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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 13:33:38 -0500, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 09/28/2016 11:44 PM, wrote: [snip] I think they look stupid when they are upside down (ground on top). I put them with ground on bottom because thats what I'm used to and what looks best. "looks stupid" and "looks best" is probably only what you're used to. If they were usually ground up, it would be different. We are people of habit. When I plug in a grounded plug in the dark, I expect the ground on the bottom. I also expect light switches to go on when the switch is UP, hot water on the left faucet, and so on. I once moved into a house that had 2 side by side light switches mounted upside down. That drove me crazy, so I re-mounted them quickly. |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 16:31:30 -0400, "TomR" wrote:
In , typed: On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 15:07:13 -0400, "TomR" wrote: And, I sometimes thought it would be interesting if all outlets were designed so that there would be not "up" or "down" position. For example, if all duplex outlets had the ground pin of each outlet on each end and the other two prongs in the center, then there would be no "up" or "down" orientation -- the outlet would look the same regardless of which way it was installed. But, there would be problems with that idea because that would result it the hot side screw of one outlet being on the same side as the neutral side screw of the other outlet in the duplex. Like this http://www.legrand.us/~/media/produc...=0&h=181&w=181 Wow, interesting! Yes, like that! -- except maybe a duplex receptacle instead of a "quad". I found this info on the one you posted: SPECIFICATION GRADE QUAD RECEPTACLE, 415W , Pass & Seymour http://www.legrand.us/passandseymour...uads/415w.aspx I have also seen a duplex with them going up and down (ground on both ends) There is a quad out there with them in all 4 orientations too. |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
In ,
typed: On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 17:25:28 -0600, (Neill Massello) wrote: FromTheRafters wrote: Some equipment designed for hospitals and such might have cords with right-angle plugs on the end which expect the ground-up orientation. And every *consumer* right-angle or wall-hugging plug I've ever seen was designed for the ground pin on the bottom. Lots of them are the other way. It seems to depend on whether they think the appliance will mount above the plug. I agree. I see them both ways. |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
In ,
typed: On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 16:31:30 -0400, "TomR" wrote: In , typed: On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 15:07:13 -0400, "TomR" wrote: And, I sometimes thought it would be interesting if all outlets were designed so that there would be not "up" or "down" position. For example, if all duplex outlets had the ground pin of each outlet on each end and the other two prongs in the center, then there would be no "up" or "down" orientation -- the outlet would look the same regardless of which way it was installed. But, there would be problems with that idea because that would result it the hot side screw of one outlet being on the same side as the neutral side screw of the other outlet in the duplex. Like this http://www.legrand.us/~/media/produc...=0&h=181&w=181 Wow, interesting! Yes, like that! -- except maybe a duplex receptacle instead of a "quad". I found this info on the one you posted: SPECIFICATION GRADE QUAD RECEPTACLE, 415W , Pass & Seymour http://www.legrand.us/passandseymour...uads/415w.aspx I have also seen a duplex with them going up and down (ground on both ends) I have never seen one, but I would like to find one so I could check it out and see how they are constructed etc. There is a quad out there with them in all 4 orientations too. |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On 09/29/2016 06:25 PM, Neill Massello wrote:
[snip] And every *consumer* right-angle or wall-hugging plug I've ever seen was designed for the ground pin on the bottom. I have several of those adapters (converts duplex grounded outlet to 6), with the outlets on the sides. There seems to be nothing about them that would be better with one orientation (ground down or ground up) than the other. -- 86 days until the winter celebration (Sunday December 25, 2016 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is the probable reason so few engage in it." -- Henry Ford |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
TomR posted for all of us...
A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? Let us NOT go through this again, especially as this was brought up just last week. DAGS -- Tekkie |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On 09/30/2016 03:14 PM, Tekkie® wrote:
TomR posted for all of us... A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? Let us NOT go through this again, especially as this was brought up just last week. DAGS Yah, so much drama. After the inspection, switch them to any position you like. I guarantee it's faster to reorient the receptacles than to fight a bunch of brainless bureaucrats at city hall. |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 09:17:18 -0700, Checkmate, DoW #1 wrote:
In article , says... On 9/28/2016 6:18 PM, TomR wrote: A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? This is a question I tackled, successfully, years ago, here at Sunset Chateau. The neutral pin on the top is a safety precaution all us expert electrical types know about and perform on a routine basis. The purpose of such arrangement is to prevent a short should, for example, someone drop a metal object on partially exposed pins. May the Eye of Horus be which you. You're partially correct. The ground pin is not known as a neutral pin. The flat blade that's currently made wider than the other flat blade is the neutral. While both of them are grounded, the neutral is intended to carry current, and the ground only carries current in the event of a fault. It is safer to have the ground on top for the reason you mentioned, but I know of nothing in the NEC that dictates which way you mount them, unless it's a recent change. This was one of my main complaints with electrical inspectors, back when I had to deal with them. Sometimes they make **** up and claim it's a code violation, when it isn't. We had an old saying: "Those who can, do. Those who can't, inspect". Expect Fakey along any hour now to embarrass himself by proving his fathomless ignorance of all things electrical engineering. Again. -- Friendly Neighborhood Vote Wrangler Nadegda Fakey couldn't teach a monkey to eat a banana, much less answer a direct question posed to him. -- Fakey's Dogwhistle Holder |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 21:59:36 -0000 (UTC), Nadegda wrote:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 09:17:18 -0700, Checkmate, DoW #1 wrote: In article , says... On 9/28/2016 6:18 PM, TomR wrote: A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? This is a question I tackled, successfully, years ago, here at Sunset Chateau. The neutral pin on the top is a safety precaution all us expert electrical types know about and perform on a routine basis. The purpose of such arrangement is to prevent a short should, for example, someone drop a metal object on partially exposed pins. May the Eye of Horus be which you. You're partially correct. The ground pin is not known as a neutral pin. The flat blade that's currently made wider than the other flat blade is the neutral. While both of them are grounded, the neutral is intended to carry current, and the ground only carries current in the event of a fault. It is safer to have the ground on top for the reason you mentioned, but I know of nothing in the NEC that dictates which way you mount them, unless it's a recent change. This was one of my main complaints with electrical inspectors, back when I had to deal with them. Sometimes they make **** up and claim it's a code violation, when it isn't. We had an old saying: "Those who can, do. Those who can't, inspect". Expect Fakey along any hour now to embarrass himself by proving his fathomless ignorance of all things electrical engineering. Again. The FVNWe needs to come along and straighten out Checkmate's display of electrical ignorance. Poor Checkmate claims the neutral pin/wire carries the current. Duh, doesn't he know there needs to be a circuit before any current may be carried. Thus it needs the neutral and the hot to carry the current. It doesn't need the ground. This is why one can snip off the ground pin on a power tool so it can be plugged into a two-slot outlet. HTH -- Sir Gregory Hall, Esq. "It is my learned opinion that a man should not mince words just to spare the sensibilities of the thin-skinned or the ignorant." |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
In article ,
says... On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 21:59:36 -0000 (UTC), Nadegda wrote: On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 09:17:18 -0700, Checkmate, DoW #1 wrote: In article , says... On 9/28/2016 6:18 PM, TomR wrote: A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? This is a question I tackled, successfully, years ago, here at Sunset Chateau. The neutral pin on the top is a safety precaution all us expert electrical types know about and perform on a routine basis. The purpose of such arrangement is to prevent a short should, for example, someone drop a metal object on partially exposed pins. May the Eye of Horus be which you. You're partially correct. The ground pin is not known as a neutral pin. The flat blade that's currently made wider than the other flat blade is the neutral. While both of them are grounded, the neutral is intended to carry current, and the ground only carries current in the event of a fault. It is safer to have the ground on top for the reason you mentioned, but I know of nothing in the NEC that dictates which way you mount them, unless it's a recent change. This was one of my main complaints with electrical inspectors, back when I had to deal with them. Sometimes they make **** up and claim it's a code violation, when it isn't. We had an old saying: "Those who can, do. Those who can't, inspect". Expect Fakey along any hour now to embarrass himself by proving his fathomless ignorance of all things electrical engineering. Again. The FVNWe needs to come along and straighten out Checkmate's display of electrical ignorance. Poor Checkmate claims the neutral pin/wire carries the current. Duh, doesn't he know there needs to be a circuit before any current may be carried. Thus it needs the neutral and the hot to carry the current. It doesn't need the ground. This is why one can snip off the ground pin on a power tool so it can be plugged into a two-slot outlet. HTH You're ignorant enough, without going out of your way to appear more so. Of course the power flows between the neutral side and the hot side. Most novices refer to grounds and neutrals as if they were the same thing, because both are grounded. They're not the same thing for the reason that I so eloquently stated. Now go butter up your butt and paddle your little dong dinghy to shore for some Friday night fag ****ing. -- Checkmate, Royal Order of the DoW #1, and Official Ko0K Wrangler AUK Hammer of Thor award, Feb. 2012 (Pre-Burnore) Destroyer of the AUK Ko0k Vote (Post-Burnore) Originator of the "Dance for me" (tm) lame Copyright © 2016 all rights reserved |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 18:33:25 -0700, "Checkmate, DoW #1" wrote:
You're ignorant enough, without going out of your way to appear more so. Of course the power flows between the neutral side and the hot side. Most novices refer to grounds and neutrals as if they were the same thing, because both are grounded. They're not the same thing for the reason that I so eloquently stated. Now go butter up your butt and paddle your little dong dinghy to shore for some Friday night fag ****ing. Oh damn! Didn't you promise to stop by the boat tonight for that? -- Sir Gregory Hall, Esq. "It is my learned opinion that a man should not mince words just to spare the sensibilities of the thin-skinned or the ignorant." |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 18:46:06 -0700, "Checkmate, DoW #1" wrote:
In article , says... On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 18:33:25 -0700, "Checkmate, DoW #1" wrote: You're ignorant enough, without going out of your way to appear more so. Of course the power flows between the neutral side and the hot side. Most novices refer to grounds and neutrals as if they were the same thing, because both are grounded. They're not the same thing for the reason that I so eloquently stated. Now go butter up your butt and paddle your little dong dinghy to shore for some Friday night fag ****ing. Oh damn! Didn't you promise to stop by the boat tonight for that? I wouldn't stop by if your bote was parked across the street. I'm thinking of putting it on a trailer and driving to Washington state where I can park it on a certain vacant lot in Yachats. LOL. -- Sir Gregory Hall, Esq. "It is my learned opinion that a man should not mince words just to spare the sensibilities of the thin-skinned or the ignorant." |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 11:21:41 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Wed, 28 Sep 2016 21:18:13 -0400, "TomR" wrote: A friend of mine asked me today why the electrical outlets in my house were "upside down". They are positioned with the ground pin hole at the top and the two slots of the outlet on the bottom. I agree that, to me, they "look" like they are upside down, and I think they would "look" better with the ground pin hole on the bottom. But, my belief is that the National Electrical Code (NEC) is silent on this question and that there is no right or wrong orientation for electrical outlets. My friend said that he has had code enforcement officials tell him that electrical outlets with the ground pin hole on top were "upside down" and that they needed to be reversed to be with the ground pin on the bottom to pass the electrical inspection. Is there anything in the NEC that says that one way is "upside down" and the other way is the "correct" orientation? Short answer, No. There is no rule about how they are mounted and there is even a school of thought that ground up is better. Something falling between the plug and the wall would hit the ground. Typically when a receptacle is different than the rest, it is switched. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers wanted the ground pin up on the construction sites where I worked. There was a concern about an extension cord plug being partially pulled out of the wall and someone dropping a suspended ceiling tie wire and it hitting the wall, sliding down and landing on the exposed prongs. I've seen it happen on other job sites where the ground pin was down and the plug was pulled out a bit. There were some sparks until the breaker kicked and a good plug was ruined. Me and my fellow electricians repaired a lot of extension cords for the other trades like carpenters who sawed their cords in half. If an electrical accident can happen, it often does on a construction site. Most are minor like those with damaged extension cords but tragically there are those rare occasions when some idiot gets in contact with a live 4160 line. o_O Here in Birmingham, the electrical inspectors want the ground pin up but in the next city over, the inspectors don't care about the sexual orientation of an electrical outlet. If you look at right angle dryer cords, the ground pin is at what I think of as the top end of the plug. Coat hangers can be good electrical conductors. ^_^ https://www.amazon.com/Certified-App.../dp/B00009W3PA https://www.amazon.com/Certified-App.../dp/B0014KO11O [8~{} Uncle Grounded Monster |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 5:55:24 AM UTC-5, Diesel wrote:
Thu, 29 Sep 2016 04:44:33 GMT in alt.home.repair, wrote: Any inspector who wont pass someone's wiring because of the mounting direction of outlets is an idiot. I'd like to see that one taken in front of a board of electricians. It's not code, so it cant be enforced either way. If local code exists specifying ground pin up in a specific location, it's to be ground pin up. Just because NEC doesn't care one way or another doesn't mean you'll have power connected because you chose to violate local code. You'll **** off the inspector, they'll be a real hardass when they come to inspect you for the second time. Until you pass inspection, your jobsite doesn't go farther than temp power and, as the name implies, it's temporary power. Keep ****ing around, you won't even have temp power on the jobsite. Nobody will like you then. Word may get around that you're a troublemaker, too. Until your work passes their inspection, the power company isn't going to hook up permanent power. Having the reputation as a troublemaker and one who holds up job sites can put you out of business. Nobody wants to deal with a self righteous asshat who costs them more time and money. Arguing with an electrical inspector is like wrestling with a pig in the mud. Sooner or later, you'll realize, the pig is enjoying it. -- Rule #1 in the electricians handbook: Never argue with the electrical inspector. ^_^ [8~{} Uncle Agreeable Monster |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 10:56:30 AM UTC-5, FromTheRafters wrote:
HerHusband was thinking very hard : and quoted someone without attribution. I think they look stupid when they are upside down (ground on top). I put them with ground on bottom because thats what I'm used to and what looks best. and then added I agree, but I suppose that's due to the way we recognize faces in humans and most animals. We are accustomed to seeing two eyes on top and a mouth below. So we tend to see faces even in inanimate objects. When the ground is placed on top, it just instinctively looks "wrong". At least that's my theory... Does that cloud look like an electrical outlet? :) LOL As an aside, one of the purported reasons I read for the ground-up orientation was that children see a face and try to feed it a nice meal of paperclips. I'm not entirely convinced of that myself, but there it is. Two other reasons which made sense were that pictures mounted on walls with metal wires, and the metal escutcheons on the receptacles themselves are the perceived hazards. Apparently none of those were compelling enough for NEC to jump on board. [...] If the screw holding a metal outlet cover comes loose, the cover can fall onto the hot and neutral as a plug is removed or is partially unplugged. Whenever I installed receptacles, I install them ground up for a vertical installation and neutral up for a horizontal installation. That's the way I've done it, you can do it your way. ^_^ [8~{} Uncle Outlet Monster |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Wednesday, September 28, 2016 at 8:57:58 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
This was discussed recently. Some inspectors want the pin up. The reason is that in an office a paper clip fell and hit the prongs of a plug that was not pushed in fully. Pin up would not let it short. IIRC, national code does not mention it. I've seen a short-circuit twice from metal getting behind the plug. One *was* caused by it being "prong up", a hospital bed was *raised* and came between the wall and 2 prongs. The other was a pull chain that was too long and hitting the hot wire. In the 2nd case up or down would have made no difference. I can see why there is no code. |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 12:57:00 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 13:47:40 -0400, FromTheRafters wrote: TimR formulated the question : It has never made sense to me that the probability of something conductive landing on the blades was high enough to be detectable. Of course it's not that hard to do it however the inspector wants. One problem with that is reading a KilloWatt meter. European outlets don't have that problem. The pins are insulated halfway such that the tips don't make contact until they're completely inside. Ground is top AND bottom IIRC, and pins side by side. I think the real issue, not yet mentioned, is that a child can plug in a cord with his/her fingers on the blade. That is FAR more likely than dropping a paperclip on it. Oh yeah, that one too, but not just for children. The idea that the thumb on top might contact the hot blade when plugging or unplugging. Many possible reasons, but none compelling enough for NEC to mandate. New Zealand may have a better idea on plugs and receptacles The plugs have handles on them and the receptacle has a switch so you can plug things in and turn them on after they are plugged in. The switch is upside down by our standard tho. http://gfretwell.com/ftp/New%20Zeala...plug%20cap.jpg Heck those folks are in the opposite hemisphere where everything is upside down. They even drive on the wrong side of the road! o_O [8~{} Uncle Upside Monster |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On 10/01/2016 07:27 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
Me and my fellow electricians repaired a lot of extension cords for the other trades like carpenters who sawed their cords in half. Couple years ago my employer got fined by OSHA for having repaired extension cords on the premise. Now when a cord is damaged, both the plug and receptacle must be cut off immediately to prevent use. |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
Uncle Monster expressed precisely :
On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 10:56:30 AM UTC-5, FromTheRafters wrote: HerHusband was thinking very hard : and quoted someone without attribution. I think they look stupid when they are upside down (ground on top). I put them with ground on bottom because thats what I'm used to and what looks best. and then added I agree, but I suppose that's due to the way we recognize faces in humans and most animals. We are accustomed to seeing two eyes on top and a mouth below. So we tend to see faces even in inanimate objects. When the ground is placed on top, it just instinctively looks "wrong". At least that's my theory... Does that cloud look like an electrical outlet? :) LOL As an aside, one of the purported reasons I read for the ground-up orientation was that children see a face and try to feed it a nice meal of paperclips. I'm not entirely convinced of that myself, but there it is. Two other reasons which made sense were that pictures mounted on walls with metal wires, and the metal escutcheons on the receptacles themselves are the perceived hazards. Apparently none of those were compelling enough for NEC to jump on board. [...] If the screw holding a metal outlet cover comes loose, the cover can fall onto the hot and neutral as a plug is removed or is partially unplugged. Whenever I installed receptacles, I install them ground up for a vertical installation and neutral up for a horizontal installation. That's the way I've done it, you can do it your way. ^_^ [8~{} Uncle Outlet Monster One person's metallic receptacle escutcheon is another's metal outlet cover. They're both screwed if it is a shock hazard when becoming unscrewed. Bottom line, there is no NEC code and no proof yet of any local code mandating either orientation, and evidence of both can be found in the wild for plugs and receptacles. I suspect it is an inspector's prerogative to mess with installation people by saying "It's code". |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
Uncle Monster submitted this idea :
On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 12:57:00 PM UTC-5, wrote: On Thu, 29 Sep 2016 13:47:40 -0400, FromTheRafters wrote: TimR formulated the question : It has never made sense to me that the probability of something conductive landing on the blades was high enough to be detectable. Of course it's not that hard to do it however the inspector wants. One problem with that is reading a KilloWatt meter. European outlets don't have that problem. The pins are insulated halfway such that the tips don't make contact until they're completely inside. Ground is top AND bottom IIRC, and pins side by side. I think the real issue, not yet mentioned, is that a child can plug in a cord with his/her fingers on the blade. That is FAR more likely than dropping a paperclip on it. Oh yeah, that one too, but not just for children. The idea that the thumb on top might contact the hot blade when plugging or unplugging. Many possible reasons, but none compelling enough for NEC to mandate. New Zealand may have a better idea on plugs and receptacles The plugs have handles on them and the receptacle has a switch so you can plug things in and turn them on after they are plugged in. The switch is upside down by our standard tho. http://gfretwell.com/ftp/New%20Zeala...plug%20cap.jpg Heck those folks are in the opposite hemisphere where everything is upside down. They even drive on the wrong side of the road! o_O [8~{} Uncle Upside Monster http://www.kordking.com/products/pow...ight-angle.php |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
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Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Saturday, October 1, 2016 at 8:00:07 AM UTC-5, Mr. Safety wrote:
Mr. Safety says use a recessed receptacle: https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-689-W.../dp/B0012DKBL2 Good choice Mr. Safety, but often there isn't enough room in the box to use it! |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On 10/01/2016 01:32 PM, bob_villa wrote:
On Saturday, October 1, 2016 at 8:00:07 AM UTC-5, Mr. Safety wrote: Mr. Safety says use a recessed receptacle: https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-689-W.../dp/B0012DKBL2 Good choice Mr. Safety, but often there isn't enough room in the box to use it! When it comes to electrical safety, there are no 'short' cuts. Demo the wall and put in a bigger box. While you're at it, put in a new entrance panel with AFCIs. It's for the kids! |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Saturday, October 1, 2016 at 7:49:45 AM UTC-5, FromTheRafters wrote:
Uncle Monster expressed precisely : On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 10:56:30 AM UTC-5, FromTheRafters wrote: HerHusband was thinking very hard : and quoted someone without attribution. I think they look stupid when they are upside down (ground on top). I put them with ground on bottom because thats what I'm used to and what looks best. and then added I agree, but I suppose that's due to the way we recognize faces in humans and most animals. We are accustomed to seeing two eyes on top and a mouth below. So we tend to see faces even in inanimate objects. When the ground is placed on top, it just instinctively looks "wrong". At least that's my theory... Does that cloud look like an electrical outlet? :) LOL As an aside, one of the purported reasons I read for the ground-up orientation was that children see a face and try to feed it a nice meal of paperclips. I'm not entirely convinced of that myself, but there it is. Two other reasons which made sense were that pictures mounted on walls with metal wires, and the metal escutcheons on the receptacles themselves are the perceived hazards. Apparently none of those were compelling enough for NEC to jump on board. [...] If the screw holding a metal outlet cover comes loose, the cover can fall onto the hot and neutral as a plug is removed or is partially unplugged. Whenever I installed receptacles, I install them ground up for a vertical installation and neutral up for a horizontal installation. That's the way I've done it, you can do it your way. ^_^ [8~{} Uncle Outlet Monster One person's metallic receptacle escutcheon is another's metal outlet cover. They're both screwed if it is a shock hazard when becoming unscrewed. Bottom line, there is no NEC code and no proof yet of any local code mandating either orientation, and evidence of both can be found in the wild for plugs and receptacles. I suspect it is an inspector's prerogative to mess with installation people by saying "It's code". It is, the inspectors in Birmingham want the ground pin up but the next city over, the electrical inspector doesn't care about the sexual orientation of the outlet. Something to do with a Supreme Court decision. o_O [8~{} Uncle Plugged Monster |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Saturday, October 1, 2016 at 3:28:16 AM UTC-4, Uncle Monster wrote:
Me and my fellow electricians repaired a lot of extension cords for the other trades like carpenters who sawed their cords in half. If an electrical accident can happen, it often does on a construction site. Many years ago I spent 2 weeks in the woods, camping with a bunch of friends and helping a friend build a large cabin on his land. He had a generator so we had power tools. Sometime near the beginning of the build, someone told a story about someone else cutting the cord on a circular saw. "Don't cut the cord!" became sort of rallying cry for the trip. Very often, when someone turned off a circular saw, someone would yell out "Don't cut the cord!". The cry would echo from all over the build site, with various people yelling "Don't cut the cord!", then "Don't cut the cord!", one after another until it until it finally died out. On the last day that I was there, guess what I did? Yep, I put the saw down on the cord as the blade was still spinning and cut the cord. The generator made a weird noise and just about everyone heard the saw make a noise as the cord wrapped around the spindle. It was silent for a second then someone from a far corner of the build site called out "He cut the cord." The echo chant now changed from "Don't cut the cord!" to "He cut the cord.", "He cut the cord.". The timing was perfect and we ending up laughing so hard it hurt. Cousin I-Cut-The-Cord Monster |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
Mr. Safety explained :
Mr. Safety says use a recessed receptacle: https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-689-W.../dp/B0012DKBL2 Prevents 'wall warts' too. |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
Uncle Monster wrote :
On Saturday, October 1, 2016 at 7:49:45 AM UTC-5, FromTheRafters wrote: Uncle Monster expressed precisely : On Thursday, September 29, 2016 at 10:56:30 AM UTC-5, FromTheRafters wrote: HerHusband was thinking very hard : and quoted someone without attribution. I think they look stupid when they are upside down (ground on top). I put them with ground on bottom because thats what I'm used to and what looks best. and then added I agree, but I suppose that's due to the way we recognize faces in humans and most animals. We are accustomed to seeing two eyes on top and a mouth below. So we tend to see faces even in inanimate objects. When the ground is placed on top, it just instinctively looks "wrong". At least that's my theory... Does that cloud look like an electrical outlet? :) LOL As an aside, one of the purported reasons I read for the ground-up orientation was that children see a face and try to feed it a nice meal of paperclips. I'm not entirely convinced of that myself, but there it is. Two other reasons which made sense were that pictures mounted on walls with metal wires, and the metal escutcheons on the receptacles themselves are the perceived hazards. Apparently none of those were compelling enough for NEC to jump on board. [...] If the screw holding a metal outlet cover comes loose, the cover can fall onto the hot and neutral as a plug is removed or is partially unplugged. Whenever I installed receptacles, I install them ground up for a vertical installation and neutral up for a horizontal installation. That's the way I've done it, you can do it your way. ^_^ [8~{} Uncle Outlet Monster One person's metallic receptacle escutcheon is another's metal outlet cover. They're both screwed if it is a shock hazard when becoming unscrewed. Bottom line, there is no NEC code and no proof yet of any local code mandating either orientation, and evidence of both can be found in the wild for plugs and receptacles. I suspect it is an inspector's prerogative to mess with installation people by saying "It's code". It is, the inspectors in Birmingham want the ground pin up but the next city over, the electrical inspector doesn't care about the sexual orientation of the outlet. Something to do with a Supreme Court decision. o_O [8~{} Uncle Plugged Monster What about the mens rooms, do they have to have prongs sticking out of the walls so that they feel comfortable? |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
Mr. Safety says use a recessed receptacle:
https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-689-W...-Residential/d p/B0012DKBL2 Good choice Mr. Safety, but often there isn't enough room in the box to use it! Another option, albeit not real attractive, is to use a weatherproof outlet cover: https://www.amazon.com/MM410C-Weathe...or-Receptacle- Protector/dp/B001JEPX44/ref=sr_1_1 Plug the cord in, close the cover, and nothing it going to fall between the plug and the outlet, not even rain. I suppose you could paint the cover to match the wall. Perfect for those situations where you're constantly dropping pieces of metal on your electrical outlets. :) Anthony Watson www.watsondiy.com www.mountainsoftware.com |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Sat, 01 Oct 2016 11:12:28 -0400, FromTheRafters
wrote: Mr. Safety explained : Mr. Safety says use a recessed receptacle: https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-689-W.../dp/B0012DKBL2 Prevents 'wall warts' too. Good catch. |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
Uncle Monster wrote: "holding a metal outlet cover comes loose, the cover can fall onto the hot and neutral as a plug is
removed or is partially unplugged. Whenever I installed receptacles, I install them ground up for a vertical installation and neutral up for a horizontal installation. That's the way I've done it, you can do it your way. ^_^ " ^ +1!! ^ Uncle Logical Monster! :) |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
If the screw holding a metal outlet cover comes loose, the cover can
fall onto the hot and neutral as a plug is removed or is partially unplugged. Sheesh, what's with all the loose screws and plugs falling out of outlets? :) I can't recall EVER seeing a loose cover plate screw. Assuming they were tightened when installed, why would the screw work loose? The screw would not only have to loosen up, but it would have to back out a half inch for the cover plate to fall off. Even if that were to happen, a plastic cover plate would solve that problem. - Use a quality outlet with a plastic cover plate. - Don't use the back-stab connectors. - Make sure the plug is fully inserted into the outlet. - Position the cord where it won't get snagged to pull the plug out. - Eliminate situations where things could fall on the outlet. - Use a protective cover if the risk cannot be avoided. Orient the outlet however the inspector wants it, or what works best for your situation or personal preference. Anthony Watson www.watsondiy.com www.mountainsoftware.com |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On 10/01/2016 10:53 AM, HerHusband wrote:
[snip] https://www.amazon.com/MM410C-Weathe...or-Receptacle- Protector/dp/B001JEPX44/ref=sr_1_1 The broken link led to a nice picture of a dog. The receptacle cover should keep metal objects from falling in. At least until someone gets tired of dealing with it and removes it. [snip] |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On 10/01/2016 10:12 AM, FromTheRafters wrote:
Mr. Safety explained : Mr. Safety says use a recessed receptacle: https://www.amazon.com/Leviton-689-W.../dp/B0012DKBL2 Prevents 'wall warts' too. There are those "power strip savers", 8-inch extension cords. -- 85 days until the winter celebration (Sunday December 25, 2016 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "Sin: A system devised by the sadistic to manipulate the brainless" |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Fri, 30 Sep 2016 19:10:52 -0700, "Checkmate, DoW #1" wrote:
In article , says... ... I'm thinking of putting it on a trailer and driving to Washington state where I can park it on a certain vacant lot in Yachats. LOL. Just sail it 'round the Horn... It would be easier to sail it around Canada since Al Gore says there is no ice up there anymore due to AGW. LOL! -- Sir Gregory Hall, Esq. "It is my learned opinion that a man should not mince words just to spare the sensibilities of the thin-skinned or the ignorant." |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Saturday, October 1, 2016 at 1:32:11 PM UTC-5, HerHusband wrote:
If the screw holding a metal outlet cover comes loose, the cover can fall onto the hot and neutral as a plug is removed or is partially unplugged. Sheesh, what's with all the loose screws and plugs falling out of outlets? :) I can't recall EVER seeing a loose cover plate screw. Assuming they were tightened when installed, why would the screw work loose? The screw would not only have to loosen up, but it would have to back out a half inch for the cover plate to fall off. Even if that were to happen, a plastic cover plate would solve that problem. - Use a quality outlet with a plastic cover plate. - Don't use the back-stab connectors. - Make sure the plug is fully inserted into the outlet. - Position the cord where it won't get snagged to pull the plug out. - Eliminate situations where things could fall on the outlet. - Use a protective cover if the risk cannot be avoided. Orient the outlet however the inspector wants it, or what works best for your situation or personal preference. Anthony Watson What happens is a cord often gets yanked sideways putting stress on the outlet and the twisting motion plus vibration can work a cover screw loose. I've seen metal cover plates fall right off where the Bakelite plates shatter.. I like the nylon plates because they don't break. But a lot of problems can be eliminated if spacers are used on the screws behind the ears on the outlet to stabilize it by bringing it out far enough so the outlet cover is not under stress. The spacers are for sale in the electrical area of your local Lowe's Depot. ^_^ [8~{} Uncle Screwy Monster |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
IOn Saturday, October 1, 2016 at 10:15:03 AM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Saturday, October 1, 2016 at 3:28:16 AM UTC-4, Uncle Monster wrote: Me and my fellow electricians repaired a lot of extension cords for the other trades like carpenters who sawed their cords in half. If an electrical accident can happen, it often does on a construction site. Many years ago I spent 2 weeks in the woods, camping with a bunch of friends and helping a friend build a large cabin on his land. He had a generator so we had power tools. Sometime near the beginning of the build, someone told a story about someone else cutting the cord on a circular saw. "Don't cut the cord!" became sort of rallying cry for the trip. Very often, when someone turned off a circular saw, someone would yell out "Don't cut the cord!". The cry would echo from all over the build site, with various people yelling "Don't cut the cord!", then "Don't cut the cord!", one after another until it until it finally died out. On the last day that I was there, guess what I did? Yep, I put the saw down on the cord as the blade was still spinning and cut the cord. The generator made a weird noise and just about everyone heard the saw make a noise as the cord wrapped around the spindle. It was silent for a second then someone from a far corner of the build site called out "He cut the cord." The echo chant now changed from "Don't cut the cord!" to "He cut the cord.", "He cut the cord.". The timing was perfect and we ending up laughing so hard it hurt. Cousin I-Cut-The-Cord Monster Is there anyone here who has NOT cut the cord of his hedge trimmer? |
Electrical Outlets Upside Down? Code?
On Monday, October 3, 2016 at 9:27:48 AM UTC-4, TimR wrote:
Is there anyone here who has NOT cut the cord of his hedge trimmer? I haven't. My hedge trimmer doesn't have it's own cord, just a plug built into a recessed area of the handle. The socket end of an extension cord connects directly to that plug and is held in by a molded hook. Now ask me about cutting the *extension cord* with my hedge trimmer. ;-) |
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