I have a 4 year old house where the back door (Pella steel) leaks on the bottom corners. I can see the water on the wooden rail on the threshold and seems to only occur on the two corners vs the middle. The weather stripping is wet on the bottom half of the door where the door compresses into it when closed and the corner pad is completely soaked. Doing a visual inspection the seal when the door is closes seems tight (except the top corner on the knob side shows some light). Can you give any advice on what to check/try?

On Friday, February 14, 2014 3:11:08 PM UTC-5, Greg Rodenhiser wrote:
I have a 4 year old house where the back door (Pella steel) leaks on the bottom corners. I can see the water on the wooden rail on the threshold and seems to only occur on the two corners vs the middle. The weather stripping is wet on the bottom half of the door where the door compresses into it when closed and the corner pad is completely soaked. Doing a visual inspection the seal when the door is closes seems tight (except the top corner on the knob side shows some light). Can you give any advice on what to check/try? A very small amount of water leaks onto the interior floor.

On Friday, February 14, 2014 3:11:08 PM UTC-5, Greg Rodenhiser wrote:
I have a 4 year old house where the back door (Pella steel) leaks on the bottom corners. I can see the water on the wooden rail on the threshold and seems to only occur on the two corners vs the middle. The weather stripping is wet on the bottom half of the door where the door compresses into it when closed and the corner pad is completely soaked. Doing a visual inspection the seal when the door is closes seems tight (except the top corner on the knob side shows some light). Can you give any advice on what to check/try?

Attempting some pictures
https://plus.google.com/u/0/115375182336403760518/posts
https://plus.google.com/u/0/115375182336403760518/posts
https://plus.google.com/u/0/115375182336403760518/posts

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 12:17:29 -0800 (PST), Greg Rodenhiser
wrote in


On Friday, February 14, 2014 3:11:08 PM UTC-5, Greg Rodenhiser wrote:
I have a 4 year old house where the back door (Pella steel) leaks on the bottom corners. I can see the water on the wooden rail on the threshold and seems to only occur on the two corners vs the middle. The weather stripping is wet on the bottom half of the door where the door compresses into it when closed and the corner pad is completely soaked. Doing a visual inspection the seal when the door is closes seems tight (except the top corner on the knob side shows some light). Can you give any advice on what to check/try?

Attempting some pictures
https://plus.google.com/u/0/115375182336403760518/posts

Sorry I can't offer any suggestions, but it does look like it will be
a growing problem.
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Greg Rodenhiser wrote:
On Friday, February 14, 2014 3:11:08 PM UTC-5, Greg Rodenhiser wrote:
I have a 4 year old house where the back door (Pella steel) leaks on the bottom corners. I can see the water on the wooden rail on the threshold and seems to only occur on the two corners vs the middle. The weather stripping is wet on the bottom half of the door where the door compresses into it when closed and the corner pad is completely soaked. Doing a visual inspection the seal when the door is closes seems tight (except the top corner on the knob side shows some light). Can you give any advice on what to check/try?

Attempting some pictures
https://plus.google.com/u/0/115375182336403760518/posts
https://plus.google.com/u/0/115375182336403760518/posts
https://plus.google.com/u/0/115375182336403760518/posts

Hi,
My take on this is not a local leak(door/seal). Look under threshold
around door frame to track down where water is coming. Do you have
overhang(door sheltered from element above) or door opens into facing
outside directly. Hope it's not bigger problem.

On Friday, February 14, 2014 3:43:34 PM UTC-5, Tony Hwang wrote:
Greg Rodenhiser wrote:

On Friday, February 14, 2014 3:11:08 PM UTC-5, Greg Rodenhiser wrote:

I have a 4 year old house where the back door (Pella steel) leaks on the bottom corners. I can see the water on the wooden rail on the threshold and seems to only occur on the two corners vs the middle. The weather stripping is wet on the bottom half of the door where the door compresses into it when closed and the corner pad is completely soaked. Doing a visual inspection the seal when the door is closes seems tight (except the top corner on the knob side shows some light). Can you give any advice on what to check/try?



Attempting some pictures

https://plus.google.com/u/0/115375182336403760518/posts

https://plus.google.com/u/0/115375182336403760518/posts

https://plus.google.com/u/0/115375182336403760518/posts



Hi,

My take on this is not a local leak(door/seal). Look under threshold

around door frame to track down where water is coming. Do you have

overhang(door sheltered from element above) or door opens into facing

outside directly. Hope it's not bigger problem.

The door opens to the outside directly. The only reason I'm thinking a local leak is the wetness seems to start between the door and frame (like I said the weather stripping is wet where the door compresses against it) about halfway down and onto the threshold sides.

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 12:17:29 -0800 (PST), Greg Rodenhiser
wrote:

Attempting some pictures
https://plus.google.com/u/0/115375182336403760518/posts
https://plus.google.com/u/0/115375182336403760518/posts
https://plus.google.com/u/0/115375182336403760518/posts

Very small photos. At 300% I'm still not able to see the areas well.
Take 3 photos at higher resolutions at the problem location and post
them. I'd only be guessing, without seeing better close-ups in the
problem area.

On Friday, February 14, 2014 4:01:44 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 12:17:29 -0800 (PST), Greg Rodenhiser

wrote:



Attempting some pictures

https://plus.google.com/u/0/115375182336403760518/posts

https://plus.google.com/u/0/115375182336403760518/posts

https://plus.google.com/u/0/115375182336403760518/posts



Very small photos. At 300% I'm still not able to see the areas well.

Take 3 photos at higher resolutions at the problem location and post

them. I'd only be guessing, without seeing better close-ups in the

problem area.

Okay think I added the high res ones
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1...63512495148001

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:43:34 -0700, Tony Hwang
wrote:

My take on this is not a local leak(door/seal). Look under threshold
around door frame to track down where water is coming. Do you have
overhang(door sheltered from element above) or door opens into facing
outside directly. Hope it's not bigger problem.

The outside top trim may not be caulked. Water could enter from above
and travel down the door jamb. I would prefer better photos.

OP - check the exterior door trim casing and see if caulk has been
applied where the trim meets the exterior wall, has dried out, pulled
/ cracked away? Let us know.

On Friday, February 14, 2014 4:09:50 PM UTC-5, Oren wrote:
On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:43:34 -0700, Tony Hwang

wrote:



My take on this is not a local leak(door/seal). Look under threshold

around door frame to track down where water is coming. Do you have

overhang(door sheltered from element above) or door opens into facing

outside directly. Hope it's not bigger problem.



The outside top trim may not be caulked. Water could enter from above

and travel down the door jamb. I would prefer better photos.



OP - check the exterior door trim casing and see if caulk has been

applied where the trim meets the exterior wall, has dried out, pulled

/ cracked away? Let us know.

Not sure if it makes a difference but exterior siding is all vinyl..

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:07:12 -0800 (PST), Greg Rodenhiser
wrote:

Okay think I added the high res ones
https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1...63512495148001

A few things to check:

1) Examine the exterior door casing top and sides. Ensure they are
caulked with an exterior acrylic caulk.

2) Pull the metal threshold for inspection. The threshold should also
be caulked underneath - width of the threshold along the door jamb and
a two beads the width of the door. (~1/2" size beads)

Looks like: (sorta)

]|==================|[

3) Inspect the interior top trim casing - looks like there could
possibly be water intrusion at the height, can't really tell. If so,
is it may be possible the door install was not flashed properly with
"moist wrap".

This needs a very close inspection all around. The water will
eventually cause harm to your wood flooring. Allow wind drafts and
blowing rain to get inside.

Are you handy? Maybe pull the interior door trim casing too and have a
look behind it.

Let us know what you find, please.

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:15:47 -0800 (PST), Greg Rodenhiser
wrote:


OP - check the exterior door trim casing and see if caulk has been

applied where the trim meets the exterior wall, has dried out, pulled

/ cracked away? Let us know.

Not sure if it makes a difference but exterior siding is all vinyl..

The difference is if the rough opening was properly wrapped with
"moist wrap" barrier, before the door was installed.

This is an example of a window. Concept is the same practice.

http://www.albertsroofing.com/HagertyJob%20(24).JPG

It looks like the rubber gasket is missing from the floor side, there is a track but no upward facing bubber gasket that normally would be pressing against the bottom fo the door. A picture of the whole setup, and then more zeroing in on the problem area would be much better than a few apparently random photos.

On Friday, February 14, 2014 4:47:54 PM UTC-5, wrote:
It looks like the rubber gasket is missing from the floor side, there is a track but no upward facing bubber gasket that normally would be pressing against the bottom fo the door. A picture of the whole setup, and then more zeroing in on the problem area would be much better than a few apparently random photos.

I'll work on taking better pictures, these were just a few random ones I snapped this morning. As I mentioned, the air gap in the picture I showed does allow a very small amount of blowing snow in during windy storms this winter.... My thinking was this gap was allowing water to run down the door frame and collect at the bottom. This is where I feel moisture (the kerf stripping is wet and that entire corner pad is wet. My very uneducated guess is water run down the verticle sides and collects at the bottom. Weirdly the top half of the vertical kerf stripping is completely dry. I'll work on getting better pictures this weekend. I'm handy with some things, but for water intrusion type issues, I'd rather bring in someone who knows way more than I do.

On Fri, 14 Feb 2014 13:47:42 -0800, Oren wrote:

The difference is if the rough opening was properly wrapped with
"moist wrap" barrier, before the door was installed.

This is an example of a window. Concept is the same practice.

http://www.albertsroofing.com/HagertyJob%20(24).JPG

BTW, Can anyone here spot the faults in the application of the RO
moisture wrap around the window?

When I later zoomed in at 400% it became apparent to me.

Discuss.

"Greg Rodenhiser" wrote in
message

I have a 4 year old house where the back door (Pella
steel) leaks on the bottom corners. I can see the water
on the wooden rail on the threshold and seems to only
occur on the two corners vs the middle. The weather
stripping is wet on the bottom half of the door where the
door compresses into it when closed and the corner pad is
completely soaked. Doing a visual inspection the seal
when the door is closes seems tight (except the top
corner on the knob side shows some light). Can you give
any advice on what to check/try?

Is all this correct?

1.The door swings out

2. The threshold is in two parts...
a) ribbed aluminum
b) wood which is higher than and butts on the edge of the aluminum

3. The doorway is more or less in line with the walls of the house; i.e.,
there is no porch or appreciable overhang over the doorway.

Questions:

1. does the aluminum threshold slope well outward?

2. what is the brown, rectalinear object low on the jamb in photo #3?
__________________________

Looking at the photos, these are my observations...

1.The miter between top and hinge side casing is open; water can enter
there.

In the same photo I can't tell if the door is fully closed or not; if it is,
there is a considerable space between it and the hinge jamb and water could
easily enter there. If that gap exists, you should install a stop; i.e., a
thin, narrow strip of wood that touches the door when the door is closed; it
should be on both side jambs, top one as well. One can buy smallish, self
adhesive weather stripping to attach to the edge of the stop where it
touches the door. This is the sort of weather strip I am talking about,
stops need to be about 1/2" thick or more...
http://www.amazon.com/Frost-King-V25.../dp/B000B4N3OA

2. Water can enter at the edge between the aluminum and wood threshold. It
would be far better if the Al threshold were wider and incorporated the
higher part in it. I don't have tons of door experience but that's the way
all my outswing door thresholds are.

Even if the Al threshold were wider, water can - and does - enter where it
meets the jambs. That's because the Al thresholds generally have a piece of
wood under them and the jambs are stapled to it. That means the edge of the
Al butts against the wood jamb, the jamb extends below the Al and water runs
into that joint. Built like that, they will always fail. The same is true
of your wood threshold abutting the aluminum one.

IMO, most of your water is from these two places. The condensation on the
door isn't helping either...I'm guessing that the staining and rust around
the wood threshold fasteners are mostly attributable to that. If you wind
up keeping the wood part, change the fasteners to bronze, brass or stainless
steel.
______________________

The water is eventually going to rot both the wood jambs and the wood
threshold against which the door closes. I've had to repair several rotted
jambs. What I did was...

1. Dig out all the rot all the way back to whatever they are fastened to (in
my case, that was concrete block)

2. Fill the dug out area with Bondo, sand and paint.

3. Assure that there was about 1/4" gap between bottom of jamb and
threshold, fill that gap with a good caulk.
_______________________

Your *BEST* fix is to build/have built an extension to the house extending
out 4' or so; sort of a mini-porch.

Your next best is to replace the Al & wood thresholds with a wider one of Al
which incorporates the higher portion. If you do that you need to make sure
the entire doorway is properly wrapped as per Oren's post...if there is ANY
way for water to enter, it will.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On 2/14/2014 2:11 PM, Greg Rodenhiser wrote:
I have a 4 year old house where the back door (Pella steel) leaks on the bottom corners.
I can see the water on the wooden rail on the threshold and seems to
only occur on the two corners



Two of my neighbors and I had the same problem. We all built our
houses over the space of several years. All of our steel doors leaked
to some degree.

This was more evident with us because of the length of time we were
living in the houses and the time the floors were finished. (Years)

Take a good look at the door where the threshold meets the door frame.
I don't believe it is possible to completely seal that area from
water leakage. Rain will hit the door and run down into the corners.
The water then wicks in under the corner of the door frame and
probably under the door itself.

We all tried a number of ways to stop the leakage but the only thing
that worked was to install storm doors. That keeps the inside door
dry. No more leakage.

I'll bet that many of you with this type of door have the same leakage
problem but don't realize it because the water is leaking in under the
finished floor and is not visible from above.

After a heavy rain has wet the outside of the door for a while probe
around the corners of the threshold where it meets the floor. Don't be
surprised if the sub floor is soft and wet.

LdB

On Friday, February 14, 2014 3:11:08 PM UTC-5, Greg Rodenhiser wrote:
I have a 4 year old house where the back door (Pella steel) leaks on the bottom corners. I can see the water on the wooden rail on the threshold and seems to only occur on the two corners vs the middle. The weather stripping is wet on the bottom half of the door where the door compresses into it when closed and the corner pad is completely soaked. Doing a visual inspection the seal when the door is closes seems tight (except the top corner on the knob side shows some light). Can you give any advice on what to check/try?

Okay, think I MAY have found the source, at least it doesn't look right to me.... I uploaded a few more pictures to give a better idea. The door is a swing in door with a plastic jam. From the outside under the door I can clearly see the wood rail of the threshold, guessing you shouldn't? The close up picture depicts the door completely closed.

My thoughts a

1. door needs new weather stripping etc....
2. door is just a bad design and should be replaced
3. put up a storm door

Also to note, my walk out basement (same side of house) has the exact same door and symptoms (water on the two corners of the wood rail in the threshold. The basement is unfinished giving me great access to look all around the door frame from inside the house, I can't see any obvious signs of water within the frame and there's no water leaking onto the cement basement floor, just the rail gets soaked.

Here are a few more pictures:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1...99290487074449

On Friday, February 14, 2014 3:11:08 PM UTC-5, Greg Rodenhiser wrote:
I have a 4 year old house where the back door (Pella steel) leaks on the bottom corners. I can see the water on the wooden rail on the threshold and seems to only occur on the two corners vs the middle. The weather stripping is wet on the bottom half of the door where the door compresses into it when closed and the corner pad is completely soaked. Doing a visual inspection the seal when the door is closes seems tight (except the top corner on the knob side shows some light). Can you give any advice on what to check/try?

The door swings in and the threshold is plastic. I've taken a few more pictures:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1...99290487074449

This shows the install from inside and outside. Should I be able to see the rail like that from the outside? I have the exact same door on my walk out basement, its also on the same side of the house. It has the same symptoms. Since the basement is unfinished I'm able to get a pretty good view between the door frame and house frame. Everything is dry and see no evidence water ever got in. I can also look under the door threshold of the door in the pictures (from the basement, no sign of water getting down there either).

My thoughts a

1. door needs better stripping at the bottom
2. bad design rip out and replace
3. get a storm door and hope that eliminates the issue

On Sun, 16 Feb 2014 13:00:00 -0800 (PST), Greg Rodenhiser
wrote:

The door swings in and the threshold is plastic. I've taken a few more pictures:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1...99290487074449

This shows the install from inside and outside. Should I be able to see the rail like that from the outside? I have the exact same door on my walk out basement, its also on the same side of the house. It has the same symptoms. Since the basement is unfinished I'm able to get a pretty good view between the door frame and house frame. Everything is dry and see no evidence water ever got in. I can also look under the door threshold of the door in the pictures (from the basement, no sign of water getting down there either).

My thoughts a

1. door needs better stripping at the bottom
2. bad design rip out and replace
3. get a storm door and hope that eliminates the issue

I'm not sure what you are calling the "rail". Is it ribbed plastic of
the wood piece under the door? Cold can make the plastic flex.

It was mentioned by another, about the separation of the trim - top
right corner outside. I'd stick a small (wire) probe in the opening
and see how deep it is. Driving rain may be entering there. so it
needs to be caulked with a paintable exterior acrylic caulk.

The screws on the wood piece under the door can be adjusted up or down
for a tighter seal.

The trim corner referenced (I believe in the same picture showing the air/light gap is on the inside of the house... The outside trim is all vinyl and appears tight. The rail I'm mentioning is the adjustable wood rail of the threshold that sits under the door...

On Sun, 16 Feb 2014 14:16:30 -0800 (PST), Greg Rodenhiser
wrote:

The trim corner referenced (I believe in the same picture showing the air/light gap is on the inside of the house... The outside trim is all vinyl and appears tight. The rail I'm mentioning is the adjustable wood rail of the threshold that sits under the door...

I've always had storm doors. Never had entry doors exposed to
rain/snow.
I suggest you install storm doors.

Does the external visible portion of the door sill slope downward away from the house so that melting snow/ice will drain away from the door? The close-up of what I guess is the door sill does not look like the door sill shown in the series of external photos.

Yes the external sill slopes downward... I'm going to try adjusting the wooden portion under the door tomorrow, what's the term for that part?

On Sun, 16 Feb 2014 17:55:29 -0800 (PST), Greg Rodenhiser
wrote:

Yes the external sill slopes downward... I'm going to try adjusting the wooden portion under the door tomorrow, what's the term for that part?

Adjustable wooden threshold.

http://bscconstruction.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/11-11-09-noon-018.jpg

Greg Rodenhiser posted for all of us...

And I know how to SNIP


I have a 4 year old house where the back door (Pella steel) leaks on the bottom corners. I can see the water on the wooden rail on the threshold and seems to only occur on the two corners vs the middle. The weather stripping is wet on the bottom half of the door where the door compresses into it when closed and the corner pad is completely soaked. Doing a visual inspection the seal when the door is closes seems tight (except the top corner on
the knob side shows some light). Can you give any advice on what to check/try?

Call Pella.

--
Tekkie

replying to Greg Rodenhiser, 82ndwife wrote:
We all need an Attorney!!! I have 18,500. worth of doors that are not working
and it falls on deaf ears!!!!!!


--
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