I'm living in a house with a broken furnace and the plan is to use a
kerosene heater in the kitchen along with electric space heaters in other
rooms. It's a Dyna-Glo RMC-95-C2. What should I be worried about? A friend
has promised to send me a CO alarm. Hopefully it will arrive before the
heater is brought in and fired up. These people think the dogs will warn us
if there is a problem with Carbon Monoxide because it will affect them
before it will affect humans. How can I make sure this space heater is
operated safely?

Ken

Buy your own good digital read out alarm and test it with the test
button and blow some smoke in it to be sure it works, and learn its
readings. they dont last, dont rely on something you dont know is good.
Dogs will only sleep more as will you with high levels , eventualy not
waking up.

Co builds up in the blood , minimal exposure builds up over many days
in your blood. Fix the dam furnace ,unless you live out west and
have cheap hydro power, gas heat is 50% cheaper than electric.

"K Wind" wrote in message
These people think the dogs will warn us
if there is a problem with Carbon Monoxide because it will affect them
before it will affect humans.


This is correct. The dogs will die before you do. If you see the dogs
dead, you know you will die shortly. If you don't see them dead, it may be
because you missed it and are already dead. CO death is supposed to be
painless so you won't feel a thing.

As for the heater, some are supposed to be OK for a house, others may not
be. Read the manufacturer's instructions carefully and be sure you have
some ventilation. Be aware of the fire hazard also. Filling the tank is
the most dangerous situation.
Ed

"mark Ransley" wrote in message
...
Co builds up in the blood , minimal exposure builds up over many days
in your blood. Fix the dam furnace ,unless you live out west and
have cheap hydro power, gas heat is 50% cheaper than electric.


I hear you. The best I could do was to stop the furnace from being used. The
first time it was worked on, the gasket between the burner
motor/pump/igniter assembly and the front of the furnace was destroyed. The
burner motor/pump/igniter assembly was installed without the gasket. The
house filled up with fumes. Can't say for sure that the fumes were due to
the missing gasket, I just knew one should be there. I complained and
instead of installing a gasket, chamber lining was used. I questioned that
and now the furnace is not going to used and the space heater is. I am
unable to make these people understand that furnaces SHOULD NOT be modified
in any way. If a new gasket is to be used, two are going to installed
because if one is good, two is even better. Never mind that the furnace will
not be in compliance because of modification.

I know this from my electrical engineering background. I have taken many
machines
through UL, CSA, ETL, FCC, CE, etc... . This included evaluation, testing,
researching the parts, manufacturing and assembly documentation, and writing
a report for the institution that was going to supply the appropriate label.

We go through this process to make machines safe for consumers.

Ken

I would buy a good sleeping bag, or electric blanket and use the kerosene
heater only during the day, with ventilation. The cost of a good bag is
cheaper than the cost of K1 fuel.

Tom


"K Wind" wrote in message
. ..
I'm living in a house with a broken furnace and the plan is to use a
kerosene heater in the kitchen along with electric space heaters in other
rooms. It's a Dyna-Glo RMC-95-C2. What should I be worried about? A friend
has promised to send me a CO alarm. Hopefully it will arrive before the
heater is brought in and fired up. These people think the dogs will warn
us
if there is a problem with Carbon Monoxide because it will affect them
before it will affect humans. How can I make sure this space heater is
operated safely?

Ken

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 18:14:23 GMT, "K Wind"
wrote:

I'm living in a house with a broken furnace and the plan is to use a
kerosene heater in the kitchen along with electric space heaters in other
rooms. It's a Dyna-Glo RMC-95-C2. What should I be worried about? A friend
has promised to send me a CO alarm. Hopefully it will arrive before the
heater is brought in and fired up. These people think the dogs will warn us
if there is a problem with Carbon Monoxide because it will affect them
before it will affect humans. How can I make sure this space heater is
operated safely?

Ken


Kerosene heaters are not safe. Stop by your local fire station and
talk with a fire-fighter who knows. It is not worth the savings. Get
a CO detector with a digital readout anyway--CO is odorless and
deadly.

You mention mold, no furnace and Them. Do you rent, it sounds like
somebody is Not providing a healthy atmosphere for you. Who are They
that think stupidly dogs warn of Co, and kilz over mold is safe, im
intersted.

"K Wind" wrote in message

I questioned that
and now the furnace is not going to used and the space heater is. I am
unable to make these people understand that furnaces SHOULD NOT be
modified
in any way. If a new gasket is to be used, two are going to installed
because if one is good, two is even better. Never mind that the furnace
will
not be in compliance because of modification.

Who does not understand? Is this a rental property? If so, there are
avenues you can take with the housing authority or some government agency
that enforces codes. It is a legal requirement that heat be provided, etc.

If it is relatives you speak of, they are just being stupid.
Ed

"mark Ransley" wrote in message
...
You mention mold, no furnace and Them. Do you rent, it sounds like
somebody is Not providing a healthy atmosphere for you. Who are They
that think stupidly dogs warn of Co, and kilz over mold is safe, im
intersted.



I am disabled and waiting for my benefits to kick in. I'm living with
family. My brother in law works as a handy man is clueless about safety. The
mold is in an office building that he is supposed to be removing. He worked
on the furnace and messed it up worse. Now there is the possibility that a
kerosene heater will be brought in. I need to find out what to worry about
and solve the problems as they come. Thanks

Ken

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"K Wind" wrote in message

I questioned that
and now the furnace is not going to used and the space heater is. I am
unable to make these people understand that furnaces SHOULD NOT be
modified
in any way. If a new gasket is to be used, two are going to installed
because if one is good, two is even better. Never mind that the furnace
will
not be in compliance because of modification.

Who does not understand? Is this a rental property? If so, there are
avenues you can take with the housing authority or some government agency
that enforces codes. It is a legal requirement that heat be provided,
etc.

If it is relatives you speak of, they are just being stupid.
Ed


It's relatives.

So where are ya whats your addy and phone no , we can send a
supply out

I have used KEROSENE heaters for over 20 years without a problem. It
is important to remember a few rules: 1) Keep the heater in good
operating condition 2) Replace the wick every year 3) Use only high
grade kerosene 4) Store only kerosene in your kerosene container -
gasoline is highly flammable and you do not want ANY gasoline to make
its way into your heater. Do not store kerosene near an ignition
source (e.g., gas water heater). 5) Do not operate the heater too
close to flammable items (e.g., furniture, curtains, etc.). Your
owner's manual will tell you what the minimum distance to flammables
is. 6) Do not operate the heater in an airtight space. Crack a window
or door to allow fresh air in. 7) Do not leave the heater operating
unattended and especially do not go to sleep with the heater operating
in the same room (for obvious reasons). 8) Do not move or refuel the
heater while it is operating.

this guy is a laughin Troll , and a happy ass on your time . an
ass ...a happy ass.......

"K Wind" wrote in message
news

"mark Ransley" wrote in message
...
Co builds up in the blood , minimal exposure builds up over many days
in your blood. Fix the dam furnace ,unless you live out west and
have cheap hydro power, gas heat is 50% cheaper than electric.


I hear you. The best I could do was to stop the furnace from being used.
The
first time it was worked on, the gasket between the burner
motor/pump/igniter assembly and the front of the furnace was destroyed.
The
burner motor/pump/igniter assembly was installed without the gasket. The
house filled up with fumes. Can't say for sure that the fumes were due to
the missing gasket, I just knew one should be there.

Depends...is it a ThermoPride oil furnace?
Or is it an old Nordyne or similar? Some units gaskets are not available and
Kaowool liners come with more than ample extra to allow for this.

As far as fumes go...if its an oil unit, you got more problems than a
gasket...


I complained and
instead of installing a gasket, chamber lining was used.

And thats fine, and actually a better material if installed correctly than
the old gasket.

I questioned that
and now the furnace is not going to used and the space heater is. I am
unable to make these people understand that furnaces SHOULD NOT be
modified
in any way.

Unless you are a dealer that is privy to upgrade or modification
information.
THEN, you can.

If a new gasket is to be used, two are going to installed
because if one is good, two is even better. Never mind that the furnace
will
not be in compliance because of modification.


Not only that, its going to leak about 4X faster....sheesh.


I know this from my electrical engineering background. I have taken many
machines
through UL, CSA, ETL, FCC, CE, etc... . This included evaluation, testing,
researching the parts, manufacturing and assembly documentation, and
writing
a report for the institution that was going to supply the appropriate
label.

How in hell did I know?
I do work for a mechanical engineer that designs commercial HVAC systems,
but he wont touch an oil burner...ask him. I was just over at his moms last
night, with him there, repairing someone elses brilliant move on the
unit...it about killed her...and hes been doing this over 30 years...the
neighbor that tried to help....he came within about an hour of killing her
with CO and maybe 30 minutes of burning the home down...



We go through this process to make machines safe for consumers.

Shame we cant make the units consumer proof.

Any tech that puts two gaskets on your unit, needs to be remanded to the
state local licence board.


Ken

Jesus...what a cluster**** waiting to happen...

Whats the addy of this place? Some of us might not want to go in, nor would
we want to be around when it goes boom.


"K Wind" wrote in message
. ..

"mark Ransley" wrote in message
...
You mention mold, no furnace and Them. Do you rent, it sounds like
somebody is Not providing a healthy atmosphere for you. Who are They
that think stupidly dogs warn of Co, and kilz over mold is safe, im
intersted.



I am disabled and waiting for my benefits to kick in. I'm living with
family. My brother in law works as a handy man is clueless about safety.
The
mold is in an office building that he is supposed to be removing. He
worked
on the furnace and messed it up worse. Now there is the possibility that a
kerosene heater will be brought in. I need to find out what to worry about
and solve the problems as they come. Thanks

Ken

Ive sent you 2 Emails , asking for a response , and nada .
are you ok,,,,,,,Respomd

"CBHvac" wrote in message
...

"K Wind" wrote in message
news

"mark Ransley" wrote in message
...
Co builds up in the blood , minimal exposure builds up over many
days
in your blood. Fix the dam furnace ,unless you live out west and
have cheap hydro power, gas heat is 50% cheaper than electric.


I hear you. The best I could do was to stop the furnace from being used.
The
first time it was worked on, the gasket between the burner
motor/pump/igniter assembly and the front of the furnace was destroyed.
The
burner motor/pump/igniter assembly was installed without the gasket. The
house filled up with fumes. Can't say for sure that the fumes were due
to
the missing gasket, I just knew one should be there.

Depends...is it a ThermoPride oil furnace?
Or is it an old Nordyne or similar? Some units gaskets are not available
and
Kaowool liners come with more than ample extra to allow for this.

As far as fumes go...if its an oil unit, you got more problems than a
gasket...


I complained and
instead of installing a gasket, chamber lining was used.

And thats fine, and actually a better material if installed correctly than
the old gasket.

If a qualified oil furnace tech installed it, that would be okay I guess.

Here is a summary of what was done to the furnace.

The furnace ran out of fuel at the end of the heating season last year. Fuel
oil was purchased, but the furnace wouldn't work.

My brother in law had an igniter transformer in his truck, so he decided to
replace the one in the furnace. The replacement was bigger, so he ground off
the mounting bracket for the original. The furnace didn't work. The next
day, he was still playing with the transformer and I decided to speed things
along by showing him how to test it. There was nothing wrong with it. Now
the original igniter transformer is being held on with electrical tape. I
also mentioned that the nozzle has a good chance of becoming plugged when
the tank runs dry. He bought one and installed it. He removed the entire
burner motor/pump/igniter assembly from the front of the furnace and that's
when the gasket was destroyed. Once the furnace began working, it was noted
that the burner would shut off before the blower would come on. Sometimes
the burner would come on twice and shut down before the blower started. I
was told that the fan/limit control settings were not correct. It did not
make sense. There is a schematic on a plate near the blower and I removed
it, cleaned it, scanned it, and redrew it using schematic capture. I then
went to the furnace and traced the wires and confirmed that they were going
where they should go. This helped me become familiar with the different
parts and I noticed that the flame detector was loose and "looking" off to
the side. The mounting screw was stripped. I replaced it and aimed the flame
detector correctly. Now, the furnace goes through its cycles correctly.

This is why I question using the kaowool. I can't trust anything this guy
does. At this point, I don't know if it was installed correctly. BTW, it's a
wet blanket.

There is one thing bothering me. The igniter transformer is mounted on a
hinged plate. Two screws at the hinged end and one at the other. The flame
detector is located under this plate. What prevents gases from escaping from
under the igniter transformer? Shouldn't there be a gasket there too?


I questioned that
and now the furnace is not going to used and the space heater is. I am
unable to make these people understand that furnaces SHOULD NOT be
modified
in any way.

Unless you are a dealer that is privy to upgrade or modification
information.
THEN, you can.

I understand. A dealer is qualified to make upgrades.


If a new gasket is to be used, two are going to installed
because if one is good, two is even better. Never mind that the furnace
will
not be in compliance because of modification.


Not only that, its going to leak about 4X faster....sheesh.

I don't understand why some people think they can or should modify some
machines. Especially ones that can kill.



I know this from my electrical engineering background. I have taken many
machines
through UL, CSA, ETL, FCC, CE, etc... . This included evaluation,
testing,
researching the parts, manufacturing and assembly documentation, and
writing
a report for the institution that was going to supply the appropriate
label.

How in hell did I know?

Not sure what you mean above.

I do work for a mechanical engineer that designs commercial HVAC systems,
but he wont touch an oil burner...ask him. I was just over at his moms
last
night, with him there, repairing someone elses brilliant move on the
unit...it about killed her...and hes been doing this over 30 years...the
neighbor that tried to help....he came within about an hour of killing her
with CO and maybe 30 minutes of burning the home down...

My best friend is a mechanical engineer. We have designed quite a few
machines together. Believe it or not, we worked in a specials department at
first. It was our job to modify core equipment to meet customer's specific
needs. I know I'm harping on modifications, but it was my job to do just
that. It was one of the most satisfying jobs I've ever had.

I'm sorry to hear that your friend has to worry about the next door neighbor
working on her furnace. The dumb ones don't know when to quit.





We go through this process to make machines safe for consumers.

Shame we cant make the units consumer proof.

The best that can be done is make them use a tool.


Any tech that puts two gaskets on your unit, needs to be remanded to the
state local licence board.

I agree.

Ken




Ken

Me? Mail servers been out for 3 days...cant wait for it to get back
up...figure 10 real mails and 400000000 spam..

"mark Ransley" wrote in message
...
Ive sent you 2 Emails , asking for a response , and nada .
are you ok,,,,,,,Respomd

So, tell us, why not fix the furnace? With all the smiling and helpful folks
on alt.hvac, you oughta have it up and running in no time. Heck, they might
even wholesale you parts.

Mention my name.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.org
..
..

"K Wind" wrote in message
. ..
I'm living in a house with a broken furnace and the plan is to use a
kerosene heater in the kitchen along with electric space heaters in other
rooms. It's a Dyna-Glo RMC-95-C2. What should I be worried about? A friend
has promised to send me a CO alarm. Hopefully it will arrive before the
heater is brought in and fired up. These people think the dogs will warn us
if there is a problem with Carbon Monoxide because it will affect them
before it will affect humans. How can I make sure this space heater is
operated safely?

Ken

I've gone along on an oil call or two -- and had a very little bit of hands
on training. And I've got two certificates somewhere, Carlin and Riello.

Sounds like you'd be wise to move out of that house. Soon.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.org
..
..

"K Wind" wrote in message
. ..

Here is a summary of what was done to the furnace.

The furnace ran out of fuel at the end of the heating season last year. Fuel
oil was purchased, but the furnace wouldn't work.

My brother in law had an igniter transformer in his truck, so he decided to
replace the one in the furnace. The replacement was bigger, so he ground off
the mounting bracket for the original. The furnace didn't work. The next
day, he was still playing with the transformer and I decided to speed things
along by showing him how to test it. There was nothing wrong with it. Now
the original igniter transformer is being held on with electrical tape. I
also mentioned that the nozzle has a good chance of becoming plugged when
the tank runs dry. He bought one and installed it. He removed the entire
burner motor/pump/igniter assembly from the front of the furnace and that's
when the gasket was destroyed. Once the furnace began working, it was noted
that the burner would shut off before the blower would come on. Sometimes
the burner would come on twice and shut down before the blower started. I
was told that the fan/limit control settings were not correct. It did not
make sense. There is a schematic on a plate near the blower and I removed
it, cleaned it, scanned it, and redrew it using schematic capture. I then
went to the furnace and traced the wires and confirmed that they were going
where they should go. This helped me become familiar with the different
parts and I noticed that the flame detector was loose and "looking" off to
the side. The mounting screw was stripped. I replaced it and aimed the flame
detector correctly. Now, the furnace goes through its cycles correctly.

This is why I question using the kaowool. I can't trust anything this guy
does. At this point, I don't know if it was installed correctly. BTW, it's a
wet blanket.

There is one thing bothering me. The igniter transformer is mounted on a
hinged plate. Two screws at the hinged end and one at the other. The flame
detector is located under this plate. What prevents gases from escaping from
under the igniter transformer? Shouldn't there be a gasket there too?

"K Wind" wrote in message
. ..
I'm living in a house with a broken furnace and the plan is to use a
kerosene heater in the kitchen along with electric space heaters in other
rooms. It's a Dyna-Glo RMC-95-C2. What should I be worried about? A friend
has promised to send me a CO alarm. Hopefully it will arrive before the
heater is brought in and fired up. These people think the dogs will warn
us
if there is a problem with Carbon Monoxide because it will affect them
before it will affect humans. How can I make sure this space heater is
operated safely?

Ken



I've looked at kerosene and electric vs. natural gas and from what I can see
kerosene is 2-3x (not accounting for a "cracked" window) the cost of gas and
electric is 4-6 times as expensive. These numbers are for the Northeast US.

It quickly became apparent to me the cost-effective solution is to isolate a
heated livingroom/diningroom/kitchen area from the rest of the house
(installation of a weatherstripped door worked to keep the air from leaving
and rising to the rest of the house), and to caulk, weatherstrip and
otherwise tighten leaks generally. I keep the heated area at 62 degrees and
dress warmly. My living area stays 20-30 degrees above the outside
temperature just from the ordinary heat of televisions, computers, etc. With
the heat on for a month of cold weather now I have used apprx. $3.50 in gas.

Since you're on a budget, you need to gain in one area what you lose in
another. It might hurt, but the cost of extra warm clothing and the
inconvenience of selective heating and sealing (caulk is cheap) can repay
you many times the first winter.

Electric releases no fumes, so if this is a big worry you ight want to use
electric selectively. If you burn anything, have a co2 detector under 5
years old (they deteriorate with age). My inlaws have used kerosene for
years with no problem. They heat in an occupied room and vent into the rest
of their large house. That setup solves both the area heat problem and the
venting problem, so it's another way to look at the problem.

Most kerosene problems I've read about have been from someone refilling a
hot heater. At room temperature, kerosene will put out a match tossed into
it. But heat it up and it burns. Never fill a hot kerosene heater indoors or
you will burn your house down.

Just a few ideas. Good luck with the heat!

"John Smith" John Smith @ nowhere.com wrote in message
...

If you burn anything, have a co2 detector under 5
years old (they deteriorate with age).


Whoops, I mean a CO detector