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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?




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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 10:45:54 AM UTC-4, Texas Kingsnake wrote:
Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?


24" in open areas, it can be less if it goes under concrete, etc.

Best way to do it might be a day laborer. You could rent
a small walk behind ditch witch type gizom, depending on what's
available in your area. HD might rent them. How practical that
is depends on the cost and what you have to move it.
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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On 6/28/2015 10:45 AM, Texas Kingsnake wrote:
Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?





As directed by the local building code people.

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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 11:08:20 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 10:45:54 AM UTC-4, Texas Kingsnake wrote:
Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?


24" in open areas, it can be less if it goes under concrete, etc.


Let me correct that. I just looked at the code to make sure
and above is true for direct burial cable. If you use pvc
conduit, it's 18". And there is an exception for branch circuits
of 20A or less that are GFCI protected, in which case it's 12"
regardless if it's direct burial or conduit.
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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On 2015-06-28, Texas Kingsnake wrote:
Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?


Depends on where you live.

I live in the CO Rockies and we are in the middle of digging up our
entire 300 unit snowbird park for a new sewage system. The biggest
problem is the rocks. This entire valley is an ancient river bed and
one WILL stumble on smooth round river rocks tha size of a Ford
Exhibition, six ft or six inches under the surface. We have explosive
ordnance experts to deal with the really big boulders.

Bring the biggest backhoe you can afford. We have dozens working,
here. Everything from huge Cat's to itty-bitty Bobcat's. It's like a
used backhoe lot. Volvo's, Kamatsu's, Deere's, etc. If a bigger
backhoe is needed, it's get's trucked in. No one is going out with a
pick n' shovel and digging any 10 ft deep trenches anytime, soon. I
know.

My first job, after the service, was as a ditch digger. Swimming pool
plumbing ditches. Four foot deep in hardpan. At least a pick will
break up hardpan. But, the best pick in the world isn't gonna do spit
to a 20 ft diameter granite boulder. 8|

nb




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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 11:08:41 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 6/28/2015 10:45 AM, Texas Kingsnake wrote:
Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?





As directed by the local building code people.


That's true, what I cited is for NEC which is generally followed,
probably valid for TX, but locals always have the final say.
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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?

24" in open areas, it can be less if it goes under concrete, etc.


Best way to do it might be a day laborer. You could rent
a small walk behind ditch witch type gizom, depending on what's
available in your area. HD might rent them. How practical that
is depends on the cost and what you have to move it.


The type of soil makes a difference too. We have lots of rocks in our
ground, everything from a couple inches across up to several feet across. A
ditch witch digger would be worthless here.

We usually start out with a straight line from the source to the
destination. Then we alter that route as needed to work around buried
boulders. The end result is usually more serpentine than straight line.

The first trench we dug for our incoming power line was in the rockiest
part of our property. By the time we dug around all the boulders to try and
find a way through the various rocks, we had a crater about 8 feet across.
Eventually we did find a route through the rocks though. Thankfully, most
other trenches we have dug have been less problematic.

I hired a backhoe once to dig a trench for us. He didn't fare much better
than we did with shovels. Since then we've just grabbed a shovel and
started digging.

Of course, rigid drain pipes or conduit aren't always flexible like
electrical cables. If I absolutely can't find a way to reroute the trench
around a rock I have resorted to drilling and chipping away at the rock to
get the necessary clearance. Thankfully, I've only had to do that once or
twice in the last 25 years.

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com
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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On Sun, 28 Jun 2015 09:45:41 -0500, Texas Kingsnake
wrote:

Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?


A call to the Digger's Hotline might be a good first step.
There are at least two benefits to using a shovel. Most of us
could use the exercise. Plus, a penny saved is a penny earned.
A guy might be paying himself good money by not renting a machine
to do the work.


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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On 2015-06-28, HerHusband wrote:

Of course, rigid drain pipes or conduit aren't always flexible like
electrical cables.


Nor entirely practical. My old phone line goes through a PVC pipe.
Problem is, water gets into the pipe and when Winter time comes 'round
and there goes my landline. I hadda run a above ground line, instead.
Sometimes, still gets wet and drops out, but at least I can access it and
fix it when it does.

BTW, one the few times WD40 is actaully helpful.

nb
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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On 6/28/2015 8:08 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 10:45:54 AM UTC-4, Texas Kingsnake wrote:
Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?


24" in open areas, it can be less if it goes under concrete, etc.

Best way to do it might be a day laborer. You could rent
a small walk behind ditch witch type gizom, depending on what's
available in your area. HD might rent them. How practical that
is depends on the cost and what you have to move it.

Dig no deeper than all the wires/pipes you cross in the path.


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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 12:47:08 PM UTC-4, notbob wrote:
On 2015-06-28, HerHusband wrote:

Of course, rigid drain pipes or conduit aren't always flexible like
electrical cables.


Nor entirely practical. My old phone line goes through a PVC pipe.
Problem is, water gets into the pipe and when Winter time comes 'round
and there goes my landline. I hadda run a above ground line, instead.
Sometimes, still gets wet and drops out, but at least I can access it and
fix it when it does.

BTW, one the few times WD40 is actaully helpful.

nb


Sounds like the problem there is not using wires rated for wet locations.
All PVC underground winds up with some moisture and water in it.
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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On 6/28/2015 9:45 AM, Texas Kingsnake wrote:
Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?


After you have the ****ing trench dug, don't ****ing direct bury the ****ing cable.
Install at least 1" PVC electrical conduit in the ****ing trench.
(Makes wire replacement a **** of a lot easier in the ****ing future.)

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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On 28 Jun 2015 15:13:35 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2015-06-28, Texas Kingsnake wrote:
Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?


Depends on where you live.

I live in the CO Rockies and we are in the middle of digging up our
entire 300 unit snowbird park for a new sewage system. The biggest
problem is the rocks. This entire valley is an ancient river bed and
one WILL stumble on smooth round river rocks tha size of a Ford
Exhibition, six ft or six inches under the surface. We have explosive
ordnance experts to deal with the really big boulders.


Nevada was an ocean, once. We have Caliche. The cost of building a
swimming pool can double or even more if it is found on site.
....machines or explosives

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliche
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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

"trader_4" wrote in message
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On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 10:45:54 AM UTC-4, Texas Kingsnake wrote:
Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?


24" in open areas, it can be less if it goes under concrete, etc.

Best way to do it might be a day laborer. You could rent
a small walk behind ditch witch type gizom, depending on what's
available in your area. HD might rent them. How practical that
is depends on the cost and what you have to move it.


Thanks for the info. I have been looking at something called a "ditch
witch" for rental but it's expensive and like you said it is not easily
transportable. I am also worried what happens if I hit a rock using a
rented tool like that. How much could I be stuck for in a repair bill if I
wreck the cutter? Can you buy insurance from the rental places just in
case? I've never rented a tool in my life so I really don't know what's
involved.

TKS




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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On 06/28/2015 11:39 AM, Dean Hoffman wrote:

[snip]

There are at least two benefits to using a shovel. Most of us
could use the exercise. Plus, a penny saved is a penny earned.
A guy might be paying himself good money by not renting a machine
to do the work.


and a shovel is less likely to break a buried gas line.

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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

"trader_4" wrote in message
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On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 11:08:20 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 10:45:54 AM UTC-4, Texas Kingsnake wrote:
Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?


24" in open areas, it can be less if it goes under concrete, etc.


Let me correct that. I just looked at the code to make sure
and above is true for direct burial cable. If you use pvc
conduit, it's 18". And there is an exception for branch circuits
of 20A or less that are GFCI protected, in which case it's 12"
regardless if it's direct burial or conduit.


Thanks for the update. Depth will make a serious difference in how hard it
will be to dig the trench. I am thinking I will get the guy who butchered
my bricks to dig the ditch for free instead of my suing him. How hard could
THAT be not to eff up?

FWIW, I am using underground rated UF-14/2 cable that will be connected to a
GFCI to run some new outdoor lights. A juvenile delinquent has moved in
next door and I want to put up some motion detector lights and maybe some
sort of camera to catch him at work (I looked out the window one day to see
him tossing trash in my yard).

I was considering doing the work myself but I have no experience with
outside wiring or how to waterproof it so I may just dig the ditches and let
a licensed electrician do the hook-ups.

TKS


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"HerHusband" wrote in message
...
Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?


24" in open areas, it can be less if it goes under concrete, etc.


Best way to do it might be a day laborer. You could rent
a small walk behind ditch witch type gizom, depending on what's
available in your area. HD might rent them. How practical that
is depends on the cost and what you have to move it.


The type of soil makes a difference too. We have lots of rocks in our
ground, everything from a couple inches across up to several feet across.

A
ditch witch digger would be worthless here.


Oh boy. That might put the kibosh on the digger. Rock'r'Us if you know
what I mean.

We usually start out with a straight line from the source to the
destination. Then we alter that route as needed to work around buried
boulders. The end result is usually more serpentine than straight line.


That means it's not likely I'll be able to use PVC conduit although I didn't
have plans to. It sounded like a good idea but I don't see having to rewire
it during my lifetime.

The first trench we dug for our incoming power line was in the rockiest
part of our property. By the time we dug around all the boulders to try

and
find a way through the various rocks, we had a crater about 8 feet across.
Eventually we did find a route through the rocks though. Thankfully, most
other trenches we have dug have been less problematic.


I have been considering solar-powered lightning instead of running a cable
but I have yet to see the solar powered light that I thought was worth a
tinker's damn.

I hired a backhoe once to dig a trench for us. He didn't fare much better
than we did with shovels. Since then we've just grabbed a shovel and
started digging.


I thought about the backhoe and just hiring an excavation company to do the
job. Someone said if I was flexible about when they did it, I could save a
lot of money. Not sure if that is true but I guess they might have
unplanned down time they'd like to fill by digging a hole for me.

Of course, rigid drain pipes or conduit aren't always flexible like
electrical cables. If I absolutely can't find a way to reroute the trench
around a rock I have resorted to drilling and chipping away at the rock to
get the necessary clearance. Thankfully, I've only had to do that once or
twice in the last 25 years.


I would hate to have done it once. I had to dig around some pretty big
rocks to run my sump pump output. I ended up using a piece of rebar and a
sledge hammer to hunt for rocks. Sings out like a carnival attraction when
the rod finally meets a boulder. No kewpie dolls for ringing the bell,
though.

TKS


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"notbob" wrote in message
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On 2015-06-28, HerHusband wrote:

Of course, rigid drain pipes or conduit aren't always flexible like
electrical cables.


Nor entirely practical. My old phone line goes through a PVC pipe.
Problem is, water gets into the pipe and when Winter time comes 'round
and there goes my landline. I hadda run a above ground line, instead.
Sometimes, still gets wet and drops out, but at least I can access it and
fix it when it does.

BTW, one the few times WD40 is actaully helpful.


I doubt I will run it through conduit. Might make it easier to rewire in
the future but that's not a real concern.

TKS


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"trader_4" wrote in message
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On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 12:47:08 PM UTC-4, notbob wrote:
On 2015-06-28, HerHusband wrote:

Of course, rigid drain pipes or conduit aren't always flexible like
electrical cables.


Nor entirely practical. My old phone line goes through a PVC pipe.
Problem is, water gets into the pipe and when Winter time comes 'round
and there goes my landline. I hadda run a above ground line, instead.
Sometimes, still gets wet and drops out, but at least I can access it

and
fix it when it does.

BTW, one the few times WD40 is actaully helpful.

nb


Sounds like the problem there is not using wires rated for wet locations.
All PVC underground winds up with some moisture and water in it.


I agree but I wonder where the moisture comes from? Condensation? Leaks at
the entry/exit points from the ground? Well glued PVC *should* be
waterproof, should it not? From what I've read about UF wire, direct burial
should be fine. I just wish I could get away with direct burial of the
juvie living next door that's caused this need for better perimeter
lighting. wicked smile

TKS




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wrote in message
...
On 28 Jun 2015 16:47:03 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2015-06-28, HerHusband wrote:

Of course, rigid drain pipes or conduit aren't always flexible like
electrical cables.


Nor entirely practical. My old phone line goes through a PVC pipe.
Problem is, water gets into the pipe and when Winter time comes 'round
and there goes my landline. I hadda run a above ground line, instead.
Sometimes, still gets wet and drops out, but at least I can access it and
fix it when it does.

BTW, one the few times WD40 is actaully helpful.

nb


You just used the wrong wire. Anything underground is a wet location,
the pipe WILL fill up with water. If you used the "flooded" phone
wire, you would have been fine.


Is that the stuff where the insulation is actually some gel goo that keeps
the water out?

TKS


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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On Sun, 28 Jun 2015 16:57:59 -0400, "Texas Kingsnake"
wrote:

"notbob" wrote in message
...
On 2015-06-28, HerHusband wrote:

Of course, rigid drain pipes or conduit aren't always flexible like
electrical cables.


Nor entirely practical. My old phone line goes through a PVC pipe.
Problem is, water gets into the pipe and when Winter time comes 'round
and there goes my landline. I hadda run a above ground line, instead.
Sometimes, still gets wet and drops out, but at least I can access it and
fix it when it does.

BTW, one the few times WD40 is actaully helpful.


I doubt I will run it through conduit. Might make it easier to rewire in
the future but that's not a real concern.

TKS

Run 12 volt lighting - bury the wire as deep as you can, but if you
can't get deeper than 6 inches? No worry.
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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On Sun, 28 Jun 2015 16:03:29 -0500, Texas Kingsnake
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On 28 Jun 2015 16:47:03 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2015-06-28, HerHusband wrote:

Of course, rigid drain pipes or conduit aren't always flexible like
electrical cables.

Nor entirely practical. My old phone line goes through a PVC pipe.
Problem is, water gets into the pipe and when Winter time comes 'round
and there goes my landline. I hadda run a above ground line, instead.
Sometimes, still gets wet and drops out, but at least I can access it

and
fix it when it does.

BTW, one the few times WD40 is actaully helpful.

nb


You just used the wrong wire. Anything underground is a wet location,
the pipe WILL fill up with water. If you used the "flooded" phone
wire, you would have been fine.


Is that the stuff where the insulation is actually some gel goo that
keeps
the water out?


There is shielded cable which is more expensive of course. I don't
think there would be any code problems if you ran a spare 12w/g either.
Are gophers or mice an issue in your area?

TKS




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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

"notbob" wrote in message
...
On 2015-06-28, Texas Kingsnake wrote:
Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?


Depends on where you live.

I live in the CO Rockies and we are in the middle of digging up our
entire 300 unit snowbird park for a new sewage system. The biggest
problem is the rocks. This entire valley is an ancient river bed and
one WILL stumble on smooth round river rocks tha size of a Ford
Exhibition, six ft or six inches under the surface. We have explosive
ordnance experts to deal with the really big boulders.

Bring the biggest backhoe you can afford. We have dozens working,
here. Everything from huge Cat's to itty-bitty Bobcat's. It's like a
used backhoe lot. Volvo's, Kamatsu's, Deere's, etc. If a bigger
backhoe is needed, it's get's trucked in. No one is going out with a
pick n' shovel and digging any 10 ft deep trenches anytime, soon. I
know.

My first job, after the service, was as a ditch digger. Swimming pool
plumbing ditches. Four foot deep in hardpan. At least a pick will
break up hardpan. But, the best pick in the world isn't gonna do spit
to a 20 ft diameter granite boulder. 8|


Explosives, eh? That would make me even more unpopular than I already am
with the neighbors. I would definitely try solar powered lights before it
comes to that.

TKS


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wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Jun 2015 10:45:41 -0400, "Texas Kingsnake"
wrote:

Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?




You can rent a ditch witch trencher. I suppose a lot depends on what
the soil is like.
Burial depth really depends on where this is. The basic rule is direct
burial cable (UF) is 24", PVC conduit is 18" if this is not below a
road.
There is an exception for 15 and 20 amp 120v on a residential
property, that is GFCI protected at the source ... 12 inches. (cable
or conduit)


That's nice - just the kind of exemption I need. Thanks!

TKS




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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On 6/28/2015 2:03 PM, Billy Bologna wrote:
After you have the ****ing trench dug, don't ****ing direct bury the
****ing cable.
Install at least 1" PVC electrical conduit in the ****ing trench.
(Makes wire replacement a **** of a lot easier in the ****ing future.)


Are you military, or ex con?

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learn more about Jesus
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"Dean Hoffman" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 28 Jun 2015 16:03:29 -0500, Texas Kingsnake
wrote:

wrote in message
...
On 28 Jun 2015 16:47:03 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2015-06-28, HerHusband wrote:

Of course, rigid drain pipes or conduit aren't always flexible like
electrical cables.

Nor entirely practical. My old phone line goes through a PVC pipe.
Problem is, water gets into the pipe and when Winter time comes 'round
and there goes my landline. I hadda run a above ground line, instead.
Sometimes, still gets wet and drops out, but at least I can access it
and
fix it when it does.

BTW, one the few times WD40 is actaully helpful.

nb

You just used the wrong wire. Anything underground is a wet location,
the pipe WILL fill up with water. If you used the "flooded" phone
wire, you would have been fine.


Is that the stuff where the insulation is actually some gel goo that
keeps
the water out?


There is shielded cable which is more expensive of course. I don't
think there would be any code problems if you ran a spare 12w/g either.


Yes, I suspect wire is going to be cheapest part of this project. I wanted
to run a closed circuit TV cable in the same ditch but everything I've read
says it's going to pick up interference. I don't know enough electronics to
know for sure, but shouldn't that TV cable with 4 layers of shielding be
immune to any RF radiating from a 110 volt AC line running along side it? I
bought a thousand feet of it so I can afford to experiment. Didn't know
they made that in burial v. indoor stuff, either until I was looking a few
minutes ago. Not sure why I would really want a second UF 14/2 cable
because the ground's pretty stable and too tough for critters to drill
through.

Are gophers or mice an issue in your area?


Not unless they recently mutated. Well, mice maybe but no one I know had
complained about rodents other than raccoons and they keep to the
once-a-week garbage bins, mostly. With my luck, my new trench will find them
all. frown

Our county went to once-a-week to save money but in the summer, it's no fun
to live downwind of a large family with lots of youngsters that consume
Pampers by the bale. Think they would get the message if I set up a huge
pedestal fan in the yard to blow the stench back their way? smile

TKS


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wrote in message
...
On Sun, 28 Jun 2015 16:57:59 -0400, "Texas Kingsnake"
wrote:

"notbob" wrote in message
...
On 2015-06-28, HerHusband wrote:

Of course, rigid drain pipes or conduit aren't always flexible like
electrical cables.

Nor entirely practical. My old phone line goes through a PVC pipe.
Problem is, water gets into the pipe and when Winter time comes 'round
and there goes my landline. I hadda run a above ground line, instead.
Sometimes, still gets wet and drops out, but at least I can access it

and
fix it when it does.

BTW, one the few times WD40 is actaully helpful.


I doubt I will run it through conduit. Might make it easier to rewire in
the future but that's not a real concern.

TKS

Run 12 volt lighting - bury the wire as deep as you can, but if you
can't get deeper than 6 inches? No worry.


Great Caesar's Ghost! Why didn't I think about that? I think 14/2 UF with
ground should be more than enough to power some LED lawn and spot
lighting, But there's an additional payoff with going DC (someone correct
me if I am wrong). There's no RF interference on a video feed from a
parallel DC power cable. It's the AC 60 sine wave that causes the video
interference. Two birds killed with one stone.

BSSF, sir. I thank you! (Best Suggestion So Far)

TKS


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"Dean Hoffman" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 28 Jun 2015 09:45:41 -0500, Texas Kingsnake
wrote:

Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?


A call to the Digger's Hotline might be a good first step.


Yes, thanks for reminding me. Good idea.

There are at least two benefits to using a shovel. Most of us
could use the exercise. Plus, a penny saved is a penny earned.
A guy might be paying himself good money by not renting a machine
to do the work.


The last time I used my post-hole digger I remember saying to myself "this
is a younger man's work!" In this clay/rock hard-packed soil it takes a
long, long time to dig out very little material. Or run into a boulder as
big as a barrel. I think this long a dig will take a gizmo or a julio.

TKS


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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On Sun, 28 Jun 2015 18:59:16 -0500, Texas Kingsnake
wrote:


Yes, I suspect wire is going to be cheapest part of this project. I
wanted
to run a closed circuit TV cable in the same ditch but everything I've
read
says it's going to pick up interference. I don't know enough
electronics to
know for sure, but shouldn't that TV cable with 4 layers of shielding be
immune to any RF radiating from a 110 volt AC line running along side
it? I
bought a thousand feet of it so I can afford to experiment. Didn't know
they made that in burial v. indoor stuff, either until I was looking a
few
minutes ago. Not sure why I would really want a second UF 14/2 cable
because the ground's pretty stable and too tough for critters to drill
through.


We have clay and loam etc. in my part of the country. It's good crop
growing soil. We keep the rocks in our heads. Critters sometimes chew
the insulation
off buried wires. The wires can corrode and actually rot through. It
happens
to both buried aluminum and copper. Lightning doesn't help either.
I did run across one time when a badger did chew through a single 14AWG
copper wire. I've found a couple times when lightning bored a hole into
the
ground to the wire and creating an open.
This is irrigation system wiring so the underground wires can run
hundreds
of feet. One low voltage wire we use will typically have a 9000 ft.
circuit.
The odds are greatly in your favor with a 40' run.

Are gophers or mice an issue in your area?


Not unless they recently mutated. Well, mice maybe but no one I know had
complained about rodents other than raccoons and they keep to the
once-a-week garbage bins, mostly. With my luck, my new trench will find
them
all. frown

Our county went to once-a-week to save money but in the summer, it's no
fun
to live downwind of a large family with lots of youngsters that consume
Pampers by the bale. Think they would get the message if I set up a huge
pedestal fan in the yard to blow the stench back their way? smile

TKS




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With regard to interference into the TV line from the 60 Hz 120V line, yes, that can happen. The 12V circuit mentioned for lighting is, unfortunately, 12V, 60 Hertz so there is still potential for interference, but it should be only 10% of the possibility of interference using 120V.
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Of course, rigid drain pipes or conduit aren't always flexible like
electrical cables.


Nor entirely practical. My old phone line goes through a PVC pipe.
Problem is, water gets into the pipe and when Winter time comes 'round
and there goes my landline. I hadda run a above ground line, instead.
Sometimes, still gets wet and drops out, but at least I can access it and
fix it when it does.


You probably just need cable rated for underground use. I asked our phone
company what wire to use and they gave me a couple hundred feet for free.
Really surprised me.

If your original wires were in PVC conduit, it should be a simple matter to
pull in new cable as you pull out the old.

Of course, I now get my phone service through our cable internet, and the
individual phones are wireless. We don't even use the old phone wiring
anymore.

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com

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We usually start out with a straight line from the source to the
destination. Then we alter that route as needed to work around buried
boulders. The end result is usually more serpentine than straight
line.


That means it's not likely I'll be able to use PVC conduit although I
didn't have plans to. It sounded like a good idea but I don't see
having to rewire it during my lifetime.


It's fairly easy to add elbows to work around obstacles, but they do make
flexible conduit also.

Of course, there's no need for conduit if you use the proper cable and
bury it deep enough. Conduit is mostly for added protection and/or to
make changes easier in the future.

Of course, rigid drain pipes or conduit aren't always flexible like
electrical cables. If I absolutely can't find a way to reroute the
trench around a rock I have resorted to drilling and chipping away at
the rock to get the necessary clearance. Thankfully, I've only had to
do that once or twice in the last 25 years.


I would hate to have done it once.


In my case I was running a 4" drain line to direct water away from our
driveway. The pipe is rigid, straight, and had to have the proper slope
for drainage. I was also working my way around some trees, tunneling
under some large roots.

I didn't have too much trouble till I reached a spot where two huge
boulders (about 4 feet across each) were touching each other under
ground. Thankfully, my planned route went right between the boulders so I
simply busted a bit off the side of each boulder so the 4" drain pipe
would fit through. A lot of work, but everything worked out well in the
end.

I also had to split pieces off several large boulders (larger than my
car) last year so I could build a retaining wall. Our pump house is up on
that hill, so digging the rocks out was not an option. I've gotten fairly
good with a rotary hammer and feathers/wedges.

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com
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FWIW, I am using underground rated UF-14/2 cable that will be
connected to a GFCI to run some new outdoor lights. A juvenile
delinquent has moved in next door and I want to put up some motion
detector lights and maybe some sort of camera to catch him at work (I
looked out the window one day to see him tossing trash in my yard).


You might want to look into low voltage lighting. You could run the wire
right on top of the ground and cover it with mulch or something if you
really don't want to dig down. Of course, burying it a few inches would
still be a smart idea.

Alternatively, you could just install battery powered LED lights and not
worry about cables at all. You would need to swap batteries occasionally,
but if you used rechargeables it wouldn't be expensive.

Anthony Watson
www.mountainsoftware.com
www.watsondiy.com
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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On 6/28/2015 11:14 AM, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 11:08:41 AM UTC-4, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 6/28/2015 10:45 AM, Texas Kingsnake wrote:
Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?

As directed by the local building code people.


That's true, what I cited is for NEC which is generally followed,
probably valid for TX, but locals always have the final say.


I don't have a lot of experience with NEC, but
my gut sense is following NEC will result in a
safe and reasonable result, in most cases.

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..
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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 5:26:33 PM UTC-4, Texas Kingsnake wrote:
"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 12:47:08 PM UTC-4, notbob wrote:
On 2015-06-28, HerHusband wrote:

Of course, rigid drain pipes or conduit aren't always flexible like
electrical cables.

Nor entirely practical. My old phone line goes through a PVC pipe.
Problem is, water gets into the pipe and when Winter time comes 'round
and there goes my landline. I hadda run a above ground line, instead.
Sometimes, still gets wet and drops out, but at least I can access it

and
fix it when it does.

BTW, one the few times WD40 is actaully helpful.

nb


Sounds like the problem there is not using wires rated for wet locations.
All PVC underground winds up with some moisture and water in it.


I agree but I wonder where the moisture comes from? Condensation? Leaks at
the entry/exit points from the ground?


Yes and yes.

Well glued PVC *should* be
waterproof, should it not?


Yes, PVC leaking is rarely the problem.

From what I've read about UF wire, direct burial
should be fine. I just wish I could get away with direct burial of the
juvie living next door that's caused this need for better perimeter
lighting. wicked smile

TKS


I know what you mean....
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On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 5:26:31 PM UTC-4, Texas Kingsnake wrote:
"HerHusband" wrote in message
...
Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?


24" in open areas, it can be less if it goes under concrete, etc.


Best way to do it might be a day laborer. You could rent
a small walk behind ditch witch type gizom, depending on what's
available in your area. HD might rent them. How practical that
is depends on the cost and what you have to move it.


The type of soil makes a difference too. We have lots of rocks in our
ground, everything from a couple inches across up to several feet across.

A
ditch witch digger would be worthless here.


Oh boy. That might put the kibosh on the digger. Rock'r'Us if you know
what I mean.

We usually start out with a straight line from the source to the
destination. Then we alter that route as needed to work around buried
boulders. The end result is usually more serpentine than straight line.


That means it's not likely I'll be able to use PVC conduit although I didn't
have plans to. It sounded like a good idea but I don't see having to rewire
it during my lifetime.

The first trench we dug for our incoming power line was in the rockiest
part of our property. By the time we dug around all the boulders to try

and
find a way through the various rocks, we had a crater about 8 feet across.
Eventually we did find a route through the rocks though. Thankfully, most
other trenches we have dug have been less problematic.


I have been considering solar-powered lightning instead of running a cable
but I have yet to see the solar powered light that I thought was worth a
tinker's damn.

I hired a backhoe once to dig a trench for us. He didn't fare much better
than we did with shovels. Since then we've just grabbed a shovel and
started digging.


I thought about the backhoe and just hiring an excavation company to do the
job. Someone said if I was flexible about when they did it, I could save a
lot of money. Not sure if that is true but I guess they might have
unplanned down time they'd like to fill by digging a hole for me.


A backhoe is going to create a hell of mess compared to a ditchwitch,
just to lay cable or conduit. But it depends on the area, if it's
lawn or just dirt, etc.



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On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 2:55:48 PM UTC-4, Texas Kingsnake wrote:
"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 10:45:54 AM UTC-4, Texas Kingsnake wrote:
Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?


24" in open areas, it can be less if it goes under concrete, etc.

Best way to do it might be a day laborer. You could rent
a small walk behind ditch witch type gizom, depending on what's
available in your area. HD might rent them. How practical that
is depends on the cost and what you have to move it.


Thanks for the info. I have been looking at something called a "ditch
witch" for rental but it's expensive and like you said it is not easily
transportable. I am also worried what happens if I hit a rock using a
rented tool like that. How much could I be stuck for in a repair bill if I
wreck the cutter? Can you buy insurance from the rental places just in
case? I've never rented a tool in my life so I really don't know what's
involved.

TKS


I've rented many tools and have never been offered an insurance plan.
If you break it, you have to pay to fix it. And your concern is valid.
I would think they are pretty tough and a typical rock isn't going to
bust it, but depending on how many you have, who knows.... And if you
bust it, you're at a disadvantage. The rental company is goind to fix
it and come up with the repair price. If it's unreasonable, you can
dispute it, take them to small claims, etc, but it could become a hassle.
I've never had that experience. Only once when renting a slice seeder
from HD, the guy accused me of not cleaning it off and wanted to charge
me $25 extra. I had washed it off, I just somehow missed one clump of
dirt on the bottom. I had to get a manager over and then they relented.
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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On Sun, 28 Jun 2015 21:01:51 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

With regard to interference into the TV line from the 60 Hz 120V line, yes, that can happen. The 12V circuit mentioned for lighting is, unfortunately, 12V, 60 Hertz so there is still potential for interference, but it should be only 10% of the possibility of interference using 120V.

The 12 volt circuit is GENERALLY AC but there is nothing saying it
cannot be DC, and 12 volt sis a lot less than 10% as likely to cause
interference.
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"HerHusband" wrote in message
...
Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?


24" in open areas, it can be less if it goes under concrete, etc.


Best way to do it might be a day laborer. You could rent
a small walk behind ditch witch type gizom, depending on what's
available in your area. HD might rent them. How practical that
is depends on the cost and what you have to move it.


The type of soil makes a difference too. We have lots of rocks in our
ground, everything from a couple inches across up to several feet across.
A
ditch witch digger would be worthless here.

We usually start out with a straight line from the source to the
destination. Then we alter that route as needed to work around buried
boulders. The end result is usually more serpentine than straight line.

The first trench we dug for our incoming power line was in the rockiest
part of our property. By the time we dug around all the boulders to try
and
find a way through the various rocks, we had a crater about 8 feet across.
Eventually we did find a route through the rocks though. Thankfully, most
other trenches we have dug have been less problematic.

I hired a backhoe once to dig a trench for us. He didn't fare much better
than we did with shovels. Since then we've just grabbed a shovel and
started digging.

Of course, rigid drain pipes or conduit aren't always flexible like
electrical cables. If I absolutely can't find a way to reroute the trench
around a rock I have resorted to drilling and chipping away at the rock to
get the necessary clearance. Thankfully, I've only had to do that once or
twice in the last 25 years.


For underground work where you have to weave around rocks, use polyethylene
water pipe to pull the wires through, it will bend around obstructions and
keep the water out. Use shark bite type exterior fittings to connect and
join the pipe to avoid reducing the internal diameter that push-in fittings
will do. You won't have to dig so deep either.

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