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Default They finally found proof texting bans - does it make adifference

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 15:21:52 -0500, nospam wrote:

it boils down to the majority of drivers being bad drivers.


Shouldn't it boil down to a gaussian distribution?

That is, shouldn't the majority of drivers be merely average drivers.

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Default They finally found proof texting bans - does it make adifference

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 15:21:52 -0500, nospam wrote:

it's a near *hit*, not a near miss. a near miss means you actually hit.
a complete miss means no collision occurred.


That's interesting.
See? You have an attention to detail the others can't comprehend.

I study WWII history and have always heard of "near misses" causing
damager to, say, a ship's rudder.

I silently had trouble with that, because that's a hit, not a miss.
But they call them near misses anyway.

I didn't think about it all that much, other than to simply assume
a near miss was actually a minor hit, so I will post to alt.usage.english
to figure this one out (in gory detail) since I love detailed answers.

Most people can't handle details.
You can.


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Default They finally found proof texting bans - does it make a difference

On 1/20/2016 5:12 PM, nospam wrote:
In article , Ed
Pawlowski wrote:

That nobody on this planet can *find* those accidents tells us something.

What does it tell you Rod?


It tells me you are not looking. I personally know of two, one was my
10 year old granddaughter rear ending another car.


a 10 year old was driving???


SHOULD BE 19

The other was a week
before Christmas on the street behind my house. Young lady was killed
when she went head on into a big pickup.


the pickup driver has some responsibility.


Really? Two lanes, no shoulder, no place to go. Were you a witness?
What should he have done?


I've also seen people on cell
phones and not driving properly.


plenty of people who don't text on cellphones don't drive properly
either.


True, but the ones on phones make more mistakes.

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Default They finally found proof texting bans - does it make adifference

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 10:45:23 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

Driving is non-challenging activity? Really?


The proof is simply that *everyone* can do it.

Even a 15-year old kid can do it; it's that easy.

High school Algebra/Trig is more challenging than driving.

Hell, understanding logic is more challenging than driving
(as witnessed by the bro-science logic that holds sway here).

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Default They finally found proof texting bans - does it make adifference

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 18:46:11 +0000, Chris wrote:

I would posit that most non-phone using drivers are aware enough
to help avoid an accident eg by serving or slowing down. Given
that, it still doesn't mean using a phone while driving is
safe.


Nobody ever said that cellphone use wasn't distracting.
Nobody ever said that distractions are safe.

What we said, and it seems that only nospam and Peter Cresswell
seem to understand, is that if cellphone use was as distractingly
unsafe as most of the rest here seem to *assume* it is, then
the accident rate would have skyrocketed long ago.

That their argument *requires* accidents in order for the argument
to be valid underscores the fact that they're thinking only
emotionally, since even they can't find these arguments that
their argument entirely depends upon.



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Default They finally found proof texting bans - does it make adifference

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 18:11:01 +0000, Jolly Roger wrote:

Yes, and cell phone use is a distraction.


Nobody ever said it wasn't.

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Default They finally found proof texting bans - does it make adifference

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 19:00:40 +0000, Frank Slootweg wrote:

And *texting* - *which is the subject of this thread* - (and similar
use) is a distraction which is *incomparable* to *any* other
distraction, because the length in time of the distraction is *much*
longer.


Nobody ever said texting wasn't distracting.
Just like nobody ever said crying babies (and a million other things)
wasn't distracting.

And, nobody ever said distractions can contribute to accidents.

Yet ... you take those true statements and contort them to fit
a reality that only exists in your confused mind.

Think logically for once!

I could leave meat outside, and it would attract a few flies, but
I could leave rotten meat outside, and it would attract MORE flies!

Neither one of those means that spontaneous generation occurred.

You can see cellphones as distracting when people talk on them, but
you can see them as even more distracting (rotten) when people text.

Neither one means that cellphone use is causing more accidents!

You see that as proof of spontaneous generation ... ummm... I mean,
you see that as proof that cellphone use while driving is causing
accidents.

Yet, even you can't find those accidents.
Yet, your entire argument *hinges* on those accidents being there.

Worse ... that (huuuuuuuuuge!) logic discrepancy causes you no concern?

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Default They finally found proof texting bans - does it make a difference

In article
,
Muggles wrote:

On 1/20/2016 1:32 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:

Locally there was an incident a teenage boy was playing with smart phone
in bed and fell asleep in the night, some how the phone started burning
under blanket causing injury to the boy. Anyone who says using handhelp
device while driving is safe is an idiot. Sooner or later distracted
driving will kill self or some one or if lucky will come out alive from
accident caused by distraction. I encourage and give my kids cars with
manual shift which requires more attention. I always drive using paddle
shift on my vehicle. Is there such thing as forever lucky? Monkeys do
fall from trees.... Some parts of Canada fine for distracted driving is
700.00 and they still do. It's an addiction. My route to downtown from
home is via freeway or ring road. I see guys/gals reading, doing make
ups, drinking coffee/eating, yakking/texting on cell phone, etc. They
are menace on the road.


I've seen similar things going on when people were driving. It's crazy
when they're going 70mph on the interstate and trying to put on mascara!
I don't get why people need to use a cell phone by hand, either, when a
hands free device and wi-fi technology allows people to still function
and keep both hands on the steering wheel.

I don't think people are going to stop using cell phones while driving,
either, so at least they could be required to use the safest options out
there. There are constant distractions aside from cell phone use, so
we're already used to being distracted. Having a conversation with a
passenger, or even listening to a radio is equally distracting as using
a cell phone to carry on a conversation.


Having a cellphone conversation has already been proven to be more
distracting / dangerous than having a conversation with a passenger.
This is partly because a passenger in the car can see what's happening
and so knows when to shut up, when to help out (e.g. looking one way
while the driver is looking the other when leaving a side road), etc.




IF we're going to debate about how cell phone use is dangerously
distracting, why aren't we making a fuss about the technology being put
in new cars where our phones can be synced with the radios so people can
use hands free voice calls more safely? Isn't that distracting, too, but
evidently not enough to warrant banning it's implementation into new
vehicles.

People are going to do stupid things when they drive, and get distracted
by something eventually. I don't know if the solutions is to totally
ban the usage of any phone while driving regardless of the technology,
or adapt to the technology as it makes cars safer to drive.


The ridiculous thing is that car manufacturers themselves are
moronically trying to add even more distractions. They are introducing
more and more gadgets and "smart" / wi-fi functions to cars. Some
imbecile at the recent CES expo was going on about how the driver would
be able to use their car's wi-fi abilities to turn on the heating at
home before they get there, etc. :-(
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Default They finally found proof texting bans - does it make adifference

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 18:06:02 +0000, Jolly Roger wrote:

False. You can't prove that either way since accident rate is influenced by
a myriad of factors many of which have absolutely nothing to do with cell
phone use.


Your argument *requires* and depends upon a greater number of accidents
occurring, yet, you find no compulsion to even *look* for those accidents
that your argument predicts.

You say alien beings conspired to hide those accidents ... ummm ... I mean
you say a series of perfectly lined up stars *hid* the data that your argument
so critically *depends* upon to be valid.

It *could* happen.
But you have less proof of your argument than I do of mine.
Far (far) less.

That's not illogical to you?
That causes you no concern as an intelligent human being?

If not, then you really can't be reasoned with.

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Default They finally found proof texting bans - does it make adifference

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 16:53:17 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

It tells me you are not looking. I personally know of two, one was my
10 year old granddaughter rear ending another car. The other was a week
before Christmas on the street behind my house. Young lady was killed
when she went head on into a big pickup. I've also seen people on cell
phones and not driving properly.

If I know of two in my little world I'm sure there are many others.


The school system failed you.
You're clearly *not* a scientist nor educated in the scientific method.

Just like you, I know of two instances where flies were created by
spontaneous generation.

One, was when I left a piece of rotting meat outside, and, a week
later, it was covered in maggots. Surely that means I suspect
spontaneous generation, does it not?

Second anecdotal "proof" was when I pooped outside on my deck.
Wouldn't you know it, but within HOURS, maggots were all over it.

Since I saw this with my very own eyes, spontaneous generation must
be true. I saw it with my own eyes, and I *believe* my own eyes.

I have not one, but *two* examples of spontaneous generation that
I saw with my very own eyes (who needs stinkin' science when I have
my own eyes that I trust more than all the science in the world!).

Just like it says in this article on that exact subject!

How Anecdotal Evidence Can Undermine Scientific Results
Or...Why subjective anecdotes often trump objective data
http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...tific-results/



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Default They finally found proof texting bans - does it make adifference

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 10:39:20 -0700, Tony Hwang wrote:

Most of texting is gossips, garbage chit chats,
non-productive junks.


How do you know that?
Or, are you just guessing?

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On 1/20/2016 5:40 PM, SeaNymph wrote:


The ability to render a cell phone useless while in a car already
exists. Why they don't use it is beyond me.


Attitude.
Bad things only happen to the other guy, not me.
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In article
dhosting.com, Paul
M. Cook wrote:


it boils down to the majority of drivers being bad drivers.


Shouldn't it boil down to a gaussian distribution?

That is, shouldn't the majority of drivers be merely average drivers.


the point is that people screw up and crash.

very few drivers are skilled enough to handle unexpected events such as
a skid, tire blowout, brake failure, etc. without crashing.

getting a driver's license is little more than answering a bunch of
questions and driving around the block. it's no wonder most drivers
suck.
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In article
dhosting.com, Paul
M. Cook wrote:


it's a near *hit*, not a near miss. a near miss means you actually hit.
a complete miss means no collision occurred.


That's interesting.
See? You have an attention to detail the others can't comprehend.


I study WWII history and have always heard of "near misses" causing
damager to, say, a ship's rudder.

I silently had trouble with that, because that's a hit, not a miss.
But they call them near misses anyway.

I didn't think about it all that much, other than to simply assume
a near miss was actually a minor hit, so I will post to alt.usage.english
to figure this one out (in gory detail) since I love detailed answers.


it's a pet peeve of mine, even though it's obvious what was meant.
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Default They finally found proof texting bans - does it make a difference

In article
dhosting.com, Paul
M. Cook wrote:


Driving is non-challenging activity? Really?


The proof is simply that *everyone* can do it.


no they can't.

kids can't because they're too short to reach the pedals or see over
the dashboard. old people can't because their reactions are too slow.
new drivers (typically teens/twenty-somethings) lack the experience.
blind people obviously can't, nor can people with limited motor skills.

Even a 15-year old kid can do it; it's that easy.


not safely, particularly in situations where something goes wrong.

High school Algebra/Trig is more challenging than driving.

Hell, understanding logic is more challenging than driving
(as witnessed by the bro-science logic that holds sway here).


two totally different things.


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Default They finally found proof texting bans - does it make a difference

In article , Ed
Pawlowski wrote:

That nobody on this planet can *find* those accidents tells us something.

What does it tell you Rod?

It tells me you are not looking. I personally know of two, one was my
10 year old granddaughter rear ending another car.


a 10 year old was driving???


SHOULD BE 19


inexperienced driver.

The other was a week
before Christmas on the street behind my house. Young lady was killed
when she went head on into a big pickup.


the pickup driver has some responsibility.


Really? Two lanes, no shoulder, no place to go. Were you a witness?
What should he have done?


were you?

were either drivers driving too fast for conditions? were there other
factors involved? was the driver of the truck not paying attention? did
the truck cross the centerline?

drivers who don't pay attention while driving will find ways to not pay
attention *without* phones.

I've also seen people on cell
phones and not driving properly.


plenty of people who don't text on cellphones don't drive properly
either.


True, but the ones on phones make more mistakes.


no they don't.

a phone is just one way to be distracted.

other ways include eating, popping in a cd/tape, putting on makeup,
reading a newspaper or map, turning to yell at a screaming child and
many other things.

why single out only cellphones??

****ty drivers will always be ****ty drivers until they learn how to be
better drivers.
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Default They finally found proof texting bans - does it make a difference

In article , SeaNymph
wrote:


The ability to render a cell phone useless while in a car already
exists. Why they don't use it is beyond me.


because passengers would be incredibly ****ed if their phones don't
work, as would the driver in an emergency.
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On Mon, 18 Jan 2016 11:44:05 -0800, Jack Black
wrote:

Finally, after years of looking, they found proof that texting causes
accidents!

Here is the quote!

Overall, the hospitalization rate in those states declined by 7 percent
versus states with no bans, the researchers report in the American Journal
of Public Health.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/texting-...-a-difference/


how do they know texting laws, which I assume are almost completely
ignored anyway, are the cause of the decline in hospitalizations?
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On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 16:56:48 -0000, SeaNymph wrote:

On 1/20/2016 10:22 AM, Muggles wrote:
On 1/20/2016 4:12 AM, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
Paul M. Cook wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 19:59:18 +1300, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:

I have to wonder at people who think not looking at the road and
thinking about something else as well, isn't dangerous.

Driving isn't an inherently safe thing to do, so, sure, of course
there are myriad distractions inherent in the mere act of driving.

The fact that almost anyone can drive means that driving is,
essentially, in the scope of the easiest tasks humans can do.

So, it's *easy* to drive and *not safe* to be distracted.

Since most of us never have a single accident in our entire lives,
and yet, most of us have been distracted a billion times while
driving, what that means is that we constantly safely handle
distractions.

That *some* people can't handle distractions is probably partially
why the accident rate remains at the low level that it is today.

However, the fact that this accident rate was wholly unaffected
by the absolutely astoundingly huge increase in cellphone ownership
numbers (hence, most people assume, in cellphone use distractions),
simply means exactly what it shows.

That is, cellphone use is not any more distracting than any other
distraction that most drivers handle safely every single day.


It is simplicity itself to demonstrate that TXTing while driving impairs
reaction times, as many have shown, for many years now e.g.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/texting-while-driving-how-dangerous-is-it

But continue to deny that you are affected by distractions, and that
magically you are a better driver and better able to multitask than
others.
Of course an accident resulting from distractions such as TXTing would
never happen to _you_! That is only something that happens to '_other_
people'. _You're_ special :-)

I guess some people never quite manage to mature past the teenage
feeling of invulnerability, to instead deal with reality and take
responsibility...


I'm reading this thread from the repair group, so I don't recognize the
names of the people in this discussion. I do have a question about your
last comment, here.

Do you think that since teens and those who grew up using cell phones
are more adept at using the technology and would, therefore, also be
more inclined to use it while driving without it being a bigger
distraction to them than say listening to a radio?


I don't think so. The distraction is in your brain, not in how fast you
can text. While listening to the radio can be distracting, you don't
have to look at it to do it. If they aren't watching the road, that's
just an accident waiting to happen.


You might not see some other clueless twerp doing something wrong, but it doesn't stop you driving correctly yourself. You look ahead and see you don't have to do anything for 5 seconds, so you can look at your phone for a bit.

--
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On 1/20/2016 7:24 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:

I study WWII history and have always heard of "near misses" causing
damager to, say, a ship's rudder.

I silently had trouble with that, because that's a hit, not a miss.
But they call them near misses anyway.

I didn't think about it all that much, other than to simply assume
a near miss was actually a minor hit, so I will post to alt.usage.english
to figure this one out (in gory detail) since I love detailed answers.


Explosives to not have to actually hit the target to do damage. The
shockwaves do it.



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Default They finally found proof texting bans - does it make a difference

On 1/20/16, 13:58, SeaNymph wrote:
On 1/20/2016 12:38 PM, Muggles wrote:
On 1/20/2016 11:39 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Muggles wrote:
On 1/20/2016 4:12 AM, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:


...


I don't believe it's normal to be so attached to a device.



It's the new normal.


--
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=== ==+=====+=====+====++
||Arnold VICTOR, New York City, i. e., ||
||Arnoldo VIKTORO, Nov-jorkurbo, t. e., ||
||Remove capital letters from e-mail address for correct address/ ||
|| Forigu majusklajn literojn el e-poŝta adreso por ĝusta adreso ||
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=== ==+=====+=====+====++
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Default They finally found proof texting bans - does it make a difference

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 17:39:20 -0000, Tony Hwang wrote:

Muggles wrote:
On 1/20/2016 4:12 AM, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:
Paul M. Cook wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 19:59:18 +1300, Jamie Kahn Genet wrote:

I have to wonder at people who think not looking at the road and
thinking about something else as well, isn't dangerous.

Driving isn't an inherently safe thing to do, so, sure, of course
there are myriad distractions inherent in the mere act of driving.

The fact that almost anyone can drive means that driving is,
essentially, in the scope of the easiest tasks humans can do.

So, it's *easy* to drive and *not safe* to be distracted.

Since most of us never have a single accident in our entire lives,
and yet, most of us have been distracted a billion times while
driving, what that means is that we constantly safely handle
distractions.

That *some* people can't handle distractions is probably partially
why the accident rate remains at the low level that it is today.

However, the fact that this accident rate was wholly unaffected
by the absolutely astoundingly huge increase in cellphone ownership
numbers (hence, most people assume, in cellphone use distractions),
simply means exactly what it shows.

That is, cellphone use is not any more distracting than any other
distraction that most drivers handle safely every single day.


It is simplicity itself to demonstrate that TXTing while driving impairs
reaction times, as many have shown, for many years now e.g.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/texting-while-driving-how-dangerous-is-it

But continue to deny that you are affected by distractions, and that
magically you are a better driver and better able to multitask than
others.
Of course an accident resulting from distractions such as TXTing would
never happen to _you_! That is only something that happens to '_other_
people'. _You're_ special :-)

I guess some people never quite manage to mature past the teenage
feeling of invulnerability, to instead deal with reality and take
responsibility...


I'm reading this thread from the repair group, so I don't recognize the
names of the people in this discussion. I do have a question about your
last comment, here.

Do you think that since teens and those who grew up using cell phones
are more adept at using the technology and would, therefore, also be
more inclined to use it while driving without it being a bigger
distraction to them than say listening to a radio?

Driving is total attention business needing all 5 senses. Our store is
next door to Starbuck coffee shop. Seeing thru the windows in the shop,
all people sitting there is texting burying their face into the
smart phones. After finishing coffee, comes out into their parked cars,
again texting with car's engine running. What in the world do they have
so much to text? Nowadays it is rare sight people doing eyeball
conversations. Most of texting is gossips, garbage chit chats,
non-productive junks. It is as bad as drug addictions.


It's just communication. Do you object to people talking to each other face to face? How about phoning each other? What's the difference? It's all communication. What about people like you who chat on newsgroups?

--
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To stop the drip, turn cock to right.
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Default They finally found proof texting bans - does it make a difference

On 1/20/2016 7:53 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 16:53:17 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

It tells me you are not looking. I personally know of two, one was my
19 year old granddaughter rear ending another car. The other was a week
before Christmas on the street behind my house. Young lady was killed
when she went head on into a big pickup. I've also seen people on cell
phones and not driving properly.

If I know of two in my little world I'm sure there are many others.


The school system failed you.
You're clearly *not* a scientist nor educated in the scientific method.

Just like you, I know of two instances where flies were created by
spontaneous generation.


You said there were NONE. I have proof of two. I know nothing of your
flies. Has nothing to do with science, it is just a fact of something
that happened.

If you said "not many" or "very few" I'd not dispute it, but you said
"none" and that is wrong.

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Default They finally found proof texting bans - does it make a difference

On 1/20/2016 3:05 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2016-01-20, Muggles wrote:

I've been told that some new cars have hand controls on the steering
wheel that allow the stereo system to answer phone calls AND text calls
and convert the text to voice msgs and any voice responses to text. I
don't understand why the technology is being put in new cars if the
trend is to stop people from using the technology while driving.


Simple: Hands free technology *reduces* distraction. Eliminating it
altogether would be nice, but is impractical in reality. It's a step in
the right direction. Autonomous cars cannot get here fast enough for me.


I'm not so sure autonomous cars are such a great thing. I'd hate to be
on the interstate and get hacked just as a semi hauling cars whizzes
past me.

Sneezing while driving is just as bad as any other distraction, I think,


I have to disagree with that conclusion since it happens fairly quickly
and doesn't require as much cognitive distraction as other things.


I dunno, I've had some doozy's when it came to sneezing when I've been
driving. Try as I did I couldn't keep my eyes open, and it never
happens when it's a good time to happen, either.

Having sex while driving would be *much* worse, for instance. ; ) I can


{{{nope ... not gona say nuthing ...... covers mouth ... stomps on
fingers!}}}

tell you from direct observation that even something seemingly
innocuous as someone discussing complex details of a software defect and
remedy while driving is extremely distracting and dangerous. I was
once on a conference call where a coworker almost hit a school bus while
trying to describe an integration issue to the rest of the team. People
do all sorts of asinine distracting and potentially dangerous things
while driving. Sneezing doesn't seem like it should be very high on that
list to me.



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On 1/20/2016 4:12 PM, nospam wrote:
In article
,
Muggles wrote:

People are going to do stupid things when they drive, and get distracted
by something eventually. I don't know if the solutions is to totally
ban the usage of any phone while driving regardless of the technology,
or adapt to the technology as it makes cars safer to drive.



the solution are autonomous vehicles, at which point people can do
whatever the hell they want while the car does the driving, and far
safer than any human can do.


While autonomous vehicles may be practical in the future, it'll be quite
a few years before that technology is advanced enough for practical
implementation. Maybe it'll be something we can actually practically
use within the next 20 or 30 years.



it's *already* starting to appear in limited forms and within 5-10
years, autonomous vehicles will be more than a curiosity.


I'm guessing longer than that before they are anything but in the
testing phase, but who knows.... It could happen sooner.


highway driving is likely to be first, which is comparatively much
easier than city traffic. the person can then take over at the
destination exit and finish the trip.


Dumb blond says to cop: "BUT officer! it's an autonomous car - it drives
itself! Why did it crash when I got off the highway??"


Until that happens, though, the best technology that's out there is only
installed on new vehicles, and not everyone can actually buy those cars.
I don't have any research numbers, but I'd guess a very small
percentage of people can actually afford to even buy vehicles with the
current smart technology.



it'll be standard, just like abs brakes, airbags, etc. are now.


I wonder if it'll be affordable?


I'd also want to know how those people involved in developing the
technology have addressed the possibility of maliciously hacking
vehicles, and all the issues involved when software is in charge of
controlling a 2000 pound rolling weapon?



nothing is perfect. what matters is that the collision, injury and
fatality rate is lower than it is now, which isn't all that hard to do.


If the purpose of an autonomous car isn't to eliminate collisions and
injuries, is it going to be worth the expense just to change the stats a
little?


with drunk driving, driving too fast for conditions, unsafe vehicles
(bald tires, worn out brakes, etc.), distracted driving and human error
completely eliminated, even with an occasional hacker, you're still
*way* ahead.



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In article , Ed
Pawlowski wrote:
On 1/20/2016 5:40 PM, SeaNymph wrote:

The ability to render a cell phone useless while in a car already
exists. Why they don't use it is beyond me.


Attitude.
Bad things only happen to the other guy, not me.


The reason car manufacturers don't install blocking technology in cars
is because the loud mouthed selfish idiots would complain too much ...
the same reason America *still* lets every looney have a gun.
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In article , Ed
Pawlowski wrote:

On 1/20/2016 7:53 PM, Paul M. Cook wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 16:53:17 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

It tells me you are not looking. I personally know of two, one was my
19 year old granddaughter rear ending another car. The other was a week
before Christmas on the street behind my house. Young lady was killed
when she went head on into a big pickup. I've also seen people on cell
phones and not driving properly.

If I know of two in my little world I'm sure there are many others.


The school system failed you.
You're clearly *not* a scientist nor educated in the scientific method.

Just like you, I know of two instances where flies were created by
spontaneous generation.


You said there were NONE. I have proof of two. I know nothing of your
flies. Has nothing to do with science, it is just a fact of something
that happened.

If you said "not many" or "very few" I'd not dispute it, but you said
"none" and that is wrong.


There's thousands, if not millions, of such examples on police accident
records around the world. Some accidents are indeed definitely caused
by the driver using their cellphone (not handsfree).
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Paul M. Cook wrote
Rod Speed wrote


And it is now the single biggest cause of death
for those between the ages of 15 and 70.


As it was before cellphones existed.


Irrelevant to your bare faced lies.
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On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 12:28:07 +1100, Rod Speed wrote:

Irrelevant to your bare faced lies.


Hmm.... Eloquent.

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Paul M. Cook wrote
Rod Speed wrote


Anyone with even half a clue knows that
texting while driving is a BIG distraction.


Rod, I know you can read.


We have all noticed that you can't bull****, lie without
it being obvious to everyone that you are lying, or even
work out even the simplest 'logic' either.

So, let's try this again,


No thanks, your **** and lies stays your ****
and lies no matter how often its spewed.

since, you must be also intelligent.


If you can't *understand* what I'm writing,


Every can understand that you are lying thru your
teeth, just like you always do when you have got
done like a ****ing dinner, as you always are.

it's either you're not intelligent enough to
understand, or you don't want to understand.


Or you lies stand out like dogs balls for all it see...

I'm not saying anything that isn't obvious.


Another bare faced lie.

Let's repeat (but you really need to be able to read).


Your lies stay lies no matter how often they are read.

1. All of us (including me) would assume that distractions are dangerous.


Dont need any assumption, that is a fact.

2. All of us (including me) would assume that cellphones are distracting.


Dont need any assumption, that is a fact.

3. All of us (including me) would assume that they're a BIG distraction!


Dont need any assumption, that is a fact.

4. All of us (including me) would assume that will result in accidents!


Dont need any assumption, that is a fact.

That none of us (including you and that study) can find these accidents


You can keep repeating that bare faced lie till you are blue in the
face if you like, that changes nothing, it stays a bare faced lie.

should be cause for all of us to doublecheck our assumptions.


Not when its a bare faced lie and there is no assumption either.

That most of us (including you but not including me)
simply *assume* unproven external forces


Dont need any assumption, we know that it is a
fact that the design of cars and roads has seen a
continuing reduction in the accident rate most years.

(aliens should be added to that list)


Only by pathetic excuses for bull**** artists like yourself.

are "manipulating" or "changing" the data


Having fun thrashing that straw man ?

is patently ridiculous, but, if you (or anyone) can
*show* that manipulation of the data, I'm all ears.


Having fun thrashing that straw man ?

What you constantly refuse to do is read and understand the facts


You wouldnt know what a fact was if it bit you on your lard arse.

when they don't completely fit your assumptions.


There are no assumptions, you silly little pathological liar.

Most people are like that.


Most dont lie thru their teeth in every single post they
make, just silly little pathological liars like yourself.

The facts are all that matter.


You wouldnt know what a fact was if it bit you on your lard arse.

1. The study couldn't find the increased accidents


Because that was swamped by the decrease due to
other factors like the better design of cars and roads.

(no study can because the accidents don't exist).


You can keep repeating that bare faced lie till you are blue in the
face if you like, that changes nothing, it stays a bare faced lie.

2. The study did NOT resort to what you resorted to though, to explain
that (you may as well tell me aliens are manipulating the data).


No one said anything about manipulating data, you silly little pathological
liar.

3. The study did find increased HOSPITALIZATIONS, which
is interesting as that has to be a second-order effect.


It shows the MORE SERIOUS ACCIDENTS, ****wit.

So, what I find interesting is that, while the study could not find
increased accidents, they found increased hospitalizations.


Because those are the more serious accidents, ****wit.

Your conjecture


There is no conjecture, you silly little pathological liar.

is apropos, given *those* facts, which is something like:
A. The cellphone distraction may not be causing any increased accidents,


No one ever said anything like that, you silly little pathological liar.

B. But the accidents that were already happening "may" be more severe.


No one ever said anything like that, you silly little pathological liar.

That's a reasonable take on the data.


Pigs arse it is you silly little pathological liar.



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Paul M. Cook wrote
Rod Speed wrote


Occam's Razor says nothing of the sort.


What does Occam's Razor mean, to you?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor


Yup. What most of you try to do, because
you are extremely uncomfortable with facts


You wouldnt know what a fact was if it bit you
on your lard arse, you silly little pathological liar.

that don't fit your preconceived notion of what you feel should be,


More of your bare faced lies, you silly little pathological liar.

is that you all *invent* reasons (all unproven)


More of your bare faced lies, you silly little pathological liar.

for the facts being as they are.


You may as well invent aliens who are manipulating the data.


Having fun thrashing that straw man, you silly little pathological liar ?

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Paul M. Cook wrote
Rod Speed wrote


5. Hence, there *should* be more accidents.


And there are with the fools stupid enough to use their phones while
driving.


Where are the accidents?


Swamped by the reduction in the accidents due to the better
design of cars and roads, you silly little pathological liar.

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On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 19:28:52 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

True, but the ones on phones make more mistakes.


If there is a 10% chance that any particular new mistake will
result in an accident, then there should be a corresponding
number of additional new accidents if people are making that
new mistake.

If there is only a 0.000001% chance that any particular new
mistake will result in an accident, then there should be
corresponding number of new accidents if people are making
that new mistake.

The answer as to which is which, is clearly shown in the
reliable overall accident rate data already.

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Paul M. Cook wrote
Rod Speed wrote


Wrong, its a fact.


There is one fact that gets you all caught up in your panties.


You wouldnt know what a fact was if it bit you
on your lard arse, you silly little pathological liar.

And I dont wear panties either, whatever
degenerate behaviour you get up to yourself.

That fact is that the accident rate trajectory did not change
(either way) due the introduction of cell phones.


Because the cause of that, better design of the cars
and roads swamps that, you silly little pathological liar.


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Paul M. Cook wrote
Rod Speed wrote


By checking if the phone was being used at the time of the accident,
stupid.


While I admit that's easier to do now than ever, the
fact is that there are roughly a few hundred thousand
accidents per year in the USA and nobody is checking
each of those accidents for whether a cell phone was
in actual use during the exact time of said accident.


Just another of your bare faced lies, you silly little pathological liar.

So your answer is merely cherry picking, and hence,
useless for an overall idea of what is going on.


Just another of your bare faced lies, you silly little pathological liar.

reams of your even sillier **** and lies flushed where it belongs




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On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 20:17:55 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

You said there were NONE. I have proof of two. I know nothing of your
flies. Has nothing to do with science, it is just a fact of something
that happened.

If you said "not many" or "very few" I'd not dispute it, but you said
"none" and that is wrong.


I had to laugh, that, after you read the article showing that people
actually believe (laughably so) that "anecdotal" evidence is "proof",
you then say, presumably with a straight face that "I have proof of
two".

The school system definitely failed you.
I sure hope you don't vote.

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On Thu, 21 Jan 2016 14:27:23 +1300, Your Name wrote:

There's thousands, if not millions, of such examples on police accident
records around the world. Some accidents are indeed definitely caused
by the driver using their cellphone (not handsfree)


Nospam already explained this rather well.

Let me ask you the basic question...

How do police get *that* data?

C'mon ... think ... I know it hurts to ... but think.

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On 2016-01-21, Paul M. Cook wrote:
On Wed, 20 Jan 2016 18:06:02 +0000, Jolly Roger wrote:

False. You can't prove that either way since accident rate is influenced by
a myriad of factors many of which have absolutely nothing to do with cell
phone use.


you find no compulsion to even *look* for those accidents
that your argument predicts.


You are projecting again. It is *you* who clearly refuses to look for
accidents that are in plain sight.

If not, then you really can't be reasoned with.


Projection, again.

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"chris" wrote in message
...
On 20/01/2016 01:33, Rod Speed wrote:


"chris" wrote in message
...
On 19/01/2016 18:42, Rod Speed wrote:


"chris" wrote in message
...
On 19/01/2016 04:17, Lewis wrote:
In message
dhosting.com
Jack Black wrote:
Finally, after years of looking, they found proof that texting
causes
accidents!

You are very confused.

Overall, the hospitalization rate in those states declined by 7
percent
versus states with no bans, the researchers report in the American
Journal
of Public Health.

Global Warming prevents piracy. News at 11.

You're the one who's confused. The study mentioned is not based on
correlations, unlike the jokey (negative) correlation between Global
Warming and piracy (at sea) you're alluding to.

The study make several explicit regression models to test whether
different factors have an affect on car crash related
hospitalisations. They found that texting bans, handheld bans,
seatbelt laws and graduate licensing laws all had a measurable and
significant decrease in the hospitalisation rates.

Likewise high speed limits and illegal blood alcohol levels had
significant increases in hospitalisation rates.

Gas prices, per capita income and unemployment rates had no effect.

When gas prices didnt, the entire 'analysis' is dubious because
that must have some effect on the traffic volume on the roads.
Yes, plenty of traffic like to and from work will continue anyway,
but some traffic is optional and even with travel to and from
work, they will be more car sharing and use of public transport
with the higher gas prices.

Possibly,


Absolutely certainly, you can see that in the stats.


Which stats?


The change in traffic volumes with the price of gas.

but there was no difference between states that had a texting ban vs
those which didn't. Which is what was being measured. Any effect of
price was uniform between them.


You said gas prices had no effect.


In this study. Which was looking at the difference in hospitalisation
rates between states with or without bans on texting while driving.
Presumably fuel prices would change more or less in sync in all states


They dont actually.

and so would have no differential effect between the ban or no-ban states.



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"nospam" wrote in message
...
In article , Your Name
wrote:


The driver doesn't have to admit it, and in some cases they're dead so
couldn't even if they wanted to. It's quite easy for police to get
cellphone connection times and see the phone was in use (and what use)
at the time of the accident - it's been done in numerous cases already.


if the exact time of the crash can't be determined (and it usually can't),


It can mostly be determined accurately enough to see
whether the driver was texting at the time of the accident.

then there's no way to know if a phone was in use at the time
of the crash. it also could have been used by a passenger.


Not when there was no passenger.

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