Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Home Repair (alt.home.repair) For all homeowners and DIYers with many experienced tradesmen. Solve your toughest home fix-it problems. |
Reply |
|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#41
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?
|
#42
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?
|
#43
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?
On Saturday, February 15, 2020 at 9:46:05 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
On 2/14/2020 9:57 PM, wrote: ... Roundup is still just a defoliant more than a systemic herbicide. That is why you can spray it on your dormant zoysia grass in the winter. "Glyphosate is a broad-spectrum systemic herbicide and crop desiccant which acts by inhibiting the plant enzyme 5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase. ... Once absorbed, glyphosate moves quickly through the plant and accumulates in areas of active growth called meristems. ..." The only reason it doesn't kill zoysia dead is that it's dormant at the time. Similar issues with application at times is hot and dry and stuff isn't actively growing. Like most other herbicides, against well-established wood brush it will undoubtedly take multiple applications or combinations to kill all the roots so it won't re-establish. -- You can probably also spray it on cool season grass in the cold of winter and it won't kill the grass too, for the same reason, the chemical is not readily absorbed and transported. I know when I decided to kill my lawn and reseed, I got delayed and didn't apply the Roundup until Oct. Even though the temps were still moderate, I wasn't counting on how long it would take for it to kill it and for it go brown. I guess I probably could have just proceeded to reseed and the old grass wouldhave died, but I wasn't sure it would kill it. Instead of a week, it took maybe two and a half weeks for it to go brown. |
#45
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?
|
#46
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?
On Saturday, February 15, 2020 at 9:59:54 AM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says... "Glyphosate is a broad-spectrum systemic herbicide and crop desiccant which acts by inhibiting the plant enzyme 5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase. ... Once absorbed, glyphosate moves quickly through the plant and accumulates in areas of active growth called meristems. ..." The only reason it doesn't kill zoysia dead is that it's dormant at the time. Similar issues with application at times is hot and dry and stuff isn't actively growing. Like most other herbicides, against well-established wood brush it will undoubtedly take multiple applications or combinations to kill all the roots so it won't re-establish. I have not used Roundup for a while, but have used other brands that have the same Glyphosate in them. They cost less for the same concentration and have other chemicals in them. Mainly something to help make it stick to the leaves. That is the only place on the plants that the glyphosate is absorbed. Poision ivy is slick and most sprays will just slide off. It usually gets rid of the poison ivy without any trouble if sprayed on during the growing cycle. Same here. I have a 2.5 gal jug of 45% Razor, lasts many years. I suppose the price of all that will be going up with the ambulance chasing lawyers rounding up people to sue. So far they've just gone after Monsanto, the big fish. Funny thing, in all the years of using it around here, I rarely get any on me at all, let alone winding up drenched in it like the janitor claims happened to him. |
#47
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?
|
#48
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?
On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 13:06:35 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote: In article , says... Same here. I have a 2.5 gal jug of 45% Razor, lasts many years. I suppose the price of all that will be going up with the ambulance chasing lawyers rounding up people to sue. So far they've just gone after Monsanto, the big fish. Funny thing, in all the years of using it around here, I rarely get any on me at all, let alone winding up drenched in it like the janitor claims happened to him. Yea, the ambulance chasers ruin most everything that works. Wife likes the Chanel # 5 powder. Seems they quit makiing that due to the baby powder law suits. Can not get the cloridiene that wipes out termites and most everything else. Try Bifen. That is my new go to insecticide. You can get the concentrate online. Just be careful, it is nasty stuff. (nitrile gloves, respirator etc). It is the only thing that seems to push back Florida ants and the palmetto bugs are history. |
#49
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?
|
#50
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?
On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 08:57:50 -0500, Hawk wrote:
On 2/15/2020 2:32 AM, wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 23:27:49 -0500, Hawk wrote: On 2/14/2020 4:17 PM, wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 11:50:42 -0800 (PST), wrote: Both are good brush killer and effect for your front yard. if you are interested to know more about the different check out the he https://www.bestroachkiller.com/orth...er-vs-roundup/ Weeds like poison ivy laugh at roundup. It may knock the leaves off but it will be back. You are far better off with a Triclopyr based product, preferably mixed with a "sticker". Diesel works great. You don't need a lot. A little spritz will kill weeds like PI dead. It is what we use on Brazilian peppers, air potato and Ear leaf Acacia. Diesel? Fuel? Yup. It was the original recommended surfactant for Garlon 4. This is not something you are squirting out of an airplane. You just need to get some leaves with a few drops each and the plant will go belly up in a week or two and never come back. I typically treat an acre and a half with a 16 oz Zep bottle and have plenty left. Good to know. I've been using industrial Roundup which works well but they always return awhile later. I end up just pulling the roots. I'll do the diesel this summer. Thanks Just a few teaspoons full to a gallon of mix is all that is required. Some have found sunlight dishwashing retergent works as well |
#51
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?
On 2/15/2020 4:49 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 08:57:50 -0500, Hawk wrote: On 2/15/2020 2:32 AM, wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 23:27:49 -0500, Hawk wrote: On 2/14/2020 4:17 PM, wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 11:50:42 -0800 (PST), wrote: Both are good brush killer and effect for your front yard. if you are interested to know more about the different check out the he https://www.bestroachkiller.com/orth...er-vs-roundup/ Weeds like poison ivy laugh at roundup. It may knock the leaves off but it will be back. You are far better off with a Triclopyr based product, preferably mixed with a "sticker". Diesel works great. You don't need a lot. A little spritz will kill weeds like PI dead. It is what we use on Brazilian peppers, air potato and Ear leaf Acacia. Diesel? Fuel? Yup. It was the original recommended surfactant for Garlon 4. This is not something you are squirting out of an airplane. You just need to get some leaves with a few drops each and the plant will go belly up in a week or two and never come back. I typically treat an acre and a half with a 16 oz Zep bottle and have plenty left. Good to know. I've been using industrial Roundup which works well but they always return awhile later. I end up just pulling the roots. I'll do the diesel this summer. Thanks Just a few teaspoons full to a gallon of mix is all that is required. Some have found sunlight dishwashing retergent works as well That's some powerful stuff. I would have used more or even applied 100% |
#52
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?
On Saturday, February 15, 2020 at 5:27:40 PM UTC-5, Hawk wrote:
On 2/15/2020 4:49 PM, Clare Snyder wrote: On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 08:57:50 -0500, Hawk wrote: On 2/15/2020 2:32 AM, wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 23:27:49 -0500, Hawk wrote: On 2/14/2020 4:17 PM, wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 11:50:42 -0800 (PST), wrote: Both are good brush killer and effect for your front yard. if you are interested to know more about the different check out the he https://www.bestroachkiller.com/orth...er-vs-roundup/ Weeds like poison ivy laugh at roundup. It may knock the leaves off but it will be back. You are far better off with a Triclopyr based product, preferably mixed with a "sticker". Diesel works great. You don't need a lot. A little spritz will kill weeds like PI dead. It is what we use on Brazilian peppers, air potato and Ear leaf Acacia. Diesel? Fuel? Yup. It was the original recommended surfactant for Garlon 4. This is not something you are squirting out of an airplane. You just need to get some leaves with a few drops each and the plant will go belly up in a week or two and never come back. I typically treat an acre and a half with a 16 oz Zep bottle and have plenty left. Good to know. I've been using industrial Roundup which works well but they always return awhile later. I end up just pulling the roots. I'll do the diesel this summer. Thanks Just a few teaspoons full to a gallon of mix is all that is required. Some have found sunlight dishwashing retergent works as well That's some powerful stuff. I would have used more or even applied 100% I've never fully understood the surfactant thing. If you read the directions for the glyphosate products, they say to use a non-ionic surfactant. But what is dishwashing liquid? From what I could gather, it was impossible to tell, even for specific brands. What difference does non-ionic vs non make? IDK. And you'd think in the typical 2.5 gal and smaller jugs which individuals, small biz, etc would use they would just mix the surfactant in. Razor does, I think RU does too. But there are lots of other products that start talking about the damn surfactant instead of just putting it in. I can understand not putting it in for large quantities, like a farm would use, so they can use the one of their choice. |
#53
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?
|
#54
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?
On 2/15/2020 6:20 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says... I've never fully understood the surfactant thing. If you read the directions for the glyphosate products, they say to use a non-ionic surfactant. But what is dishwashing liquid? From what I could gather, it was impossible to tell, even for specific brands. What difference does non-ionic vs non make? IDK. And you'd think in the typical 2.5 gal and smaller jugs which individuals, small biz, etc would use they would just mix the surfactant in. Razor does, I think RU does too. But there are lots of other products that start talking about the damn surfactant instead of just putting it in. I can understand not putting it in for large quantities, like a farm would use, so they can use the one of their choice. I use a brand I get at Tractor Supply. Think it is Big and Tough. You mix just under 3 oz per gallon. I usually just put in 3 oz. It says it contains the surfactant and is 41 % gly. It came in about either a half or full gallon container. Forgot which. Works well on the poison ivy for me and most other things. The just need to be sprayed during the normal growing season. The way I understand it works is that it prevents the plants from absorbing whatever it is that makes them grow so the starve to death. Other types of chemicals over feed the plants and they burn their selves up trying to grow, like too much fertilizer will do. I am not sure if I killed a 30 foot pine tree with it or not. There was a pine tree that looks like a big Christmas tree and I sprayed some weeds and grass that was growing under it. Within about a year the needles fell off and did not grow back so I cut it down. I tried not to get any on the tree . i was worried about the same thing when I killed the English ivy around my house with the evergreen foundation plantings. Did not faze any of them and all the ivy died. I had kept it off the bushes. |
#55
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?
On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 15:45:46 -0500, Ralph Mowery
wrote: In article , says... Try Bifen. That is my new go to insecticide. You can get the concentrate online. Just be careful, it is nasty stuff. (nitrile gloves, respirator etc). It is the only thing that seems to push back Florida ants and the palmetto bugs are history. We have been getting a lot of fire ants in the area. I don't recall what it is called, but I get it at the Tractor Supply store. It looks sort of like saw dust. The ants carry it back to the queen and in a few days they are all dead. Works very well on the other ants too. Baits work until the ants figure out not to eat it. You never kill them all and they have discovered orphan ants might get adopted by another colony, if they bring something valuable, like what not to eat. Evolution is an amazing thing. Amdro used to be the "go to" thing around here. Now you can pile it up in the yard and the ants won't touch it. |
#56
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?
On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 14:39:07 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote: On Saturday, February 15, 2020 at 5:27:40 PM UTC-5, Hawk wrote: On 2/15/2020 4:49 PM, Clare Snyder wrote: On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 08:57:50 -0500, Hawk wrote: On 2/15/2020 2:32 AM, wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 23:27:49 -0500, Hawk wrote: On 2/14/2020 4:17 PM, wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 11:50:42 -0800 (PST), wrote: Both are good brush killer and effect for your front yard. if you are interested to know more about the different check out the he https://www.bestroachkiller.com/orth...er-vs-roundup/ Weeds like poison ivy laugh at roundup. It may knock the leaves off but it will be back. You are far better off with a Triclopyr based product, preferably mixed with a "sticker". Diesel works great. You don't need a lot. A little spritz will kill weeds like PI dead. It is what we use on Brazilian peppers, air potato and Ear leaf Acacia. Diesel? Fuel? Yup. It was the original recommended surfactant for Garlon 4. This is not something you are squirting out of an airplane. You just need to get some leaves with a few drops each and the plant will go belly up in a week or two and never come back. I typically treat an acre and a half with a 16 oz Zep bottle and have plenty left. Good to know. I've been using industrial Roundup which works well but they always return awhile later. I end up just pulling the roots. I'll do the diesel this summer. Thanks Just a few teaspoons full to a gallon of mix is all that is required. Some have found sunlight dishwashing retergent works as well That's some powerful stuff. I would have used more or even applied 100% I've never fully understood the surfactant thing. If you read the directions for the glyphosate products, they say to use a non-ionic surfactant. But what is dishwashing liquid? From what I could gather, it was impossible to tell, even for specific brands. What difference does non-ionic vs non make? IDK. And you'd think in the typical 2.5 gal and smaller jugs which individuals, small biz, etc would use they would just mix the surfactant in. Razor does, I think RU does too. But there are lots of other products that start talking about the damn surfactant instead of just putting it in. I can understand not putting it in for large quantities, like a farm would use, so they can use the one of their choice. Part of the problem is the surfactants are as much of a concern to the environmentalists as the herbicide. They distance themselves from specifics. |
#57
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?
On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 17:28:40 -0500, Hawk wrote:
On 2/15/2020 4:49 PM, Clare Snyder wrote: On Sat, 15 Feb 2020 08:57:50 -0500, Hawk wrote: On 2/15/2020 2:32 AM, wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 23:27:49 -0500, Hawk wrote: On 2/14/2020 4:17 PM, wrote: On Fri, 14 Feb 2020 11:50:42 -0800 (PST), wrote: Both are good brush killer and effect for your front yard. if you are interested to know more about the different check out the he https://www.bestroachkiller.com/orth...er-vs-roundup/ Weeds like poison ivy laugh at roundup. It may knock the leaves off but it will be back. You are far better off with a Triclopyr based product, preferably mixed with a "sticker". Diesel works great. You don't need a lot. A little spritz will kill weeds like PI dead. It is what we use on Brazilian peppers, air potato and Ear leaf Acacia. Diesel? Fuel? Yup. It was the original recommended surfactant for Garlon 4. This is not something you are squirting out of an airplane. You just need to get some leaves with a few drops each and the plant will go belly up in a week or two and never come back. I typically treat an acre and a half with a 16 oz Zep bottle and have plenty left. Good to know. I've been using industrial Roundup which works well but they always return awhile later. I end up just pulling the roots. I'll do the diesel this summer. Thanks Just a few teaspoons full to a gallon of mix is all that is required. Some have found sunlight dishwashing retergent works as well That's some powerful stuff. I would have used more or even applied 100% Just to "clare ify" - you mix the roundup according to the instructions and add a few teaspoons of diesel fuel per gallon of mix. |
#58
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?
On 2/15/2020 8:59 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says... "Glyphosate is a broad-spectrum systemic herbicide and crop desiccant which acts by inhibiting the plant enzyme 5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase. ... Once absorbed, glyphosate moves quickly through the plant and accumulates in areas of active growth called meristems. ..." The only reason it doesn't kill zoysia dead is that it's dormant at the time. Similar issues with application at times is hot and dry and stuff isn't actively growing. Like most other herbicides, against well-established wood brush it will undoubtedly take multiple applications or combinations to kill all the roots so it won't re-establish. I have not used Roundup for a while, but have used other brands that have the same Glyphosate in them. They cost less for the same concentration and have other chemicals in them. Mainly something to help make it stick to the leaves. That is the only place on the plants that the glyphosate is absorbed. Poision ivy is slick and most sprays will just slide off. It usually gets rid of the poison ivy without any trouble if sprayed on during the growing cycle. Any herbicide that doesn't contain a surfactant with it should have one added to the mix virtually 100% of the time. Any application without is pretty-much going to be hit-or-miss unless just soak. For hand application or spot treatment, just a little detergent will work nicely. And, yes, "Roundup" is just the trademark name from Monsanto for their glyphosate line of products. The chemical is the same from other vendors now that patent protection is over. As another noted somewhere else, price is partly dependent upon the fact that the leading brand can carry a premium price tag simply because of its name recognition; the other factors are concentration and whether the particular product may/may not contain additional active ingredients such as combinations of types of herbicide for multiple action mechanisms or the aforementioned surfactants, etc., etc., ... -- |
#59
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?
On Saturday, February 15, 2020 at 6:20:20 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says... I've never fully understood the surfactant thing. If you read the directions for the glyphosate products, they say to use a non-ionic surfactant. But what is dishwashing liquid? From what I could gather, it was impossible to tell, even for specific brands. What difference does non-ionic vs non make? IDK. And you'd think in the typical 2.5 gal and smaller jugs which individuals, small biz, etc would use they would just mix the surfactant in. Razor does, I think RU does too. But there are lots of other products that start talking about the damn surfactant instead of just putting it in. I can understand not putting it in for large quantities, like a farm would use, so they can use the one of their choice. I use a brand I get at Tractor Supply. Think it is Big and Tough. You mix just under 3 oz per gallon. I usually just put in 3 oz. It says it contains the surfactant and is 41 % gly. It came in about either a half or full gallon container. Forgot which. Have you tried using less? For general broadleaf weeds I've been using 4 oz into a 3 gal backpack sprayer and it works very well. Mine is the same, or about the same concentration, 40 something percent. If I was trying to kill something more difficult, eg poison ivy, vines, etc, or it was cooler, then I'd use a higher concentration like you're using. Works well on the poison ivy for me and most other things. The just need to be sprayed during the normal growing season. The way I understand it works is that it prevents the plants from absorbing whatever it is that makes them grow so the starve to death. Other types of chemicals over feed the plants and they burn their selves up trying to grow, like too much fertilizer will do. I am not sure if I killed a 30 foot pine tree with it or not. There was a pine tree that looks like a big Christmas tree and I sprayed some weeds and grass that was growing under it. Within about a year the needles fell off and did not grow back so I cut it down. I tried not to get any on the tree . |
#60
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?
|
#61
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?
On 2/15/2020 4:39 PM, trader_4 wrote:
.... I've never fully understood the surfactant thing. If you read the directions for the glyphosate products, they say to use a non-ionic surfactant. But what is dishwashing liquid? From what I could gather, it was impossible to tell, even for specific brands. What difference does non-ionic vs non make? IDK. And you'd think in the typical 2.5 gal and smaller jugs which individuals, small biz, etc would use they would just mix the surfactant in. Razor does, I think RU does too. But there are lots of other products that start talking about the damn surfactant instead of just putting it in. I can understand not putting it in for large quantities, like a farm would use, so they can use the one of their choice. "There are different types of surfactants. Each herbicide product has specific adjuvant requirements that are specified on the product label. The label will provide guidance and adjuvant options; to address tank mixtures, environmental conditions, or weed species characteristics." "Some herbicide products such as Roundup PowerMAX® II Herbicide, are formulated with sufficient adjuvants in the herbicide formulation and may not need additional adjuvants added to the spray mixture in all cases. Some products have specific recommendations for spray adjuvants that the user must add to the spray mixture. The user should pay particular attention to label instructions for each tank mix product because label recommendations may differ for each product." "Each herbicide manufacturer may have supplemental labels or fact sheets that provide additional guidance for the use of adjuvants for specific application situations, weed species, crops, or tank mixtures. There is a diverse array of adjuvant products and brands. The user must understand the composition and function of each product to properly match the adjuvant to individual herbicides or each product in a tank mixture and application conditions. Comprehensive information on commercially available adjuvants can be found at http://www.herbicide-adjuvants.com" Basically, what surfactant to use depends on the chemical characteristics of the herbicide such that the two are compatible and so have the desired net effect. It's all just chemistry (physical chemistry, actually). The fundamental difference between a detergent and soap is the inclusion of surfactants. They have the intent and effect of being able to break the surface tension between water and otherwise mostly water-insoluble substances like grease. Same idea with the surfactant on herbicides. Virtually any detergent uses a combination of ionic and nonionic surfactants to interact with the targets its intended to get to. Hence their reasonable effectiveness as herbicide surfactants for at least home use, but for larger applications they're not nearly as effective as products designed for purpose and actually comparatively much more expensive in those volumes. Here's link to a really nice presentation, actually I just saw after clipping all the above... https://conference.ifas.ufl.edu/aw15/documents/Presentations/2%20Wed%205A%20850%20Jay%20Ferrel.pdf -- |
#62
Posted to alt.home.repair
|
|||
|
|||
Roundup: Should It Kill Poison Ivy?
On Sunday, February 16, 2020 at 2:09:59 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article , says... Have you tried using less? For general broadleaf weeds I've been using 4 oz into a 3 gal backpack sprayer and it works very well. Mine is the same, or about the same concentration, 40 something percent. If I was trying to kill something more difficult, eg poison ivy, vines, etc, or it was cooler, then I'd use a higher concentration like you're using. I don't spray much so I just used what I recall as the highest on the instructions. I just wrote it on the outside of the plastic jug so I would not have to look at the instructions. A standard size jug of the stuff will last a couple of years. I don't know how long it is suppose to last in the jug once opened, so no more than I use I like to get a fresh supply every couple of years. Most of what I was trying to kill when I first bought it was the poison ivy. There was some in the woods around the house. I think it lasts in the jug a very long time. It took me ten years or so to go through the first 2.5 gals and no difference in performance. |
Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Roundup | UK diy | |||
Roundup or What? | UK diy | |||
How to kill poison ivy | Home Repair | |||
KILL ALL THE WHITE PEOPLE KILL EM ALL | Woodworking | |||
Roundup Deemed Dangerous/ Poison Ivy Revisited | Home Repair |