What, chemically, is that whiteish crumbly powder on bad batteries?

We all have seen it, and most of the time you can just brush it off, but
I have it on a device deep inside that I can't get a brush on without
breaking stuff.

I'd like to use a solvent (I already tried water but I want to do a
better job) that dissolves the stuff so knowing the chemistry might help.

Do you have any idea what the chemical composition of that stuff is?

On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 19:42:16 +0000, MNMikeW wrote:



Do you have any idea what the chemical composition of that stuff is?

It's a mixture of potassium hydroxide and potassium carbonate.

Check this article.

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HT...stion/1000207/

Thane

On 08/13/2015 12:42 PM, MNMikeW wrote:
What, chemically, is that whiteish crumbly powder on bad batteries?

We all have seen it, and most of the time you can just brush it off, but
I have it on a device deep inside that I can't get a brush on without
breaking stuff.

I'd like to use a solvent (I already tried water but I want to do a
better job) that dissolves the stuff so knowing the chemistry might help.

Do you have any idea what the chemical composition of that stuff is?


Potassium Hydroxide - an alkaline (Alkaline batteries after all). Wash
off with a mild solution (50/50) of white vinegar and water, scrub, and
rinse with clean water carefully.

http://flippers.com/battery.html

John :-#)#

--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

On 8/13/2015 3:42 PM, MNMikeW wrote:
What, chemically, is that whiteish crumbly powder on bad batteries?

We all have seen it, and most of the time you can just brush it off, but
I have it on a device deep inside that I can't get a brush on without
breaking stuff.

I'd like to use a solvent (I already tried water but I want to do a
better job) that dissolves the stuff so knowing the chemistry might help.

Do you have any idea what the chemical composition of that stuff is?


What kind of device that won't let you
get near it?

Caig DeOxit might help. I got some for
a 1/8 phono jack, and surprise surprise!
Seems to help a lot. Might help with
battery corrosion, also.

Ebay for about $15 shipped. Well worth it,
in my case.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 8/13/2015 5:50 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:


Caig DeOxit might help. I got some for
a 1/8 phono jack, and surprise surprise!
Seems to help a lot. Might help with
battery corrosion, also.


Caig DeOxit is the electronic technicians holy water.

On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 14:52:36 -0500, Thane wrote:

It's a mixture of potassium hydroxide and potassium carbonate.

Check this article.

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HT...stion/1000207/

That was an interesting article, which also said that it could be a
mixture of ammonium chloride and manganese dioxide in the comments.

It seems that lemon juice or vinnegar (ie weak acids) are the way to
clean it up chemically, based on that article.

On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 12:52:50 -0700, John Robertson wrote:

Potassium Hydroxide - an alkaline (Alkaline batteries after all). Wash
off with a mild solution (50/50) of white vinegar and water, scrub, and
rinse with clean water carefully.

http://flippers.com/battery.html

That article was nice, but I'm always suspicious when someone suggests
idiotic things such as "pure water" (goes with "kosher salt" in my book,
or with "organic eggs", etc.).

On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 17:50:27 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Caig DeOxit might help.

The MSDS is one of the most generic I have ever seen.
http://www.xerox.com/downloads/usa/en/i/i5008.pdf

No telling what it's made of.

On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 19:54:43 -0400, Rachael Madcow wrote:

Caig DeOxit is the electronic technicians holy water.

The MSDS didn't say what it's made of.
Any idea?

On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 17:50:27 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:

What kind of device that won't let you get near it?

The AA battery was in a deep slot where you can't get a finger or brush
easily in there to clean the alkali, but you can get a liquid (such as
vinegar in there).

On 08/13/2015 9:35 PM, MNMikeW wrote:
On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 12:52:50 -0700, John Robertson wrote:

Potassium Hydroxide - an alkaline (Alkaline batteries after all). Wash
off with a mild solution (50/50) of white vinegar and water, scrub, and
rinse with clean water carefully.

http://flippers.com/battery.html

That article was nice, but I'm always suspicious when someone suggests
idiotic things such as "pure water" (goes with "kosher salt" in my book,
or with "organic eggs", etc.).


Oh, fine, then de-ionized distilled water if you want to get picky ;-).

It rarely makes much difference, at least for those of us who have rain
water as our supply (mountain runoff). If you have well water then the
alkalies in it could exacerbate the problem...

Consider that you have thin copper traces on your PCBs and they are made
by etching a coating of copper film with an alkaline solution to
generate the traces needed...you thus want to neutralize any alkaline
remaining (so no more etching occurs) and a mild acid is pretty good at
that. CLR works in a pinch...

John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

On 08/13/2015 9:40 PM, MNMikeW wrote:
On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 17:50:27 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:

What kind of device that won't let you get near it?

The AA battery was in a deep slot where you can't get a finger or brush
easily in there to clean the alkali, but you can get a liquid (such as
vinegar in there).


You want to let it soak in for a while, and using a wooden skewer or
similar to dislodge any caked material is good...

Then rinse well with water (pure/distilled if possible, rain water is
not bad, well water may not be good).

John :-#)#
--
(Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9
(604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
www.flippers.com
"Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

On 08/13/2015 09:35 PM, MNMikeW wrote:
On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 12:52:50 -0700, John Robertson wrote:

Potassium Hydroxide - an alkaline (Alkaline batteries after all). Wash
off with a mild solution (50/50) of white vinegar and water, scrub, and
rinse with clean water carefully.

http://flippers.com/battery.html

That article was nice, but I'm always suspicious when someone suggests
idiotic things such as "pure water" (goes with "kosher salt" in my book,
or with "organic eggs", etc.).


Yah, organic eggs, ROFLMAO!

Chickens fed GMO food (marinated in glyphosate) and tons of antibiotics are much better for your gut microbiome and autoimmune system.
You'll be fine, just take your pharmaceuticals.

On 8/14/2015 12:38 AM, MNMikeW wrote:
On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 17:50:27 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Caig DeOxit might help.

The MSDS is one of the most generic I have ever seen.
http://www.xerox.com/downloads/usa/en/i/i5008.pdf

No telling what it's made of.

It's a mild organic acid dissolved in naptha, or something close to that.

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

Phil Hobbs wrote:

It's a mild organic acid dissolved in naptha, or something close to
that.

I don't think I have ever heard of an "organic acid".
Any examples of mild organic acids you know of?

On 8/14/2015 8:05 AM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
Phil Hobbs wrote:

It's a mild organic acid dissolved in naptha, or something close to
that.

I don't think I have ever heard of an "organic acid".
Any examples of mild organic acids you know of?


Citric, or ascorbic.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

"MNMikeW" wrote in message ...

What, chemically, is that whiteish crumbly powder on bad batteries?

We all have seen it, and most of the time you can just brush it off, but
I have it on a device deep inside that I can't get a brush on without
breaking stuff.

I'd like to use a solvent (I already tried water but I want to do a
better job) that dissolves the stuff so knowing the chemistry might help.

Do you have any idea what the chemical composition of that stuff is?


I believe it is faerie cum.

On Thursday, August 13, 2015 at 5:50:21 PM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Caig DeOxit might help. I got some for
a 1/8 phono jack, and surprise surprise!
Seems to help a lot. Might help with
battery corrosion, also.


I assume based on your battery experiences, you buy this by the gallon.
??

On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 04:31:50 +0000, MNMikeW wrote:


That was an interesting article, which also said that it could be a
mixture of ammonium chloride and manganese dioxide in the comments.

It seems that lemon juice or vinnegar (ie weak acids) are the way to
clean it up chemically, based on that article.

I've used a Qtip dipped in tap water to remove the most of these
deposits. Vinegar should be used cautiously as acids may attack the
metals used in the battery contacts in the device you're trying to clean
up.

Thane

| That article was nice, but I'm always suspicious when someone suggests
| idiotic things such as "pure water" (goes with "kosher salt" in my book,
| or with "organic eggs", etc.).

That's quite a lot to lump into one category.
Are you sure your salt doesn't have "yellow
prussiate of soda"? (cyanide salt) Do you
really think it makes no difference what
livestock eat? Where would you draw that line?
If you don't care about such things then what
is food?

There's a difference between being a ninny and
being attentive. But I would agree about "pure
water". That sounds like the menu item made
from "Baby Yukon Gold tubers, fresh dairy milk,
genuine Himalayan ghee and a trace of finest
Italian parsley" -- mashed potatoes.

John Robertson wrote:

You want to let it soak in for a while, and using a wooden skewer or
similar to dislodge any caked material is good...

Would urine work?

On Friday, August 14, 2015 at 9:32:19 AM UTC-5, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
John Robertson wrote:

You want to let it soak in for a while, and using a wooden skewer or
similar to dislodge any caked material is good...

Would urine work?

Awwww **** on it! á•™(‡€€¸†¼€¶)á•—

[8~{} Uncle Pee Monster

On 8/14/2015 9:36 AM, Thomas wrote:
On Thursday, August 13, 2015 at 5:50:21 PM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Caig DeOxit might help. I got some for
a 1/8 phono jack, and surprise surprise!
Seems to help a lot. Might help with
battery corrosion, also.


I assume based on your battery experiences, you buy this by the gallon.
??


Oddly enough, only used it once.

Today I decided to check on a FRS handi talkie,
the Energizers that expire in March 2016 had
leaked. Some hot water, and old tooth brush,
and the contacts cleaned up okay. I shook out
the excess water, and will try the HT tomorrow
when it's good and dry.


-
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 8/14/2015 10:02 AM, Thane wrote:
I've used a Qtip dipped in tap water to remove the most of these
deposits. Vinegar should be used cautiously as acids may attack the
metals used in the battery contacts in the device you're trying to clean
up.

Thane


Vinegar is a mild acid, not much danger to
metals. Rinse after, to remove the dissolved
ionic solids.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 04:32:56 -0400, Phil Hobbs
wrote:

On 8/14/2015 12:38 AM, MNMikeW wrote:
On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 17:50:27 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Caig DeOxit might help.

The MSDS is one of the most generic I have ever seen.
http://www.xerox.com/downloads/usa/en/i/i5008.pdf
No telling what it's made of.

It's a mild organic acid dissolved in naptha, or something close to that.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs

Before DioxIT, it was Cramolin. Both concoctions had an assortment of
formulations and a checkered history. Both have also been cloned at
various times. The acid involved is oleic acid, which is food safe
and is used in a variety of cosmetic potions and nostrums:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleic_acid
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=oleic+acid
However, there were some problems. If it wasn't wiped off, it would
slowly attack copper and brass contacts. This was deemed a bad thing
and the oleic acid was removed from the formulations leaving only
mineral oil and no weak acid. Cramolin MSDS:
http://store.caig.com/core/media/media.nl?id=808&c=ACCT113328&h=3f8d8512c835e9a69f6 4&whence=
The MSDS for Caig DeoxIT is listed as a trade secret concoction but is
generally presumed to be the same as Cramolin. If this is correct,
then using DeoxIT to "clean" battery contacts just coats the contacts
with a layer of mineral oil.

Caig has a large selection of cleaners and lubes, many of which
contain some manner of unspecified oxide remover available. That
would be quite suitable if we were removing an oxide. Assuming an
alkaline battery, the white residue is mostly potassium carbonate
(K2CO3) and some potassium hydroxide (KOH) electrolyte. Just about
any acidic cleaner will remove that. I use 409 household cleaner and
smear it around with an acid brush. You can tell it's working by the
foam and bubbles produced. When the white crud has been removed, just
wipe it clean. Both chemicals are soluble in water, so you don't
really need an acid, but I like to see the foam and bubbles. After
that, smearing the contacts and PCB with mineral oil (DeoxIT) does
nothing useful becaue the contacts don't need a lube job.

The history of Cramolin, DeoxIT, ProGold, etc.
http://www.siber-sonic.com/electronics/caig.html

The topic appears quite often in the antique radio forums:
http://www.antiqueradios.com/forums/search.php
Plug "DeOxit" into the search box.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 14:32:12 +0000 (UTC), Steven Bornfeld
wrote:

John Robertson wrote:

You want to let it soak in for a while, and using a wooden skewer or
similar to dislodge any caked material is good...

Would urine work?

Only in the morning:
http://www.chemcraft.net/acidph2.html
In a pH balanced body. urine is slightly acid in the morning,
(pH = 6.5 - 7.0) generally becoming more alkaline (pH = 7.5 - 8.0)
by evening in healthy people primarily because no food or beverages
are consumed while sleeping. Whereas, during the day the body
buffers the pH of the food and beverages consumed by releasing
electrolytes and the pH level goes up. This process allows the
kidneys to begin the elimination process slowly.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 22:15:35 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 14:32:12 +0000 (UTC), Steven Bornfeld
wrote:

John Robertson wrote:

You want to let it soak in for a while, and using a wooden skewer or
similar to dislodge any caked material is good...

Would urine work?

Only in the morning:
http://www.chemcraft.net/acidph2.html
In a pH balanced body. urine is slightly acid in the morning,
(pH = 6.5 - 7.0) generally becoming more alkaline (pH = 7.5 - 8.0)
by evening in healthy people primarily because no food or beverages
are consumed while sleeping. Whereas, during the day the body
buffers the pH of the food and beverages consumed by releasing
electrolytes and the pH level goes up. This process allows the
kidneys to begin the elimination process slowly.

Also, if you're a meat eater or cannibal:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine#pH
A diet which is high in protein from meat and dairy, as
well as alcohol consumption can reduce urine pH, whilst potassium
and organic acids such as from diets high in fruit and vegetables
can increase the pH and make it more alkaline.

So, if you're going to clean up your leaky battery residue with urine,
do it in the morning, after a steak breakfast.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 8/14/2015 8:05 AM, Steven Bornfeld wrote:
Phil Hobbs wrote:

It's a mild organic acid dissolved in naptha, or something close to
that.

I don't think I have ever heard of an "organic acid".
Any examples of mild organic acids you know of?


Stearic acid, oleic acid,....

Cheers

Phil Hobbs

--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs
Principal Consultant
ElectroOptical Innovations LLC
Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

160 North State Road #203
Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

hobbs at electrooptical dot net
http://electrooptical.net

In article ,
says...

Stearic acid, oleic acid,....

deoxyribonucleic acid... (Not sure about the "mild", though!)

Mike.

On Saturday, August 15, 2015 at 11:42:41 AM UTC-5, MJC wrote:
In article ,
says...

Stearic acid, oleic acid,....

deoxyribonucleic acid... (Not sure about the "mild", though!)

Mike.

I prefer ribonucleic acid, it's simpler. ( ͡ᵔ ͜ʖ ͡ᵔ )

[8~{} Uncle DNA Monster

On 8/14/2015 6:09 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Today I decided to check on a FRS handi talkie,
the Energizers that expire in March 2016 had
leaked. Some hot water, and old tooth brush,
and the contacts cleaned up okay. I shook out
the excess water, and will try the HT tomorrow
when it's good and dry.


Well, it's good and dry. I tried a couple batteries.
Lit up for an instant, and went dead again. Test
the batteries, one was dead. Other had some crud
on the terminal. Search around and find some good
clean batteries with charge. The HT works okay. I
gave it some Caig Deoxit on the terminals, just to
be sure.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

On 8/13/2015 3:42 PM, MNMikeW wrote:
What, chemically, is that whiteish crumbly powder on bad batteries?

We all have seen it, and most of the time you can just brush it off, but
I have it on a device deep inside that I can't get a brush on without
breaking stuff.

I'd like to use a solvent (I already tried water but I want to do a
better job) that dissolves the stuff so knowing the chemistry might help.

Do you have any idea what the chemical composition of that stuff is?


Yesterday I stopped to offer a jump start for a fellow.
Turns out that his positive battery calmp (automobile)
had corroded off, due to battery acid. In this case,
I'd say the problem was lead suplphate, and some copper
sulphate. Real shame. Sunday about 5 PJM, in a parking
lot at a shopping center. Myself and the security guy
both tried jumping, and no luck. Fortunately, he had a
cell phone. Hope he was able to get his adult son (talking
to him on phone) to bring out a new cable. I suspect a
new cable would have done the job.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..