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  #1   Report Post  
Buck Wheat
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lawn Mower Idle Oscillates

My Murray lawn mower idle oscillates up and down, I can see the spring
on the carb moving about 1.5".

I there a spring kit or some kind of throttle control that may fix
this this?

I rarely use this lawn mower and am about to put it up for sale, just
thought I'd fix this problem before advertsiing.

Its a Murray riding lawnmower, model 30552x12a w/a Tecumseh 10 HP

Thanks for any input..
  #2   Report Post  
Stormin Mormon
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lawn Mower Idle Oscillates

I learned about this in my small engine repair course.

If the spring on the throttle gets a bit hardened (painted, rusty, etc) it
doesn't respond right. So the engine speed "hunts" for the right speed.

Replace the spring between the throttle and the carb.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.org
..
..

"Buck Wheat" wrote in message
om...
My Murray lawn mower idle oscillates up and down, I can see the spring
on the carb moving about 1.5".

I there a spring kit or some kind of throttle control that may fix
this this?

I rarely use this lawn mower and am about to put it up for sale, just
thought I'd fix this problem before advertsiing.

Its a Murray riding lawnmower, model 30552x12a w/a Tecumseh 10 HP

Thanks for any input..


  #3   Report Post  
Stephen Kurzban
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lawn Mower Idle Oscillates


Yup, could definitely be a spring. I read a little book on
repairing small engines from the library recently, and it
also suggested it could be any spring or linkage which
connects the governor system with the throttle.

You may have to remove the engine cover to fix this one, but
the good news is that if it's packed with grass or other
debris, cleaning it may resolve the issue for you (anything
that binds or blocks the spring(s) or linkages from proper
operation).

Good luck,

Stephen Kurzban

Buck Wheat wrote:

My Murray lawn mower idle oscillates up and down, I can see the spring
on the carb moving about 1.5".

I there a spring kit or some kind of throttle control that may fix
this this?

I rarely use this lawn mower and am about to put it up for sale, just
thought I'd fix this problem before advertsiing.

Its a Murray riding lawnmower, model 30552x12a w/a Tecumseh 10 HP

Thanks for any input..

  #4   Report Post  
Dr. Doctor
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lawn Mower Idle Oscillates

hunt or oscillates can be the spring but in all my years of working and
teaching on small engines it is not a common failure. there is a list of
possible here is but a few, air filter plugged, worn throttle shaft carb,
intake manifold leaking, governor problems (worn or misadjust) linkage worn
bent or missing, fuel problems.

as I said the list is long but when one runs into a problem with a spring it
is more common it will either be stretched and the rpms are too low or
modified some how and has too much tension making rpms too high.

good luck



  #5   Report Post  
Chip Stein
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lawn Mower Idle Oscillates

Stephen Kurzban wrote in message ...
Yup, could definitely be a spring. I read a little book on
repairing small engines from the library recently, and it
also suggested it could be any spring or linkage which
connects the governor system with the throttle.

You may have to remove the engine cover to fix this one, but
the good news is that if it's packed with grass or other
debris, cleaning it may resolve the issue for you (anything
that binds or blocks the spring(s) or linkages from proper
operation).



a spring won't fix it. you have junk in the carb. the idle feed
passage is clogged causing it to try and run off the main fuel
circuit. pull the bowl and clean thoroughly. up in the center of the
carb tube is a asmall passage running at a 45 degree angle towards the
top. this is where the restriction is.
good luck
Chip


  #6   Report Post  
Buck Wheat
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lawn Mower Idle Oscillates

Actually, it would not start about a month ago, so I took the bowl off
and cleaned out the carb and hoses. I had to turn the bowl little by
little to get it started again, I think maybe the bowl is still not
correctly positioned.

I'll take it off and try to find the right position, I have not seen
any markings to line-up..if there are any(?) I'll check all other
parts for clogging, etc.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, it's a riding mower and I dread
trying to get it to the shop.


"Dr. Doctor" wrote in message news:qpWYa.14434$%T.3973@edtnps84...
hunt or oscillates can be the spring but in all my years of working and
teaching on small engines it is not a common failure. there is a list of
possible here is but a few, air filter plugged, worn throttle shaft carb,
intake manifold leaking, governor problems (worn or misadjust) linkage worn
bent or missing, fuel problems.

as I said the list is long but when one runs into a problem with a spring it
is more common it will either be stretched and the rpms are too low or
modified some how and has too much tension making rpms too high.

good luck

  #7   Report Post  
Bob M.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lawn Mower Idle Oscillates

If it's a Tecumseh engine, and there's a flat area in the fuel bowl, this
goes directly under the hinge area of the carb, so the float can drop as far
as it needs to.

Bob
===
"Buck Wheat" wrote in message
om...
Actually, it would not start about a month ago, so I took the bowl off
and cleaned out the carb and hoses. I had to turn the bowl little by
little to get it started again, I think maybe the bowl is still not
correctly positioned.

I'll take it off and try to find the right position, I have not seen
any markings to line-up..if there are any(?) I'll check all other
parts for clogging, etc.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, it's a riding mower and I dread
trying to get it to the shop.


"Dr. Doctor" wrote in message

news:qpWYa.14434$%T.3973@edtnps84...
hunt or oscillates can be the spring but in all my years of working and
teaching on small engines it is not a common failure. there is a list of
possible here is but a few, air filter plugged, worn throttle shaft

carb,
intake manifold leaking, governor problems (worn or misadjust) linkage

worn
bent or missing, fuel problems.

as I said the list is long but when one runs into a problem with a

spring it
is more common it will either be stretched and the rpms are too low or
modified some how and has too much tension making rpms too high.

good luck



  #8   Report Post  
Buck Wheat
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lawn Mower Idle Oscillates

That's exactly what I needed to know, I tried several positions
yesterday w/the float bowl, all yielded the same result...no change,
I'll correct it today. I was able to cut the lawn as once it is in
full throttle it doesn't seem to oscillate.

What does the screw/adjustment at the bottom of the float bowl do?

Thanks.

"Bob M." wrote in message ...
If it's a Tecumseh engine, and there's a flat area in the fuel bowl, this
goes directly under the hinge area of the carb, so the float can drop as far
as it needs to.

Bob
===
"Buck Wheat" wrote in message
om...
Actually, it would not start about a month ago, so I took the bowl off
and cleaned out the carb and hoses. I had to turn the bowl little by
little to get it started again, I think maybe the bowl is still not
correctly positioned.

I'll take it off and try to find the right position, I have not seen
any markings to line-up..if there are any(?) I'll check all other
parts for clogging, etc.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, it's a riding mower and I dread
trying to get it to the shop.


"Dr. Doctor" wrote in message

news:qpWYa.14434$%T.3973@edtnps84...
hunt or oscillates can be the spring but in all my years of working and
teaching on small engines it is not a common failure. there is a list of
possible here is but a few, air filter plugged, worn throttle shaft

carb,
intake manifold leaking, governor problems (worn or misadjust) linkage

worn
bent or missing, fuel problems.

as I said the list is long but when one runs into a problem with a

spring it
is more common it will either be stretched and the rpms are too low or
modified some how and has too much tension making rpms too high.

good luck

  #9   Report Post  
Bob M.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lawn Mower Idle Oscillates

The screw at the bottom is the main jet needle valve.

Tecumseh carbs have three adjustments: idle speed which will be a screw
possibly with a spring wrapped around it, that sets how far the throttle
plate can close off the fuel/air supply; a low speed needle valve which is
often located on top or on the side near the throttle shaft, and a high
speed or main needle valve located under the fuel bowl.

The low speed (often called idle mixture) needle valve is adjusted for
maximum RPM at idle. This is usually about 1-1/2 turns from fully tightened.
Turn it slowly each way, noting where the engine runs rougher or slows down,
then set it in the middle. Do this adjustment first.

Second would be to set the idle speed. This is often around 1800 for rotary
mowers but could be slower for tractors, i.e. 1200 - 1400 RPM. If you make a
significant adjustment here, go back and repeat the idle mixture adjustment.

Lastly is the high speed mixture. Set the engine at idle speed, then set it
to full throttle using the main speed control. Do NOT use a finger to
manually open the throttle at the carburetor as the engine is governed and
should limit its speed to around 3000 RPM. Adjust the mixture so the engine
accelerates without hesitation or backfiring. This will take several tries,
and is also usually around 1-1/2 turns from fully tightened. Usually it will
only take a change of 1/4 to 1/2 turn to get it to smoothly accelerate. You
can do this under load as well. Clockwise will result in a leaner mixture,
i.e. less fuel compared to the air going through the carburetor.

None of these adjustments should be way out unless someone pulled the valves
out to clean the carburetor and didn't pay attention to where they were set
beforehand. If you do need to pull them out, carefully turn each one in
(clockwise) and count how many turns it takes until it seats fully, but do
not exceed that position, then remove it and the spring. Some needle valves
also have a rubber O-ring and even a flat washer at the end of the spring in
the casting, so be careful.

These procedures are most likely outlined in the several good books on small
engine repair. A trip to a local library might give you more detailed
information. I'm going from memory as I usually make the adjustments without
even thinking about them.

Good luck.
Bob
====
"Buck Wheat" wrote in message
om...
That's exactly what I needed to know, I tried several positions
yesterday w/the float bowl, all yielded the same result...no change,
I'll correct it today. I was able to cut the lawn as once it is in
full throttle it doesn't seem to oscillate.

What does the screw/adjustment at the bottom of the float bowl do?

Thanks.

"Bob M." wrote in message

...
If it's a Tecumseh engine, and there's a flat area in the fuel bowl,

this
goes directly under the hinge area of the carb, so the float can drop as

far
as it needs to.

Bob
===
"Buck Wheat" wrote in message
om...
Actually, it would not start about a month ago, so I took the bowl off
and cleaned out the carb and hoses. I had to turn the bowl little by
little to get it started again, I think maybe the bowl is still not
correctly positioned.

I'll take it off and try to find the right position, I have not seen
any markings to line-up..if there are any(?) I'll check all other
parts for clogging, etc.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, it's a riding mower and I dread
trying to get it to the shop.


"Dr. Doctor" wrote in message

news:qpWYa.14434$%T.3973@edtnps84...
hunt or oscillates can be the spring but in all my years of working

and
teaching on small engines it is not a common failure. there is a

list of
possible here is but a few, air filter plugged, worn throttle shaft

carb,
intake manifold leaking, governor problems (worn or misadjust)

linkage
worn
bent or missing, fuel problems.

as I said the list is long but when one runs into a problem with a

spring it
is more common it will either be stretched and the rpms are too low

or
modified some how and has too much tension making rpms too high.

good luck



  #10   Report Post  
Stormin Mormon
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lawn Mower Idle Oscillates

Increases or decreases the gas jet. Richens or leans the fuel mix.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.org
..
..

"Buck Wheat" wrote in message
om...
What does the screw/adjustment at the bottom of the float bowl do?

Thanks.





  #11   Report Post  
CBHvac
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lawn Mower Idle Oscillates

Unless its a water drain, and NOT an adjustment...
Hard to adjust JETS when they are FIXED.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Increases or decreases the gas jet. Richens or leans the fuel mix.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.org
.
.

"Buck Wheat" wrote in message
om...
What does the screw/adjustment at the bottom of the float bowl do?

Thanks.





  #12   Report Post  
Bob M.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lawn Mower Idle Oscillates

I have seen two styles of water drains: spring-loaded types that you push up
with your finger and let stuff out, and an actual 12mm bolt with a gasket
that unscrews. Usually these are mounted off to the side of the bottom of
the bowl, not directly in the center, and it's hard to call them
adjustments. I'm pretty sure the original poster was referring to the
knurled screw and spring that screws up into the center bolt that also holds
the fuel bowl to the carburetor. This does go into the tube that feeds the
main jet, so if you stretch the previous poster's reply, he's got all the
words there to convey the message, but it could use just a few more. I
understood what he was saying, and it does indeed richen and lean the fuel
mixture once the throttle is off the idle position. I think the original
poster will find more than enough info here if he reads all of our replies.

Bob
====
"CBHvac" wrote in message
...
Unless its a water drain, and NOT an adjustment...
Hard to adjust JETS when they are FIXED.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Increases or decreases the gas jet. Richens or leans the fuel mix.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.org
.
.

"Buck Wheat" wrote in message
om...
What does the screw/adjustment at the bottom of the float bowl do?

Thanks.







  #13   Report Post  
Buck Wheat
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lawn Mower Idle Oscillates

Mine is the 12mm bolt w/gasket that unscrews. I've moved it around
and it does affect a change in the idle, but it does nothing about the
oscillation. I tend to think it is "hunting" and could believe the
carb is clogged.

My thought is that it was working, then I didn't use it for several
months and it was covered w/tarp, then I put a new battery in and it
would not start (it would start perfectly w/starter fluid, but when
fluid was gone it cut-out.) So

I took the bowl off and checked the gas lines and yes there was a lot
of "junk" in the bowl (and some each time I've cleaned it.) I have now
taken the bowl off and sprayed the entire system with carb-cleaner and
have not turned any screws. So I don't see how it can be anything
other than the bowl, and I have followed the advice of a poster about
the correct position, but it makes no difference, so it must be
clogged and/or a spring has failed.

I really did not want to remove this carb, it looks like a real bitch
because the screws are against the muffler and on and on...and I don't
want to screw up the linkage/springs. As I say, it does run when at
full throttle, but I'd rather have it running correctly at all speeds.

Thanks for the dialogue, I and others appreciate your responses.


"Bob M." wrote in message ...
I have seen two styles of water drains: spring-loaded types that you push up
with your finger and let stuff out, and an actual 12mm bolt with a gasket
that unscrews. Usually these are mounted off to the side of the bottom of
the bowl, not directly in the center, and it's hard to call them
adjustments. I'm pretty sure the original poster was referring to the
knurled screw and spring that screws up into the center bolt that also holds
the fuel bowl to the carburetor. This does go into the tube that feeds the
main jet, so if you stretch the previous poster's reply, he's got all the
words there to convey the message, but it could use just a few more. I
understood what he was saying, and it does indeed richen and lean the fuel
mixture once the throttle is off the idle position. I think the original
poster will find more than enough info here if he reads all of our replies.

Bob
====
"CBHvac" wrote in message
...
Unless its a water drain, and NOT an adjustment...
Hard to adjust JETS when they are FIXED.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Increases or decreases the gas jet. Richens or leans the fuel mix.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.org
.
.

"Buck Wheat" wrote in message
om...
What does the screw/adjustment at the bottom of the float bowl do?

Thanks.





  #14   Report Post  
Michael Baugh
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lawn Mower Idle Oscillates

On a completely different path, the reminder that a
tarp covering it forces moisture to be trapped, and
that can be even more of a problem as heat buildup
accelerates the deterioration process.
Ever consider just turning a plate upside down over
the rope-start portion?

Buck Wheat wrote in message
om...
Mine is the 12mm bolt w/gasket that unscrews. I've moved it around
and it does affect a change in the idle, but it does nothing about the
oscillation. I tend to think it is "hunting" and could believe the
carb is clogged.

My thought is that it was working, then I didn't use it for several
months and it was covered w/tarp, then I put a new battery in and it
would not start (it would start perfectly w/starter fluid, but when
fluid was gone it cut-out.) So

I took the bowl off and checked the gas lines and yes there was a lot
of "junk" in the bowl (and some each time I've cleaned it.) I have now
taken the bowl off and sprayed the entire system with carb-cleaner and
have not turned any screws. So I don't see how it can be anything
other than the bowl, and I have followed the advice of a poster about
the correct position, but it makes no difference, so it must be
clogged and/or a spring has failed.

I really did not want to remove this carb, it looks like a real bitch
because the screws are against the muffler and on and on...and I don't
want to screw up the linkage/springs. As I say, it does run when at
full throttle, but I'd rather have it running correctly at all speeds.

Thanks for the dialogue, I and others appreciate your responses.


"Bob M." wrote in message

...
I have seen two styles of water drains: spring-loaded types that you

push up
with your finger and let stuff out, and an actual 12mm bolt with a

gasket
that unscrews. Usually these are mounted off to the side of the bottom

of
the bowl, not directly in the center, and it's hard to call them
adjustments. I'm pretty sure the original poster was referring to the
knurled screw and spring that screws up into the center bolt that also

holds
the fuel bowl to the carburetor. This does go into the tube that feeds

the
main jet, so if you stretch the previous poster's reply, he's got all

the
words there to convey the message, but it could use just a few more. I
understood what he was saying, and it does indeed richen and lean the

fuel
mixture once the throttle is off the idle position. I think the original
poster will find more than enough info here if he reads all of our

replies.

Bob
====
"CBHvac" wrote in message
...
Unless its a water drain, and NOT an adjustment...
Hard to adjust JETS when they are FIXED.

"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
Increases or decreases the gas jet. Richens or leans the fuel mix.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.org
.
.

"Buck Wheat" wrote in message
om...
What does the screw/adjustment at the bottom of the float bowl do?

Thanks.








  #15   Report Post  
Bob M.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lawn Mower Idle Oscillates

I hope that you didn't leave any residue inside from the Q-tip. Usually a
toothbrush and some compressed air is all you should need.

There are several brands of carburetor cleaner available. One is CYCLO, but
go into an auto parts supply store and buy a can that has a nozzle extension
with it. After removing the carb, you can carefully drain all the gasoline
out of it and begin disassembly. Clean each part as you remove it. Use a
little bit of compressed air into each passage, in each direction, to make
sure things aren't clogged. There may be one or two ports with check-valves
in them to only allow fuel flow in one direction. Don't bend anything. Take
care to orient things back the way they were when you started, including the
mixture screws. All metal parts should be clean, shiny, and either aluminum
or brass colored. A rebuilding kit should show you how all the parts fit
together.

If you're really not mechanically inclined, you may be better off having a
reliable mower shop work on it. A new carb could cost $100.

Bob
====
"Buck Wheat" wrote in message
om...
Well, I did see a hole up in the center above the float and put a
cue-tip up it, I have not seen as of yet a hole at 45 degrees...but I
am working with a mirror, so I guess I'll just remove the carb, which
looks like it was put on with liquid gasket (crap) so I guess I'll
have to cut one or buy a new one, I'll take a digital picture of the
linkage before removing.

What do I clean the removed carb with? Should I just get a "rebuilt"
equivalent carb or just clean the thing with carb cleaner (already
done while mounted?) I'm just a little afraid of ****ing the whole
thing up by messing with the jets/screws...maybe I just use the "1.5
turn from tight" rule...funny I just heard my neighbor crank up his
mower...does the exact same thing.

I'm learning ASAP, thanks.

(Chip Stein) wrote in message

. com...
here's the answer again. i used to work on a couple hundred of these a
year.
a spring won't fix it. you have junk in the carb. the idle
feed
passage is clogged causing it to try and run off the main fuel
circuit. pull the bowl and clean thoroughly. up in the center of the
carb tube is a asmall passage running at a 45 degree angle towards the
top. this is where the restriction is. there are also 3 holes in the
lower bowl jet, one small one in between the 2 threaded areas. make
sure to get that one.
good luck
Chip





  #16   Report Post  
Bob M.
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lawn Mower Idle Oscillates

I hope that you didn't leave any residue inside from the Q-tip. Usually a
toothbrush and some compressed air is all you should need.

There are several brands of carburetor cleaner available. One is CYCLO, but
go into an auto parts supply store and buy a can that has a nozzle extension
with it. After removing the carb, you can carefully drain all the gasoline
out of it and begin disassembly. Clean each part as you remove it. Use a
little bit of compressed air into each passage, in each direction, to make
sure things aren't clogged. There may be one or two ports with check-valves
in them to only allow fuel flow in one direction. Don't bend anything. Take
care to orient things back the way they were when you started, including the
mixture screws. All metal parts should be clean, shiny, and either aluminum
or brass colored. A rebuilding kit should show you how all the parts fit
together.

If you're really not mechanically inclined, you may be better off having a
reliable mower shop work on it. A new carb could cost $100.

Bob
====
"Buck Wheat" wrote in message
om...
Well, I did see a hole up in the center above the float and put a
cue-tip up it, I have not seen as of yet a hole at 45 degrees...but I
am working with a mirror, so I guess I'll just remove the carb, which
looks like it was put on with liquid gasket (crap) so I guess I'll
have to cut one or buy a new one, I'll take a digital picture of the
linkage before removing.

What do I clean the removed carb with? Should I just get a "rebuilt"
equivalent carb or just clean the thing with carb cleaner (already
done while mounted?) I'm just a little afraid of ****ing the whole
thing up by messing with the jets/screws...maybe I just use the "1.5
turn from tight" rule...funny I just heard my neighbor crank up his
mower...does the exact same thing.

I'm learning ASAP, thanks.

(Chip Stein) wrote in message

. com...
here's the answer again. i used to work on a couple hundred of these a
year.
a spring won't fix it. you have junk in the carb. the idle
feed
passage is clogged causing it to try and run off the main fuel
circuit. pull the bowl and clean thoroughly. up in the center of the
carb tube is a asmall passage running at a 45 degree angle towards the
top. this is where the restriction is. there are also 3 holes in the
lower bowl jet, one small one in between the 2 threaded areas. make
sure to get that one.
good luck
Chip



  #17   Report Post  
Buck Wheat
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lawn Mower Idle Oscillates

Well, I did see a hole up in the center above the float and put a
cue-tip up it, I have not seen as of yet a hole at 45 degrees...but I
am working with a mirror, so I guess I'll just remove the carb, which
looks like it was put on with liquid gasket (crap) so I guess I'll
have to cut one or buy a new one, I'll take a digital picture of the
linkage before removing.

What do I clean the removed carb with? Should I just get a "rebuilt"
equivalent carb or just clean the thing with carb cleaner (already
done while mounted?) I'm just a little afraid of ****ing the whole
thing up by messing with the jets/screws...maybe I just use the "1.5
turn from tight" rule...funny I just heard my neighbor crank up his
mower...does the exact same thing.

I'm learning ASAP, thanks.

(Chip Stein) wrote in message . com...
here's the answer again. i used to work on a couple hundred of these a
year.
a spring won't fix it. you have junk in the carb. the idle
feed
passage is clogged causing it to try and run off the main fuel
circuit. pull the bowl and clean thoroughly. up in the center of the
carb tube is a asmall passage running at a 45 degree angle towards the
top. this is where the restriction is. there are also 3 holes in the
lower bowl jet, one small one in between the 2 threaded areas. make
sure to get that one.
good luck
Chip

  #18   Report Post  
Buck Wheat
 
Posts: n/a
Default Lawn Mower Idle Oscillates

Well, I did see a hole up in the center above the float and put a
cue-tip up it, I have not seen as of yet a hole at 45 degrees...but I
am working with a mirror, so I guess I'll just remove the carb, which
looks like it was put on with liquid gasket (crap) so I guess I'll
have to cut one or buy a new one, I'll take a digital picture of the
linkage before removing.

What do I clean the removed carb with? Should I just get a "rebuilt"
equivalent carb or just clean the thing with carb cleaner (already
done while mounted?) I'm just a little afraid of ****ing the whole
thing up by messing with the jets/screws...maybe I just use the "1.5
turn from tight" rule...funny I just heard my neighbor crank up his
mower...does the exact same thing.

I'm learning ASAP, thanks.

(Chip Stein) wrote in message . com...
here's the answer again. i used to work on a couple hundred of these a
year.
a spring won't fix it. you have junk in the carb. the idle
feed
passage is clogged causing it to try and run off the main fuel
circuit. pull the bowl and clean thoroughly. up in the center of the
carb tube is a asmall passage running at a 45 degree angle towards the
top. this is where the restriction is. there are also 3 holes in the
lower bowl jet, one small one in between the 2 threaded areas. make
sure to get that one.
good luck
Chip

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