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Default Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?

On Saturday, February 15, 2020 at 9:46:05 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 2/14/2020 9:57 PM, wrote:
...

Roundup is still just a defoliant more than a systemic herbicide. That
is why you can spray it on your dormant zoysia grass in the winter.


"Glyphosate is a broad-spectrum systemic herbicide and crop desiccant
which acts by inhibiting the plant enzyme
5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase. ... Once absorbed,
glyphosate moves quickly through the plant and accumulates in areas of
active growth called meristems. ..."

The only reason it doesn't kill zoysia dead is that it's dormant at the
time.

Similar issues with application at times is hot and dry and stuff isn't
actively growing.

Like most other herbicides, against well-established wood brush it will
undoubtedly take multiple applications or combinations to kill all the
roots so it won't re-establish.

--


You can probably also spray it on cool season grass in the cold of winter
and it won't kill the grass too, for the same reason, the chemical is not
readily absorbed and transported. I know when I decided to kill my lawn
and reseed, I got delayed and didn't apply the Roundup until Oct. Even
though the temps were still moderate, I wasn't counting on how long it
would take for it to kill it and for it go brown. I guess I probably could
have just proceeded to reseed and the old grass wouldhave died, but I
wasn't sure it would kill it. Instead of a week, it took maybe two and
a half weeks for it to go brown.

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Default Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?

On 2/15/2020 9:59 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
"Glyphosate is a broad-spectrum systemic herbicide and crop desiccant
which acts by inhibiting the plant enzyme
5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase. ... Once absorbed,
glyphosate moves quickly through the plant and accumulates in areas of
active growth called meristems. ..."

The only reason it doesn't kill zoysia dead is that it's dormant at the
time.

Similar issues with application at times is hot and dry and stuff isn't
actively growing.

Like most other herbicides, against well-established wood brush it will
undoubtedly take multiple applications or combinations to kill all the
roots so it won't re-establish.




I have not used Roundup for a while, but have used other brands that
have the same Glyphosate in them. They cost less for the same
concentration and have other chemicals in them. Mainly something to
help make it stick to the leaves. That is the only place on the plants
that the glyphosate is absorbed. Poision ivy is slick and most sprays
will just slide off. It usually gets rid of the poison ivy without any
trouble if sprayed on during the growing cycle.


Don't know why it should not work and I have killed poison ivy with all
purpose broad leaf killers. I cleared up all the English ivy around my
house a couple of years ago with glyphosate a couple of years ago. It
did take a couple of applications.
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Default Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?

In article ,
says...

You can probably also spray it on cool season grass in the cold of winter
and it won't kill the grass too, for the same reason, the chemical is not
readily absorbed and transported. I know when I decided to kill my lawn
and reseed, I got delayed and didn't apply the Roundup until Oct. Even
though the temps were still moderate, I wasn't counting on how long it
would take for it to kill it and for it go brown. I guess I probably could
have just proceeded to reseed and the old grass wouldhave died, but I
wasn't sure it would kill it. Instead of a week, it took maybe two and
a half weeks for it to go brown.




I am sure that you have to spray the plants during some cycle of their
growth depending on the chemical used.

Many people just buy something and put it out with out reading the
directions and complain that it does not work. Like the preemergence
weed and feed. It does no good after the seeds have sprouted and
started growing. The feed part really feeds the weeds..


For some reason in the area I am in (central NC) many yards have been
taken over by what many are calling chick weed. This has been a warm
winter and lots of rain. I don't think we have had a full week where it
has been below freezing which is unusual. Last week we were almost 70
deg F in the daytime. Seems like there has not been a full week with out
rain.



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Default Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?

On Saturday, February 15, 2020 at 9:59:54 AM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
"Glyphosate is a broad-spectrum systemic herbicide and crop desiccant
which acts by inhibiting the plant enzyme
5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase. ... Once absorbed,
glyphosate moves quickly through the plant and accumulates in areas of
active growth called meristems. ..."

The only reason it doesn't kill zoysia dead is that it's dormant at the
time.

Similar issues with application at times is hot and dry and stuff isn't
actively growing.

Like most other herbicides, against well-established wood brush it will
undoubtedly take multiple applications or combinations to kill all the
roots so it won't re-establish.




I have not used Roundup for a while, but have used other brands that
have the same Glyphosate in them. They cost less for the same
concentration and have other chemicals in them. Mainly something to
help make it stick to the leaves. That is the only place on the plants
that the glyphosate is absorbed. Poision ivy is slick and most sprays
will just slide off. It usually gets rid of the poison ivy without any
trouble if sprayed on during the growing cycle.


Same here. I have a 2.5 gal jug of 45% Razor, lasts many years.
I suppose the price of all that will be going up with the ambulance
chasing lawyers rounding up people to sue. So far they've just gone
after Monsanto, the big fish. Funny thing, in all the years of using
it around here, I rarely get any on me at all, let alone winding up
drenched in it like the janitor claims happened to him.





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Default Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?

On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 13:06:35 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Same here. I have a 2.5 gal jug of 45% Razor, lasts many years.
I suppose the price of all that will be going up with the ambulance
chasing lawyers rounding up people to sue. So far they've just gone
after Monsanto, the big fish. Funny thing, in all the years of using
it around here, I rarely get any on me at all, let alone winding up
drenched in it like the janitor claims happened to him.







Yea, the ambulance chasers ruin most everything that works.

Wife likes the Chanel # 5 powder. Seems they quit makiing that due to
the baby powder law suits. Can not get the cloridiene that wipes out
termites and most everything else.


Try Bifen. That is my new go to insecticide. You can get the
concentrate online. Just be careful, it is nasty stuff. (nitrile
gloves, respirator etc). It is the only thing that seems to push back
Florida ants and the palmetto bugs are history.
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Default Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?

On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 08:57:50 -0500, Hawk wrote:

On 2/15/2020 2:32 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 23:27:49 -0500, Hawk wrote:

On 2/14/2020 4:17 PM,
wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 11:50:42 -0800 (PST),

wrote:

Both are good brush killer and effect for your front yard. if you are interested to know more about the different check out the he
https://www.bestroachkiller.com/orth...er-vs-roundup/

Weeds like poison ivy laugh at roundup. It may knock the leaves off
but it will be back. You are far better off with a Triclopyr based
product, preferably mixed with a "sticker".
Diesel works great. You don't need a lot. A little spritz will kill
weeds like PI dead. It is what we use on Brazilian peppers, air potato
and Ear leaf Acacia.


Diesel? Fuel?


Yup. It was the original recommended surfactant for Garlon 4. This is
not something you are squirting out of an airplane. You just need to
get some leaves with a few drops each and the plant will go belly up
in a week or two and never come back. I typically treat an acre and a
half with a 16 oz Zep bottle and have plenty left.


Good to know. I've been using industrial Roundup which works well but
they always return awhile later. I end up just pulling the roots. I'll
do the diesel this summer.

Thanks

Just a few teaspoons full to a gallon of mix is all that is required.

Some have found sunlight dishwashing retergent works as well


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Default Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?

On 2/15/2020 4:49 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 08:57:50 -0500, Hawk wrote:

On 2/15/2020 2:32 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 23:27:49 -0500, Hawk wrote:

On 2/14/2020 4:17 PM,
wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 11:50:42 -0800 (PST),

wrote:

Both are good brush killer and effect for your front yard. if you are interested to know more about the different check out the he
https://www.bestroachkiller.com/orth...er-vs-roundup/

Weeds like poison ivy laugh at roundup. It may knock the leaves off
but it will be back. You are far better off with a Triclopyr based
product, preferably mixed with a "sticker".
Diesel works great. You don't need a lot. A little spritz will kill
weeds like PI dead. It is what we use on Brazilian peppers, air potato
and Ear leaf Acacia.


Diesel? Fuel?

Yup. It was the original recommended surfactant for Garlon 4. This is
not something you are squirting out of an airplane. You just need to
get some leaves with a few drops each and the plant will go belly up
in a week or two and never come back. I typically treat an acre and a
half with a 16 oz Zep bottle and have plenty left.


Good to know. I've been using industrial Roundup which works well but
they always return awhile later. I end up just pulling the roots. I'll
do the diesel this summer.

Thanks

Just a few teaspoons full to a gallon of mix is all that is required.

Some have found sunlight dishwashing retergent works as well


That's some powerful stuff. I would have used more or even applied 100%
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Default Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?

On Saturday, February 15, 2020 at 5:27:40 PM UTC-5, Hawk wrote:
On 2/15/2020 4:49 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 08:57:50 -0500, Hawk wrote:

On 2/15/2020 2:32 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 23:27:49 -0500, Hawk wrote:

On 2/14/2020 4:17 PM,
wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 11:50:42 -0800 (PST),

wrote:

Both are good brush killer and effect for your front yard. if you are interested to know more about the different check out the he
https://www.bestroachkiller.com/orth...er-vs-roundup/

Weeds like poison ivy laugh at roundup. It may knock the leaves off
but it will be back. You are far better off with a Triclopyr based
product, preferably mixed with a "sticker".
Diesel works great. You don't need a lot. A little spritz will kill
weeds like PI dead. It is what we use on Brazilian peppers, air potato
and Ear leaf Acacia.


Diesel? Fuel?

Yup. It was the original recommended surfactant for Garlon 4. This is
not something you are squirting out of an airplane. You just need to
get some leaves with a few drops each and the plant will go belly up
in a week or two and never come back. I typically treat an acre and a
half with a 16 oz Zep bottle and have plenty left.


Good to know. I've been using industrial Roundup which works well but
they always return awhile later. I end up just pulling the roots. I'll
do the diesel this summer.

Thanks

Just a few teaspoons full to a gallon of mix is all that is required.

Some have found sunlight dishwashing retergent works as well


That's some powerful stuff. I would have used more or even applied 100%


I've never fully understood the surfactant thing. If you read the directions
for the glyphosate products, they say to use a non-ionic surfactant.
But what is dishwashing liquid? From what I could gather, it was impossible
to tell, even for specific brands. What difference does non-ionic vs
non make? IDK. And you'd think in the typical 2.5 gal and smaller jugs
which individuals, small biz, etc would use they would just mix the
surfactant in. Razor does, I think RU does too. But there are lots of
other products that start talking about the damn surfactant instead of just
putting it in. I can understand not putting it in for large quantities,
like a farm would use, so they can use the one of their choice.

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Default Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?

In article ,
says...

I've never fully understood the surfactant thing. If you read the directions
for the glyphosate products, they say to use a non-ionic surfactant.
But what is dishwashing liquid? From what I could gather, it was impossible
to tell, even for specific brands. What difference does non-ionic vs
non make? IDK. And you'd think in the typical 2.5 gal and smaller jugs
which individuals, small biz, etc would use they would just mix the
surfactant in. Razor does, I think RU does too. But there are lots of
other products that start talking about the damn surfactant instead of just
putting it in. I can understand not putting it in for large quantities,
like a farm would use, so they can use the one of their choice.




I use a brand I get at Tractor Supply. Think it is Big and Tough. You
mix just under 3 oz per gallon. I usually just put in 3 oz. It says it
contains the surfactant and is 41 % gly. It came in about either a half
or full gallon container. Forgot which.

Works well on the poison ivy for me and most other things.
The just need to be sprayed during the normal growing season. The way I
understand it works is that it prevents the plants from absorbing
whatever it is that makes them grow so the starve to death.
Other types of chemicals over feed the plants and they burn their selves
up trying to grow, like too much fertilizer will do.

I am not sure if I killed a 30 foot pine tree with it or not. There was
a pine tree that looks like a big Christmas tree and I sprayed some
weeds and grass that was growing under it. Within about a year the
needles fell off and did not grow back so I cut it down.
I tried not to get any on the tree .
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Default Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?

On 2/15/2020 6:20 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

I've never fully understood the surfactant thing. If you read the directions
for the glyphosate products, they say to use a non-ionic surfactant.
But what is dishwashing liquid? From what I could gather, it was impossible
to tell, even for specific brands. What difference does non-ionic vs
non make? IDK. And you'd think in the typical 2.5 gal and smaller jugs
which individuals, small biz, etc would use they would just mix the
surfactant in. Razor does, I think RU does too. But there are lots of
other products that start talking about the damn surfactant instead of just
putting it in. I can understand not putting it in for large quantities,
like a farm would use, so they can use the one of their choice.




I use a brand I get at Tractor Supply. Think it is Big and Tough. You
mix just under 3 oz per gallon. I usually just put in 3 oz. It says it
contains the surfactant and is 41 % gly. It came in about either a half
or full gallon container. Forgot which.

Works well on the poison ivy for me and most other things.
The just need to be sprayed during the normal growing season. The way I
understand it works is that it prevents the plants from absorbing
whatever it is that makes them grow so the starve to death.
Other types of chemicals over feed the plants and they burn their selves
up trying to grow, like too much fertilizer will do.

I am not sure if I killed a 30 foot pine tree with it or not. There was
a pine tree that looks like a big Christmas tree and I sprayed some
weeds and grass that was growing under it. Within about a year the
needles fell off and did not grow back so I cut it down.
I tried not to get any on the tree .


i was worried about the same thing when I killed the English ivy around
my house with the evergreen foundation plantings. Did not faze any of
them and all the ivy died. I had kept it off the bushes.
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Default Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?

On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 15:45:46 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote:

In article ,
says...

Try Bifen. That is my new go to insecticide. You can get the
concentrate online. Just be careful, it is nasty stuff. (nitrile
gloves, respirator etc). It is the only thing that seems to push back
Florida ants and the palmetto bugs are history.



We have been getting a lot of fire ants in the area. I don't recall
what it is called, but I get it at the Tractor Supply store. It looks
sort of like saw dust. The ants carry it back to the queen and in a few
days they are all dead.

Works very well on the other ants too.


Baits work until the ants figure out not to eat it. You never kill
them all and they have discovered orphan ants might get adopted by
another colony, if they bring something valuable, like what not to
eat. Evolution is an amazing thing. Amdro used to be the "go to" thing
around here. Now you can pile it up in the yard and the ants won't
touch it.


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Default Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?

On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 14:39:07 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Saturday, February 15, 2020 at 5:27:40 PM UTC-5, Hawk wrote:
On 2/15/2020 4:49 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 08:57:50 -0500, Hawk wrote:

On 2/15/2020 2:32 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 23:27:49 -0500, Hawk wrote:

On 2/14/2020 4:17 PM,
wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 11:50:42 -0800 (PST),

wrote:

Both are good brush killer and effect for your front yard. if you are interested to know more about the different check out the he
https://www.bestroachkiller.com/orth...er-vs-roundup/

Weeds like poison ivy laugh at roundup. It may knock the leaves off
but it will be back. You are far better off with a Triclopyr based
product, preferably mixed with a "sticker".
Diesel works great. You don't need a lot. A little spritz will kill
weeds like PI dead. It is what we use on Brazilian peppers, air potato
and Ear leaf Acacia.


Diesel? Fuel?

Yup. It was the original recommended surfactant for Garlon 4. This is
not something you are squirting out of an airplane. You just need to
get some leaves with a few drops each and the plant will go belly up
in a week or two and never come back. I typically treat an acre and a
half with a 16 oz Zep bottle and have plenty left.


Good to know. I've been using industrial Roundup which works well but
they always return awhile later. I end up just pulling the roots. I'll
do the diesel this summer.

Thanks
Just a few teaspoons full to a gallon of mix is all that is required.

Some have found sunlight dishwashing retergent works as well


That's some powerful stuff. I would have used more or even applied 100%


I've never fully understood the surfactant thing. If you read the directions
for the glyphosate products, they say to use a non-ionic surfactant.
But what is dishwashing liquid? From what I could gather, it was impossible
to tell, even for specific brands. What difference does non-ionic vs
non make? IDK. And you'd think in the typical 2.5 gal and smaller jugs
which individuals, small biz, etc would use they would just mix the
surfactant in. Razor does, I think RU does too. But there are lots of
other products that start talking about the damn surfactant instead of just
putting it in. I can understand not putting it in for large quantities,
like a farm would use, so they can use the one of their choice.


Part of the problem is the surfactants are as much of a concern to the
environmentalists as the herbicide. They distance themselves from
specifics.
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Default Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?

On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 17:28:40 -0500, Hawk wrote:

On 2/15/2020 4:49 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 08:57:50 -0500, Hawk wrote:

On 2/15/2020 2:32 AM, wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 23:27:49 -0500, Hawk wrote:

On 2/14/2020 4:17 PM,
wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 11:50:42 -0800 (PST),

wrote:

Both are good brush killer and effect for your front yard. if you are interested to know more about the different check out the he
https://www.bestroachkiller.com/orth...er-vs-roundup/

Weeds like poison ivy laugh at roundup. It may knock the leaves off
but it will be back. You are far better off with a Triclopyr based
product, preferably mixed with a "sticker".
Diesel works great. You don't need a lot. A little spritz will kill
weeds like PI dead. It is what we use on Brazilian peppers, air potato
and Ear leaf Acacia.


Diesel? Fuel?

Yup. It was the original recommended surfactant for Garlon 4. This is
not something you are squirting out of an airplane. You just need to
get some leaves with a few drops each and the plant will go belly up
in a week or two and never come back. I typically treat an acre and a
half with a 16 oz Zep bottle and have plenty left.


Good to know. I've been using industrial Roundup which works well but
they always return awhile later. I end up just pulling the roots. I'll
do the diesel this summer.

Thanks

Just a few teaspoons full to a gallon of mix is all that is required.

Some have found sunlight dishwashing retergent works as well


That's some powerful stuff. I would have used more or even applied 100%

Just to "clare ify" - you mix the roundup according to the
instructions and add a few teaspoons of diesel fuel per gallon of mix.
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Default Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?

On 2/15/2020 8:59 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says...
"Glyphosate is a broad-spectrum systemic herbicide and crop desiccant
which acts by inhibiting the plant enzyme
5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase. ... Once absorbed,
glyphosate moves quickly through the plant and accumulates in areas of
active growth called meristems. ..."

The only reason it doesn't kill zoysia dead is that it's dormant at the
time.

Similar issues with application at times is hot and dry and stuff isn't
actively growing.

Like most other herbicides, against well-established wood brush it will
undoubtedly take multiple applications or combinations to kill all the
roots so it won't re-establish.




I have not used Roundup for a while, but have used other brands that
have the same Glyphosate in them. They cost less for the same
concentration and have other chemicals in them. Mainly something to
help make it stick to the leaves. That is the only place on the plants
that the glyphosate is absorbed. Poision ivy is slick and most sprays
will just slide off. It usually gets rid of the poison ivy without any
trouble if sprayed on during the growing cycle.


Any herbicide that doesn't contain a surfactant with it should have one
added to the mix virtually 100% of the time. Any application without is
pretty-much going to be hit-or-miss unless just soak. For hand
application or spot treatment, just a little detergent will work nicely.

And, yes, "Roundup" is just the trademark name from Monsanto for their
glyphosate line of products. The chemical is the same from other
vendors now that patent protection is over.

As another noted somewhere else, price is partly dependent upon the fact
that the leading brand can carry a premium price tag simply because of
its name recognition; the other factors are concentration and whether
the particular product may/may not contain additional active ingredients
such as combinations of types of herbicide for multiple action
mechanisms or the aforementioned surfactants, etc., etc., ...

--

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Default Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?

On Saturday, February 15, 2020 at 6:20:20 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article ,
says...

I've never fully understood the surfactant thing. If you read the directions
for the glyphosate products, they say to use a non-ionic surfactant.
But what is dishwashing liquid? From what I could gather, it was impossible
to tell, even for specific brands. What difference does non-ionic vs
non make? IDK. And you'd think in the typical 2.5 gal and smaller jugs
which individuals, small biz, etc would use they would just mix the
surfactant in. Razor does, I think RU does too. But there are lots of
other products that start talking about the damn surfactant instead of just
putting it in. I can understand not putting it in for large quantities,
like a farm would use, so they can use the one of their choice.




I use a brand I get at Tractor Supply. Think it is Big and Tough. You
mix just under 3 oz per gallon. I usually just put in 3 oz. It says it
contains the surfactant and is 41 % gly. It came in about either a half
or full gallon container. Forgot which.


Have you tried using less? For general broadleaf weeds I've been using
4 oz into a 3 gal backpack sprayer and it works very well. Mine is the
same, or about the same concentration, 40 something percent.

If I was trying to kill something more difficult, eg poison ivy, vines,
etc, or it was cooler, then I'd use a higher concentration like you're
using.




Works well on the poison ivy for me and most other things.
The just need to be sprayed during the normal growing season. The way I
understand it works is that it prevents the plants from absorbing
whatever it is that makes them grow so the starve to death.
Other types of chemicals over feed the plants and they burn their selves
up trying to grow, like too much fertilizer will do.

I am not sure if I killed a 30 foot pine tree with it or not. There was
a pine tree that looks like a big Christmas tree and I sprayed some
weeds and grass that was growing under it. Within about a year the
needles fell off and did not grow back so I cut it down.
I tried not to get any on the tree .


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Default Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?

On 2/15/2020 4:39 PM, trader_4 wrote:
....

I've never fully understood the surfactant thing. If you read the directions
for the glyphosate products, they say to use a non-ionic surfactant.
But what is dishwashing liquid? From what I could gather, it was impossible
to tell, even for specific brands. What difference does non-ionic vs
non make? IDK. And you'd think in the typical 2.5 gal and smaller jugs
which individuals, small biz, etc would use they would just mix the
surfactant in. Razor does, I think RU does too. But there are lots of
other products that start talking about the damn surfactant instead of just
putting it in. I can understand not putting it in for large quantities,
like a farm would use, so they can use the one of their choice.


"There are different types of surfactants. Each herbicide product has
specific adjuvant requirements that are specified on the product label.
The label will provide guidance and adjuvant options; to address tank
mixtures, environmental conditions, or weed species characteristics."

"Some herbicide products such as Roundup PowerMAX® II Herbicide, are
formulated with sufficient adjuvants in the herbicide formulation and
may not need additional adjuvants added to the spray mixture in all
cases. Some products have specific recommendations for spray adjuvants
that the user must add to the spray mixture. The user should pay
particular attention to label instructions for each tank mix product
because label recommendations may differ for each product."

"Each herbicide manufacturer may have supplemental labels or fact sheets
that provide additional guidance for the use of adjuvants for specific
application situations, weed species, crops, or tank mixtures. There is
a diverse array of adjuvant products and brands. The user must
understand the composition and function of each product to properly
match the adjuvant to individual herbicides or each product in a tank
mixture and application conditions. Comprehensive information on
commercially available adjuvants can be found at
http://www.herbicide-adjuvants.com"

Basically, what surfactant to use depends on the chemical
characteristics of the herbicide such that the two are compatible and so
have the desired net effect. It's all just chemistry (physical
chemistry, actually).

The fundamental difference between a detergent and soap is the inclusion
of surfactants. They have the intent and effect of being able to break
the surface tension between water and otherwise mostly water-insoluble
substances like grease. Same idea with the surfactant on herbicides.
Virtually any detergent uses a combination of ionic and nonionic
surfactants to interact with the targets its intended to get to. Hence
their reasonable effectiveness as herbicide surfactants for at least
home use, but for larger applications they're not nearly as effective as
products designed for purpose and actually comparatively much more
expensive in those volumes.

Here's link to a really nice presentation, actually I just saw after
clipping all the above...

https://conference.ifas.ufl.edu/aw15/documents/Presentations/2%20Wed%205A%20850%20Jay%20Ferrel.pdf

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