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#41
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Lumber Liquidators laminate flooring
On Friday, March 6, 2015 at 2:47:59 AM UTC-5, micky wrote:
On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 09:09:32 -0600, dpb wrote: On 03/02/2015 7:14 AM, Frank wrote: On 3/1/2015 9:04 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote: Anyone watch 60 Minutes tonight? They has a segment about the laminate flooring that Lumber Liquidators is having made at three plants in China. It can be made 10% to 15% cheaper if you put in excessive formaldehyde. It exceeds California limits as much as 20X. ... I saw it too and question in my mind was that, while it fails California standard, what about US standards? ... CA was also just testing the boards where I would expect the EPA to sample the indoor air. I had it on, paid moderate attention...what I thought I heard was that EPA implemented the CA standards in part, at least, altho didn't try to get the details particularly. I only heard about 3 words, but I consider 60 Minutes an alarmist program, and untrustworthy. I don't completely trust 60 Mins or any other news source for that matter. And there are very good reasons to be concerned with this story, because a hedge fund that has sold short the stock is involved with an environmental group and they are suing LL. The day after the story, LL stock dropped 25%. Potentially that could be worth hundreds of millions of dollars to the hedge fund. I think 60 Mins had an obligation to ask the hedge fund manager if he currently was short the stock. They interviewed him, but never asked. So, there's that troubling angle. But if you watched the whole thing, it's hard to dismiss the hidden camera part where 60 Mins went to the factories in China that produce the product for LL and posed as buyers looking for product for another company. The plant managers openly told them that the product they make doesn't meet the California CARB standard. They asked if it could be made to meet it, managers said, "that would be very expensive". Yet the product they are building for LL is labeled as CARB compliant. That's pretty powerful proof that the essence of the story is correct. There was one other big avenue that 60 Mins didn't pursue, or if they did, didn't report on. LL CEO has what he says is test data from the lab they use to check CARB compliance. He showed a chart that shows all the tests are under the CARB levels, fully compliant. 60 Mins used a lab that says it;s actually ~2x to ~15X over the limit for formaldehyde. You would think 60 Mins would go to the lab LL used and try to figure out if there is an explanation for the huge difference, what that lab has to say, etc. But there was nothing. |
#42
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Lumber and now... toe nail fungus
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#43
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Lumber and now... toe nail fungus
On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 16:17:56 -0500, Tekkie® wrote:
Interesting thought. I've wondered whether there might be a good home remedy. People must have had some options before there were anti-fungal creams. Back in the old days they used whiskey for almost everything. I heard soaking foot in bleach water will kill it. I'm not sure how strong it needs to be. Maybe there is something on the web... Soak it incider ....incider what?! I grew up in swamps, as did brothers. A bleach bath in warm water and soak. If you get chiggers, ring-worms, snake bites, ear infections, cooties -- Go to the Plan B or Plan C. Plan D is burn the Levi's worn for days and can stand in a corner. You can clean the swamp water with bleach and consume it. -- "Your brain is so scary sometimes... it really is."-Jedediah Bila... |
#44
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Lumber Liquidators laminate flooring
On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 05:43:26 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote: There was one other big avenue that 60 Mins didn't pursue, or if they did, didn't report on. LL CEO has what he says is test data from the lab they use to check CARB compliance. He showed a chart that shows all the tests are under the CARB levels, fully compliant. 60 Mins used a lab that says it;s actually ~2x to ~15X over the limit for formaldehyde. You would think 60 Mins would go to the lab LL used and try to figure out if there is an explanation for the huge difference, what that lab has to say, etc. But there was nothing. There is usually third party inspection for compliance, but that is a joke. If you want to cheat, there are many ways around it. The lab probably did test compliant parts. That, however, has little to do with the parts shipped every day. |
#45
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Lumber Liquidators laminate flooring
On Friday, March 6, 2015 at 7:25:14 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 05:43:26 -0800 (PST), trader_4 wrote: There was one other big avenue that 60 Mins didn't pursue, or if they did, didn't report on. LL CEO has what he says is test data from the lab they use to check CARB compliance. He showed a chart that shows all the tests are under the CARB levels, fully compliant. 60 Mins used a lab that says it;s actually ~2x to ~15X over the limit for formaldehyde. You would think 60 Mins would go to the lab LL used and try to figure out if there is an explanation for the huge difference, what that lab has to say, etc. But there was nothing. There is usually third party inspection for compliance, but that is a joke. If you want to cheat, there are many ways around it. The lab probably did test compliant parts. That, however, has little to do with the parts shipped every day. Yes, I agree, there are many ways. But it still is a big missing piece of the story. It would have been very easy to go try to talk to the lab and see what they have to say. If they're honest, you would think they would be willing to take a 60 mins sample, test it and see what they get. That would be interesting, for sure. If they agree with the 60 mins numbers, then it would suggest that it's some sample switching, like you suggest. If they don't get those high numbers, then the obvious question is what's different in the tests. Looks like Congress is going to get involved now too. That should be interesting. |
#46
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Lumber Liquidators laminate flooring
On Fri, 06 Mar 2015 19:25:05 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 05:43:26 -0800 (PST), trader_4 wrote: There was one other big avenue that 60 Mins didn't pursue, or if they did, didn't report on. LL CEO has what he says is test data from the lab they use to check CARB compliance. He showed a chart that shows all the tests are under the CARB levels, fully compliant. 60 Mins used a lab that says it;s actually ~2x to ~15X over the limit for formaldehyde. You would think 60 Mins would go to the lab LL used and try to figure out if there is an explanation for the huge difference, what that lab has to say, etc. But there was nothing. There is usually third party inspection for compliance, but that is a joke. If you want to cheat, there are many ways around it. The lab probably did test compliant parts. That, however, has little to do with the parts shipped every day. I've likely told the story here before - we used to buy a lot of computer components from China at my last job before I struck out on my own. The first parts would always exede specifications by a fair margin. The second shipment might meet spec, but by the 4th shipment, it was pretty well junk. |
#47
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Lumber Liquidators laminate flooring
On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 16:44:40 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote: Yes, I agree, there are many ways. But it still is a big missing piece of the story. It would have been very easy to go try to talk to the lab and see what they have to say. If they're honest, you would think they would be willing to take a 60 mins sample, test it and see what they get. That would be interesting, for sure. If they agree with the 60 mins numbers, then it would suggest that it's some sample switching, like you suggest. If they don't get those high numbers, then the obvious question is what's different in the tests. My guess is the lab is honest. They test what they are given. I've been involved with 3rd party testing and inspections for a dozen years. Every quarter an inspector would come un-announced, take random samples and send them to the lab. If you want to cheat, it is very easy to control what is sent. Would have been interesting to see the comparative results, but my guess is their lawyers don't want to get involved. It was never said if they were contacted. Looks like Congress is going to get involved now too. That should be interesting. I feel so much better now. |
#48
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Lumber and now... toe nail fungus
Oren posted for all of us...
...incider what?! Inside her. A PA Dutch remedy. -- Tekkie *Please post a follow-up* |
#49
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Lumber and now... toe nail fungus
Which flooring they have alot of laminate flooring is it all of them
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#50
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Lumber and now... toe nail fungus
On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 11:42:32 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Which flooring they have alot of laminate flooring is it all of them Did you check their website? Google for what product is affected? Call them up? They've said they are supplying test kits to customers who want them and if the tests show formaldehyde in the air, they will rectify it. Seems unlikely that someone here is going to be a definitive source on what's going on. |
#51
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Lumber and now... toe nail fungus
On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 09:45:45 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote: On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 11:42:32 AM UTC-4, wrote: Which flooring they have alot of laminate flooring is it all of them Did you check their website? Google for what product is affected? Call them up? They've said they are supplying test kits to customers who want them and if the tests show formaldehyde in the air, they will rectify it. Seems unlikely that someone here is going to be a definitive source on what's going on. We figure out and solve world problems here every day. No reason we can't handle this little problem. |
#52
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Lumber and now... toe nail fungus
On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 1:27:54 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote:
On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 09:45:45 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote: On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 11:42:32 AM UTC-4, wrote: Which flooring they have alot of laminate flooring is it all of them Did you check their website? Google for what product is affected? Call them up? They've said they are supplying test kits to customers who want them and if the tests show formaldehyde in the air, they will rectify it. Seems unlikely that someone here is going to be a definitive source on what's going on. We figure out and solve world problems here every day. No reason we can't handle this little problem. K, it's all yours. |
#53
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Lumber and now... toe nail fungus
On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 10:37:45 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote: On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 1:27:54 PM UTC-4, Oren wrote: On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 09:45:45 -0700 (PDT), trader_4 wrote: On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 11:42:32 AM UTC-4, wrote: Which flooring they have alot of laminate flooring is it all of them Did you check their website? Google for what product is affected? Call them up? They've said they are supplying test kits to customers who want them and if the tests show formaldehyde in the air, they will rectify it. Seems unlikely that someone here is going to be a definitive source on what's going on. We figure out and solve world problems here every day. No reason we can't handle this little problem. K, it's all yours. ....help |
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