On Monday, June 1, 2015 at 6:30:24 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 6/1/2015 1:01 PM, micky wrote:
On Mon, 01 Jun 2015 11:57:08 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 01 Jun 2015 04:03:55 -0400, micky
wrote:

On Mon, 01 Jun 2015 02:36:30 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 01 Jun 2015 02:59:06 -0400, micky
wrote:


I have to tell you about when my mother moved to western Pa. in 1945,
from Indianapolis. While NYC and probably some other places had dial
phones already, we didn't. So my mother would tell the operator,
OLiver 4-1383 please, or Oliver 4-3343 please,and after a couple days or
weeks, the operator told her, You don't have to say Oliver 4, Ma'am..
They're all Oliver 4.

I remember when I came home and they had installed dials. They changed
the phone in my parents' bedroom entirely, but the wall phone in the
idtchen they took the top off, connected a couple wires, and attached a
top with a dial.

One time I called my best friend and I heard click click, click click
click. I hung up and our phone rang. He had been calling me. The
phone didn't ring at his end when I called.

When I was REAL young, my parents phone was on a "party line". Sometimes
I'd pick up the phone, and the other party would be talking. I still
dont understand how that worked. I assume the other party had a
different phone number.

Yes, somehow they would have a different ring, I think. You were
supposed to only answer your own ring.

When we moved back to Indy and my mother signed up for the phone, the
customer service person said she could get a party line with no other
party on it, so she'd save money with no inconvenience. I'm sure we were
not the only ones who got that.. And I think we had that for the whole
8 years we were there. But maybe we had to change to a private line
eventually and she didnt' mention it.

My guess is that they ran two phone numbers thru
the same wires to save on wires. My parents were glad when they got rid
of the party line, but I think they had to pay a little more.


That is what the yellow and green were in the old 3 wire JK cable. It
is selective ringing.
One party was on the red/green, one on the red/ yellow.

When I first learned the two wires to the phone were called the tip and
the ring, I assumed the ring was coming in on the ring, as in your
example just above, the green or the yellow. Is there any truth to
that? Is that related to the name ring?

Because when I was 60 y.o. I finally realized the ring was the second
conductor on a phone plug, behind the tip. I know that's valid
nomenclature, but it doesn't prove ring wasn't also used for the wire
the ring came in on. ????



I heard that tip and ring were refer to the plugs the
operators used. Tip was the tip of the plug, and ring
wss connected to the back of the 1/4 inch phono plug.

Nothing to do with phone ringers.

-
The "tip" is the green wire and positive polarity and "ring" is the red wire and negative polarity. The phone system is has a positive ground. I know the stuff because I've serviced and installed phone systems but there is a load of good information on The Interweb. I've come across some good sites that explain the technical details of the operation of phones and the phone system in simple easy to understand language with illustrations. 8-)

[8~{} Uncle Phone Monster

On Monday, June 1, 2015 at 6:30:24 PM UTC-5, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 6/1/2015 1:01 PM, micky wrote:
On Mon, 01 Jun 2015 11:57:08 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 01 Jun 2015 04:03:55 -0400, micky
wrote:

On Mon, 01 Jun 2015 02:36:30 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 01 Jun 2015 02:59:06 -0400, micky
wrote:


I have to tell you about when my mother moved to western Pa. in 1945,
from Indianapolis. While NYC and probably some other places had dial
phones already, we didn't. So my mother would tell the operator,
OLiver 4-1383 please, or Oliver 4-3343 please,and after a couple days or
weeks, the operator told her, You don't have to say Oliver 4, Ma'am..
They're all Oliver 4.

I remember when I came home and they had installed dials. They changed
the phone in my parents' bedroom entirely, but the wall phone in the
idtchen they took the top off, connected a couple wires, and attached a
top with a dial.

One time I called my best friend and I heard click click, click click
click. I hung up and our phone rang. He had been calling me. The
phone didn't ring at his end when I called.

When I was REAL young, my parents phone was on a "party line". Sometimes
I'd pick up the phone, and the other party would be talking. I still
dont understand how that worked. I assume the other party had a
different phone number.

Yes, somehow they would have a different ring, I think. You were
supposed to only answer your own ring.

When we moved back to Indy and my mother signed up for the phone, the
customer service person said she could get a party line with no other
party on it, so she'd save money with no inconvenience. I'm sure we were
not the only ones who got that.. And I think we had that for the whole
8 years we were there. But maybe we had to change to a private line
eventually and she didnt' mention it.

My guess is that they ran two phone numbers thru
the same wires to save on wires. My parents were glad when they got rid
of the party line, but I think they had to pay a little more.


That is what the yellow and green were in the old 3 wire JK cable. It
is selective ringing.
One party was on the red/green, one on the red/ yellow.

When I first learned the two wires to the phone were called the tip and
the ring, I assumed the ring was coming in on the ring, as in your
example just above, the green or the yellow. Is there any truth to
that? Is that related to the name ring?

Because when I was 60 y.o. I finally realized the ring was the second
conductor on a phone plug, behind the tip. I know that's valid
nomenclature, but it doesn't prove ring wasn't also used for the wire
the ring came in on. ????



I heard that tip and ring were refer to the plugs the
operators used. Tip was the tip of the plug, and ring
wss connected to the back of the 1/4 inch phono plug.

Nothing to do with phone ringers.

-
The phone plug is referred to as a TRS type,"Tip Ring Sleeve" The tip is the green wire, the ring is the red wire and the sleeve is the chassis ground.. The is a wealth of information on The Web about the phone system circuitry and you should check it out. 8-)

[8~{} Uncle Ring Monster

There is something to be said for using names as preefixes. I still remember my grandparents phone number in Woodside - Queens, NYC, 65 years later. It was HAvemeyer 9-3665. Don't know what area code(s) are in use in that part of NYC, but it could be fun to call the number and ask to speak with themg.

Our prefix in Chicago was Dorchester 3. I recall my mother having to drop a nickel or a slug in the phone box at home. Each month a guy would come to collect the money, including real money for the slugs. This would have been in the 40's.

In the 60's I was in charge of making ski group reservations each year at Boyne Mountain, MI. The lodge phone number was 10 and I had to go through the long distance operator to reach it.

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
On 06/01/2015 07:48 AM, Robert Green wrote:

stuff snipped

Before anyone has a canary, there are still places that do things
the old way and you can dial a neighbor with only 7 digits.

The UK used to have exchange names -- at least in the London area -- of
which the first *three* letters were dialed.

Right after I pressed SEND I realized a more robust disclaimer was probably
necessary. Especially when I started reading in Wikipedia how the switched
telephone network grew in fits and starts.

Much more chilling is how the Internet grew and how basically unsafe the
underlying transport protocols really a

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/bus...curity-part-2/

In our part of the USA, all numbers within our own area code can now be
dialed without the area code, but it was not always that way.

That's the first case of regression I've ever heard of. Are you POTS, cell,
internet or what?

With only 7-digit "subscriber numbers" in a country with the population
of the USA, there is no way of assigning area codes logically -- at
least without dumping the old 0-or-1-in-the-middle ones, and probably
not even then. Australia has 8-digit "subscriber numbers," and the
initial digits of area codes (apart from the leading 0 for in-country
calls) indicate the State (or group of States), plus one specifically
for all cell phones irrespective of location.

The people who get to look at someone else's work before designing their own
usually get a leg up. (-: I've been on both sides of that equation.

With 8-digit "subscriber numbers" the USA could have area codes with the
initial digit denoting the region and further digits indicating the
State or subset of the region or State. Maybe special area codes within
each region for cell phones -- or maybe a set of area codes for cell
phones irrespective of location.

I seem to recall a study that said while a large number of people can
remember 7 digit phone numbers, when you jump to 8, that large number
diminishes significantly.

The same rules hold true for voicemail menus and even on-screen menus. I
believe that voicemail menus begin to be a problem for many people after the
4th menu choice. These are all vague, age-tainted memories of a human
factors engineering course I took in the early 90's. I'm too lazy to look
them up today. The damn birds started in at 2:30 this morning. I suspect
it's a cat on the prowl because they were definitely moving from tree to
tree and squawking their little bird lungs out.

--
Bobby G.

On 06/02/2015 10:06 AM, Robert Green wrote:

In our part of the USA, all numbers within our own area code can now be
dialed without the area code, but it was not always that way.

That's the first case of regression I've ever heard of. Are you POTS, cell,
internet or what?

616 area code. Our number was originally an AT&T landline number, then
ported to Google Voice, which forwards to our "real" number (also 616
but given out only to family members). VOIP using an Obihai box. I don't
think we've needed to use the area code from our cell phones either --
also 616, T-Mobile.

With only 7-digit "subscriber numbers" in a country with the population
of the USA, there is no way of assigning area codes logically -- at
least without dumping the old 0-or-1-in-the-middle ones, and probably
not even then. Australia has 8-digit "subscriber numbers," and the
initial digits of area codes (apart from the leading 0 for in-country
calls) indicate the State (or group of States), plus one specifically
for all cell phones irrespective of location.

The people who get to look at someone else's work before designing their own
usually get a leg up. (-: I've been on both sides of that equation.

With 8-digit "subscriber numbers" the USA could have area codes with the
initial digit denoting the region and further digits indicating the
State or subset of the region or State. Maybe special area codes within
each region for cell phones -- or maybe a set of area codes for cell
phones irrespective of location.

I seem to recall a study that said while a large number of people can
remember 7 digit phone numbers, when you jump to 8, that large number
diminishes significantly.

But if you have to remember a 3-digit area code as well, you already
have to remember a 10-digit number. And if 10-digit numbers are
sufficient for the population of the USA (which they are for now, at
least), perhaps one could switch to logically/geographically assigned
2-digit area codes and 8-digit "subscriber numbers."

It was interesting to find that although Australian phone numbers within
a given area code are xxxx-xxxx, people would speak them as xxx-xxx-xx
-- or was it xx-xxx-xxx?

Perce

On Mon, 01 Jun 2015 01:45:54 -0500, wrote:

When I was young, phone numbers has a WORD at the beginning.
If you're over 60, you'll probably remember this:

For example:

Hilltop5-5555 = hi5-5555 which is 445-5555
Spring2-5555 = sp2-5555 which is 772-5555
Worth8-5555 = wo8-5555 which is 968-5555
Orchid3-5555 = or3-5555 which is 673-5555
Victory1-5555 = vi1-5555 which is 841-5555
Tiger4-5555 = ti4-5555 which is 844-5555

These seemed to make it easier to remember phone numbers, and the words
were usually simple words that were easy to remember. The word was
assigned by the phone company. It seems they stopped doing this around
the mid 1960's. I wonder why they stopped?

Anyone know the reason?

Of course you can assign your own words. But no one will know what
you're talking about unless they are at least 60 years old.

For example,

762----- can be SOund2 or POny2 or SOuth2 ROund2, POlice2 etc.....
536----- can be LEmon6 or JElly6 or KEndra6 .... and so on....

If your number is 536-1234 Just tell your friends to call LEmon6-1234.


I suspect what happened was that operator placed calls were replace by
automatic dial calls. Once you automate it, it just a lot easier for
the designers, manufacturers, installers and repair folks to organize
all the mechanical stuff by using a straight numbering system.
Obviously you can convert your number back to letters if you want to.
Lots of people do convert part of it at least for their 1 - 800
numbers, like 1-800-328-7667 converts to 1-800-Eat-Poop . When I was
working for the AZ DOT I requested that my cell number end with 2368.

"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
On 06/02/2015 10:06 AM, Robert Green wrote:
stuff snipped
Are you POTS, cell, internet or what?

616 area code. Our number was originally an AT&T landline number, then
ported to Google Voice, which forwards to our "real" number (also 616
but given out only to family members). VOIP using an Obihai box. I don't
think we've needed to use the area code from our cell phones either --
also 616, T-Mobile.

That's a checkered past, so to speak!

I seem to recall a study that said while a large number of people can
remember 7 digit phone numbers, when you jump to 8, that large number
diminishes significantly.

But if you have to remember a 3-digit area code as well, you already
have to remember a 10-digit number.

It's not that clear cut. In my area there are 4 major area codes - 202,
703, 301 and 240. Those don't really count (memory wise) as 3 digits since
they're really one choice out of 4 possible codes in this area.

Admittedly in the whole universe of area codes it would be 3 extra digits to
remember, but practically those digits map into a prefix that people see as
a single token to remember. There was an awful lot of discussion about this
when the switch to full area code dialing first began.


It was interesting to find that although Australian phone numbers within
a given area code are xxxx-xxxx, people would speak them as xxx-xxx-xx
-- or was it xx-xxx-xxx?

A perfect example of tokenizing. They break the number into smaller
subgroups that are easier to remember as single tokens. Area codes are like
that and to some extent so are exchanges.

Lots of phones in the area are 937 or 881 exchanges so it works the same
way. You end up with both the area code and the exchange collapsed into
single tokens. I can think of a number of places that have the 937 code
which then tends to get thought of as a single token even though it's three
digits.

In college my roommates used to pick various words that could be dialed and
call up and say: Did you know your number spells DICKWAD (or some other
cuss word)? When they dialed the guy whose number turned out to spell
A$$HOLE (277-4053) he answered "Only if you use the number zero to mean the
letter O!"

--
Bobby G.

On Wednesday, June 3, 2015 at 3:34:31 AM UTC-4, Robert Green wrote:
"Percival P. Cassidy" wrote in message
...
On 06/02/2015 10:06 AM, Robert Green wrote:
stuff snipped
Are you POTS, cell, internet or what?

616 area code. Our number was originally an AT&T landline number, then
ported to Google Voice, which forwards to our "real" number (also 616
but given out only to family members). VOIP using an Obihai box. I don't
think we've needed to use the area code from our cell phones either --
also 616, T-Mobile.

That's a checkered past, so to speak!

I seem to recall a study that said while a large number of people can
remember 7 digit phone numbers, when you jump to 8, that large number
diminishes significantly.

But if you have to remember a 3-digit area code as well, you already
have to remember a 10-digit number.

It's not that clear cut. In my area there are 4 major area codes - 202,
703, 301 and 240. Those don't really count (memory wise) as 3 digits since
they're really one choice out of 4 possible codes in this area.

Admittedly in the whole universe of area codes it would be 3 extra digits to
remember, but practically those digits map into a prefix that people see as
a single token to remember. There was an awful lot of discussion about this
when the switch to full area code dialing first began.


It was interesting to find that although Australian phone numbers within
a given area code are xxxx-xxxx, people would speak them as xxx-xxx-xx
-- or was it xx-xxx-xxx?

A perfect example of tokenizing. They break the number into smaller
subgroups that are easier to remember as single tokens. Area codes are like
that and to some extent so are exchanges.

Lots of phones in the area are 937 or 881 exchanges so it works the same
way. You end up with both the area code and the exchange collapsed into
single tokens. I can think of a number of places that have the 937 code
which then tends to get thought of as a single token even though it's three
digits.

In college my roommates used to pick various words that could be dialed and
call up and say: Did you know your number spells DICKWAD (or some other
cuss word)? When they dialed the guy whose number turned out to spell
A$$HOLE (277-4053) he answered "Only if you use the number zero to mean the
letter O!"

--
Bobby G.

It maps into an easy token only if you recognize the area code
and connect it with the token. There are plenty of new area codes,
especially for cell phones, so that is dwindling. For example, IDK
most of the new cell phone area codes for NYC anymore. And then
with VOIP, the ability to port numbers, Google Voice redirecting calls, etc.
the association of the number to a geography is also diminishing.