Motion switch - incandescent vs. CFL
 

I just installed a motion detection switch in one room which is lighted
by 4 CFL's in a fan. The CFL,s come on fine but when the motion switch
shuts them off they just flicker. Of course if I put 4 incandescent
bulbs in the unit all is fine. For the heck of it I put in 3 CFL's and 1
incandescent bulb and to my surprise they ALL work!

Is there any reason that I can't leave it as above (3 CFL's & 1
incandescent)? In this manner I can save some electricity and still have
my motion switch work.

If necessary can I purchase CFL's that will work with my motion switch
or can I purchase a different motion switch that will work with my
current CFL's?

Comments would be appreciated.

Don

Motion switch - incandescent vs. CFL
 

On Saturday, January 25, 2014 6:12:44 PM UTC-5, IGot2P wrote:
I just installed a motion detection switch in one room which is lighted

by 4 CFL's in a fan. The CFL,s come on fine but when the motion switch

shuts them off they just flicker. Of course if I put 4 incandescent

bulbs in the unit all is fine. For the heck of it I put in 3 CFL's and 1

incandescent bulb and to my surprise they ALL work!



Is there any reason that I can't leave it as above (3 CFL's & 1

incandescent)? In this manner I can save some electricity and still have

my motion switch work.



People have done this with a variety of electrical controls,
and gotten it to work. But the other question is, what
is the motion detector rated for use with? It's probably rated
for use with incandescent only. In that case, without knowing
what motion detector or how it's designed, no one can say what
the long term effects will be on the motion sensor. On
the other hand if it just says it's rated for use with loads that
have to be a min of X watts and you get it to work by using
a regular bulb to increase the wattage, then I'd say you're OK.




If necessary can I purchase CFL's that will work with my motion switch



I doubt that.



or can I purchase a different motion switch that will work with my

current CFL's?


I'm sure there are motion switches rated for use on CFL, LED, etc.






Comments would be appreciated.



Don

Motion switch - incandescent vs. CFL
 

IGot2P wrote:
I just installed a motion detection switch in one room which is
lighted by 4 CFL's in a fan. The CFL,s come on fine but when the
motion switch shuts them off they just flicker. Of course if I put 4
incandescent bulbs in the unit all is fine. For the heck of it I put
in 3 CFL's and 1 incandescent bulb and to my surprise they ALL work!

Is there any reason that I can't leave it as above (3 CFL's & 1
incandescent)? In this manner I can save some electricity and still
have my motion switch work.

If necessary can I purchase CFL's that will work with my motion switch
or can I purchase a different motion switch that will work with my
current CFL's?

Comments would be appreciated.

The incandescent bulb draws the small amound of current that is making the CFLs
flicker to itself, keeping the voltage low so they don't flicker. If you want to
keep the power usage low, a very low wattage incandescent bulb will probably
work as well.

Motion switch - incandescent vs. CFL
 

On 1/25/14 5:39 PM, Bob F wrote:


Cut a bunch due to AIOE quotation limit.

The incandescent bulb draws the small amound of current that is making the CFLs
flicker to itself, keeping the voltage low so they don't flicker. If you want to
keep the power usage low, a very low wattage incandescent bulb will probably
work as well.

Would some sort of suppressor burn off the excess current? Maybe a
trip to Radio Shack would solve the problem. He could wire it to the
hot and neutral in the junction box for the light fixture.

Motion switch - incandescent vs. CFL
 

On 1/25/2014 6:12 PM, IGot2P wrote:
I just installed a motion detection switch in one room which is lighted by
4 CFL's in a fan. The CFL,s come on fine but when the motion switch shuts
them off they just flicker. Of course if I put 4 incandescent bulbs in the
unit all is fine. For the heck of it I put in 3 CFL's and 1 incandescent
bulb and to my surprise they ALL work!

Is there any reason that I can't leave it as above (3 CFL's & 1
incandescent)? In this manner I can save some electricity and still have my
motion switch work.

If necessary can I purchase CFL's that will work with my motion switch or
can I purchase a different motion switch that will work with my current CFL's?

Comments would be appreciated.

Don





The cheap motion switches you find in the local Borg are two-wire devices
which depend on current through the load to provide working power for the
control circuit. With incandescent lights this is no problem since a few mA
drawn through the filament wastes almost no power and emits no light. CFLs,
on the other hand don't really conduct properly until there is considerable
voltage applied. I ran into this just as you did except mine was in a
laundry room. I finally wound up using one small (40W?) incandescent lamp
and a fairly high output CFL in the two-socket fixture. It worked fine like
that for at least eight years. There are better sorts of motion detectors
out there but they depend on there being both a hot and neutral inside the
switch box and this is not generally what you see in home wiring. You have
to judge whether it is worthwhile re-wiring to make the better (more
expensive) motion switches work. It might be interesting (but expensive) to
test LED lights in place of CFLs and when the prices come down a bit I
might give them a try.

Motion switch - incandescent vs. CFL
 

IGot2P wrote:
I just installed a motion detection switch in one room which is lighted
by 4 CFL's in a fan. The CFL,s come on fine but when the motion switch
shuts them off they just flicker. Of course if I put 4 incandescent bulbs
in the unit all is fine. For the heck of it I put in 3 CFL's and 1
incandescent bulb and to my surprise they ALL work!

Is there any reason that I can't leave it as above (3 CFL's & 1
incandescent)? In this manner I can save some electricity and still have
my motion switch work.

If necessary can I purchase CFL's that will work with my motion switch or
can I purchase a different motion switch that will work with my current CFL's?

Comments would be appreciated.

Don

Incandescent bulbs are often added to X10 controlled circuits to make them
work with fluorescents. Even something as small as one of those Christmas
candles will work.

Motion switch - incandescent vs. CFL
 

On 1/25/2014 5:22 PM, wrote:

People have done this with a variety of electrical controls,
and gotten it to work. But the other question is, what
is the motion detector rated for use with? (snipped)

I just uploaded the specs and the installation diagram to one of my
domains. To look at them just point your browser to
http://www.dongares.com/motion.htm

Don

Motion switch - incandescent vs. CFL
 

On 1/25/2014 6:35 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
IGot2P wrote:
I just installed a motion detection switch in one room which is lighted
by 4 CFL's in a fan. The CFL,s come on fine but when the motion switch
shuts them off they just flicker. Of course if I put 4 incandescent bulbs
in the unit all is fine. For the heck of it I put in 3 CFL's and 1
incandescent bulb and to my surprise they ALL work!

Is there any reason that I can't leave it as above (3 CFL's & 1
incandescent)? In this manner I can save some electricity and still have
my motion switch work.

If necessary can I purchase CFL's that will work with my motion switch or
can I purchase a different motion switch that will work with my current CFL's?

Comments would be appreciated.

Don

Incandescent bulbs are often added to X10 controlled circuits to make them
work with fluorescents. Even something as small as one of those Christmas
candles will work.


Actually, another subject but your reply reminded me that I have a whole
box of X10 stuff somewhere that I never did use. Someday I will have to
get that out and put it on ebay.

Don

Motion switch - incandescent vs. CFL
 

On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 17:12:44 -0600, IGot2P wrote:

I just installed a motion detection switch in one room which is lighted
by 4 CFL's in a fan. The CFL,s come on fine but when the motion switch
shuts them off they just flicker. Of course if I put 4 incandescent
bulbs in the unit all is fine. For the heck of it I put in 3 CFL's and 1
incandescent bulb and to my surprise they ALL work!

Is there any reason that I can't leave it as above (3 CFL's & 1
incandescent)? In this manner I can save some electricity and still have
my motion switch work.

If necessary can I purchase CFL's that will work with my motion switch
or can I purchase a different motion switch that will work with my
current CFL's?

Comments would be appreciated.

Don




The switches that require a neutral usually work with CFLs. The ones
that do not need a neutral generally do NOT. No problem using one
straight resistance load (incandescent bulb) - even a 3 watt will do
the job.

Motion switch - incandescent vs. CFL
 

On 1/25/2014 8:35 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 17:12:44 -0600, IGot2P wrote:

(snipped to save bandwidth)
As everyone else has said, just keep an incandescent in the circuit. I
have a bunch of these around my house and even something like a
segment or 2 of rope light will work.
It really all depends on what you are trying to do.
OTOH a regular motion head like the Heath/Zenith works fine with a CFL
but that does require a neutral.

As an aside, the NEC now requires (2011) a neutral at every switching
location, just because of this problem.

You said that it requires a neutral. Is that different than the
uninsulated ground wire that I have in the switch box?

Don

Motion switch - incandescent vs. CFL
 

On Saturday, January 25, 2014 7:40:50 PM UTC-5, IGot2P wrote:
On 1/25/2014 5:22 PM, wrote:



People have done this with a variety of electrical controls,

and gotten it to work. But the other question is, what

is the motion detector rated for use with? (snipped)



I just uploaded the specs and the installation diagram to one of my

domains. To look at them just point your browser to

http://www.dongares.com/motion.htm



Don

The spec says it will work with 30W min fluorescent. It will
also even run a small motor. So, your strategy of using one
incandescent to up the current, and 3 or whatever CFL is perfectly
fine.

Motion switch - incandescent vs. CFL
 

On Saturday, January 25, 2014 6:50:48 PM UTC-5, Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 1/25/14 5:39 PM, Bob F wrote:





Cut a bunch due to AIOE quotation limit.



The incandescent bulb draws the small amound of current that is making the CFLs

flicker to itself, keeping the voltage low so they don't flicker. If you want to

keep the power usage low, a very low wattage incandescent bulb will probably

work as well.



Would some sort of suppressor burn off the excess current? Maybe a

trip to Radio Shack would solve the problem. He could wire it to the

hot and neutral in the junction box for the light fixture.

If you mean a surge suppressor, no, they don't burn current. They
look like an open circuit until the clamping voltage is exceeded.

Motion switch - incandescent vs. CFL
 

On 1/25/2014 7:35 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
IGot2P wrote:
I just installed a motion detection switch in one room which is lighted
by 4 CFL's in a fan. The CFL,s come on fine but when the motion switch
shuts them off they just flicker. Of course if I put 4 incandescent bulbs
in the unit all is fine. For the heck of it I put in 3 CFL's and 1
incandescent bulb and to my surprise they ALL work!

Is there any reason that I can't leave it as above (3 CFL's & 1
incandescent)? In this manner I can save some electricity and still have
my motion switch work.

If necessary can I purchase CFL's that will work with my motion switch or
can I purchase a different motion switch that will work with my current CFL's?

Comments would be appreciated.

Don

Incandescent bulbs are often added to X10 controlled circuits to make them
work with fluorescents. Even something as small as one of those Christmas
candles will work.

I have one of those motion detectors in the bathroom, connected to the
nightlight feature in the heater/fan/light/nightlight. A standard
nightlight bulb, flashed and blinked when off. I went to a 15 watt bulb
and flashing stopped. But, if you look at is when it's off, the
filament is glowing just a bit. Not a problem for my application. It's
really nice to go into the bathroom at night, an have the nightlight
turn on.

Motion switch - incandescent vs. CFL
 

On 1/25/2014 7:43 PM, IGot2P wrote:
On 1/25/2014 6:35 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
IGot2P wrote:
I just installed a motion detection switch in one room which is lighted
by 4 CFL's in a fan. The CFL,s come on fine but when the motion switch
shuts them off they just flicker. Of course if I put 4 incandescent
bulbs
in the unit all is fine. For the heck of it I put in 3 CFL's and 1
incandescent bulb and to my surprise they ALL work!

Is there any reason that I can't leave it as above (3 CFL's & 1
incandescent)? In this manner I can save some electricity and still have
my motion switch work.

If necessary can I purchase CFL's that will work with my motion
switch or
can I purchase a different motion switch that will work with my
current CFL's?

Comments would be appreciated.

Don

Incandescent bulbs are often added to X10 controlled circuits to make
them
work with fluorescents. Even something as small as one of those Christmas
candles will work.


Actually, another subject but your reply reminded me that I have a whole
box of X10 stuff somewhere that I never did use. Someday I will have to
get that out and put it on ebay.

Don

Let us know when you put the stuff up for sale.

Motion switch - incandescent vs. CFL
 

On 1/25/2014 8:31 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 17:12:44 -0600, IGot2P wrote:

I just installed a motion detection switch in one room which is lighted
by 4 CFL's in a fan. The CFL,s come on fine but when the motion switch
shuts them off they just flicker. Of course if I put 4 incandescent
bulbs in the unit all is fine. For the heck of it I put in 3 CFL's and 1
incandescent bulb and to my surprise they ALL work!

Is there any reason that I can't leave it as above (3 CFL's & 1
incandescent)? In this manner I can save some electricity and still have
my motion switch work.

If necessary can I purchase CFL's that will work with my motion switch
or can I purchase a different motion switch that will work with my
current CFL's?

Comments would be appreciated.

Don




The switches that require a neutral usually work with CFLs. The ones
that do not need a neutral generally do NOT. No problem using one
straight resistance load (incandescent bulb) - even a 3 watt will do
the job.

See my answer in this tread above. But in my case, even a nightlight
bulb flashed and blinked when the motion switch was off. Nightlight
bulbs can be 4, 5 or even 7 watts. And, totally off the topic of this
tread, I recently found, at Lowe's, of all places, 10 watt nightlight
bulbs, but they are the pear shaped one. I think they used be, or still
are called indicator lamps.

Motion switch - incandescent vs. CFL
 

On Sun, 26 Jan 2014 00:05:54 -0600, IGot2P wrote:

On 1/25/2014 8:35 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2014 17:12:44 -0600, IGot2P wrote:

(snipped to save bandwidth)
As everyone else has said, just keep an incandescent in the circuit. I
have a bunch of these around my house and even something like a
segment or 2 of rope light will work.
It really all depends on what you are trying to do.
OTOH a regular motion head like the Heath/Zenith works fine with a CFL
but that does require a neutral.

As an aside, the NEC now requires (2011) a neutral at every switching
location, just because of this problem.

You said that it requires a neutral. Is that different than the
uninsulated ground wire that I have in the switch box?

Don
Technically and legally, yes. Functionally, no.

Have I used it? yes
Would I recommend it,? No
Is it to code? HECK NO!!!!

Motion switch - incandescent vs. CFL
 

IGot2P wrote:
I just installed a motion detection switch in one room which is lighted
by 4 CFL's in a fan. The CFL,s come on fine but when the motion switch
shuts them off they just flicker. Of course if I put 4 incandescent bulbs
in the unit all is fine. For the heck of it I put in 3 CFL's and 1
incandescent bulb and to my surprise they ALL work!

Is there any reason that I can't leave it as above (3 CFL's & 1
incandescent)? In this manner I can save some electricity and still have
my motion switch work.

If necessary can I purchase CFL's that will work with my motion switch or
can I purchase a different motion switch that will work with my current CFL's?

Comments would be appreciated.

Don

You would think new switches would work on the new agenda. Relays work well
with cfls. Mechanical relay.

Greg

Motion switch - incandescent vs. CFL
 

On Mon, 27 Jan 2014 05:16:05 +0000 (UTC), gregz
wrote:

IGot2P wrote:
I just installed a motion detection switch in one room which is lighted
by 4 CFL's in a fan. The CFL,s come on fine but when the motion switch
shuts them off they just flicker. Of course if I put 4 incandescent bulbs
in the unit all is fine. For the heck of it I put in 3 CFL's and 1
incandescent bulb and to my surprise they ALL work!

Is there any reason that I can't leave it as above (3 CFL's & 1
incandescent)? In this manner I can save some electricity and still have
my motion switch work.

If necessary can I purchase CFL's that will work with my motion switch or
can I purchase a different motion switch that will work with my current CFL's?

Comments would be appreciated.

Don

You would think new switches would work on the new agenda. Relays work well
with cfls. Mechanical relay.

Greg
They only work with a neutral because you need to get current flowing
through the coil to turn on the light. Not enough current through a
cold CFL to reliably turn on the relay.