connecting wall valve to ballcock
 

I have a toilet whose main valve I replaced with a Shark, but I haven't
been able to get the metal tube from the Shark to the ball cock to fit.
Always too long, but can't get compression ring off to shorten it.

What do you all think of the Brasscraft flexible connector covered with
polymer braid? Will it hold up as well as metal? (Is the tube
chrome plated copper?) The ratings are high, but those ratings are
made between a day and a year after installation.

If Brasscraft is good, what about length? I bought 16", the only
length they had. They also sell 12" (free shipping to store). The
actual distance is 7". Using 16 means bending it around in a
complete circle. In a way that seems like it would put less strain on
the ends than using 12" which would have to bend fairly sharply at each
end, yes??? I figure if it fails it will fail at the end where the
plastic tube connects to the metal end, right?

I see now they also sell 9" and 20". 20" will be under the least
bending stress.

9" will be the most, won't it?

Finally, appearance. I've avoided using flexible because I have the
feeling it will look like a public bathroom, where they use flexible
because speed of installation is more important than looking ritzy. I
don't want my bathroom to look like a public bathroom, Even though you
can't actually see this tube without kneeling on the bathroom floor!
Maybe I should buy another metal tube and start all over again??

connecting wall valve to ballcock
 

On Saturday, August 29, 2015 at 5:46:55 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
I have a toilet whose main valve I replaced with a Shark, but I haven't
been able to get the metal tube from the Shark to the ball cock to fit.
Always too long, but can't get compression ring off to shorten it.

What do you all think of the Brasscraft flexible connector covered with
polymer braid? Will it hold up as well as metal? (Is the tube
chrome plated copper?) The ratings are high, but those ratings are
made between a day and a year after installation.

If Brasscraft is good, what about length? I bought 16", the only
length they had. They also sell 12" (free shipping to store). The
actual distance is 7". Using 16 means bending it around in a
complete circle. In a way that seems like it would put less strain on
the ends than using 12" which would have to bend fairly sharply at each
end, yes??? I figure if it fails it will fail at the end where the
plastic tube connects to the metal end, right?

I see now they also sell 9" and 20". 20" will be under the least
bending stress.

Use the 16", put a loop in it...I've used flex plastic at home and a 46 toilet facility (nursing home) without failures.

connecting wall valve to ballcock
 

On Saturday, August 29, 2015 at 6:46:55 AM UTC-4, micky wrote:
I have a toilet whose main valve I replaced with a Shark, but I haven't
been able to get the metal tube from the Shark to the ball cock to fit.
Always too long, but can't get compression ring off to shorten it.

What do you all think of the Brasscraft flexible connector covered with
polymer braid? Will it hold up as well as metal? (Is the tube
chrome plated copper?) The ratings are high, but those ratings are
made between a day and a year after installation.

If Brasscraft is good, what about length? I bought 16", the only
length they had. They also sell 12" (free shipping to store). The
actual distance is 7". Using 16 means bending it around in a
complete circle. In a way that seems like it would put less strain on
the ends than using 12" which would have to bend fairly sharply at each
end, yes??? I figure if it fails it will fail at the end where the
plastic tube connects to the metal end, right?

I see now they also sell 9" and 20". 20" will be under the least
bending stress.

9" will be the most, won't it?

Finally, appearance. I've avoided using flexible because I have the
feeling it will look like a public bathroom, where they use flexible
because speed of installation is more important than looking ritzy. I
don't want my bathroom to look like a public bathroom, Even though you
can't actually see this tube without kneeling on the bathroom floor!
Maybe I should buy another metal tube and start all over again??

i used to be negative lie you on the flexible lines. but they work great, last seemingly forever. and honestly how much does appearance really matter?

try one and you will never go back.........

connecting wall valve to ballcock
 

On 08/29/2015 04:46 AM, micky wrote:
Maybe I should buy another metal tube and start all over again??

IMO, plumbing is not the place to save money so don't buy plumbing materials from McLowesDepotBigBoxExpressMart type stores.
Do the job right, buy a new metal supply tube at your local plumbing store.

my ballcock
 

"bob_villa" wrote in message
...

On Saturday, August 29, 2015 at 5:46:55 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
I have a toilet whose main valve I replaced with a Shark, but I haven't
been able to get the metal tube from the Shark to the ball cock to fit.
Always too long, but can't get compression ring off to shorten it.

What do you all think of the Brasscraft flexible connector covered with
polymer braid? Will it hold up as well as metal? (Is the tube
chrome plated copper?) The ratings are high, but those ratings are
made between a day and a year after installation.

If Brasscraft is good, what about length? I bought 16", the only
length they had. They also sell 12" (free shipping to store). The
actual distance is 7". Using 16 means bending it around in a
complete circle. In a way that seems like it would put less strain on
the ends than using 12" which would have to bend fairly sharply at each
end, yes??? I figure if it fails it will fail at the end where the
plastic tube connects to the metal end, right?

I see now they also sell 9" and 20". 20" will be under the least
bending stress.

Use the 16", put a loop in it...


Bob, I've done that before, to entertain my Pleasance. Sometimes I even
loop it around my waist a coupla times, just for fun.
Discuss.......................

connecting wall valve to ballcock
 

On 8/29/2015 3:46 AM, micky wrote:
I have a toilet whose main valve I replaced with a Shark, but I haven't
been able to get the metal tube from the Shark to the ball cock to fit.
Always too long, but can't get compression ring off to shorten it.

What do you all think of the Brasscraft flexible connector covered with
polymer braid? Will it hold up as well as metal? (Is the tube
chrome plated copper?) The ratings are high, but those ratings are
made between a day and a year after installation.

If Brasscraft is good, what about length? I bought 16", the only
length they had. They also sell 12" (free shipping to store). The
actual distance is 7". Using 16 means bending it around in a
complete circle. In a way that seems like it would put less strain on
the ends than using 12" which would have to bend fairly sharply at each
end, yes??? I figure if it fails it will fail at the end where the
plastic tube connects to the metal end, right?

I see now they also sell 9" and 20". 20" will be under the least
bending stress.

9" will be the most, won't it?

Finally, appearance. I've avoided using flexible because I have the
feeling it will look like a public bathroom, where they use flexible
because speed of installation is more important than looking ritzy. I
don't want my bathroom to look like a public bathroom, Even though you
can't actually see this tube without kneeling on the bathroom floor!
Maybe I should buy another metal tube and start all over again??

I've had two bad experience with braid covered tubing.

The first was the line to the toilet failing in the middle of
the night, resulting to a flooded bathroom floor (luckily, the
sound of the running water woke me quickly so I could catch
the problem before it resulted in any damage). In this
case, it was NOT the tubing that failed but, rather, the plastic
"cap" that mates the tube to the bottom of the tank; it snapped
resulting in that end of the tube being "exposed".

The other failure was a braided "heavy duty" hose supplying
water to the washing machine. It *ruptured* within hours of
being installed -- in the first or second load of laundry.

connecting wall valve to ballcock
 

On Saturday, August 29, 2015 at 11:26:07 AM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
In this
case, it was NOT the tubing that failed but, rather, the plastic
"cap" that mates the tube to the bottom of the tank; it snapped
resulting in that end of the tube being "exposed".

This happens when you over-tighten the plastic...which is meant to be hand-tightened.

connecting wall valve to ballcock
 

On 8/29/2015 10:06 AM, bob_villa wrote:
On Saturday, August 29, 2015 at 11:26:07 AM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
In this
case, it was NOT the tubing that failed but, rather, the plastic
"cap" that mates the tube to the bottom of the tank; it snapped
resulting in that end of the tube being "exposed".

This happens when you over-tighten the plastic...which is meant to be hand-tightened.

It *was* "hand tightened" -- and had been in place for more than
10 years!

The problem with "hand tighten" is that it is highly subjective.
What *I* consider "hand tight" and what SWMBO considers are
very different! Also, what you consider hand tight at 20 is
very different than at 40.

connecting wall valve to ballcock
 

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 29 Aug 2015 09:26:10 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 8/29/2015 3:46 AM, micky wrote:
I have a toilet whose main valve I replaced with a Shark, but I haven't
been able to get the metal tube from the Shark to the ball cock to fit.
Always too long, but can't get compression ring off to shorten it.

What do you all think of the Brasscraft flexible connector covered with
polymer braid? Will it hold up as well as metal? (Is the tube
chrome plated copper?) The ratings are high, but those ratings are
made between a day and a year after installation.

If Brasscraft is good, what about length? I bought 16", the only
length they had. They also sell 12" (free shipping to store). The
actual distance is 7". Using 16 means bending it around in a
complete circle. In a way that seems like it would put less strain on
the ends than using 12" which would have to bend fairly sharply at each
end, yes??? I figure if it fails it will fail at the end where the
plastic tube connects to the metal end, right?

I see now they also sell 9" and 20". 20" will be under the least
bending stress.

9" will be the most, won't it?

Finally, appearance. I've avoided using flexible because I have the
feeling it will look like a public bathroom, where they use flexible
because speed of installation is more important than looking ritzy. I
don't want my bathroom to look like a public bathroom, Even though you
can't actually see this tube without kneeling on the bathroom floor!
Maybe I should buy another metal tube and start all over again??

I've had two bad experience with braid covered tubing.

The first was the line to the toilet failing in the middle of
the night, resulting to a flooded bathroom floor (luckily, the
sound of the running water woke me quickly so I could catch
the problem before it resulted in any damage). In this
case, it was NOT the tubing that failed but, rather, the plastic
"cap" that mates the tube to the bottom of the tank; it snapped
resulting in that end of the tube being "exposed".

That's pretty scary. I'm going to give it another try with solid metal.
Thanks.

They sell metal at Home Depot. NYM.

Although for the record, I had one of them fail somehow -- I sort of
forget. The first-floor powder room. I had replaced the ball-cock
once, using the original meal line, which was only 10 years old, but
that was 5 years earlier. I went out for about 2 hours and when I came
home water was everywhere. I'm lucky I didn't go away for a week.

I didn't stop to look at the leak before I ran to the basement to turn
the water off, and I can't remember what failed. But I should have been
able to tell afterwards. I'm still using the same wall valve, so that
wasn't it. It must have been the metal tube.

The water caused much of the vinyl tile in the powder room and in the
adjjoinging hall to loosen, and with the other problems, I wasn't in the
mood to fix it, so I just put the one or two pieces that had moved back
in place, and I put a rug over everything so stepping wouldn't push them
sideways, and when it all dried up, the tiles were stuck to the floor
again. I coudlnt' believe it.

The water went through the floor and mostly ruined the boxes on the
basement floor. I've learned from other floods for other reasons that
boxes of the right size can be hard to replace, so i just leave them
where they are and it doesn't take too long for them to dry out, though
they're not very strong anymore. (Which is another reason I leave them
where they are.)

Only once did I get mold and that was when I let the water heater leak
for weeks, because I thought it was an immediately prior leak that
wasn't drying up like it should have. In the case of that mold, I
sprayed it with bleach, 100%, and iirc painted it with paint that had a
little bottle of anti-mold added. (It's behind a workbench so I'm not
positive I repainted it.

I don't know what makes this basement so dry. There is a sump that
always has about 15" of water in it. In those days I didn't even keep
the plastic lid on it, but the lid has holes to let the sump pump pipe
go through.

The other failure was a braided "heavy duty" hose supplying

Braided with stainless steel? That's scary too.

water to the washing machine. It *ruptured* within hours of
being installed -- in the first or second load of laundry.

The braid is supposed to prevent that.

I had non-braided rupture, and I heard the noise when I woke up in the
morning. I don't know how long it was going. I replaced it with
stainless steel. I've had about 6 or 8 other floods, all for different
reasons. I don't think there are any new reasons left.

connecting wall valve to ballcock
 

In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 29 Aug 2015 11:55:12 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 8/29/2015 10:06 AM, bob_villa wrote:
On Saturday, August 29, 2015 at 11:26:07 AM UTC-5, Don Y wrote:
In this
case, it was NOT the tubing that failed but, rather, the plastic
"cap" that mates the tube to the bottom of the tank; it snapped
resulting in that end of the tube being "exposed".

This happens when you over-tighten the plastic...which is meant to be hand-tightened.

It *was* "hand tightened" -- and had been in place for more than
10 years!

The problem with "hand tighten" is that it is highly subjective.
What *I* consider "hand tight" and what SWMBO considers are
very different! Also, what you consider hand tight at 20 is
very different than at 40.

In terms of tightening, online it says wrt the metal end to hand tighten
and then 1 to 1 1/2 more turns with a wrench**. That might be
reproducible. But wrt the plastic end, it doesn't say anything.

**And why do you have to go online to read instructions. Admittedly the
label is not big, but another half inch would make it big enough to say
" hand tighten and then 1 to 1 1/2 more turns with a wrench"

connecting wall valve to ballcock
 

On 8/30/2015 4:15 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 29 Aug 2015 09:26:10 -0700, Don Y

The other failure was a braided "heavy duty" hose supplying

Braided with stainless steel? That's scary too.

water to the washing machine. It *ruptured* within hours of
being installed -- in the first or second load of laundry.

The braid is supposed to prevent that.

I had non-braided rupture, and I heard the noise when I woke up in the
morning. I don't know how long it was going. I replaced it with
stainless steel. I've had about 6 or 8 other floods, all for different
reasons. I don't think there are any new reasons left.

We had just purchased the washer/dryer so replaced the hoses at the same time.
On one of the first few washes, I noticed that the washing mashine
"sounded different" (from what I had only recently learned to "expect").

When I walked into the laundry room, there was a high pressure stream of
water coming from one of the hoses, *digging* a hole in the drywall
behind the washer!

It *could* have just been "sloppy quality control" at the factory.
I don't really care the reason -- I've got a hole gouged in my wall
and water pooling on the floor!

Keep in mind, we had deliberately chosen the "Heavy Duty" (whatever
THAT means) version of these hoses!

connecting wall valve to ballcock
 

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 30 Aug 2015 08:08:11 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 8/30/2015 4:15 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sat, 29 Aug 2015 09:26:10 -0700, Don Y

The other failure was a braided "heavy duty" hose supplying

Braided with stainless steel? That's scary too.

water to the washing machine. It *ruptured* within hours of
being installed -- in the first or second load of laundry.

The braid is supposed to prevent that.

I had non-braided rupture, and I heard the noise when I woke up in the
morning. I don't know how long it was going. I replaced it with
stainless steel. I've had about 6 or 8 other floods, all for different
reasons. I don't think there are any new reasons left.

We had just purchased the washer/dryer so replaced the hoses at the same time.
On one of the first few washes, I noticed that the washing mashine
"sounded different" (from what I had only recently learned to "expect").

When I walked into the laundry room, there was a high pressure stream of
water coming from one of the hoses, *digging* a hole in the drywall
behind the washer!

I think heavy duty refers to the stream spraying from the hose.

It *could* have just been "sloppy quality control" at the factory.
I don't really care the reason -- I've got a hole gouged in my wall
and water pooling on the floor!

Keep in mind, we had deliberately chosen the "Heavy Duty" (whatever
THAT means) version of these hoses!

connecting wall valve to ballcock
 

micky wrote:
The other failure was a braided "heavy duty" hose supplying

Braided with stainless steel? That's scary too.

water to the washing machine. It *ruptured* within hours of
being installed -- in the first or second load of laundry.

The braid is supposed to prevent that.

I had non-braided rupture, and I heard the noise when I woke up in the
morning. I don't know how long it was going. I replaced it with
stainless steel. I've had about 6 or 8 other floods, all for
different reasons. I don't think there are any new reasons left.

I've used those "braided stainless" flex hoses sold for water heaters a couple
times. 3 out of the 4 hoses sprung leaks within a few years. The braided
stainless is all for show, because the interior of the hose is made of junk that
quickly springs leaks.

connecting wall valve to ballcock
 

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 30 Aug 2015 08:46:33 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

micky wrote:
The other failure was a braided "heavy duty" hose supplying

Braided with stainless steel? That's scary too.

water to the washing machine. It *ruptured* within hours of
being installed -- in the first or second load of laundry.

The braid is supposed to prevent that.

I had non-braided rupture, and I heard the noise when I woke up in the
morning. I don't know how long it was going. I replaced it with
stainless steel. I've had about 6 or 8 other floods, all for
different reasons. I don't think there are any new reasons left.

I've used those "braided stainless" flex hoses sold for water heaters a couple
times. 3 out of the 4 hoses sprung leaks within a few years. The braided
stainless is all for show, because the interior of the hose is made of junk that
quickly springs leaks.

Dang. And I know you're not an idiot. Maybe water heater hoses are
hot all the time and don't last as long as washing machine hoses?


P.S. I thought about flexible, so I'm glad I made a point to use
copper for my water heater.

connecting wall valve to ballcock
 

On 8/30/2015 10:18 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 30 Aug 2015 08:46:33 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

I've used those "braided stainless" flex hoses sold for water heaters a couple
times. 3 out of the 4 hoses sprung leaks within a few years. The braided
stainless is all for show, because the interior of the hose is made of junk that
quickly springs leaks.

Dang. And I know you're not an idiot. Maybe water heater hoses are
hot all the time and don't last as long as washing machine hoses?

P.S. I thought about flexible, so I'm glad I made a point to use
copper for my water heater.

Use the "corrugated" (? no idea what they are called... have lots of
little "ribs" in them to let them flex) "pipes". Put the shutoffs
upstream from these (as well as upstream from any expansion tank
you've installed).

connecting wall valve to ballcock
 

In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 30 Aug 2015 11:14:28 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 8/30/2015 10:18 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 30 Aug 2015 08:46:33 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

I've used those "braided stainless" flex hoses sold for water heaters a couple
times. 3 out of the 4 hoses sprung leaks within a few years. The braided
stainless is all for show, because the interior of the hose is made of junk that
quickly springs leaks.

Dang. And I know you're not an idiot. Maybe water heater hoses are
hot all the time and don't last as long as washing machine hoses?

P.S. I thought about flexible, so I'm glad I made a point to use
copper for my water heater.

Use the "corrugated" (? no idea what they are called... have lots of

You're right. It was the corrugated I was considering. I dont' think
they made braided for water heaters a few years ago or at least I didn't
know about it.

So youre saying the corrugated won't burst like the braided stainless
flex hoses for water heaters did for Bob F?

little "ribs" in them to let them flex) "pipes". Put the shutoffs
upstream from these (as well as upstream from any expansion tank
you've installed).

connecting wall valve to ballcock
 

On 8/30/2015 4:43 PM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 30 Aug 2015 11:14:28 -0700, Don Y
wrote:

On 8/30/2015 10:18 AM, micky wrote:
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 30 Aug 2015 08:46:33 -0700, "Bob F"
wrote:

I've used those "braided stainless" flex hoses sold for water heaters a couple
times. 3 out of the 4 hoses sprung leaks within a few years. The braided
stainless is all for show, because the interior of the hose is made of junk that
quickly springs leaks.

Dang. And I know you're not an idiot. Maybe water heater hoses are
hot all the time and don't last as long as washing machine hoses?

P.S. I thought about flexible, so I'm glad I made a point to use
copper for my water heater.

Use the "corrugated" (? no idea what they are called... have lots of

You're right. It was the corrugated I was considering. I dont' think
they made braided for water heaters a few years ago or at least I didn't
know about it.

They *do* make braided hoses for water heaters.

So youre saying the corrugated won't burst like the braided stainless
flex hoses for water heaters did for Bob F?

Everything has a point beyond which it will fail. The braided hoses
are a marriage of at least three "components":
- the braid that provides structural support for the pressure in the hose
- the tubing that provides water tightness
- the metal endcaps

These all have to be mated together.

The "corrugated" pipe is a formed piece of copper with flared end over
which the endcap fits. There's no "seam" where two materials have
to be married together (tubing with endcap, endcap with braid).

connecting wall valve to ballcock
 

over the years i have had all types of lines leak.

including the hard metal type that must be bent.

i think the flexible lines are better, since they allow some flex, the hard lines will break over time