A harder question since I don't know how much the starter motor on a
50cc scooter draws:

How long does it take a 1 amp charger to recharge what is removed from
the battery after cranking for 1 minute?


Same question but for a 2/10 amp charger when on the 2 amp setting?


When on the 10 amp setting?**

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:33:07 -0500, Micky
wrote:

A harder question since I don't know how much the starter motor on a
50cc scooter draws:

Wouldn't a clamp amp meter tell you the amp draw?

On 11/26/2015 3:21 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:33:07 -0500, Micky
wrote:

A harder question since I don't know how much the starter motor on a
50cc scooter draws:

Wouldn't a clamp amp meter tell you the amp draw?


Clamp on meters (of the kind we can afford)
only read AC. To read DC, needs to be inline.

It may be easier to find the rated reserve
capacity of the battery, and make SWAG from
there.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:06:39 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 11/26/2015 3:21 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:33:07 -0500, Micky
wrote:

A harder question since I don't know how much the starter motor on a
50cc scooter draws:

Wouldn't a clamp amp meter tell you the amp draw?


Clamp on meters (of the kind we can afford)
only read AC. To read DC, needs to be inline.

It may be easier to find the rated reserve
capacity of the battery, and make SWAG from
there.

I'm no expert. I used a clamp meter of some type on a truck starter
cable back in the last century, clamped over the positive starter
cable. IIRC it told me something about a starter, a starter that had a
"drag" and increased amps due to -- in those days were bad bushings
and the armature was binding, I forget the details. The armature in
the starter was sticking and drawing high amps.

'Course I lived in the swamps, though. Can't say what Yankees did in
New Yawk.

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:06:39 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 11/26/2015 3:21 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:33:07 -0500, Micky
wrote:

A harder question since I don't know how much the starter motor on a
50cc scooter draws:

Wouldn't a clamp amp meter tell you the amp draw?

You know, I think I have one of those that I've never used. This
would be the time!

Clamp on meters (of the kind we can afford)

If it's suitable, and even if it's not, I bought it at....wait for
it..... Harbor Freight. They have them now for 12, 14, and 16
dollars. I don't remember which I bought. At that difference I
should have bought the best one maybe, but it might have even been on
sale to get me to buy something I don't need. I had a probably
better quality attachment for a meter that clamped on, but I think I
gave that away after I got this. It may have required multiplication
or division, and I said when I left the sixth grade, "No more of that
for me."

Looking at the pictures, it may be hard to get it around the wire. I
looked at the wire today.... maybe not hard. Of course, I'll have to
hold the brake and the starter motor button and look at the meter at
the same time but that will be easier than spraying ether, because the
air input is under the rear "fender".

http://www.harborfreight.com/digital...ter-96308.html 12
http://www.harborfreight.com/digital...ter-95652.html 14
http://www.harborfreight.com/digital...timeter-1.html 14
http://www.harborfreight.com/clamp-o...ultimeter.html 16

Cheapest one: 12 6-funciton
Clamp-style multimeter lets you make instant tests and measurements
without disconnecting wires. Use this clamp-on multimeter to test
amperage up to 400A. The digital multimeter features an easy-to-read
LCD display and an automatic zero adjust for precise and accurate
measurements.

Test AC/DC voltage, AC current, resistance, diode and audible
continuity test
Features an easy-to-read 3-1/2 digit LCD display
Resolution: 1999
Data hold retains information after test
Automatic zero adjust
Comes with (2) 36 in. test leads, three 3V lithium batteries
AC Volts 300V

$14 5 function, I don't know what is missing, oh, continuity.
Amperage and AC volts are higher
Amperage 1000A
AC Volts 750V

Other $14 also 5-function. but insulation test instead of diode. Also
no continuity.

$16 7-function
Test AC/DC voltage, AC current, resistance, diode, insulation and
continuity without splicing wires or puncturing insulation using this
handy digital multimeter! This multimeter features 17 test ranges and
an LCD with a maximum reading of 1999. The 7 function meter comes
complete with double-insulated leads and a handy carrying case for
easy storage and transportation.

Test AC/DC voltage, AC current, resistance, diode, insulation
test, continuity
17 test ranges
Diode test
LCD with maximum reading of 1999
Peak hold
Includes double-insulated leads
Includes carry case

AC Volts 200-750V
Amperage (amps) 20-200-1000A


only read AC. To read DC, needs to be inline.

It may be easier to find the rated reserve
capacity of the battery, and make SWAG from
there.

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:21:37 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:06:39 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 11/26/2015 3:21 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:33:07 -0500, Micky
wrote:

A harder question since I don't know how much the starter motor on a
50cc scooter draws:

Wouldn't a clamp amp meter tell you the amp draw?


Clamp on meters (of the kind we can afford)
only read AC. To read DC, needs to be inline.

It may be easier to find the rated reserve
capacity of the battery, and make SWAG from
there.

I'm no expert. I used a clamp meter of some type on a truck starter
cable back in the last century, clamped over the positive starter
cable. IIRC it told me something about a starter, a starter that had a
"drag" and increased amps due to -- in those days were bad bushings
and the armature was binding, I forget the details. The armature in
the starter was sticking and drawing high amps.

'Course I lived in the swamps, though. Can't say what Yankees did in
New Yawk.

To a foreigner, a Yankee is an American.
To an American, a Yankee is a northerner.
To a northerner, a Yankee is someone from New England.
To someone from New England a Yankee is someone from Maine.
And to someone from Maine, a Yankee is someone who eats apple pie for
breakfast.

Or blueberry.

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:45:27 -0500, Micky
wrote:

Wouldn't a clamp amp meter tell you the amp draw?

You know, I think I have one of those that I've never used. This
would be the time!


Put the meter clamp around the cable, on the correct setting.

Engage the ignition and read the meter under peak stress. I guess that
will give the max amp draw across the cable to the starter. Stormy
Head seems to think they only read AC?

On 11/26/2015 03:06 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Clamp on meters (of the kind we can afford)
only read AC. To read DC, needs to be inline.

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-digit...p-03482369000P


The Digital Clamp-On Ammeter measures AC/DC current up to 400 amps with
3.0 percent (VAC) accuracy without breaking the circuit

They may be lying but it shows 40A and 400A DC positions.

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:07:49 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

On 11/26/2015 03:06 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Clamp on meters (of the kind we can afford)
only read AC. To read DC, needs to be inline.

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-digit...p-03482369000P


The Digital Clamp-On Ammeter measures AC/DC current up to 400 amps with
3.0 percent (VAC) accuracy without breaking the circuit

They may be lying but it shows 40A and 400A DC positions.

So that's what a nice one looks like.

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:33:07 -0500, Micky
wrote:

A harder question since I don't know how much the starter motor on a
50cc scooter draws:

How long does it take a 1 amp charger to recharge what is removed from
the battery after cranking for 1 minute?


Same question but for a 2/10 amp charger when on the 2 amp setting?


When on the 10 amp setting?**

If the starter draws 20 amps for 1 minute it will take 20 minutes to
replaxce the charge at 1 amp charge rate You need to know what
current is being drawn and what current the charger is putting in -
which has very little to do with what size the charger is.

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:21:37 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:06:39 -0500, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 11/26/2015 3:21 PM, Oren wrote:
On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:33:07 -0500, Micky
wrote:

A harder question since I don't know how much the starter motor on a
50cc scooter draws:

Wouldn't a clamp amp meter tell you the amp draw?


Clamp on meters (of the kind we can afford)
only read AC. To read DC, needs to be inline.

It may be easier to find the rated reserve
capacity of the battery, and make SWAG from
there.

I'm no expert. I used a clamp meter of some type on a truck starter
cable back in the last century, clamped over the positive starter
cable. IIRC it told me something about a starter, a starter that had a
"drag" and increased amps due to -- in those days were bad bushings
and the armature was binding, I forget the details. The armature in
the starter was sticking and drawing high amps.

'Course I lived in the swamps, though. Can't say what Yankees did in
New Yawk.
There are simple DC ammeters that don't "clamp" on the wire but just
pass the wire through a slot or groove, and measure the magnetic flux
created by the current flow. Kinda like a compass with a light spring
on one side of the needle and a marked scale on the other.

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 15:17:05 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:45:27 -0500, Micky
wrote:

Wouldn't a clamp amp meter tell you the amp draw?

You know, I think I have one of those that I've never used. This
would be the time!


Put the meter clamp around the cable, on the correct setting.

Engage the ignition and read the meter under peak stress. I guess that
will give the max amp draw across the cable to the starter. Stormy
Head seems to think they only read AC?
The specs micky posted STATED they only read AC current - and it is
true. He needs a dc ammeter.

look at
http://www.hoytmeter.com/products/te...icators-detail

We used to use these "slip-on" ammeters for checking charging current
and starter current all the time "way back when" but I cannot find any
other info about them on the web. They were in a brass case, with a
wire guide on the back thet you passed the current carrying conductor
through, Back in the sixties they were about $15 for a set if I
remember correctly - which was far from cheap when you were earning $2
an hour - - - -

I still have my Herbrand HT700 that reads +/- 75 amps.

Just found one on Ebay -
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Vintage-Herbr...-/151739115613
The ht740 was for starters - up to 400 amps.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Two-Vintage-H...item1a090ed2cd

I'd be awfull tempted to get those 2 myself, at that price!!!!! (even
though I don't need them) - they'd cost me a bit over $25 for the
pair, delivered.

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:07:49 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-digit...p-03482369000P
I'm suspiscious of the accuracy of the description - it also says it
has a "Type K thermometer" - when all it has is connection to read a
type "K" thermocouple.

A clamp on AC current meter can be made using
Wire coils in the sensor.

A hall effect sensor is needed to make a DC
Clamp on current meter.

Fundamentally different technology.

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:07:49 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-digit...p-03482369000P
I'm suspiscious of the accuracy of the description - it also says it
has a "Type K thermometer" - when all it has is connection to read a
type "K" thermocouple.

I was thinking about getting one because of the DC amps, then read the specs
on it. The temperature could be way off.

I could not get my head around the part where it says so many digits either.
I think I may have an idea about it, but first time I have seen this.

I do have good meters for other functions other than the DC amp clamp
function, so no need to buy one that is totally accurate,but don't want one
that is 5 to 7 deg C off.

On Thursday, November 26, 2015 at 8:06:25 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:33:07 -0500, Micky
wrote:

A harder question since I don't know how much the starter motor on a
50cc scooter draws:

How long does it take a 1 amp charger to recharge what is removed from
the battery after cranking for 1 minute?


Same question but for a 2/10 amp charger when on the 2 amp setting?


When on the 10 amp setting?**

If the starter draws 20 amps for 1 minute it will take 20 minutes to
replaxce the charge at 1 amp charge rate You need to know what
current is being drawn and what current the charger is putting in -
which has very little to do with what size the charger is.

And if he's cranking for 1 minute, time to get
the engine fixed. Starters don't take nearly
as much out of a battery as some people think,
assuming the engine starts normally.
Even a car size starter today is on the order of
1000W and only cranks for a couple seconds.

On 11/26/2015 05:43 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:07:49 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-digit...p-03482369000P
I'm suspiscious of the accuracy of the description - it also says it
has a "Type K thermometer" - when all it has is connection to read a
type "K" thermocouple.

They don't show the leads, either, so I am assuming that both the leads
and the thermocouple come in the box.

Jon

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 20:40:46 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 15:17:05 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:45:27 -0500, Micky
wrote:

Wouldn't a clamp amp meter tell you the amp draw?

You know, I think I have one of those that I've never used. This
would be the time!


Put the meter clamp around the cable, on the correct setting.

Engage the ignition and read the meter under peak stress. I guess that
will give the max amp draw across the cable to the starter. Stormy
Head seems to think they only read AC?
The specs micky posted STATED they only read AC current - and it is
true. He needs a dc ammeter.

look at
http://www.hoytmeter.com/products/te...icators-detail

We used to use these "slip-on" ammeters for checking charging current
and starter current all the time "way back when" but I cannot find any
other info about them on the web. They were in a brass case, with a
wire guide on the back thet you passed the current carrying conductor
through, Back in the sixties they were about $15 for a set if I
remember correctly - which was far from cheap when you were earning $2
an hour - - - -

I still have my Herbrand HT700 that reads +/- 75 amps.

Just found one on Ebay -
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Vintage-Herbr...-/151739115613
The ht740 was for starters - up to 400 amps.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Two-Vintage-H...item1a090ed2cd

I'd be awfull tempted to get those 2 myself, at that price!!!!! (even
though I don't need them) - they'd cost me a bit over $25 for the
pair, delivered.

ISTR a Youtube video where a guy used those, maybe Herbrand, on a
vehicle to check for a broken wire. At one side of the break he had
amps, but not on the other -- so the wire break was located. He sold
the meter on his web site.

Is my recollection correct? I'll look for the video later.

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 05:50:58 -0800, Jon Danniken
wrote:

On 11/26/2015 05:43 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:07:49 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-digit...p-03482369000P
I'm suspiscious of the accuracy of the description - it also says it
has a "Type K thermometer" - when all it has is connection to read a
type "K" thermocouple.

They don't show the leads, either, so I am assuming that both the leads
and the thermocouple come in the box.

Jon

The manual shows them. http://c.shld.net/assets/own/03482369e.pdf

As does the URL under "package contents".

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 07:24:22 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 20:40:46 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 15:17:05 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:45:27 -0500, Micky
wrote:

Wouldn't a clamp amp meter tell you the amp draw?

You know, I think I have one of those that I've never used. This
would be the time!


Put the meter clamp around the cable, on the correct setting.

Engage the ignition and read the meter under peak stress. I guess that
will give the max amp draw across the cable to the starter. Stormy
Head seems to think they only read AC?
The specs micky posted STATED they only read AC current - and it is
true. He needs a dc ammeter.

look at
http://www.hoytmeter.com/products/te...icators-detail

We used to use these "slip-on" ammeters for checking charging current
and starter current all the time "way back when" but I cannot find any
other info about them on the web. They were in a brass case, with a
wire guide on the back thet you passed the current carrying conductor
through, Back in the sixties they were about $15 for a set if I
remember correctly - which was far from cheap when you were earning $2
an hour - - - -

I still have my Herbrand HT700 that reads +/- 75 amps.

Just found one on Ebay -
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Vintage-Herbr...-/151739115613
The ht740 was for starters - up to 400 amps.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Two-Vintage-H...item1a090ed2cd

I'd be awfull tempted to get those 2 myself, at that price!!!!! (even
though I don't need them) - they'd cost me a bit over $25 for the
pair, delivered.

ISTR a Youtube video where a guy used those, maybe Herbrand, on a
vehicle to check for a broken wire. At one side of the break he had
amps, but not on the other -- so the wire break was located. He sold
the meter on his web site.

Is my recollection correct? I'll look for the video later.
Can't use an ammeter to check for an open, but there was a kit made
to locate shorts that worked that way - it had an "interupter" that
took the place of the fuse and turned the current on and off - pulsing
it, due to the short (in reality, just a self resetting thermal
breaker.) I still have the meter portion from mine - the breaker went
up on smoke about 20 or 30 years ago.

The wire would have a pulsing current on the battery side of the short
- and no current beyond it.

They worked reasonably well for a while - - - -

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 13:37:24 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 07:24:22 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 20:40:46 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 15:17:05 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:45:27 -0500, Micky
wrote:

Wouldn't a clamp amp meter tell you the amp draw?

You know, I think I have one of those that I've never used. This
would be the time!


Put the meter clamp around the cable, on the correct setting.

Engage the ignition and read the meter under peak stress. I guess that
will give the max amp draw across the cable to the starter. Stormy
Head seems to think they only read AC?
The specs micky posted STATED they only read AC current - and it is
true. He needs a dc ammeter.

look at
http://www.hoytmeter.com/products/te...icators-detail

We used to use these "slip-on" ammeters for checking charging current
and starter current all the time "way back when" but I cannot find any
other info about them on the web. They were in a brass case, with a
wire guide on the back thet you passed the current carrying conductor
through, Back in the sixties they were about $15 for a set if I
remember correctly - which was far from cheap when you were earning $2
an hour - - - -

I still have my Herbrand HT700 that reads +/- 75 amps.

Just found one on Ebay -
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Vintage-Herbr...-/151739115613
The ht740 was for starters - up to 400 amps.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Two-Vintage-H...item1a090ed2cd

I'd be awfull tempted to get those 2 myself, at that price!!!!! (even
though I don't need them) - they'd cost me a bit over $25 for the
pair, delivered.

ISTR a Youtube video where a guy used those, maybe Herbrand, on a
vehicle to check for a broken wire. At one side of the break he had
amps, but not on the other -- so the wire break was located. He sold
the meter on his web site.

Is my recollection correct? I'll look for the video later.
Can't use an ammeter to check for an open, but there was a kit made
to locate shorts that worked that way - it had an "interupter" that
took the place of the fuse and turned the current on and off - pulsing
it, due to the short (in reality, just a self resetting thermal
breaker.) I still have the meter portion from mine - the breaker went
up on smoke about 20 or 30 years ago.

The wire would have a pulsing current on the battery side of the short
- and no current beyond it.

They worked reasonably well for a while - - - -

This is the kit he used (inline-fuse that cooled and reset & amp
meter) . The wire was shorting to ground.

http://realfixesrealfast.com/short-finder.html

This is the video I mentioned: (22:00)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZrCrBx4uFY

Here he finds an intermittent where the wire was broken: (22:00)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux_9782rOsI

I get all my electrical verbiage mixed up

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 11:05:29 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 13:37:24 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 07:24:22 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 20:40:46 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 15:17:05 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:45:27 -0500, Micky
wrote:

Wouldn't a clamp amp meter tell you the amp draw?

You know, I think I have one of those that I've never used. This
would be the time!


Put the meter clamp around the cable, on the correct setting.

Engage the ignition and read the meter under peak stress. I guess that
will give the max amp draw across the cable to the starter. Stormy
Head seems to think they only read AC?
The specs micky posted STATED they only read AC current - and it is
true. He needs a dc ammeter.

look at
http://www.hoytmeter.com/products/te...icators-detail

We used to use these "slip-on" ammeters for checking charging current
and starter current all the time "way back when" but I cannot find any
other info about them on the web. They were in a brass case, with a
wire guide on the back thet you passed the current carrying conductor
through, Back in the sixties they were about $15 for a set if I
remember correctly - which was far from cheap when you were earning $2
an hour - - - -

I still have my Herbrand HT700 that reads +/- 75 amps.

Just found one on Ebay -
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Vintage-Herbr...-/151739115613
The ht740 was for starters - up to 400 amps.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Two-Vintage-H...item1a090ed2cd

I'd be awfull tempted to get those 2 myself, at that price!!!!! (even
though I don't need them) - they'd cost me a bit over $25 for the
pair, delivered.

ISTR a Youtube video where a guy used those, maybe Herbrand, on a
vehicle to check for a broken wire. At one side of the break he had
amps, but not on the other -- so the wire break was located. He sold
the meter on his web site.

Is my recollection correct? I'll look for the video later.
Can't use an ammeter to check for an open, but there was a kit made
to locate shorts that worked that way - it had an "interupter" that
took the place of the fuse and turned the current on and off - pulsing
it, due to the short (in reality, just a self resetting thermal
breaker.) I still have the meter portion from mine - the breaker went
up on smoke about 20 or 30 years ago.

The wire would have a pulsing current on the battery side of the short
- and no current beyond it.

They worked reasonably well for a while - - - -

This is the kit he used (inline-fuse that cooled and reset & amp
meter) . The wire was shorting to ground.

http://realfixesrealfast.com/short-finder.html

This is the video I mentioned: (22:00)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZrCrBx4uFY

Here he finds an intermittent where the wire was broken: (22:00)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux_9782rOsI

I get all my electrical verbiage mixed up


I didn't look at the video, but he would find an intermittent short
where wire insulation was damaged. Locating an intermittent open
requires more sophisticated equipment.

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 16:40:29 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 11:05:29 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 13:37:24 -0500, wrote:

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 07:24:22 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 20:40:46 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 15:17:05 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:45:27 -0500, Micky
wrote:

Wouldn't a clamp amp meter tell you the amp draw?

You know, I think I have one of those that I've never used. This
would be the time!


Put the meter clamp around the cable, on the correct setting.

Engage the ignition and read the meter under peak stress. I guess that
will give the max amp draw across the cable to the starter. Stormy
Head seems to think they only read AC?
The specs micky posted STATED they only read AC current - and it is
true. He needs a dc ammeter.

look at
http://www.hoytmeter.com/products/te...icators-detail

We used to use these "slip-on" ammeters for checking charging current
and starter current all the time "way back when" but I cannot find any
other info about them on the web. They were in a brass case, with a
wire guide on the back thet you passed the current carrying conductor
through, Back in the sixties they were about $15 for a set if I
remember correctly - which was far from cheap when you were earning $2
an hour - - - -

I still have my Herbrand HT700 that reads +/- 75 amps.

Just found one on Ebay -
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Vintage-Herbr...-/151739115613
The ht740 was for starters - up to 400 amps.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Two-Vintage-H...item1a090ed2cd

I'd be awfull tempted to get those 2 myself, at that price!!!!! (even
though I don't need them) - they'd cost me a bit over $25 for the
pair, delivered.

ISTR a Youtube video where a guy used those, maybe Herbrand, on a
vehicle to check for a broken wire. At one side of the break he had
amps, but not on the other -- so the wire break was located. He sold
the meter on his web site.

Is my recollection correct? I'll look for the video later.
Can't use an ammeter to check for an open, but there was a kit made
to locate shorts that worked that way - it had an "interupter" that
took the place of the fuse and turned the current on and off - pulsing
it, due to the short (in reality, just a self resetting thermal
breaker.) I still have the meter portion from mine - the breaker went
up on smoke about 20 or 30 years ago.

The wire would have a pulsing current on the battery side of the short
- and no current beyond it.

They worked reasonably well for a while - - - -

This is the kit he used (inline-fuse that cooled and reset & amp
meter) . The wire was shorting to ground.

http://realfixesrealfast.com/short-finder.html

This is the video I mentioned: (22:00)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZrCrBx4uFY

Here he finds an intermittent where the wire was broken: (22:00)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ux_9782rOsI

I get all my electrical verbiage mixed up


I didn't look at the video, but he would find an intermittent short
where wire insulation was damaged. Locating an intermittent open
requires more sophisticated equipment.

Yes the equipment was more sophisticated (scanner / labscope). He
still used the amp meter you mention to track things down. When he
opened the cable bundle to inspect - the intermittent wire broke.

He could reproduce the problem near the computer module.

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 08:35:57 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 05:50:58 -0800, Jon Danniken
wrote:

On 11/26/2015 05:43 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:07:49 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-digit...p-03482369000P
I'm suspiscious of the accuracy of the description - it also says it
has a "Type K thermometer" - when all it has is connection to read a
type "K" thermocouple.

They don't show the leads, either, so I am assuming that both the leads
and the thermocouple come in the box.

Jon

The manual shows them. http://c.shld.net/assets/own/03482369e.pdf

As does the URL under "package contents".

I have one of those Harbor Freight meters with a thermometer lead. I
don't know how well it works and I don't have much need to measure
such things, and somewhere I have a meat or candy thermometer anyhow.

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 05:36:04 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Thursday, November 26, 2015 at 8:06:25 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 14:33:07 -0500, Micky
wrote:

A harder question since I don't know how much the starter motor on a
50cc scooter draws:

How long does it take a 1 amp charger to recharge what is removed from
the battery after cranking for 1 minute?


Same question but for a 2/10 amp charger when on the 2 amp setting?


When on the 10 amp setting?**

If the starter draws 20 amps for 1 minute it will take 20 minutes to
replaxce the charge at 1 amp charge rate You need to know what
current is being drawn and what current the charger is putting in -
which has very little to do with what size the charger is.

And if he's cranking for 1 minute, time to get
the engine fixed. Starters don't take nearly

It often doesn't engage, but it only takes me a second or 2 to notice
that. I release the button and within a time or two more it
engages. After that, it starts if it's going to in 5 or 10 seconds.
Once almost immediately.

as much out of a battery as some people think,
assuming the engine starts normally.
Even a car size starter today is on the order of
1000W and only cranks for a couple seconds.

On Saturday, November 28, 2015 at 1:13:36 AM UTC-6, Micky wrote:
On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 08:35:57 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 05:50:58 -0800, Jon Danniken
wrote:

On 11/26/2015 05:43 PM, wrote:
On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:07:49 -0700, rbowman
wrote:

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-digit...p-03482369000P
I'm suspiscious of the accuracy of the description - it also says it
has a "Type K thermometer" - when all it has is connection to read a
type "K" thermocouple.

They don't show the leads, either, so I am assuming that both the leads
and the thermocouple come in the box.

Jon

The manual shows them. http://c.shld.net/assets/own/03482369e.pdf

As does the URL under "package contents".

I have one of those Harbor Freight meters with a thermometer lead. I
don't know how well it works and I don't have much need to measure
such things, and somewhere I have a meat or candy thermometer anyhow.

I have a few digital thermometers that connect to thermocouples and I've used one of them in the kitchen to check the oven temperature in real time. I was able to see how much the temperature would go up and down as the gas burner cut on and off. I also used it to check the refrigerator to watch the temperature recover and see how much time it took. You can also stick the end of the thermocouple in some plastic wrap, put the end in your mouth and check your temperature. You can also observe your temperature change as you watch a speech by a politician on TV. (€¢€¿€¢)

[8~{} Uncle Hot Monster

posted for all of us...



On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 15:17:05 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:45:27 -0500, Micky
wrote:

Wouldn't a clamp amp meter tell you the amp draw?

You know, I think I have one of those that I've never used. This
would be the time!


Put the meter clamp around the cable, on the correct setting.

Engage the ignition and read the meter under peak stress. I guess that
will give the max amp draw across the cable to the starter. Stormy
Head seems to think they only read AC?
The specs micky posted STATED they only read AC current - and it is
true. He needs a dc ammeter.

look at
http://www.hoytmeter.com/products/te...icators-detail

We used to use these "slip-on" ammeters for checking charging current
and starter current all the time "way back when" but I cannot find any
other info about them on the web. They were in a brass case, with a
wire guide on the back thet you passed the current carrying conductor
through, Back in the sixties they were about $15 for a set if I
remember correctly - which was far from cheap when you were earning $2
an hour - - - -

I still have my Herbrand HT700 that reads +/- 75 amps.

Just found one on Ebay -
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Vintage-Herbr...-/151739115613
The ht740 was for starters - up to 400 amps.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Two-Vintage-H...item1a090ed2cd

I'd be awfull tempted to get those 2 myself, at that price!!!!! (even
though I don't need them) - they'd cost me a bit over $25 for the
pair, delivered.

Ah, more memories. Back then DC ammeters were just not that available;
except in car dashboards... Digital?? Wuz dat?

--
Tekkie

posted for all of us...



On Fri, 27 Nov 2015 07:24:22 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 20:40:46 -0500, wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 15:17:05 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Thu, 26 Nov 2015 17:45:27 -0500, Micky
wrote:

Wouldn't a clamp amp meter tell you the amp draw?

You know, I think I have one of those that I've never used. This
would be the time!


Put the meter clamp around the cable, on the correct setting.

Engage the ignition and read the meter under peak stress. I guess that
will give the max amp draw across the cable to the starter. Stormy
Head seems to think they only read AC?
The specs micky posted STATED they only read AC current - and it is
true. He needs a dc ammeter.

look at
http://www.hoytmeter.com/products/te...icators-detail

We used to use these "slip-on" ammeters for checking charging current
and starter current all the time "way back when" but I cannot find any
other info about them on the web. They were in a brass case, with a
wire guide on the back thet you passed the current carrying conductor
through, Back in the sixties they were about $15 for a set if I
remember correctly - which was far from cheap when you were earning $2
an hour - - - -

I still have my Herbrand HT700 that reads +/- 75 amps.

Just found one on Ebay -
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Vintage-Herbr...-/151739115613
The ht740 was for starters - up to 400 amps.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Two-Vintage-H...item1a090ed2cd

I'd be awfull tempted to get those 2 myself, at that price!!!!! (even
though I don't need them) - they'd cost me a bit over $25 for the
pair, delivered.

ISTR a Youtube video where a guy used those, maybe Herbrand, on a
vehicle to check for a broken wire. At one side of the break he had
amps, but not on the other -- so the wire break was located. He sold
the meter on his web site.

Is my recollection correct? I'll look for the video later.
Can't use an ammeter to check for an open, but there was a kit made
to locate shorts that worked that way - it had an "interupter" that
took the place of the fuse and turned the current on and off - pulsing
it, due to the short (in reality, just a self resetting thermal
breaker.) I still have the meter portion from mine - the breaker went
up on smoke about 20 or 30 years ago.

The wire would have a pulsing current on the battery side of the short
- and no current beyond it.

They worked reasonably well for a while - - - -

Yah, had one of those too. PIA

--
Tekkie

Uncle Monster posted for all of us...


You can also stick the end of the thermocouple in some plastic wrap, put
the end in your rectum and check your temperature


I changed your text to bring out your true thoughts Unc.

Actually the plastic wrap is optional.

I have a question when young and playing Doctor did one consider sterility?

--
Tekkie

On Saturday, November 28, 2015 at 2:25:46 PM UTC-6, Turdie® wrote:
Uncle Monster posted for all of us...

You can also stick the end of the thermocouple in some plastic wrap, put
the end in your rectum and check your temperature

I changed your text to bring out your true thoughts Unc.

Actually the plastic wrap is optional.

I have a question when young and playing Doctor did one consider sterility?
--
Tekkie

Ain't post editing fun? You can make everyone think you're Burka Boy using a sock.

You don't have to use the plastic wrap if you stick the thermocouple under your arm.

When I played doctor as a kid, I got in serious trouble for using a real scalpel. When I last played doctor I made believe I was a gynecologist. It's always best to have a willing make believe patient. ヽ(€¢€¿€¢)ノ

[8~{} Uncle Scandalous Monster