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"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
I have a 16-ft. "every-which-way" ladder that I've had for maybe 20
years, so when I saw what was described as a "22'" multifunction ladder (Keller KMT-22) advertised at a considerable discount, I thought it might be worth upgrading. BUT when I looked at the detailed specs. it turns out that it's really only 18-ft 3-in. long: the claimed "22'" is the height one can reach when standing on the highest permitted rung; this, I am told, is the "industry-standard" method of labeling ladders. I guess that if we didn't have decent regulations, we'd have 3-qt. "gallons" of milk and gasoline, and 40-ft. reels of electrical wire labeled as "50-ft." I didn't buy the ladder. Perce |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
In "Percival P. Cassidy" writes:
I guess that if we didn't have decent regulations, we'd have 3-qt. "gallons" of milk and gasoline, and 40-ft. reels of electrical wire labeled as "50-ft." Home Depot and some others recently settled in California for... not pointing out that "2 by 4"s are really something like "1.5 by 3.25", or whatever the real number is. -- __________________________________________________ ___ Knowledge may be power, but communications is the key [to foil spammers, my address has been double rot-13 encoded] |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
On 11/02/2015 11:43 PM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
I have a 16-ft. "every-which-way" ladder that I've had for maybe 20 years, so when I saw what was described as a "22'" multifunction ladder (Keller KMT-22) advertised at a considerable discount, I thought it might be worth upgrading. BUT when I looked at the detailed specs. it turns out that it's really only 18-ft 3-in. long: the claimed "22'" is the height one can reach when standing on the highest permitted rung; this, I am told, is the "industry-standard" method of labeling ladders. I guess that if we didn't have decent regulations, we'd have 3-qt. "gallons" of milk and gasoline, and 40-ft. reels of electrical wire labeled as "50-ft." I didn't buy the ladder. Perce Most men claim they have 8". Ha! |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
On 11/02/2015 10:43 PM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
I have a 16-ft. "every-which-way" ladder that I've had for maybe 20 years, so when I saw what was described as a "22'" multifunction ladder (Keller KMT-22) advertised at a considerable discount, I thought it might be worth upgrading. BUT when I looked at the detailed specs. it turns out that it's really only 18-ft 3-in. long: the claimed "22'" is the height one can reach when standing on the highest permitted rung; this, I am told, is the "industry-standard" method of labeling ladders. I guess that if we didn't have decent regulations, we'd have 3-qt. "gallons" of milk and gasoline, and 40-ft. reels of electrical wire labeled as "50-ft." A "gallon" is the amount you can use if you drink fast while filling the container. You can use the 40-foot cord for a light and still see things 50 feet from the receptacle. I didn't buy the ladder. Perce -- 52 days until the winter celebration (Friday December 25, 2015 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). "No kingdom has shed more blood than the kingdom of Christ." [Montiesque] |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
On 11/03/2015 03:35 AM, Anita Dick wrote:
[snip] Most men claim they have 8". Ha! 9mm (just a silly little millimeter longer) :-) -- 52 days until the winter celebration (Friday December 25, 2015 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). "No kingdom has shed more blood than the kingdom of Christ." [Montiesque] |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message ... I have a 16-ft. "every-which-way" ladder that I've had for maybe 20 years, so when I saw what was described as a "22'" multifunction ladder (Keller KMT-22) advertised at a considerable discount, I thought it might be worth upgrading. BUT when I looked at the detailed specs. it turns out that it's really only 18-ft 3-in. long: the claimed "22'" is the height one can reach when standing on the highest permitted rung; this, I am told, is the "industry-standard" method of labeling ladders. I guess that if we didn't have decent regulations, we'd have 3-qt. "gallons" of milk and gasoline, and 40-ft. reels of electrical wire labeled as "50-ft." I didn't buy the ladder. Perce I always understood that an extension ladder was measured by the sum of the two lengths separately. A 22 foot ladder would be two 11 foot lengths, but when put together for a long reach would have some overlap that reduced the useable length to something like 18' 3". I suppose the manufacturer of a "multifunction ladder" uses the same criteria (excuse) to compare the ladders and to others. This would be the same as air compressor manufacturers who boast of 5 horsepower with a motor that draws 7 amps. Impossible. |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
On 11/03/2015 01:37 PM, EXT wrote:
[snip] This would be the same as air compressor manufacturers who boast of 5 horsepower with a motor that draws 7 amps. Impossible. I remember seeing a "3HP" electric chain saw at Lowe's that plugs into a standard (120V 15A) outlet. -- 52 days until the winter celebration (Friday December 25, 2015 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence." Bertrand Russell |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
On 11/03/2015 02:37 PM, EXT wrote:
I have a 16-ft. "every-which-way" ladder that I've had for maybe 20 years, so when I saw what was described as a "22'" multifunction ladder (Keller KMT-22) advertised at a considerable discount, I thought it might be worth upgrading. BUT when I looked at the detailed specs. it turns out that it's really only 18-ft 3-in. long: the claimed "22'" is the height one can reach when standing on the highest permitted rung; this, I am told, is the "industry-standard" method of labeling ladders. I guess that if we didn't have decent regulations, we'd have 3-qt. "gallons" of milk and gasoline, and 40-ft. reels of electrical wire labeled as "50-ft." I didn't buy the ladder. I always understood that an extension ladder was measured by the sum of the two lengths separately. A 22 foot ladder would be two 11 foot lengths, but when put together for a long reach would have some overlap that reduced the useable length to something like 18' 3". I suppose the manufacturer of a "multifunction ladder" uses the same criteria (excuse) to compare the ladders and to others. This would be the same as air compressor manufacturers who boast of 5 horsepower with a motor that draws 7 amps. Impossible. But look he http://www.kellerladder.net/view/PRO.../T10700/T10718 The "reach height" of that ladder is also 22 ft. (the same as that of the ladder I considered buying -- and by the same manufacturer), but it is *not* described as a 22 ft. ladder: it is described as an 18 ft. ladder, which is its *true* height. And here is an extension ladder from the same manufacturer: http://www.kellerladder.net/view/PRO...rs/3100K/3116K This is described as a 16 ft. ladder, but even the "reach height" is less than the advertised length of the ladder: only 15 ft. Perce |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
On 11/3/2015 8:48 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 11/03/2015 01:37 PM, EXT wrote: [snip] This would be the same as air compressor manufacturers who boast of 5 horsepower with a motor that draws 7 amps. Impossible. I remember seeing a "3HP" electric chain saw at Lowe's that plugs into a standard (120V 15A) outlet. After using the saw, clean up with the 5 HP shop vac. They use the locked rotor rating that occurs for a half second or so before the breaker trips. While meaningless by itself, if everyone uses the same method it give you some idea for comparison. |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
On 11/2/2015 11:43 PM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
I have a 16-ft. "every-which-way" ladder that I've had for maybe 20 years, so when I saw what was described as a "22'" multifunction ladder (Keller KMT-22) advertised at a considerable discount, I thought it might be worth upgrading. BUT when I looked at the detailed specs. it turns out that it's really only 18-ft 3-in. long: the claimed "22'" is the height one can reach when standing on the highest permitted rung; this, I am told, is the "industry-standard" method of labeling ladders. I guess that if we didn't have decent regulations, we'd have 3-qt. "gallons" of milk and gasoline, and 40-ft. reels of electrical wire labeled as "50-ft." I didn't buy the ladder. Perce Got me irritated that 5 gal. propane refilled tanks have label that says 16 lbs which is 4 gallons. You have to look carefully at the label and if incorrect, you may have a case. |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
On 11/4/2015 9:21 AM, Frank wrote:
Got me irritated that 5 gal. propane refilled tanks have label that says 16 lbs which is 4 gallons. You have to look carefully at the label and if incorrect, you may have a case. When I worked for U Haul, we'd put 20 pounds into a 20 pound tank. I asked about the 80% expansion, and they told me that was already figured in. The U haul near you likely provides good value, also. Blue Rhino has been on the web, short filling tanks. -- .. Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .. www.lds.org .. .. |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
On 11/2/2015 10:43 PM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
I have a 16-ft. "every-which-way" ladder that I've had for maybe 20 years, so when I saw what was described as a "22'" multifunction ladder (Keller KMT-22) advertised at a considerable discount, I thought it might be worth upgrading. BUT when I looked at the detailed specs. it turns out that it's really only 18-ft 3-in. long: the claimed "22'" is the height one can reach when standing on the highest permitted rung; this, I am told, is the "industry-standard" method of labeling ladders. Combination ladder sizes are measured differently than step and extension ladders. From the ANSI standard: https://law.resource.org/pub/us/cfr/....1990.svg.html American National Standard for Ladders €” Portable Metal €” Safety Requirements 4. Definitions and Nomenclature combination ladder. A portable ladder capable of being used either as a stepladder or as a single or extension ladder. It may also be capable of being used as a trestle ladder or a stairwell ladder. Its components may be used as single ladders. extension ladder. A non-self-supporting portable ladder adjustable in length. It consists of two or more sections traveling in guides or brackets or the equivalent and so arranged as to permit length adjustment. stepladder. A self-supporting portable ladder, non-adjustable in length, with flat steps and a hinged base. 6.1 Stepladders 6.1.1 Stepladder Size. Stepladders longer than 20 feet shall not be supplied. The size shall be measured along the front edge of the front side rail, including top cap and foot, with a tolerance of ±1/2 inch. Heavyduty (type-I) and extra-heavy-duty (type-IA) ladders shall be 3 to 20 feet; medium-duty (type-II) ladders shall be 3 to 12 feet; and light-duty (type-III) ladders shall be 3 to 6 feet in length (see 8.2.1.1). 6.2.4 Extension-Ladder Size. The size of an extension ladder is designated by the sum of the lengths of one side rail of each section measured along the side rails, excluding any foot or end cap. A tolerance of ±3 inches per section shall be allowed. Extension ladders shall not exceed the sizes specified in Table 1. Extension ladders shall be marked to indicate both the total length of sections and the maximum extended length or maximum working length. 6.5 Combination Ladders 6.5.1 Combination-Ladder Size. When the combination ladder is used as a self-supporting ladder, the size is designated by the length of the ladder measured along the front edge of the front side rail from the bottom of the foot to the top of the top cap, or to the top step when no top cap is used, with a tolerance of ±1/2 inch, and shall be within the limits shown in Table 4. When the combination ladder is used as an extension ladder, the maximum extended length shall be at least twice the stepladder length less 3 feet. The stepladder length and the maximum extension-ladder length shall be within ±1/2 inch of the size indicated on the label. |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message ... I have a 16-ft. "every-which-way" ladder that I've had for maybe 20 years, so when I saw what was described as a "22'" multifunction ladder (Keller KMT-22) advertised at a considerable discount, I thought it might be worth upgrading. BUT when I looked at the detailed specs. it turns out that it's really only 18-ft 3-in. long: the claimed "22'" is the height one can reach when standing on the highest permitted rung; this, I am told, is the "industry-standard" method of labeling ladders. I guess that if we didn't have decent regulations, we'd have 3-qt. "gallons" of milk and gasoline, and 40-ft. reels of electrical wire labeled as "50-ft." Seems that almost everything but pipe is labled lagrer than what it is. A few months ago I was looking at pole saws to trim some tree limbs. Some of them were listed as to the length of the pole ans some were listed as how far you could reach with the pole. That made some seem about 4 feet longer than the others with the same or even longer poles. |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
On 11/03/2015 08:48 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 11/3/2015 8:48 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote: On 11/03/2015 01:37 PM, EXT wrote: [snip] This would be the same as air compressor manufacturers who boast of 5 horsepower with a motor that draws 7 amps. Impossible. I remember seeing a "3HP" electric chain saw at Lowe's that plugs into a standard (120V 15A) outlet. After using the saw, clean up with the 5 HP shop vac. They use the locked rotor rating that occurs for a half second or so before the breaker trips. While meaningless by itself, if everyone uses the same method it give you some idea for comparison. I looked at my central A/C compressor, which lists locked rotor current as 82A (240V). It normally uses 17A. -- 51 days until the winter celebration (Friday December 25, 2015 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "Religion is a collective insanity." -- Mikhail A. Bakunin (1814-1876), Russian anarchist and writer |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
On 11/04/2015 08:21 AM, Frank wrote:
[snip] Got me irritated that 5 gal. propane refilled tanks have label that says 16 lbs which is 4 gallons. I have a generator that uses propane. After I had used it (after the tornado we had in May), I took a couple of 20-pound tanks to be refilled (not exchange). According to weight, they now hold 20 pounds each (empty tank weight 16.6, full tank weight 36.6 pounds). BTW, the amount they charged was similar to a Blue Rhino exchange, but for more propane. -- 51 days until the winter celebration (Friday December 25, 2015 12:00:00 AM for 1 day). Mark Lloyd http://notstupid.us/ "Religion is a collective insanity." -- Mikhail A. Bakunin (1814-1876), Russian anarchist and writer |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
On 11/4/2015 12:21 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 11/04/2015 08:21 AM, Frank wrote: [snip] Got me irritated that 5 gal. propane refilled tanks have label that says 16 lbs which is 4 gallons. I have a generator that uses propane. After I had used it (after the tornado we had in May), I took a couple of 20-pound tanks to be refilled (not exchange). According to weight, they now hold 20 pounds each (empty tank weight 16.6, full tank weight 36.6 pounds). BTW, the amount they charged was similar to a Blue Rhino exchange, but for more propane. I have my tanks refilled at the Ace Hardware for $14.99, and I've watched the meter when they refill them. Usually the meter reads about 4.7 to 4.8 gallons. However, they set it on a scale while refilling, so they go by weight, not gallons. That's still better than a Blue Rhino exchange. |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
On 11/4/2015 1:21 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:
I have a generator that uses propane. After I had used it (after the tornado we had in May), I took a couple of 20-pound tanks to be refilled (not exchange). According to weight, they now hold 20 pounds each (empty tank weight 16.6, full tank weight 36.6 pounds). BTW, the amount they charged was similar to a Blue Rhino exchange, but for more propane. They, who? Please speak kindly and loudly about honest people. -- .. Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .. www.lds.org .. .. |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
On Wed, 4 Nov 2015 13:06:52 -0600, "Mr.Emann"
wrote: On 11/4/2015 12:21 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote: On 11/04/2015 08:21 AM, Frank wrote: [snip] Got me irritated that 5 gal. propane refilled tanks have label that says 16 lbs which is 4 gallons. I have a generator that uses propane. After I had used it (after the tornado we had in May), I took a couple of 20-pound tanks to be refilled (not exchange). According to weight, they now hold 20 pounds each (empty tank weight 16.6, full tank weight 36.6 pounds). BTW, the amount they charged was similar to a Blue Rhino exchange, but for more propane. I have my tanks refilled at the Ace Hardware for $14.99, and I've watched the meter when they refill them. Usually the meter reads about 4.7 to 4.8 gallons. However, they set it on a scale while refilling, so they go by weight, not gallons. That's still better than a Blue Rhino exchange. Blue Rhino is charging you for convenience and I am sure they also factor in the number of expired tanks they end up taking. I know that is the only kind I ever swap. ;-) Walmart just opened a new store up the street from me with Blue Rhino swaps for $15 and the cages are full of brand new tanks. I have already swapped 2 that were so out of test my regular guy wouldn't touch them. |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
On 11/04/2015 11:54 AM, Moe DeLoughan wrote:
I have a 16-ft. "every-which-way" ladder that I've had for maybe 20 years, so when I saw what was described as a "22'" multifunction ladder (Keller KMT-22) advertised at a considerable discount, I thought it might be worth upgrading. BUT when I looked at the detailed specs. it turns out that it's really only 18-ft 3-in. long: the claimed "22'" is the height one can reach when standing on the highest permitted rung; this, I am told, is the "industry-standard" method of labeling ladders. Combination ladder sizes are measured differently than step and extension ladders. From the ANSI standard: https://law.resource.org/pub/us/cfr/....1990.svg.html American National Standard for Ladders €” Portable Metal €” Safety Requirements 4. Definitions and Nomenclature combination ladder. A portable ladder capable of being used either as a stepladder or as a single or extension ladder. It may also be capable of being used as a trestle ladder or a stairwell ladder. Its components may be used as single ladders. extension ladder. A non-self-supporting portable ladder adjustable in length. It consists of two or more sections traveling in guides or brackets or the equivalent and so arranged as to permit length adjustment. stepladder. A self-supporting portable ladder, non-adjustable in length, with flat steps and a hinged base. 6.1 Stepladders 6.1.1 Stepladder Size. Stepladders longer than 20 feet shall not be supplied. The size shall be measured along the front edge of the front side rail, including top cap and foot, with a tolerance of ±1/2 inch. Heavyduty (type-I) and extra-heavy-duty (type-IA) ladders shall be 3 to 20 feet; medium-duty (type-II) ladders shall be 3 to 12 feet; and light-duty (type-III) ladders shall be 3 to 6 feet in length (see 8.2.1.1). 6.2.4 Extension-Ladder Size. The size of an extension ladder is designated by the sum of the lengths of one side rail of each section measured along the side rails, excluding any foot or end cap. A tolerance of ±3 inches per section shall be allowed. Extension ladders shall not exceed the sizes specified in Table 1. Extension ladders shall be marked to indicate both the total length of sections and the maximum extended length or maximum working length. 6.5 Combination Ladders 6.5.1 Combination-Ladder Size. When the combination ladder is used as a self-supporting ladder, the size is designated by the length of the ladder measured along the front edge of the front side rail from the bottom of the foot to the top of the top cap, or to the top step when no top cap is used, with a tolerance of ±1/2 inch, and shall be within the limits shown in Table 4. When the combination ladder is used as an extension ladder, the maximum extended length shall be at least twice the stepladder length less 3 feet. The stepladder length and the maximum extension-ladder length shall be within ±1/2 inch of the size indicated on the label. OK. The ladder I looked at was labeled as 18 ft. 3 in., which no doubt complies with the Standard. But that does not, in my opinion excuse calling it, and advertising it as, a 22 ft. ladder. There is no physical way even, let alone a legal way, in which it can be configured as a 22ft.-long ladder. Perce |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
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"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
There is also nothing in the Constitution about speed limits, driver's lic and a multitude of other things that must be regulated
Bureau of weights and standards ( or similar terms) in each state does it as well as national agencies promulgating standards...or would you rather leave it open to any Tom, Dick and Harry to say what the size/weight/capacity is of something he is selling? Harry K |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
On Monday, November 2, 2015 at 9:12:46 PM UTC-8, danny burstein wrote:
In "Percival P. Cassidy" writes: I guess that if we didn't have decent regulations, we'd have 3-qt. "gallons" of milk and gasoline, and 40-ft. reels of electrical wire labeled as "50-ft." Home Depot and some others recently settled in California for... not pointing out that "2 by 4"s are really something like "1.5 by 3.25", or whatever the real number is. I wonder what the regs are on Log Splitters. multiplying Pi R squared by the rated pump output comes up considerably less than the claimed tonnage on the one I have checked. And that is without deducting the area of the piston rod. |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
Might sort itself out. We did that for years.
PS, please leave some quoted text. -- .. Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .. www.lds.org .. .. |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
On 11/05/2015 11:00 AM, Harry K wrote:
I wonder what the regs are on Log Splitters. multiplying Pi R squared by the rated pump output comes up considerably less than the claimed tonnage on the one I have checked. And that is without deducting the area of the piston rod. The rod end doesn't matter unless there is some back pressure in the return line. Then you'd need to deduct that pressure acting on the annulus. I don't know anything about log splitters other than those that resemble an ax but I wonder if it's some sort of marketing concept like 'tons per square inch exerted by the face of the wedge'. |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 7:30:12 PM UTC-8, rbowman wrote:
On 11/05/2015 11:00 AM, Harry K wrote: I wonder what the regs are on Log Splitters. multiplying Pi R squared by the rated pump output comes up considerably less than the claimed tonnage on the one I have checked. And that is without deducting the area of the piston rod. The rod end doesn't matter unless there is some back pressure in the return line. Then you'd need to deduct that pressure acting on the annulus. I don't know anything about log splitters other than those that resemble an ax but I wonder if it's some sort of marketing concept like 'tons per square inch exerted by the face of the wedge'. The rod end does matter. Given a 5" piston with a 1 1/2" rod you loose the pressure on the area covered by the rod. Harry K |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
On Thursday, November 5, 2015 at 7:30:12 PM UTC-8, rbowman wrote:
On 11/05/2015 11:00 AM, Harry K wrote: I wonder what the regs are on Log Splitters. multiplying Pi R squared by the rated pump output comes up considerably less than the claimed tonnage on the one I have checked. And that is without deducting the area of the piston rod. The rod end doesn't matter unless there is some back pressure in the return line. Then you'd need to deduct that pressure acting on the annulus. I don't know anything about log splitters other than those that resemble an ax but I wonder if it's some sort of marketing concept like 'tons per square inch exerted by the face of the wedge'. Ooops, Head up in a dark, dark place. I got the cylinder backwards and yes, the rod end does not matter. |
"Industry-standard" measurements and advertising
On Mon, 2 Nov 2015 23:43:18 -0500, "Percival P. Cassidy"
wrote: I have a 16-ft. "every-which-way" ladder that I've had for maybe 20 years, so when I saw what was described as a "22'" multifunction ladder (Keller KMT-22) advertised at a considerable discount, I thought it might be worth upgrading. BUT when I looked at the detailed specs. it turns out that it's really only 18-ft 3-in. long: the claimed "22'" is the height one can reach when standing on the highest permitted rung; this, I am told, is the "industry-standard" method of labeling ladders. I guess that if we didn't have decent regulations, we'd have 3-qt. "gallons" of milk and gasoline, and 40-ft. reels of electrical wire labeled as "50-ft." I didn't buy the ladder. Perce So my 6 foot step ladder is now called a 10 foot ladder???? |
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