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Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 11/05/2016 18:01, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 11:27 AM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 17:13, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 3:03 AM, Bod wrote: On 10/05/2016 21:41, Muggles wrote: It also helps when you have a personal relationship with Jesus (God) and one of his saints. Can we say "voices in our heads?" :-) ...a constant discussion and conversation, I'd say. Voices in the head is a sign of madness. Do you ever "think" about anything? Do you ever "contemplate" events, or remember your past, or rehearse future discussions you want to have with people in your head? Voices in the head are normal. It's just unspoken conversation and memories, whether it be from the past, or something inferred for the futures. I don't suffer with voices, but admit to having thoughts (like normal people do). A thought is just a voice we hear in our heads. No it's not, it's just a thought. The enemy within: People who hear voices in their heads are being ... www.independent.co.uk ۼ Lifestyle ۼ Health & Families ۼ Health News 25 Jan 2015 - One night, during her first year at the University of Sheffield, Rachel Waddingham struggled to fall asleep. She could hear three middle-aged ... -- Bod |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 11/05/2016 18:07, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 16:39:33 +0100, Bod wrote: Indeed it was. One English religion hated the Jews. The Jews of course being very religious and not killing anyone. So its probably the combination of English and a religion that turned it so brutal. The Brits being well known thugs and all...shrug Gunner Oh dear, you're dragging the past up again. The UK is very tolerant of Jews and we are in no way "thugs". I speak as I find and I've worked for many Jews in their own homes and all were lovely kind people. A few even insisted that I stay for dinner. -- Bod Dragging up the past again? Oh...so you dont like it when I do it..but you do it as a matter of course and think its ok? Of course most Jews are nice people. As are most Catholics, Anglicans, Methodists, Lutherens and so on and so forth. Yet you lead us to believe they are all ****ing ******s. Do try try to be consistant in your distain and hate, old boy. Gunner Why do you refer to what I've said as *hate*? -- Bod |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 11/05/2016 18:08, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 11:32 AM, Bod wrote: And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. And that was the beginning of science. The universe was a creation of God and what we observed around us was nature, not the work of petty human like gods and magic. Glory be to God! -T String theory is really w-e-i-r-d. Indeed, very similar to many religions, like Scientology/ Jehovah Witlesses/ Moony loonies and Morons (sorry....Mormons, etc. One thing that is true about people who have a religious belief system is that people of all levels of intelligence BELIEVE. How do you explain that many very smart people still believe in a God? Many *smart people* have turned out to be conning thieving villains. So you can't measure by smartness. Then we can agree that ones intelligence has no bearing on belief in a higher power? Not necessarily, no. Maybe it depends whether they hear *voices in their heads*. -- Bod |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 11/05/2016 18:10, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 11:39 AM, Bod wrote: "Religion is a cultural system of behaviors and practices, world views, sacred texts, holy places, ethics, and societal organisation that relate humanity to what an anthropologist has called "an order of existence". "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs ..." Technically, if a person identifies with a particular societal organization that shares a specific mindset relating to such things as stated above, it can be classified as a religion. So in your strange interpretation, I am an Atheist who doesn't believe in *any* religion, but I am religious!!?....hmm! No. I'm saying that the definition of a religion equates atheism as a religion. Being "religious" is a whole different practice. So I'm not religious, but I am? -- Bod |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
Nice atmosphere and plush decor etc in churches though. So it doesnt work for you..at this point in your life. Shrug. You might change...you might not. Its surprising the numbers of Atheists who cry out to god(s) as the dark night closes in, at the end. Ive seen and heard many of them do just this as they died..or thought they were about to die. Shrug. So why not leave those that believe differently than you do, to their beliefs and faiths, and try finding something else to discuss? Say...something like "survival"? Afterall..thats what this group is all about. Gunner So you're frightened of discussing religion? -- Bod |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 11/05/2016 18:12, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 11:43 AM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 17:32, Muggles wrote: guess you have never looked into someone's eyes and seen the love of God. Many people won't look others eye to eye because they can see into that person's soul what they are going through, or what they are about. Have you noticed that people don't like looking at each other eye to eye? I always do. Autistic people have trouble in looking into peoples eyes though. Only by looking into someone's eyes can you see their sincerity. That's very true. Wow!! we agree. :-) -- Bod |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 11/05/2016 18:12, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 11 May 2016 16:54:44 +0100, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 16:33, Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 11 May 2016 15:01:06 +0100, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 12:47, Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 11 May 2016 10:47:58 +0100, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 10:22, Gunner Asch wrote: On Wed, 11 May 2016 09:03:05 +0100, Bod wrote: On 10/05/2016 21:41, Muggles wrote: On 5/10/2016 2:35 PM, T wrote: On 05/08/2016 12:26 PM, Muggles wrote: Who designed the human nervous system? What sort of intelligence would it take to get it to function correctly? Hi Muggles, I sometimes refer to God as the Master Bioengineer. :-) My unscientific observation is that a lot of intelligent folks do believe in God. Einstein's saying as "How did he do it?" The more you realize you don't know, the more humble you become and the more you realize their is someone's hand in all this. I love to discuss quantum physics in relation to outer space in discussions about belief in God. How is time measured in space, how do we know time has always been constant there since many people like to put a number on the age of the universe and use that as evidence to estimate the age of the Earth. I've had some VERY interesting discussions like that! First sentence of the Nicene Creed: "We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible." Wisdom of Sirach, chapter 38, v6, KJV: And he hath given men skill, that he might be honoured in his marvellous works. Glory be to God! -T Amen, T. It also helps when you have a personal relationship with Jesus (God) and one of his saints. Can we say "voices in our heads?" :-) ...a constant discussion and conversation, I'd say. Voices in the head is a sign of madness. Tell that to a telepath. I'd rather talk to a sane person thankyou. The few telepaths Ive met were rather sane...though hated to be around groups of people. Understandable of course. It doesn't surprise me at all that you've spoken to Telepaths. I class Telepathy/Astrology and Religion in the same category as snake oil. ignorance does tend to be one of your strongest traits...shrug. Gunner Read of my religious experiences in one of my recent posts, oh presumptious one. The one about the "cold feeling"? And this has what to do with reality and in particular..those that can read emotion or some thoughts? Gunner It was simply a description of how I felt. -- Bod |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 5/11/2016 12:28 PM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 18:01, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 11:27 AM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 17:13, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 3:03 AM, Bod wrote: On 10/05/2016 21:41, Muggles wrote: It also helps when you have a personal relationship with Jesus (God) and one of his saints. Can we say "voices in our heads?" :-) ...a constant discussion and conversation, I'd say. Voices in the head is a sign of madness. Do you ever "think" about anything? Do you ever "contemplate" events, or remember your past, or rehearse future discussions you want to have with people in your head? Voices in the head are normal. It's just unspoken conversation and memories, whether it be from the past, or something inferred for the futures. I don't suffer with voices, but admit to having thoughts (like normal people do). A thought is just a voice we hear in our heads. No it's not, it's just a thought. The enemy within: People who hear voices in their heads are being ... www.independent.co.uk ۼ Lifestyle ۼ Health & Families ۼ Health News 25 Jan 2015 - One night, during her first year at the University of Sheffield, Rachel Waddingham struggled to fall asleep. She could hear three middle-aged ... I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Everything, including denotative meanings, imply that a voice does not have to be something that is spoken or audible. -- Maggie |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 11/05/2016 18:14, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 11:50 AM, Bod wrote: However, it doesn't have connections with "sacred texts, or holy places" except to deny such things are valid. Atheism DOES relate to and adhere to beliefs in regards to ethics, and societal organisation that relate humanity to what an anthropologist has called "an order of existence". A religion isn't necessarily about the sacred or holy or even about a belief in a god. It is a belief system that has both a connotative and denotative understanding of how it is defined and what is involved in its practices. religion noun "the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods". That is ONE denotative definition of religion, but in order to be thorough, it is a good idea to view the whole picture of how "religion" is defined, vs. only quoting one narrow definition that may or may not support ones own viewpoint, don't you agree? If one is not religious, then they are NOT religious, no matter how you twist the meaning. -- Bod |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 5/11/2016 12:32 PM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 18:08, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 11:32 AM, Bod wrote: And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. And that was the beginning of science. The universe was a creation of God and what we observed around us was nature, not the work of petty human like gods and magic. Glory be to God! -T String theory is really w-e-i-r-d. Indeed, very similar to many religions, like Scientology/ Jehovah Witlesses/ Moony loonies and Morons (sorry....Mormons, etc. One thing that is true about people who have a religious belief system is that people of all levels of intelligence BELIEVE. How do you explain that many very smart people still believe in a God? Many *smart people* have turned out to be conning thieving villains. So you can't measure by smartness. Then we can agree that ones intelligence has no bearing on belief in a higher power? Not necessarily, no. Maybe it depends whether they hear *voices in their heads*. Ok. But you said "you can't measure by smartness". Maybe, I didn't understand what you meant? I thought you meant that intelligent (smart) people couldn't really be intelligent if they believed in a God or higher power, and then you said "you can't measure by smartness"? To me, it sounds like you're contradicting yourself. -- Maggie |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 5/11/2016 12:33 PM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 18:10, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 11:39 AM, Bod wrote: "Religion is a cultural system of behaviors and practices, world views, sacred texts, holy places, ethics, and societal organisation that relate humanity to what an anthropologist has called "an order of existence". "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs ..." Technically, if a person identifies with a particular societal organization that shares a specific mindset relating to such things as stated above, it can be classified as a religion. So in your strange interpretation, I am an Atheist who doesn't believe in *any* religion, but I am religious!!?....hmm! No. I'm saying that the definition of a religion equates atheism as a religion. Being "religious" is a whole different practice. So I'm not religious, but I am? No. A "religion" is not the same thing as being "religious". -- Maggie |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 11/05/2016 18:16, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 12:00 PM, Bod wrote: As I look around *me*, I see many different religions all guessing that their particular strain is the *only* religion. I also see that religion in the UK is dying out except for the primitive Muslim religions. It's true that as people get more informed and intelligent that they are realising how misguided they have been. It wasn't that long ago that people were worshipping the Moon/ the Sun and many other objects as their god. Even today there are Scientologist idiots believing in Aliens etc. If you read the Bible or the Koran, you'll see that they are both contradictory all the way through and the *believers* cherry pick what they want to hear. I don't think any individual religion has everything correct, but I do think many religions make an attempt to acknowledge that there is a greater power involved in our existence, which, in turn, acknowledges that mankind is not equivalent to being a god. IMO, there is too much evidence that it took intelligence to create everything we see around us. And it all happened only 6 thousand years ago? No. Hmm! this disagrees with you: The Biblical Age of the Earth - Truth In Genesis http://www.truthingenesis.com/2013/0...-of-the-earth/ 3 Jan 2013 - So, according to the Bible the earth is about 6000 years old. ... How long did Joshua march around the walls of Jericho anyway? ... He says, €œBy Periods God created that which produced the Solar Systems; then that which ... How many hours were in a day when Creation happened? What!!? -- Bod |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 5/11/2016 12:37 PM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 18:12, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 11:43 AM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 17:32, Muggles wrote: guess you have never looked into someone's eyes and seen the love of God. Many people won't look others eye to eye because they can see into that person's soul what they are going through, or what they are about. Have you noticed that people don't like looking at each other eye to eye? I always do. Autistic people have trouble in looking into peoples eyes though. Only by looking into someone's eyes can you see their sincerity. That's very true. Wow!! we agree. :-) Yeah! Now, that we agree that you can see sincerity in someone's eyes, would you agree that you can see insincerity, too? -- Maggie |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 5/11/2016 12:39 PM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 18:14, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 11:50 AM, Bod wrote: However, it doesn't have connections with "sacred texts, or holy places" except to deny such things are valid. Atheism DOES relate to and adhere to beliefs in regards to ethics, and societal organisation that relate humanity to what an anthropologist has called "an order of existence". A religion isn't necessarily about the sacred or holy or even about a belief in a god. It is a belief system that has both a connotative and denotative understanding of how it is defined and what is involved in its practices. religion noun "the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods". That is ONE denotative definition of religion, but in order to be thorough, it is a good idea to view the whole picture of how "religion" is defined, vs. only quoting one narrow definition that may or may not support ones own viewpoint, don't you agree? If one is not religious, then they are NOT religious, no matter how you twist the meaning. One can be "religious" without any affiliation with a specific "religion". -- Maggie |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 11/05/2016 18:22, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 12:21 PM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 18:01, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 11:26 AM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 17:09, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 3:02 AM, Bod wrote: On 10/05/2016 21:37, Muggles wrote: On 5/10/2016 2:22 PM, T wrote: On 05/08/2016 12:26 PM, Muggles wrote: On 5/8/2016 1:33 PM, Mr Macaw wrote: On Sun, 08 May 2016 04:03:28 +0100, Muggles wrote: On 5/7/2016 4:08 PM, Mr Macaw wrote: On Sat, 07 May 2016 21:36:25 +0100, Winston_Smith wrote: On Sat, 07 May 2016 21:09:27 +0100, "Mr Macaw" wrote: As intelligence increases with each generation, religion decreases. Can you prove a decrease in religion results in an increase of intelligence ? There seem to be examples to the contrary here. I'd say the increase in intelligence causes the decrease in religion. Clever folk realise what they've been taught is a load of ****e. Religion is only the outward expression of a desire or acknowledgement that a greater power exists beyond our own selves. Yes I know what religion is, and it's nonsensical. No, religion is a logical response to an inward sense that greatness exists outside of being human. There is no evidence of a greater power. Who designed the human nervous system? What sort of intelligence would it take to get it to function correctly? If there was one, there would be evidence, There is evidence, but even evidence is subject to your individual belief system. and if we have to worship it, he would ask for the worship. Would you want to have to ask, or would you want such adoration given freely to you? And looking around you, you see God's hand in everything. yeah ... Hmm, like some innocent babies being born blind/ limbless etc? sing "all things bright and wonderful, the lord god made them all". Then recite "god made all men equal" What a load of crap!! I've asked many questions, myself. As far as creation goes, including human beings, the rules were defined in the beginning. Babies being born blind or limbless and other such things happened after sin entered the world. There is now more chemicals and pollution that we're exposed to than there ever was, and that doesn't include what people voluntarily do to each other or themselves exposing themselves to all sorts of contaminates. I lost much of my hearing as a teen because I lived in a household with parents who smoked and secondhand smoke floated in the house constantly. It's a fact that me being exposed to those contaminates caused my hearing loss. We blame god for everything bad that happens to us, and don't take into consideration that perfection ended with creation after sin entered the world. That's my take on it, anyway. And why did god create such an awful thing to happen? After all, he supposedly created *everything*. God "created" everything "in the beginning". After creation, God didn't create anything new. Creation was the point at which all the physical laws of the universe were "created". That includes everything. sing " all things bright and beautiful, all creatures great and small. All things wise and wonderful, the lord god *made them all*. Please enlighten me! After Creation, in the beginning, man kind was given dominion over the Earth. We are responsible for "all things bright and beautiful, all creatures great and small, all things wise and wonderful". You haven't explained the incest, which obviously HAD to happen from Adam and Eve's offspring. Which is what I asked. I responded to your other post on the topic of incest. But you avoided explaining how *more* babies were created without incest occuring. -- Bod |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 11/05/2016 18:38, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 12:28 PM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 18:01, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 11:27 AM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 17:13, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 3:03 AM, Bod wrote: On 10/05/2016 21:41, Muggles wrote: It also helps when you have a personal relationship with Jesus (God) and one of his saints. Can we say "voices in our heads?" :-) ...a constant discussion and conversation, I'd say. Voices in the head is a sign of madness. Do you ever "think" about anything? Do you ever "contemplate" events, or remember your past, or rehearse future discussions you want to have with people in your head? Voices in the head are normal. It's just unspoken conversation and memories, whether it be from the past, or something inferred for the futures. I don't suffer with voices, but admit to having thoughts (like normal people do). A thought is just a voice we hear in our heads. No it's not, it's just a thought. The enemy within: People who hear voices in their heads are being ... www.independent.co.uk ۼ Lifestyle ۼ Health & Families ۼ Health News 25 Jan 2015 - One night, during her first year at the University of Sheffield, Rachel Waddingham struggled to fall asleep. She could hear three middle-aged ... I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Everything, including denotative meanings, imply that a voice does not have to be something that is spoken or audible. Ok. -- Bod |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 11/05/2016 18:41, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 12:32 PM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 18:08, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 11:32 AM, Bod wrote: And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. And that was the beginning of science. The universe was a creation of God and what we observed around us was nature, not the work of petty human like gods and magic. Glory be to God! -T String theory is really w-e-i-r-d. Indeed, very similar to many religions, like Scientology/ Jehovah Witlesses/ Moony loonies and Morons (sorry....Mormons, etc. One thing that is true about people who have a religious belief system is that people of all levels of intelligence BELIEVE. How do you explain that many very smart people still believe in a God? Many *smart people* have turned out to be conning thieving villains. So you can't measure by smartness. Then we can agree that ones intelligence has no bearing on belief in a higher power? Not necessarily, no. Maybe it depends whether they hear *voices in their heads*. Ok. But you said "you can't measure by smartness". Maybe, I didn't understand what you meant? I thought you meant that intelligent (smart) people couldn't really be intelligent if they believed in a God or higher power, and then you said "you can't measure by smartness"? To me, it sounds like you're contradicting yourself. Smart can be applied to a Jack the lad type of character as well as an astute businessman etc. Some people are smart at business, but lack common sense in other ways. I've worked with a top respected scientist who was the brains of his dep't, but was as thick as a brick with everyday liasons. -- Bod |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 11/05/2016 18:41, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 12:33 PM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 18:10, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 11:39 AM, Bod wrote: "Religion is a cultural system of behaviors and practices, world views, sacred texts, holy places, ethics, and societal organisation that relate humanity to what an anthropologist has called "an order of existence". "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs ..." Technically, if a person identifies with a particular societal organization that shares a specific mindset relating to such things as stated above, it can be classified as a religion. So in your strange interpretation, I am an Atheist who doesn't believe in *any* religion, but I am religious!!?....hmm! No. I'm saying that the definition of a religion equates atheism as a religion. Being "religious" is a whole different practice. So I'm not religious, but I am? No. A "religion" is not the same thing as being "religious". But I'm *not* religious in any way shape or form. -- Bod |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 11/05/2016 18:43, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 12:37 PM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 18:12, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 11:43 AM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 17:32, Muggles wrote: guess you have never looked into someone's eyes and seen the love of God. Many people won't look others eye to eye because they can see into that person's soul what they are going through, or what they are about. Have you noticed that people don't like looking at each other eye to eye? I always do. Autistic people have trouble in looking into peoples eyes though. Only by looking into someone's eyes can you see their sincerity. That's very true. Wow!! we agree. :-) Yeah! Now, that we agree that you can see sincerity in someone's eyes, would you agree that you can see insincerity, too? Of course. -- Bod |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 11/05/2016 18:44, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 12:39 PM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 18:14, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 11:50 AM, Bod wrote: However, it doesn't have connections with "sacred texts, or holy places" except to deny such things are valid. Atheism DOES relate to and adhere to beliefs in regards to ethics, and societal organisation that relate humanity to what an anthropologist has called "an order of existence". A religion isn't necessarily about the sacred or holy or even about a belief in a god. It is a belief system that has both a connotative and denotative understanding of how it is defined and what is involved in its practices. religion noun "the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods". That is ONE denotative definition of religion, but in order to be thorough, it is a good idea to view the whole picture of how "religion" is defined, vs. only quoting one narrow definition that may or may not support ones own viewpoint, don't you agree? If one is not religious, then they are NOT religious, no matter how you twist the meaning. One can be "religious" without any affiliation with a specific "religion". Hmm! you've lost me there. -- Bod |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
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Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
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Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 11/05/2016 18:58, RonNNN wrote:
In article , says... Are you wanting to discuss each point individually? Ok, let's start with the incest please! OK ... tell me where incest was in Adam and Eve's family. 2 people...1 man ...1 woman. They have children, explain how their children created more babies without incest taking place? You will *NOT* get an answer to your question from "Muggles". Anyone who has ever gotten into a "debate" with her knows this already. Thanks for the heads up. I could see her wriggling though. -- Bod |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 11/05/2016 18:59, RonNNN wrote:
In article , says... I responded to your other post on the topic of incest. But you avoided explaining how *more* babies were created without incest occuring. Rinse, repeat... Lol. -- Bod |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 11/05/2016 19:01, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 18:59, RonNNN wrote: In article , says... I responded to your other post on the topic of incest. But you avoided explaining how *more* babies were created without incest occuring. Rinse, repeat... Lol. Anyway, we've hogged this thread, so I'll continue in a new thread to avoid upsetting the regulars. New thread will be: Are Atheists religious ;-) -- Bod |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 5/11/2016 12:41 PM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 18:15, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 11:52 AM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 17:44, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 4:06 AM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 09:15, Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 10 May 2016 17:58:07 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 10 May 2016 14:29:30 -0700, T wrote: On 05/10/2016 02:10 PM, Mr Macaw wrote: On Tue, 10 May 2016 22:05:56 +0100, T wrote: On 05/10/2016 01:41 PM, Muggles wrote: I love to discuss quantum physics in relation to outer space in discussions about belief in God. How is time measured in space, how do we know time has always been constant there since many people like to put a number on the age of the universe and use that as evidence to estimate the age of the Earth. I've had some VERY interesting discussions like that! Hi Muggles, Something I have found interesting is Einstein's take on quantum physics. He did not believe it to be correct because "God is not random". And indeed the theory which is starting to replace quantum physics, called String Theory, is not random. I wonder how many more things Einstein could have discovered if he wasn't hampered by religion? Einstein was driven by "How did he do it". So I have to say, no. He probably would have just been mediocre. "hampered by religion"? You lead an insular life. Often times, those that say they don't believe in religion, get caught up in religions by other names, such a secular humanism, atheism, Liberalism, global warming (which is not science, but religoun). Liberalism, which tells you what you can eat, what you can wear, who you can speak with, what you can drive, yada, yada, yada, is far more restrictive than Christianity. Hell, Liberalism even tells you what you can think (political correctness). A lot of atheists are very religious people. More dogmatically narrow minded than the most devout Jew, Muslim, or southern Baptist Christian, by far. Well put. Gunner "Kill every first born"....now where did I hear that said?...hmm. Also....*Adam and Eve's incestuous family*...I heard that somewhere also. I also heard the story about this thing called god deliberately making childbirth extremely painful because of the actions of Adam & Eve. What a kind and loving god. Are you wanting to discuss each point individually? Ok, let's start with the incest please! OK ... tell me where incest was in Adam and Eve's family. 2 people...1 man ...1 woman. They have children, explain how their children created more babies without incest taking place? You may want to read the first 5 chapters of Genesis, but from what I've read and studied there are 2 explanations that I've read. One explanation that I've read via various commentaries and study is that "in the beginning" incest did not exist because marrying a relative wasn't considered to be incest. The gene pool at that time was not corrupted, therefore, incest did not produce children who were deformed, and marriage was a legitimate union between male and female. Another explanation is God made more people besides just Adam and Eve. That both Adam and Even were God's first man kind that he made, and that the word "man" was plural in some usages, not always singular by definition. The following reference says that when Cain was banished that he lived in a place called Nod, and there were people living there already because he found a wife there. It's established that Adam and Eve lived in Eden and that Cain could not have taken a wife until he was banished and went to the land of Nod. How did those people get there if they were not also created by God "in the beginning"? The text doesn't say how they got in Nod. ....... Reference: Gen 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. Gen 4:17- And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch. ....... The following text implies that God made Adam (him/singular), and God made male and female (them/plural), but it also defines male and female by the name of Adam(male and female/plural). So, it's possible when God created male and female, that male and female were plural, not singular, with God assigning Adam and Eve to take care of the Garden of Eden. ...... Reference: Genesis 5:1- This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created" ...... I haven't decided which possibility I agree with. -- Maggie |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 5/11/2016 12:42 PM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 18:16, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 12:00 PM, Bod wrote: As I look around *me*, I see many different religions all guessing that their particular strain is the *only* religion. I also see that religion in the UK is dying out except for the primitive Muslim religions. It's true that as people get more informed and intelligent that they are realising how misguided they have been. It wasn't that long ago that people were worshipping the Moon/ the Sun and many other objects as their god. Even today there are Scientologist idiots believing in Aliens etc. If you read the Bible or the Koran, you'll see that they are both contradictory all the way through and the *believers* cherry pick what they want to hear. I don't think any individual religion has everything correct, but I do think many religions make an attempt to acknowledge that there is a greater power involved in our existence, which, in turn, acknowledges that mankind is not equivalent to being a god. IMO, there is too much evidence that it took intelligence to create everything we see around us. And it all happened only 6 thousand years ago? No. Hmm! this disagrees with you: The Biblical Age of the Earth - Truth In Genesis http://www.truthingenesis.com/2013/0...-of-the-earth/ 3 Jan 2013 - So, according to the Bible the earth is about 6000 years old. ... How long did Joshua march around the walls of Jericho anyway? ... He says, €œBy Periods God created that which produced the Solar Systems; then that which ... How many hours were in a day when Creation happened? What!!? In order to conclude that the Earth is 6000 years old, we have to define if a year was the same time increment when Creation happened. In recent history, time has been defined in seconds, minutes, hours, and years, etc., but how do we define time when Creation was taking place? -- Maggie |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 5/11/2016 12:49 PM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 18:22, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 12:21 PM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 18:01, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 11:26 AM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 17:09, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 3:02 AM, Bod wrote: On 10/05/2016 21:37, Muggles wrote: On 5/10/2016 2:22 PM, T wrote: On 05/08/2016 12:26 PM, Muggles wrote: On 5/8/2016 1:33 PM, Mr Macaw wrote: On Sun, 08 May 2016 04:03:28 +0100, Muggles wrote: On 5/7/2016 4:08 PM, Mr Macaw wrote: On Sat, 07 May 2016 21:36:25 +0100, Winston_Smith wrote: On Sat, 07 May 2016 21:09:27 +0100, "Mr Macaw" wrote: As intelligence increases with each generation, religion decreases. Can you prove a decrease in religion results in an increase of intelligence ? There seem to be examples to the contrary here. I'd say the increase in intelligence causes the decrease in religion. Clever folk realise what they've been taught is a load of ****e. Religion is only the outward expression of a desire or acknowledgement that a greater power exists beyond our own selves. Yes I know what religion is, and it's nonsensical. No, religion is a logical response to an inward sense that greatness exists outside of being human. There is no evidence of a greater power. Who designed the human nervous system? What sort of intelligence would it take to get it to function correctly? If there was one, there would be evidence, There is evidence, but even evidence is subject to your individual belief system. and if we have to worship it, he would ask for the worship. Would you want to have to ask, or would you want such adoration given freely to you? And looking around you, you see God's hand in everything. yeah ... Hmm, like some innocent babies being born blind/ limbless etc? sing "all things bright and wonderful, the lord god made them all". Then recite "god made all men equal" What a load of crap!! I've asked many questions, myself. As far as creation goes, including human beings, the rules were defined in the beginning. Babies being born blind or limbless and other such things happened after sin entered the world. There is now more chemicals and pollution that we're exposed to than there ever was, and that doesn't include what people voluntarily do to each other or themselves exposing themselves to all sorts of contaminates. I lost much of my hearing as a teen because I lived in a household with parents who smoked and secondhand smoke floated in the house constantly. It's a fact that me being exposed to those contaminates caused my hearing loss. We blame god for everything bad that happens to us, and don't take into consideration that perfection ended with creation after sin entered the world. That's my take on it, anyway. And why did god create such an awful thing to happen? After all, he supposedly created *everything*. God "created" everything "in the beginning". After creation, God didn't create anything new. Creation was the point at which all the physical laws of the universe were "created". That includes everything. sing " all things bright and beautiful, all creatures great and small. All things wise and wonderful, the lord god *made them all*. Please enlighten me! After Creation, in the beginning, man kind was given dominion over the Earth. We are responsible for "all things bright and beautiful, all creatures great and small, all things wise and wonderful". You haven't explained the incest, which obviously HAD to happen from Adam and Eve's offspring. Which is what I asked. I responded to your other post on the topic of incest. But you avoided explaining how *more* babies were created without incest occuring. I have since responded to another post. -- Maggie |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 5/11/2016 12:50 PM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 18:38, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 12:28 PM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 18:01, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 11:27 AM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 17:13, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 3:03 AM, Bod wrote: On 10/05/2016 21:41, Muggles wrote: It also helps when you have a personal relationship with Jesus (God) and one of his saints. Can we say "voices in our heads?" :-) ...a constant discussion and conversation, I'd say. Voices in the head is a sign of madness. Do you ever "think" about anything? Do you ever "contemplate" events, or remember your past, or rehearse future discussions you want to have with people in your head? Voices in the head are normal. It's just unspoken conversation and memories, whether it be from the past, or something inferred for the futures. I don't suffer with voices, but admit to having thoughts (like normal people do). A thought is just a voice we hear in our heads. No it's not, it's just a thought. The enemy within: People who hear voices in their heads are being ... www.independent.co.uk ۼ Lifestyle ۼ Health & Families ۼ Health News 25 Jan 2015 - One night, during her first year at the University of Sheffield, Rachel Waddingham struggled to fall asleep. She could hear three middle-aged ... I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Everything, including denotative meanings, imply that a voice does not have to be something that is spoken or audible. Ok. thanks -- Maggie |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 5/11/2016 12:55 PM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 18:41, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 12:32 PM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 18:08, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 11:32 AM, Bod wrote: And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. And that was the beginning of science. The universe was a creation of God and what we observed around us was nature, not the work of petty human like gods and magic. Glory be to God! -T String theory is really w-e-i-r-d. Indeed, very similar to many religions, like Scientology/ Jehovah Witlesses/ Moony loonies and Morons (sorry....Mormons, etc. One thing that is true about people who have a religious belief system is that people of all levels of intelligence BELIEVE. How do you explain that many very smart people still believe in a God? Many *smart people* have turned out to be conning thieving villains. So you can't measure by smartness. Then we can agree that ones intelligence has no bearing on belief in a higher power? Not necessarily, no. Maybe it depends whether they hear *voices in their heads*. Ok. But you said "you can't measure by smartness". Maybe, I didn't understand what you meant? I thought you meant that intelligent (smart) people couldn't really be intelligent if they believed in a God or higher power, and then you said "you can't measure by smartness"? To me, it sounds like you're contradicting yourself. Smart can be applied to a Jack the lad type of character as well as an astute businessman etc. Some people are smart at business, but lack common sense in other ways. I've worked with a top respected scientist who was the brains of his dep't, but was as thick as a brick with everyday liasons. Ok, I understand what you mean, and I do agree with you. I'm not sure how you apply smart to people who believe in a God, though. -- Maggie |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 11/05/2016 19:15, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 12:41 PM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 18:15, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 11:52 AM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 17:44, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 4:06 AM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 09:15, Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 10 May 2016 17:58:07 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 10 May 2016 14:29:30 -0700, T wrote: On 05/10/2016 02:10 PM, Mr Macaw wrote: On Tue, 10 May 2016 22:05:56 +0100, T wrote: On 05/10/2016 01:41 PM, Muggles wrote: I love to discuss quantum physics in relation to outer space in discussions about belief in God. How is time measured in space, how do we know time has always been constant there since many people like to put a number on the age of the universe and use that as evidence to estimate the age of the Earth. I've had some VERY interesting discussions like that! Hi Muggles, Something I have found interesting is Einstein's take on quantum physics. He did not believe it to be correct because "God is not random". And indeed the theory which is starting to replace quantum physics, called String Theory, is not random. I wonder how many more things Einstein could have discovered if he wasn't hampered by religion? Einstein was driven by "How did he do it". So I have to say, no. He probably would have just been mediocre. "hampered by religion"? You lead an insular life. Often times, those that say they don't believe in religion, get caught up in religions by other names, such a secular humanism, atheism, Liberalism, global warming (which is not science, but religoun). Liberalism, which tells you what you can eat, what you can wear, who you can speak with, what you can drive, yada, yada, yada, is far more restrictive than Christianity. Hell, Liberalism even tells you what you can think (political correctness). A lot of atheists are very religious people. More dogmatically narrow minded than the most devout Jew, Muslim, or southern Baptist Christian, by far. Well put. Gunner "Kill every first born"....now where did I hear that said?...hmm. Also....*Adam and Eve's incestuous family*...I heard that somewhere also. I also heard the story about this thing called god deliberately making childbirth extremely painful because of the actions of Adam & Eve. What a kind and loving god. Are you wanting to discuss each point individually? Ok, let's start with the incest please! OK ... tell me where incest was in Adam and Eve's family. 2 people...1 man ...1 woman. They have children, explain how their children created more babies without incest taking place? You may want to read the first 5 chapters of Genesis, but from what I've read and studied there are 2 explanations that I've read. One explanation that I've read via various commentaries and study is that "in the beginning" incest did not exist because marrying a relative wasn't considered to be incest. The gene pool at that time was not corrupted, therefore, incest did not produce children who were deformed, and marriage was a legitimate union between male and female. Another explanation is God made more people besides just Adam and Eve. That both Adam and Even were God's first man kind that he made, and that the word "man" was plural in some usages, not always singular by definition. The following reference says that when Cain was banished that he lived in a place called Nod, and there were people living there already because he found a wife there. It's established that Adam and Eve lived in Eden and that Cain could not have taken a wife until he was banished and went to the land of Nod. How did those people get there if they were not also created by God "in the beginning"? The text doesn't say how they got in Nod. ...... Reference: Gen 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. Gen 4:17- And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch. ...... The following text implies that God made Adam (him/singular), and God made male and female (them/plural), but it also defines male and female by the name of Adam(male and female/plural). So, it's possible when God created male and female, that male and female were plural, not singular, with God assigning Adam and Eve to take care of the Garden of Eden. ..... Reference: Genesis 5:1- This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created" ..... I haven't decided which possibility I agree with. So lots of could be's and maybe's. Nothing definitive then. -- Bod |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 5/11/2016 12:55 PM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 18:41, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 12:33 PM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 18:10, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 11:39 AM, Bod wrote: "Religion is a cultural system of behaviors and practices, world views, sacred texts, holy places, ethics, and societal organisation that relate humanity to what an anthropologist has called "an order of existence". "a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs ..." Technically, if a person identifies with a particular societal organization that shares a specific mindset relating to such things as stated above, it can be classified as a religion. So in your strange interpretation, I am an Atheist who doesn't believe in *any* religion, but I am religious!!?....hmm! No. I'm saying that the definition of a religion equates atheism as a religion. Being "religious" is a whole different practice. So I'm not religious, but I am? No. A "religion" is not the same thing as being "religious". But I'm *not* religious in any way shape or form. Being "religious" is a behavior, and a response to information that people live out on an every day basis. Here's an extended definition of "religious" that is not related to religion: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/religious Here are the non-religion applications to having behavior that is akin to "religious" behavior:(listed from the top to the bottom of the page) 3. Extremely scrupulous or conscientious: religious devotion to duty. 4. scrupulous, exact, or conscientious 4. religious - extremely scrupulous and conscientious; "religious in observing the rules of health"... scrupulous - having scruples; arising from a sense of right and wrong; principled; "less scrupulous producers sent bundles that were deceptive in appearance" 3. conscientious, exact, faithful, rigid, rigorous, meticulous, scrupulous, fastidious, unerring, unswerving, punctilious The clientele turned up, with religious regularity, every night. -- Maggie |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 11/05/2016 19:18, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 12:42 PM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 18:16, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 12:00 PM, Bod wrote: As I look around *me*, I see many different religions all guessing that their particular strain is the *only* religion. I also see that religion in the UK is dying out except for the primitive Muslim religions. It's true that as people get more informed and intelligent that they are realising how misguided they have been. It wasn't that long ago that people were worshipping the Moon/ the Sun and many other objects as their god. Even today there are Scientologist idiots believing in Aliens etc. If you read the Bible or the Koran, you'll see that they are both contradictory all the way through and the *believers* cherry pick what they want to hear. I don't think any individual religion has everything correct, but I do think many religions make an attempt to acknowledge that there is a greater power involved in our existence, which, in turn, acknowledges that mankind is not equivalent to being a god. IMO, there is too much evidence that it took intelligence to create everything we see around us. And it all happened only 6 thousand years ago? No. Hmm! this disagrees with you: The Biblical Age of the Earth - Truth In Genesis http://www.truthingenesis.com/2013/0...-of-the-earth/ 3 Jan 2013 - So, according to the Bible the earth is about 6000 years old. ... How long did Joshua march around the walls of Jericho anyway? ... He says, €œBy Periods God created that which produced the Solar Systems; then that which ... How many hours were in a day when Creation happened? What!!? In order to conclude that the Earth is 6000 years old, we have to define if a year was the same time increment when Creation happened. In recent history, time has been defined in seconds, minutes, hours, and years, etc., but how do we define time when Creation was taking place? But the Bible states 6,000 years ago. Time was no different 6,000 years ago. -- Bod |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 5/11/2016 12:56 PM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 18:43, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 12:37 PM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 18:12, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 11:43 AM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 17:32, Muggles wrote: guess you have never looked into someone's eyes and seen the love of God. Many people won't look others eye to eye because they can see into that person's soul what they are going through, or what they are about. Have you noticed that people don't like looking at each other eye to eye? I always do. Autistic people have trouble in looking into peoples eyes though. Only by looking into someone's eyes can you see their sincerity. That's very true. Wow!! we agree. :-) Yeah! Now, that we agree that you can see sincerity in someone's eyes, would you agree that you can see insincerity, too? Of course. Ok, would you define sincerity as good, and insincerity as bad, so you could actually say you can see good or bad in someones eyes? -- Maggie |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 5/11/2016 12:58 PM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 18:44, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 12:39 PM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 18:14, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 11:50 AM, Bod wrote: However, it doesn't have connections with "sacred texts, or holy places" except to deny such things are valid. Atheism DOES relate to and adhere to beliefs in regards to ethics, and societal organisation that relate humanity to what an anthropologist has called "an order of existence". A religion isn't necessarily about the sacred or holy or even about a belief in a god. It is a belief system that has both a connotative and denotative understanding of how it is defined and what is involved in its practices. religion noun "the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods". That is ONE denotative definition of religion, but in order to be thorough, it is a good idea to view the whole picture of how "religion" is defined, vs. only quoting one narrow definition that may or may not support ones own viewpoint, don't you agree? If one is not religious, then they are NOT religious, no matter how you twist the meaning. One can be "religious" without any affiliation with a specific "religion". Hmm! you've lost me there. See another post where I go into more detail. -- Maggie |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 5/11/2016 1:01 PM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 18:58, RonNNN wrote: In article , says... Are you wanting to discuss each point individually? Ok, let's start with the incest please! OK ... tell me where incest was in Adam and Eve's family. 2 people...1 man ...1 woman. They have children, explain how their children created more babies without incest taking place? You will *NOT* get an answer to your question from "Muggles". Anyone who has ever gotten into a "debate" with her knows this already. Thanks for the heads up. I could see her wriggling though. You and I are having a discussion. I'm not wriggling, and don't need anyone to back me up or kibitz in order to influence my position. IOW, I will hold my own in this discussion. Can you? -- Maggie |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 11/05/2016 19:21, Muggles wrote:
On 5/11/2016 12:55 PM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 18:41, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 12:32 PM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 18:08, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 11:32 AM, Bod wrote: And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. And that was the beginning of science. The universe was a creation of God and what we observed around us was nature, not the work of petty human like gods and magic. Glory be to God! -T String theory is really w-e-i-r-d. Indeed, very similar to many religions, like Scientology/ Jehovah Witlesses/ Moony loonies and Morons (sorry....Mormons, etc. One thing that is true about people who have a religious belief system is that people of all levels of intelligence BELIEVE. How do you explain that many very smart people still believe in a God? Many *smart people* have turned out to be conning thieving villains. So you can't measure by smartness. Then we can agree that ones intelligence has no bearing on belief in a higher power? Not necessarily, no. Maybe it depends whether they hear *voices in their heads*. Ok. But you said "you can't measure by smartness". Maybe, I didn't understand what you meant? I thought you meant that intelligent (smart) people couldn't really be intelligent if they believed in a God or higher power, and then you said "you can't measure by smartness"? To me, it sounds like you're contradicting yourself. Smart can be applied to a Jack the lad type of character as well as an astute businessman etc. Some people are smart at business, but lack common sense in other ways. I've worked with a top respected scientist who was the brains of his dep't, but was as thick as a brick with everyday liasons. Ok, I understand what you mean, and I do agree with you. I'm not sure how you apply smart to people who believe in a God, though. I don't equate being smart with religion. -- Bod |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On 5/11/2016 1:25 PM, Bod wrote:
On 11/05/2016 19:15, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 12:41 PM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 18:15, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 11:52 AM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 17:44, Muggles wrote: On 5/11/2016 4:06 AM, Bod wrote: On 11/05/2016 09:15, Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 10 May 2016 17:58:07 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 10 May 2016 14:29:30 -0700, T wrote: On 05/10/2016 02:10 PM, Mr Macaw wrote: On Tue, 10 May 2016 22:05:56 +0100, T wrote: On 05/10/2016 01:41 PM, Muggles wrote: I love to discuss quantum physics in relation to outer space in discussions about belief in God. How is time measured in space, how do we know time has always been constant there since many people like to put a number on the age of the universe and use that as evidence to estimate the age of the Earth. I've had some VERY interesting discussions like that! Hi Muggles, Something I have found interesting is Einstein's take on quantum physics. He did not believe it to be correct because "God is not random". And indeed the theory which is starting to replace quantum physics, called String Theory, is not random. I wonder how many more things Einstein could have discovered if he wasn't hampered by religion? Einstein was driven by "How did he do it". So I have to say, no. He probably would have just been mediocre. "hampered by religion"? You lead an insular life. Often times, those that say they don't believe in religion, get caught up in religions by other names, such a secular humanism, atheism, Liberalism, global warming (which is not science, but religoun). Liberalism, which tells you what you can eat, what you can wear, who you can speak with, what you can drive, yada, yada, yada, is far more restrictive than Christianity. Hell, Liberalism even tells you what you can think (political correctness). A lot of atheists are very religious people. More dogmatically narrow minded than the most devout Jew, Muslim, or southern Baptist Christian, by far. Well put. Gunner "Kill every first born"....now where did I hear that said?...hmm. Also....*Adam and Eve's incestuous family*...I heard that somewhere also. I also heard the story about this thing called god deliberately making childbirth extremely painful because of the actions of Adam & Eve. What a kind and loving god. Are you wanting to discuss each point individually? Ok, let's start with the incest please! OK ... tell me where incest was in Adam and Eve's family. 2 people...1 man ...1 woman. They have children, explain how their children created more babies without incest taking place? You may want to read the first 5 chapters of Genesis, but from what I've read and studied there are 2 explanations that I've read. One explanation that I've read via various commentaries and study is that "in the beginning" incest did not exist because marrying a relative wasn't considered to be incest. The gene pool at that time was not corrupted, therefore, incest did not produce children who were deformed, and marriage was a legitimate union between male and female. Another explanation is God made more people besides just Adam and Eve. That both Adam and Even were God's first man kind that he made, and that the word "man" was plural in some usages, not always singular by definition. The following reference says that when Cain was banished that he lived in a place called Nod, and there were people living there already because he found a wife there. It's established that Adam and Eve lived in Eden and that Cain could not have taken a wife until he was banished and went to the land of Nod. How did those people get there if they were not also created by God "in the beginning"? The text doesn't say how they got in Nod. ...... Reference: Gen 4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden. Gen 4:17- And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch. ...... The following text implies that God made Adam (him/singular), and God made male and female (them/plural), but it also defines male and female by the name of Adam(male and female/plural). So, it's possible when God created male and female, that male and female were plural, not singular, with God assigning Adam and Eve to take care of the Garden of Eden. ..... Reference: Genesis 5:1- This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him; Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created" ..... I haven't decided which possibility I agree with. So lots of could be's and maybe's. Nothing definitive then. In all my years of studying the Bible, commentaries, and researching it I've not come across "lot's of" other explanations. For thousands of years incest was not defined in any sense that it's defined in recent history. Marriage between relatives was not considered immoral or illegal, let alone incest, and incest has only been a concept that became both immoral and illegal as a result of the issues with the children's birth defects produced from such unions. So, "in the beginning", as far as I can tell from everything I've read, incest did not exist. -- Maggie |
Flashlight temptation (initial follow up report 3)
On Wed, 11 May 2016 09:16:35 +0100, Bod wrote:
On 10/05/2016 22:29, T wrote: On 05/10/2016 02:10 PM, Mr Macaw wrote: On Tue, 10 May 2016 22:05:56 +0100, T wrote: On 05/10/2016 01:41 PM, Muggles wrote: I love to discuss quantum physics in relation to outer space in discussions about belief in God. How is time measured in space, how do we know time has always been constant there since many people like to put a number on the age of the universe and use that as evidence to estimate the age of the Earth. I've had some VERY interesting discussions like that! Hi Muggles, Something I have found interesting is Einstein's take on quantum physics. He did not believe it to be correct because "God is not random". And indeed the theory which is starting to replace quantum physics, called String Theory, is not random. I wonder how many more things Einstein could have discovered if he wasn't hampered by religion? Einstein was driven by "How did he do it". So I have to say, no. He probably would have just been mediocre. "hampered by religion"? You lead an insular life. Often times, those that say they don't believe in religion, get caught up in religions by other names, such a secular humanism, atheism, Liberalism, global warming (which is not science, but religoun). Liberalism, which tells you what you can eat, what you can wear, who you can speak with, what you can drive, yada, yada, yada, is far more restrictive than Christianity. Hell, Liberalism even tells you what you can think (political correctness). A lot of atheists are very religious people. Oh dear, you are so deluded that you even change the meaning of words to suit yourself. Atheism noun "a disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods". Relion - noun " A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader." |
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