replying to RBM, engineer/realtor wrote:
I have a couple of rental properties with K&T (sometimes referred to as knob
and spool). Attic access is limited and usually damage to suspended wiring is
a result of crawling around in the attic. I changed out the plugs to 3 prong
and was surprised to find the insulation in really good shape. For the most
part, Europe does not reference their power systems to ground and use 220
distribution. They have fewer lightning problems, can use smaller conductors,
have plugs that disconnect before anyone can touch prongs. Safety is less a
problem. GFCI's are not required outside and in wet areas.

--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...op-291758-.htm

On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 11:44:05 AM UTC-4, engineer/realtor wrote:
replying to RBM, engineer/realtor wrote:
I have a couple of rental properties with K&T (sometimes referred to as knob
and spool). Attic access is limited and usually damage to suspended wiring is
a result of crawling around in the attic. I changed out the plugs to 3 prong
and was surprised to find the insulation in really good shape.

I assume you mean you changed the non-grounded receptacles to ones with
ground? Since K&T has no ground, what did you do about that? The only
code compliant solution I know of is to use GFCI.



How For the most
part, Europe does not reference their power systems to ground and use 220
distribution. They have fewer lightning problems, can use smaller conductors,
have plugs that disconnect before anyone can touch prongs. Safety is less a
problem. GFCI's are not required outside and in wet areas.

--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...op-291758-.htm

if anyone has K&T in a home, call state farm or other homeowners insurance companies, and ask about buying a new policy.

sorry no will be the response.

since anyone who buys a home with a mortage must have homeowners insurance. it makes the home impossible to sell......

replying to trader_4, engineer/realtor wrote:
I also changed the fuse panel to a breaker panel. The breakers servicing the
plugs are now GFCI.

--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...op-291758-.htm

On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 1:07:52 PM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
if anyone has K&T in a home, call state farm or other homeowners insurance companies, and ask about buying a new policy.

sorry no will be the response.

since anyone who buys a home with a mortage must have homeowners insurance. it makes the home impossible to sell......

Unless it sells for cash...

On Sat, 21 May 2016 17:50:14 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 1:07:52 PM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
if anyone has K&T in a home, call state farm or other homeowners insurance companies, and ask about buying a new policy.

sorry no will be the response.

since anyone who buys a home with a mortage must have homeowners insurance. it makes the home impossible to sell......

Unless it sells for cash...

Hmm. I have a friend who bought a house like that about 4 years ago
and I don't think he had enough money to pay cash.

I liked it, because it was old, but he replaced all the wiring
himself, and a lot of other stuff. I don't know what he did about
insurance. I'm sure he bought some.

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 12:03:43 AM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2016 17:50:14 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 1:07:52 PM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
if anyone has K&T in a home, call state farm or other homeowners insurance companies, and ask about buying a new policy.

sorry no will be the response.

since anyone who buys a home with a mortage must have homeowners insurance. it makes the home impossible to sell......

Unless it sells for cash...

Hmm. I have a friend who bought a house like that about 4 years ago
and I don't think he had enough money to pay cash.

I liked it, because it was old, but he replaced all the wiring
himself, and a lot of other stuff. I don't know what he did about
insurance. I'm sure he bought some.

hey may have been required to replace all the wiring within a timeframe like 30 days

On 5/21/2016 10:44 AM, engineer/realtor wrote:

Looks like it was used till the 1930's and is still used in some
"agricultural" applications.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knob-and-tube_wiring
My old house still has it, and you can still buy or sell the stuff.
http://www.sundialwire.com/porcelainknob.aspx

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 12:03:43 AM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2016 17:50:14 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 1:07:52 PM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
if anyone has K&T in a home, call state farm or other homeowners insurance companies, and ask about buying a new policy.

sorry no will be the response.

since anyone who buys a home with a mortage must have homeowners insurance. it makes the home impossible to sell......

Unless it sells for cash...

Hmm. I have a friend who bought a house like that about 4 years ago
and I don't think he had enough money to pay cash.

I liked it, because it was old, but he replaced all the wiring
himself, and a lot of other stuff. I don't know what he did about
insurance. I'm sure he bought some.

Here's an interesting coincidence...

My first recollection of knob and tube wring is noticing the remains of it at my
Great-Aunt's house. She was my beloved Godmother and I some a lot of time in her
house while growing up. The knobs and some of the cables could be seen in the
joist bays of the dirt floor basement. That wiring is one of my first recollections of
being interesting in how houses worked.

My current house, which my Godmother gave me a chunk of money for, still has some
of the next generation wiring, braided cloth sheathed NM (what some people call
cloth covered Romex). On the jacket of some of the cable is the name of the manufacturer:
Narragansett.

Ok, here comes the coincidence...

My Godmother's house is located on Narragansett Blvd. When I see that cable in my
basement, it often reminds me of Ciocia Josie and her really neat old house. I like to think
she's still around, still making sure I'm OK.

On Sun, 22 May 2016 04:30:48 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 12:03:43 AM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2016 17:50:14 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 1:07:52 PM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
if anyone has K&T in a home, call state farm or other homeowners insurance companies, and ask about buying a new policy.

sorry no will be the response.

since anyone who buys a home with a mortage must have homeowners insurance. it makes the home impossible to sell......

Unless it sells for cash...

Hmm. I have a friend who bought a house like that about 4 years ago
and I don't think he had enough money to pay cash.

I liked it, because it was old, but he replaced all the wiring
himself, and a lot of other stuff. I don't know what he did about
insurance. I'm sure he bought some.

hey may have been required to replace all the wiring within a timeframe like 30 days

I'm pretty sure it took him 3 or more likely 6 months. He was probaby
preparing for other repairs too, redoing the kitchen, new furnace,
repairing the barn. Plus he runs his own business, including doing
sales, "management", and often service calls because it's so hard to
find competent technicians. He also often takes emergency service
calls during off hours. He also rides a horse 2 to 4 times a month,
and to get a discount on the horse, he mucks stalls, which takes time,
though he might not have done any of that when he first got the house.
He also takes vacations, including one where he was on a miniature
cattle drive. Plus one to a car show in upstate NYS. Plus he's
married, though maybe he has no time for his wife! But he does do
chores for his mother-in-law, who's a widow. Oh yeah, he was
president of the Buick club for years, but now I think he's only in
charge of their shows, whatever they are called. (Once a year they get
a Buick dealer to lend them space for a day, etc. and get 30 or 40
restored or partially restored or never needed restoring Buicks from
members to display.) He used to be a boy scout leader too but he
gave that up. He restores old Buicks but that's been on hold since
he bought the new used house.

I don't like to "pry" into his business life, but I think this is the
kind of question I can ask him. But I'm not going to call him
special. I plan to post more details once I get them.

On Sun, 22 May 2016 04:30:48 -0700 (PDT), bob haller
wrote:

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 12:03:43 AM UTC-4, Micky wrote:\
Hmm. I have a friend who bought a house like that about 4 years ago
and I don't think he had enough money to pay cash.

I liked it, because it was old, but he replaced all the wiring
himself, and a lot of other stuff. I don't know what he did about
insurance. I'm sure he bought some.

hey may have been required to replace all the wiring within a timeframe like 30 days

He might have gotten the mortgage when they weren't asking questions.
Is that possible, that they wouldn't insist on speedy replacement of
the knob and tube? Wait a second. It's the insurance company, not
the mortgage company, that asks those questions. ?? Would the
mortgagee ever not require insurance, even during the liar-loan
period?

The guy who arranged the mortgage on the home and outbuilding he
bought for his business said if he applied now (5 years ago), he
couldn't get the mortgage. (His office is on the second floor and
attic. He remodeled the whole house and rents the first floor to two
business tenants. He rents the basement to another one -- it was a
church for a while!! He also remodelled the outbuilding, which was
partly a garage but quite a bit bigger than most, and he rents that to
another business. When fully rented the 4 are about enough to pay the
mortgage. Probably paid someone for all the remodeling since it's
clearly deductable, but that costs money too. I don't know how that
money is borrowed (the original mortgage or a second loan?) But he
made it through the recession and is, he told me about a year ago,
making money now. More clients are paying their bills, for one
thing. I'd like him to be a rich man by the time he retires but the
clock is ticking down.

On Sun, 22 May 2016 06:13:22 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 12:03:43 AM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2016 17:50:14 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 1:07:52 PM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
if anyone has K&T in a home, call state farm or other homeowners insurance companies, and ask about buying a new policy.

sorry no will be the response.

since anyone who buys a home with a mortage must have homeowners insurance. it makes the home impossible to sell......

Unless it sells for cash...

Hmm. I have a friend who bought a house like that about 4 years ago
and I don't think he had enough money to pay cash.

I liked it, because it was old, but he replaced all the wiring
himself, and a lot of other stuff. I don't know what he did about
insurance. I'm sure he bought some.

Here's an interesting coincidence...

My first recollection of knob and tube wring is noticing the remains of it at my
Great-Aunt's house. She was my beloved Godmother and I some a lot of time in her
house while growing up. The knobs and some of the cables could be seen in the
joist bays of the dirt floor basement. That wiring is one of my first recollections of
being interesting in how houses worked.

I think old houses inspire interest more readily.

My current house, which my Godmother gave me a chunk of money for, still has some
of the next generation wiring, braided cloth sheathed NM (what some people call
cloth covered Romex). On the jacket of some of the cable is the name of the manufacturer:
Narragansett.

That's a good island.

Ok, here comes the coincidence...

My Godmother's house is located on Narragansett Blvd. When I see that cable in my
basement, it often reminds me of Ciocia Josie and her really neat old house. I like to think
she's still around, still making sure I'm OK.

You haven't burned the house down have you? No serious traffic
accidents?

20 or 30 years after my grandmother got old, moved out of her house
where she and my GF had lived for 15 years, and moved in with her
daughter, around 1960, I went to see her house. The new owner (black,
fwiw) had fixed it up nicely (much nicer than when my GP's had it) and
he showed me the basement, where he had found a target range. Only
about half of the basement was 8 feet deep, and the rest was about 3
feet deep and there was only the light that bounced in from the other
half (which didn't reach to the end), and at the far end of the second
part, he found targets, with holes in them. And bullets too. I
can't imagine it was my GF, so it was someone 1945 or earlier who used
that target range.

On Sun, 22 May 2016 06:47:07 -0500, My 2 Cents wrote:

On 5/21/2016 10:44 AM, engineer/realtor wrote:

Looks like it was used till the 1930's and is still used in some
"agricultural" applications.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knob-and-tube_wiring
My old house still has it, and you can still buy or sell the stuff.

I love that.

http://www.sundialwire.com/porcelainknob.aspx

If I were younger and more energetic, I'd rewire my house this way and
see if the insurance company cancelled me.


"BUILDING CODES PROHIBIT REPAIRING EXISTING KNOB AND TUBE WIRING IN
BUILDINGS. IT MUST BE FULLY REPLACED IF IT IS TO BE ALTERED. PLEASE
CONSULT YOUR BUILDING INSPECTOR BEFORE MAKING ANY CHANGES TO EXISTING
KNOB AND TUBE WIRING. THIS WIRE IS INTENDED FOR MUSEUM, THEATRICAL,
AND NON-BUILDING WIRING. " They say that, but it's really used for
repairs, right? And the vendor knows it? Anytime a vendor says
"intended" that's just covering their back, right?

replying to bob haller, engineer/realtor wrote:
I had no problem getting insurance on these properties. But I also kept my
mouth shut and their inspector just did a drive by. They are insured as
rentals and at highway robbery rates...

--
posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...op-291758-.htm

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 11:18:46 PM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 22 May 2016 06:13:22 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 12:03:43 AM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2016 17:50:14 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 1:07:52 PM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
if anyone has K&T in a home, call state farm or other homeowners insurance companies, and ask about buying a new policy.

sorry no will be the response.

since anyone who buys a home with a mortage must have homeowners insurance. it makes the home impossible to sell......

Unless it sells for cash...

Hmm. I have a friend who bought a house like that about 4 years ago
and I don't think he had enough money to pay cash.

I liked it, because it was old, but he replaced all the wiring
himself, and a lot of other stuff. I don't know what he did about
insurance. I'm sure he bought some.

Here's an interesting coincidence...

My first recollection of knob and tube wring is noticing the remains of it at my
Great-Aunt's house. She was my beloved Godmother and I some a lot of time in her
house while growing up. The knobs and some of the cables could be seen in the
joist bays of the dirt floor basement. That wiring is one of my first recollections of
being interesting in how houses worked.

I think old houses inspire interest more readily.

My current house, which my Godmother gave me a chunk of money for, still has some
of the next generation wiring, braided cloth sheathed NM (what some people call
cloth covered Romex). On the jacket of some of the cable is the name of the manufacturer:
Narragansett.

That's a good island.

Ok, here comes the coincidence...

My Godmother's house is located on Narragansett Blvd. When I see that cable in my
basement, it often reminds me of Ciocia Josie and her really neat old house. I like to think
she's still around, still making sure I'm OK.

You haven't burned the house down have you? No serious traffic
accidents?

20 or 30 years after my grandmother got old, moved out of her house
where she and my GF had lived for 15 years, and moved in with her
daughter, around 1960, I went to see her house. The new owner (black,
fwiw)

It's not worth anything. Why would you even bother mentioning that?

had fixed it up nicely (much nicer than when my GP's had it) and
he showed me the basement, where he had found a target range. Only
about half of the basement was 8 feet deep, and the rest was about 3
feet deep and there was only the light that bounced in from the other
half (which didn't reach to the end), and at the far end of the second
part, he found targets, with holes in them. And bullets too. I
can't imagine it was my GF, so it was someone 1945 or earlier who used
that target range.

On 5/23/2016 7:00 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 11:18:46 PM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 22 May 2016 06:13:22 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 12:03:43 AM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2016 17:50:14 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 1:07:52 PM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
if anyone has K&T in a home, call state farm or other homeowners insurance companies, and ask about buying a new policy.

sorry no will be the response.

since anyone who buys a home with a mortage must have homeowners insurance. it makes the home impossible to sell......

Unless it sells for cash...

Hmm. I have a friend who bought a house like that about 4 years ago
and I don't think he had enough money to pay cash.

I liked it, because it was old, but he replaced all the wiring
himself, and a lot of other stuff. I don't know what he did about
insurance. I'm sure he bought some.

Here's an interesting coincidence...

My first recollection of knob and tube wring is noticing the remains of it at my
Great-Aunt's house. She was my beloved Godmother and I some a lot of time in her
house while growing up. The knobs and some of the cables could be seen in the
joist bays of the dirt floor basement. That wiring is one of my first recollections of
being interesting in how houses worked.

I think old houses inspire interest more readily.

My current house, which my Godmother gave me a chunk of money for, still has some
of the next generation wiring, braided cloth sheathed NM (what some people call
cloth covered Romex). On the jacket of some of the cable is the name of the manufacturer:
Narragansett.

That's a good island.

Ok, here comes the coincidence...

My Godmother's house is located on Narragansett Blvd. When I see that cable in my
basement, it often reminds me of Ciocia Josie and her really neat old house. I like to think
she's still around, still making sure I'm OK.

You haven't burned the house down have you? No serious traffic
accidents?

20 or 30 years after my grandmother got old, moved out of her house
where she and my GF had lived for 15 years, and moved in with her
daughter, around 1960, I went to see her house. The new owner (black,
fwiw)

It's not worth anything. Why wo[Diversity, man. Now days, we need to demonstrate diversity in all we do.]uld you even bother mentioning that?

had fixed it up nicely (much nicer than when my GP's had it) and
he showed me the basement, where he had found a target range. Only
about half of the basement was 8 feet deep, and the rest was about 3
feet deep and there was only the light that bounced in from the other
half (which didn't reach to the end), and at the far end of the second
part, he found targets, with holes in them. And bullets too. I
can't imagine it was my GF, so it was someone 1945 or earlier who used
that target range.



Center posted, with no text trimmed. As yours was.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 5/23/2016 7:00 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 11:18:46 PM UTC-4, Micky wrote:

20 or 30 years after my grandmother got old, moved out of her house
where she and my GF had lived for 15 years, and moved in with her
daughter, around 1960, I went to see her house. The new owner (black,
fwiw)

It's not worth anything. Why would you even bother mentioning that?


Saves us from having to ask if they were illegal
Mexicans.

BTW, here is a demonstration of trimmed text,
and bottom posting. You might learn some thing.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 5/21/2016 8:44 AM, engineer/realtor wrote:
replying to RBM, engineer/realtor wrote:
I have a couple of rental properties with K&T (sometimes referred to as
knob
and spool). Attic access is limited and usually damage to suspended
wiring is
a result of crawling around in the attic. I changed out the plugs to 3
prong
and was surprised to find the insulation in really good shape. For the
most
part, Europe does not reference their power systems to ground and use 220
distribution. They have fewer lightning problems, can use smaller
conductors,
have plugs that disconnect before anyone can touch prongs. Safety is
less a
problem. GFCI's are not required outside and in wet areas.


Like I said B4, this electrical grounding is just bull****.
I never ground nutin', honey.

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 12:22:14 PM UTC-4, Colonel Edmund J. Burke wrote:
On 5/21/2016 8:44 AM, engineer/realtor wrote:
replying to RBM, engineer/realtor wrote:
I have a couple of rental properties with K&T (sometimes referred to as
knob
and spool). Attic access is limited and usually damage to suspended
wiring is
a result of crawling around in the attic. I changed out the plugs to 3
prong
and was surprised to find the insulation in really good shape. For the
most
part, Europe does not reference their power systems to ground and use 220
distribution. They have fewer lightning problems, can use smaller
conductors,
have plugs that disconnect before anyone can touch prongs. Safety is
less a
problem. GFCI's are not required outside and in wet areas.


Like I said B4, this electrical grounding is just bull****.
I never ground nutin', honey.

since you obviously dont understand the purpose of grounds.

lets imagine a hot wire comes in contact with the case of whatever.


the machine may still work but the case is powered hot.

touch the body of the device and get shocked

On Mon, 23 May 2016 04:00:21 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 11:18:46 PM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Sun, 22 May 2016 06:13:22 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 12:03:43 AM UTC-4, Micky wrote:
On Sat, 21 May 2016 17:50:14 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Saturday, May 21, 2016 at 1:07:52 PM UTC-4, bob haller wrote:
if anyone has K&T in a home, call state farm or other homeowners insurance companies, and ask about buying a new policy.

sorry no will be the response.

since anyone who buys a home with a mortage must have homeowners insurance. it makes the home impossible to sell......

Unless it sells for cash...

Hmm. I have a friend who bought a house like that about 4 years ago
and I don't think he had enough money to pay cash.

I liked it, because it was old, but he replaced all the wiring
himself, and a lot of other stuff. I don't know what he did about
insurance. I'm sure he bought some.

Here's an interesting coincidence...

My first recollection of knob and tube wring is noticing the remains of it at my
Great-Aunt's house. She was my beloved Godmother and I some a lot of time in her
house while growing up. The knobs and some of the cables could be seen in the
joist bays of the dirt floor basement. That wiring is one of my first recollections of
being interesting in how houses worked.

I think old houses inspire interest more readily.

My current house, which my Godmother gave me a chunk of money for, still has some
of the next generation wiring, braided cloth sheathed NM (what some people call
cloth covered Romex). On the jacket of some of the cable is the name of the manufacturer:
Narragansett.

That's a good island.

Ok, here comes the coincidence...

My Godmother's house is located on Narragansett Blvd. When I see that cable in my
basement, it often reminds me of Ciocia Josie and her really neat old house. I like to think
she's still around, still making sure I'm OK.

You haven't burned the house down have you? No serious traffic
accidents?

20 or 30 years after my grandmother got old, moved out of her house
where she and my GF had lived for 15 years, and moved in with her
daughter, around 1960, I went to see her house. The new owner (black,
fwiw)

It's not worth anything. Why would you even bother mentioning that?

For the jackasses that read this group.

had fixed it up nicely (much nicer than when my GP's had it) and
he showed me the basement, where he had found a target range. Only
about half of the basement was 8 feet deep, and the rest was about 3
feet deep and there was only the light that bounced in from the other
half (which didn't reach to the end), and at the far end of the second
part, he found targets, with holes in them. And bullets too. I
can't imagine it was my GF, so it was someone 1945 or earlier who used
that target range.

On 5/24/2016 11:53 AM, Micky wrote:
On Mon, 23 May 2016 04:00:21 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 11:18:46 PM UTC-4, Micky wrote:

20 or 30 years after my grandmother got old, moved out of her house
where she and my GF had lived for 15 years, and moved in with her
daughter, around 1960, I went to see her house. The new owner (black,
fwiw)

It's not worth anything. Why would you even bother mentioning that?

For the jackasses that read this group.

Well, this jackass didn't get to ask if they
were illegal mexicans. Drat, foiled again!


-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..