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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On Monday, June 29, 2015 at 9:14:50 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2015 21:08:01 -0400, "EXT"
wrote:


"HerHusband" wrote in message
. ..
Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?

24" in open areas, it can be less if it goes under concrete, etc.

Best way to do it might be a day laborer. You could rent
a small walk behind ditch witch type gizom, depending on what's
available in your area. HD might rent them. How practical that
is depends on the cost and what you have to move it.

The type of soil makes a difference too. We have lots of rocks in our
ground, everything from a couple inches across up to several feet across.
A
ditch witch digger would be worthless here.

We usually start out with a straight line from the source to the
destination. Then we alter that route as needed to work around buried
boulders. The end result is usually more serpentine than straight line..

The first trench we dug for our incoming power line was in the rockiest
part of our property. By the time we dug around all the boulders to try
and
find a way through the various rocks, we had a crater about 8 feet across.
Eventually we did find a route through the rocks though. Thankfully, most
other trenches we have dug have been less problematic.

I hired a backhoe once to dig a trench for us. He didn't fare much better
than we did with shovels. Since then we've just grabbed a shovel and
started digging.

Of course, rigid drain pipes or conduit aren't always flexible like
electrical cables. If I absolutely can't find a way to reroute the trench
around a rock I have resorted to drilling and chipping away at the rock to
get the necessary clearance. Thankfully, I've only had to do that once or
twice in the last 25 years.


For underground work where you have to weave around rocks, use polyethylene
water pipe to pull the wires through, it will bend around obstructions and
keep the water out. Use shark bite type exterior fittings to connect and
join the pipe to avoid reducing the internal diameter that push-in fittings
will do. You won't have to dig so deep either.


If you are not getting this inspected you just have to dig it deep
enough to avoid being hit by the lawn mower but it isn't "legal" (nor
is the water pipe)


The last time I ran an underground conduit, it was Schedule 80 PVC electrical conduit. It was for a friend who had a garage apartment behind his home and we buried 2" Schedule 80 one foot deep and glued elbows plus LB's on both ends. We ran cat 5, 75 ohm coax, alarm and telephone wires in the conduit. I was across a driveway area in his yard and had vehicles rolling over and parked on top of it. The conduit has never leaked. Oh yea, it was a 35 foot run. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle PVC Monster
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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On Mon, 29 Jun 2015 20:33:06 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:
nd parked on top of it. The conduit has never leaked.
Oh yea, it was a 35 foot run. ^_^


How do you get the wire in the long conduit without it getting stuck
somewhere in the middle?

--
Maggie
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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

A steel wire called an electricians snake is used to pull wires through pipes.
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On 28 Jun 2015 16:47:03 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2015-06-28, HerHusband wrote:

Of course, rigid drain pipes or conduit aren't always flexible like
electrical cables.


Nor entirely practical. My old phone line goes through a PVC pipe.
Problem is, water gets into the pipe and when Winter time comes 'round
and there goes my landline.


Wow, if water kills your phone line, it must be really hard on DSL on
the same line.

I have about 20 feet of my phone line, mostly 4-conductor round while
wire, open to the rain, and maybe that's what's been causing internet
problems.

D'ya think?

I hadda run a above ground line, instead.
Sometimes, still gets wet and drops out, but at least I can access it and
fix it when it does.

BTW, one the few times WD40 is actaully helpful.

nb


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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On Monday, June 29, 2015 at 10:47:41 PM UTC-5, Muggles wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jun 2015 20:33:06 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:
nd parked on top of it. The conduit has never leaked.
Oh yea, it was a 35 foot run. ^_^


How do you get the wire in the long conduit without it getting stuck
somewhere in the middle?

--
Maggie


The easiest way I've developed is to tie a piece if soft open cell foam to a poly pull string and blast it through the conduit with compressed air or CO2.
A shop vac can be used to pull the foam and string through the conduit. CO2 is good to use in the field when there is no power or source of compressed air. When I worked on a construction project running high voltage cables in 4" conduit, me and the crew tied a rag to a pull rope and used the air compressor, made to run jackhammers, to blow the rag and rope through the conduit. My brother was on the other end and said the rag and pull rope shot 10 feet into the air as it exited the conduit elbow. There is also steel or fiberglass fish tapes that are threaded through a conduit and the wires can tied to it and pulled through. Whenever I pulled wire through a conduit, I always left a pull string in the conduit with the wire. This makes for easy additions of wire or cable. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Wire Monster


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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On Mon, 29 Jun 2015 22:47:24 -0500, Muggles wrote:

On Mon, 29 Jun 2015 20:33:06 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:
nd parked on top of it. The conduit has never leaked.
Oh yea, it was a 35 foot run. ^_^


How do you get the wire in the long conduit without it getting stuck
somewhere in the middle?

In a 2 inch conduit????? They could run 4 times the cable through it
without trouble. You blow a pull string through first
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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 00:22:07 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:
How do you get the wire in the long conduit without
it getting stuck somewhere in the middle?



The easiest way I've developed is to tie a piece if soft
open cell foam to a poly pull string and blast it
through the conduit with compressed air or CO2.
A shop vac can be used to pull the foam and string
through the conduit. CO2 is good to use in the field
when there is no power or source of compressed air.
When I worked on a construction project running
high voltage cables in 4" conduit, me and the crew
tied a rag to a pull rope and used the air compressor,
made to run jackhammers, to blow the rag and rope
through the conduit. My brother was on the other
end and said the rag and pull rope shot 10 feet into
the air as it exited the conduit elbow.


Wow... That had to be cool to watch!

There is also steel or fiberglass fish tapes that are
threaded through a conduit and the wires can
tied to it and pulled through. Whenever I pulled wire
through a conduit, I always left a pull string in the
conduit with the wire. This makes for easy additions
of wire or cable. ^_^


So, you put 2 pull strings through the conduit, use one to pull the
wire you need initially, and save the 2nd pull string for later in
case you need it?

I guess it's not common for those pull strings to get stuck when
being blown through?

--
Maggie
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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 07:09:27 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:
Monster said the same thing. I just picture it
getting stuck because of elbows in the conduit.
I've never seen it done before. Was curious.



It depends on how many elbows and how long the
run. I think code

A lot of it comes down to common sense and
experience.


Thanks for the info. Learned something new!

--
Maggie


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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

In ,
Texas Kingsnake typed:
"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 11:08:20 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 10:45:54 AM UTC-4, Texas Kingsnake
wrote:
Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?

24" in open areas, it can be less if it goes under concrete, etc.


Let me correct that. I just looked at the code to make sure
and above is true for direct burial cable. If you use pvc
conduit, it's 18". And there is an exception for branch circuits
of 20A or less that are GFCI protected, in which case it's 12"
regardless if it's direct burial or conduit.


Thanks for the update. Depth will make a serious difference in how
hard it will be to dig the trench. I am thinking I will get the guy
who butchered my bricks to dig the ditch for free instead of my suing
him. How hard could THAT be not to eff up?


Seriously? You are joking, right? If you are serious, my vote is don't do
it and stop trying to work anything out even deal with that guy. And, save
yourself the trouble of even thinking about suing him to get your money
back. He has no money. You will never see that money again even if you win
a lawsuit.



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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On Tue, 30 Jun 2015 10:46:02 -0400, "TomR" wrote:

Thanks for the update. Depth will make a serious difference in how
hard it will be to dig the trench. I am thinking I will get the guy
who butchered my bricks to dig the ditch for free instead of my suing
him. How hard could THAT be not to eff up?


Seriously? You are joking, right? If you are serious, my vote is don't do
it and stop trying to work anything out even deal with that guy. And, save
yourself the trouble of even thinking about suing him to get your money
back. He has no money. You will never see that money again even if you win
a lawsuit.



....but the guy could bring his wife and child to the job site. They
could all have a joyful fellowship.
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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On Tuesday, June 30, 2015 at 10:44:30 AM UTC-4, TomR wrote:
In ,
Texas Kingsnake typed:
"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 11:08:20 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 10:45:54 AM UTC-4, Texas Kingsnake
wrote:
Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?

24" in open areas, it can be less if it goes under concrete, etc.


Let me correct that. I just looked at the code to make sure
and above is true for direct burial cable. If you use pvc
conduit, it's 18". And there is an exception for branch circuits
of 20A or less that are GFCI protected, in which case it's 12"
regardless if it's direct burial or conduit.


Thanks for the update. Depth will make a serious difference in how
hard it will be to dig the trench. I am thinking I will get the guy
who butchered my bricks to dig the ditch for free instead of my suing
him. How hard could THAT be not to eff up?


Seriously? You are joking, right? If you are serious, my vote is don't do
it and stop trying to work anything out even deal with that guy. And, save
yourself the trouble of even thinking about suing him to get your money
back. He has no money. You will never see that money again even if you win
a lawsuit.


That's a good point. Winning would probably be easy. Collecting
is a whole different story.
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Texas Kingsnake posted for all of us...



"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 11:08:20 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 10:45:54 AM UTC-4, Texas Kingsnake wrote:
Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?

24" in open areas, it can be less if it goes under concrete, etc.


Let me correct that. I just looked at the code to make sure
and above is true for direct burial cable. If you use pvc
conduit, it's 18". And there is an exception for branch circuits
of 20A or less that are GFCI protected, in which case it's 12"
regardless if it's direct burial or conduit.


Thanks for the update. Depth will make a serious difference in how hard it
will be to dig the trench. I am thinking I will get the guy who butchered
my bricks to dig the ditch for free instead of my suing him. How hard could
THAT be not to eff up?

FWIW, I am using underground rated UF-14/2 cable that will be connected to a
GFCI to run some new outdoor lights. A juvenile delinquent has moved in
next door and I want to put up some motion detector lights and maybe some
sort of camera to catch him at work (I looked out the window one day to see
him tossing trash in my yard).

I was considering doing the work myself but I have no experience with
outside wiring or how to waterproof it so I may just dig the ditches and let
a licensed electrician do the hook-ups.

TKS


You can't put the electric and CCTV wires in the same conduit.

--
Tekkie *Please post a follow-up*
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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires Always room for...

Texas Kingsnake posted for all of us...



wrote in message
...
On 28 Jun 2015 16:47:03 GMT, notbob wrote:

On 2015-06-28, HerHusband wrote:

Of course, rigid drain pipes or conduit aren't always flexible like
electrical cables.

Nor entirely practical. My old phone line goes through a PVC pipe.
Problem is, water gets into the pipe and when Winter time comes 'round
and there goes my landline. I hadda run a above ground line, instead.
Sometimes, still gets wet and drops out, but at least I can access it and
fix it when it does.

BTW, one the few times WD40 is actaully helpful.

nb


You just used the wrong wire. Anything underground is a wet location,
the pipe WILL fill up with water. If you used the "flooded" phone
wire, you would have been fine.


Is that the stuff where the insulation is actually some gel goo that keeps
the water out?

TKS


Yup, like clear jelly...

--
Tekkie *Please post a follow-up*
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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 3:30:42 PM UTC-5, Tekkie® wrote:
Texas Kingsnake posted for all of us...



"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 11:08:20 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 10:45:54 AM UTC-4, Texas Kingsnake wrote:
Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?

24" in open areas, it can be less if it goes under concrete, etc.


Let me correct that. I just looked at the code to make sure
and above is true for direct burial cable. If you use pvc
conduit, it's 18". And there is an exception for branch circuits
of 20A or less that are GFCI protected, in which case it's 12"
regardless if it's direct burial or conduit.


Thanks for the update. Depth will make a serious difference in how hard it
will be to dig the trench. I am thinking I will get the guy who butchered
my bricks to dig the ditch for free instead of my suing him. How hard could
THAT be not to eff up?

FWIW, I am using underground rated UF-14/2 cable that will be connected to a
GFCI to run some new outdoor lights. A juvenile delinquent has moved in
next door and I want to put up some motion detector lights and maybe some
sort of camera to catch him at work (I looked out the window one day to see
him tossing trash in my yard).

I was considering doing the work myself but I have no experience with
outside wiring or how to waterproof it so I may just dig the ditches and let
a licensed electrician do the hook-ups.

TKS


You can't put the electric and CCTV wires in the same conduit.

--


I've put shielded cable audio/video in the same conduit with power conductors quite a few times without a problem. I wouldn't do it with high voltage conductors but 240 volts and lower has never caused a problem except with electrical inspectors. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Cable Monster
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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On Thu, 2 Jul 2015 20:04:03 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 3:30:42 PM UTC-5, Tekkie® wrote:
Texas Kingsnake posted for all of us...



"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 11:08:20 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 10:45:54 AM UTC-4, Texas Kingsnake wrote:
Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?

24" in open areas, it can be less if it goes under concrete, etc.


Let me correct that. I just looked at the code to make sure
and above is true for direct burial cable. If you use pvc
conduit, it's 18". And there is an exception for branch circuits
of 20A or less that are GFCI protected, in which case it's 12"
regardless if it's direct burial or conduit.

Thanks for the update. Depth will make a serious difference in how hard it
will be to dig the trench. I am thinking I will get the guy who butchered
my bricks to dig the ditch for free instead of my suing him. How hard could
THAT be not to eff up?

FWIW, I am using underground rated UF-14/2 cable that will be connected to a
GFCI to run some new outdoor lights. A juvenile delinquent has moved in
next door and I want to put up some motion detector lights and maybe some
sort of camera to catch him at work (I looked out the window one day to see
him tossing trash in my yard).

I was considering doing the work myself but I have no experience with
outside wiring or how to waterproof it so I may just dig the ditches and let
a licensed electrician do the hook-ups.

TKS


You can't put the electric and CCTV wires in the same conduit.

--


I've put shielded cable audio/video in the same conduit with power conductors quite a few times without a problem. I wouldn't do it with high voltage conductors but 240 volts and lower has never caused a problem except with electrical inspectors. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Cable Monster

Not a problem, but still NOT LEGAL and not to be recommended.
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Default Best way to dig a 40' long trench to bury wires

On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 2:59:45 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Thu, 2 Jul 2015 20:04:03 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:

On Thursday, July 2, 2015 at 3:30:42 PM UTC-5, Tekkie® wrote:
Texas Kingsnake posted for all of us...



"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 11:08:20 AM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 10:45:54 AM UTC-4, Texas Kingsnake wrote:
Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?

24" in open areas, it can be less if it goes under concrete, etc..


Let me correct that. I just looked at the code to make sure
and above is true for direct burial cable. If you use pvc
conduit, it's 18". And there is an exception for branch circuits
of 20A or less that are GFCI protected, in which case it's 12"
regardless if it's direct burial or conduit.

Thanks for the update. Depth will make a serious difference in how hard it
will be to dig the trench. I am thinking I will get the guy who butchered
my bricks to dig the ditch for free instead of my suing him. How hard could
THAT be not to eff up?

FWIW, I am using underground rated UF-14/2 cable that will be connected to a
GFCI to run some new outdoor lights. A juvenile delinquent has moved in
next door and I want to put up some motion detector lights and maybe some
sort of camera to catch him at work (I looked out the window one day to see
him tossing trash in my yard).

I was considering doing the work myself but I have no experience with
outside wiring or how to waterproof it so I may just dig the ditches and let
a licensed electrician do the hook-ups.

TKS

You can't put the electric and CCTV wires in the same conduit.

--


I've put shielded cable audio/video in the same conduit with power conductors quite a few times without a problem. I wouldn't do it with high voltage conductors but 240 volts and lower has never caused a problem except with electrical inspectors. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Cable Monster

Not a problem, but still NOT LEGAL and not to be recommended.


On a construction or remodel job me or whomever had the electrical contract would run separate conduits for power and low voltage wiring. I'd spec 3/4 EMT for phone and network drops. The phone company wants a minimum 3/4" conduit and sometimes larger for a service entrance. Heck, before I became too ill to work anymore, the computer networks I installed were handling both data and VoIP phone service. One Cat6 Ethernet cable per desk was all that was needed for phone and computer. Of course I would often split one ethernet cable to get two network feeds or pull out an unused pair for an analog or single pair multi line phone system like a Nortel. Dammit I miss work, the more complicated the job, the more fun I had. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Cable Monster


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On Saturday, July 4, 2015 at 10:44:02 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sat, 4 Jul 2015 04:56:29 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster
wrote:



On a construction or remodel job me or whomever had the electrical contract would run separate conduits for power and low voltage wiring. I'd spec 3/4 EMT for phone and network drops. The phone company wants a minimum 3/4" conduit and sometimes larger for a service entrance. Heck, before I became too ill to work anymore, the computer networks I installed were handling both data and VoIP phone service. One Cat6 Ethernet cable per desk was all that was needed for phone and computer. Of course I would often split one ethernet cable to get two network feeds or pull out an unused pair for an analog or single pair multi line phone system like a Nortel. Dammit I miss work, the more complicated the job, the more fun I had. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Cable Monster


BICSI doesn't think much of running analog phones on ethernet cables
or splitting it out to two 10/100s.
The gigabit internet stopped all of that anyway because they use all 4
pair.

The NEC goes both ways on power and low voltage sharing cabinets and
raceways.
Generally it is prohibited except when both are part of the same
system. Cable jackets ARE "separation". It is the termination that is
the problem. Then you can have the question, is this a raceway (from
box to box) or a duct. (open at both ends)
It is specifically allowed if both cables are MC (or even just the LV
cable)
The NEC is fairly inconsistent around low voltage wiring because the
various CMPs don't seem to compare notes. I haven't really chewed on
the 2011 and 2014 enough to see if they fixed the in congruencies.
They are buried in the minutiae


Hell, we did whatever would make the inspectors happy. The network cable splitting was not done on new construction but when there was a service call or addition made long after the facility was built. It's been more expedient to pull out a pair on an existing cable rather than disrupt operations just to pull in one phone wire. Customers are interested in two things, will it work and what's the cost. Of course there's that third consideration, how much trouble will it be to do the job. ^_^

[8~{} Uncle Practical Monster
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On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 9:45:54 AM UTC-5, Texas Kingsnake wrote:
Any ideas? How deep do 110 volt wires need to be buried?


24" unless it is GFCI protected, then you can go 12". If you put it in a conduit you can go 18".

http://www.xwalk.com/images/Table_30...over_Reqts.pdf


http://www.iwireelectricservice.com/
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On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 2:26:33 PM UTC-7, Texas Kingsnake wrote:
"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Sunday, June 28, 2015 at 12:47:08 PM UTC-4, notbob wrote:
On 2015-06-28, HerHusband wrote:

Of course, rigid drain pipes or conduit aren't always flexible like
electrical cables.

Nor entirely practical. My old phone line goes through a PVC pipe.
Problem is, water gets into the pipe and when Winter time comes 'round
and there goes my landline. I hadda run a above ground line, instead.
Sometimes, still gets wet and drops out, but at least I can access it

and
fix it when it does.

BTW, one the few times WD40 is actaully helpful.

nb


Sounds like the problem there is not using wires rated for wet locations.
All PVC underground winds up with some moisture and water in it.


I agree but I wonder where the moisture comes from? Condensation? Leaks at
the entry/exit points from the ground? Well glued PVC *should* be
waterproof, should it not? From what I've read about UF wire, direct burial
should be fine. I just wish I could get away with direct burial of the
juvie living next door that's caused this need for better perimeter
lighting. wicked smile

TKS


" .... I just wish I could get away with direct burial of the
juvie living next door..." Do you have rocky soil? ;-)

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