Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel with a row of aerator tubes fastened around each head? The one I'm looking for is pulled by hand. I have too much area to cover for the foot-stomper type, but don't need to get a motorized version.

"Guv Bob" wrote in message ...
Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel with a row of aerator tubes fastened around each head? The one I'm looking for is pulled by hand. I have too much area to cover for the foot-stomper type, but don't need to get a motorized version.

I meant to say.... you fill the barrel up with water. Ends up weighing around 200 pounds.

On Friday, July 18, 2014 3:32:23 PM UTC-4, Guv Bob wrote:
"Guv Bob" wrote in message ...

Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel with a row of aerator tubes fastened around each head? The one I'm looking for is pulled by hand. I have too much area to cover for the foot-stomper type, but don't need to get a motorized version.



I meant to say.... you fill the barrel up with water. Ends up weighing around 200 pounds.

I just rent a motorized one for about $60 if I need it. Local rental
shop or HD. I can't imagine trying to pull a barrel filled with water that's
poking holes in the ground around by hand. Even the motorized ones
are a bitch to turn around. You sure what you think is for use by
hand isn't meant to be pulled by a tractor?

trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, July 18, 2014 3:32:23 PM UTC-4, Guv Bob wrote:
"Guv Bob" wrote in message ...

Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel with a row of aerator tubes fastened around each head? The one I'm looking for is pulled by hand. I have too much area to cover for the foot-stomper type, but don't need to get a motorized version.



I meant to say.... you fill the barrel up with water. Ends up weighing around 200 pounds.

I just rent a motorized one for about $60 if I need it. Local rental
shop or HD. I can't imagine trying to pull a barrel filled with water that's
poking holes in the ground around by hand. Even the motorized ones
are a bitch to turn around. You sure what you think is for use by
hand isn't meant to be pulled by a tractor?

Hi,
+1, specially when area to cover is large.

"Guv Bob" wrote:

Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel with a row
of aerator tubes fastened around each head? The one I'm looking for is pulled by hand.
I have too much area to cover for the foot-stomper type, but don't need to get a
motorized version.

I meant to say.... you fill the barrel up with water. Ends up weighing around 200 pounds.

I seriously doubt you are physically capable of moving that type of
aerator by hand unless it's always downhill and then it will aerate
you.
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...Id=6970&ipp=24

On Friday, July 18, 2014 4:59:10 PM UTC-4, Brooklyn1 wrote:
"Guv Bob" wrote:



Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel with a row

of aerator tubes fastened around each head? The one I'm looking for is pulled by hand.

I have too much area to cover for the foot-stomper type, but don't need to get a

motorized version.



I meant to say.... you fill the barrel up with water. Ends up weighing around 200 pounds.



I seriously doubt you are physically capable of moving that type of

aerator by hand unless it's always downhill and then it will aerate

you.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...Id=6970&ipp=24

Another difference is that barrel tow type doesn't cut plugs out, it
looks like it just puts blades into the ground. The rental ones actually
cut plugs out. I never paid much attention to how it works, but
presumably there must be something that forces the plug of dirt out
as it cycles around. You wind up with holes in the turf and plugs about
3/4" x 2" of soil.

trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, July 18, 2014 4:59:10 PM UTC-4, Brooklyn1 wrote:
"Guv Bob" wrote:



Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon
barrel with a row

of aerator tubes fastened around each head? The one I'm looking
for is pulled by hand.

I have too much area to cover for the foot-stomper type, but don't
need to get a

motorized version.



I meant to say.... you fill the barrel up with water. Ends up
weighing around 200 pounds.



I seriously doubt you are physically capable of moving that type of

aerator by hand unless it's always downhill and then it will aerate

you.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...Id=6970&ipp=24

Another difference is that barrel tow type doesn't cut plugs out, it
looks like it just puts blades into the ground. The rental ones
actually cut plugs out. I never paid much attention to how it works,
but presumably there must be something that forces the plug of dirt
out
as it cycles around. You wind up with holes in the turf and plugs
about 3/4" x 2" of soil.

Worms will do that for you unless you've poisoned the ground with chemical
insecticides .

--
Snag

trader_4 wrote:
On Friday, July 18, 2014 4:59:10 PM UTC-4, Brooklyn1 wrote:
"Guv Bob" wrote:



Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon
barrel with a row

of aerator tubes fastened around each head? The one I'm looking
for is pulled by hand.

I have too much area to cover for the foot-stomper type, but don't
need to get a

motorized version.



I meant to say.... you fill the barrel up with water. Ends up
weighing around 200 pounds.



I seriously doubt you are physically capable of moving that type of

aerator by hand unless it's always downhill and then it will aerate

you.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...Id=6970&ipp=24

Another difference is that barrel tow type doesn't cut plugs out, it
looks like it just puts blades into the ground. The rental ones
actually cut plugs out. I never paid much attention to how it works,
but presumably there must be something that forces the plug of dirt
out
as it cycles around. You wind up with holes in the turf and plugs
about 3/4" x 2" of soil.

I can't connect to that link for some reason - probably super slow Verizon....

Anyway, I'm thinking about putting something together that will take 1/2 x 4-inch plugs up. I don't know if this is what you mean -- the one plug pushes out the previous plug. I'm only looking for the kind that removes plugs - not spikes.

trader_4 wrote:
Another difference is that barrel tow type doesn't cut plugs out, it
looks like it just puts blades into the ground. The rental ones
actually cut plugs out. I never paid much attention to how it works,
but presumably there must be something that forces the plug of dirt
out
as it cycles around. You wind up with holes in the turf and plugs
about 3/4" x 2" of soil.

I believe the next plug forces the previous plug out. The plug cutter is
slightly tapered so they push out easily.

Now that we have all the comments and theories about aeration......

Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel filled with water with a row of aerator tubes fastened around each head pulled by hand? Less than 1000 sq ft and too hard for foot-stomper aerator.

"Guv Bob" wrote in message
news Now that we have all the comments and theories about aeration......

Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel
filled with water with a row of aerator tubes fastened around each head
pulled by hand? Less than 1000 sq ft and too hard for foot-stomper
aerator.


----------

how about a Tommy Gun?

On 8/6/14, 3:19 PM, Guv Bob wrote:
Now that we have all the comments and theories about aeration......

Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel filled with water with a row of aerator tubes fastened around each head pulled by hand? Less than 1000 sq ft and too hard for foot-stomper aerator.


Well what do you know ? There is such a thing..........in Australia !

see page 30 of http://www.hicksturf.com.au/pdf/productcatalogue.pdf

On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 4:26:01 PM UTC-4, Retired wrote:
On 8/6/14, 3:19 PM, Guv Bob wrote:

Now that we have all the comments and theories about aeration......



Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel filled with water with a row of aerator tubes fastened around each head pulled by hand? Less than 1000 sq ft and too hard for foot-stomper aerator.





Well what do you know ? There is such a thing..........in Australia !



see page 30 of http://www.hicksturf.com.au/pdf/productcatalogue.pdf

He said he wants one with "tubes", by which I think he means one that
cuts plugs out, not one with spikes. That one uses spikes.

I wonder if he's ever used such a thing? Even the contraption in the
catalog, I would think would be next to impossible to use. A 20 gal roller
would weigh 160 lbs+ and you could pull it around by hand on a concrete floor.
But a roller with spikes that sink into the turf? Or even worse, tubes that
go 3" into the soil? I sure wouldn't want to be the guy using it. I've
wrestled with the power ones that you can rent, and even they aren't much
fun.

On Wed, 6 Aug 2014 13:48:26 -0700 (PDT), trader_4
wrote:

see page 30 of http://www.hicksturf.com.au/pdf/productcatalogue.pdf

He said he wants one with "tubes", by which I think he means one that
cuts plugs out, not one with spikes. That one uses spikes.

I wonder if he's ever used such a thing? Even the contraption in the
catalog, I would think would be next to impossible to use. A 20 gal roller
would weigh 160 lbs+ and you could pull it around by hand on a concrete floor.
But a roller with spikes that sink into the turf? Or even worse, tubes that
go 3" into the soil? I sure wouldn't want to be the guy using it. I've
wrestled with the power ones that you can rent, and even they aren't much
fun.

I agree; plus, the OP is dealing with clay soil. It would be cheaper
and less effort to have a landscaper come and core the area.

"Retired" wrote in message ...
On 8/6/14, 3:19 PM, Guv Bob wrote:
Now that we have all the comments and theories about aeration......

Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel filled with water with a row of aerator tubes fastened around each head pulled by hand? Less than 1000 sq ft and too hard for foot-stomper aerator.


Well what do you know ? There is such a thing..........in Australia !

see page 30 of http://www.hicksturf.com.au/pdf/productcatalogue.pdf

Thanks, Retired. That's the idea, only the kind I'm looking for has cylinders that remove plugs like these.... Cylinders are tapered so that the bottom is slightly smaller diameter than the top, making it easier for plugs to move up and out...

http://www.deerwood.bc.ca/wp-content...woodedited.jpg

http://www.kitchenfoodgarden.com/wp-...re-aerator.jpg

On Wed, 6 Aug 2014 11:19:24 -0800, "Guv Bob"
wrote:

Now that we have all the comments and theories about aeration......

Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel filled with water with a row of aerator tubes fastened around each head pulled by hand? Less than 1000 sq ft and too hard for foot-stomper aerator.

On Wed, 6 Aug 2014 11:19:24 -0800, "Guv Bob"
wrote:

Now that we have all the comments and theories about aeration......

Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel filled with water with a row of aerator tubes fastened around each head pulled by hand? Less than 1000 sq ft and too hard for foot-stomper aerator.

That tiny area, what a wuss. I have a Mantis tiller, greatest
gardening tool out there... get the aerating attachment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6zl9duO1o0
I use mine to till my 50' X 50' vegetable garden, in fact I used it
yesterday to aerate around my vegetable plants... don't let its size
fool you. it's got plenty of power yet any 80 pound wuss can handle
it. The Mantis won't till never tilled land, too many roots n' rocks,
but once it's tilled the Mantis can handle all your gardening chores.
I had a 7 HP monster tiller but once I got the Mantis I never used it
so I sold that behemouth... I love that Mantis because my wife can use
it for her flower beds and I don't need to deal with them. Anyone
needs to till raw land rent a monster tiller, then buy a Mantis. I
even had a giant tiller I could attach to my tractor's 3 point hitch
and would till a 5' swarth, sold that to the same guy who bought my 7
HP Simplicity tiller... he had dreams of growing several acres of
pumpkins. For aerating under 1000 sq ft and I was a cheap *******
like you I'd poke holes with this, wouldn't take me more than 2 hours:
http://www.amazon.com/Tine-Pitchfork...7359596&sr=1-7

"Brooklyn1" wrote in message ...
On Wed, 6 Aug 2014 11:19:24 -0800, "Guv Bob"
wrote:

Now that we have all the comments and theories about aeration......

Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel filled with water with a row of aerator tubes fastened around each head pulled by hand? Less than 1000 sq ft and too hard for foot-stomper aerator.

That tiny area, what a wuss. I have a Mantis tiller, greatest
gardening tool out there... get the aerating attachment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6zl9duO1o0
I use mine to till my 50' X 50' vegetable garden, in fact I used it
yesterday to aerate around my vegetable plants... don't let its size
fool you. it's got plenty of power yet any 80 pound wuss can handle
it. The Mantis won't till never tilled land, too many roots n' rocks,
but once it's tilled the Mantis can handle all your gardening chores.
I had a 7 HP monster tiller but once I got the Mantis I never used it
so I sold that behemouth... I love that Mantis because my wife can use
it for her flower beds and I don't need to deal with them. Anyone
needs to till raw land rent a monster tiller, then buy a Mantis. I
even had a giant tiller I could attach to my tractor's 3 point hitch
and would till a 5' swarth, sold that to the same guy who bought my 7
HP Simplicity tiller... he had dreams of growing several acres of
pumpkins. For aerating under 1000 sq ft and I was a cheap *******
like you I'd poke holes with this, wouldn't take me more than 2 hours:
http://www.amazon.com/Tine-Pitchfork...7359596&sr=1-7

Don't need a tiller or a pitchfork. LOL! It would be a waste for me to buy a Mantis just to aerate a lawn every year or so. Are you sure that video shows an aerator attachment? Good try but stupid idea.

On Wed, 6 Aug 2014 22:56:01 -0800, "Guv Bob"
wrote:

snipped

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6zl9duO1o0

[...]

Are you sure that video shows an aerator attachment? Good try but stupid idea.

It is aerating, just a different approach. The Mantis is cutting slits
in the ground (3 inches deep ?), instead of pulling core plugs out. It
achieves basically the same thing. Breaks up the compacted soil,
allows oxygen and micro nutrients, and water to penetrate deeper.

I'd not use the Mantis on large lot, but would for a small area to
break up compacted clay. For a large lot, I'd use a real coring
machine. Both will remove some thatch.

"Guv Bob" wrote in message news Now that we have all the comments and theories about aeration......

Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel filled with water with a row of aerator tubes fastened around each head pulled by hand? Less than 1000 sq ft and too hard for foot-stomper aerator.

Magically someone was passing out flyers to do aeration in the neighborhood this week. This is the just the 2nd time I've seen someone come by in 20 years.
Prices listed vary from $80-160 front and back, depending on any extra services.

On Fri, 15 Aug 2014 15:50:37 -0800, "Guv Bob"
wrote:

"Guv Bob" wrote in message news Now that we have all the comments and theories about aeration......

Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel filled with water with a row of aerator tubes fastened around each head pulled by hand? Less than 1000 sq ft and too hard for foot-stomper aerator.

Magically someone was passing out flyers to do aeration in the neighborhood this week. This is the just the 2nd time I've seen someone come by in 20 years.
Prices listed vary from $80-160 front and back, depending on any extra services.

Let us know what you finally decide. How old is this thread now?

"Oren" wrote in message ...
On Fri, 15 Aug 2014 15:50:37 -0800, "Guv Bob"
wrote:

"Guv Bob" wrote in message news Now that we have all the comments and theories about aeration......

Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel filled with water with a row of aerator tubes fastened around each head pulled by hand? Less than 1000 sq ft and too hard for foot-stomper aerator.

Magically someone was passing out flyers to do aeration in the neighborhood this week. This is the just the 2nd time I've seen someone come by in 20 years.
Prices listed vary from $80-160 front and back, depending on any extra services.

Let us know what you finally decide. How old is this thread now?

It's old as the hills.

On Fri, 15 Aug 2014 15:50:37 -0800, "Guv Bob"
wrote:

"Guv Bob" wrote in message news Now that we have all the comments and theories about aeration......

Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel filled with water with a row of aerator tubes fastened around each head pulled by hand? Less than 1000 sq ft and too hard for foot-stomper aerator.

Magically someone was passing out flyers to do aeration in the neighborhood this week. This is the just the 2nd time I've seen someone come by in 20 years.
Prices listed vary from $80-160 front and back, depending on any extra services.
Up here in Waterloo Ontario there are usually guys around 3 or 4
times in the spring, and often twice in the fall wanting to Aerate the
lawn.

On 8/15/2014 4:50 PM, Guv Bob wrote:
"Guv Bob" wrote in message news Now that we have all the comments and theories about aeration......

Anybody know where to get an aerator that's basically a 20-gallon barrel filled with water with a row of aerator tubes fastened around each head pulled by hand? Less than 1000 sq ft and too hard for foot-stomper aerator.

Magically someone was passing out flyers to do aeration in the neighborhood this week. This is the just the 2nd time I've seen someone come by in 20 years.
Prices listed vary from $80-160 front and back, depending on any extra services.


Just be sure his device pulls plugs of soil and does not merely spike
the soil. The former actually aerates; the latter compresses the soil
around the holes it punches and makes things worse.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

On Fri, 15 Aug 2014 17:24:18 -0700, "David E. Ross"
wrote:

Just be sure his device pulls plugs of soil and does not merely spike
the soil. The former actually aerates; the latter compresses the soil
around the holes it punches and makes things worse.

The OP has read this advice from AHR.

I wish he could make up his mind in the matter. Take some action and
use the advice already given. Tell us if we were wrong.

Guv Bob wrote:

Anybody know where to get an aerator ...

Lawn aeration is a crock.

There are VERY FEW situations where aeration is really called for and
the mechanical alteration of soil is necessary to improve turf health.

Those few situations are mostly sports fields, golf courses, etc. And
the aeration they perform uses spikes that do not core out plugs of
turf.

Why do you think your residential front or back yard needs plugs of turf
to be removed from it?

What type of soil do you have in Long Beach?

"HomeGuy" "Home"@Guy.com wrote in message ...
Guv Bob wrote:

Anybody know where to get an aerator ...

Lawn aeration is a crock.

There are VERY FEW situations where aeration is really called for and
the mechanical alteration of soil is necessary to improve turf health.

Those few situations are mostly sports fields, golf courses, etc. And
the aeration they perform uses spikes that do not core out plugs of
turf.

Why do you think your residential front or back yard needs plugs of turf
to be removed from it?

What type of soil do you have in Long Beach?

Below 1-2 inches, it's hard-packed clay in this particular spot. This was just an idea. Water won't penetrate it. Trying to avoid roto-tilling. It's level and rolling a 200 pound barrel on a rock-hard surface like this is pretty easy. I have rolled a 55 gal drum of liquid on the same place -- that's where I got the idea.

"Guv Bob" wrote in message m...
"HomeGuy" "Home"@Guy.com wrote in message ...
Guv Bob wrote:

Anybody know where to get an aerator ...

Lawn aeration is a crock.

There are VERY FEW situations where aeration is really called for and
the mechanical alteration of soil is necessary to improve turf health.

Those few situations are mostly sports fields, golf courses, etc. And
the aeration they perform uses spikes that do not core out plugs of
turf.

Why do you think your residential front or back yard needs plugs of turf
to be removed from it?

What type of soil do you have in Long Beach?

Below 1-2 inches, it's hard-packed clay in this particular spot. This was just an idea. Water won't penetrate it. Trying to avoid roto-tilling. It's level and rolling a 200 pound barrel on a rock-hard surface like this is pretty easy. I have rolled a 55 gal drum of liquid on the same place -- that's where I got the idea.

PS - This is out near the desert - not anywhere close to Long Beach.

On 7/18/2014 8:19 PM, Guv Bob wrote:
"HomeGuy" "Home"@Guy.com wrote in message ...
Guv Bob wrote:

Anybody know where to get an aerator ...

Lawn aeration is a crock.

There are VERY FEW situations where aeration is really called for and
the mechanical alteration of soil is necessary to improve turf health.

Those few situations are mostly sports fields, golf courses, etc. And
the aeration they perform uses spikes that do not core out plugs of
turf.

Why do you think your residential front or back yard needs plugs of turf
to be removed from it?

What type of soil do you have in Long Beach?

Below 1-2 inches, it's hard-packed clay in this particular spot. This was just an idea. Water won't penetrate it. Trying to avoid roto-tilling. It's level and rolling a 200 pound barrel on a rock-hard surface like this is pretty easy. I have rolled a 55 gal drum of liquid on the same place -- that's where I got the idea.


I suggest you apply a thin layer of gypsum over the area and dampen it.
Then, over the next 2-3 weeks, slowly rinse it into the soil. This
will start to break up the clay so that however you aerate it, you will
get good results.

Yes, I am a big fan of gypsum. No, I do not have any direct investment
in any company that mines, processes, or sells gypsum.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote:


I suggest you apply a thin layer of gypsum over the area and dampen it.
Then, over the next 2-3 weeks, slowly rinse it into the soil. This
will start to break up the clay so that however you aerate it, you will
get good results.

Yes, I am a big fan of gypsum. No, I do not have any direct investment
in any company that mines, processes, or sells gypsum.

Which answers te question I was going to ask. We are quite rightly called "Clay
Township" and even aerating once a year for 5 years and twice for the
last 3 haven't made any noticable improvement in problem areas. Gypsum now and then aerate in the fall?
--
?Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive,
but what they conceal is vital.?
? Aaron Levenstein

On Saturday, July 19, 2014 9:53:32 AM UTC-4, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,

"David E. Ross" wrote:





I suggest you apply a thin layer of gypsum over the area and dampen it.

Then, over the next 2-3 weeks, slowly rinse it into the soil. This

will start to break up the clay so that however you aerate it, you will

get good results.



Yes, I am a big fan of gypsum. No, I do not have any direct investment

in any company that mines, processes, or sells gypsum.



Which answers te question I was going to ask. We are quite rightly called "Clay

Township" and even aerating once a year for 5 years and twice for the

last 3 haven't made any noticable improvement in problem areas. Gypsum now and then aerate in the fall?

I'd do the gypsum right after aerating. With open holes, some of
the gypsum will make it a few inches into the soil.

On 7/19/2014 6:53 AM, Kurt Ullman wrote:
In article ,
"David E. Ross" wrote:


I suggest you apply a thin layer of gypsum over the area and dampen it.
Then, over the next 2-3 weeks, slowly rinse it into the soil. This
will start to break up the clay so that however you aerate it, you will
get good results.

Yes, I am a big fan of gypsum. No, I do not have any direct investment
in any company that mines, processes, or sells gypsum.

Which answers te question I was going to ask. We are quite rightly called "Clay
Township" and even aerating once a year for 5 years and twice for the
last 3 haven't made any noticable improvement in problem areas. Gypsum now and then aerate in the fall?


In my area, rain (if it ever falls again ) is in the winter. I apply
gypsum in November. Not having small children any more to run across my
small lawn, I do not need to mechanically aerate. (Visits from
grandchildren are an occasional treat.) When I had a larger lawn and
small children, I would mechanically aerate about two weeks after
applying gypsum. This would mean that I maximized the penetration of
rain.

The answer to your question thus depends on your climate.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

On Fri, 18 Jul 2014 21:26:56 -0700, "David E. Ross"
wrote:

Below 1-2 inches, it's hard-packed clay in this particular spot. This was just an idea. Water won't penetrate it. Trying to avoid roto-tilling. It's level and rolling a 200 pound barrel on a rock-hard surface like this is pretty easy. I have rolled a 55 gal drum of liquid on the same place -- that's where I got the idea.


I suggest you apply a thin layer of gypsum over the area and dampen it.
Then, over the next 2-3 weeks, slowly rinse it into the soil. This
will start to break up the clay so that however you aerate it, you will
get good results.

Yes, I am a big fan of gypsum. No, I do not have any direct investment
in any company that mines, processes, or sells gypsum.


+1 on using gypsum. Use a coring aerator that removes the 2" plugs.
Scatter the gypsum and water the area. The gypsum helps break down the
clay so water can penetrate the soil - in my experience. Coring also
allows plenty of oxygen into the soil. Even a good time to over seed
with grass seed. Leave the plug cores on the ground and they
eventually break down in a week or so.

Oren wrote:

+1 on using gypsum. Use a coring aerator that removes the 2" plugs.
Scatter the gypsum and water the area. The gypsum helps break down
the clay so water can penetrate the soil - in my experience.

Coring also allows plenty of oxygen into the soil.

You guys (particularly you Oren) are full of so much **** on this topic
it's beyond belief.

Your ideas especially about oxygen are pulled straight out of your ass.

You have absolutely no idea what the gas permeability is of soil,
especially given all the different conditions you're going to encounter.

This guy (Bob) lives in what is becoming a desert (California, Long
Beach). His soil will be very dry and porous and this is not an issue
of getting more atmospheric gas in contact with roots.

The accepted treatment for patchy lawns growing in clay is to top-dress
frequently with top soil and throw in grass seed and fertilizer.

AND LOTS OF WATER - something the OP will not be able to do.

There are con artists that troll neighborhoods in the spring with
aerators they rent from Home Despot. I garantee you they do not bring
top soil or gypsum with them to rake into the holes as part of their con
jobs. And they set their plugs to barely reach 1.5 or 2" so they don't
cut any in-ground infrastructure (irrigation lines, telephone or RG-6
coax cable).

The OP has primarily a water problem, and either too much or too little
shade for his lawn to thrive. Throwing down a good amount of fertilizer
and water can do amazing things for a lawn, even in clay.

I live in the middle of the great lakes - this is clay central. My own
property is in an area that was once dug up decades ago for clay to make
bricks. I have never once aerated my lawn in 15 years of ownership. My
grass does very well in the areas I bother to take care of it.

And here I will give you one expert who is basically saying that adding
gypsum after the fact to an established lawn is full of ****:

http://web.extension.illinois.edu/as...AskSiteI D=34

==============
We often get this question about how to improve the structure of a soil
after plants or in your case a lawn has been installed. It is not easy
and often there is not a very efficient way of doing this because you
don't want to start over. Ideally we like to see soil improvement done
before planting and the best way is to incorporate a lot of organic
matter into the soil.

Many people think that gypsum is the magic cure for clay soils. While
gypsum is often suggested to help loosen up clay soil by getting between
the particles and helping to floculate or open up the soil for better
air and ater movement it often takes time and if a plant is there again
it can't be incorporated the way it should be.

The only way I think you can help a tight clay soil under sod is to do
vigorous core cultivation. This means using a machine that puts holes
into the ground that are at least 4 inches deep and about 1/2 to 3/4
inch in diameter with the holes being no more than 2 inches apart.

After that you can topdress with good soil that is worked into the holes
and allows air and water to start moving down and supporting good root
structure. Gypsum could be added but it isn't going to do the job as
well as if it were to be fully incorporated. Doing this coring regularly
will eventually start to "replace" the soil one core at a time allowing
a better soil environment for root development.
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FOUR inches deep. Take note of that. Half inch to 3/4 diam, NO MORE
THAN 2 INCHES APART.

Your lawn is going to look like swiss cheese after that.

If you're going to do that, you might as well rototill the whole thing,
and ADD SAND. Playground or brick sand. That will probably work better
(and cheaper) than gypsum.

"Doing this coring regularly ..."

Who the hell wants to break their back doing that "regularly" ?

Either just top-dress once or twice a year, or rototill the whole dam
lawn, truck a good amount of the clay away and replace with some good
black earth and load it with some good grass seed and fertilize.

But again, maybe you're just wasting your time since you're in the
middle of a drought and who knows when it will end. Probably not a good
time (or a good decade) to try to do any lawn rehabilitation in
California.

"Guv Bob" wrote in message m...
"HomeGuy" "Home"@Guy.com wrote in message ...
Guv Bob wrote:

Anybody know where to get an aerator ...

Lawn aeration is a crock.

There are VERY FEW situations where aeration is really called for and
the mechanical alteration of soil is necessary to improve turf health.

Those few situations are mostly sports fields, golf courses, etc. And
the aeration they perform uses spikes that do not core out plugs of
turf.

Why do you think your residential front or back yard needs plugs of turf
to be removed from it?

What type of soil do you have in Long Beach?

Below 1-2 inches, it's hard-packed clay in this particular spot. This was just an idea. Water won't penetrate it. Trying to avoid roto-tilling. It's level and rolling a 200 pound barrel on a rock-hard surface like this is pretty easy. I have rolled a 55 gal drum of liquid on the same place -- that's where I got the idea.


This is a small area - about 10 x 30 ft. Would be nice to have grass there, but being dirt is OK, and not worth renting anything. A few years ago I had to put ground cover on a bare compacted clay hill. I ended up getting a 5/8-inch masonry bit and drilling 4-inch holes about 6-8 inches apart, dropping red apple ice plant pieces in and filling with good soil. Nearly all survived and within a year the hill was covered.

Guv Bob wrote:

What type of soil do you have in Long Beach?

Below 1-2 inches, it's hard-packed clay in this particular spot.
This was just an idea. Water won't penetrate it.

Grass roots don't really grow much below 2" anyways. Just look at rolls
of sod. They certainly don't come 2" thick (with soil).

Lawns need almost daily watering when the daily high temp reaches 80
unless except on overcast days - then maybe you can go 4 days without
water.

This is a small area - about 10 x 30 ft.

Forget aerating. Have a yard of black earth / top-soil delivered and
rake it evenly all over, and throw in some grass seed while you're at
it. THAT is by far the most accepted way to deal with poor sub-soil
conditions without completely replacing the top 4" of soil.

And then you need to water.

But you haven't said anything about your ability to irrigate this patch
of grass. What municipal water restrictions are you under currently -
now and for the next few months?

HomeGuy wrote:
Guv Bob wrote:

What type of soil do you have in Long Beach?

Below 1-2 inches, it's hard-packed clay in this particular spot.
This was just an idea. Water won't penetrate it.

Grass roots don't really grow much below 2" anyways. Just look at
rolls of sod. They certainly don't come 2" thick (with soil).

Rolls of sod are sold with only enough soil/roots to survive till thet're layed.
Otherwise, the sod farms would quickly run out of soil.

I recently cut up a bunch of lawn for a garden with a rented sod cutter. I cut
2+" deep, and still had a tough layer of roots that my old rototiller couldn't
easily get through. There was at least 2" of root left, and I had to break it up
with a shovel before my tiller could do its job.

Of course, since you operate by the stupid theory that you have to water every
day if it gets over 80F (in another post), your grass will have no deep roots.
They only go deep if they have to to find water. My lawn has no problem with a
good watering once a week in 80F weather.

"HomeGuy" Home@guy.com wrote in message ...
Guv Bob wrote:

What type of soil do you have in Long Beach?

Below 1-2 inches, it's hard-packed clay in this particular spot.
This was just an idea. Water won't penetrate it.

Grass roots don't really grow much below 2" anyways. Just look at rolls
of sod. They certainly don't come 2" thick (with soil).

Lawns need almost daily watering when the daily high temp reaches 80
unless except on overcast days - then maybe you can go 4 days without
water.

This is a small area - about 10 x 30 ft.

Forget aerating. Have a yard of black earth / top-soil delivered and
rake it evenly all over, and throw in some grass seed while you're at
it. THAT is by far the most accepted way to deal with poor sub-soil
conditions without completely replacing the top 4" of soil.

And then you need to water.

But you haven't said anything about your ability to irrigate this patch
of grass. What municipal water restrictions are you under currently -
now and for the next few months?

Thanks, HG. Only restrictions so far are what I do anyway - no watering between 9am-5pm or hose down sideways, etc. Unfortunately, the talk is that the cut back will be 20% less than we used 12 months previous. So folks like us who are very conservative with water will likely end up paying penalties. Meanwhile the swimming pool crowd down the street will only have to stop pumping so much overflow into the gutter.

On 7/20/2014 4:41 PM, Guv Bob wrote [in part]:
This is a small area - about 10 x 30 ft. Would be nice to have
grass there, but being dirt is OK, and not worth renting anything. A
few years ago I had to put ground cover on a bare compacted clay
hill. I ended up getting a 5/8-inch masonry bit and drilling 4-inch
holes about 6-8 inches apart, dropping red apple ice plant pieces in
and filling with good soil. Nearly all survived and within a year
the hill was covered.


While it used to be quite common to plant ice plant on a slope, the
recommendation today is very much against that. During a rain, ice
plant takes up much water and becomes quite heavy. The roots tend to be
shallow and not very extensive. The result is that the ice plant will
often pull loose, slide down the hill, and take part of the hill with it.

I am very sensitive about proper planting of slopes since the hill in my
back yard has slipped twice. The second time, the repair cost almost
four times what I paid for my house; my grandchildren will make the last
payment on the federal disaster loan. No, there is no such thing as
insurance against a slope failing; and the repairs are never guaranteed.

Grape vines are very good on a hill; they have very tough, deep roots
and generally do not care how poor is the soil. Alone, African daisies
or ivy (English or Algerian) are not good because their roots tend to
form a mat that can become a weak layer; African daisies and ivy mixed
together, however, are excellent on a hill because those mats are at
different depths and tend to be less concentrated.

According to the grading experts in my county's public works agency,
trees on a hill can be bad. In a wind, they rock back and forth,
breaking up the soil around the bases of the trunks. With a major rain
storm, that becomes a path for a large amount of water to funnel down to
the subsoil. Depending on their alignment, this can lubricate the
boundary between soil and subsoil and trigger a slide. On the other
hand, shrubs are okay.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

"David E. Ross" wrote in message ...
On 7/20/2014 4:41 PM, Guv Bob wrote [in part]:
This is a small area - about 10 x 30 ft. Would be nice to have
grass there, but being dirt is OK, and not worth renting anything. A
few years ago I had to put ground cover on a bare compacted clay
hill. I ended up getting a 5/8-inch masonry bit and drilling 4-inch
holes about 6-8 inches apart, dropping red apple ice plant pieces in
and filling with good soil. Nearly all survived and within a year
the hill was covered.


While it used to be quite common to plant ice plant on a slope, the
recommendation today is very much against that. During a rain, ice
plant takes up much water and becomes quite heavy. The roots tend to be
shallow and not very extensive. The result is that the ice plant will
often pull loose, slide down the hill, and take part of the hill with it.

I am very sensitive about proper planting of slopes since the hill in my
back yard has slipped twice. The second time, the repair cost almost
four times what I paid for my house; my grandchildren will make the last
payment on the federal disaster loan. No, there is no such thing as
insurance against a slope failing; and the repairs are never guaranteed.

Grape vines are very good on a hill; they have very tough, deep roots
and generally do not care how poor is the soil. Alone, African daisies
or ivy (English or Algerian) are not good because their roots tend to
form a mat that can become a weak layer; African daisies and ivy mixed
together, however, are excellent on a hill because those mats are at
different depths and tend to be less concentrated.

According to the grading experts in my county's public works agency,
trees on a hill can be bad. In a wind, they rock back and forth,
breaking up the soil around the bases of the trunks. With a major rain
storm, that becomes a path for a large amount of water to funnel down to
the subsoil. Depending on their alignment, this can lubricate the
boundary between soil and subsoil and trigger a slide. On the other
hand, shrubs are okay.

Good to know, David. Grapes sounds like a great idea. Any particular varieties to get or stay away from? Or other types of plants on a slope?