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Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
The fixture will be mounted about 24 feet above the ground so it has to be bright. The people who rate the one below say it's very bright, but have they ever looked into a 100 watt incandescent floodlight? It's probably blinding, so I'm not sure the raters' opinions are really comparisons. The one below at Home Depot from Lithonia Lighting says it has "2 efficient 10-watt LEDs" where the two incandescent lights would otherwise be. The picture shows two circular devices, each divided into 3 120-degree parts, with what looks like a small concave reflector with an LED in the middle of each part. I guess they are saying the 3 together use 10 watts. Are there really 3 1/3 watt LEDs, and is 10 watts from an LED as much light as 100 watts incandescent?? That's what the floodlights use now, 200 watts total per fixture. The maker's website http://www.lithonia.com/commercial/2....VDrPJ 1fDuM0 says "Each head contains (3) 4780K high performance LEDs. Lumen output of 1,222 is maintained at 50,000 hour life. LED driver is 120V and operates at 60Hz." I like the idea of LED, because it's very difficult to change the bulb on one of my two** double-flloodlights.***, but not if it's not going to light up the area. Mostly what I'm looking for is a light that won't go on because of the wind, but will go on when a person walks by. This one, despite the high price, $116, only has 6 LEDs (2 by HD's counting method!). http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-...O-BZ/202598344 The same thing with three sets of three LEDs is 150 dollars, implying that one group of three and the holder is $34 The same thing with photocell but no motion sensor is 98 dollars, impliying that they're only charging 18 dollars for the motion sensor and most of the price is for the LEDs. Thanks. Details that the electronics guys may find boring. Hey, everyone may find them boring! **The other floodlight in the back of the house I put in right under my bedroom window, so I can just lean out and change the bulb. I wired it from the receptacle just below the window, so little effort to run the wires, and it sure looks better than several of my neighbors' who let an electrician or handyman run surface Romex or conduit from the back porch light, most of whom no longer have a back porch light. *** It's chest high when I'm in the attic, so that's about 24 feet (?, two story house, plus attic. The first floor is about a foot above the ground.) and I don't have a ladder that long. What I've done to adjust the light sensor and change the bulb is to unscrew the winged folding toggle nut inside the attic, remove the big washer, disconnect the Romex and tie a string to the end of the wire, and lower the whole fixture to the ground. Do my work there, and pull tthe fixture back up. The hard parts are getting the romex through its hole, and gettting the long screw to go though its assigned hole (which is a lot bigger than the screw, but still not easy to find) so I can screw the toggle nut back on. I've done this twice with no more than 10 minutes each time trying to get the screw through, but I fear some time it will take me hours, and it woudl be nice if it used LED's and never burned out. But at 23 feet high, the light has to be bright!! |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
micky wrote:
Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight? The city street lights on my block are now LEDs, and they are plenty bright. |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On Sunday, October 12, 2014 3:17:59 PM UTC-4, micky wrote:
Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight? Short answer, absolutely. Long answer, make sure you look at the lumen output and beam angle specs for the specific light you are considering using, compared/contrasted to those for the conventional (100W, 200W, etc.) incandescent that you would otherwise use for that location. Do NOT trust the "wattage equivalent" verbiage on the packaging; pretty much all manufacturers of LED lighting fudge those a little bit, especially with screw in A19 and other similar formats commonly used as household lighting. nate |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On Sunday, October 12, 2014 4:00:46 PM UTC-4, N8N wrote:
On Sunday, October 12, 2014 3:17:59 PM UTC-4, micky wrote: Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight? Short answer, absolutely. Long answer, make sure you look at the lumen output and beam angle specs for the specific light you are considering using, compared/contrasted to those for the conventional (100W, 200W, etc.) incandescent that you would otherwise use for that location. Do NOT trust the "wattage equivalent" verbiage on the packaging; pretty much all manufacturers of LED lighting fudge those a little bit, especially with screw in A19 and other similar formats commonly used as household lighting. nate +1 |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
"micky" wrote in message
Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight? The fixture will be mounted about 24 feet above the ground so it has to be bright. The people who rate the one below say it's very bright, but have they ever looked into a 100 watt incandescent floodlight? It's probably blinding, so I'm not sure the raters' opinions are really comparisons. The one below at Home Depot from Lithonia Lighting says it has "2 efficient 10-watt LEDs" where the two incandescent lights would otherwise be. The picture shows two circular devices, each divided into 3 120-degree parts, with what looks like a small concave reflector with an LED in the middle of each part. I guess they are saying the 3 together use 10 watts. Are there really 3 1/3 watt LEDs, and is 10 watts from an LED as much light as 100 watts incandescent?? That's what the floodlights use now, 200 watts total per fixture. Compare lumens, no watts. Watts= enegy to produce lumens. A reflector also makes a huge difference over a raw bulb. Type of reflector also makes a difference...a given area at a given distance from the light source will receive more light from a narrow beam reflector than from a wide beam reflector. -- dadiOH ____________________________ Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race? Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 15:17:59 -0400, micky
wrote: Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight? Yes. Spend $15 or more on a Lux Meter (photometer), measure the spot intensities, and see for yourself: www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=lux+meter+photometer I have one of these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/110764870937 However, there's a problem. The total light output of an LED light is rated in lumens, not lux. Lux is just the intensity at a given point. Focus the beam, and you get a really high lux value. Spread it out into your floodlight, and the intensity is much less. Lumens is the total output, in all directions. The right way to measure that is with an integrating sphe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrating_sphere My way is much easier, but not terribly accurate. However, it will do nicely for comparisons. I recently threw together the procedure and posted it to the rec.bicycles.tech newsgroup. Cut-n-pasted: 1. Point light at the wall in a dark room at a distance of 1 meter. There's nothing sacred about the 1 meter distance. If 1 meter seems too close, just pick another distance. 2. Measure the spot diameter on the wall. If the light slowly fades away from the hot spot, just guess the half brightness points. If the spot is oval shaped, measure both the maximum and minimum diameters and calculate an average. 3. At the same 1 meter distance, use the Lux meter to measure the brightness. This is not really correct, since lumens is the total brightness, including the over spray. The brightness will also follow a Gaussian curve over the spot diameter. 4. Calculate the beam width in degrees. Dust off the long forgotten inverse trigonometric functions on your calculator: Beam_width_in_degrees = 2 * arctan (spot_radius/dist) whe spot_radius = 1/2 * spot diameter, in your favorite units of measure dist = distance between light and spot in same units of measure. 5. Using the values of lux, distance, and beamwidth, plug into one of the calculators at: http://www.ledrise.com/shop_content.php?coID=19 https://ledstuff.co.nz/data_calculators.php to obtain lumens. I would be interested in collecting results as I only have a few bicycle lights and flashlights suitable for testing. Please include measurements, maker, model, battery type, manufacturers rated lumens, and condition of battery (new, used, old, leaking, dead). So far: Light spot_dia dist width bright calc mfg (cm) (cm) (deg) (lux) (lumens) (lumens) 5w Cree light hi 80 100 43.6 480 216 500 5w Cree light hi 51 100 28.6 900 175 500 5w Cree light lo 80 100 43.6 140 63 ? Planet Bike 1 watt 20 100 11.4 3000 93 76 (new batt) Maglite 3D LED 13 100 7.4 3600 47 131 (old batt) There are other problems when comparing LED and incandescent brightness. The spectra is not the same. Therefore the perceived brightness will vary with the color temperature. Most lights have some amount of over-spray outside of the spot area. The lux meter will not capture these, resulting in some error. The intensity across the spot is not uniform but tends to follow a Gaussian curve. Some lights have a very hot spot in the middle, and then just fade out towards the edges. Do your best and see how close to the rated lumens you get. Good luck. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On 10/12/2014 3:17 PM, micky wrote:
Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight? The fixture will be mounted about 24 feet above the ground so it has to be bright. The people who rate the one below say it's very bright, but have they ever looked into a 100 watt incandescent floodlight? It's probably blinding, so I'm not sure the raters' opinions are really comparisons. The one below at Home Depot from Lithonia Lighting says it has "2 Can't help you out on the question. But, I installed 21 Lithonia LED can lights throughout my place. They cost a bit more than other brands, but been real pleased with the lights/looks. Had to have 1 replacement afterwards, and they sent me 2 with no questions asked. |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On 13/10/2014 6:17 AM, micky wrote:
Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight? The fixture will be mounted about 24 feet above the ground so it has to be bright. The people who rate the one below say it's very bright, but have they ever looked into a 100 watt incandescent floodlight? It's probably blinding, so I'm not sure the raters' opinions are really comparisons. The one below at Home Depot from Lithonia Lighting says it has "2 efficient 10-watt LEDs" where the two incandescent lights would otherwise be. The picture shows two circular devices, each divided into 3 120-degree parts, with what looks like a small concave reflector with an LED in the middle of each part. I guess they are saying the 3 together use 10 watts. Are there really 3 1/3 watt LEDs, and is 10 watts from an LED as much light as 100 watts incandescent?? That's what the floodlights use now, 200 watts total per fixture. The maker's website http://www.lithonia.com/commercial/2....VDrPJ 1fDuM0 says "Each head contains (3) 4780K high performance LEDs. Lumen output of 1,222 is maintained at 50,000 hour life. LED driver is 120V and operates at 60Hz." I like the idea of LED, because it's very difficult to change the bulb on one of my two** double-flloodlights.***, but not if it's not going to light up the area. Mostly what I'm looking for is a light that won't go on because of the wind, but will go on when a person walks by. This one, despite the high price, $116, only has 6 LEDs (2 by HD's counting method!). http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-...O-BZ/202598344 The same thing with three sets of three LEDs is 150 dollars, implying that one group of three and the holder is $34 The same thing with photocell but no motion sensor is 98 dollars, impliying that they're only charging 18 dollars for the motion sensor and most of the price is for the LEDs. Thanks. Details that the electronics guys may find boring. Hey, everyone may find them boring! **The other floodlight in the back of the house I put in right under my bedroom window, so I can just lean out and change the bulb. I wired it from the receptacle just below the window, so little effort to run the wires, and it sure looks better than several of my neighbors' who let an electrician or handyman run surface Romex or conduit from the back porch light, most of whom no longer have a back porch light. *** It's chest high when I'm in the attic, so that's about 24 feet (?, two story house, plus attic. The first floor is about a foot above the ground.) and I don't have a ladder that long. What I've done to adjust the light sensor and change the bulb is to unscrew the winged folding toggle nut inside the attic, remove the big washer, disconnect the Romex and tie a string to the end of the wire, and lower the whole fixture to the ground. Do my work there, and pull tthe fixture back up. The hard parts are getting the romex through its hole, and gettting the long screw to go though its assigned hole (which is a lot bigger than the screw, but still not easy to find) so I can screw the toggle nut back on. I've done this twice with no more than 10 minutes each time trying to get the screw through, but I fear some time it will take me hours, and it woudl be nice if it used LED's and never burned out. But at 23 feet high, the light has to be bright!! **In general terms, halogen flood lights are capable of between 5 ~ 10 Lumens/Watt. Good quality LEDs can manage between 100 ~ 120 Lumens/Watt. I recently purchased a cheap, Chinese 100 Watt LED + power supply. Without a reflector, it provides superior lighting to a standard 500 Watt halogen lamp (with reflector). I took a couple of photos and found that the camera saw things differently to the human eye. Although the halogen was distinctly yellow and the LED very white, the amount of illumination was similar. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au |
I have a Pelican flashlight with a single LED light source. That flashlight is brighter than the old equivalent model Pelican Flashlights with the incandescent bulbs.
So, yes, LED's can be brighter than incandescent bulbs. I expect you'll have no problems with the LED flood light. |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a realfloodlight?
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014, Bob F wrote:
micky wrote: Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight? The city street lights on my block are now LEDs, and they are plenty bright. I remember a few years back starting to cross on what I thought was a green light, except it was red. I was somehow taking in the next corner's light, that turned green earlier, and it had to be an LED arrangement, because it was so much brighter than the light closer to me. Michael |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 01:06:30 +0200, nestork
wrote: I have a Pelican flashlight with a single LED light source. That flashlight is brighter than the old equivalent model Pelican Flashlights with the incandescent bulbs. So, yes, LED's can be brighter than incandescent bulbs. I expect you'll have no problems with the LED flood light. Thanks all. It turns out this time that the HD price is the same as Amazon, maybe less, but I just went to the store** and it wasn't in stock. I'm in no hurry. I'll ship it to the store, or maybe to my house (over 50 dollars shipping is free) BTW, it got quite a few complaints about strobing or breaking within a year on the Amazon site (and also on the HD site that was hard to read) but overall still scored a 4.8 out of 5 (which should really be 3.8 out of 4) **HD didn't have any LED Lithonia floodlights, even though they had a 6 foot wide section, 15 feet high, of Lithonia floodlights etc. Including a motion sensor that would wirelessly turn on an off mulitple light sockets. And another one that would turn on and off a receptacle, and beep when it did so. WRT lights for the front door, they had Zenith/Heath that had low lighting for 2, 4 hours or all night, and high lighting if the motion sensor saw something. And some of the lights by Hampton Bay (house brand?) had sensor that could control 325 watts, even though the most that could be used in the light was 100. The other 225 could be elsewhere, powered by the extra red wire. Lighting has gotten more complicated since last I looked. |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 15:17:59 -0400, micky
wrote: Well, someone -- thank you -- reminded me to look at lumens The maker's website http://www.lithonia.com/commercial/2....VDrPJ 1fDuM0 says "Each head contains (3) 4780K high performance LEDs. Lumen output of 1,222 is maintained at 50,000 hour life. LED driver is 120V and ========= operates at 60Hz." I wasn't sure if this was per head, so I looked at the 3 head version, and it said "Each head contains (3) 5339K high performance LEDs which maintain 1,719 lumen output " Different K value, but I guess they are giving the total, as they should be. And then I looked at 100 watt incandescent. About 1500 lumen times 2 = 3000 lumen. So since I really can't judge how bright 1222 lumens from LEDs will be, I don't kow whether to buy that 1222 for $117 or 1719 for $150. Or stay with incandescent for much less and hope they don't burn out so fast if I get a good brand that doesn't turn on with the wind. I almost never go there at night so if they don't turn on in the wind, they'll burn less than 5 hours a year 2000 hour lifespan will be 400 years. Ugh. |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
Mark wrote:
On 10/12/2014 3:17 PM, micky wrote: Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight? The fixture will be mounted about 24 feet above the ground so it has to be bright. The people who rate the one below say it's very bright, but have they ever looked into a 100 watt incandescent floodlight? It's probably blinding, so I'm not sure the raters' opinions are really comparisons. The one below at Home Depot from Lithonia Lighting says it has "2 Can't help you out on the question. But, I installed 21 Lithonia LED can lights throughout my place. They cost a bit more than other brands, but been real pleased with the lights/looks. Had to have 1 replacement afterwards, and they sent me 2 with no questions asked. |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
Mark wrote:
On 10/12/2014 3:17 PM, micky wrote: Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight? The fixture will be mounted about 24 feet above the ground so it has to be bright. The people who rate the one below say it's very bright, but have they ever looked into a 100 watt incandescent floodlight? It's probably blinding, so I'm not sure the raters' opinions are really comparisons. The one below at Home Depot from Lithonia Lighting says it has "2 Can't help you out on the question. But, I installed 21 Lithonia LED can lights throughout my place. They cost a bit more than other brands, but been real pleased with the lights/looks. Had to have 1 replacement afterwards, and they sent me 2 with no questions asked. Hi, Out kitchen had 75W pot flood lights. All been replaced with bright white (color temp. 5000K,60W equivalent Philips bulbs dimmable, it is as bright as ole bulbs. No problem. Most of bulbs in the house is now all LEDs. Could see some difference in the power bill. They run always cool. Good in summer time. |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 20:52:58 -0600, Tony Hwang
wrote: Most of bulbs in the house is now all LEDs. Could see some difference in the power bill. I didn't do so well. Through LED lighting transplants and juggling some electronics, I managed to drop my monthly electric burn from an average of 375 kw-hr in 2008 to about 315 kw-hr average in 2014. See spreadsheet and graph at: http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/PG&E to Sept 2014-01.xls Note the trend lines. While my electricity consumption was going down, PG&E was busy raising their rates and juggling the tiers. The result was despite the lower consumption, I am still paying roughly the same per month. Grumble. Some analysis with a clamp on ammeter and kill-a-watt meter showed that the bulk of my electric usage is the electric water heater. They don't make an LED water heater and solar is not an option in a forest. I'm looking into flash water heaters, but it looks like it would take years to recover the initial investment. A wood burning water heater using a hot tub as a hot water tank is a possibility, but doesn't work well with my convenience lifestyle. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On 10/12/2014 3:17 PM, micky wrote:
Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight? The fixture will be mounted about 24 feet above the ground so it has to be bright. The people who rate the one below say it's very bright, but have they ever looked into a 100 watt incandescent floodlight? It's probably blinding, so I'm not sure the raters' opinions are really comparisons. I recently replaced a 95W flood light on the garage with an LED. It is a whiter light and looks to be much brighter. I'm going to replace the other bulb soon too. I really like it. The fixture is mounted about 15 feet high and give plenty of light in the driveway. |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On 13/10/2014 8:58 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote:
**In general terms, halogen flood lights are capable of between 5 ~ 10 Lumens/Watt. **Oops. Make that 15 ~ 20 Lumens/Watt. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
"micky" wrote in message ... Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight? The fixture will be mounted about 24 feet above the ground so it has to be bright. Snip I have a one Cree LED porch light that senses movement on our front porch. Amazing how bright and coverage it has. Reflector of course. WW |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On 10/12/2014 11:26 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
I didn't do so well. Through LED lighting transplants and juggling some electronics, I managed to drop my monthly electric burn from an average of 375 kw-hr in 2008 to about 315 kw-hr average in 2014. Typical use here is 750 kw so overall, you are doing well. |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 10/12/2014 11:26 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote: I didn't do so well. Through LED lighting transplants and juggling some electronics, I managed to drop my monthly electric burn from an average of 375 kw-hr in 2008 to about 315 kw-hr average in 2014. Typical use here is 750 kw so overall, you are doing well. Hi, We consume around 1000KWh per month. Down from ~1300KWh. I think our 4 person electric Sauna sucks lot of juice even running on 220V. |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On 10/12/2014 3:17 PM, micky wrote:
Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight? The fixture will be mounted about 24 feet above the ground so it has to be bright. The people who rate the one below say it's very bright, but have they ever looked into a 100 watt incandescent floodlight? It's probably blinding, so I'm not sure the raters' opinions are really comparisons. The general answer is yes. My church has some flood lights at the end of the gymnasium, and also in the chapel. The facilities guys put in LED floods, which work fine. They say the bulbs cost twenty to thirty dollars each. I'd test the bulb on the ground at night before taking it that far in the air. Rig up a lamp cord. -- .. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .. |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On 10/12/2014 7:06 PM, nestork wrote:
I have a Pelican flashlight with a single LED light source. That flashlight is brighter than the old equivalent model Pelican Flashlights with the incandescent bulbs. So, yes, LED's can be brighter than incandescent bulbs. I expect you'll have no problems with the LED flood light. On flashlights (My favorite!) I'm doing a battery life test on lanterns from Walmart. They have a new one with ten LED, which really destroys the competition, the Ozark and Dorcy models with filament bulbs. Brighter, and the battery life is at least seven times longer, so far. Test is not complete, yet. -- .. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .. |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On 10/13/2014 2:23 AM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Hi, We consume around 1000KWh per month. Down from ~1300KWh. I think our 4 person electric Sauna sucks lot of juice even running on 220V. If the unit was 110 V, do you think the cost would be different? Hint: Watt is a unit of work. You pay for watts. .. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .. |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On 10/12/2014 3:17 PM, micky wrote:
Can an LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight? The fixture will be mounted about 24 feet above the ground so it has to be bright. The people who rate the one below say it's very bright, but have they ever looked into a 100 watt incandescent floodlight? It's probably blinding, so I'm not sure the raters' opinions are really comparisons. The one below at Home Depot from Lithonia Lighting says it has "2 efficient 10-watt LEDs" where the two incandescent lights would otherwise be. The picture shows two circular devices, each divided into 3 120-degree parts, with what looks like a small concave reflector with an LED in the middle of each part. I guess they are saying the 3 together use 10 watts. Are there really 3 1/3 watt LEDs, and is 10 watts from an LED as much light as 100 watts incandescent?? That's what the floodlights use now, 200 watts total per fixture. The maker's website http://www.lithonia.com/commercial/2....VDrPJ 1fDuM0 says "Each head contains (3) 4780K high performance LEDs. Lumen output of 1,222 is maintained at 50,000 hour life. LED driver is 120V and operates at 60Hz." I like the idea of LED, because it's very difficult to change the bulb on one of my two** double-flloodlights.***, but not if it's not going to light up the area. Mostly what I'm looking for is a light that won't go on because of the wind, but will go on when a person walks by. This one, despite the high price, $116, only has 6 LEDs (2 by HD's counting method!). http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-...O-BZ/202598344 The same thing with three sets of three LEDs is 150 dollars, implying that one group of three and the holder is $34 The same thing with photocell but no motion sensor is 98 dollars, impliying that they're only charging 18 dollars for the motion sensor and most of the price is for the LEDs. Thanks. Details that the electronics guys may find boring. Hey, everyone may find them boring! **The other floodlight in the back of the house I put in right under my bedroom window, so I can just lean out and change the bulb. I wired it from the receptacle just below the window, so little effort to run the wires, and it sure looks better than several of my neighbors' who let an electrician or handyman run surface Romex or conduit from the back porch light, most of whom no longer have a back porch light. *** It's chest high when I'm in the attic, so that's about 24 feet (?, two story house, plus attic. The first floor is about a foot above the ground.) and I don't have a ladder that long. What I've done to adjust the light sensor and change the bulb is to unscrew the winged folding toggle nut inside the attic, remove the big washer, disconnect the Romex and tie a string to the end of the wire, and lower the whole fixture to the ground. Do my work there, and pull tthe fixture back up. The hard parts are getting the romex through its hole, and gettting the long screw to go though its assigned hole (which is a lot bigger than the screw, but still not easy to find) so I can screw the toggle nut back on. I've done this twice with no more than 10 minutes each time trying to get the screw through, but I fear some time it will take me hours, and it woudl be nice if it used LED's and never burned out. But at 23 feet high, the light has to be bright!! Yes, you can buy LED lighting units which make your standard 100W incandescent flood bulb look like a dim candle. Readily-available off-the-shelf units which replace a big sodium vapor lamp are rated a 10,000 - 12,000 Lumens with 150W power input. Typically these will require an external motion sensor unit but that can be a real advantage in many situations where you are worried about false triggering. |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 12:20:25 +0100, Charlie+ wrote:
Air source or ground source Heatpump might be the answer for your water heating by electricity - worth a look? C+ Thanks. I didn't know a heat pump water heater existed. As I skim thruogh the online literature, I read that heat pumps are good for room heating/cooling, but not so good for heating water. Some larger ones use a water tank for a heat conducting fluid, but the water is not meant to be consumed. There are heat pump water heaters: http://energy.gov/energysaver/articles/heat-pump-water-heaters but those are geothermal, not air source. Looking at prices, such water heaters start at about $1,000 plus installation. I haven't run the numbers yet, but I suspect the expected savings in electricity would not cover the cost of the installed system within its expected lifetime (or mine). I'll do some more reading and see where it leads. Thanks again. My solution to the hot water problem is a nuclear powered water heater. Just a lump of some isotope that produces heat while breaking down. Fukushima should have plenty of the stuff worth mining. The nuclear water heater would be lead lined and buried for safety. Water temperature would be regulated by adding or removing radioactive pellets. There are also some safety issues that will need to be addressed. Actually, this is all academic as we're having a water shortage in California and unless it rains this winter, there isn't going to be any water to heat. Meanwhile, I'll probably just do a better job of insulating the tank and hot water pipes and wait patiently for the rain and a nuclear water heater. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On 10/13/2014 01:07 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
On 10/13/2014 2:23 AM, Tony Hwang wrote: Hi, We consume around 1000KWh per month. Down from ~1300KWh. I think our 4 person electric Sauna sucks lot of juice even running on 220V. If the unit was 110 V, do you think the cost would be different? Hint: Watt is a unit of work. You pay for watts. . Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org . Actyally you pay for energy, kWh ( kilowatthours) not for power ( as watt is). ismo |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
... Thanks. I didn't know a heat pump water heater existed. GE has been pushing theirs for several years, with commercials featuring irresistibly adorable snow monkeys. I considered getting one, but the dealer told me they don't work well in a condo, because it's hard to make a good "ground" connection. Flash heaters have been around for at least 60 years (probably longer). My father sold appliances and used to talk about them. CU discussed them several years ago, and decided that their high cost and difficulty of installation did not make them (generally) a good choice. Of course, if you use substantial amounts of hot water all day long, they make sense. |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 13/10/2014 8:58 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote: **In general terms, halogen flood lights are capable of between 5 ~ 10 Lumens/Watt. **Oops. Make that 15 ~ 20 Lumens/Watt. Still quite mediocre. I've been building my own LED retrofits for indoor lighting, using Cree 100 Lm/W LEDs. When you add the power supply, you are down to 80 Lm/W or so, but that is still pretty good, even better than good CFLs. Jon |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 08:58:56 +1100, Trevor Wilson
wrote: **In general terms, halogen flood lights are capable of between 5 ~ 10 Lumens/Watt. Good quality LEDs can manage between 100 ~ 120 Lumens/Watt. I recently purchased a cheap, Chinese 100 Watt LED + power supply. Without a reflector, it provides superior lighting to a standard 500 Watt halogen lamp (with reflector). I took a couple of photos and found that the camera saw things differently to the human eye. Although the halogen was distinctly yellow and the LED very white, the amount of illumination was similar. You're right should have compared lumens earlier on. The maker's website http://www.lithonia.com/commercial/2....VDrPJ 1fDuM0 says about the one I was interested in "Each head contains (3) 4780K high performance LEDs. Lumen output of 1,222 " That's total for both heads. 1719 Lumens for a 3-head version. Then I looked at 100 watt incandescent. Between 1000 and 1500 lumen times 2 bulbs = 2000 to 3000 lumen. So I don't know whether to buy 1222 LED lumens for $117 or 1719 lumens for $150. Or stay with incandescent for maybe $35 and hope they don't burn out so fast if I get a good brand that doesn't turn on with the wind. I almost never go there at night so if they don't turn on in the wind, they'll burn less than 5 hours a year 2000 hour lifespan will be 400 years. Ugh. |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On 10/13/2014, 2:31 PM, micky wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 08:58:56 +1100, Trevor Wilson wrote: **In general terms, halogen flood lights are capable of between 5 ~ 10 Lumens/Watt. Good quality LEDs can manage between 100 ~ 120 Lumens/Watt. I recently purchased a cheap, Chinese 100 Watt LED + power supply. Without a reflector, it provides superior lighting to a standard 500 Watt halogen lamp (with reflector). I took a couple of photos and found that the camera saw things differently to the human eye. Although the halogen was distinctly yellow and the LED very white, the amount of illumination was similar. You're right should have compared lumens earlier on. The maker's website http://www.lithonia.com/commercial/2....VDrPJ 1fDuM0 says about the one I was interested in "Each head contains (3) 4780K high performance LEDs. Lumen output of 1,222 " That's total for both heads. 1719 Lumens for a 3-head version. Then I looked at 100 watt incandescent. Between 1000 and 1500 lumen times 2 bulbs = 2000 to 3000 lumen. So I don't know whether to buy 1222 LED lumens for $117 or 1719 lumens for $150. Or stay with incandescent for maybe $35 and hope they don't burn out so fast if I get a good brand that doesn't turn on with the wind. I almost never go there at night so if they don't turn on in the wind, they'll burn less than 5 hours a year 2000 hour lifespan will be 400 years. Ugh. 50W LED flood is around 4,000 Lumens...and you can get them for around $80USD @ Home Depot. Do try to get ones that are UL (or CSA for Canada) approved for safety's sake. John :-#)# -- (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On 14/10/2014 6:45 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
Trevor Wilson wrote: On 13/10/2014 8:58 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote: **In general terms, halogen flood lights are capable of between 5 ~ 10 Lumens/Watt. **Oops. Make that 15 ~ 20 Lumens/Watt. Still quite mediocre. I've been building my own LED retrofits for indoor lighting, using Cree 100 Lm/W LEDs. When you add the power supply, you are down to 80 Lm/W or so, but that is still pretty good, even better than good CFLs. **Indeed, but that is one crappy power supply you're using. My 100 Watt LED modules (cheap, Chinese stuff) are supplied with a constant current power supply that runs around 95% efficiency. Dunno about the final Lumens/Watt figure though. I don't trust the Chinese figures supplied with the LED module. I do know that the thing is plenty bright though. FWIW: I retro-fitted electronic ballasts to my workshop 2 X 37 Watt (4 foot, NEC HGX) linear fluoros a few years back. Very impressive reduction in power demands. 96 Watts down to 78 Watts. 3,740 Lumens/tube (according to NEC). 95 Lumens/Watt (when the tubes are new, of course). Not too shabby. I tried a couple of those LED fluoro replacements, but I don't much care for them, compared to the NEC Quad phosphor units. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 15:11:51 -0700, John Robertson
wrote: On 10/13/2014, 2:31 PM, micky wrote: On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 08:58:56 +1100, Trevor Wilson wrote: **In general terms, halogen flood lights are capable of between 5 ~ 10 Lumens/Watt. Good quality LEDs can manage between 100 ~ 120 Lumens/Watt. I recently purchased a cheap, Chinese 100 Watt LED + power supply. Without a reflector, it provides superior lighting to a standard 500 Watt halogen lamp (with reflector). I took a couple of photos and found that the camera saw things differently to the human eye. Although the halogen was distinctly yellow and the LED very white, the amount of illumination was similar. You're right should have compared lumens earlier on. The maker's website http://www.lithonia.com/commercial/2....VDrPJ 1fDuM0 says about the one I was interested in "Each head contains (3) 4780K high performance LEDs. Lumen output of 1,222 " That's total for both heads. 1719 Lumens for a 3-head version. Then I looked at 100 watt incandescent. Between 1000 and 1500 lumen times 2 bulbs = 2000 to 3000 lumen. So I don't know whether to buy 1222 LED lumens for $117 or 1719 lumens for $150. These are Home Depot prices. Or stay with incandescent for maybe $35 and hope they don't burn out so fast if I get a good brand that doesn't turn on with the wind. I almost never go there at night so if they don't turn on in the wind, they'll burn less than 5 hours a year 2000 hour lifespan will be 400 years. Ugh. 50W LED flood is around 4,000 Lumens...and you can get them for around $80USD @ Home Depot. With motion sensor and light sensorr? I really don't think so. $117 was the cheapest I found there, and it was only 1222 lumen total from the two "heads". Do try to get ones that are UL (or CSA for Canada) approved for safety's sake. John :-#)# |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On 14/10/2014 6:45 AM, Jon Elson wrote:
Trevor Wilson wrote: On 13/10/2014 8:58 AM, Trevor Wilson wrote: **In general terms, halogen flood lights are capable of between 5 ~ 10 Lumens/Watt. **Oops. Make that 15 ~ 20 Lumens/Watt. Still quite mediocre. I've been building my own LED retrofits for indoor lighting, using Cree 100 Lm/W LEDs. When you add the power supply, you are down to 80 Lm/W or so, but that is still pretty good, even better than good CFLs. **Indeed, but that is one crappy power supply you're using. My 100 Watt LED modules (cheap, Chinese stuff) are supplied with a constant current power supply that runs around 95% efficiency. Dunno about the final Lumens/Watt figure though. I don't trust the Chinese figures supplied with the LED module. I do know that the thing is plenty bright though. FWIW: I retro-fitted electronic ballasts to my workshop 2 X 37 Watt (4 foot, NEC HGX) linear fluoros a few years back. Very impressive reduction in power demands. 96 Watts down to 78 Watts. 3,740 Lumens/tube (according to NEC). 95 Lumens/Watt (when the tubes are new, of course). Not too shabby. I tried a couple of those LED fluoro replacements, but I don't much care for them, compared to the NEC Quad phosphor units. -- Trevor Wilson www.rageaudio.com.au |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On 10/14/2014 2:43 AM, Charlie+ wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 09:07:01 -0700, Jeff Liebermann wrote as underneath : My solution to the hot water problem is a nuclear powered water heater. Just a lump of some isotope that produces heat while breaking down. Fukushima should have plenty of the stuff worth mining. The nuclear water heater would be lead lined and buried for safety. Water temperature would be regulated by adding or removing radioactive pellets. There are also some safety issues that will need to be addressed. Actually, this is all academic as we're having a water shortage in California and unless it rains this winter, there isn't going to be any water to heat. Meanwhile, I'll probably just do a better job of insulating the tank and hot water pipes and wait patiently for the rain and a nuclear water heater. Interesting, I am UK based and energy costs here are probably much higher here than in US which may alter the costings so much that a heat pump wont be feasible for you... Here is a link for info that might help: http://www.wharfplumbing.co.uk/wp-co...-Pump-Docs.zip I checked with Ebay.com and ebay.co.uk - completely different answers if you feed in 'air source/water heat pump'. The low cost heatpumps are mostly produced in China anyway and I guess many are sold in the US for pool heating and air conditioning? But if your electricity costs are low then the payback time on the equipment may not make sense just for a little domestic hot water... Ground source is much more expensive on the outlay than air source! C+ I'd suggest to buy one, and try it in some sort of fixture, before going up the pole. I'd dare to guess the answer is yes, but you'd have to try it for yourself. .. Christopher A. Young Learn about Jesus www.lds.org .. |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 07:43:04 +0100, Charlie+ wrote:
Interesting, I am UK based and energy costs here are probably much higher here than in US which may alter the costings so much that a heat pump wont be feasible for you... True. The alleged savings of a heat pump water heater would be in the reduced operating costs due to improved efficiency. My hot water usage is so small that the initial entry costs (equipment, installation, plumbing, and permits) would negate any short term savings. Short term is important as I'm 66 years old, and would not want to invest in a technology with a break even point that occurs after I'm dead. I would do better with short term solutions, such as better tank and plumbing insulation, which provide an immediate savings with a minimal investment. (Actually, I'm looking for an excuse to buy a FLIR thermal camera to play with). Here is a link for info that might help: http://www.wharfplumbing.co.uk/wp-co...-Pump-Docs.zip Thanks. The plumbing diagram of a complete systems, with gas water heater backup, and a typical installation, was sufficient to convince me this was not an option for me. The amount of construction involved in the installation alone is more than I could justify. I suspect that an air source water heating system would be more suitable for a larger installation, or for where the cost of electricity is much higher. I checked with Ebay.com and ebay.co.uk - completely different answers if you feed in 'air source/water heat pump'. The low cost heatpumps are mostly produced in China anyway and I guess many are sold in the US for pool heating and air conditioning? I don't know, but that seems likely. Swimming pool heating, hot tubs, air conditioning, and apartment building water heating seem like a better fit, where the savings in electricity would be larger than the amortized initial investment. Incidentally, you might be amused at how water heaters are rated and priced. A few years ago, the bottom of my 40 gallon electric water heater filled with calcium carbonate causing the lower heating element to blow out. It was rusted in place and not easily replaced. The heater was old, so I decided a new heater was best. I went to the local Home Depot store and noticed that heaters were rated and priced by their warranty life as 6, 9, and 12 year heaters. Current prices a http://www.homedepot.com/b/Plumbing-Water-Heaters-Residential-Electric/N-5yc1vZc1u1Z2bcu0t?NCNI-5 $248, $338, and $548 respectively. I asked what was the difference and received a few bad guesses. The weight of these heaters was exactly the same, so there was no difference in tank design or construction. The 6 year heater used lower power elements, but that shouldn't effect the cost. I eventually determined that the primary difference was the anode protection rod in each heater. The 6 year heater used a very small anode rod. The 9 year used a much larger anode. The 12 year had dual anodes. The problem was the rods cost about $25/each which is reflected in the $100 to $200 price difference between the three models. The 6 year heater had the port for the 2nd anode sealed shut, so I bought the 9 year model, and added a 2nd anode for a cost of about $25. Net savings from the 12 year model: $548 - $338 - $25 = $185 I also installed a permanent drain line, so that the calcium carbonate will not accumulate again. But if your electricity costs are low then the payback time on the equipment may not make sense just for a little domestic hot water... Ground source is much more expensive on the outlay than air source! C+ Yep. That's the problem. The most efficient system is not always the most economical. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On Sun, 12 Oct 2014 19:57:42 -0400, micky
wrote: On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 01:06:30 +0200, nestork wrote: I have a Pelican flashlight with a single LED light source. That flashlight is brighter than the old equivalent model Pelican Flashlights with the incandescent bulbs. So, yes, LED's can be brighter than incandescent bulbs. I expect you'll have no problems with the LED flood light. Thanks all. It turns out this time that the HD price is the same as Amazon, maybe less, but I just went to the store** and it wasn't in stock. I'm in no hurry. I'll ship it to the store, or maybe to my house (over 50 dollars shipping is free) BTW, it got quite a few complaints about strobing or breaking within a year on the Amazon site (and also on the HD site that was hard to read) but overall still scored a 4.8 out of 5 (which should really be 3.8 out of 4) **HD didn't have any LED Lithonia floodlights, even though they had a 6 foot wide section, 15 feet high, of Lithonia floodlights etc. Including a motion sensor that would wirelessly turn on an off mulitple light sockets. And another one that would turn on and off a receptacle, and beep when it did so. WRT lights for the front door, they had Zenith/Heath that had low lighting for 2, 4 hours or all night, and high lighting if the motion sensor saw something. And some of the lights by Hampton Bay (house brand?) had sensor that could control 325 watts, even though the most that could be used in the light was 100. The other 225 could be elsewhere, powered by the extra red wire. Lighting has gotten more complicated since last I looked. If you are sensitive to strobing you should be wary of lights that others complain of strobing . Some fluorescent lights I have appear to flicker in my peripheral vision. Not only is this distracting just because of the flickering or strobing, I also find myself constantly looking for whatever is moving. Using incandescent lighting along with fluorescent lighting cures the strobing or flickering effect for me so I have both in my shop. I can't detect the strobing by looking directly at the lights, it is only in my peripheral vision. This of course makes sense. I want to change to LED lighting and have been looking at several types and brands of lighting. Part of the problem is getting lighting that is the right color for me. The industry seems to be making LED lighting now that is pretty good for most folks so I am hopeful that in the near future I will be able to convert my machine shop and house to LEDs. Eric |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
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Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On 10/14/2014, 7:13 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 07:43:04 +0100, Charlie+ wrote: Interesting, I am UK based and energy costs here are probably much higher here than in US which may alter the costings so much that a heat pump wont be feasible for you... .... Incidentally, you might be amused at how water heaters are rated and priced. A few years ago, the bottom of my 40 gallon electric water heater filled with calcium carbonate causing the lower heating element to blow out. It was rusted in place and not easily replaced. The heater was old, so I decided a new heater was best. I went to the local Home Depot store and noticed that heaters were rated and priced by their warranty life as 6, 9, and 12 year heaters. Current prices a http://www.homedepot.com/b/Plumbing-Water-Heaters-Residential-Electric/N-5yc1vZc1u1Z2bcu0t?NCNI-5 $248, $338, and $548 respectively. I asked what was the difference and received a few bad guesses. The weight of these heaters was exactly the same, so there was no difference in tank design or construction. The 6 year heater used lower power elements, but that shouldn't effect the cost. I eventually determined that the primary difference was the anode protection rod in each heater. The 6 year heater used a very small anode rod. The 9 year used a much larger anode. The 12 year had dual anodes. The problem was the rods cost about $25/each which is reflected in the $100 to $200 price difference between the three models. The 6 year heater had the port for the 2nd anode sealed shut, so I bought the 9 year model, and added a 2nd anode for a cost of about $25. Net savings from the 12 year model: $548 - $338 - $25 = $185 I also installed a permanent drain line, so that the calcium carbonate will not accumulate again. Of course you should change your anode every few years - assuming you can extract it. The house we bought last summer has a replaceable anode but I can't unscrew it. The tank will fail in a year or two, but then I'm looking for one with a replaceable anode and do a bi-annual change. John :-#)# But if your electricity costs are low then the payback time on the equipment may not make sense just for a little domestic hot water... Ground source is much more expensive on the outlay than air source! C+ Yep. That's the problem. The most efficient system is not always the most economical. -- (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the newsgroup) John's Jukes Ltd. 2343 Main St., Vancouver, BC, Canada V5T 3C9 (604)872-5757 or Fax 872-2010 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games) www.flippers.com "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out." |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On Tue, 14 Oct 2014 20:32:01 -0700, John Robertson
wrote: Of course you should change your anode every few years - assuming you can extract it. The house we bought last summer has a replaceable anode but I can't unscrew it. The tank will fail in a year or two, but then I'm looking for one with a replaceable anode and do a bi-annual change. I learned a few lessons trying to extract the anode rod from the old tank. With the tank empty, a long handled "torque amplifier" did a great job of twisting the water heater jacket into a simulated pretzel. I didn't know I was that strong. It might have survived if it had water inside and I didn't put my foot on the jacket when applying brute force. Learn by Destroying(tm). When I mentioned the problem to a plumber, he indicated that it was a common problem, and that an electric or pneumatic impact wrench works much better. I didn't have a reason to try it, so I don't know if that's really a good idea. Also, when I installed the 2nd anode rod, I smeared it with some edible grease. Insulating it with Teflon tape doesn't seem like a good idea. In a year or two, try the impact wrench. I found some instructions on how to remove the rod, which recommends WD-40 and an impact wrench. Getting the WD-40 out of the water is going to be interesting since it's not water soluble. http://waterheatertimer.org/Replace-anode-rod.html In my derangement, I didn't have enough clearance above the water heater to insert or remove the rod. They make anodes that are on a chain to make it possible to replace them without proper clearance, but I didn't buy one of those. So, I tipped over the water heater, inserted the 2nd rod, tipped it back up, and continued the installation. When it's time to replace either rod, I'll need to drain the heater, disconnect everything, tip it over again, and extract the rods. Not fun, bad planning, etc. I'm not sure of the exact anode replacement interval. The previous water heater lasted about 15 years before the lime accumulation killed the lower heater element. I assume the lifetime is affected by whatever is in the water. Inspecting the anode rod would be helpful, but if it's stuck or difficult to remove, that might be difficult. Good luck and how did we get from LED lighting to water heaters? -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
Can and LED floodlight possibly be as bright as a real floodlight?
On Wed, 15 Oct 2014 07:59:20 +0100, Charlie+ wrote:
What are these tanks made of that they need sacrificial anodes (of magnesium etc. I assume)? As far as I know over here most/all these type of tanks and cylinders are Cu sheet and have no anodes of this type.. ! Informative post tho! C+ Not copper. That would be far too expensive. The tank is made from steel, which is either enamel or glass coated for protection. The problem is that the glass or enamel can crack (or micro-crack) allowing the water to contact the steel and eventually corrode a hole in the tank. The sacrificial anode corrodes instead of the steel tank. It's exactly the same as the common zinc sacrificial anode used to protect steel hulls on boats. Note: I am not a plumber, expert on hot water tanks, or hydraulic engineer. I just happen to have had some experience replacing my water tank twice in 35 years and found it useful to first read the available literature before making any more mistakes. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
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