Any easy/cheap way to determine where restriction in water servicemay be?
 

Hi all,

Friend's house, complaint is that it is literally impossible to use more than one appliance or faucet at any time due to low water pressure. Asked me if I had any ideas, I said I'd look at it. Finally dug out a pressure gauge and stopped by with it. What I found was that the resting pressure is 90 PSI at the base of the water heater tank, but it drops to about 20 PSI when the clothes washer is filling and it fills very slowly. This seems to indicate to me that there is a massive restriction somewhere upstream of the water heater. My best guess is that it is actually between the street and the house, but that is just a guess as I cannot visually inspect all of the water lines between the main shutoff and the water heater (it's not near an outside wall) nor do I have any idea in what condition they are inside. Just to include as much info as possible, I suspect the house was built in the late 60's or early 70's and all the visible plumbing is copper. I see no evidence of a pressure reducing valve or backflow preventer anywhere.

Is there anything that I can do to confirm/deny my suspicions, or is it time to simply "let the pros handle it"?

thanks

nate

Any easy/cheap way to determine where restriction in water servicemay be?
 

On 7/31/14, 4:47 PM, N8N wrote:
Hi all,

Friend's house, complaint is that it is literally impossible to use more than one appliance or faucet at any time due to low water pressure. Asked me if I had any ideas, I said I'd look at it. Finally dug out a pressure gauge and stopped by with it. What I found was that the resting pressure is 90 PSI at the base of the water heater tank, but it drops to about 20 PSI when the clothes washer is filling and it fills very slowly. This seems to indicate to me that there is a massive restriction somewhere upstream of the water heater. My best guess is that it is actually between the street and the house, but that is just a guess as I cannot visually inspect all of the water lines between the main shutoff and the water heater (it's not near an outside wall) nor do I have any idea in what condition they are inside. Just to include as much info as possible, I suspect the house was built in the late 60's or early 70's and all the visible plumbing is copper. I see no evidence of a pres
sure reducing valve or backflow preventer anywhere.

Is there anything that I can do to confirm/deny my suspicions, or is it time to simply "let the pros handle it"?

thanks

nate


No mention of the main "whole house" shutoff valve. Did you find it ?
Is it fully open ??

Any easy/cheap way to determine where restriction in water servicemay be?
 

On 7/31/2014 1:47 PM, N8N wrote:
Hi all,

Friend's house, complaint is that it is literally impossible to use more than one appliance or faucet at any time due to low water pressure. Asked me if I had any ideas, I said I'd look at it. Finally dug out a pressure gauge and stopped by with it. What I found was that the resting pressure is 90 PSI at the base of the water heater tank, but it drops to about 20 PSI when the clothes washer is filling and it fills very slowly. This seems to indicate to me that there is a massive restriction somewhere upstream of the water heater. My best guess is that it is actually between the street and the house, but that is just a guess as I cannot visually inspect all of the water lines between the main shutoff and the water heater (it's not near an outside wall) nor do I have any idea in what condition they are inside. Just to include as much info as possible, I suspect the house was built in the late 60's or early 70's and all the visible plumbing is copper. I see no evidence of a pr
essure reducing valve or backflow preventer anywhere.

Is there anything that I can do to confirm/deny my suspicions, or is it time to simply "let the pros handle it"?

thanks

nate

Does he have the same problem with an outside water faucet? Put a hose
on the hot water tank drain. Run other end outside and turn the drain
faucet on.

If both give full stream, then the problem is the water heater outlet.

If only outside has full stream, get a new water heater.

Paul, KD7HB

Any easy/cheap way to determine where restriction in waterservice may be?
 

On Thursday, July 31, 2014 4:56:00 PM UTC-4, Retired wrote:
On 7/31/14, 4:47 PM, N8N wrote:

Hi all,



Friend's house, complaint is that it is literally impossible to use more than one appliance or faucet at any time due to low water pressure. Asked me if I had any ideas, I said I'd look at it. Finally dug out a pressure gauge and stopped by with it. What I found was that the resting pressure is 90 PSI at the base of the water heater tank, but it drops to about 20 PSI when the clothes washer is filling and it fills very slowly. This seems to indicate to me that there is a massive restriction somewhere upstream of the water heater. My best guess is that it is actually between the street and the house, but that is just a guess as I cannot visually inspect all of the water lines between the main shutoff and the water heater (it's not near an outside wall) nor do I have any idea in what condition they are inside. Just to include as much info as possible, I suspect the house was built in the late 60's or early 70's and all the visible plumbing is copper. I see no evidence of a pres

sure reducing valve or backflow preventer anywhere.



Is there anything that I can do to confirm/deny my suspicions, or is it time to simply "let the pros handle it"?



thanks



nate





No mention of the main "whole house" shutoff valve. Did you find it ?

Is it fully open ??

Wow.

Normally, I'd respond with a snide comment BUT... I think you may have got it!

I'm posting from that house as I'm still there helping out with some other stuff.

I'd previously located the main shutoff - big (1"? Larger than 3/4" anyway) ball valve in the coat closet behind a nasty unclosed hole in the drywall. Your comment made me go look there again, and down by the floor there was a wooden access panel. So I removed that and behind there was ANOTHER valve, an old stop valve this time.

It was barely cracked open...

one of her roommates was doing laundry so when I heard the washer start to fill I ran over to the water heater and my gauge was showing about 84 PSI.

Flushing an upstairs toilet, turning on the faucet, and turning on the shower simultaneously seemed to indicate that that was the issue. Maybe someone had shut that valve in a misguided attempt to use it as a PRV as the pressure is really rather high?

I will advise that they get new washer hoses and possibly think long term about installing a PRV as 90ish does seem to border on scary. My old place was 80 PSI and that made for badass showers, but I knew full well that on 70 year old piping it was a crapshoot not installing a PRV. However, as it is a three story house, the high pressure may be appreciated...

Sometimes fixes really are easy? I'm on a roll here :)

nate

Any easy/cheap way to determine where restriction in water servicemay be?
 

N8N wrote:
On Thursday, July 31, 2014 4:56:00 PM UTC-4, Retired wrote:
On 7/31/14, 4:47 PM, N8N wrote:

Hi all,



Friend's house, complaint is that it is literally impossible to use more than one appliance or faucet at any time due to low water pressure. Asked me if I had any ideas, I said I'd look at it. Finally dug out a pressure gauge and stopped by with it. What I found was that the resting pressure is 90 PSI at the base of the water heater tank, but it drops to about 20 PSI when the clothes washer is filling and it fills very slowly. This seems to indicate to me that there is a massive restriction somewhere upstream of the water heater. My best guess is that it is actually between the street and the house, but that is just a guess as I cannot visually inspect all of the water lines between the main shutoff and the water heater (it's not near an outside wall) nor do I have any idea in what condition they are inside. Just to include as much info as possible, I suspect the house was built in the late 60's or early 70's and all the visible plumbing is copper. I see no evidence of a
pres

sure reducing valve or backflow preventer anywhere.



Is there anything that I can do to confirm/deny my suspicions, or is it time to simply "let the pros handle it"?



thanks



nate





No mention of the main "whole house" shutoff valve. Did you find it ?

Is it fully open ??

Wow.

Normally, I'd respond with a snide comment BUT... I think you may have got it!

I'm posting from that house as I'm still there helping out with some other stuff.

I'd previously located the main shutoff - big (1"? Larger than 3/4" anyway) ball valve in the coat closet behind a nasty unclosed hole in the drywall. Your comment made me go look there again, and down by the floor there was a wooden access panel. So I removed that and behind there was ANOTHER valve, an old stop valve this time.

It was barely cracked open...

one of her roommates was doing laundry so when I heard the washer start to fill I ran over to the water heater and my gauge was showing about 84 PSI.

Flushing an upstairs toilet, turning on the faucet, and turning on the shower simultaneously seemed to indicate that that was the issue. Maybe someone had shut that valve in a misguided attempt to use it as a PRV as the pressure is really rather high?

I will advise that they get new washer hoses and possibly think long term about installing a PRV as 90ish does seem to border on scary. My old place was 80 PSI and that made for badass showers, but I knew full well that on 70 year old piping it was a crapshoot not installing a PRV. However, as it is a three story house, the high pressure may be appreciated...

Sometimes fixes really are easy? I'm on a roll here :)

nate

Hi,
You mean they always had pressure problem or it started some time ago.
If latter, surely some one touched the valve......

Any easy/cheap way to determine where restriction in waterservice may be?
 

On Thursday, July 31, 2014 5:17:48 PM UTC-4, Tony Hwang wrote:
N8N wrote:

On Thursday, July 31, 2014 4:56:00 PM UTC-4, Retired wrote:

On 7/31/14, 4:47 PM, N8N wrote:



Hi all,







Friend's house, complaint is that it is literally impossible to use more than one appliance or faucet at any time due to low water pressure. Asked me if I had any ideas, I said I'd look at it. Finally dug out a pressure gauge and stopped by with it. What I found was that the resting pressure is 90 PSI at the base of the water heater tank, but it drops to about 20 PSI when the clothes washer is filling and it fills very slowly. This seems to indicate to me that there is a massive restriction somewhere upstream of the water heater. My best guess is that it is actually between the street and the house, but that is just a guess as I cannot visually inspect all of the water lines between the main shutoff and the water heater (it's not near an outside wall) nor do I have any idea in what condition they are inside. Just to include as much info as possible, I suspect the house was built in the late 60's or early 70's and all the visible plumbing is copper. I see no evidence of a

pres



sure reducing valve or backflow preventer anywhere.







Is there anything that I can do to confirm/deny my suspicions, or is it time to simply "let the pros handle it"?







thanks







nate











No mention of the main "whole house" shutoff valve. Did you find it ?



Is it fully open ??



Wow.



Normally, I'd respond with a snide comment BUT... I think you may have got it!



I'm posting from that house as I'm still there helping out with some other stuff.



I'd previously located the main shutoff - big (1"? Larger than 3/4" anyway) ball valve in the coat closet behind a nasty unclosed hole in the drywall. Your comment made me go look there again, and down by the floor there was a wooden access panel. So I removed that and behind there was ANOTHER valve, an old stop valve this time.



It was barely cracked open...



one of her roommates was doing laundry so when I heard the washer start to fill I ran over to the water heater and my gauge was showing about 84 PSI.



Flushing an upstairs toilet, turning on the faucet, and turning on the shower simultaneously seemed to indicate that that was the issue. Maybe someone had shut that valve in a misguided attempt to use it as a PRV as the pressure is really rather high?



I will advise that they get new washer hoses and possibly think long term about installing a PRV as 90ish does seem to border on scary. My old place was 80 PSI and that made for badass showers, but I knew full well that on 70 year old piping it was a crapshoot not installing a PRV. However, as it is a three story house, the high pressure may be appreciated...



Sometimes fixes really are easy? I'm on a roll here :)



nate



Hi,

You mean they always had pressure problem or it started some time ago.

If latter, surely some one touched the valve......

Old-ish house, but current occupants have only been there less than a year. No idea when the issue started, it's always been there as far as they know.

I'm quite sure someone touched the valve, *guessing* maybe landlord, house was previously a rental? attempt to curb water use on a utilities-included lease? Or someone was aware of the high pressure coming off the street and didn't understand that static pressure wouldn't change if flow were restricted? Who knows. just hope it's fixed now, and I'm feeling good :)

nate

Any easy/cheap way to determine where restriction in water service may be?
 

"N8N" wrote in message
...
Hi all,

{snip}

Is there anything that I can do to confirm/deny my suspicions, or is it time
to simply "let the pros handle it"?


BWAH HAH HAH HAH!!!! GOOD ONE!!!

Any easy/cheap way to determine where restriction in water servicemay be?
 

N8N wrote:
On Thursday, July 31, 2014 5:17:48 PM UTC-4, Tony Hwang wrote:
N8N wrote:

On Thursday, July 31, 2014 4:56:00 PM UTC-4, Retired wrote:

On 7/31/14, 4:47 PM, N8N wrote:



Hi all,







Friend's house, complaint is that it is literally impossible to use more than one appliance or faucet at any time due to low water pressure. Asked me if I had any ideas, I said I'd look at it. Finally dug out a pressure gauge and stopped by with it. What I found was that the resting pressure is 90 PSI at the base of the water heater tank, but it drops to about 20 PSI when the clothes washer is filling and it fills very slowly. This seems to indicate to me that there is a massive restriction somewhere upstream of the water heater. My best guess is that it is actually between the street and the house, but that is just a guess as I cannot visually inspect all of the water lines between the main shutoff and the water heater (it's not near an outside wall) nor do I have any idea in what condition they are inside. Just to include as much info as possible, I suspect the house was built in the late 60's or early 70's and all the visible plumbing is copper. I see no evidence of
a

pres



sure reducing valve or backflow preventer anywhere.







Is there anything that I can do to confirm/deny my suspicions, or is it time to simply "let the pros handle it"?







thanks







nate











No mention of the main "whole house" shutoff valve. Did you find it ?



Is it fully open ??



Wow.



Normally, I'd respond with a snide comment BUT... I think you may have got it!



I'm posting from that house as I'm still there helping out with some other stuff.



I'd previously located the main shutoff - big (1"? Larger than 3/4" anyway) ball valve in the coat closet behind a nasty unclosed hole in the drywall. Your comment made me go look there again, and down by the floor there was a wooden access panel. So I removed that and behind there was ANOTHER valve, an old stop valve this time.



It was barely cracked open...



one of her roommates was doing laundry so when I heard the washer start to fill I ran over to the water heater and my gauge was showing about 84 PSI.



Flushing an upstairs toilet, turning on the faucet, and turning on the shower simultaneously seemed to indicate that that was the issue. Maybe someone had shut that valve in a misguided attempt to use it as a PRV as the pressure is really rather high?



I will advise that they get new washer hoses and possibly think long term about installing a PRV as 90ish does seem to border on scary. My old place was 80 PSI and that made for badass showers, but I knew full well that on 70 year old piping it was a crapshoot not installing a PRV. However, as it is a three story house, the high pressure may be appreciated...



Sometimes fixes really are easy? I'm on a roll here :)



nate



Hi,

You mean they always had pressure problem or it started some time ago.

If latter, surely some one touched the valve......

Old-ish house, but current occupants have only been there less than a year. No idea when the issue started, it's always been there as far as they know.

I'm quite sure someone touched the valve, *guessing* maybe landlord, house was previously a rental? attempt to curb water use on a utilities-included lease? Or someone was aware of the high pressure coming off the street and didn't understand that static pressure wouldn't change if flow were restricted? Who knows. just hope it's fixed now, and I'm feeling good :)

nate

Hi,
One "Atta boy for you", LOL! Our PRV is set at 60 psi when running
water. Incoming pressure is over 100 psi. Fairly new neighborhood.
Houses are all less than 20 YO.

Any easy/cheap way to determine where restriction in water servicemay be?
 

On 7/31/14, 5:09 PM, N8N wrote:
On Thursday, July 31, 2014 4:56:00 PM UTC-4, Retired wrote:
On 7/31/14, 4:47 PM, N8N wrote:

Hi all,



Friend's house, complaint is that it is literally impossible to use more than one appliance or faucet at any time due to low water pressure. Asked me if I had any ideas, I said I'd look at it. Finally dug out a pressure gauge and stopped by with it. What I found was that the resting pressure is 90 PSI at the base of the water heater tank, but it drops to about 20 PSI when the clothes washer is filling and it fills very slowly. This seems to indicate to me that there is a massive restriction somewhere upstream of the water heater. My best guess is that it is actually between the street and the house, but that is just a guess as I cannot visually inspect all of the water lines between the main shutoff and the water heater (it's not near an outside wall) nor do I have any idea in what condition they are inside. Just to include as much info as possible, I suspect the house was built in the late 60's or early 70's and all the visible plumbing is copper. I see no evidence of a pr
es

sure reducing valve or backflow preventer anywhere.



Is there anything that I can do to confirm/deny my suspicions, or is it time to simply "let the pros handle it"?



thanks



nate





No mention of the main "whole house" shutoff valve. Did you find it ?

Is it fully open ??

Wow.

Normally, I'd respond with a snide comment BUT... I think you may have got it!

I'm posting from that house as I'm still there helping out with some other stuff.

I'd previously located the main shutoff - big (1"? Larger than 3/4" anyway) ball valve in the coat closet behind a nasty unclosed hole in the drywall. Your comment made me go look there again, and down by the floor there was a wooden access panel. So I removed that and behind there was ANOTHER valve, an old stop valve this time.

It was barely cracked open...

one of her roommates was doing laundry so when I heard the washer start to fill I ran over to the water heater and my gauge was showing about 84 PSI.

Flushing an upstairs toilet, turning on the faucet, and turning on the shower simultaneously seemed to indicate that that was the issue. Maybe someone had shut that valve in a misguided attempt to use it as a PRV as the pressure is really rather high?

I will advise that they get new washer hoses and possibly think long term about installing a PRV as 90ish does seem to border on scary. My old place was 80 PSI and that made for badass showers, but I knew full well that on 70 year old piping it was a crapshoot not installing a PRV. However, as it is a three story house, the high pressure may be appreciated...

Sometimes fixes really are easy? I'm on a roll here :)

nate


Glad to help...sometimes we get lucky..........

Any easy/cheap way to determine where restriction in water service may be?
 

N8N wrote:
On Thursday, July 31, 2014 5:17:48 PM UTC-4, Tony Hwang wrote:
N8N wrote:
You mean they always had pressure problem or it started some time
ago.

If latter, surely some one touched the valve......

Old-ish house, but current occupants have only been there less than a
year. No idea when the issue started, it's always been there as far
as they know.

I'm quite sure someone touched the valve, *guessing* maybe landlord,
house was previously a rental? attempt to curb water use on a
utilities-included lease? Or someone was aware of the high pressure
coming off the street and didn't understand that static pressure
wouldn't change if flow were restricted? Who knows. just hope it's
fixed now, and I'm feeling good :)

Do check that the old valve is not leaking. It's possible that they closed it
enough that a leak on the valve went away.

Any easy/cheap way to determine where restriction in waterservice may be?
 

On Thursday, July 31, 2014 7:54:32 PM UTC-4, Bob F wrote:
N8N wrote:

On Thursday, July 31, 2014 5:17:48 PM UTC-4, Tony Hwang wrote:

N8N wrote:

You mean they always had pressure problem or it started some time

ago.



If latter, surely some one touched the valve......



Old-ish house, but current occupants have only been there less than a

year. No idea when the issue started, it's always been there as far

as they know.



I'm quite sure someone touched the valve, *guessing* maybe landlord,

house was previously a rental? attempt to curb water use on a

utilities-included lease? Or someone was aware of the high pressure

coming off the street and didn't understand that static pressure

wouldn't change if flow were restricted? Who knows. just hope it's

fixed now, and I'm feeling good :)



Do check that the old valve is not leaking. It's possible that they closed it

enough that a leak on the valve went away.

I thought of that... ran out after I posted last night to hook up an icemaker for *another* friend in the area, but this AM checked the stop valve and my pressure gauge. Stem is bone dry on valve, but gauge is still holding at 90
PSI with the telltale sitting at 105. That seems really high even for someone willing to live dangerously, yes?

nate

Any easy/cheap way to determine where restriction in water servicemay be?
 

On 08/01/2014 7:27 AM, N8N wrote:
....

... gauge is still holding at 90 PSI with the telltale sitting at
105. That seems really high even for someone willing to live
dangerously, yes?
....

Quite--like double. I'm extremely surprised they've not blown out
toilet valves, etc., routinely at those pressures altho perhaps the
secret has been that restriction dropped pressure when running so only
static pressure has/is so terribly high.

It's definitely time for the PRV...

--

Any easy/cheap way to determine where restriction in water service may be?
 

On Fri, 01 Aug 2014 07:46:40 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 08/01/2014 7:27 AM, N8N wrote:
...

... gauge is still holding at 90 PSI with the telltale sitting at
105. That seems really high even for someone willing to live
dangerously, yes?
...

Quite--like double. I'm extremely surprised they've not blown out
toilet valves, etc., routinely at those pressures altho perhaps the
secret has been that restriction dropped pressure when running so only
static pressure has/is so terribly high.

It's definitely time for the PRV...

82PSI is considered normal domestic water supply pressure here in
Waterloo Region (Ontario Canada) and 90 is NOT out of the ordinary.
A 150 ft tower will provide 65psi by gravity alone to houses built at
the same level. If the tower is on a hill 50 feet higher, ot a house
is in a valley 50 feet lower, you have over 85psi. Pressure reducing
valves are virtually unheard of here.

Any easy/cheap way to determine where restriction in waterservice may be?
 

On Friday, August 1, 2014 11:54:58 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 01 Aug 2014 07:46:40 -0500, dpb wrote:



On 08/01/2014 7:27 AM, N8N wrote:

...



... gauge is still holding at 90 PSI with the telltale sitting at

105. That seems really high even for someone willing to live

dangerously, yes?

...



Quite--like double. I'm extremely surprised they've not blown out

toilet valves, etc., routinely at those pressures altho perhaps the

secret has been that restriction dropped pressure when running so only

static pressure has/is so terribly high.



It's definitely time for the PRV...



82PSI is considered normal domestic water supply pressure here in

Waterloo Region (Ontario Canada) and 90 is NOT out of the ordinary.

A 150 ft tower will provide 65psi by gravity alone to houses built at

the same level. If the tower is on a hill 50 feet higher, ot a house

is in a valley 50 feet lower, you have over 85psi. Pressure reducing

valves are virtually unheard of here.

What are typical plumbing method/materials used in your area?

Everything I've read/heard says that normal DW pressure should be ~60 PSI or less. Personally I like a little higher for better showers, but not sure at what point "a little higher" becomes too much.

nate