A friend moved to a more rural area, to a new subdivision.

There are one or more parts of her plat we don't understand.

She and 4 neighbors live on a private road, which comes from a newly
built road. I guess this bigger road has been given to the county, but
she seems to share responsibility for maintaining the private road.
There is a little "bulge" in the public road at the end of it. Not as
big as a cul de sac, and barely big enough to make a u-turn in.

Even though her lot is basically 4-sided, the plat shows 5 bands, each
about 10 feet wide, going side-by-side down the private rood, to where
it meets the public road (which has a bulge at its end.) OTOH, if
one starts at the public road, each band ends when it reached the lot it
is attached to.


Each band is either 10.25', 11,04', or 10.02' for a total of 52.6 feet.
The private road is not that wide, so some of this land is off the road
and looks like it belongs to lot owners along the way.

Do I have to explain further, because I'm having trouble describing
this, or does some one here already know what I'm talking about?

Does she really own a strip of land reaching all the way to the bulge,
or do they all share the road and the plat just represents it that way?

A picture of the plat would make more sense than your description.

On Wed, 13 May 2015 20:15:37 -0700, micky wrote:

A friend moved to a more rural area, to a new subdivision.

There are one or more parts of her plat we don't understand.

She and 4 neighbors live on a private road, which comes from a newly
built road. I guess this bigger road has been given to the county, but
she seems to share responsibility for maintaining the private road.
There is a little "bulge" in the public road at the end of it. Not as
big as a cul de sac, and barely big enough to make a u-turn in.

Even though her lot is basically 4-sided, the plat shows 5 bands, each
about 10 feet wide, going side-by-side down the private rood, to where
it meets the public road (which has a bulge at its end.) OTOH, if
one starts at the public road, each band ends when it reached the lot it
is attached to.


Each band is either 10.25', 11,04', or 10.02' for a total of 52.6 feet.
The private road is not that wide, so some of this land is off the road
and looks like it belongs to lot owners along the way.

Do I have to explain further, because I'm having trouble describing
this, or does some one here already know what I'm talking about?

Does she really own a strip of land reaching all the way to the bulge,
or do they all share the road and the plat just represents it that way?

Here in AZ, rural area, EVERY road is private, similar plat plan showing
strips I can't build on. Turns 1 acre into 0.79 acre. Explains why when we
were looking at houses we kept finding weird lot areas.

It is my understanding from a neighbor who has combined 1 acrea with other
lots to make a single 6 acre lot that these lands were govt origin and
they defined strips along at least two side to be allocated for 'public
access' roadways.

Confirmed by thorough explanation from Zoning employees at County.

micky wrote:
A friend moved to a more rural area, to a new subdivision.

There are one or more parts of her plat we don't understand.

Some cut.


Does she really own a strip of land reaching all the way to the bulge,
or do they all share the road and the plat just represents it that way?


A trip down to the county courthouse might be the best bet. Plus
she'd see the history of the ground back to when it was first platted.

On 5/13/2015 11:15 PM, micky wrote:
A friend moved to a more rural area, to a new subdivision.

There are one or more parts of her plat we don't understand.

She and 4 neighbors live on a private road, which comes from a newly
built road. I guess this bigger road has been given to the county, but
she seems to share responsibility for maintaining the private road.
There is a little "bulge" in the public road at the end of it. Not as
big as a cul de sac, and barely big enough to make a u-turn in.

Even though her lot is basically 4-sided, the plat shows 5 bands, each
about 10 feet wide, going side-by-side down the private rood, to where
it meets the public road (which has a bulge at its end.) OTOH, if
one starts at the public road, each band ends when it reached the lot it
is attached to.


Each band is either 10.25', 11,04', or 10.02' for a total of 52.6 feet.
The private road is not that wide, so some of this land is off the road
and looks like it belongs to lot owners along the way.

Do I have to explain further, because I'm having trouble describing
this, or does some one here already know what I'm talking about?

Does she really own a strip of land reaching all the way to the bulge,
or do they all share the road and the plat just represents it that way?





Where I live is something like that. When we moved in, the road was
private and maintained by a maintenance corporation owned by the
community. Several lots were oddly shaped along the road, particularly
those at the entrance to the state road.

I've got a neighbor in back of me, outside our community, who has a pipe
shaped lot where the pipe stem runs ~700 ft from the main plot where the
house is for his drive to get to the state road.

On 5/13/2015 11:15 PM, micky wrote:
A friend moved to a more rural area, to a new subdivision.

There are one or more parts of her plat we don't understand.

She and 4 neighbors live on a private road, which comes from a newly
built road. I guess this bigger road has been given to the county, but
she seems to share responsibility for maintaining the private road.
There is a little "bulge" in the public road at the end of it. Not as
big as a cul de sac, and barely big enough to make a u-turn in.

Even though her lot is basically 4-sided, the plat shows 5 bands, each
about 10 feet wide, going side-by-side down the private rood, to where
it meets the public road (which has a bulge at its end.) OTOH, if
one starts at the public road, each band ends when it reached the lot it
is attached to.


Each band is either 10.25', 11,04', or 10.02' for a total of 52.6 feet.
The private road is not that wide, so some of this land is off the road
and looks like it belongs to lot owners along the way.

Do I have to explain further, because I'm having trouble describing
this, or does some one here already know what I'm talking about?

Does she really own a strip of land reaching all the way to the bulge,
or do they all share the road and the plat just represents it that way?


I am not sure I am following, but could you be looking at easements?
The lot owner owns the areas in question, but untility companies have
the right to those strips for underground pipes (gas, water) and
underground wires (cable, phone, power) and possibly even above ground
poles and wires.

Many jurisdictions require lots to have frontage on a public road.
What you describe gives everyone frontage (10 foot strip ) to that road.
Ivan Vegvary

On Wednesday, May 13, 2015 at 11:15:39 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
A friend moved to a more rural area, to a new subdivision.

There are one or more parts of her plat we don't understand.

She and 4 neighbors live on a private road, which comes from a newly
built road. I guess this bigger road has been given to the county, but
she seems to share responsibility for maintaining the private road.
There is a little "bulge" in the public road at the end of it. Not as
big as a cul de sac, and barely big enough to make a u-turn in.

Even though her lot is basically 4-sided, the plat shows 5 bands, each
about 10 feet wide, going side-by-side down the private rood, to where
it meets the public road (which has a bulge at its end.) OTOH, if
one starts at the public road, each band ends when it reached the lot it
is attached to.

Each band is either 10.25', 11,04', or 10.02' for a total of 52.6 feet.
The private road is not that wide, so some of this land is off the road
and looks like it belongs to lot owners along the way.

Do I have to explain further, because I'm having trouble describing
this, or does some one here already know what I'm talking about?

Does she really own a strip of land reaching all the way to the bulge,
or do they all share the road and the plat just represents it that way?

I don't see how anyone is going to give you an answer worth
anything without seeing it. It doesn't even seem to fit together, eg:

" Even though her lot is basically 4-sided, the plat shows 5 bands, each
about 10 feet wide, going side-by-side down the private rood, to where
it meets the public road (which has a bulge at its end.) "

What does her lot being 4 sided have to do with what's going on
down the private road that goes past other lots?. Seems to
me it would be irrelevant. Her lot could be totally irregular, have
7 sides, what would it matter if the question is about something
on the edge of the private road?

On Thu, 14 May 2015 08:09:12 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

On 5/13/2015 11:15 PM, micky wrote:
A friend moved to a more rural area, to a new subdivision.

There are one or more parts of her plat we don't understand.

She and 4 neighbors live on a private road, which comes from a newly
built road. I guess this bigger road has been given to the county, but
she seems to share responsibility for maintaining the private road.
There is a little "bulge" in the public road at the end of it. Not as
big as a cul de sac, and barely big enough to make a u-turn in.

Even though her lot is basically 4-sided, the plat shows 5 bands, each
about 10 feet wide, going side-by-side down the private rood, to where
it meets the public road (which has a bulge at its end.) OTOH, if
one starts at the public road, each band ends when it reached the lot it
is attached to.


Each band is either 10.25', 11,04', or 10.02' for a total of 52.6 feet.
The private road is not that wide, so some of this land is off the road
and looks like it belongs to lot owners along the way.

Do I have to explain further, because I'm having trouble describing
this, or does some one here already know what I'm talking about?

Does she really own a strip of land reaching all the way to the bulge,
or do they all share the road and the plat just represents it that way?





Where I live is something like that. When we moved in, the road was
private and maintained by a maintenance corporation owned by the
community. Several lots were oddly shaped along the road, particularly
those at the entrance to the state road.

I've got a neighbor in back of me, outside our community, who has a pipe
shaped lot where the pipe stem runs ~700 ft from the main plot where the
house is for his drive to get to the state road.

Yeah, that's it. So she really does own the land. I was going to say:
although of course it has to be used for the road, but I think the road
is no more than 20 feet wide and the pipe stems total 52 feet wide, she
owns 10 feet of one side of neighbor's yard, the side that abuts the
private road. Interesting, since he's trying to claim 3 feet of her
yard on the side where their two yards meet. Last fall he started
mowing it and just now he was about to plant bushes on it. She's
probably going to have to get a survey done. $1400, I think she said.

I'm sure her pipe-stem doesn't really help her, but I wanted us both to
understand the situation.

The plat refers to a separate document about maintaining the prviate
road, but the pipestems probably indicate how the cost is apportioned.
She has to pay 1/5 of the her 600 feet (only 300 of which is stem), her
neighbor to the right pays the same as she does plus 1/4 of his 300
additional feet. The next neighbor pays the same as #2 plus 1/3 of his
400 additional feet.... and the last one pays what the one to his left
does plus the all of his 100 feet. I've wondered about that in the
past and this is the only thing that is really fair.

Even though the plat shows 10 feet wide strips, in practice they
probably divide the width of the road by 5 where there are 5 lots using
it, or at least they bill it that way. Even if her 10 feet is all
covered by grass.

On Thu, 14 May 2015 08:41:39 -0400, Pat wrote:


On 5/13/2015 11:15 PM, micky wrote:
A friend moved to a more rural area, to a new subdivision.

There are one or more parts of her plat we don't understand.

She and 4 neighbors live on a private road, which comes from a newly
built road. I guess this bigger road has been given to the county, but
she seems to share responsibility for maintaining the private road.
There is a little "bulge" in the public road at the end of it. Not as
big as a cul de sac, and barely big enough to make a u-turn in.

Even though her lot is basically 4-sided, the plat shows 5 bands, each
about 10 feet wide, going side-by-side down the private rood, to where
it meets the public road (which has a bulge at its end.) OTOH, if
one starts at the public road, each band ends when it reached the lot it
is attached to.


Each band is either 10.25', 11,04', or 10.02' for a total of 52.6 feet.
The private road is not that wide, so some of this land is off the road
and looks like it belongs to lot owners along the way.

Do I have to explain further, because I'm having trouble describing
this, or does some one here already know what I'm talking about?

Does she really own a strip of land reaching all the way to the bulge,
or do they all share the road and the plat just represents it that way?


I am not sure I am following, but could you be looking at easements?
The lot owner owns the areas in question, but untility companies have
the right to those strips for underground pipes (gas, water) and
underground wires (cable, phone, power) and possibly even above ground
poles and wires.

Besides utility easements there also exist walkway, driveway, and
drainage easements, and though this plat doesn't mark any easements, not
even utilities**, either the other document about the road goes into the
driveway easement, or maybe it's in the deed, which I haven't read.

**The plat for my townhouse n'hood marks all of them, except I guess the
cable tv runs in the back of the houses and that's not mentioned on the
plat. I'm pretty sure they had cable tv when the project was planned,
about 1974. Right? Maybe they thought it would be in the front of the
houses where it's just called a utility easement, and what utilities are
not specified, or maybe they just forgot about cable. Anyhow, there is
also a 6' wide walkway easement in the back and the cable company
used/uses that space.

But no, I wasn't talking about strips for utilities.

Frank and Ivan have it right. Thanks anyhow.

On Thu, 14 May 2015 06:15:23 -0500, Dean Hoffman
wrote:

A trip down to the county courthouse might be the best bet. Plus
she'd see the history of the ground back to when it was first platted.

I found my Plat on the local county web site. Home built in ~1997.

What others are referring to as pipestem lots are called "flag lots" here in IL. the flagpole gives access to a road while the lot is set back from the road by the length of the flagpole up to the bottom of the flag.

On 5/14/2015 11:37 AM, micky wrote:
On Thu, 14 May 2015 08:09:12 -0400, Frank "frank wrote:

On 5/13/2015 11:15 PM, micky wrote:
A friend moved to a more rural area, to a new subdivision.

There are one or more parts of her plat we don't understand.

She and 4 neighbors live on a private road, which comes from a newly
built road. I guess this bigger road has been given to the county, but
she seems to share responsibility for maintaining the private road.
There is a little "bulge" in the public road at the end of it. Not as
big as a cul de sac, and barely big enough to make a u-turn in.

Even though her lot is basically 4-sided, the plat shows 5 bands, each
about 10 feet wide, going side-by-side down the private rood, to where
it meets the public road (which has a bulge at its end.) OTOH, if
one starts at the public road, each band ends when it reached the lot it
is attached to.


Each band is either 10.25', 11,04', or 10.02' for a total of 52.6 feet.
The private road is not that wide, so some of this land is off the road
and looks like it belongs to lot owners along the way.

Do I have to explain further, because I'm having trouble describing
this, or does some one here already know what I'm talking about?

Does she really own a strip of land reaching all the way to the bulge,
or do they all share the road and the plat just represents it that way?





Where I live is something like that. When we moved in, the road was
private and maintained by a maintenance corporation owned by the
community. Several lots were oddly shaped along the road, particularly
those at the entrance to the state road.

I've got a neighbor in back of me, outside our community, who has a pipe
shaped lot where the pipe stem runs ~700 ft from the main plot where the
house is for his drive to get to the state road.

Yeah, that's it. So she really does own the land. I was going to say:
although of course it has to be used for the road, but I think the road
is no more than 20 feet wide and the pipe stems total 52 feet wide, she
owns 10 feet of one side of neighbor's yard, the side that abuts the
private road. Interesting, since he's trying to claim 3 feet of her
yard on the side where their two yards meet. Last fall he started
mowing it and just now he was about to plant bushes on it. She's
probably going to have to get a survey done. $1400, I think she said.

I'm sure her pipe-stem doesn't really help her, but I wanted us both to
understand the situation.

The plat refers to a separate document about maintaining the prviate
road, but the pipestems probably indicate how the cost is apportioned.
She has to pay 1/5 of the her 600 feet (only 300 of which is stem), her
neighbor to the right pays the same as she does plus 1/4 of his 300
additional feet. The next neighbor pays the same as #2 plus 1/3 of his
400 additional feet.... and the last one pays what the one to his left
does plus the all of his 100 feet. I've wondered about that in the
past and this is the only thing that is really fair.

Even though the plat shows 10 feet wide strips, in practice they
probably divide the width of the road by 5 where there are 5 lots using
it, or at least they bill it that way. Even if her 10 feet is all
covered by grass.


Our deed restrictions called for us to be members of the maintenance
association which took care of the road with annual dues and
assessments. Fortunately we were able to give the road to the state to
maintain and it is no longer a concern.

"micky" wrote in message
...
A friend moved to a more rural area, to a new subdivision.

There are one or more parts of her plat we don't understand.

She and 4 neighbors live on a private road, which comes from a newly
built road. I guess this bigger road has been given to the county, but
she seems to share responsibility for maintaining the private road.
There is a little "bulge" in the public road at the end of it. Not as
big as a cul de sac, and barely big enough to make a u-turn in.

Even though her lot is basically 4-sided, the plat shows 5 bands, each
about 10 feet wide, going side-by-side down the private rood, to where
it meets the public road (which has a bulge at its end.) OTOH, if
one starts at the public road, each band ends when it reached the lot it
is attached to.


Each band is either 10.25', 11,04', or 10.02' for a total of 52.6 feet.
The private road is not that wide, so some of this land is off the road
and looks like it belongs to lot owners along the way.

Do I have to explain further, because I'm having trouble describing
this, or does some one here already know what I'm talking about?

Does she really own a strip of land reaching all the way to the bulge,
or do they all share the road and the plat just represents it that way?





To easiest way to understand the way it is done in your community is to talk
to the town clerk or contact the surveyor who laid out the lots and streets.
These people know how they do things in their own area, not opinions from
areas that are operated differently. The surveyor can translate what is your
property, what is your neighbors and what is owned or controlled by the
local government and how he laid it out.

On Fri, 15 May 2015 14:01:50 -0400, "EXT"
wrote:

To easiest way to understand the way it is done in your community is to talk
to the town clerk or contact the surveyor who laid out the lots and streets.
These people know how they do things in their own area, not opinions from
areas that are operated differently. The surveyor can translate what is your
property, what is your neighbors and what is owned or controlled by the
local government and how he laid it out.

True, though surveyors can be off target. (bombs missing target on a
test range)

On my present old foggy lot, I am the second owner after the
developer. My Plat tells fence line on block walls, who owns or is
responsible for repair of the wall.

One time I did have a lawyer do a Title search. Two inches thick back
to native American trails that crossed the land.

It was a good read of land, ownership and tranfer. No Mohawk Indians
sued me. Not part of 5 nations

Oren posted for all of us...



On Fri, 15 May 2015 14:01:50 -0400, "EXT"
wrote:

To easiest way to understand the way it is done in your community is to talk
to the town clerk or contact the surveyor who laid out the lots and streets.
These people know how they do things in their own area, not opinions from
areas that are operated differently. The surveyor can translate what is your
property, what is your neighbors and what is owned or controlled by the
local government and how he laid it out.

True, though surveyors can be off target. (bombs missing target on a
test range)

And they often are. Much better since using GPS. The older stuff was fudge
it a little until we close the plat. Distances weren't the problem so much
but angle between lines was.

On my present old foggy lot, I am the second owner after the
developer. My Plat tells fence line on block walls, who owns or is
responsible for repair of the wall.

One time I did have a lawyer do a Title search. Two inches thick back
to native American trails that crossed the land.

It was a good read of land, ownership and tranfer. No Mohawk Indians
sued me. Not part of 5 nations



--
Tekkie *Please post a follow-up*

On Fri, 15 May 2015 16:28:56 -0400, Tekkie®
wrote:

To easiest way to understand the way it is done in your community is to talk
to the town clerk or contact the surveyor who laid out the lots and streets.
These people know how they do things in their own area, not opinions from
areas that are operated differently. The surveyor can translate what is your
property, what is your neighbors and what is owned or controlled by the
local government and how he laid it out.

True, though surveyors can be off target. (bombs missing target on a
test range)

And they often are. Much better since using GPS. The older stuff was fudge
it a little until we close the plat. Distances weren't the problem so much
but angle between lines was.

In my best Nick the 'Blade Philly' accent, "dis guy I know" worked on
Area 51 and was involved in military 'stuff'. Targets, survey,
arithmetic, pencils, paper and computer calculations on double
top-secret, extra probation and all. He found the "bug" in software
after doing his numbers over

It was not his fault the bomb missed by 15 feet.

On Thu, 14 May 2015 13:44:46 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

What others are referring to as pipestem lots are called "flag lots" here in IL. the flagpole gives access to a road while the lot is set back from the road by the length of the flagpole up to the bottom of the flag.

Yeah, that's exactly it.

I hadn't heard either term before, even though I myself sort of have a
lot like this. My flag pole / pipe stem is only about 20 feet long, so
it doesn't look so weird or worth commenting on. (although I think my
next door neighbor on my right thinks he owns it.)

My next-door neigbhor on my left also has such a lot, but his pipe-stem
is only 8 feet long or less and barely noticeable, except that it's on
the other side of the sidewalk that goes from townhouse to townhouse.
I think he doesn't even know that he owns the land. (Unless I told him,
but I forget if I did or not.) A neighborhood volunteer mows it when he
mows his own lawn and 2 adjoining neighbors .

cc: homeowner

On Sat, 16 May 2015 00:59:11 -0400, wrote:

On Fri, 15 May 2015 12:54:49 -0700, Oren wrote:

On my present old foggy lot, I am the second owner after the
developer. My Plat tells fence line on block walls, who owns or is
responsible for repair of the wall.

There have been 3 surveys of the lot next to my house over the years
and there are 3 different "corner pins" driven in the dirt. The spread
is about a foot.

How did this happen? One by the owner and one by the next door
neighbor? And the one by the owner favors the owner, and the one by
the neighbor favors the neighbor?

Does it affect you?


My friend is about to hire a surveyor to put in pins, etc. and if she
spends 1400 and it contradicts her, she won't be happy!


BTW, the lots there now, since 2007, are the first such small properties
(an acre or two each) Before that it was a farm. Her house was there
and the lawn planted before the neighbor started construction.

On Fri, 15 May 2015 14:01:50 -0400, "EXT"
wrote:


"micky" wrote in message
.. .
A friend moved to a more rural area, to a new subdivision.

There are one or more parts of her plat we don't understand.

She and 4 neighbors live on a private road, which comes from a newly
built road. I guess this bigger road has been given to the county, but
she seems to share responsibility for maintaining the private road.
There is a little "bulge" in the public road at the end of it. Not as
big as a cul de sac, and barely big enough to make a u-turn in.

Even though her lot is basically 4-sided, the plat shows 5 bands, each
about 10 feet wide, going side-by-side down the private rood, to where
it meets the public road (which has a bulge at its end.) OTOH, if
one starts at the public road, each band ends when it reached the lot it
is attached to.


Each band is either 10.25', 11,04', or 10.02' for a total of 52.6 feet.
The private road is not that wide, so some of this land is off the road
and looks like it belongs to lot owners along the way.

Do I have to explain further, because I'm having trouble describing
this, or does some one here already know what I'm talking about?

Does she really own a strip of land reaching all the way to the bulge,
or do they all share the road and the plat just represents it that way?





To easiest way to understand the way it is done in your community is to talk
to the town clerk or contact the surveyor who laid out the lots and streets.

The name of the original surveyor is in big print on the plats, from
about 2007. Maybe he has enough information stored at his office that
he can do the survey more cheaply, or maybe he'll think of her as a
returning customer and she'll get a discount for that reason.

OTOH, maybe, maybe not. :-)

These people know how they do things in their own area, not opinions from
areas that are operated differently. The surveyor can translate what is your
property, what is your neighbors and what is owned or controlled by the
local government and how he laid it out.

posted for all of us...



On Fri, 15 May 2015 12:54:49 -0700, Oren wrote:

On my present old foggy lot, I am the second owner after the
developer. My Plat tells fence line on block walls, who owns or is
responsible for repair of the wall.

There have been 3 surveys of the lot next to my house over the years
and there are 3 different "corner pins" driven in the dirt. The spread
is about a foot.

Why don't you average it out and drive your own? G

--
Tekkie *Please post a follow-up*

"Tekkie®" wrote in message
...
posted for all of us...



On Fri, 15 May 2015 12:54:49 -0700, Oren wrote:

On my present old foggy lot, I am the second owner after the
developer. My Plat tells fence line on block walls, who owns or is
responsible for repair of the wall.

There have been 3 surveys of the lot next to my house over the years
and there are 3 different "corner pins" driven in the dirt. The spread
is about a foot.

Why don't you average it out and drive your own? G


Because **I** own that "no man's land".