Are there special kits and procedures when the wires for a switch have broken
too often at the tips? I fixe dtwo switched two years ago like that and
although the need isn't urgent, I could seeit arising in a few months.



- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]

On 9/4/2015 4:32 PM, wrote:
Are there special kits and procedures when the wires for a switch have broken
too often at the tips? I fixe dtwo switched two years ago like that and
although the need isn't urgent, I could seeit arising in a few months.

Why are the wires breaking? There should be no mechanical stresses transfered
to the wires from the user's operation of the switch.

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Sep 2015 17:03:39 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 9/4/2015 4:32 PM, wrote:
Are there special kits and procedures when the wires for a switch have broken
too often at the tips? I fixe dtwo switched two years ago like that and
although the need isn't urgent, I could seeit arising in a few months.

Why are the wires breaking? There should be no mechanical stresses transfered
to the wires from the user's operation of the switch.

Good question. Is someone bending them back and forth until they break.
How old is the house? I've never had one break.

--

Stumpy Strumpet
the bimbus
for dogcatcher

On Fri, 04 Sep 2015 20:30:19 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Sep 2015 17:03:39 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 9/4/2015 4:32 PM, wrote:
Are there special kits and procedures when the wires for a switch have broken
too often at the tips? I fixe dtwo switched two years ago like that and
although the need isn't urgent, I could seeit arising in a few months.

Why are the wires breaking? There should be no mechanical stresses transfered
to the wires from the user's operation of the switch.

Good question. Is someone bending them back and forth until they break.
How old is the house? I've never had one break.

I've got aluminum wire in one house. Very few have broken but some
have been squished by 40 years of pressure of the push in connections
on the switches and receptacles that they no longer have enough
pressure to maintain solid contact. I often pigtail a copper wire to
them to avoid a repeat.

On Fri, 4 Sep 2015 23:32:05 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

Are there special kits and procedures when the wires for a switch have broken
too often at the tips? I fixe dtwo switched two years ago like that and
although the need isn't urgent, I could seeit arising in a few months

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/s...pade%20Lug.jpg

I am not exactly sure I understand your question, but if I understand
correctly the wire broke off near the terminal screw at a switch.

If that is true, the weakness could be caused by someone using
strippers incorrectly. If they used the wrong size hole in wire
stripers this can cause a weakness.

On 09/04/2015 08:11 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Fri, 04 Sep 2015 20:30:19 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Sep 2015 17:03:39 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 9/4/2015 4:32 PM, wrote:
Are there special kits and procedures when the wires for a switch have broken
too often at the tips? I fixe dtwo switched two years ago like that and
although the need isn't urgent, I could seeit arising in a few months.

Why are the wires breaking? There should be no mechanical stresses transfered
to the wires from the user's operation of the switch.

Good question. Is someone bending them back and forth until they break.
How old is the house? I've never had one break.

I've got aluminum wire in one house. Very few have broken but some
have been squished by 40 years of pressure of the push in connections
on the switches and receptacles that they no longer have enough
pressure to maintain solid contact. I often pigtail a copper wire to
them to avoid a repeat.




Unless you use a connector or paste, specifically designed to connect
copper to aluminum you have a fire risk.
If copper is connected directly to aluminum there will be galvanic
corrosion which can arc.


I would totally get rid of the aluminum wire even though it's obviously
going to be a big job.

On Fri, 4 Sep 2015 23:32:05 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

Are there special kits and procedures when the wires for a switch have broken
too often at the tips? I fixe dtwo switched two years ago like that and
although the need isn't urgent, I could seeit arising in a few months.

Use a good brand of butt connector for the size wire you have. Be sure
the crimper you use is the right type for the connector.
--
Mr.E

On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 10:41:12 PM UTC-4, Seymore4Head wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2015 23:32:05 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

Are there special kits and procedures when the wires for a switch have broken
too often at the tips? I fixe dtwo switched two years ago like that and
although the need isn't urgent, I could seeit arising in a few months

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/s...pade%20Lug.jpg

I am not exactly sure I understand your question, but if I understand
correctly the wire broke off near the terminal screw at a switch.

If that is true, the weakness could be caused by someone using
strippers incorrectly. If they used the wrong size hole in wire
stripers this can cause a weakness.

And if that's the problem, then you can just strip more of
the insulation off the end. If the wire is too short to
have enough to properly reach the switch, then add another
6" piece and use a wire nut to secure it to the existing wire.

On Sat, 5 Sep 2015 05:52:09 -0500, philo wrote:

On 09/04/2015 08:11 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Fri, 04 Sep 2015 20:30:19 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Sep 2015 17:03:39 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 9/4/2015 4:32 PM, wrote:
Are there special kits and procedures when the wires for a switch have broken
too often at the tips? I fixe dtwo switched two years ago like that and
although the need isn't urgent, I could seeit arising in a few months.

Why are the wires breaking? There should be no mechanical stresses transfered
to the wires from the user's operation of the switch.

Good question. Is someone bending them back and forth until they break.
How old is the house? I've never had one break.

I've got aluminum wire in one house. Very few have broken but some
have been squished by 40 years of pressure of the push in connections
on the switches and receptacles that they no longer have enough
pressure to maintain solid contact. I often pigtail a copper wire to
them to avoid a repeat.




Unless you use a connector or paste, specifically designed to connect
copper to aluminum you have a fire risk.
If copper is connected directly to aluminum there will be galvanic
corrosion which can arc.


I would totally get rid of the aluminum wire even though it's obviously
going to be a big job.
Although pigtailing copper to aluminum without the proper connector
or paste is not a good idea, it is far less dangerous than using
aluminum wire in "backstab" receptacles. That practice has NEVER been
approved, and is one of the worst things you can do with aluminum
wiring, safety and reliability-wise.

On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 07:16:13 -0400, Mr.E wrote:

On Fri, 4 Sep 2015 23:32:05 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

Are there special kits and procedures when the wires for a switch have broken
too often at the tips? I fixe dtwo switched two years ago like that and
although the need isn't urgent, I could seeit arising in a few months.

Use a good brand of butt connector for the size wire you have. Be sure
the crimper you use is the right type for the connector.
There is only one "butt" connector approved for joining solid copper
to solid aluminum wiring and it requires a special tool that can only
be rented or leased from the manufacturer by operators trained and
certified in it's use. Can't remember the name at the moment.

Ah-yes. It's Copalum

The"ideal" wire-nut designed for joining copper and aluminum is also
falling out of favor as the failure rate of connections using the
product is higher than anticipated - and higher than acceptable. The
only good and simple way to use aluminum wiring is with devices
specifically designed for use with aluminum wiring and designated as
CO-ALR devices. Installed according to the included directions,
particularly on second generation Al wire, they are as safe and
reliable as using copper wire.

If you need to connect aluminum to copper the new Alumiconn connectors
also work very well but they take up a lot of box space and are not
cheap.

I have replaced all devices in my home with CO-ALR devices (about 5 or
6 times the price of standard "big box" copper only devices - and in
the process found NO connections that showed ANY sign of overheating
or poor connections (other than a few outlets that had obviously lost
the tension in the place receptors, causing poor connection between
plug and outlet - which is not wiring related)

My house was wired in 1974 with the "second generation" aluminum wire.
(aa8800) by a master electrician I knew very well, without the help of
an apprentice.. I bought the house when it was 8 years old and there
have been no modifications/additions made since I bought it - and the
basement was professionally wired with copper by the first owner.

On 09/05/2015 08:23 AM, wrote:

snip

I would totally get rid of the aluminum wire even though it's obviously
going to be a big job.
Although pigtailing copper to aluminum without the proper connector
or paste is not a good idea, it is far less dangerous than using
aluminum wire in "backstab" receptacles. That practice has NEVER been
approved, and is one of the worst things you can do with aluminum
wiring, safety and reliability-wise.




Agreed

and for that matter I don't use the "backstab" at all...

I take the few extra seconds it takes to use the screw connection and
make sure it's tight.

wrote in message ...

Are there special kits and procedures when the wires for a switch have
broken
too often at the tips? I fixe dtwo switched two years ago like that and
although the need isn't urgent, I could seeit arising in a few months.


Stay in school, kids.
LOL

philo wrote:
On 09/04/2015 08:11 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Fri, 04 Sep 2015 20:30:19 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Sep 2015 17:03:39 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 9/4/2015 4:32 PM, wrote:
Are there special kits and procedures when the wires for a switch
have broken
too often at the tips? I fixe dtwo switched two years ago like that
and
although the need isn't urgent, I could seeit arising in a few months.

Why are the wires breaking? There should be no mechanical stresses
transfered
to the wires from the user's operation of the switch.

Good question. Is someone bending them back and forth until they break.
How old is the house? I've never had one break.

I've got aluminum wire in one house. Very few have broken but some
have been squished by 40 years of pressure of the push in connections

Wow! push in connection with Al. wire? At least it better be Al.
specific parts.

on the switches and receptacles that they no longer have enough
pressure to maintain solid contact. I often pigtail a copper wire to
them to avoid a repeat.




Unless you use a connector or paste, specifically designed to connect
copper to aluminum you have a fire risk.
If copper is connected directly to aluminum there will be galvanic
corrosion which can arc.


I would totally get rid of the aluminum wire even though it's obviously
going to be a big job.

micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Sep 2015 17:03:39 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 9/4/2015 4:32 PM, wrote:
Are there special kits and procedures when the wires for a switch have broken
too often at the tips? I fixe dtwo switched two years ago like that and
although the need isn't urgent, I could seeit arising in a few months.

Why are the wires breaking? There should be no mechanical stresses transfered
to the wires from the user's operation of the switch.

Good question. Is someone bending them back and forth until they break.
How old is the house? I've never had one break.

Maybe nicks in the wire when stripper is used improperly.

On Sat, 5 Sep 2015 05:52:09 -0500, philo wrote:

On 09/04/2015 08:11 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Fri, 04 Sep 2015 20:30:19 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Sep 2015 17:03:39 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 9/4/2015 4:32 PM, wrote:
Are there special kits and procedures when the wires for a switch have broken
too often at the tips? I fixe dtwo switched two years ago like that and
although the need isn't urgent, I could seeit arising in a few months.

Why are the wires breaking? There should be no mechanical stresses transfered
to the wires from the user's operation of the switch.

Good question. Is someone bending them back and forth until they break.
How old is the house? I've never had one break.

I've got aluminum wire in one house. Very few have broken but some
have been squished by 40 years of pressure of the push in connections
on the switches and receptacles that they no longer have enough
pressure to maintain solid contact. I often pigtail a copper wire to
them to avoid a repeat.




Unless you use a connector or paste, specifically designed to connect
copper to aluminum you have a fire risk.
If copper is connected directly to aluminum there will be galvanic
corrosion which can arc.


I would totally get rid of the aluminum wire even though it's obviously
going to be a big job.

I agree with you that what you say is what's always said and may well
be true in the overall sense. However, I didn't know about it years
ago when these squish terminals started causing these problems. The
squish area would get loose enough that arcing would occur there and
the receptacle would "Fry". So I fixed them as I mentioned. Some of
those technically incorrect repairs are now 20 + years old, as old as
the system was when the first squish problems popped up. Yet none of
those repaired and pigtailed receptacles has ever had a recurrence of
the problem, they have all been fine for their 20+ years. Also, I
have occasionally had to pull these and replace them if, for example,
the receptacle was painted over too many times, or the plastic cracked
from a tenant twisting a plug, etc. On a couple of them I have looked
to see if there is any evidence of galvanic corrosion where I've
pigtailed copper to aluminum and there has not been any evidence of
it. In the 40+ years I've owned the place the only problem that's
ever come up from the aluminum wires is that they squish, both under
the spring push in gizmos as well as under screws (I have to retighten
all the fuse panel screws that hold the wires on to the neutral buss
and the breakers about every 15 years. And for the places where the
aluminum was twisted around a screw, if that gets redone more then
once the brittleness of the AL often results in it breaking and I'll
have to strip back the wire to get a fresh start... which is why I
also went to pig tailing those so I wouldn't run out of wire.

I'm not disagreeing at all with what "good practice" would be, just
saying that the corrosion issue and need for special connectors and
anti-corrosion pastes, which I never used, has not shown up as a
problem in these many many years. Perhaps it's due to AZ's very low
humidity. Last time I worked on the wires to add some GFI's I was
going to use the special connectors and paste but couldn't find any at
the usual retail outlets so just did it the same as in the past.

If anyone is still reading and is "in the biz", have you ever worked
with aluminum and actually seen problems from not using the special
connectors and anti-corrosion paste?

On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 09:23:58 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 5 Sep 2015 05:52:09 -0500, philo wrote:

On 09/04/2015 08:11 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Fri, 04 Sep 2015 20:30:19 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Sep 2015 17:03:39 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 9/4/2015 4:32 PM, wrote:
Are there special kits and procedures when the wires for a switch have broken
too often at the tips? I fixe dtwo switched two years ago like that and
although the need isn't urgent, I could seeit arising in a few months.

Why are the wires breaking? There should be no mechanical stresses transfered
to the wires from the user's operation of the switch.

Good question. Is someone bending them back and forth until they break.
How old is the house? I've never had one break.

I've got aluminum wire in one house. Very few have broken but some
have been squished by 40 years of pressure of the push in connections
on the switches and receptacles that they no longer have enough
pressure to maintain solid contact. I often pigtail a copper wire to
them to avoid a repeat.




Unless you use a connector or paste, specifically designed to connect
copper to aluminum you have a fire risk.
If copper is connected directly to aluminum there will be galvanic
corrosion which can arc.


I would totally get rid of the aluminum wire even though it's obviously
going to be a big job.
Although pigtailing copper to aluminum without the proper connector
or paste is not a good idea, it is far less dangerous than using
aluminum wire in "backstab" receptacles. That practice has NEVER been
approved, and is one of the worst things you can do with aluminum
wiring, safety and reliability-wise.

It must have been "ok", that is, not prohibited by code, back in 1971
in AZ since they built many subdivisions by some of the largest
homebuilders that way for about 5 years until the problems started
showing up.

On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 09:53:06 -0400, wrote:

On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 07:16:13 -0400, Mr.E wrote:

On Fri, 4 Sep 2015 23:32:05 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

Are there special kits and procedures when the wires for a switch have broken
too often at the tips? I fixe dtwo switched two years ago like that and
although the need isn't urgent, I could seeit arising in a few months.

Use a good brand of butt connector for the size wire you have. Be sure
the crimper you use is the right type for the connector.
There is only one "butt" connector approved for joining solid copper
to solid aluminum wiring and it requires a special tool that can only
be rented or leased from the manufacturer by operators trained and
certified in it's use. Can't remember the name at the moment.

Ah-yes. It's Copalum

The"ideal" wire-nut designed for joining copper and aluminum is also
falling out of favor as the failure rate of connections using the
product is higher than anticipated - and higher than acceptable. The
only good and simple way to use aluminum wiring is with devices
specifically designed for use with aluminum wiring and designated as
CO-ALR devices. Installed according to the included directions,
particularly on second generation Al wire, they are as safe and
reliable as using copper wire.

If you need to connect aluminum to copper the new Alumiconn connectors
also work very well but they take up a lot of box space and are not
cheap.

I have replaced all devices in my home with CO-ALR devices (about 5 or
6 times the price of standard "big box" copper only devices - and in
the process found NO connections that showed ANY sign of overheating
or poor connections (other than a few outlets that had obviously lost
the tension in the place receptors, causing poor connection between
plug and outlet - which is not wiring related)

My house was wired in 1974 with the "second generation" aluminum wire.
(aa8800) by a master electrician I knew very well, without the help of
an apprentice.. I bought the house when it was 8 years old and there
have been no modifications/additions made since I bought it - and the
basement was professionally wired with copper by the first owner.

What's different about the CO-ALR devices? I'm assuming you mean
switch's and receptacles.

On Sat, 5 Sep 2015 10:25:02 -0500, philo wrote:

On 09/05/2015 08:23 AM, wrote:

snip

I would totally get rid of the aluminum wire even though it's obviously
going to be a big job.
Although pigtailing copper to aluminum without the proper connector
or paste is not a good idea, it is far less dangerous than using
aluminum wire in "backstab" receptacles. That practice has NEVER been
approved, and is one of the worst things you can do with aluminum
wiring, safety and reliability-wise.




Agreed

and for that matter I don't use the "backstab" at all...

I take the few extra seconds it takes to use the screw connection and
make sure it's tight.

The new "back feed" devices are pretty good. They don't use a
springtab - they use a screw but do not require bending the wire to
fit around the screw, and the co-alr devices have a set pressure due
to usre of a bellview type spring washer.

On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 10:38:40 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote:

philo wrote:
On 09/04/2015 08:11 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Fri, 04 Sep 2015 20:30:19 -0400, micky
wrote:

In alt.home.repair, on Fri, 04 Sep 2015 17:03:39 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 9/4/2015 4:32 PM, wrote:
Are there special kits and procedures when the wires for a switch
have broken
too often at the tips? I fixe dtwo switched two years ago like that
and
although the need isn't urgent, I could seeit arising in a few months.

Why are the wires breaking? There should be no mechanical stresses
transfered
to the wires from the user's operation of the switch.

Good question. Is someone bending them back and forth until they break.
How old is the house? I've never had one break.

I've got aluminum wire in one house. Very few have broken but some
have been squished by 40 years of pressure of the push in connections

Wow! push in connection with Al. wire? At least it better be Al.
specific parts.


No such part exists.

on the switches and receptacles that they no longer have enough
pressure to maintain solid contact. I often pigtail a copper wire to
them to avoid a repeat.




Unless you use a connector or paste, specifically designed to connect
copper to aluminum you have a fire risk.
If copper is connected directly to aluminum there will be galvanic
corrosion which can arc.


I would totally get rid of the aluminum wire even though it's obviously
going to be a big job.

posted for all of us...



On Sat, 05 Sep 2015 07:16:13 -0400, Mr.E wrote:

On Fri, 4 Sep 2015 23:32:05 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

Are there special kits and procedures when the wires for a switch have broken
too often at the tips? I fixe dtwo switched two years ago like that and
although the need isn't urgent, I could seeit arising in a few months.

Use a good brand of butt connector for the size wire you have. Be sure
the crimper you use is the right type for the connector.
There is only one "butt" connector approved for joining solid copper
to solid aluminum wiring and it requires a special tool that can only
be rented or leased from the manufacturer by operators trained and
certified in it's use. Can't remember the name at the moment.

Ah-yes. It's Copalum

The"ideal" wire-nut designed for joining copper and aluminum is also
falling out of favor as the failure rate of connections using the
product is higher than anticipated - and higher than acceptable. The
only good and simple way to use aluminum wiring is with devices
specifically designed for use with aluminum wiring and designated as
CO-ALR devices. Installed according to the included directions,
particularly on second generation Al wire, they are as safe and
reliable as using copper wire.

If you need to connect aluminum to copper the new Alumiconn connectors
also work very well but they take up a lot of box space and are not
cheap.

I have replaced all devices in my home with CO-ALR devices (about 5 or
6 times the price of standard "big box" copper only devices - and in
the process found NO connections that showed ANY sign of overheating
or poor connections (other than a few outlets that had obviously lost
the tension in the place receptors, causing poor connection between
plug and outlet - which is not wiring related)

My house was wired in 1974 with the "second generation" aluminum wire.
(aa8800) by a master electrician I knew very well, without the help of
an apprentice.. I bought the house when it was 8 years old and there
have been no modifications/additions made since I bought it - and the
basement was professionally wired with copper by the first owner.

+1

--
Tekkie

On 9/5/2015 4:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 5 Sep 2015 10:25:02 -0500, philo wrote:

The new "back feed" devices are pretty good. They don't use a
springtab - they use a screw but do not require bending the wire to
fit around the screw, and the co-alr devices have a set pressure due
to usre of a bellview type spring washer.


Some I've seen, I call em back clamp. Which
is fine with me.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 09/05/2015 03:02 PM, wrote:



Agreed

and for that matter I don't use the "backstab" at all...

I take the few extra seconds it takes to use the screw connection and
make sure it's tight.

The new "back feed" devices are pretty good. They don't use a
springtab - they use a screw but do not require bending the wire to
fit around the screw, and the co-alr devices have a set pressure due
to usre of a bellview type spring washer.




Sounds like a great idea, now that I think of it I have seen a few of those.

On 09/05/2015 01:01 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:




snip
I'm not disagreeing at all with what "good practice" would be, just
saying that the corrosion issue and need for special connectors and
anti-corrosion pastes, which I never used, has not shown up as a
problem in these many many years. Perhaps it's due to AZ's very low
humidity. Last time I worked on the wires to add some GFI's I was
going to use the special connectors and paste but couldn't find any at
the usual retail outlets so just did it the same as in the past.

If anyone is still reading and is "in the biz", have you ever worked
with aluminum and actually seen problems from not using the special
connectors and anti-corrosion paste?




The low humidity may have helped.


My only experience was with a high-powered transformer when one of the
terminals burned off. I cut back into good aluminum and crimped a copped
lug onto it.

It eventually burned off...however even if I used an approved lug my
guess is that it would have burned off too...so that's not much to go on

On Sun, 6 Sep 2015 10:35:19 -0500, philo wrote:

On 09/05/2015 01:01 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:




snip
I'm not disagreeing at all with what "good practice" would be, just
saying that the corrosion issue and need for special connectors and
anti-corrosion pastes, which I never used, has not shown up as a
problem in these many many years. Perhaps it's due to AZ's very low
humidity. Last time I worked on the wires to add some GFI's I was
going to use the special connectors and paste but couldn't find any at
the usual retail outlets so just did it the same as in the past.

If anyone is still reading and is "in the biz", have you ever worked
with aluminum and actually seen problems from not using the special
connectors and anti-corrosion paste?




The low humidity may have helped.


My only experience was with a high-powered transformer when one of the
terminals burned off. I cut back into good aluminum and crimped a copped
lug onto it.

It eventually burned off...however even if I used an approved lug my
guess is that it would have burned off too...so that's not much to go on
High humidity here in the "interlaken" region of Southern Ontario
hasn.t seemed to cause any problems.

Many thanks. DIdn't realise there wasn an al-cu issue, tho we have only
1965 copper. (In 1980, I dropped electrochem to take stat thermo instead!)

Basically it is the two places I have replaced switches most often. One in th
ebathroom, I put a series of timers and humidity detectors. THe timer is
acting up but is ok if I don't set it to max. (BTW after trying a series of
humidity detectors, th eone from Broan works great - 55% winter 75% summer
for bath fan). THe othe ris my study where i have replaced over five dimmers
in the past twenty years.

THe last time, a few years go, the tips of the wire broke off.

I imagine I can just extend the wire the traditional way, splice another
piece of wire, but I'm afraid it is too "fragile". I could solder it and tape
it. Of course the "code" rule would be to run the wire new from the fuse box.
(I co-own the hosue with two uncles who are electrical engineers and they can
be very obsessive.)


I have come across some boxes in the house where it seems the builder
extended the wire because it was too short?


- = -
Vasos Panagiotopoulos, Columbia'81+, Reagan, Mozart, Pindus, BioStrategist
http://www.panix.com/~vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Phooey on GUI: Windows for subprime Bimbos]

On Saturday, September 5, 2015 at 4:29:53 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 9/5/2015 4:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 5 Sep 2015 10:25:02 -0500, philo wrote:

The new "back feed" devices are pretty good. They don't use a
springtab - they use a screw but do not require bending the wire to
fit around the screw, and the co-alr devices have a set pressure due
to usre of a bellview type spring washer.


Some I've seen, I call em back clamp. Which
is fine with me.
-
.


Are you referring to the type where you must tighten the screw after sticking the stripped end of the wire through the hole in the back of the wiring device?
If it's what I'm thinking, it's a commercial grade device that I've used with stranded wire. You can also side wire them. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Wire Monster

On Sun, 6 Sep 2015 17:38:37 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, September 5, 2015 at 4:29:53 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 9/5/2015 4:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 5 Sep 2015 10:25:02 -0500, philo wrote:

The new "back feed" devices are pretty good. They don't use a
springtab - they use a screw but do not require bending the wire to
fit around the screw, and the co-alr devices have a set pressure due
to usre of a bellview type spring washer.


Some I've seen, I call em back clamp. Which
is fine with me.
-
.


Are you referring to the type where you must tighten the screw after sticking the stripped end of the wire through the hole in the back of the wiring device?
If it's what I'm thinking, it's a commercial grade device that I've used with stranded wire. You can also side wire them. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Wire Monster
That's the animal. great for a DIY install because it is pretty hard
to screw up the installation.

On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 11:08:25 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sun, 6 Sep 2015 17:38:37 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Saturday, September 5, 2015 at 4:29:53 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 9/5/2015 4:02 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 5 Sep 2015 10:25:02 -0500, philo wrote:

The new "back feed" devices are pretty good. They don't use a
springtab - they use a screw but do not require bending the wire to
fit around the screw, and the co-alr devices have a set pressure due
to usre of a bellview type spring washer.


Some I've seen, I call em back clamp. Which
is fine with me.
-

Are you referring to the type where you must tighten the screw after sticking the stripped end of the wire through the hole in the back of the wiring device?
If it's what I'm thinking, it's a commercial grade device that I've used with stranded wire. You can also side wire them. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Wire Monster
That's the animal. great for a DIY install because it is pretty hard
to screw up the installation.

I'd always spend extra money on wiring devices instead of purchasing the $0..59 receptacles. I'd go with at least commercial grade then up to hospital grade depending on the application. If you're wondering what a hospital grade outlet is, it's one designed so that the power cord of a floor polisher can be yanked out of the outlet sideways so the outlet isn't damaged. The outlets are usually made out of nylon and can be whacked with a hammer without sustaining damage. I'd install them around my shop and workbench, especially if I'd be plugging and unplugging power cords frequently. I'd also spring for the unbreakable, flexible nylon faceplates. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Wiring Monster

On 9/6/2015 8:38 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Saturday, September 5, 2015 at 4:29:53 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Some I've seen, I call em back clamp. Which
is fine with me.
-
.


Are you referring to the type where you must tighten the screw after sticking the stripped end of the wire through the hole in the back of the wiring device?
If it's what I'm thinking, it's a commercial grade device that I've used with stranded wire. You can also side wire them. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Wire Monster


Agree, it has two square pieces of metal which
come together when you tighten the screw. I can
imagine you can loop the wire around the screw
and tighten, though with more work. For us old
traditionalists.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 9/7/2015 6:27 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:

I'd always spend extra money on wiring devices instead of purchasing the $0.59 receptacles. I'd go with at least commercial grade then up to hospital grade depending on the application. If you're wondering what a hospital grade outlet is, it's one designed so that the power cord of a floor polisher can be yanked out of the outlet sideways so the outlet isn't damaged. The outlets are usually made out of nylon and can be whacked with a hammer without sustaining damage. I'd install them around my shop and workbench, especially if I'd be plugging and unplugging power cords frequently. I'd also spring for the unbreakable, flexible nylon faceplates. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Wiring Monster


Of course, the usage cycle and type of use is
a factor. For hall sockets at church, need a
better grade of socket. Frequent vacuum cleaner
plug, remove, yank, and people who can't figure
out they are at the end of the cord.

For my kitchen socket (toaster unplugged couple
times a year to shake the dried wheat out of the
toaster) a 59 center is fine for me.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Monday, September 7, 2015 at 5:36:19 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 9/7/2015 6:27 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:

I'd always spend extra money on wiring devices instead of purchasing the $0.59 receptacles. I'd go with at least commercial grade then up to hospital grade depending on the application. If you're wondering what a hospital grade outlet is, it's one designed so that the power cord of a floor polisher can be yanked out of the outlet sideways so the outlet isn't damaged. The outlets are usually made out of nylon and can be whacked with a hammer without sustaining damage. I'd install them around my shop and workbench, especially if I'd be plugging and unplugging power cords frequently. I'd also spring for the unbreakable, flexible nylon faceplates. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Wiring Monster


Of course, the usage cycle and type of use is
a factor. For hall sockets at church, need a
better grade of socket. Frequent vacuum cleaner
plug, remove, yank, and people who can't figure
out they are at the end of the cord.

For my kitchen socket (toaster unplugged couple
times a year to shake the dried wheat out of the
toaster) a 59 center is fine for me.
-


In a kitchen, I'd always install a commercial grade because they'll keep a better connection under load and last longer. The internal contacts are tighter and will grip a plug better. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Grip Monster

On 9/7/2015 7:22 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Monday, September 7, 2015 at 5:36:19 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
For my kitchen socket (toaster unplugged couple
times a year to shake the dried wheat out of the
toaster) a 59 center is fine for me.
-


In a kitchen, I'd always install a commercial grade because they'll keep a better connection under load and last longer. The internal contacts are tighter and will grip a plug better. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Grip Monster


I guess you and I can't agree on that. No worries,
I'm okay until it catches fire....

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Friday, September 4, 2015 at 10:41:12 PM UTC-4, Seymore4Head wrote:
On Fri, 4 Sep 2015 23:32:05 +0000 (UTC),
wrote:

Are there special kits and procedures when the wires for a switch have broken
too often at the tips? I fixe dtwo switched two years ago like that and
although the need isn't urgent, I could seeit arising in a few months

http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/s...pade%20Lug.jpg

Are lugs of that type allowed by code to be used inside a switch or receptacle box?


I am not exactly sure I understand your question, but if I understand
correctly the wire broke off near the terminal screw at a switch.

If that is true, the weakness could be caused by someone using
strippers incorrectly. If they used the wrong size hole in wire
stripers this can cause a weakness.

I am not exactly sure I understand your question, but if I understand
correctly the wire broke off near the terminal screw at a switch.

If that is true, the weakness could be caused by someone using
strippers incorrectly. If they used the wrong size hole in wire
stripers this can cause a weakness.

i have a 100% solution for broken wires where the box is too small and the wires too short. install new wiring and abandon the original box, thats what blank covers are for

sometimes its just easier.

On Mon, 7 Sep 2015 06:33:08 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 9/6/2015 8:38 PM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Saturday, September 5, 2015 at 4:29:53 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Some I've seen, I call em back clamp. Which
is fine with me.
-
.


Are you referring to the type where you must tighten the screw after sticking the stripped end of the wire through the hole in the back of the wiring device?
If it's what I'm thinking, it's a commercial grade device that I've used with stranded wire. You can also side wire them. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Wire Monster


Agree, it has two square pieces of metal which
come together when you tighten the screw. I can
imagine you can loop the wire around the screw
and tighten, though with more work. For us old
traditionalists.

-
.
On the "side terminal" you can, but not in the back feed (or side
clamp)- On some it is a small round hole, just like the old
spring-tab type, that only allows a 1/2" long sstraight strippec
condictor to be inserted, and the the screw is tightened to hold it
firmly.

On others you use the same side screw and either use the bent wire
between the plate and the screw, or the straigt wire beweeen the plate
and the terminal body.. I sure prefer the side clamp type backwire
installation - both to install and to remove later.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.

On Mon, 7 Sep 2015 06:36:16 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

On 9/7/2015 6:27 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:

I'd always spend extra money on wiring devices instead of purchasing the $0.59 receptacles. I'd go with at least commercial grade then up to hospital grade depending on the application. If you're wondering what a hospital grade outlet is, it's one designed so that the power cord of a floor polisher can be yanked out of the outlet sideways so the outlet isn't damaged. The outlets are usually made out of nylon and can be whacked with a hammer without sustaining damage. I'd install them around my shop and workbench, especially if I'd be plugging and unplugging power cords frequently. I'd also spring for the unbreakable, flexible nylon faceplates. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Wiring Monster


Of course, the usage cycle and type of use is
a factor. For hall sockets at church, need a
better grade of socket. Frequent vacuum cleaner
plug, remove, yank, and people who can't figure
out they are at the end of the cord.

For my kitchen socket (toaster unplugged couple
times a year to shake the dried wheat out of the
toaster) a 59 center is fine for me.

-
.
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
. www.lds.org
.
.
How many watts is the toaster? Countertop kitchen outlets are one
place I WANT the high quality devices because they often get
high-wattage loads, like coffeemakers, electric frypans, toasters, and
heavy duty mixers etc. Then again, some peoples kitchens get used as
kitchens - and others just as snack-bars.

On 9/7/2015 12:17 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 7 Sep 2015 06:36:16 -0400, Stormin Mormon
wrote:

For my kitchen socket (toaster unplugged couple
times a year to shake the dried wheat out of the
toaster) a 59 center is fine for me.


How many watts is the toaster? Countertop kitchen outlets are one
place I WANT the high quality devices because they often get
high-wattage loads, like coffeemakers, electric frypans, toasters, and
heavy duty mixers etc. Then again, some peoples kitchens get used as
kitchens - and others just as snack-bars.


I'd have to go look. Probably 750, just a SWAG.
If the socket got frequent plug and remove, I'd
go with better quality.

-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Monday, September 7, 2015 at 6:53:52 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 9/7/2015 7:22 AM, Uncle Monster wrote:
On Monday, September 7, 2015 at 5:36:19 AM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
For my kitchen socket (toaster unplugged couple
times a year to shake the dried wheat out of the
toaster) a 59 center is fine for me.
-


In a kitchen, I'd always install a commercial grade because they'll keep a better connection under load and last longer. The internal contacts are tighter and will grip a plug better. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Grip Monster


I guess you and I can't agree on that. No worries,
I'm okay until it catches fire....
-
.

The tighter the connection the lower the contact resistance and the less chance that the contacts will heat up and increase the resistance causing more heat then become hotter and hotter until it finally burns up. I doubt the house will burn down if the outlet in in an approved metal or plastic box. Besides, if you burn up, I can't argue with you anymore. o_O

[8~{} Uncle Outlet Monster

I'd always spend extra money on wiring devices instead of purchasing
the $0.59 receptacles. I'd go with at least commercial grade then up
to hospital grade depending on the application.

I installed commercial grade receptacles in our kitchen when we built our
house. Like you, I figured they would be a better choice for outlets that
would have things plugged and unplugged frequently.

However, after a couple months of living in the house, I replaced them with
the cheap 59 cent versions. The insertion and withdrawal pressure needed
with the commercial receptacles was just too excessive. It was very
difficult to plug anything in, and it seemed like the plug would be damaged
trying to unplug the device. Either that or we would end up getting shocked
wrestling with the plug.

The cheap receptacles are easier to insert plugs into. If they start to
wear out, it's easy to replace the outlet with another cheap socket.
Replacing a broken appliance cord is often a lot more work and expense.

The one situation I can see the commercial sockets working better is for
outlets where appliances are always plugged in, like a microwave or
something.

For what it's worth, we've lived in our house 11 years now and the cheap
sockets still work like the day I installed them.

Just my experience...

Anthony Watson
www.watsondiy.com
www.mountainsoftware.com

On Monday, September 7, 2015 at 11:31:00 PM UTC-5, HerHusband wrote:
I'd always spend extra money on wiring devices instead of purchasing
the $0.59 receptacles. I'd go with at least commercial grade then up
to hospital grade depending on the application.

I installed commercial grade receptacles in our kitchen when we built our
house. Like you, I figured they would be a better choice for outlets that
would have things plugged and unplugged frequently.

However, after a couple months of living in the house, I replaced them with
the cheap 59 cent versions. The insertion and withdrawal pressure needed
with the commercial receptacles was just too excessive. It was very
difficult to plug anything in, and it seemed like the plug would be damaged
trying to unplug the device. Either that or we would end up getting shocked
wrestling with the plug.

The cheap receptacles are easier to insert plugs into. If they start to
wear out, it's easy to replace the outlet with another cheap socket.
Replacing a broken appliance cord is often a lot more work and expense.

The one situation I can see the commercial sockets working better is for
outlets where appliances are always plugged in, like a microwave or
something.

For what it's worth, we've lived in our house 11 years now and the cheap
sockets still work like the day I installed them.

Just my experience...

Anthony Watson


I don't know what brand commercial outlets you were using but I've never had one that required excessive force to insert or remove. Even the tighter hospital grade outlets have never seemed to take excessive force to me but that's just me. Me and my brother completely wired a beauty shop with the high end commercial grade outlets because of the loads from all the hair dryers. The handheld dryers were plugged in and removed often at the operator stations and none of the outlets ever failed. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Plug Monster