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Default Lumber Liquidators laminate flooring

On Friday, March 6, 2015 at 2:47:59 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 09:09:32 -0600, dpb wrote:

On 03/02/2015 7:14 AM, Frank wrote:
On 3/1/2015 9:04 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
Anyone watch 60 Minutes tonight? They has a segment about the laminate
flooring that Lumber Liquidators is having made at three plants in
China. It can be made 10% to 15% cheaper if you put in excessive
formaldehyde. It exceeds California limits as much as 20X.

...
I saw it too and question in my mind was that, while it fails California
standard, what about US standards?

...

CA was also just testing the boards where I would expect the EPA to
sample the indoor air.


I had it on, paid moderate attention...what I thought I heard was that
EPA implemented the CA standards in part, at least, altho didn't try to
get the details particularly.


I only heard about 3 words, but I consider 60 Minutes an alarmist
program, and untrustworthy.



I don't completely trust 60 Mins or any other news source for that
matter. And there are very good reasons to be concerned with this
story, because a hedge fund that has sold short the stock is involved
with an environmental group and they are suing LL. The day after
the story, LL stock dropped 25%. Potentially that could be worth
hundreds of millions of dollars to the hedge fund. I think 60 Mins
had an obligation to ask the hedge fund manager if he currently was
short the stock. They interviewed him, but never asked. So, there's
that troubling angle.

But if you watched the whole thing, it's hard to dismiss
the hidden camera part where 60 Mins went to the factories in China
that produce the product for LL and posed as buyers looking for
product for another company. The plant managers openly told them that
the product they make doesn't meet the California CARB standard. They
asked if it could be made to meet it, managers said, "that would be
very expensive". Yet the product they are building for LL is labeled
as CARB compliant. That's pretty powerful proof that the essence of
the story is correct.

There was one other big avenue that 60 Mins didn't pursue, or if they
did, didn't report on. LL CEO has what he says is test data from
the lab they use to check CARB compliance. He showed a chart that
shows all the tests are under the CARB levels, fully compliant.
60 Mins used a lab that says it;s actually ~2x to ~15X over the limit
for formaldehyde. You would think 60 Mins would go to the lab LL
used and try to figure out if there is an explanation for the huge
difference, what that lab has to say, etc. But there was nothing.





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Default Lumber and now... toe nail fungus

On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 16:17:56 -0500, Tekkie® wrote:

Interesting thought. I've wondered whether
there might be a good home remedy. People must
have had some options before there were anti-fungal
creams.


Back in the old days they used whiskey for almost everything.

I heard soaking foot in bleach water will kill it. I'm not sure how
strong it needs to be. Maybe there is something on the web...


Soak it incider


....incider what?!

I grew up in swamps, as did brothers. A bleach bath in warm water and
soak. If you get chiggers, ring-worms, snake bites, ear infections,
cooties -- Go to the Plan B or Plan C.

Plan D is burn the Levi's worn for days and can stand in a corner.

You can clean the swamp water with bleach and consume it.
--
"Your brain is so scary sometimes... it really is."-Jedediah Bila...
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Default Lumber Liquidators laminate flooring

On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 05:43:26 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:




There was one other big avenue that 60 Mins didn't pursue, or if they
did, didn't report on. LL CEO has what he says is test data from
the lab they use to check CARB compliance. He showed a chart that
shows all the tests are under the CARB levels, fully compliant.
60 Mins used a lab that says it;s actually ~2x to ~15X over the limit
for formaldehyde. You would think 60 Mins would go to the lab LL
used and try to figure out if there is an explanation for the huge
difference, what that lab has to say, etc. But there was nothing.


There is usually third party inspection for compliance, but that is a
joke. If you want to cheat, there are many ways around it. The lab
probably did test compliant parts. That, however, has little to do
with the parts shipped every day.
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Default Lumber Liquidators laminate flooring

On Friday, March 6, 2015 at 7:25:14 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 05:43:26 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:




There was one other big avenue that 60 Mins didn't pursue, or if they
did, didn't report on. LL CEO has what he says is test data from
the lab they use to check CARB compliance. He showed a chart that
shows all the tests are under the CARB levels, fully compliant.
60 Mins used a lab that says it;s actually ~2x to ~15X over the limit
for formaldehyde. You would think 60 Mins would go to the lab LL
used and try to figure out if there is an explanation for the huge
difference, what that lab has to say, etc. But there was nothing.


There is usually third party inspection for compliance, but that is a
joke. If you want to cheat, there are many ways around it. The lab
probably did test compliant parts. That, however, has little to do
with the parts shipped every day.


Yes, I agree, there are many ways. But it still is a big missing piece
of the story. It would have been very easy to go try to talk to the
lab and see what they have to say. If they're honest, you would think
they would be willing to take a 60 mins sample, test it and see what they
get. That would be interesting, for sure. If they agree with the 60 mins
numbers, then it would suggest that it's some sample switching, like you
suggest. If they don't get those high numbers, then the obvious question
is what's different in the tests.

Looks like Congress is going to get involved now too. That should be
interesting.


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Default Lumber Liquidators laminate flooring

On Fri, 06 Mar 2015 19:25:05 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 05:43:26 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:




There was one other big avenue that 60 Mins didn't pursue, or if they
did, didn't report on. LL CEO has what he says is test data from
the lab they use to check CARB compliance. He showed a chart that
shows all the tests are under the CARB levels, fully compliant.
60 Mins used a lab that says it;s actually ~2x to ~15X over the limit
for formaldehyde. You would think 60 Mins would go to the lab LL
used and try to figure out if there is an explanation for the huge
difference, what that lab has to say, etc. But there was nothing.


There is usually third party inspection for compliance, but that is a
joke. If you want to cheat, there are many ways around it. The lab
probably did test compliant parts. That, however, has little to do
with the parts shipped every day.

I've likely told the story here before - we used to buy a lot of
computer components from China at my last job before I struck out on
my own.
The first parts would always exede specifications by a fair margin.
The second shipment might meet spec, but by the 4th shipment, it was
pretty well junk.
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Default Lumber Liquidators laminate flooring

On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 16:44:40 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:




Yes, I agree, there are many ways. But it still is a big missing piece
of the story. It would have been very easy to go try to talk to the
lab and see what they have to say. If they're honest, you would think
they would be willing to take a 60 mins sample, test it and see what they
get. That would be interesting, for sure. If they agree with the 60 mins
numbers, then it would suggest that it's some sample switching, like you
suggest. If they don't get those high numbers, then the obvious question
is what's different in the tests.


My guess is the lab is honest. They test what they are given. I've
been involved with 3rd party testing and inspections for a dozen
years. Every quarter an inspector would come un-announced, take
random samples and send them to the lab. If you want to cheat, it is
very easy to control what is sent.

Would have been interesting to see the comparative results, but my
guess is their lawyers don't want to get involved. It was never said
if they were contacted.


Looks like Congress is going to get involved now too. That should be
interesting.


I feel so much better now.
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Default Lumber and now... toe nail fungus

Oren posted for all of us...


...incider what?!


Inside her. A PA Dutch remedy.

--
Tekkie *Please post a follow-up*
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Default Lumber and now... toe nail fungus

Which flooring they have alot of laminate flooring is it all of them
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On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 11:42:32 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Which flooring they have alot of laminate flooring is it all of them


Did you check their website? Google for what product is affected?
Call them up? They've said they are supplying test kits to customers
who want them and if the tests show formaldehyde in the air, they
will rectify it. Seems unlikely that someone here is going to be
a definitive source on what's going on.


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Default Lumber and now... toe nail fungus

On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 09:45:45 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 11:42:32 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Which flooring they have alot of laminate flooring is it all of them


Did you check their website? Google for what product is affected?
Call them up? They've said they are supplying test kits to customers
who want them and if the tests show formaldehyde in the air, they
will rectify it. Seems unlikely that someone here is going to be
a definitive source on what's going on.


We figure out and solve world problems here every day. No reason we
can't handle this little problem.
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Default Lumber and now... toe nail fungus

On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 1:27:54 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 09:45:45 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 11:42:32 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Which flooring they have alot of laminate flooring is it all of them


Did you check their website? Google for what product is affected?
Call them up? They've said they are supplying test kits to customers
who want them and if the tests show formaldehyde in the air, they
will rectify it. Seems unlikely that someone here is going to be
a definitive source on what's going on.


We figure out and solve world problems here every day. No reason we
can't handle this little problem.


K, it's all yours.
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Default Lumber and now... toe nail fungus

On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 10:37:45 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 1:27:54 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 09:45:45 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 11:42:32 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Which flooring they have alot of laminate flooring is it all of them

Did you check their website? Google for what product is affected?
Call them up? They've said they are supplying test kits to customers
who want them and if the tests show formaldehyde in the air, they
will rectify it. Seems unlikely that someone here is going to be
a definitive source on what's going on.


We figure out and solve world problems here every day. No reason we
can't handle this little problem.


K, it's all yours.


....help
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