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Old October 1st 16, 02:33 AM posted to alt.checkmate,alt.flame,alt.home.repair,alt.usenet.kooks
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Default Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?

In article ,
says...



On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 21:59:36 -0000 (UTC), Nadegda wrote:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 09:17:18 -0700, Checkmate, DoW #1 wrote:
In article ,
says...
On 9/28/2016 6:18 PM, TomR wrote:
A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my
house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin
hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I
agree that, to me,
they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look"
better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is
that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question
and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical
outlets.

My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him
that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside
down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin
on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection.

Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down"
and the other way is the "correct" orientation?

This is a question I tackled, successfully, years ago, here at Sunset
Chateau.
The neutral pin on the top is a safety precaution all us expert
electrical types know about and perform on a routine basis. The
purpose of such arrangement is to prevent a short should, for example,
someone drop a metal object on partially exposed pins.

May the Eye of Horus be which you.

You're partially correct. The ground pin is not known as a neutral pin.
The flat blade that's currently made wider than the other flat blade is
the neutral. While both of them are grounded, the neutral is intended
to carry current, and the ground only carries current in the event of a
fault. It is safer to have the ground on top for the reason you
mentioned, but I know of nothing in the NEC that dictates which way you
mount them, unless it's a recent change.

This was one of my main complaints with electrical inspectors, back when
I had to deal with them. Sometimes they make **** up and claim it's a
code violation, when it isn't. We had an old saying: "Those who can,
do. Those who can't, inspect".


Expect Fakey along any hour now to embarrass himself by proving his
fathomless ignorance of all things electrical engineering. Again.


The FVNWe needs to come along and straighten out Checkmate's
display of electrical ignorance.

Poor Checkmate claims the neutral pin/wire carries the current.

Duh, doesn't he know there needs to be a circuit before any
current may be carried. Thus it needs the neutral and the
hot to carry the current. It doesn't need the ground. This
is why one can snip off the ground pin on a power tool so
it can be plugged into a two-slot outlet.

HTH


You're ignorant enough, without going out of your way to appear more so.
Of course the power flows between the neutral side and the hot side.
Most novices refer to grounds and neutrals as if they were the same
thing, because both are grounded. They're not the same thing for the
reason that I so eloquently stated. Now go butter up your butt and
paddle your little dong dinghy to shore for some Friday night fag
****ing.

--

Checkmate, Royal Order of the DoW #1, and Official Ko0K Wrangler
AUK Hammer of Thor award, Feb. 2012 (Pre-Burnore)
Destroyer of the AUK Ko0k Vote (Post-Burnore)
Originator of the "Dance for me" (tm) lame
Copyright 2016
all rights reserved

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Old October 1st 16, 02:42 AM posted to alt.checkmate,alt.flame,alt.home.repair,alt.usenet.kooks
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Default Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?

On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 18:33:25 -0700, "Checkmate, DoW #1" wrote:


You're ignorant enough, without going out of your way to appear more so.
Of course the power flows between the neutral side and the hot side.
Most novices refer to grounds and neutrals as if they were the same
thing, because both are grounded. They're not the same thing for the
reason that I so eloquently stated. Now go butter up your butt and
paddle your little dong dinghy to shore for some Friday night fag
****ing.


Oh damn! Didn't you promise to stop by the boat tonight for
that?

--

Sir Gregory Hall, Esq.

"It is my learned opinion that a man
should not mince words just to spare
the sensibilities of the thin-skinned
or the ignorant."
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Old October 1st 16, 02:49 AM posted to alt.checkmate,alt.flame,alt.home.repair,alt.usenet.kooks
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Default Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?

On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 18:46:06 -0700, "Checkmate, DoW #1" wrote:

In article ,
says...
On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 18:33:25 -0700, "Checkmate, DoW #1" wrote:

You're ignorant enough, without going out of your way to appear more so.
Of course the power flows between the neutral side and the hot side.
Most novices refer to grounds and neutrals as if they were the same
thing, because both are grounded. They're not the same thing for the
reason that I so eloquently stated. Now go butter up your butt and
paddle your little dong dinghy to shore for some Friday night fag
****ing.


Oh damn! Didn't you promise to stop by the boat tonight for
that?


I wouldn't stop by if your bote was parked across the street.


I'm thinking of putting it on a trailer and driving to
Washington state where I can park it on a certain vacant
lot in Yachats. LOL.

--

Sir Gregory Hall, Esq.

"It is my learned opinion that a man
should not mince words just to spare
the sensibilities of the thin-skinned
or the ignorant."
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Old October 1st 16, 08:27 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?

On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 11:21:41 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 21:18:13 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were
"upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and
the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look"
like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the
ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National
Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right
or wrong orientation for electrical outlets.

My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that
electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and
that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to
pass the electrical inspection.

Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the
other way is the "correct" orientation?


Short answer, No. There is no rule about how they are mounted and
there is even a school of thought that ground up is better. Something
falling between the plug and the wall would hit the ground.

Typically when a receptacle is different than the rest, it is
switched.


U.S. Army Corps of Engineers wanted the ground pin up on the construction sites where I worked. There was a concern about an extension cord plug being partially pulled out of the wall and someone dropping a suspended ceiling tie wire and it hitting the wall, sliding down and landing on the exposed prongs. I've seen it happen on other job sites where the ground pin was down and the plug was pulled out a bit. There were some sparks until the breaker kicked and a good plug was ruined. Me and my fellow electricians repaired a lot of extension cords for the other trades like carpenters who sawed their cords in half. If an electrical accident can happen, it often does on a construction site. Most are minor like those with damaged extension cords but tragically there are those rare occasions when some idiot gets in contact with a live 4160 line. o_O

Here in Birmingham, the electrical inspectors want the ground pin up but in the next city over, the inspectors don't care about the sexual orientation of an electrical outlet. If you look at right angle dryer cords, the ground pin is at what I think of as the top end of the plug. Coat hangers can be good electrical conductors. ^_^

https://www.amazon.com/Certified-App.../dp/B00009W3PA

https://www.amazon.com/Certified-App.../dp/B0014KO11O

[8~{} Uncle Grounded Monster
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Old October 1st 16, 09:13 AM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?

On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 5:55:24 AM UTC-5, Diesel wrote:

news 04:44:33 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote:

Any inspector who wont pass someone's wiring because of the
mounting direction of outlets is an idiot. I'd like to see that
one taken in front of a board of electricians. It's not code, so
it cant be enforced either way.


If local code exists specifying ground pin up in a specific location,
it's to be ground pin up. Just because NEC doesn't care one way or
another doesn't mean you'll have power connected because you chose to
violate local code. You'll **** off the inspector, they'll be a real
hardass when they come to inspect you for the second time.

Until you pass inspection, your jobsite doesn't go farther than temp
power and, as the name implies, it's temporary power. Keep ****ing
around, you won't even have temp power on the jobsite. Nobody will
like you then.

Word may get around that you're a troublemaker, too. Until your work
passes their inspection, the power company isn't going to hook up
permanent power. Having the reputation as a troublemaker and one who
holds up job sites can put you out of business. Nobody wants to deal
with a self righteous asshat who costs them more time and money.

Arguing with an electrical inspector is like wrestling with a pig in
the mud. Sooner or later, you'll realize, the pig is enjoying it.
--


Rule #1 in the electricians handbook: Never argue with the electrical inspector. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Agreeable Monster
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Old October 1st 16, 12:43 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?

On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 10:56:30 AM UTC-5, FromTheRafters wrote:
HerHusband was thinking very hard :

and quoted someone without attribution.

I think they look stupid when they are upside down (ground on top). I
put them with ground on bottom because thats what I'm used to and what
looks best.


and then added

I agree, but I suppose that's due to the way we recognize faces in humans
and most animals. We are accustomed to seeing two eyes on top and a mouth
below. So we tend to see faces even in inanimate objects. When the ground
is placed on top, it just instinctively looks "wrong". At least that's my
theory...

Does that cloud look like an electrical outlet?


LOL

As an aside, one of the purported reasons I read for the ground-up
orientation was that children see a face and try to feed it a nice meal
of paperclips. I'm not entirely convinced of that myself, but there it
is. Two other reasons which made sense were that pictures mounted on
walls with metal wires, and the metal escutcheons on the receptacles
themselves are the perceived hazards.

Apparently none of those were compelling enough for NEC to jump on
board.

[...]


If the screw holding a metal outlet cover comes loose, the cover can fall onto the hot and neutral as a plug is removed or is partially unplugged. Whenever I installed receptacles, I install them ground up for a vertical installation and neutral up for a horizontal installation. That's the way I've done it, you can do it your way. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Outlet Monster
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Old October 1st 16, 01:01 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?

On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 8:57:58 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

This was discussed recently. Some inspectors want the pin up. The
reason is that in an office a paper clip fell and hit the prongs of a
plug that was not pushed in fully. Pin up would not let it short.
IIRC, national code does not mention it.


I've seen a short-circuit twice from metal getting behind the plug. One *was* caused by it being "prong up", a hospital bed was *raised* and came between the wall and 2 prongs. The other was a pull chain that was too long and hitting the hot wire. In the 2nd case up or down would have made no difference.
I can see why there is no code.
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Old October 1st 16, 01:26 PM posted to alt.home.repair
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Default Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?

On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 12:57:00 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 13:47:40 -0400, FromTheRafters
wrote:

TimR formulated the question :
It has never made sense to me that the probability of something conductive
landing on the blades was high enough to be detectable. Of course it's not
that hard to do it however the inspector wants.

One problem with that is reading a KilloWatt meter.

European outlets don't have that problem. The pins are insulated halfway
such that the tips don't make contact until they're completely inside.
Ground is top AND bottom IIRC, and pins side by side.

I think the real issue, not yet mentioned, is that a child can plug in a cord
with his/her fingers on the blade. That is FAR more likely than dropping a
paperclip on it.


Oh yeah, that one too, but not just for children. The idea that the
thumb on top might contact the hot blade when plugging or unplugging.

Many possible reasons, but none compelling enough for NEC to mandate.


New Zealand may have a better idea on plugs and receptacles
The plugs have handles on them and the receptacle has a switch so you
can plug things in and turn them on after they are plugged in.
The switch is upside down by our standard tho.

http://gfretwell.com/ftp/New%20Zeala...plug%20cap.jpg


Heck those folks are in the opposite hemisphere where everything is upside down. They even drive on the wrong side of the road! o_O

[8~{} Uncle Upside Monster


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