On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 9:16:12 PM UTC-5, Danny DiAmico wrote:
On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 14:15:03 -0700, Oren wrote:

A one inch wide flexible putty knife might git under and it a git it
done. Don't use Mon's butter knives for screwdrivers. You have been
warned.

Hi Oren,
Opening the door turned out to be easy.

In the WFW8410SW, Whirlpool duet Sport Washing Machine, there is a
special pull tab for opening the door.

Here is a picture of it in my washing machine:
http://c74i.imgup.net/pulltab19b0a.gif

It appears that an engineer was thinking the day that was added. I wonder how hard he/she/it had to argue with the bean counters to justify the extra cost? ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Thinking Monster

On 4/25/2016 7:04 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 14:35:15 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 4/25/2016 2:02 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:52:41 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 4/25/2016 12:10 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 1:45:51 PM UTC-5, Danny DiAmico wrote:
On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 01:09:48 -0700, Don Y wrote:

Note the procedure must be followed "to the letter". Also note the
serial numbers for which that document applies. There are probably
different sequences required to activate these modes on different
versions of the "same" product (model numbers and names are only loosely
correlated).

I think the problem is that those (otherwise very nice) diagnostic-test
instructions are for a newer model, as mine is a Duet Sport model number
WFW8410SW.

I didn't have this information before, because the door won't open (which
is where the sticker is); but I checked my records and my duet is the
"8410", which doesn't have the blueish display screen that you see in the
ones described at that (otherwise nice) web page.

Do *any* of the buttons respond (by changing the displayed indicators)
-- or are the displays "frozen", regardless of what you do?

All the buttons do all the right things. Everything lights up normally
when I press the buttons. The only things that don't work, really, is that
the door is locked and the washer won't start when I press the Start
button.

All indicators respond normally otherwise.

I was just thinking if the door latch is out of adjustment just a little,
the interlock could keep the washer from starting. I'd try banging on the
door latch with my fist to see if that could be the problem. ^_^

The latch mechanism is under a fair bit of tension. It's possible that
the mechanism "exploded" (there's a REALLY stiff spring inside to hold
the latch open/closed -- it remains locked/unlocked in the absence of
power so the spring provides that "holding power") and caused the
noise.

But, a latch stuck locked wouldn't prevent the cycle from starting;
the machine WANTS the door to be latched!

If the latch blew up holding the door closed but the switch was thrown
to the other side of the washer and thinks the door is open, you would
have that situation.

No, you would have an error indication saying "I won't start
the cycle because you have the door open". Or, a simple
"door open"/"add garment" indicator.

Except when I posted the OP had not been able to find any error codes.

Doesn't matter. He said it wouldn't start. He said it wouldn't
CANCEL (stop). If you know how a front loader works, you'd realize his
attempting these two things with the washer would have had it try
to LOCK and UNLOCK the door. If either was not possible, it would
have signalled an error. So, it was "preoccupied" with some other
problem

He had long ago posted the model number. Did you attempt to find any
documentation about the product? Or, did you just "shoot from the hip"?

http://applianceassistant.com/ServiceManuals/8178558_l-78_whirlpool_duet_front-loading_automatic_washer.pdf

(different, but similar, model)

Note the POSSIBLE error codes (page 6-2 onward).

"FAILURE/ERROR DISPLAY CODES Communication of failure codes will
be displayed on the washer console by all cycle lights flashing
and standing status lights."

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 19:38:21 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 4/25/2016 7:04 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 14:35:15 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 4/25/2016 2:02 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:52:41 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 4/25/2016 12:10 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Monday, April 25, 2016 at 1:45:51 PM UTC-5, Danny DiAmico wrote:
On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 01:09:48 -0700, Don Y wrote:

Note the procedure must be followed "to the letter". Also note the
serial numbers for which that document applies. There are probably
different sequences required to activate these modes on different
versions of the "same" product (model numbers and names are only loosely
correlated).

I think the problem is that those (otherwise very nice) diagnostic-test
instructions are for a newer model, as mine is a Duet Sport model number
WFW8410SW.

I didn't have this information before, because the door won't open (which
is where the sticker is); but I checked my records and my duet is the
"8410", which doesn't have the blueish display screen that you see in the
ones described at that (otherwise nice) web page.

Do *any* of the buttons respond (by changing the displayed indicators)
-- or are the displays "frozen", regardless of what you do?

All the buttons do all the right things. Everything lights up normally
when I press the buttons. The only things that don't work, really, is that
the door is locked and the washer won't start when I press the Start
button.

All indicators respond normally otherwise.

I was just thinking if the door latch is out of adjustment just a little,
the interlock could keep the washer from starting. I'd try banging on the
door latch with my fist to see if that could be the problem. ^_^

The latch mechanism is under a fair bit of tension. It's possible that
the mechanism "exploded" (there's a REALLY stiff spring inside to hold
the latch open/closed -- it remains locked/unlocked in the absence of
power so the spring provides that "holding power") and caused the
noise.

But, a latch stuck locked wouldn't prevent the cycle from starting;
the machine WANTS the door to be latched!

If the latch blew up holding the door closed but the switch was thrown
to the other side of the washer and thinks the door is open, you would
have that situation.

No, you would have an error indication saying "I won't start
the cycle because you have the door open". Or, a simple
"door open"/"add garment" indicator.

Except when I posted the OP had not been able to find any error codes.

Doesn't matter. He said it wouldn't start. He said it wouldn't
CANCEL (stop). If you know how a front loader works, you'd realize his
attempting these two things with the washer would have had it try
to LOCK and UNLOCK the door. If either was not possible, it would
have signalled an error. So, it was "preoccupied" with some other
problem

OK - so it would give an error - UNLESS there was a communication
error of some sort. Which, according to the error code that finally
came up, happens to be the case..

Let's wait till we find out what REALLY happened.
He had long ago posted the model number. Did you attempt to find any
documentation about the product?

No I didn't look it up. I
Or, did you just "shoot from the hip"?

No more "shooting from the hip" than anyone else throwing their
guesses around. Nowhere did I say the latch was the problem. I just
said "if" it was a latch problem, which someone ELSE said sounded like
the problem - and SOMEONE said it couldn't be because the latch
swotch would not indicate the door was open if the latch failed. -

I just said it depends how the laztch failed the machine COULD have a
door stuck closed and indicate open due to a blown latch.. And would
it REALLY try to unlock the door if it sensed the door was already
open?? Would it try to lock an open door??

It SHOULD indicate the door was open - I agree.

But if the door switch grounded something that shouldn't have been
grounded as it flew across the front of the machine it MAY have
caused other logic problems - possibly even a "communication problem"
- not saying it did - not saying it even definitely COULD - I'm not
going to troubleshoot a machine by "remote control"

http://applianceassistant.com/ServiceManuals/8178558_l-78_whirlpool_duet_front-loading_automatic_washer.pdf

(different, but similar, model)

Similar doesn't mean any of the control circuitry is anywhere close -
or even the error codes.

Note the POSSIBLE error codes (page 6-2 onward).

"FAILURE/ERROR DISPLAY CODES Communication of failure codes will
be displayed on the washer console by all cycle lights flashing
and standing status lights."
I wouldn't buy the duet anyways - there were too many reported
problems with the model when we bought our new washer/drier pair about
5 years ago.

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 19:28:49 -0700, Uncle Monster wrote:

It appears that an engineer was thinking the day that was added.
I wonder how hard he/she/it had to argue with the bean counters to
justify the extra cost? ^_^

Yeah. It was nice the door opened so easily with that pull tab
made expressly for that purpose.
http://c74i.imgup.net/pulltab19b0a.gif

All I needed to do was remove the lower panel, which contained
this instruction manual, hidden inside:
http://v62i.imgup.net/instruccti9bd5.gif

Then, there was this drain plug:
http://t23i.imgup.net/drain27a1.gif

Which, when loosened, leaked very little water (1/4 inch or so):
http://t41i.imgup.net/leak5a84.gif

Unfortunately, the drain plug broke in half when I twisted it out:
http://b28i.imgup.net/broken_plu6163.gif

So I will have to deal with that problem later.

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 22:04:50 -0400, clare wrote:

Except when I posted the OP had not been able to find any error codes.

That was my mistake to not have the F28 error code earlier, and I'm sorry
I didn't have that information for you when I last posted. The instructions
given were for a *newer* model washer, so I had to wait until I found
the instructions hidden inside my washer to generate that F28 code.
http://v62i.imgup.net/instruccti9bd5.gif

That one error code for the Whirlpool duet sport WFW8410SW washer
was F28, which is a communication error between the computer board
(CCU) and the motor control board (MCU) and perhaps the lower and
back panel grounding switches.
http://g31i.imgup.net/f28d702.gif

The ground straps seem to have good contact, so, I think it's
the MMU or the CCU but I don't know yet what to do next.
http://u33i.imgup.net/groundstraebd1.gif

I wiggled all the wires of the CCU, to no avail:
http://h65i.imgup.net/ccub218.gif

And I wiggled all the wires around the surprisingly small motor
noting that the belt seemed to be intact and in good shape:
http://a26i.imgup.net/motor8386.gif

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 19:38:21 -0700, Don Y wrote:

Note the POSSIBLE error codes (page 6-2 onward).

"FAILURE/ERROR DISPLAY CODES Communication of failure codes will
be displayed on the washer console by all cycle lights flashing
and standing status lights."

I found the manual for the WFW8410SW hidden inside the lower panel:
http://v62i.imgup.net/instruccti9bd5.gif

You are indeed correct that the F28 error I have is a "communications
error", most likely between the main computer and the motor controller
(which converts single-phase AC voltage to three phase).

Right now I'm just trying to identify the parts I see so that I
can piece together how the darn thing works - so that I can then
piece together how to test what's not working.

For example, these are clearly the hot and cold water valves:
http://k55i.imgup.net/watervalve2761.gif

This round thing is in the back right top corner, near where the electrical
power comes into the washer, but I don't know what it is yet (maybe a vacuum
valve of some sort?):
http://w48i.imgup.net/roundthingd36d.gif

But this is a black object where the power comes into the washer
that I don't know what it does and where the wife said the sound
seemed to have come from.
http://y70i.imgup.net/black_powee64f.gif

It doesn't seem burnt though but what is it?

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 23:07:35 -0400, clare wrote:

I wouldn't buy the duet anyways - there were too many reported
problems with the model when we bought our new washer/drier pair about
5 years ago.

Besides the drain cap breaking in half when I removed it today (leaving
the important half stuck solid inside the drain tube):
http://b28i.imgup.net/broken_plu6163.gif

I noticed why the detergent dispenser hasn't been working for the past
two years!
http://p82i.imgup.net/dispenser5571.gif

The dispenser arm had completely come off its pivot point!
http://u13i.imgup.net/diispenser3376.gif

That's not the problem, but, it does show a bad design for the
arm. I don't know how it goes back but it looks pretty easy to
put together (after I clean it up with some vinegar later).

Here's how I "think" it goes back together, but I'm not gonna
worry about it right now as that is not the problem I'm trying
to solve at the moment:
http://s48i.imgup.net/armputback931f.gif

BTW, does anyone know if there is anything holding the lever to
the pivot point? Is it just a press fit? No bolt?

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 23:10:42 +0000, Danny DiAmico wrote:

According to this article, the solution might be as simple as rebooting
the computer! http://www.ehow.com/how_8052747_fix-...pool-duet.html

That was just wishful thinking.

So was hoping there was something wrong with the power supply:
http://r65i.imgup.net/120vb16b.gif

On 4/25/2016 8:51 PM, Danny DiAmico wrote:
On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 19:38:21 -0700, Don Y wrote:

Note the POSSIBLE error codes (page 6-2 onward).

"FAILURE/ERROR DISPLAY CODES Communication of failure codes will
be displayed on the washer console by all cycle lights flashing
and standing status lights."

I found the manual for the WFW8410SW hidden inside the lower panel:
http://v62i.imgup.net/instruccti9bd5.gif

You are indeed correct that the F28 error I have is a "communications
error", most likely between the main computer and the motor controller
(which converts single-phase AC voltage to three phase).

Right now I'm just trying to identify the parts I see so that I
can piece together how the darn thing works - so that I can then
piece together how to test what's not working.

For example, these are clearly the hot and cold water valves:
http://k55i.imgup.net/watervalve2761.gif

This round thing is in the back right top corner, near where the electrical
power comes into the washer, but I don't know what it is yet (maybe a vacuum
valve of some sort?):
http://w48i.imgup.net/roundthingd36d.gif

But this is a black object where the power comes into the washer
that I don't know what it does and where the wife said the sound
seemed to have come from.
http://y70i.imgup.net/black_powee64f.gif

It doesn't seem burnt though but what is it?

The link that I posted (two lines up from the portion you quoted above)
answers all your questions.

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 16:52:14 -0700, Don Y wrote:

Did you run all of the other "tests" to see which pass and
which fail? And, what they have in common?

I have the diagnostic manual that was hidden under the bottom cover
but NONE of the subsequent tests do a thing after I get the F28
communications error.
http://d04i.imgup.net/diagnostic43d3.gif

The motor control board no doubt has a high voltage rectifier (to convert
the 120VAC from your mains to ~160VDC) and "switching logic" (FETs)
to control the application of that power to the windings of the
motor -- in a controlled fashion (a "variable frequency drive").

Maybe this black object where the power comes in is the rectifier?
http://y70i.imgup.net/black_powee64f.gif

The box doesn't look burnt, but the wife said the popping sound came from
that right top back corner - so it may have blown without showing
any ill effects on the outside.

Gain access to the drive motor. Unplug the wiring harness from that
motor. Check for continuity between each pair of pins. You're
not just looking for "continuity" but are actually trying to quantify
the resistance between each pair of pins AND THE MOTOR CASE.
You'll expect to see a low reading (5-10 ohms). If you see anything
higher, a winding is "open". Anything lower (esp '0'!) is a short.

I can see the motor, but I might need to remove the back in order to
better access the motor. The manual that I found inside does give me
ohms to look for in the wiring continuity:
http://a26i.imgup.net/motor8386.gif

Point of this is to decide if you ALSO need a new motor (chances are,
you DO need a new motor controller).

My task now is to identify all the objects I can see inside, and
then to figure out what they fundamentally do and then to figure out
how to test them.

You can then remove the motor controller and give it a once-over
for cosmetic damage. It may be sensational -- or, may be difficult
to notice. Compare similar components to each other, carefully
(there are probably 3 or 4 identical circuits driving the motor
and a "chip"/computer driving those circuits.

The motor controller is hard to snap a photo of because it's down
low and deep in back so I may need to remove the back panel to
access its wires.
http://l00i.imgup.net/motorcontr3723.gif

It's possible that you just have a bad connection in one of the
cables (water can be very corrosive; things can vibrate loose, etc.)
but SOMETHING gave up the ghost.

I wiggled all the connections, but nothing changed.

Here's the CCU controller near the top front right corner:
http://h65i.imgup.net/ccub218.gif

I think the most likely thing is that the "black box" in the top
left back right corner blew internally - but I need to figure out
what it is before I can even think of testing it.
http://y70i.imgup.net/black_powee64f.gif

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 12:14:52 -0700, Don Y wrote:

- select a button
- press (and hold) it for 4 seconds
- release for 4 seconds
- press (and hold) it for 4 seconds
- release for 4 seconds
- press (and hold) it for 4 seconds

That did the trick.
F28.
Communications Error.
No other errors.
http://g31i.imgup.net/f28d702.gif

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 17:05:49 -0400, hubops wrote:

From what I have read so far - this is where I'd start.
Try pressing the door in and out ; maybe jiggle up & down slightly -
to see if anything happens -
.. with power on - to generate an error code ?
Pop the lid & examine the door lock mechanism -
carefully - in case the spring is waiting to bite you ..

Door lock appears to be working perfectly.
http://w25i.imgup.net/doorlockc3d4.gif

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 13:54:30 -0700, Oren wrote:

Guest are like trash -- take it out every three (3) days ...

Seriously. Have you mentioned to the kids about the rattlesnakes,
yet?

Ah, you remember that rattler, you do.
I wish I had a picture of her.

I have found a half dozen since, but now I know EXACTLY what to
look for!

I almost got bit by the pool, bending over to clean out the pool
pumps, but I catch them now and throw them about a mile away
from a five gallon bucket so that they can live, but somewhere
else.

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 13:45:36 -0700, Oren wrote:

I'm talking about the washer control panel. Look behind it for
evidence of scorched areas. Directly behind the start / cancel button
pads.

I tried removing that panel, but they must have put the NSA wire tap
there because I can't figure out how to remove that front panel yet.
http://v52i.imgup.net/frontpanel5fd7.gif

What I need to find are disassembly instructions for the Whirlpool
WFW8410SW.

In article ,
Danny DiAmico wrote:

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 04:49:33 -0700, Uncle Monster wrote:

Did your wife smell anything burning. All these newfangled
electronically controlled appliances have components that contain "Magic
Smoke" which is necessary for the electronics to operate. When the MS
escapes, the appliance stops working. The age of your appliance could
mean that an electronic component called an "electrolytic capacitor" has
failed. Unfortunately, manufacturers often save a few cents on parts by
purchasing components that just meet the requirements to make the unit
work. The bane of modern electronic devices is the inexpensive
electrolytics that manufacturers seem to be fond of using. Anyone who
works with electronics can spot a failed electrolytic capacitor because
it has swelled or is leaking. Here's a video of a fellow replacing some
failed electrolytic capacitors in a TV set. This will give you some idea
of what to look for on your washer's control board or power supply. ^_^


There was absolutely no smell, although we used to blow up electrolytic
caps (the blue unipolar water tank type) by sticking them in outlets in
physics class and then waiting for some unsuspecting student to turn
the lights on in the Physics lab - and I don't remember any smell at
that time.

Why were the outlets and the lights on the same circuit?

We had power strips on the work benches that were turned on when you
came in to work in the morning. It would have worked ther.


--
charles

On Mon, 25 Apr 2016 21:53:48 -0700, Charles Bishop wrote:

Why were the outlets and the lights on the same circuit?

I don't remember if it was one switch or two.
I remember that the switch was just inside the doorway to the lab.
So, it was usually turned on by the first person who entered the lab.

The lab itself had these long countertops down the length of the lab.
At about eye level were the outlets.
The caps we stuck in the outlets and I "do" remember the labs being
dark when nobody was in there (even then, we were aware someone could
be hurt but we didn't worry about it because we associated the darkness
with nobody being in there). yes, we were kids

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 09:40:42 +0000, Danny DiAmico wrote:

The lab itself had these long countertops down the length of the lab.
At about eye level were the outlets.
The caps we stuck in the outlets and I "do" remember the labs being
dark when nobody was in there (even then, we were aware someone could
be hurt but we didn't worry about it because we associated the darkness
with nobody being in there). yes, we were kids

PS: Don't remind me the time we took nitric acid, as I recall, and
poured it into beakers containing iodine crystals and then dried it with
either ether or alcohol (as I recall) and then painted anything we wanted
e.g., the chemistry lab countertops, with the wet (stable) nitrogen
tri-iodide paste.

When that stuff dries, it's so unstable, even a fly landing on it
will cause it to explode (little purple cloud bursts sporadically
popping all over the place!).

yes, we were kids once

In article ,
says...

PS: Don't remind me the time we took nitric acid, as I recall, and
poured it into beakers containing iodine crystals and then dried it with
either ether or alcohol (as I recall) and then painted anything we wanted
e.g., the chemistry lab countertops, with the wet (stable) nitrogen
tri-iodide paste.

The recipe I used (and the only one I've heard of) uses ammonia as a
source of nitrogen, not acid.

Mike.

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 14:56:42 +0100, MJC wrote:

The recipe I used (and the only one I've heard of) uses ammonia as a
source of nitrogen, not acid.

I could be remembering it wrong as it was a few decades ago.
It was chem lab, so, there was everything available.

We may have used the nitric acid with the cotton balls ...

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 04:31:34 -0000 (UTC), Danny DiAmico
wrote:

I tried removing that panel, but they must have put the NSA wire tap
there because I can't figure out how to remove that front panel yet.
http://v52i.imgup.net/frontpanel5fd7.gif

What I need to find are disassembly instructions for the Whirlpool
WFW8410SW.

See if this helps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5l1fZHW0upw

(good source for parts)

http://www.repairclinic.com/Shop-For-Parts/a11b5d895433/Model-WFW8410SW0-Whirlpool-Washing-Machine-Parts

Danny DiAmico wrote:



The ground straps seem to have good contact, so, I think it's
the MMU or the CCU but I don't know yet what to do next.
http://u33i.imgup.net/groundstraebd1.gif
Since the CCU is powered up and communicating with the buttons and
indicators, it is likely OK. Since there was a big POP, and the CCU can't
communicate with the MCU, which is where all the big power circuitry is, it
seems REALLY likely something in the MCU popped. When you get it out, I
think you are likely to find visible damage.

Jon

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 14:56:09 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:

Since the CCU is powered up and communicating with the buttons and
indicators, it is likely OK. Since there was a big POP, and the CCU can't
communicate with the MCU, which is where all the big power circuitry is, it
seems REALLY likely something in the MCU popped. When you get it out, I
think you are likely to find visible damage.

Thank you for that advice.

I'm kind of stuck like a deer in the headlights at this point because
I have to diagnose if it's the CCU or the MCU (or the power rectifier).

I'm kind of at a loss for diagnostic procedures because the diagnostic
test described in the manual didn't kick in.

Danny DiAmico wrote:

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 14:56:09 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:

Since the CCU is powered up and communicating with the buttons and
indicators, it is likely OK. Since there was a big POP, and the CCU
can't communicate with the MCU, which is where all the big power
circuitry is, it
seems REALLY likely something in the MCU popped. When you get it out, I
think you are likely to find visible damage.

Thank you for that advice.

I'm kind of stuck like a deer in the headlights at this point because
I have to diagnose if it's the CCU or the MCU (or the power rectifier).

I'm kind of at a loss for diagnostic procedures because the diagnostic
test described in the manual didn't kick in.
Just pull the MCU and examine it closely. If you can't find anything
burned, then it gets harder. But, if there was a loud POP, I think you WILL
find visible damage. It is possible that there is a fuse on that board, and
the failure of the fuse under hard short conditions made the noise. So, Ohm
out any fuses you find.

Jon

Danny DiAmico wrote in
:

Subject: Advice requested Whirlpool Duet Sport Washing Machine
"popped" From: Danny DiAmico
Newsgroups: alt.home.repair,sci.electronics.repair


Well Danny D, there you be. Long time no see. You still living up in the
hills outside Sacramento or or San Jose or wherever? Did you ever get your
water storage problem worked out?

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:58:56 +0000, Zak W wrote:

Well Danny D, there you be. Long time no see. You still living up in the
hills outside Sacramento or or San Jose or wherever? Did you ever get your
water storage problem worked out?

Yea, we formed a neighbourhood committee to inspect and periodically check on
the water supply up here. After about six months of pumping, the one gray
well turned out to be crystalline clear (for now), so, that's been fixed.

Meanwhile, we formed a mesh Internet network, and we cleaned entire hillsides
of poison oak (see picture I just posted below from that last endeavor):
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917454.jpg

We cleaned up the hillside of old washing machines and tires too!

And, you should see many thousands of Scotch Broom we pulled out after
the last good drenching (the tap roots only come out when the ground
is literally soaked).

So, um, yeah. We've been busy in the boonies of Silicon Valley.

On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 22:42:03 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:

Just pull the MCU and examine it closely. If you can't find anything
burned, then it gets harder. But, if there was a loud POP, I think you WILL
find visible damage. It is possible that there is a fuse on that board, and
the failure of the fuse under hard short conditions made the noise. So, Ohm
out any fuses you find.

I will have to start pulling the two cpu's because I don't know what else
to do to narrow it down to the actual failed part.

On 4/27/2016 11:41 AM, Danny DiAmico wrote:
On Tue, 26 Apr 2016 22:42:03 -0500, Jon Elson wrote:

Just pull the MCU and examine it closely. If you can't find anything
burned, then it gets harder. But, if there was a loud POP, I think you WILL
find visible damage. It is possible that there is a fuse on that board, and
the failure of the fuse under hard short conditions made the noise. So, Ohm
out any fuses you find.

I will have to start pulling the two cpu's because I don't know what else
to do to narrow it down to the actual failed part.

The motor controller is the problem. The control panel is operating properly
(it lights up, responds to pushbuttons, etc.)

Unlikely that the "fuse" was the problem -- though *a* fuse may have
opened.

As I indicated elsewhere, check the motor, first -- as it is possible
that it has a shorted winding which led to the motor controller
giving up the ghost. You will find some component with a hole/gouge
in it -- the "pop" being the sound made as the plastic "exploded"
from a dramatic/sudden increase in temperature (from the "short")

The rectifier on the AC mains may have explosively failed due to a short
in the load (i.e., motor). Or, one of the switching "transistors" on
the controller (that drives the motors windings to cause it to "turn").

The link I provided (somewhere in this meandering thread) provides all
the information you need to diagnose the problem. From there, to
decide if you want to replace modules (as I suspect you don't have the
skillset to REPAIR them) or replace the entire machine (you're looking at
a couple hundred dollars -- unless you can find some "pulls" on ebay)

- out -

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 18:38:53 -0000 (UTC), Danny DiAmico
wrote in

On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:58:56 +0000, Zak W wrote:

Well Danny D, there you be. Long time no see. You still living up in the
hills outside Sacramento or or San Jose or wherever? Did you ever get your
water storage problem worked out?

Yea, we formed a neighbourhood committee to inspect and periodically check on
the water supply up here. After about six months of pumping, the one gray
well turned out to be crystalline clear (for now), so, that's been fixed.

Meanwhile, we formed a mesh Internet network, and we cleaned entire hillsides
of poison oak (see picture I just posted below from that last endeavor):
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/11917454.jpg

We cleaned up the hillside of old washing machines and tires too!

And, you should see many thousands of Scotch Broom we pulled out after
the last good drenching (the tap roots only come out when the ground
is literally soaked).

So, um, yeah. We've been busy in the boonies of Silicon Valley.

Well done. It's good to see that kind of community-based planning,
cooperation and action.
--
Web based forums are like subscribing to 10 different newspapers
and having to visit 10 different news stands to pickup each one.
Email list-server groups and USENET are like having all of those
newspapers delivered to your door every morning.

Danny DiAmico posted for all of us...



On Wed, 27 Apr 2016 17:58:56 +0000, Zak W wrote:

Well Danny D, there you be. Long time no see. You still living up in the
hills outside Sacramento or or San Jose or wherever? Did you ever get your
water storage problem worked out?

Yea, we formed a neighbourhood committee to inspect and periodically check on
the water supply up here. After about six months of pumping, the one gray
well turned out to be crystalline clear (for now), so, that's been fixed.


So, um, yeah. We've been busy in the boonies of Silicon Valley.

Glad to hear the gray well water cleaned up. Was the real problem ever
determined?

--
Tekkie

On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 14:39:57 -0400, Tekkie®
wrote:

Well Danny D, there you be. Long time no see. You still living up in the
hills outside Sacramento or or San Jose or wherever? Did you ever get your
water storage problem worked out?

Yea, we formed a neighbourhood committee to inspect and periodically check on
the water supply up here. After about six months of pumping, the one gray
well turned out to be crystalline clear (for now), so, that's been fixed.


So, um, yeah. We've been busy in the boonies of Silicon Valley.

Glad to hear the gray well water cleaned up. Was the real problem ever
determined?

Yeah Huckleberry. How's the tree house, and pool going? wink

Did you ever put a gate on the fence to the forest?

On 4/24/2016 6:37 PM, Danny DiAmico wrote:
Hi Guys,

Any washing machine experienced folks here?

Wife pressed the "Power" button on the Costco Whirlpool Duet Sport washing
machine and then, when she pressed the separate "Start" button, something
popped. She said it sounded like a sharp crack, like a "bottle breaking".

It has power (although I cycled the home circuit breakers anyway), but it
won't do anything now when the "Start" button is pressed (nor when the
"Cancel" button is pressed). All the lights on the front light up normally
(it seems).

So, it will power up, but it won't do anything (e.g., no water turns on
and no spinning occurs - in fact, there are no sounds whatsoever from
inside). It won't even turn off with the "Cancel" button (although it will
turn off when I unplug it and then plug it back in).

It was bought in 2008 and it gets used about once a week or so (a bit more
now that we have my sister and her kids living with us).

Any suggestions?

Get out and find some rocks by a stream.

Thanks for all your advice; I think it's the Motor Control Unit
(Whirlpool P/N 8540540).

If you skip to the bottom of this post, you'll see pictures of the
burned board. Do you concur based on the photos below that it's
the motor control board?

Why didn't the diagnostic test work then?

Anyway, after being totally unsuccessful at getting the Whirlpool duet
sport WFW8410SW washing machine to diagnose anything other than F28
(which is apparently the same "communications error" as the infamous F11
that youtubers all deplore), I finally just took the whole thing apart.

The en133200 F11.126/980-214 EMI Noise Filter near where the power
comes in seemed to be in good shape:
http://i.cubeupload.com/9NouUy.gif

The main computer control board (Whirlpool PN W10063510) also seemed
to be in good shape on the bottom:
http://i.cubeupload.com/3AJpZe.gif

And on the top:
http://i.cubeupload.com/vHyNQx.gif

And even looking to the sides:
http://i.cubeupload.com/s47l8r.gif
http://i.cubeupload.com/HXFRaC.gif

But, the motor control board had "something" wrong with it based
on what the plastic looked like:
http://i.cubeupload.com/0hFNfc.gif

I don't know what actually burned yet:
http://i.cubeupload.com/NzBAH1.gif

As the two capacitors seem to be intact:
http://i.cubeupload.com/DLgrxP.gif

Here's one of the capacitors at a side view:
http://i.cubeupload.com/LHKttV.gif

And here's the other capacitor:
http://i.cubeupload.com/eySoyP.gif

This shows a burned trace on the MMU:
http://i.cubeupload.com/zTTwBd.gif

And this shows a closeup of that:
http://i.cubeupload.com/pg2KkN.gif

As does this show burnt components or traces:
http://i.cubeupload.com/hXFq4P.gif

I don't think I can figure out, on my own, whether
it's repairable (I suspect it's not - do you?).

So, at this point, if you have good pointers for where to buy a
new Whirlpool motor control board (PN 8540540), I'd appreciate
more advice now that it's pretty sure that it's the MCU and not
the CCU.

On Sun, 01 May 2016 23:40:24 +0000, Danny DiAmico wrote:

Thanks for all your advice; I think it's the Motor Control Unit
(Whirlpool P/N 8540540).

The part number seems to be either 8540540 or AKO 706497-05
based on this sticker on the Whirlpool WFW8410SW motor control
board.
http://i.cubeupload.com/H3k19q.gif

I wonder what caused the board to blow up? Notice this capacitor
has a hole blown in it, for example:
http://i.cubeupload.com/UQQp1S.gif

Do you think if I put in a new board, that it will also blow?

On Mon, 2 May 2016 00:17:53 -0000 (UTC), Danny DiAmico
wrote:

Do you think if I put in a new board, that it will also blow?

Danny, your pics are to large. Thin the megs down. Your's choke my
bandwidth. Not normally a concern for me.

On Sunday, May 1, 2016 at 7:17:57 PM UTC-5, Danny DiAmico wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2016 23:40:24 +0000, Danny DiAmico wrote:

Thanks for all your advice; I think it's the Motor Control Unit
(Whirlpool P/N 8540540).

The part number seems to be either 8540540 or AKO 706497-05
based on this sticker on the Whirlpool WFW8410SW motor control
board.
http://i.cubeupload.com/H3k19q.gif

I wonder what caused the board to blow up? Notice this capacitor
has a hole blown in it, for example:
http://i.cubeupload.com/UQQp1S.gif

Do you think if I put in a new board, that it will also blow?

You'd be better off with a new board. What you think is a disk capacitor could be an MOV surge arrester. When those get blown to hell and traces burned off the circuit board, all other components are suspect. These newfangled electronically controlled appliances are a lot more vulnerable to power surges than the old school electromechanical appliances. I haven't checked recently but I once could buy rebuilt electromechanical timers for appliances.. I hate wasting things but it's often cheaper to replace a control board. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Cheap Monster

On Sun, 01 May 2016 19:04:35 -0700, Oren wrote:

Danny, your pics are to large. Thin the megs down. Your's choke my
bandwidth. Not normally a concern for me.

I'm sorry.
From my experience with you guys, you *see things* I don't see when
I show you pictures (remember the garage door frame rebuild?).

So, I wanted you to have the *biggest* pictures I could supply, so
that you guys could zoom in.

As a courtesy to you all, who help me immensely, here are the shrunk
pictures, in the order of most important to least important.

This is the motor control board (PN 8540540, also PN W10163007) for
the Whirlpool Duet Sport WFW8410SW washing machine:
http://i.cubeupload.com/k1m0mV.jpg

Notice that traces are burnt:
http://i.cubeupload.com/k7Hwkl.jpg

And that multiple surface-mount components have exploded:
http://i.cubeupload.com/YGQ9cM.jpg

There is even a "bullet hole" in one of the flat devices, which,
might not be a capacitor because it's labelled "R16" whereas the
other capacitors have a "C" designation as per typical convention:
http://i.cubeupload.com/RfF0Bv.jpg

I'm not sure if one of the huge electrolytic capacitors has blown
or not, because the top isn't flat, but I don't know if it was
flat to begin with:
http://i.cubeupload.com/vdL6Ut.jpg

The other huge electrolytic capacitor seems OK though:
http://i.cubeupload.com/tb3cu4.jpg

The part number is clearly shown on this sticker (and a call to
the official Whirlpool parts center (866-698-2538) confirms that
the part number W10163007 and 8540540. (It's important to note
that the part number is not W10205342, which is sometimes listed
in the parts diagrams - that must be for a newer model?)
http://i.cubeupload.com/ErHVuc.jpg

I'll repost the shrunk pictures of the CPU board and the EMI
filter separately, but they seem pristine so I don't think the
problem is there (unless they caused the problem in the first
place).

Let me know if these pictures need to be shrunk further as I do
try to document everything not only so that you guys can help
me, but also so that others benefit from each action we take.

PS: Where is Jeff Liebermann when you need him!

On Sun, 01 May 2016 21:33:07 -0700, Uncle Monster wrote:

You'd be better off with a new board.
What you think is a disk capacitor could be an MOV surge arrester.
When those get blown to hell and traces burned off the circuit board,
all other components are suspect.
These newfangled electronically controlled appliances are a lot more
vulnerable to power surges than the old school electromechanical
appliances. I haven't checked recently but I once could buy
rebuilt electromechanical timers for appliances.
I hate wasting things but it's often cheaper to replace a control board.

We did have rains here in California, as Jeff Liebermann would know, where
the wind blew out the power in the mountains three time in one week.

So this was the *first* time the washer was started after the power
went out multiple times!

And you are correct that the part I thought was a capacitor is not
labelled with a C (as the rest of the caps are), but it's labelled
R16, so, it's not a cap.
http://i.cubeupload.com/RfF0Bv.jpg

The rest of the capacitors on the motor control board seem to be ok:
http://i.cubeupload.com/TWiBYR.jpg

But certainly some of the surface-mount components have fried:
http://i.cubeupload.com/xRnjw9.jpg

The good news is that the EMI suppression filter seems to be intact:
http://i.cubeupload.com/ONiqvC.jpg

And the main computer control board (CCU) seems to be in good shape:
http://i.cubeupload.com/qABhEj.jpg

Nothing seems burnt on the CCU:
http://i.cubeupload.com/zBAmq5.jpg

So, now my goal is to see where the best place to get a used or rebuilt
or new Motor Control Board (MCU) P/N W10163007 or PN 8540540 from:
http://i.cubeupload.com/ErHVuc.jpg

On Monday, May 2, 2016 at 10:52:38 AM UTC-5, Danny DiAmico wrote:
On Sun, 01 May 2016 21:33:07 -0700, Uncle Monster wrote:

You'd be better off with a new board.
What you think is a disk capacitor could be an MOV surge arrester.
When those get blown to hell and traces burned off the circuit board,
all other components are suspect.
These newfangled electronically controlled appliances are a lot more
vulnerable to power surges than the old school electromechanical
appliances. I haven't checked recently but I once could buy
rebuilt electromechanical timers for appliances.
I hate wasting things but it's often cheaper to replace a control board..

We did have rains here in California, as Jeff Liebermann would know, where
the wind blew out the power in the mountains three time in one week.

So this was the *first* time the washer was started after the power
went out multiple times!

And you are correct that the part I thought was a capacitor is not
labelled with a C (as the rest of the caps are), but it's labelled
R16, so, it's not a cap.
http://i.cubeupload.com/RfF0Bv.jpg

The rest of the capacitors on the motor control board seem to be ok:
http://i.cubeupload.com/TWiBYR.jpg

But certainly some of the surface-mount components have fried:
http://i.cubeupload.com/xRnjw9.jpg

The good news is that the EMI suppression filter seems to be intact:
http://i.cubeupload.com/ONiqvC.jpg

And the main computer control board (CCU) seems to be in good shape:
http://i.cubeupload.com/qABhEj.jpg

Nothing seems burnt on the CCU:
http://i.cubeupload.com/zBAmq5.jpg

So, now my goal is to see where the best place to get a used or rebuilt
or new Motor Control Board (MCU) P/N W10163007 or PN 8540540 from:
http://i.cubeupload.com/ErHVuc.jpg

Well Dan I hope you can get it repaired but the problem with a lot electronic controls is that when they're hit with a power surge that blows the hell out of the protectors and blasts runs off a circuit board, all the other parts are often damaged. MOV's will actually wear out after so many power surges. On phone lines, me and the guys always installed extra protection and the protectors would sacrifice themselves to protect the equipment. The protectors are easily replaced by plugging in a new one. At your home, you should look into a meter base surge arrester from your power company. I think it will add a few bucks to your power bill every month but your power company will guarantee it to protect your appliances. I don't know what the power company policy is where you reside but it wouldn't hurt to ask them about a whole house surge arrester. ^_^

Meter base protection:

http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-50240-.../dp/B0019F6X3I

Whole house surge arrester:

http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page...uckduckgo-d-20

[8~{} Uncle Surge Monster

On Mon, 02 May 2016 09:32:04 -0700, Uncle Monster wrote:

Well Dan I hope you can get it repaired but the problem with a lot electronic
controls is that when they're hit with a power surge that blows the hell out
of the protectors and blasts runs off a circuit board, all the other parts
are often damaged. MOV's will actually wear out after so many power surges.
On phone lines, me and the guys always installed extra protection and the
protectors would sacrifice themselves to protect the equipment.
The protectors are easily replaced by plugging in a new one.
At your home, you should look into a meter base surge arrester from your
power company. I think it will add a few bucks to your power bill every
month but your power company will guarantee it to protect your appliances.
I don't know what the power company policy is where you reside but it
wouldn't hurt to ask them about a whole house surge arrester. ^_^

Meter base protection:
http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-50240-.../dp/B0019F6X3I

Whole house surge arrester:
http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page...uckduckgo-d-20

Thanks for the suggestion of a whole-house surge suppressor.

I do have a generator, which kicks in automatically as the power goes
out here in California at least a dozen times a year (it's like living
in a third world country).

I'm not even counting the times the power goes out for seconds, where
the generator doesn't even kick in, or only kicks in for a few seconds,
the power is that bad from PG&E.

So, the two-hundred dollar Amazon surge suppressor you listed looks
reasonable (considering it would cost more than that to put MOVs on
all the computers and electronic devices).

I wonder how it works if I buy that two-hundred dollar part:
http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-50240-.../dp/B0019F6X3I

Or, if I buy the eighty-dollar part:
http://www.amazon.com/WHOLE-LIGHTNIN...2207395&sr=8-4

Does the power company let me put it in myself?

On Thu, 28 Apr 2016 14:39:57 -0400, Tekkie® wrote:

Glad to hear the gray well water cleaned up.
Was the real problem ever determined?

We can never be sure, but what we did was hike downhill from the
spot the 500 foot well was dug. We hiked about 500 feet below
that house and then we dug into the hillside (it's public open
space, so, we just dug without permission with our hands).

Since the hill is steep, there was only about six inches of
top soil, which we kicked away with our boots, and we noticed
that there was a wide expance of gray "mud" at that level.

When we stopped for a moment to survey the area, we belatedly
noticed a "band" of no vegetation at about the same level,
crossing the mountainside along the isocline.

Given that we kicked away the topsoil in a half dozen spots,
where this band seems very localized (about 100 feet long and
only about 6 feet to 15 feet in height), our *assumption* is
that there is a band of mud that was mixed up with the
Franciscan sediments 30 million (or so) years ago when
the Pacific plate rammed into the edge of California.

So, what we *think* happened is that the well drillers simply
hit that "puddle" of gray mud at about 500 feet and that it took
months to pump all that mud out from the pocket that the drillers
were obtaining the water from.

The funny thing is that just those two houses experienced that
gray mud, which even the well drillers said was odd in our area,
so, take everything we say with a grain of salt, but do realize
there are a lot of engineers on this hell who have pondered this
situation, so, that's the best we could have come up with.

BTW, the 100-foot long 15-feet wide bridge and treehouse was put
on hold because the storms blew it down. But we rebuilt it, and
we're starting to build the 16-foot-by-16-foot treehouse itself,
but this time, we anchored 1/2 inch steel cables to hold the
treehouse *above* the 100-foot long bridge (Jeff Liebermann is
always welcome to visit and I'll show it to him since he lives
near by).

If you want, I'll snap some pictures of the new setup, but, it
will look really nice since it's 80 feet above the ground when
it's all done. Right now, we have the 100-foot suspension bridge
done, and we're starting on the treehouse itself, which is going
to be floating above the suspension bridge about 75 feet from
the hillside and about 25 feet from the anchor redwood and about
80 or so feet above the ground.