Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a disagreement. I would like
a ceramic tile, she's skeptical. Her biggest concerns a

Ease of cleanup -- specifically, spilled food or drink getting into the grout. I figure proper
sealing of the grout takes care of that, she's not sure.

Dropped dishes -- damage to the dishes, damage to the floor?

How easy is it on the feet, to stand on a ceramic tile floor while preparing a meal? (I'm the
primary cook, so I'm not sure why she's worried about that...)

On 10/17/2016 7:47 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a disagreement. I would like
a ceramic tile, she's skeptical. Her biggest concerns a

Ease of cleanup -- specifically, spilled food or drink getting into the grout. I figure proper
sealing of the grout takes care of that, she's not sure.

Dropped dishes -- damage to the dishes, damage to the floor?

How easy is it on the feet, to stand on a ceramic tile floor while preparing a meal? (I'm the
primary cook, so I'm not sure why she's worried about that...)


even on my wood floor in the kitchen, I use an anti-fatigue mat.

Doug Miller writes:
Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a disagreement. I would like
a ceramic tile, she's skeptical. Her biggest concerns a

Ease of cleanup -- specifically, spilled food or drink getting into the grout. I figure proper
sealing of the grout takes care of that, she's not sure.

Dropped dishes -- damage to the dishes, damage to the floor?


My parents used ceramic tile for the kitchen floor. They'd
never do it again, primarily due to its unforgiving nature.

Solid surface or stone make superior countertops.

On 10/17/2016 09:50 AM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 10/17/2016 7:47 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a
disagreement. I would like
a ceramic tile, she's skeptical. Her biggest concerns a

Ease of cleanup -- specifically, spilled food or drink getting into
the grout. I figure proper
sealing of the grout takes care of that, she's not sure.

Dropped dishes -- damage to the dishes, damage to the floor?

How easy is it on the feet, to stand on a ceramic tile floor while
preparing a meal? (I'm the
primary cook, so I'm not sure why she's worried about that...)


even on my wood floor in the kitchen, I use an anti-fatigue mat.



correct. a mat is a must.

I also would not go with a ceramic floor.

With even a little spilled liquid, it would be a real slipping hazard

On Mon, 17 Oct 2016 14:47:23 -0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a disagreement. I would like
a ceramic tile, she's skeptical. Her biggest concerns a

Ease of cleanup -- specifically, spilled food or drink getting into the grout. I figure proper
sealing of the grout takes care of that, she's not sure.

Dropped dishes -- damage to the dishes, damage to the floor?

How easy is it on the feet, to stand on a ceramic tile floor while preparing a meal? (I'm the
primary cook, so I'm not sure why she's worried about that...)

Consider using the larger sized, ADA certified slip-resistant,
porcelain tiles. The larger size tiles result in far fewer grout
lines, the porcelain wears like steel and the slip resistant surface
prevents falls due to moisture on the surface.

The material is hard, so if you have butter fingers, use floor mats in
the appropriate areas.

I would never use anything but porcelain in a kitchen or bath. After
having dealt with inferior coverings, I learned years ago to use a
timeless color / design and fix the floors one final time so I would
never need to deal with it again.

I have also installed quarry tile throughout the rest of the house as
we have lots of animals, children, grandchildren and great
grandchildren. It is wonderful having tile, as cleaning the house is
so much less tedious.

Doug Miller wrote:
Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a disagreement. I would like
a ceramic tile, she's skeptical. Her biggest concerns a

Ease of cleanup -- specifically, spilled food or drink getting into the grout. I figure proper
sealing of the grout takes care of that, she's not sure.

Dropped dishes -- damage to the dishes, damage to the floor?

How easy is it on the feet, to stand on a ceramic tile floor while preparing a meal? (I'm the
primary cook, so I'm not sure why she's worried about that...)

I guess every material has it pluses and minuses. I did my kitchen over
20 years ago with ceramic tile over a slab, and it still looks like new.
One suggestion I would give is use a darker grout rather than a light
one. Any dirt will not show as readily. I sealed the grout and I
cannot find any staining or dirt.

To me the effect on feet is not a problem, and if it was a mat or rug
would negate that. All in all, I am glad I did it with ceramic tile and
would do it again in a heartbeat. If done correctly and not rushed, it
will last a lifetime.

On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 10:47:46 AM UTC-4, Doug Miller wrote:
Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a disagreement. I would like
a ceramic tile, she's skeptical.

I've had ceramic tile kitchen floor for 30 years now.


Her biggest concerns a

Ease of cleanup -- specifically, spilled food or drink getting into the grout. I figure proper
sealing of the grout takes care of that, she's not sure.


No sealer was ever applied to one kitchen. The other IDK for
sure, but doubt it and if it was, it's long gone by now.
Cleaning is not a problem, just typical mopping is all that's
done. The grout is like concrete. I guess if you poured oil
into it or something you could have a problem, but normal
stuff, I haven't seen an issue. Grout also comes in various
colors, darker I guess is better.


Dropped dishes -- damage to the dishes, damage to the floor?


I have dropped some things that you think would break and they have
not. But it's definitely a lot more likely than if it's vinyl.
I have a couple cracked tiles, not sure they it's related to dropping
though. I've never dropped anything, looked and seen it cracked.
The cracking appears to be random and maybe due to not enough
mud under it.


How easy is it on the feet, to stand on a ceramic tile floor while preparing a meal? (I'm the
primary cook, so I'm not sure why she's worried about that...)

I have no problems, it fine with me. Modern shoes provide a buffer,
no?

On 10/17/2016 10:47 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a disagreement. I would like
a ceramic tile, she's skeptical. Her biggest concerns a

Ease of cleanup -- specifically, spilled food or drink getting into the grout. I figure proper
sealing of the grout takes care of that, she's not sure.

Dropped dishes -- damage to the dishes, damage to the floor?

How easy is it on the feet, to stand on a ceramic tile floor while preparing a meal? (I'm the
primary cook, so I'm not sure why she's worried about that...)


I would take her side of the argument.

On Mon, 17 Oct 2016 15:43:00 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:

Consider using the larger sized, ADA certified slip-resistant,
porcelain tiles. The larger size tiles result in far fewer grout
lines, the porcelain wears like steel and the slip resistant surface
prevents falls due to moisture on the surface.

+1 My kitchen is 16" x 24" scalloped edge porcelain tile. Sealed the
grout lines. Never slipped on it and use a soft mat at the sink.

On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 10:47:46 AM UTC-4, Doug Miller wrote:
Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a disagreement. I would like
a ceramic tile, she's skeptical. Her biggest concerns a

....snip...

How easy is it on the feet, to stand on a ceramic tile floor while preparing a meal? (I'm the
primary cook, so I'm not sure why she's worried about that...)

What do you usually wear in the kitchen? I'm a sock guy. Ceramic tile could
be cold and hard. Have you considered in floor heating if you think
cold will be an issue - especially as you age?

Doug Miller wrote:

Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a disagreement. I would like
a ceramic tile, she's skeptical. Her biggest concerns a

what does she want instead?


Ease of cleanup -- specifically, spilled food or drink getting into the grout. I figure proper
sealing of the grout takes care of that, she's not sure.

seal the whole thing several times.


i'd also put down a clear plastic matt in the
high traffic areas around the sink/counters,
kitchen table and fridge IMO.


Dropped dishes -- damage to the dishes, damage to the floor?

shatters glass really well. can damage
the floor if you have a poor install of any
kind. and once you get a broken tile the
patch job will stand out.


How easy is it on the feet, to stand on a ceramic tile floor while preparing a meal? (I'm the
primary cook, so I'm not sure why she's worried about that...)

i use a very thick rug to stand on and
that helps a lot, but you have to be
graceful enough to not trip on it...

i'd never do tile or wood flooring in a
kitchen (we have wood now and it is holding
up ok, but shows spots where we've dropped
things at times).

when i was a kid we had shag carpeting
in the kitchen. talk about gross...


songbird

On Mon, 17 Oct 2016 10:30:00 -0500, philo wrote:

On 10/17/2016 09:50 AM, Taxed and Spent wrote:
On 10/17/2016 7:47 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a
disagreement. I would like
a ceramic tile, she's skeptical. Her biggest concerns a

Ease of cleanup -- specifically, spilled food or drink getting into
the grout. I figure proper
sealing of the grout takes care of that, she's not sure.

Dropped dishes -- damage to the dishes, damage to the floor?

How easy is it on the feet, to stand on a ceramic tile floor while
preparing a meal? (I'm the
primary cook, so I'm not sure why she's worried about that...)


even on my wood floor in the kitchen, I use an anti-fatigue mat.



correct. a mat is a must.

I also would not go with a ceramic floor.

With even a little spilled liquid, it would be a real slipping hazard
Not a whoile lot worse than hardwood or vinyl. I would definitely
NOT use hardwood or laminate in a kitchen, except fot the stuff that
looks like tile or stone and is made specifically for use in kitchens,
bathrooms, and foyers. Normal laminate swells like crazy if it gets
wet.
Personally I would use a porcelain tile over a ceramic, any day of
the week. The difference in price is a small portion of the complete
job - and the quality is SO much superior.. That said, I have solid
vinyl sheet floring in my kitchen and downstairs bath, porcelain tile
in my foyer, and the bath and kitchen specific "laminate" tile product
in the upstairs bath. I have 14mm laminate in my basement
rec-room/office. and hardwood just about everywhere else (except for
stairways and upstairs hall) We have anti-slip mats in the kitchen,
upper bath, and foyer as well as at the sliding door from the deck to
the hardwood dining room.

On Mon, 17 Oct 2016 13:28:35 -0400, wrote:

With even a little spilled liquid, it would be a real slipping hazard

My parents had a ceramic tile bathroom floor. It was slippery as hell. I
was young at the time, and I fell a few times. But when my parents got
old, they fell several times, my mother broke her hip, and smashed her
head on the bathtub because of it. She ended up in the hospital. It was
very dangerous. These were small tiles about 1.5" each. I would never
recomment ceramic tile in a bathroom. Besides that, those tiles came
loose many times from water splashed over the tub and my dad was
constantly repairing that floor. After mom went to the hospital, and dad
was deceased, I went there and bought some indoor-outdoor carpet and
taped it down with two faced tape. She was very pleased when she got
home.


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"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. ..
Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a disagreement.
I would like
a ceramic tile, she's skeptical. Her biggest concerns a

Ease of cleanup -- specifically, spilled food or drink getting into the
grout. I figure proper
sealing of the grout takes care of that, she's not sure.

Grout is either plain Portland cement or Portlant cement + sand. (Yes, I
know there are epoxy grouts, never tried it, don't want to). Both are
porous, sealer mitigates that. However, sealer may not last forever; is
that a big deal? Certainly not if the tile is going on a slab, probably not
if on a wood subfloor. It can always be resealed.

Nothing is easier to clean up than a tile floor unless it is a tile floor
with light colored grout. IMO, IME, YMMV.
__________________

Dropped dishes -- damage to the dishes, damage to the floor?

The dish could break, the tile could chip.
___________________

How easy is it on the feet, to stand on a ceramic tile floor while
preparing a meal? (I'm the
primary cook, so I'm not sure why she's worried about that...)

The thing that kills feet is surface that is both hard AND flat. If a floor
is hard but less than flat it is much easier on feet. For example, I tiled
our hole house with Saltillo tile which is very irregular on the surface.
That irregularity means the pressure points on your feet are constantly
changing as you walk or even move slightly. Now, that irregularity is not
matched by any other tile I know of but some have a lesser irregularity.
____________________

Comments
Some have suggested using large tiles to minimize grout area. One could use
relatively wide joints too. Small tiles are easier to lay because they can
follow an irregular laying surface; bigger tiles - 16"+ - need a better
surface, more attention to spreading thinset evenly.

Some strongly favor porcelain tiles vs ceramic. There are two primary
differences...porcelain is color through (chips less apparent) and denser,
said density resulting in less water absorption which is why they are
recommended for wet areas (I don't consider a kitchen to be a "wet area).
They are not necessarily more slip resistant than glazed tiles as any tile
can be made slip resistant, all will have a coefficient of friction
available both when wet and when dry.

The down side of porcelain is that it is harder to cut (also pricier).. Use
a diamond wet saw? That will certainly cut it but every cut edge will have
chips (same for ceramic). I much prefer score and snap as it leaves a clean
edge and is faster; true, the edge will be sharp and will need to be honed a
bit but less so than needed to hone out chips.

More on ceramic vs porcelain...
http://homerenovations.about.com/od/...ile-Online.htm

On 10/17/2016 11:30 AM, philo wrote:

I also would not go with a ceramic floor.

With even a little spilled liquid, it would be a real slipping hazard

That depends on the finish. Gloss finish, yes, but plenty of others are
available.

On Mon, 17 Oct 2016 16:00:08 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 17 Oct 2016 13:28:35 -0400, wrote:

With even a little spilled liquid, it would be a real slipping hazard

My parents had a ceramic tile bathroom floor. It was slippery as hell. I
was young at the time, and I fell a few times. But when my parents got
old, they fell several times, my mother broke her hip, and smashed her
head on the bathtub because of it. She ended up in the hospital. It was
very dangerous. These were small tiles about 1.5" each. I would never
recomment ceramic tile in a bathroom. Besides that, those tiles came
loose many times from water splashed over the tub and my dad was
constantly repairing that floor. After mom went to the hospital, and dad
was deceased, I went there and bought some indoor-outdoor carpet and
taped it down with two faced tape. She was very pleased when she got
home.

You probably just did not get the right tile. The porcelain tile in
our bathroom has small bumps on it so it is not slippery when wet. You
don't really notice them until you run your fingers over the tile.
The Lea Acero tile in the living room, kitchen and most of the rest of
the house can get slippery when wet but we have rugs in the traffic
areas, particularly near the doors by the pool where you might come in
with wet feet.
This stuff is as hard as chinese algebra and things that fall on it
usually break but I have not lost a tile yet.

On 10/17/2016 4:23 PM, dadiOH wrote:


Grout is either plain Portland cement or Portlant cement + sand. (Yes, I
know there are epoxy grouts, never tried it, don't want to). Both are
porous, sealer mitigates that.

Why be afraid of epoxy? I used it in both bathrooms, walls and floor.
Easy to clean, no sealing. I'm going to use it in the kitchen too.

On 10/17/2016 10:47 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a disagreement. I would like
a ceramic tile, she's skeptical. Her biggest concerns a

Ease of cleanup -- specifically, spilled food or drink getting into the grout. I figure proper
sealing of the grout takes care of that, she's not sure.

Dropped dishes -- damage to the dishes, damage to the floor?

How easy is it on the feet, to stand on a ceramic tile floor while preparing a meal? (I'm the
primary cook, so I'm not sure why she's worried about that...)



I had ceramic in my last house and eventually will here too. Choose
wisely. Gloss finishes can be slippery when wet but there are other
finishes that are safe. My bathrooms are a matte finish and never had a
problem.

Do not go with a wide grout line as it is easier to clean a narrow one.
There are urethane grouts now but I have no experience with them. I used
epoxy grout and love it. No sealing, stays cleaner, very durable.

You may find it good to use a mat or rug in front of the sink. Actually
a good idea with any flooring.

As for cleaning, only thing we ever used is water and a sponge mop.
Made cleanup easy.

On Mon, 17 Oct 2016 16:23:55 -0400, "dadiOH" wrote:


"Doug Miller" wrote in message
...
Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a disagreement.
I would like
a ceramic tile, she's skeptical. Her biggest concerns a

Ease of cleanup -- specifically, spilled food or drink getting into the
grout. I figure proper
sealing of the grout takes care of that, she's not sure.

Grout is either plain Portland cement or Portlant cement + sand. (Yes, I
know there are epoxy grouts, never tried it, don't want to). Both are
porous, sealer mitigates that. However, sealer may not last forever; is
that a big deal? Certainly not if the tile is going on a slab, probably not
if on a wood subfloor. It can always be resealed.

Nothing is easier to clean up than a tile floor unless it is a tile floor
with light colored grout. IMO, IME, YMMV.
__________________

Dropped dishes -- damage to the dishes, damage to the floor?

The dish could break, the tile could chip.
___________________

How easy is it on the feet, to stand on a ceramic tile floor while
preparing a meal? (I'm the
primary cook, so I'm not sure why she's worried about that...)

The thing that kills feet is surface that is both hard AND flat. If a floor
is hard but less than flat it is much easier on feet. For example, I tiled
our hole house with Saltillo tile which is very irregular on the surface.
That irregularity means the pressure points on your feet are constantly
changing as you walk or even move slightly. Now, that irregularity is not
matched by any other tile I know of but some have a lesser irregularity.
____________________

Comments
Some have suggested using large tiles to minimize grout area. One could use
relatively wide joints too. Small tiles are easier to lay because they can
follow an irregular laying surface; bigger tiles - 16"+ - need a better
surface, more attention to spreading thinset evenly.

Some strongly favor porcelain tiles vs ceramic. There are two primary
differences...porcelain is color through (chips less apparent) and denser,
said density resulting in less water absorption which is why they are
recommended for wet areas (I don't consider a kitchen to be a "wet area).
They are not necessarily more slip resistant than glazed tiles as any tile
can be made slip resistant, all will have a coefficient of friction
available both when wet and when dry.

The down side of porcelain is that it is harder to cut (also pricier).. Use
a diamond wet saw? That will certainly cut it but every cut edge will have
chips (same for ceramic). I much prefer score and snap as it leaves a clean
edge and is faster; true, the edge will be sharp and will need to be honed a
bit but less so than needed to hone out chips.

More on ceramic vs porcelain...
http://homerenovations.about.com/od/...ile-Online.htm

I had no problem cutting my porcelain tile with the wet saw - with no
chips.. Just put a strip of good masking tape on the tile before
cutting..

On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 9:47:46 AM UTC-5, Doug Miller wrote:
Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a disagreement.. I would like
a ceramic tile, she's skeptical. Her biggest concerns a

Ease of cleanup -- specifically, spilled food or drink getting into the grout. I figure proper
sealing of the grout takes care of that, she's not sure.

Dropped dishes -- damage to the dishes, damage to the floor?

How easy is it on the feet, to stand on a ceramic tile floor while preparing a meal? (I'm the
primary cook, so I'm not sure why she's worried about that...)

Our kitchen has a black and white checkerboard ceramic tile with black grout. The black grout shows no stains whatsoever. There are a couple of small chips where things were dropped and my wife made them less visible with marker.

Be sure to not use glossy tile as it will be slippery. I've seen wall tile used on the floor and the smallest amount of liquid makes it like ice. Also, make sure your subfloor is solid or you'll find the grout or tiles cracking from the flexing.

If you use a sealer, use the penetrating type. It will have to be resealed periodically. I have a customer who used epoxy grout. Epoxy grout does not stain and is waterproof. However, it is difficult to work with and almost impossible to clean up from the tile surfaces after it hardens.

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Oct 2016 16:23:55 -0400, "dadiOH" wrote:


"Doug Miller" wrote in message
8...
Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a
disagreement.
I would like
a ceramic tile, she's skeptical. Her biggest concerns a

Ease of cleanup -- specifically, spilled food or drink getting into the
grout. I figure proper
sealing of the grout takes care of that, she's not sure.

Grout is either plain Portland cement or Portlant cement + sand. (Yes, I
know there are epoxy grouts, never tried it, don't want to). Both are
porous, sealer mitigates that. However, sealer may not last forever; is
that a big deal? Certainly not if the tile is going on a slab, probably
not
if on a wood subfloor. It can always be resealed.

Nothing is easier to clean up than a tile floor unless it is a tile floor
with light colored grout. IMO, IME, YMMV.
__________________

Dropped dishes -- damage to the dishes, damage to the floor?

The dish could break, the tile could chip.
___________________

How easy is it on the feet, to stand on a ceramic tile floor while
preparing a meal? (I'm the
primary cook, so I'm not sure why she's worried about that...)

The thing that kills feet is surface that is both hard AND flat. If a
floor
is hard but less than flat it is much easier on feet. For example, I
tiled
our hole house with Saltillo tile which is very irregular on the surface.
That irregularity means the pressure points on your feet are constantly
changing as you walk or even move slightly. Now, that irregularity is not
matched by any other tile I know of but some have a lesser irregularity.
____________________

Comments
Some have suggested using large tiles to minimize grout area. One could
use
relatively wide joints too. Small tiles are easier to lay because they
can
follow an irregular laying surface; bigger tiles - 16"+ - need a better
surface, more attention to spreading thinset evenly.

Some strongly favor porcelain tiles vs ceramic. There are two primary
differences...porcelain is color through (chips less apparent) and denser,
said density resulting in less water absorption which is why they are
recommended for wet areas (I don't consider a kitchen to be a "wet area).
They are not necessarily more slip resistant than glazed tiles as any tile
can be made slip resistant, all will have a coefficient of friction
available both when wet and when dry.

The down side of porcelain is that it is harder to cut (also pricier)..
Use
a diamond wet saw? That will certainly cut it but every cut edge will
have
chips (same for ceramic). I much prefer score and snap as it leaves a
clean
edge and is faster; true, the edge will be sharp and will need to be honed
a
bit but less so than needed to hone out chips.

More on ceramic vs porcelain...
http://homerenovations.about.com/od/...ile-Online.htm

I had no problem cutting my porcelain tile with the wet saw - with no
chips.. Just put a strip of good masking tape on the tile before
cutting..

Maybe I used the wrong word. What I am talking about are actually "tooth"
marks from the diamonds sparsely attached on both sides of the blade's rim.
Masking tape can help on the bottom side of whatever being cut on a table
saw because it reinforces the area where the blade exits but I can't see it
doing anything for tile when the chips are at the blade's entrance.

On 10/17/2016 7:47 AM, Doug Miller wrote:
Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a disagreement. I would like
a ceramic tile, she's skeptical. Her biggest concerns a

Ease of cleanup -- specifically, spilled food or drink getting into the grout. I figure proper
sealing of the grout takes care of that, she's not sure.

Dropped dishes -- damage to the dishes, damage to the floor?

How easy is it on the feet, to stand on a ceramic tile floor while preparing a meal? (I'm the
primary cook, so I'm not sure why she's worried about that...)


Oh stfu!

wrote:
....
I had no problem cutting my porcelain tile with the wet saw - with no
chips.. Just put a strip of good masking tape on the tile before
cutting..

if you lay the floor out right your cuts should be
along edges where the base goes. usually won't even
see or notice them.


songbird

On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 07:25:54 -0400, "dadiOH" wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 17 Oct 2016 16:23:55 -0400, "dadiOH" wrote:


"Doug Miller" wrote in message
. 88...
Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a
disagreement.
I would like
a ceramic tile, she's skeptical. Her biggest concerns a

Ease of cleanup -- specifically, spilled food or drink getting into the
grout. I figure proper
sealing of the grout takes care of that, she's not sure.

Grout is either plain Portland cement or Portlant cement + sand. (Yes, I
know there are epoxy grouts, never tried it, don't want to). Both are
porous, sealer mitigates that. However, sealer may not last forever; is
that a big deal? Certainly not if the tile is going on a slab, probably
not
if on a wood subfloor. It can always be resealed.

Nothing is easier to clean up than a tile floor unless it is a tile floor
with light colored grout. IMO, IME, YMMV.
__________________

Dropped dishes -- damage to the dishes, damage to the floor?

The dish could break, the tile could chip.
___________________

How easy is it on the feet, to stand on a ceramic tile floor while
preparing a meal? (I'm the
primary cook, so I'm not sure why she's worried about that...)

The thing that kills feet is surface that is both hard AND flat. If a
floor
is hard but less than flat it is much easier on feet. For example, I
tiled
our hole house with Saltillo tile which is very irregular on the surface.
That irregularity means the pressure points on your feet are constantly
changing as you walk or even move slightly. Now, that irregularity is not
matched by any other tile I know of but some have a lesser irregularity.
____________________

Comments
Some have suggested using large tiles to minimize grout area. One could
use
relatively wide joints too. Small tiles are easier to lay because they
can
follow an irregular laying surface; bigger tiles - 16"+ - need a better
surface, more attention to spreading thinset evenly.

Some strongly favor porcelain tiles vs ceramic. There are two primary
differences...porcelain is color through (chips less apparent) and denser,
said density resulting in less water absorption which is why they are
recommended for wet areas (I don't consider a kitchen to be a "wet area).
They are not necessarily more slip resistant than glazed tiles as any tile
can be made slip resistant, all will have a coefficient of friction
available both when wet and when dry.

The down side of porcelain is that it is harder to cut (also pricier)..
Use
a diamond wet saw? That will certainly cut it but every cut edge will
have
chips (same for ceramic). I much prefer score and snap as it leaves a
clean
edge and is faster; true, the edge will be sharp and will need to be honed
a
bit but less so than needed to hone out chips.

More on ceramic vs porcelain...
http://homerenovations.about.com/od/...ile-Online.htm

I had no problem cutting my porcelain tile with the wet saw - with no
chips.. Just put a strip of good masking tape on the tile before
cutting..

Maybe I used the wrong word. What I am talking about are actually "tooth"
marks from the diamonds sparsely attached on both sides of the blade's rim.
Masking tape can help on the bottom side of whatever being cut on a table
saw because it reinforces the area where the blade exits but I can't see it
doing anything for tile when the chips are at the blade's entrance.


The proper way to cut porcelain tile is to use a wet saw with an adjustable, fresh, diamond blade. First you
make a shallow cut, about 1/8" into the face, then you adjust the blade for a deeper cut and cut the through
the tile.

If you rush it or use an inferior blade or saw, you will chip the tile.

This article describes the process nicely.

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/cut-por...ing-42250.html

IMHO, the lifetime benefits of porcelain far outweigh the minimal extra effort required to install the tile.

On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 14:41:25 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:


The proper way to cut porcelain tile is to use a wet saw with an adjustable, fresh, diamond blade. First you
make a shallow cut, about 1/8" into the face, then you adjust the blade for a deeper cut and cut the through
the tile.

If you rush it or use an inferior blade or saw, you will chip the tile.

This article describes the process nicely.

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/cut-por...ing-42250.html


All "diamond" blades are not created equally. Cheap blades do not have
a lot of diamond on them in the first place.

IMHO, the lifetime benefits of porcelain far outweigh the minimal extra effort required to install the tile.

Agreed. We have a lot of tile here and porcelain is better.

my comments on tile in the kitchen

most anything you drop will break
feels cold on bare or stocking feet in the winter
its a lot of weight on the joists and they may sag

m

wrote:
my comments on tile in the kitchen

most anything you drop will break

This I can agree with .

feels cold on bare or stocking feet in the winter

Maybe .

its a lot of weight on the joists and they may sag

This is total bull**** . If you have sagging joists there are other
problems besides the weight of the tile .
--
Snag

On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 07:25:54 -0400, "dadiOH" wrote:



Maybe I used the wrong word. What I am talking about are actually "tooth"
marks from the diamonds sparsely attached on both sides of the blade's rim.
Masking tape can help on the bottom side of whatever being cut on a table
saw because it reinforces the area where the blade exits but I can't see it
doing anything for tile when the chips are at the blade's entrance.

You might not be able to see it making a difference but it does. Try
it. Water resistant or water proof making tape is best. Duct tape
might work too.

On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 14:41:25 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:



The proper way to cut porcelain tile is to use a wet saw with an adjustable, fresh, diamond blade. First you
make a shallow cut, about 1/8" into the face, then you adjust the blade for a deeper cut and cut the through
the tile.

If you rush it or use an inferior blade or saw, you will chip the tile.

This article describes the process nicely.

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/cut-por...ing-42250.html

IMHO, the lifetime benefits of porcelain far outweigh the minimal extra effort required to install the tile.
+1

On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 17:24:10 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 14:41:25 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:



The proper way to cut porcelain tile is to use a wet saw with an adjustable, fresh, diamond blade. First you
make a shallow cut, about 1/8" into the face, then you adjust the blade for a deeper cut and cut the through
the tile.

If you rush it or use an inferior blade or saw, you will chip the tile.

This article describes the process nicely.

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/cut-por...ing-42250.html

IMHO, the lifetime benefits of porcelain far outweigh the minimal extra effort required to install the tile.
+1

It's a shame the OP vanished from the thread after the initial post. Maybe he was just pulling everyone's
leg.......

On Wed, 19 Oct 2016 02:03:32 -0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

songbird wrote in
:

Doug Miller wrote:

Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a
disagreement. I would like a ceramic tile, she's skeptical. Her
biggest concerns a

what does she want instead?

Sheet linoleum...

SHIEEEEETTTTT MOFOCO !!!!!!!!!

Stormin' Norman wrote in
:

On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 17:24:10 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 18 Oct 2016 14:41:25 +0000, Stormin' Norman
wrote:



The proper way to cut porcelain tile is to use a wet saw with
an adjustable, fresh, diamond blade. First you make a shallow
cut, about 1/8" into the face, then you adjust the blade for a
deeper cut and cut the through the tile.

If you rush it or use an inferior blade or saw, you will chip
the tile.

This article describes the process nicely.

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/cut-por...ile-chipping-4
2250.html

IMHO, the lifetime benefits of porcelain far outweigh the
minimal extra effort required to install the tile.
+1

It's a shame the OP vanished from the thread after the initial
post. Maybe he was just pulling everyone's leg.......

No, just away from home for a while, without the computer.

Thanks to all who responded. I'm going to do my best to talk her into a tile floor. I know
about non-slip tiles; personally, I wouldn't use any tile on a kitchen floor that I wouldn't use
on a bathroom floor -- it's just as easy to spill water on a kitchen floor as on a bathroom
floor. I'm not sure why she's concerned about fatigue, when I do 80% or more of the cooking.
As for damage to -- or caused by -- dropped dishes, well, don't drop them, right?

(Scott Lurndal) wrote in :

Doug Miller writes:
Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a disagreement. I would
like
a ceramic tile, she's skeptical. Her biggest concerns a

Ease of cleanup -- specifically, spilled food or drink getting into the grout. I figure proper
sealing of the grout takes care of that, she's not sure.

Dropped dishes -- damage to the dishes, damage to the floor?


My parents used ceramic tile for the kitchen floor. They'd
never do it again, primarily due to its unforgiving nature.

Can you be more specific?

songbird wrote in
:

Doug Miller wrote:

Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a
disagreement. I would like a ceramic tile, she's skeptical. Her
biggest concerns a

what does she want instead?

Sheet linoleum...

On Wed, 19 Oct 2016 02:03:32 -0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

songbird wrote in
:

Doug Miller wrote:

Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a
disagreement. I would like a ceramic tile, she's skeptical. Her
biggest concerns a

what does she want instead?

Sheet linoleum...

Our kitchen has sheet vinyl and it looks as good as it did when we
bought the house 20 years ago. It's pretty thick stuff, and tough.
I put some cheap vinyl in my previous house, and found out it easily
nicked. No nicks in my current kitchen.
My bathroom has porcelain tile. I used to think porcelain tile was
the cat's meow, and still like it a Florida house - everywhere.
But as long as you have quality work done, it all comes to personal
preference. Don't worry about it.

Doug Miller writes:
(Scott Lurndal) wrote in :

Doug Miller writes:
Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a disagreement. I would
like
a ceramic tile, she's skeptical. Her biggest concerns a

Ease of cleanup -- specifically, spilled food or drink getting into the grout. I figure proper
sealing of the grout takes care of that, she's not sure.

Dropped dishes -- damage to the dishes, damage to the floor?


My parents used ceramic tile for the kitchen floor. They'd
never do it again, primarily due to its unforgiving nature.

Can you be more specific?

They're getting long in the tooth, and tend to drop things
more frequently then they used to. Where a drop on vinyl,
linoleum or engineered flooring won't generally cause
breakage, their experience has been that tile almost always
does cause breakage.

On Wed, 19 Oct 2016 02:03:32 -0000 (UTC), Doug Miller wrote:

songbird wrote in
:

Doug Miller wrote:

Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a
disagreement. I would like a ceramic tile, she's skeptical. Her
biggest concerns a

what does she want instead?

Sheet linoleum...

Linoleum is a rare product these days, it has mostly been replaced by sheet PVC. Inlaid linoleum was very
tough except it was very flammable. It was originally developed for the US Navy for the interior decks of
warships. After the attack on Pearl Harbor, the Navy ordered it removed from surface combatants because of
the inflammability of the product. Surprisingly, it continued to be used in submarines until after the war.

Your wife is likely thinking about sheet vinyl flooring or PVC. In my humble opinion, vinyl flooring looks
very cheap and I have experienced it being torn by moving a refrigerator and by replacing a dishwasher.

Tile, on the other hand, can increase the value and salability of your home and it is fireproof. If the
hardness of the product is a concern, simply purchase a couple of anti-fatigue mats for the most used areas,
e.g. cooktops, sinks, etc. See: http://amzn.to/2dqnAAU

I am in my mid 90's and am not allowed to discuss the age of my wife, but neither of us get fatigued when
working in the kitchen. We very rarely break anything in the kitchen, I would estimate we break one glass a
year.

All that said, if you can't demonstrate the logic of tile to your wife, I would suggest you just do what she
wants and let her own it, maybe you can get out of washing the floors.......

In alt.home.repair, on Mon, 17 Oct 2016 14:47:23 -0000 (UTC), Doug
Miller wrote:

Kitchen remodeling is coming up soon, and SWMBO and I have a disagreement. I would like
a ceramic tile, she's skeptical. Her biggest concerns a

Ease of cleanup -- specifically, spilled food or drink getting into the grout. I figure proper
sealing of the grout takes care of that, she's not sure.

Don't you have to seal the grout periodically? What a pain!

Dropped dishes -- damage to the dishes, damage to the floor?

That's what stops me. China will break and cast iron or maybe even
lighter stuff will break the tile.

How easy is it on the feet, to stand on a ceramic tile floor while preparing a meal? (I'm the
primary cook, so I'm not sure why she's worried about that...)

Because she's the secondary cook? And will be, primary if you ever
retire, get sick, or are overthrown?

This house came with vinyl linoleum (not really linoleum), one piece as
wide as the room. Water doesn't penetrate it. I dropped quite a few
things on it, including glasses iirc and only 1 thing ever broke, iirc.
If the stuff were more expensive it might be even bouncier.

It looked great until I bought 2 kitchen chairs with wheels. They
rolled out the top layer, with the pattern, like a rolling pin rolls out
a pie crust. Did more damage in 6 months than the previous 6 years
(which had done none).

So I looked for vinyl linoleum with the color and pattern going all the
way through. Like Congoleum, but the don't make that anymore. (In
1960 they mailed us a sample in the form of a circle. Must have been a
good plan because 40 years later, Iwanted to buy some.) It's too stiff
to roll up so iirc, storage, transporting, and installing are all more
difficult. But there are sheet products better than what I had. I
forget if any will withstand chairs with wheels (moving while someone is
sitting in them) and I don't know if you have any.

That leaves 9 and 12" vinyl or something or other tiles. They sound
like a good idea.