We were eating dinner when we heard a loud beep, beep, beep
coming from outside. There was a Comcast cable truck outside.
The worker rang our bell. He said he detected an illegal condition
that needed to be resolved. If we refused, service would be stopped.
We let him in. He said that our amp was in violation and had to be
removed. We complied and he went away. The reason he gave was
that it interfered with aircraft, believe it or not. We never hooked it
back up. It was very scary to have somebody pull up outside and
"scan" our premisis. Makes you wonder what else they have.


that's BS. they don't want you getting different TVs in your house without
paying extra.

A coax cable is a shielded transmission line, it's got the neutral wrapped
around the inner conductor and it shouldn't radiate anything, certainly not
enough to reach airplanes.
while a really bad amplifier could leak out RF, at 100MHz the wavelength is
about 3 meters and an antenna must be at least 1.5 meters. I don't think the
amp could work as a good antenna for the cable frequencies. maybe someone in
front of your house could detect some leaks but not an airplane 10Km above.

it's more likely that the amp was cheap and it did create interference on
their own network, or that they simply wanted you to pay extra.


  #8   Report Post  
EvoDawg
 
Posts: n/a
Default splitting cable signals....Speaking of AMPs

Sasal Suzi wrote:



Just don't put the amp where there is little or no
signal or you


Speaking of amps .....
A couple of years ago we had 5 TV's and an amp, gemini I think.
We were eating dinner when we heard a loud beep, beep, beep
coming from outside. There was a Comcast cable truck outside.
The worker rang our bell. He said he detected an illegal condition
that needed to be resolved. If we refused, service would be stopped.
We let him in. He said that our amp was in violation and had to be
removed. We complied and he went away. The reason he gave was
that it interfered with aircraft, believe it or not. We never hooked it
back up. It was very scary to have somebody pull up outside and
"scan" our premisis. Makes you wonder what else they have.


Your amp was leaking RF, and the tech was picking it up with a RF leak
detector. All cable companies are required by the FCC to conduct these test
and fix any leakage. The leaks can interfear with the public safety, Police
and Fire comm. and Airline communications. If the FCC was to have found the
leak the Cable Company in question could have been fined. That was the only
reason he came to the house and asked you to remove it. He could careless
how many outlets you had installed in the house. Techs don't usually give
to craps about outlets and charges not being collected because they're
highly underpaid and overworked.

I should know I have been in the cable business for 25 years and just
recently said good riddance to it. I owned a cable construction business
and probably placed 100 of thousands of miles of cable up until some idiot
cable inspector (Charter) working in cable for a year told me I was doing
it wrong. That was the last straw. I retired from it and am happily doing
home improvement work. Anyone want to buy a couple of T-40c's

Rich
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
  #9   Report Post  
j j
 
Posts: n/a
Default splitting cable signals....Speaking of AMPs


"John Hines" wrote in message
...
The frequencies used by air craft, and police are right above the FM
band (what would be 109-120 on the dial or so), which is between
channels 6 and 7 in the TV spectrum.

So yes, a bad TV antenna product can cause problems with public safety.


yes, but there's no antenna in an amplifier.
let's say the amp is 10 cm long, if there's a 10cm trace on the PCB it could
radiate at 1.5Ghz, not 100MHz. I can see how someone outide your house can
pick up stray emissions, but I don't see how these emissions would reach an
aircraft 10Km above.


  #10   Report Post  
Art Begun
 
Posts: n/a
Default Question on splitting cable signals....

Just thought I would mention, if you buy splitter at Radio Shack, the
gold ones indeed have better specs than then cheaper ones.


"Bill" wrote in message
...
My cable TV reception is "OK" but I am thinking of ways to reduce

signal
loss and improve the picture if possible.

- I have about 6 TV's in my house.... 3 on the main living floor,

and 3 in
the upper bedrooms.
- My cable comes in the basement, and is split 4 ways, with one

going to the
upstairs.
- The upstairs lead is split again 3 ways for the bedrooms.

In theory, would it be better to split the incoming siganl 6 ways in

the
basement, and run 3 independant cables to each bedroom?

What about in practice? Would 1 less slpit in the chain improve

things?






  #11   Report Post  
Jeff Wisnia
 
Posts: n/a
Default splitting cable signals....Speaking of AMPs

Uh, the line cord on that amp was probably a bit longer than 10 cm, huh?

If the manufacturer didn't give a ****e about keeping the rf leakage down, then
the amp could have been lighting up the house's whole electrical distribution
system with rf. Odds are that's what the cable company picked up.

Now do you "see why". (Ducking...)

You've undoubtendly noticed labels on all sorts of electronic equipment stating
that they comply with certain FCC rules with regards to rf leakage. Those "thick
lumps" you often see on cables coming out of computer monitors are ferrite
chokes, used to block rf currents from going any further.

Just my .02

Happy New Year,

Jeff

--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"If you can smile when things are going wrong, you've thought of someone to
blame it on."



j j wrote:

"John Hines" wrote in message
...
The frequencies used by air craft, and police are right above the FM
band (what would be 109-120 on the dial or so), which is between
channels 6 and 7 in the TV spectrum.

So yes, a bad TV antenna product can cause problems with public safety.


yes, but there's no antenna in an amplifier.
let's say the amp is 10 cm long, if there's a 10cm trace on the PCB it could
radiate at 1.5Ghz, not 100MHz. I can see how someone outide your house can
pick up stray emissions, but I don't see how these emissions would reach an
aircraft 10Km above.





  #12   Report Post  
Jeff Wisnia
 
Posts: n/a
Default Question on splitting cable signals....

If you do buy an amp, make sure you get one rated to amplify signals up to at
least 900 Mhz, don't let someone stick you with an "old stock" amp which may
only work up to 300 Mhz. You'll lose the higher channels with one of the old
ones. (DAMHIKT)

Likewise with any cable you get, make sure it's rated for 900 Mhz too.

Happy New Year,

Jeff

EvoDawg wrote:

Bill wrote:

My cable TV reception is "OK" but I am thinking of ways to reduce signal
loss and improve the picture if possible.

- I have about 6 TV's in my house.... 3 on the main living floor, and 3 in
the upper bedrooms.
- My cable comes in the basement, and is split 4 ways, with one going to
the upstairs.
- The upstairs lead is split again 3 ways for the bedrooms.

In theory, would it be better to split the incoming siganl 6 ways in the
basement, and run 3 independant cables to each bedroom?

What about in practice? Would 1 less slpit in the chain improve things?


Most splitters have db loss printed right on them. Hook the shortest run to
the hightest loss on the splitter. You might think about getting an amp to
jack up the dB's first. Just don't put the amp where there is little or no
signal or you will just be amplifying noise. Get a good amp, cheap ones
just make it worse. Its always best to have home runs to each TV but thats
not always feasible. Also make sure if your splitting a signal your not
splitting it on the high db loss side of the splitter.

Good Luck,
Rich
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"


--

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"If you can smile when things are going wrong, you've thought of someone to
blame it on."


  #13   Report Post  
Jeff Wisnia
 
Posts: n/a
Default splitting cable signals....Speaking of AMPs

Reminds me of England not so many years ago when folks had to pay an annual
license fee/tax for each TV in a home, even though the signals they
received were coming through the ether. The government had trucks which
cruised around neighborhoods sniffing for the IF frequencies leaking out
of TV sets and whacked you if you had an unregistered set.

I dunno much more about that, but I'm guessing the tax supported the BBC or
something like that. Maybe that's still a common practice is some parts of
the world?

Jeff

Jeff Wisnia (W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"If you can smile when things are going wrong, you've thought of someone to
blame it on."


Sasal Suzi wrote:



Just don't put the amp where there is little or no
signal or you


Speaking of amps .....
A couple of years ago we had 5 TV's and an amp, gemini I think.
We were eating dinner when we heard a loud beep, beep, beep
coming from outside. There was a Comcast cable truck outside.
The worker rang our bell. He said he detected an illegal condition
that needed to be resolved. If we refused, service would be stopped.
We let him in. He said that our amp was in violation and had to be
removed. We complied and he went away. The reason he gave was
that it interfered with aircraft, believe it or not. We never hooked it
back up. It was very scary to have somebody pull up outside and
"scan" our premisis. Makes you wonder what else they have.





  #14   Report Post  
John Hines
 
Posts: n/a
Default splitting cable signals....Speaking of AMPs

f"j j" wrote:


"John Hines" wrote in message
.. .
The frequencies used by air craft, and police are right above the FM
band (what would be 109-120 on the dial or so), which is between
channels 6 and 7 in the TV spectrum.

So yes, a bad TV antenna product can cause problems with public safety.


yes, but there's no antenna in an amplifier.


No, there are long (relative) cables plugged into it.


  #15   Report Post  
j j
 
Posts: n/a
Default splitting cable signals....Speaking of AMPs


"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...
Uh, the line cord on that amp was probably a bit longer than 10 cm, huh?

If the manufacturer didn't give a ****e about keeping the rf leakage down,

then
the amp could have been lighting up the house's whole electrical

distribution
system with rf. Odds are that's what the cable company picked up.


I just didnt' think a system could be so badly designed that the signal path
interferes with the power supply. in that case yes, there's an antenna in
there, bu the fix is simple: get an amp that is not complete ****.




  #16   Report Post  
Joseph Meehan
 
Posts: n/a
Default splitting cable signals....Speaking of AMPs

No, more likely the amp was feeding back signal through the line and a
neighbor complained. In checking that out, he may well have found you amp
was also going illegal. The cable companies hare sensitive to what you hook
up to THEIR lines as it can cause problems for other customers.

I might add that if you are violating the contract you have with the
cable company by feeding more TVs than you are paying for or are using
pirate equipment to get stations you are not paying for it is YOU who are
cheap and stealing from the cable company and all the users who are not
stealing.

--
Joseph E. Meehan

26 + 6 = 1 It's Irish Math


"j j" wrote in message
...

"Sasal Suzi" wrote in message
...


Just don't put the amp where there is little or no
signal or you


Speaking of amps .....
A couple of years ago we had 5 TV's and an amp, gemini I think.
We were eating dinner when we heard a loud beep, beep, beep
coming from outside. There was a Comcast cable truck outside.
The worker rang our bell. He said he detected an illegal condition
that needed to be resolved. If we refused, service would be stopped.
We let him in. He said that our amp was in violation and had to be
removed. We complied and he went away. The reason he gave was
that it interfered with aircraft, believe it or not. We never hooked it
back up. It was very scary to have somebody pull up outside and
"scan" our premisis. Makes you wonder what else they have.


that's BS. they don't want you getting different TVs in your house without
paying extra.

A coax cable is a shielded transmission line, it's got the neutral wrapped
around the inner conductor and it shouldn't radiate anything, certainly

not
enough to reach airplanes.
while a really bad amplifier could leak out RF, at 100MHz the wavelength

is
about 3 meters and an antenna must be at least 1.5 meters. I don't think

the
amp could work as a good antenna for the cable frequencies. maybe someone

in
front of your house could detect some leaks but not an airplane 10Km

above.

it's more likely that the amp was cheap and it did create interference on
their own network, or that they simply wanted you to pay extra.




  #17   Report Post  
B a r r y B u r k e J r .
 
Posts: n/a
Default splitting cable signals....Speaking of AMPs

On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 21:24:24 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

No, more likely the amp was feeding back signal through the line and a
neighbor complained. In checking that out, he may well have found you amp
was also going illegal.


They also could have found the amp, especially if it's a cheapie,
during a drive-by leakage test.

CATV companies are required to meet certain leakage standards. Some
have a very hard time keeping their outside plant in passing
condition, maybe they don't want you blowing the bogie for them. G

Barry
  #18   Report Post  
j j
 
Posts: n/a
Default splitting cable signals....Speaking of AMPs


"John Hines" wrote in message
...

So yes, a bad TV antenna product can cause problems with public safety.


yes, but there's no antenna in an amplifier.


No, there are long (relative) cables plugged into it.


ya but those are shielded
they pass signals in the hundreds of megaherz anyway, with or without an
amp. if they weren't shielded they'd radiate either way.


  #19   Report Post  
Enuf
 
Posts: n/a
Default splitting cable signals....Speaking of AMPs

(Sasal Suzi) wrote in message ...


Just don't put the amp where there is little or no
signal or you


Speaking of amps .....
A couple of years ago we had 5 TV's and an amp, gemini I think.
We were eating dinner when we heard a loud beep, beep, beep
coming from outside. There was a Comcast cable truck outside.
The worker rang our bell. He said he detected an illegal condition
that needed to be resolved. If we refused, service would be stopped.
We let him in. He said that our amp was in violation and had to be
removed. We complied and he went away. The reason he gave was
that it interfered with aircraft, believe it or not. We never hooked it
back up. It was very scary to have somebody pull up outside and
"scan" our premisis. Makes you wonder what else they have.


When I worked for the FAA, I received pretty intensive training on
tracking down sources of RF interference. You would be amazed at what
odd stuff generates interference - even nonpowered things like a loose
metal crossarm brace on a wooden telephone pole. The most common
things though are items attached to TV's, especially amps. When we
found the home or business where the interference was coming from, we
were not allowed to take any action to correct the problem. Rather we
had to contact a third party -like the cable company, power company,
phone company, etc. Then they had to take action or face losing their
licenses. This sounds like what happened in your case.
As stated by other posters, the aircraft VHF frequencies are in the
115Mhz to 145Mhz range, just above the TV frequencies. But don't
forget about harmonic frequencies - the offending item could be at a
much lower frequency and the harmonic be in the aircraft band. And the
offending item does not have to put out enough power to reach an
aircraft. It only has to reach the ground antenna of the Air Traffic
Controller.

Enuf
  #20   Report Post  
Jim Yanik
 
Posts: n/a
Default splitting cable signals....Speaking of AMPs

(Sasal Suzi) wrote in
:



Just don't put the amp where there is little or no
signal or you


Speaking of amps .....
A couple of years ago we had 5 TV's and an amp, gemini I think.
We were eating dinner when we heard a loud beep, beep, beep
coming from outside. There was a Comcast cable truck outside.
The worker rang our bell. He said he detected an illegal condition
that needed to be resolved. If we refused, service would be stopped.
We let him in. He said that our amp was in violation and had to be
removed. We complied and he went away. The reason he gave was
that it interfered with aircraft, believe it or not. We never hooked it
back up. It was very scary to have somebody pull up outside and
"scan" our premisis. Makes you wonder what else they have.


He was checking for EMI,electromagnetic interference,and it's required by
Federal law.That's one of the main problems for cable companies,and they do
get fined by the FCC for it.They weren't 'scanning",they drive around with
a sensitive receiver with a directional antenna,that points in the
direction EMI is coming from. Loose or corroded F-connectors can cause
it,too.

One other thing,all amplifiers ADD noise to the signal in addition to
boosting the level.The cable companies usually deliver to the home the
lowest signal level practical to further reduce their EMI radiation.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net


  #21   Report Post  
Jim Yanik
 
Posts: n/a
Default splitting cable signals....Speaking of AMPs

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in
:

No, more likely the amp was feeding back signal through the line
and a
neighbor complained. In checking that out, he may well have found you
amp was also going illegal. The cable companies hare sensitive to
what you hook up to THEIR lines as it can cause problems for other
customers.


The amp could be a cheapo one,and acting as a noise generator.Or
overdriving an input,or had a loose connection.




--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net
  #22   Report Post  
Jim Yanik
 
Posts: n/a
Default splitting cable signals....Speaking of AMPs

B a r r y B u r k e J r .
wrote in :

On Thu, 01 Jan 2004 21:24:24 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

No, more likely the amp was feeding back signal through the line
and a
neighbor complained. In checking that out, he may well have found you
amp was also going illegal.


They also could have found the amp, especially if it's a cheapie,
during a drive-by leakage test.

CATV companies are required to meet certain leakage standards. Some
have a very hard time keeping their outside plant in passing
condition, maybe they don't want you blowing the bogie for them. G

Barry


BINGO,you have the correct answer.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net
  #23   Report Post  
Jim Yanik
 
Posts: n/a
Default splitting cable signals....Speaking of AMPs

"j j" wrote in
:


"John Hines" wrote in message
...
The frequencies used by air craft, and police are right above the FM
band (what would be 109-120 on the dial or so), which is between
channels 6 and 7 in the TV spectrum.

So yes, a bad TV antenna product can cause problems with public
safety.


yes, but there's no antenna in an amplifier.
let's say the amp is 10 cm long, if there's a 10cm trace on the PCB it
could radiate at 1.5Ghz, not 100MHz. I can see how someone outide your
house can pick up stray emissions, but I don't see how these emissions
would reach an aircraft 10Km above.




A loose F connector (or an improperly installed one)can allow leakage,or a
corroded connector;the corrosion acts like a diode,creating harmonics from
the many signals on the cable.One of the cable channels may have the
same,or be close to a frequency used by aircraft.

Tha amp itself could have problems,perhaps overdriving an internal stage
enough to cause EMI radiation.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net
  #24   Report Post  
Enuf
 
Posts: n/a
Default splitting cable signals....Speaking of AMPs

A loose F connector (or an improperly installed one)can allow leakage,or a
corroded connector;the corrosion acts like a diode,creating harmonics from
the many signals on the cable.One of the cable channels may have the
same,or be close to a frequency used by aircraft.

Tha amp itself could have problems,perhaps overdriving an internal stage
enough to cause EMI radiation.


cheap TV amps (including Gemini as the OP stated) were notorious for
RFI at one time. I think they have been forced to provide a cleaner
product now.

Enuf
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