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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Saturday, October 1, 2016 at 7:02:25 AM UTC-5, bob_villa wrote:
On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 8:57:58 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote: This was discussed recently. Some inspectors want the pin up. The reason is that in an office a paper clip fell and hit the prongs of a plug that was not pushed in fully. Pin up would not let it short. IIRC, national code does not mention it. I've seen a short-circuit twice from metal getting behind the plug. One *was* caused by it being "prong up", a hospital bed was *raised* and came between the wall and 2 prongs. The other was a pull chain that was too long and hitting the hot wire. In the 2nd case up or down would have made no difference. I can see why there is no code. ....if I wasn't clear on this, "prong up" meant "ground prong up". |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
Derby Day wrote: I haven't. My hedge trimmer doesn't have it's own cord, just a plug built into a recessed area of the handle. The socket end of an extension cord connects directly to that plug and is held in by a molded hook. Now ask me about cutting the *extension cord* with my hedge trimmer I have the same type of trimmer, and several various length extension cords to use depending on how far from the house I have to go. I just checked, at least one of my 5 extension cords does not have a band of tape where I nicked/cut it. Of course, that is over 40+ years of use so I guess it is not too bad. |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 12:13:49 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Derby Day wrote: I haven't. My hedge trimmer doesn't have it's own cord, just a plug built into a recessed area of the handle. The socket end of an extension cord connects directly to that plug and is held in by a molded hook. Now ask me about cutting the *extension cord* with my hedge trimmer I have the same type of trimmer, and several various length extension cords to use depending on how far from the house I have to go. I just checked, at least one of my 5 extension cords does not have a band of tape where I nicked/cut it. Of course, that is over 40+ years of use so I guess it is not too bad. Several of my extension cords are not as long as when I bought them. |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 3:19:26 PM UTC-4, TimR wrote:
On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 12:13:49 PM UTC-4, wrote: Derby Day wrote: I haven't. My hedge trimmer doesn't have it's own cord, just a plug built into a recessed area of the handle. The socket end of an extension cord connects directly to that plug and is held in by a molded hook. Now ask me about cutting the *extension cord* with my hedge trimmer I have the same type of trimmer, and several various length extension cords to use depending on how far from the house I have to go. I just checked, at least one of my 5 extension cords does not have a band of tape where I nicked/cut it. Of course, that is over 40+ years of use so I guess it is not too bad. Several of my extension cords are not as long as when I bought them. Many years ago my (then) teenage son got hired by a well-to-do family friend to help him clean out his garage. When I went to pick him I saw a 50' 12g extension cord - on a reel - on top of the trash pile. It looked almost brand new, so I grabbed it and tossed it in the car. When I got home I found that the cord had been cut about 6' from one end. It was held together just by a piece of the outer jacket. I bought a plug and socket and turned it into a 6' cord and a 44' cord. It's 15 years later and I still use both of them. I remember explaining to my son what happens when you have more money than you know what to do with. |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Mon, 3 Oct 2016 12:19:06 -0700 (PDT), TimR
wrote: Several of my extension cords are not as long as when I bought them. If you add up the length of the pieces does it come up the same as the new length? |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On 10/3/2016 9:27 AM, TimR wrote:
It was silent for a second then someone from a far corner of the build site called out "He cut the cord." The echo chant now changed from "Don't cut the cord!" to "He cut the cord.", "He cut the cord.". The timing was perfect and we ending up laughing so hard it hurt. Cousin I-Cut-The-Cord Monster Is there anyone here who has NOT cut the cord of his hedge trimmer? Define cut. Clear through? Nope, never did that. Lets not get into details such as cutting through the insulation and other meaningless trivial facts. |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
Ed Pawlowski 8:26 PM (1 hour ago) On 10/3/2016 9:27 AM, TimR wrote: It was silent for a second then someone from a far corner of the build site called out "He cut the cord." The echo chant now changed from "Don't cut the cord!" to "He cut the cord.", "He cut the cord.". The timing was perfect and we ending up laughing so hard it hurt. Cousin I-Cut-The-Cord Monster Is there anyone here who has NOT cut the cord of his hedge trimmer? Define cut. Clear through? Nope, never did that. Lets not get into details such as cutting through the insulation and other meaningless trivial facts. You don't have to cut clean thru to have a problem, just severing one of the two/three conductors will stop things pretty effectively. I have been known to repair that type of failure by inserting a bare copper wire a couple of inches long into the two cut ends to reestablish conductivity for that conductor, and then taping over the whole thing. That works fine as long as the insulation over the unsevered conductor(s) is/are intact, and the cord is not flexed too much. |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 13:43:15 -0500, Mark Lloyd wrote:
That's something I do. Sometimes, I've even changed it in public places. Unlike a lot of people, my idea of "looks best" depends on practical things, not silly rules. If you plug something into the top outlet (of a vertically mounted) duplex receptacle, the cord hangs down across the bottom outlet making it harder to use. I'm not sure if I EVER thought it looked best to use the top. Just wrap electrical tape around the hot terminal on all plugs! |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 9:18:14 PM UTC-4, TomR wrote:
A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? homes in florida often have outlets in the same home orientated both ways ground pin down for always on, ground pin up for switched outlets |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
homes in florida often have outlets in the same home orientated both ways ground pin down for always on, ground pin up for switched That's interesting, but I never heard of it 60+ years ago when I worked for an electrician during high school and college in Florida. (Of course, back then most wiring outlets were just hot and neutral. 3-prong outlets were for industrial use.) |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
In ,
bob haller typed: On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 9:18:14 PM UTC-4, TomR wrote: A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? homes in florida often have outlets in the same home orientated both ways ground pin down for always on, ground pin up for switched outlets I wonder why that would be the criteria for ground pin up vs. down. |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Wed, 5 Oct 2016 10:28:37 -0400, "TomR" wrote:
In , bob haller typed: On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 9:18:14 PM UTC-4, TomR wrote: A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? homes in florida often have outlets in the same home orientated both ways ground pin down for always on, ground pin up for switched outlets I wonder why that would be the criteria for ground pin up vs. down. It is just done as a way to identify switched outlets. On a "half hot" the bottom one is switched. |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
In article ,
bob haller wrote: On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 9:18:14 PM UTC-4, TomR wrote: A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? homes in florida often have outlets in the same home orientated both ways ground pin down for always on, ground pin up for switched outlets I have two switched outlets. One has ground pin down with the switch on top. Left is off, right is on. The other is horizontal. The switch is on the left, outlet on the right so ground pin is to the right. Down is off, up is on. The outlet for my washing machine was installed when my house was renovated 15 years ago. The ground pin was up, but the power cord plugged in "upside down". I eventually got tired of looking at the cord folding over and rotated the outlet. All of the other outlets were installed with the ground pin down. This includes the separately switched garbage disposal outlet under the sink. Fred in Florida |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
bob haller:
Understand the reasoning behind it, but I think it would make sense the other way round: Always on: Ground pin up Switched: pin down. |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On 04 Oct 2016, bob haller wrote in
alt.home.repair: homes in florida often have outlets in the same home orientated both ways ground pin down for always on, ground pin up for switched outlets That's the first good reason I've heard here for doing it one way over the other. I'm tempted to turn some of the outlets in my house around like that! |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Wed, 05 Oct 2016 15:18:40 -0400, Nil
wrote: ground pin down for always on, ground pin up for switched outlets That's the first good reason I've heard here for doing it one way over the other. I'm tempted to turn some of the outlets in my house around like that! Its been stated here many times, people keep wanting a citation to a code or to debate an inspector. My cave my rules :) |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
It happens that Oren formulated :
On Wed, 05 Oct 2016 15:18:40 -0400, Nil wrote: ground pin down for always on, ground pin up for switched outlets That's the first good reason I've heard here for doing it one way over the other. I'm tempted to turn some of the outlets in my house around like that! Its been stated here many times, people keep wanting a citation to a code or to debate an inspector. My cave my rules :) And if they want to come turn them upside down again by force, let 'em try - I still have a gun to defend my castle. :) Seems a lot like the old Lilliputian big endian little endian conflict. |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On 10/05/2016 02:00 PM, wrote:
bob haller: Understand the reasoning behind it, but I think it would make sense the other way round: Always on: Ground pin up Switched: pin down. Is there some reason for that, other than it would mean most of the receptacles would be ground-up. Also, how would you install a duplex receptacle where only one side is switched? -- 80 days until the winter celebration (Sunday December 25, 2016 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "The cosmos is interesting rather than perfect, and everything is not part of some greater plan, nor is all necessarily under control." [Starhawk] |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On 10/05/2016 03:27 PM, Neill Massello wrote:
[snip] To me, the whole ground on top thing smacks of safety theater. Exposed prongs are a safety hazard no matter what the plug's orientation. Putting the ground on top just makes is slightly harder to insert a plug into the outlet. Why would it be harder? Either way, you have to orient the plug in a certain way. I suspect it's just the "the way it is is best" fallacy. -- 80 days until the winter celebration (Sunday December 25, 2016 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "The cosmos is interesting rather than perfect, and everything is not part of some greater plan, nor is all necessarily under control." [Starhawk] |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thursday, October 6, 2016 at 10:18:00 AM UTC-4, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 10/05/2016 02:00 PM, wrote: bob haller: Understand the reasoning behind it, but I think it would make sense the other way round: Always on: Ground pin up Switched: pin down. Is there some reason for that, other than it would mean most of the receptacles would be ground-up. Also, how would you install a duplex receptacle where only one side is switched? You cut the tab between the 2 Hot screws and wire one with a switched hot wire and the other with an "always hot" wire (or another switched hot). Here is the basic concept for one switched receptacle, the actual physical wiring can vary. Note the missing connection between the 2 hot screws. The tab for the neutrals is left intact. http://www.electrical101.com/wpimage...ng-diagram.png |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thursday, October 6, 2016 at 10:18:00 AM UTC-4, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 10/05/2016 02:00 PM, wrote: bob haller: Understand the reasoning behind it, but I think it would make sense the other way round: Always on: Ground pin up Switched: pin down. Is there some reason for that, other than it would mean most of the receptacles would be ground-up. Also, how would you install a duplex receptacle where only one side is switched? P.S. I have a split/switched receptacle in my garage, but for a very strange reason. I inherited an old 19" TV from my Dad. The picture doesn't go off when you press the power button or use the remote. The sound goes off but the picture stays on. You have to kill the AC input to turn it off completely, so I split a duplex and added a switch. A one-time wiring job was easier than using the plug to turn it on and off every time. Here's the even stranger part: When you reapply the power, all you get is snow. You still have to press the power button or use the remote to *really* turn it on. |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thursday, October 6, 2016 at 10:18:00 AM UTC-4, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 10/05/2016 02:00 PM, wrote: bob haller: Understand the reasoning behind it, but I think it would make sense the other way round: Always on: Ground pin up Switched: pin down. Is there some reason for that, other than it would mean most of the receptacles would be ground-up. Following the only thing I've seen here cited as any reason for ground up, you'd want the ground up on the ones that are permanently on, because they are most likely to be energized and if a metal object drops onto partially inserted pins, it will hit the ground pin. Also, how would you install a duplex receptacle where only one side is switched? I'd do it with the top one live, because a lamp or similar could be plugged in below on the switched one, leaving the upper one easier to access. -- 80 days until the winter celebration (Sunday December 25, 2016 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "The cosmos is interesting rather than perfect, and everything is not part of some greater plan, nor is all necessarily under control." [Starhawk] |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
replying to Jes Doit, gdmellott wrote:
There is ah... not a mouse in my wall. -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...e-1110235-.htm |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
replying to gfretwell, gdmellott wrote:
Let's face it. There are parasitic loads ( both psychologically and substantively evidenced) what ever ways its oriented. -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...e-1110235-.htm |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
replying to hrhofmann, im2oldBob wrote:
In a textbook, Electric Wiring Residential 15th edition based on 2005 National Electrical Code by Ray C Mullen. ISBN1-4018-5019-. Mr. Mullen addresses the subject. Mr. Mullen' advocates, that while not a code requirement that the ground ( U blade) should be up for the reason that conductive items falling would encounter the ground first, or at least fall across either one of the conductors and the U blade if the conductor was positive then a shunt trip would occur. Note; this is not an exact quote. -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...e-1110235-.htm |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thu, 05 Apr 2018 22:14:01 GMT, im2oldBob
m wrote: replying to hrhofmann, im2oldBob wrote: In a textbook, Electric Wiring Residential 15th edition based on 2005 National Electrical Code by Ray C Mullen. ISBN1-4018-5019-. Mr. Mullen addresses the subject. Mr. Mullen' advocates, that while not a code requirement that the ground ( U blade) should be up for the reason that conductive items falling would encounter the ground first, or at least fall across either one of the conductors and the U blade if the conductor was positive then a shunt trip would occur. Note; this is not an exact quote. The only "book" that counts is the National Electrical Code and it is silent on the issue. If you look long enough you will find people arguing the opposite case. When a plug loosens and starts falling out, ground down assures the ground connection is the last to break. Neither are a significant enough reason to drive a code change. |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 08:20:30 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 4/5/2018 11:21 PM, wrote: The only "book" that counts is the National Electrical Code and it is silent on the issue. If you look long enough you will find people arguing the opposite case. When a plug loosens and starts falling out, ground down assures the ground connection is the last to break. Neither are a significant enough reason to drive a code change. Install them any way you like. The code allows both ways. I personally like the traditional way of putting the ground on the bottom. Wehn I moved into my house, I had 2 outlets with the ground on top. That drove me crazy. At least make them all the same in the same home. (I finally rotated those two). Depends on where you live. In the town where I worked, the inspector wanted them with pin up. Yeah, you can argue with him, we put them pin up. Another case of a prick throwing his weight around with nothing to back him up. Heshould be in the white house - - - |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
posted for all of us...
On Thu, 05 Apr 2018 20:00:12 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote: On Thu, 05 Apr 2018 19:01:51 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 05 Apr 2018 22:14:01 GMT, im2oldBob caedfaa9ed1216d60ef78a6f660f5f85_12712@example. com wrote: replying to hrhofmann, im2oldBob wrote: In a textbook, Electric Wiring Residential 15th edition based on 2005 National Electrical Code by Ray C Mullen. ISBN1-4018-5019-. Mr. Mullen addresses the subject. Mr. Mullen' advocates, that while not a code requirement that the ground ( U blade) should be up for the reason that conductive items falling would encounter the ground first, or at least fall across either one of the conductors and the U blade if the conductor was positive then a shunt trip would occur. Note; this is not an exact quote. The only "book" that counts is the National Electrical Code and it is silent on the issue. If you look long enough you will find people arguing the opposite case. When a plug loosens and starts falling out, ground down assures the ground connection is the last to break. Neither are a significant enough reason to drive a code change. This has been an item of discussion and dissagreement for several years. Traditionally american style 2 terminal (grounded) outlets have been installed ground down. There is also something of a tradition of "switched" outlets being installed ground side up. The ground down tradition has pretty well mandated that right angle plugs have the terminals oriented so that the cable, when plugged into the oputlet, runs DOWN the wall so gravity aids inkeeping the plug installed rather than trying to pull it out, as it cones off the top of the plug.. Non grounded polarized plugs are also trtaditionally installed with the large (neutral) blade on the left. Just install one of these and be done with it. https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/6C567_AS01?$mdmain$ Yeah, that's the ticket. Use this as your universal response for this never ending question. -- Tekkie |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 14:48:20 -0400, Tekkie® wrote:
posted for all of us... On Thu, 05 Apr 2018 20:00:12 -0400, Clare Snyder wrote: On Thu, 05 Apr 2018 19:01:51 -0400, wrote: On Thu, 05 Apr 2018 22:14:01 GMT, im2oldBob caedfaa9ed1216d60ef78a6f660f5f85_12712@example. com wrote: replying to hrhofmann, im2oldBob wrote: In a textbook, Electric Wiring Residential 15th edition based on 2005 National Electrical Code by Ray C Mullen. ISBN1-4018-5019-. Mr. Mullen addresses the subject. Mr. Mullen' advocates, that while not a code requirement that the ground ( U blade) should be up for the reason that conductive items falling would encounter the ground first, or at least fall across either one of the conductors and the U blade if the conductor was positive then a shunt trip would occur. Note; this is not an exact quote. The only "book" that counts is the National Electrical Code and it is silent on the issue. If you look long enough you will find people arguing the opposite case. When a plug loosens and starts falling out, ground down assures the ground connection is the last to break. Neither are a significant enough reason to drive a code change. This has been an item of discussion and dissagreement for several years. Traditionally american style 2 terminal (grounded) outlets have been installed ground down. There is also something of a tradition of "switched" outlets being installed ground side up. The ground down tradition has pretty well mandated that right angle plugs have the terminals oriented so that the cable, when plugged into the oputlet, runs DOWN the wall so gravity aids inkeeping the plug installed rather than trying to pull it out, as it cones off the top of the plug.. Non grounded polarized plugs are also trtaditionally installed with the large (neutral) blade on the left. Just install one of these and be done with it. https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/6C567_AS01?$mdmain$ Yeah, that's the ticket. Use this as your universal response for this never ending question. The first one I ever saw was from Jim Pawley (VP SqD) at an inspector seminar. It always gets a laugh and points out the silliness of the debate. |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 16:18:44 -0400, Ralph Mowery
wrote: In article , says... https://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/6C567_AS01?$mdmain$ Yeah, that's the ticket. Use this as your universal response for this never ending question. Sometimes I wish I had some like that. If you buy something with a plug where the cord comes out of the bottom/side or anything but the back of the plug. Just needs some at the 45 deg angle for an odd plug or two that I have. It is a hubbel part that you can get at any real electrical supplier or on line. It goes in a 1900 box and a ring is available. |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
replying to Clare Snyder, Barman wrote:
I had a case where the inspector insisted I rotate all the outlets so that ground was down, my argument was if I had the outlets mounted horizontally (eg. kitchen backsplash) what direction would he want the ground. -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...e-1110235-.htm |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Sat, 21 Apr 2018 18:44:04 GMT, Barman
m wrote: replying to Clare Snyder, Barman wrote: I had a case where the inspector insisted I rotate all the outlets so that ground was down, my argument was if I had the outlets mounted horizontally (eg. kitchen backsplash) what direction would he want the ground. If the inspector is that anal he'll want the ground to the left (neutral up) |
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