Hi-

I am looking at a cordless Firestorm Drill - either the 12 or 14.4 V
models. (Yes, I'm aware of concerns about B&D reliability, but this
will be for light household project use (eg putting together a
sandbox)- probably once or twice/month - and the B&D factory store is
very convenient for me, whereas taking any other brand in for repair
would be very inconvenient). Also replacement batteries for B&D
models seem much more reasonable than other brands.

The 12 V model is lighter and is being offered in a great deal with a
laser level, but does not have the dual speed/torque range offered on
the 14.4 V model or the quick change chuck. I figure I can get a
quick change system to make up for the chuck, but obviously not the
speed range. I would appreciate comments on whether the low speed
range is worth the extra money for this kind of use. If I go for the
12 V model, will I regret not having the 0-400 rpm range for driving
screws?

Thanks for your help.

Michael Jasper

quoting:
I am looking at a cordless Firestorm Drill - either the 12 or 14.4 V
models. (Yes, I'm aware of concerns about B&D reliability, but this
will be for light household project use (eg putting together a
sandbox)- probably once or twice/month - and the B&D factory store is
very convenient for me, whereas taking any other brand in for repair
would be very inconvenient). Also replacement batteries for B&D
models seem much more reasonable than other brands.

http://www.toolup.com/productinfo.as...K-2&Man=Dewalt

Dewalt is serviced by D&B, btw.


The 12 V model is lighter and is being offered in a great deal with a
laser level, but does not have the dual speed/torque range offered on
the 14.4 V model or the quick change chuck. I figure I can get a
quick change system to make up for the chuck, but obviously not the
speed range. I would appreciate comments on whether the low speed
range is worth the extra money for this kind of use. If I go for the
12 V model, will I regret not having the 0-400 rpm range for driving
screws?


http://www.toolup.com/productinfo.as...K-2&Man=Dewalt


Dewalt 9.6v is somewhat more powerful than firestorm 12v.

Firestorm 18v = Dewalt 12v

Firestorm = more weight

MIchael Jasper wrote:

Hi-

I am looking at a cordless Firestorm Drill - either the 12 or 14.4 V
models. (Yes, I'm aware of concerns about B&D reliability, but this
will be for light household project use (eg putting together a
sandbox)- probably once or twice/month - and the B&D factory store is
very convenient for me, whereas taking any other brand in for repair
would be very inconvenient). Also replacement batteries for B&D
models seem much more reasonable than other brands.

The 12 V model is lighter and is being offered in a great deal with a
laser level, but does not have the dual speed/torque range offered on
the 14.4 V model or the quick change chuck. I figure I can get a
quick change system to make up for the chuck, but obviously not the
speed range. I would appreciate comments on whether the low speed
range is worth the extra money for this kind of use. If I go for the
12 V model, will I regret not having the 0-400 rpm range for driving
screws?

Thanks for your help.

Michael Jasper

i have sears, craftsman cordless drill and one with a cord.. when
drilling into metal i need the speed and have to use the one with a
cord.. i use the cordless when drilling into wood(as it does get up to
speed like the one with a cord) and for screwdriving... hope this helps.

"MIchael Jasper" wrote in message
om...
Hi-

I am looking at a cordless Firestorm Drill - either the 12 or 14.4 V
models. (Yes, I'm aware of concerns about B&D reliability, but this
will be for light household project use (eg putting together a
sandbox)- probably once or twice/month - and the B&D factory store is
very convenient for me, whereas taking any other brand in for repair
would be very inconvenient). Also replacement batteries for B&D
models seem much more reasonable than other brands.

I'd get the Dewalt 9.6v over either of the two drills you mentioned.

--Neil

If you only own one cordless drill/driver you would certainly lose out by
buying a single speed model made by ANYBODY. The low range is absolutely
necessary for many screwing tasks and convenient for all. Availability of
local repair service is generally not an issue with reasonably well
maintained modern electric power tools. Absent deliberate abuse, these
tools' useful life will probably long outlast the majority of their owners'
use for them.

For what it's worth, I own the following electric power tools (as many as I
can remember sitting here at the computer):

7 1/4" Ryobi circular saw (Industrial rated framer's saw from 1984)
8" Makita portable contractor's table saw
Makita reciprocating saw
Makita 3 hp 1/2" router
DeWalt 5" 18v trim saw
Craftsman 10" radial arm saw
Craftsman 1 1/2hp 1/4" router
14 gallon ShopVac
Bosch jig saw
Delta Rockwell 10" bandsaw mfg. in 1938. Like new on custom legset.
Makita 9.6v 3/8" VSR driver/drill
Makita 7.2v 3/8" drill
Ryobi 3x24 belt sander
Rigid 12" thickness planer
Ryobi detail biscuit jointer
Bosch reciprocating trim saw
WorkForce 7" sliding table wet saw
DeWalt 1/2" 18v VSR drill
DeWalt 3/8" corded VSR drill
Ryobi 10" benchtop drill press
Millers Falls 1/2" industrial hex-shafted hammer drill (a monster)
DeWalt 5" heavy duty angle grinder
Craftsman 3hp 4 gallon compressor (to drive framing, trim, brad and staple
guns)

I'm sure there are a few others...I guess what my point is, is that if you
have an interest in fixing things yourself, buy what you need when you need
it and you'll always have it. I'm 50 years old and some of these tools I've
owned many, many years.

BTW, laser levels or any other on-tool "alignment guides" are generally
worthless. Wear good eye protection (hearing protection too) and physically
observe directly where your cutting tool is working and you'll be much more
accurate. Trust me on this.


"jim evans" wrote:

I am looking at a cordless Firestorm Drill - either the 12 or 14.4 V
models. (Yes, I'm aware of concerns about B&D reliability, but this
will be for light household project use (eg putting together a
sandbox)- probably once or twice/month - and the B&D factory store is
very convenient for me, whereas taking any other brand in for repair
would be very inconvenient). Also replacement batteries for B&D
models seem much more reasonable than other brands.

The 12 V model is lighter and is being offered in a great deal with a
laser level, but does not have the dual speed/torque range offered on
the 14.4 V model or the quick change chuck. I figure I can get a
quick change system to make up for the chuck, but obviously not the
speed range. I would appreciate comments on whether the low speed
range is worth the extra money for this kind of use. If I go for the
12 V model, will I regret not having the 0-400 rpm range for driving
screws?

In my opinion the low speed is a must for driving screws. It's hard
to keep the bit from jumping out of the slot/socket at high speed. I
could make do with the slower drilling if it only had low speed, but
not the other way round. Just my opinion.

jim
___
Have a home upkeep question? Try my help page.
It's sort of an alt.home.repair FAQ.
http://www.factsfacts.com/MyHomeRepair

"Tim Davis" wrote in message news:%5nTa.111551$GL4.29241@rwcrnsc53...
If you only own one cordless drill/driver you would certainly lose out by
buying a single speed model made by ANYBODY. The low range is absolutely
necessary for many screwing tasks and convenient for all. Availability of
local repair service is generally not an issue with reasonably well
maintained modern electric power tools. Absent deliberate abuse, these
tools' useful life will probably long outlast the majority of their owners'
use for them.



I agree with Tim. Don't buy a piece of junk. Why settle for anything
less than variable speed, not just two speed? You can drive a screw at
high speed if you are careful, but variable speed makes for fewer
slips. If you're just making sandboxes maybe it doesn't matter.

"Neil Williams" wrote in message news:EsmTa.20351$

I'd get the Dewalt 9.6v over either of the two drills you mentioned.

--Neil

Thanks Neil (and others). Would you get the 9.6 DeWalt over say a
14.4 Ryobi? I just spoke to the guy at local Home Depot, who said he
wouldn't recommend any 9.6volt, even for household use. (Of course,
he doesn't carry the 9.6 Dewalt, which could have something to do with
it).

How are the Ryobi models?

Thanks,
Michael

In article (MIchael Jasper) writes:
Thanks Neil (and others). Would you get the 9.6 DeWalt over say a
14.4 Ryobi? I just spoke to the guy at local Home Depot, who said he
wouldn't recommend any 9.6volt, even for household use.

I have a Ryobi (12V), a DeWalt (18V) and a Bosch (18V). And I've
had others in the past.

The Ryobis are pretty decent "mid-grade" drivers. They don't have the
serious industrial-grade construction of the Dewalt or Bosch, but they
are several good steps above the homeowners Black and Decker crap.

I use the Ryobi for smaller work, where control and precision is more
important than raw power. Like putting doors on cabinets, 2" screws,
things like that. The only thing I don't like about it is the chuck.
It never seems to tighten down enough for drill bits to stay in place.
Balancing it out is a clutch that works flawlessly over a wide range.

The Dewalt or Bosch will outpower the Ryobi hands down (like driving lag
screws into 6x6 pressure treated posts). Of course, 18V is better than 12.
But still, the feel of them is much heavier duty.

--


Andrew L. Duane (JOT-7)
HP/Compaq Corporation
110 Spit Brook Road
M/S ZKO3-3/U14
Nashua, NH 03062-2698 (603)-884-1294

"Tim Fischer" wrote in message

I happen to like Ryobi's performance/price ratio. I'd recommend the 14.4V
Ryobi -- it will give you much more torque but still perform reliably, at
least for homeowner use.

and it doesn't always make sense to pay 2-3X or more for a
contractor grade tool when I'm not a contractor.

-Tim

Agree with this. You can go bigger, heavier, more powerful, but it is not
needed by most homeowners and DIY guys. If I was punching holes in 2 x 4's
all day, you can bet that I'd have an 18v or 24v Bosch, PC or Milwaukee.
Most times I'm drilling a half dozen holes or driving a dozen screws and
don't touch the tool for a few days. I'm very happy with the 14.4 Ryobi.
Good power to weight ratio.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

I am looking at a cordless Firestorm Drill - either the 12 or 14.4 V
models.

Before I spent money on a Firestorm, I'd buy a 12 or 14 V Craftsman which has
2 speeds. The quality of them will not be any worse than Firestorm which is
about the bottom of the barrel in my opinion, no offense to those who have
them, and they are single speed I believe. $9 gets you 2 years no questions
asked replacement if it fails for any reason. 12 V - $59.95, 14 V $69.95.

(danged Chinese junk)

Walt Conner

I am looking at a cordless Firestorm Drill - either the 12 or 14.4 V
models.

Before I spent money on a Firestorm, I'd buy a 12 or 14 V Craftsman which has
2 speeds. The quality of them will not be any worse than Firestorm which is
about the bottom of the barrel in my opinion, no offense to those who have
them, and they are single speed I believe. $9 gets you 2 years no questions
asked replacement if it fails for any reason. 12 V - $59.95, 14 V $69.95.

(danged Chinese junk)

Walt Conner

mike , you were sold on firestorm B&D so I did not want to bother
you, about better products,
there are different battery cells associated with drills and other
products, sub C are in firestorm ,, C in most else. SubC have
nearly same voltage but less amp and quick dropoff, whereas someone
stated 9.6 can = 12
its true, top manufacturers dont bs on ratings but some smaller ones
do by using sub C cells. You dont know till you do a side by side
test... I have a old and new 9.6 makita,,, and they work like most 12v
stuff.... point is ,,, the sum of ones parts are more important,
Horse Power or Volts dont equate to torque , or longlife , quality
gearing and mnfg does, you would be suprised how many drills have
plastic gears, and how few have metal,,, talk about reliability,
its a whole new game,,,basicly ,,, to make it simple for you, you get
what you pay for

mike , you were sold on firestorm B&D so I did not want to bother
you, about better products,
there are different battery cells associated with drills and other
products, sub C are in firestorm ,, C in most else. SubC have
nearly same voltage but less amp and quick dropoff, whereas someone
stated 9.6 can = 12
its true, top manufacturers dont bs on ratings but some smaller ones
do by using sub C cells. You dont know till you do a side by side
test... I have a old and new 9.6 makita,,, and they work like most 12v
stuff.... point is ,,, the sum of ones parts are more important,
Horse Power or Volts dont equate to torque , or longlife , quality
gearing and mnfg does, you would be suprised how many drills have
plastic gears, and how few have metal,,, talk about reliability,
its a whole new game,,,basicly ,,, to make it simple for you, you get
what you pay for

"MIchael Jasper" wrote in message
om...
Hi-

I am looking at a cordless Firestorm Drill - either the 12 or 14.4 V
models. (Yes, I'm aware of concerns about B&D reliability, but this
will be for light household project use (eg putting together a
sandbox)- probably once or twice/month - and the B&D factory store is
very convenient for me, whereas taking any other brand in for repair
would be very inconvenient). Also replacement batteries for B&D
models seem much more reasonable than other brands.

Black and Decker, is DeWalt....just for information...

Personally...having owned at least one of every major cordless drill out
there it seems, the two top brands, in my opinion, as someone that uses them
hard day in and day out, are Milwaukee and Makita. You will want to look for
dual range, with electric brake.
Plus...Milwaukee has that lifetime warranty on the drill itself..very nice..


The 12 V model is lighter and is being offered in a great deal with a
laser level, but does not have the dual speed/torque range offered on
the 14.4 V model or the quick change chuck. I figure I can get a
quick change system to make up for the chuck, but obviously not the
speed range. I would appreciate comments on whether the low speed
range is worth the extra money for this kind of use. If I go for the
12 V model, will I regret not having the 0-400 rpm range for driving
screws?

I pay on average, over $200 for ever drill we buy, and the answer is, yes,
its worth the extra you spend. Low speed, high torque settings are worth
every penny you spend on it, particularly when you need it, and didnt get
it.
14.4 would be the min I would buy...even for home use. We bought a 12V model
for around the house, and I am constantly getting either the 14.4 or the 18
volt models out to finish the job...not due to the battery or anything, for
speed, and power..
As far as a quick change chuck..all mine have that..its called a keyless
Jacobs..LOL..or other, as the Milwaukees do not use Jacobs chucks on the 18V
models...thankfully..


Thanks for your help.

Michael Jasper

"MIchael Jasper" wrote in message
om...
Hi-

I am looking at a cordless Firestorm Drill - either the 12 or 14.4 V
models. (Yes, I'm aware of concerns about B&D reliability, but this
will be for light household project use (eg putting together a
sandbox)- probably once or twice/month - and the B&D factory store is
very convenient for me, whereas taking any other brand in for repair
would be very inconvenient). Also replacement batteries for B&D
models seem much more reasonable than other brands.

Black and Decker, is DeWalt....just for information...

Personally...having owned at least one of every major cordless drill out
there it seems, the two top brands, in my opinion, as someone that uses them
hard day in and day out, are Milwaukee and Makita. You will want to look for
dual range, with electric brake.
Plus...Milwaukee has that lifetime warranty on the drill itself..very nice..


The 12 V model is lighter and is being offered in a great deal with a
laser level, but does not have the dual speed/torque range offered on
the 14.4 V model or the quick change chuck. I figure I can get a
quick change system to make up for the chuck, but obviously not the
speed range. I would appreciate comments on whether the low speed
range is worth the extra money for this kind of use. If I go for the
12 V model, will I regret not having the 0-400 rpm range for driving
screws?

I pay on average, over $200 for ever drill we buy, and the answer is, yes,
its worth the extra you spend. Low speed, high torque settings are worth
every penny you spend on it, particularly when you need it, and didnt get
it.
14.4 would be the min I would buy...even for home use. We bought a 12V model
for around the house, and I am constantly getting either the 14.4 or the 18
volt models out to finish the job...not due to the battery or anything, for
speed, and power..
As far as a quick change chuck..all mine have that..its called a keyless
Jacobs..LOL..or other, as the Milwaukees do not use Jacobs chucks on the 18V
models...thankfully..


Thanks for your help.

Michael Jasper

Agree with this. You can go bigger, heavier, more powerful, but it is not
needed by most homeowners and DIY guys. If I was punching holes in 2 x 4's
all day, you can bet that I'd have an 18v or 24v Bosch, PC or Milwaukee.
Most times I'm drilling a half dozen holes or driving a dozen screws and
don't touch the tool for a few days. I'm very happy with the 14.4 Ryobi.
Good power to weight ratio.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

================================================= =====================
I HATE (not really) Ryobi tools...BUT I would recommend that the original poster grab a 14 v Ryobi for household use... I own a couple of Milwaukee Cordless drills that I swear by...and a Dewalt that is just fine...BUT these are stored in my wood shop...

The drill I keep in the kitchen for quick fixes is in fact a 14 v Ryobi it is my no means a robust tool..but for occasional use it is a heck of a buy...
The repair issue is NOT important...."cheap" firestorm (and Ryobi) tools are disposable.... when you pay a few hundred dollars for a drill then you may think about the repair issue...otherwise it is faster,cheaper, and much easier just to do a 2 handed set shot from 3 point range into the trash can...then hop in the car and buy a new drill


Bob Griffiths

Agree with this. You can go bigger, heavier, more powerful, but it is not
needed by most homeowners and DIY guys. If I was punching holes in 2 x 4's
all day, you can bet that I'd have an 18v or 24v Bosch, PC or Milwaukee.
Most times I'm drilling a half dozen holes or driving a dozen screws and
don't touch the tool for a few days. I'm very happy with the 14.4 Ryobi.
Good power to weight ratio.
Ed

http://pages.cthome.net/edhome

================================================= =====================
I HATE (not really) Ryobi tools...BUT I would recommend that the original poster grab a 14 v Ryobi for household use... I own a couple of Milwaukee Cordless drills that I swear by...and a Dewalt that is just fine...BUT these are stored in my wood shop...

The drill I keep in the kitchen for quick fixes is in fact a 14 v Ryobi it is my no means a robust tool..but for occasional use it is a heck of a buy...
The repair issue is NOT important...."cheap" firestorm (and Ryobi) tools are disposable.... when you pay a few hundred dollars for a drill then you may think about the repair issue...otherwise it is faster,cheaper, and much easier just to do a 2 handed set shot from 3 point range into the trash can...then hop in the car and buy a new drill


Bob Griffiths

"Neil Williams" wrote in message news:EsmTa.20351$Ne.2521@fed1read03...


I'd get the Dewalt 9.6v over either of the two drills you mentioned.

--Neil

Okay - I am convinced to abandon Firestorm. Makita local availability
is not so great, and I need something ASAP. So -

I can get a Dewalt 9.6 V for $110 or a Dewalt 12 V for $130. I
definitely will not go higher than that.

GIven that the price is pretty close - it comes down to lower weight
or more power. 9.6v - 200 in-lb torque, 12 v - 300 in-lb.

Again - for general household use, 1 or 2x /month - what will I not be
able to do if I stick with the lighter 9.6 V?

THanks again for all your advice!

Michael

"Neil Williams" wrote in message news:EsmTa.20351$Ne.2521@fed1read03...


I'd get the Dewalt 9.6v over either of the two drills you mentioned.

--Neil

Okay - I am convinced to abandon Firestorm. Makita local availability
is not so great, and I need something ASAP. So -

I can get a Dewalt 9.6 V for $110 or a Dewalt 12 V for $130. I
definitely will not go higher than that.

GIven that the price is pretty close - it comes down to lower weight
or more power. 9.6v - 200 in-lb torque, 12 v - 300 in-lb.

Again - for general household use, 1 or 2x /month - what will I not be
able to do if I stick with the lighter 9.6 V?

THanks again for all your advice!

Michael

In alt.home.repair
jim evans wrote:

Last time I was in Sears they had the DeWalt 9v for $99. If you're a
Craftsman tool club member (it's free) you can get it for $90.

My sears appliance parts outlet had a ton of refurbed cordless drills on
sale 50% off this week. I got a limited edition Craftsman 18 volt with
hard case, fast charger, 2 batteries and a flashlight for $45. There were
lots of 14.4 and 16 volt models in the same price range. It works like a
champ.

In alt.home.repair
jim evans wrote:

Last time I was in Sears they had the DeWalt 9v for $99. If you're a
Craftsman tool club member (it's free) you can get it for $90.

My sears appliance parts outlet had a ton of refurbed cordless drills on
sale 50% off this week. I got a limited edition Craftsman 18 volt with
hard case, fast charger, 2 batteries and a flashlight for $45. There were
lots of 14.4 and 16 volt models in the same price range. It works like a
champ.

STUPID ****S BUY 10 HARBOR FOR 150 JKUNK A GARBAGE
EVERY DAY, IM A JUNK MAN I KNOW

STUPID ****S BUY 10 HARBOR FOR 150 JKUNK A GARBAGE
EVERY DAY, IM A JUNK MAN I KNOW