What's a good test of a pool drain (whether it's working or not)?

My pool is a bit complex, and, I'm trying to troubleshoot a poorly
functioning (supposedly) self-cleaning system, and, one datapoint
would be which of the 5 drains are working at any particular time.

I put my hands next to them, but I can't feel anything flowing.
What's a good test?

Here, for the record, is a picture of the main drain (yellow) on
the deep end and the main safety drain nearby on the wall (red):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/9330554473/

Here is a picture of a drain on the wall under one of the skimmers:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/9330560893/

And, here are two drains on the bottom of the spa:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/9330564727/

Given there are five drains, and three pumps (filter, cleaner, and
spa), it behooves me to figure out which drains are actually working
properly.

Hence the question:
Q: How best can we tell whether a drain is working properly at any
one point in time?

On Sunday, July 21, 2013 2:28:27 AM UTC-4, Danny D. wrote:
What's a good test of a pool drain (whether it's working or not)?



My pool is a bit complex, and, I'm trying to troubleshoot a poorly

functioning (supposedly) self-cleaning system, and, one datapoint

would be which of the 5 drains are working at any particular time.



I put my hands next to them, but I can't feel anything flowing.

What's a good test?



Here, for the record, is a picture of the main drain (yellow) on

the deep end and the main safety drain nearby on the wall (red):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/9330554473/



Here is a picture of a drain on the wall under one of the skimmers:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/9330560893/



And, here are two drains on the bottom of the spa:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/9330564727/



Given there are five drains, and three pumps (filter, cleaner, and

spa), it behooves me to figure out which drains are actually working

properly.



Hence the question:

Q: How best can we tell whether a drain is working properly at any

one point in time?


I haven't done this, but it seems worth a try. Get an appropriate
length of 1" PVC pipe and use it to pour a about a pint or so
of water with blue food dye in it a couple of feet away from the
drain.

On Sun, 21 Jul 2013 06:03:04 -0400, wrote:

Hence the question:
Q: How best can we tell whether a drain is working properly at any
one point in time?

Use food coloring in a small squeeze bottle. Squirt a little near the
drain and see where it goes. That is the same trick you use to find
pool leaks.

Third that vote. I was thinking food coloring before I read yours and
trader's comments.

Same thing for finding leaks from a toilet tank to the bowl.

On 7/21/2013 5:03 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 21 Jul 2013 06:28:27 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."
wrote:

What's a good test of a pool drain (whether it's working or not)?

My pool is a bit complex, and, I'm trying to troubleshoot a poorly
functioning (supposedly) self-cleaning system, and, one datapoint
would be which of the 5 drains are working at any particular time.

I put my hands next to them, but I can't feel anything flowing.
What's a good test?

Here, for the record, is a picture of the main drain (yellow) on
the deep end and the main safety drain nearby on the wall (red):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/9330554473/

Here is a picture of a drain on the wall under one of the skimmers:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/9330560893/

And, here are two drains on the bottom of the spa:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/98287134@N02/9330564727/

Given there are five drains, and three pumps (filter, cleaner, and
spa), it behooves me to figure out which drains are actually working
properly.

Hence the question:
Q: How best can we tell whether a drain is working properly at any
one point in time?

Use food coloring in a small squeeze bottle. Squirt a little near the
drain and see where it goes. That is the same trick you use to find
pool leaks.


Yup. I've been told to use the Phenol reagent (the red stuff) but I
think food color is probably a better idea.

Yup. I've been told to use the Phenol reagent (the red stuff) but I
think food color is probably a better idea.

Food coloring is supposed to be non-toxic, but maybe they just haven't tried on enough people yet to be sure, or maybe they didn't give the test subjects enough. Everything is toxic if used to excess. But food coloring seems to me to be the safest, easiest, and cheapest way to go.

On 7/20/2013 23:28, Danny D. wrote:
What's a good test of a pool drain (whether it's working or not)?

On a sunny day, gently enter the pool without stirring the water too
much. If the circulation is adequate the temperature will be the same
from the top to the bottom. For comparison try the same test when the
pump has not been running that day. Water near the top will naturally
be warmer than the bottom.

On Sun, 21 Jul 2013 06:28:27 +0000, Danny D. wrote:

Q: How best can we tell whether a drain is working properly

Thanks to your ideas, I ran a few experiments with the suggested
food coloring near the 5 drains, 2 skimmers, 15 popups, & 6 jets.
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2852/9...7fb7a969_z.jpg

I found out what each of the 5 foot-wide drains do (3 floor and 2 wall
drains) plus the two skimmers and the debris basket:
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3820/9...dc5a7534_z.jpg

1. Floor drain (main drain, in the deep end)
2. Safety drain (on the deep-end wall near the floor drain)
3. Spa drain (main, one of two drains on the floor of the spa)
4. Spa safety (next to the floor drain of the spa)
5. Skimmer drain (on the wall just below skimmer 1)

Basically, the pool operates on two wholly separate circuits.

*FILTER CIRCUIT:*
From main floor drain and secondary wall drain, to debris canister to
filter pump to filter and back through four wall jets in the main pool and
two wall jets in the spa and two always-on floor rotating pop-up squirters
in the pool.

*SKIMMER CIRCUIT:*
From skimmer 1 and skimmer 1 wall drain and skimmer 2 to skimmer (aka
cleaner) pump to water valve 1 to water valve 2 to 15 rotating popup
squirters, timed in series by the 9-port water valves.

I'm not sure which of the two floor drains in the spa is the main as
they both suck water when the main filter pump is running. I assume
they're 50:50 as there isn't any way to tell the difference other
than they look slightly different.

On Tue, 30 Jul 2013 19:52:37 +0000, Danny D. wrote:

I'm not sure which of the two floor drains in the spa is the main as
they both suck water when the main filter pump is running. I assume
they're 50:50 as there isn't any way to tell the difference other than
they look slightly different.

I couldn't tell which of the two spa floor drains was the main and which
was the safety though, as they both seemed to suck up dye equally:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3781/9...0dca9e19_o.jpg

replying to Danny D., Shay wrote:
Just for info. If you touch a main drain or swim around it, you wont feel
the water flowing nor suction. Reason being is because the covers are
anti-vortex. But aside from that, main drains are not like a bathtub where it
sucks in water forcefully. They pull in particals from the water, not just
water. And if you have a hot tub/Spa, you might see leaves or other debris in
the spa getting sucked toward the drains. This is because the drains In a spa
are stronger and the jets in the spa circulate the debris. And a main drain
isnt actually a drain, its a housing pipe, suction outlet that goes back
to the pump. Just wanted to put that out there.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...in-756443-.htm

On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 04:44:01 GMT, Shay
m wrote:

replying to Danny D., Shay wrote:
Just for info. If you touch a main drain or swim around it, you wont feel
the water flowing nor suction. Reason being is because the covers are
anti-vortex. But aside from that, main drains are not like a bathtub where it
sucks in water forcefully. They pull in particals from the water, not just
water. And if you have a hot tub/Spa, you might see leaves or other debris in
the spa getting sucked toward the drains. This is because the drains In a spa
are stronger and the jets in the spa circulate the debris. And a main drain
isnt actually a drain, its a housing pipe, suction outlet that goes back
to the pump. Just wanted to put that out there.

The best (safest) way to tell is with a stick of PVC pipe. Pour some
water in the top with a little food color in it with the pipe a foot
or 2 from the drain. If the drain is working the color will be sucked
in. If it just pools around, the drain is not working.

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 4:07:24 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 04:44:01 GMT, Shay
m wrote:

replying to Danny D., Shay wrote:
Just for info. If you touch a main drain or swim around it, you wont feel
the water flowing nor suction. Reason being is because the covers are
anti-vortex. But aside from that, main drains are not like a bathtub where it
sucks in water forcefully. They pull in particals from the water, not just
water. And if you have a hot tub/Spa, you might see leaves or other debris in
the spa getting sucked toward the drains. This is because the drains In a spa
are stronger and the jets in the spa circulate the debris. And a main drain
isnt actually a drain, its a housing pipe, suction outlet that goes back
to the pump. Just wanted to put that out there.

The best (safest) way to tell is with a stick of PVC pipe. Pour some
water in the top with a little food color in it with the pipe a foot
or 2 from the drain. If the drain is working the color will be sucked
in. If it just pools around, the drain is not working.

I used food dye to figure out the approximate location of a leak in a
skimmer line one time. The symptom was that small stones were showing
up in the filter basket. Then I observed that dirty, mud color water
showed up at the filter some seconds after the pump started. So, I
put some food coloring in the skimmer, turned on the pump and counted
the seconds for it to reach the filter. I also timed how long it
took for the muddy water to show up. Then I used the ratio of the
two times to figure that the break must be about at about 20% of the
run length, closer to the pump. Maybe I didn't need to do that, because
the next thing I came up with was to pressurize the line with the air
compressor. Doing that, I heard hissing and bubbling and there was air
coming out of the ground, right about at the predicted distance.
Fortunately the spot was just short of the stamped concrete deck.
Upon investigation, it looked like it was compromised when they backfilled
it some years earlier. It was that flex PVC and it was crushed and broken.
Had it been under the huge deck, that would have been a disaster.

On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 13:24:07 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 4:07:24 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 04:44:01 GMT, Shay
m wrote:

replying to Danny D., Shay wrote:
Just for info. If you touch a main drain or swim around it, you wont feel
the water flowing nor suction. Reason being is because the covers are
anti-vortex. But aside from that, main drains are not like a bathtub where it
sucks in water forcefully. They pull in particals from the water, not just
water. And if you have a hot tub/Spa, you might see leaves or other debris in
the spa getting sucked toward the drains. This is because the drains In a spa
are stronger and the jets in the spa circulate the debris. And a main drain
isnt actually a drain, its a housing pipe, suction outlet that goes back
to the pump. Just wanted to put that out there.

The best (safest) way to tell is with a stick of PVC pipe. Pour some
water in the top with a little food color in it with the pipe a foot
or 2 from the drain. If the drain is working the color will be sucked
in. If it just pools around, the drain is not working.

I used food dye to figure out the approximate location of a leak in a
skimmer line one time. The symptom was that small stones were showing
up in the filter basket. Then I observed that dirty, mud color water
showed up at the filter some seconds after the pump started. So, I
put some food coloring in the skimmer, turned on the pump and counted
the seconds for it to reach the filter. I also timed how long it
took for the muddy water to show up. Then I used the ratio of the
two times to figure that the break must be about at about 20% of the
run length, closer to the pump. Maybe I didn't need to do that, because
the next thing I came up with was to pressurize the line with the air
compressor. Doing that, I heard hissing and bubbling and there was air
coming out of the ground, right about at the predicted distance.
Fortunately the spot was just short of the stamped concrete deck.
Upon investigation, it looked like it was compromised when they backfilled
it some years earlier. It was that flex PVC and it was crushed and broken.
Had it been under the huge deck, that would have been a disaster.

I still have a little patch of grass next to my pool, right where the
skimmer is because that is where most pool leaks show up. The dog
likes a little grass there too. It is a comfortable place to take a
nap.

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 7:37:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 13:24:07 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 4:07:24 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 04:44:01 GMT, Shay
m wrote:

replying to Danny D., Shay wrote:
Just for info. If you touch a main drain or swim around it, you wont feel
the water flowing nor suction. Reason being is because the covers are
anti-vortex. But aside from that, main drains are not like a bathtub where it
sucks in water forcefully. They pull in particals from the water, not just
water. And if you have a hot tub/Spa, you might see leaves or other debris in
the spa getting sucked toward the drains. This is because the drains In a spa
are stronger and the jets in the spa circulate the debris. And a main drain
isnt actually a drain, its a housing pipe, suction outlet that goes back
to the pump. Just wanted to put that out there.

The best (safest) way to tell is with a stick of PVC pipe. Pour some
water in the top with a little food color in it with the pipe a foot
or 2 from the drain. If the drain is working the color will be sucked
in. If it just pools around, the drain is not working.

I used food dye to figure out the approximate location of a leak in a
skimmer line one time. The symptom was that small stones were showing
up in the filter basket. Then I observed that dirty, mud color water
showed up at the filter some seconds after the pump started. So, I
put some food coloring in the skimmer, turned on the pump and counted
the seconds for it to reach the filter. I also timed how long it
took for the muddy water to show up. Then I used the ratio of the
two times to figure that the break must be about at about 20% of the
run length, closer to the pump. Maybe I didn't need to do that, because
the next thing I came up with was to pressurize the line with the air
compressor. Doing that, I heard hissing and bubbling and there was air
coming out of the ground, right about at the predicted distance.
Fortunately the spot was just short of the stamped concrete deck.
Upon investigation, it looked like it was compromised when they backfilled
it some years earlier. It was that flex PVC and it was crushed and broken.
Had it been under the huge deck, that would have been a disaster.

I still have a little patch of grass next to my pool, right where the
skimmer is because that is where most pool leaks show up. The dog
likes a little grass there too. It is a comfortable place to take a
nap.

It's probably a good idea to make a deck out of pavers instead of stamped
concrete too. At least with regular concrete if you need to cut it, take
out a section, replace it, you can do that, though it may not match too well.
But with stamped I don't think you have a prayer. Sometimes I wonder how
many pools up here are not really winterized right, blowing out the lines,
correctly plugging them, etc. and people just get lucky because they are
deep enough and it just doesn't get cold enough most winters for them to
freeze and bust.

On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 16:47:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 7:37:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 13:24:07 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 4:07:24 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 04:44:01 GMT, Shay
m wrote:

replying to Danny D., Shay wrote:
Just for info. If you touch a main drain or swim around it, you wont feel
the water flowing nor suction. Reason being is because the covers are
anti-vortex. But aside from that, main drains are not like a bathtub where it
sucks in water forcefully. They pull in particals from the water, not just
water. And if you have a hot tub/Spa, you might see leaves or other debris in
the spa getting sucked toward the drains. This is because the drains In a spa
are stronger and the jets in the spa circulate the debris. And a main drain
isnt actually a drain, its a housing pipe, suction outlet that goes back
to the pump. Just wanted to put that out there.

The best (safest) way to tell is with a stick of PVC pipe. Pour some
water in the top with a little food color in it with the pipe a foot
or 2 from the drain. If the drain is working the color will be sucked
in. If it just pools around, the drain is not working.

I used food dye to figure out the approximate location of a leak in a
skimmer line one time. The symptom was that small stones were showing
up in the filter basket. Then I observed that dirty, mud color water
showed up at the filter some seconds after the pump started. So, I
put some food coloring in the skimmer, turned on the pump and counted
the seconds for it to reach the filter. I also timed how long it
took for the muddy water to show up. Then I used the ratio of the
two times to figure that the break must be about at about 20% of the
run length, closer to the pump. Maybe I didn't need to do that, because
the next thing I came up with was to pressurize the line with the air
compressor. Doing that, I heard hissing and bubbling and there was air
coming out of the ground, right about at the predicted distance.
Fortunately the spot was just short of the stamped concrete deck.
Upon investigation, it looked like it was compromised when they backfilled
it some years earlier. It was that flex PVC and it was crushed and broken.
Had it been under the huge deck, that would have been a disaster.

I still have a little patch of grass next to my pool, right where the
skimmer is because that is where most pool leaks show up. The dog
likes a little grass there too. It is a comfortable place to take a
nap.

It's probably a good idea to make a deck out of pavers instead of stamped
concrete too. At least with regular concrete if you need to cut it, take
out a section, replace it, you can do that, though it may not match too well.
But with stamped I don't think you have a prayer. Sometimes I wonder how
many pools up here are not really winterized right, blowing out the lines,
correctly plugging them, etc. and people just get lucky because they are
deep enough and it just doesn't get cold enough most winters for them to
freeze and bust.

All of the pool decks in the houses my wife built used pavers but that
was mostly because if they did not get the back fill compacted right
it was easy to pull up enough pavers to fill the low spot and get it
level again. Pavers also do not crack.

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 8:35:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 16:47:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 7:37:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 13:24:07 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 4:07:24 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 04:44:01 GMT, Shay
m wrote:

replying to Danny D., Shay wrote:
Just for info. If you touch a main drain or swim around it, you wont feel
the water flowing nor suction. Reason being is because the covers are
anti-vortex. But aside from that, main drains are not like a bathtub where it
sucks in water forcefully. They pull in particals from the water, not just
water. And if you have a hot tub/Spa, you might see leaves or other debris in
the spa getting sucked toward the drains. This is because the drains In a spa
are stronger and the jets in the spa circulate the debris. And a main drain
isnt actually a drain, its a housing pipe, suction outlet that goes back
to the pump. Just wanted to put that out there.

The best (safest) way to tell is with a stick of PVC pipe. Pour some
water in the top with a little food color in it with the pipe a foot
or 2 from the drain. If the drain is working the color will be sucked
in. If it just pools around, the drain is not working.

I used food dye to figure out the approximate location of a leak in a
skimmer line one time. The symptom was that small stones were showing
up in the filter basket. Then I observed that dirty, mud color water
showed up at the filter some seconds after the pump started. So, I
put some food coloring in the skimmer, turned on the pump and counted
the seconds for it to reach the filter. I also timed how long it
took for the muddy water to show up. Then I used the ratio of the
two times to figure that the break must be about at about 20% of the
run length, closer to the pump. Maybe I didn't need to do that, because
the next thing I came up with was to pressurize the line with the air
compressor. Doing that, I heard hissing and bubbling and there was air
coming out of the ground, right about at the predicted distance.
Fortunately the spot was just short of the stamped concrete deck.
Upon investigation, it looked like it was compromised when they backfilled
it some years earlier. It was that flex PVC and it was crushed and broken.
Had it been under the huge deck, that would have been a disaster.

I still have a little patch of grass next to my pool, right where the
skimmer is because that is where most pool leaks show up. The dog
likes a little grass there too. It is a comfortable place to take a
nap.

It's probably a good idea to make a deck out of pavers instead of stamped
concrete too. At least with regular concrete if you need to cut it, take
out a section, replace it, you can do that, though it may not match too well.
But with stamped I don't think you have a prayer. Sometimes I wonder how
many pools up here are not really winterized right, blowing out the lines,
correctly plugging them, etc. and people just get lucky because they are
deep enough and it just doesn't get cold enough most winters for them to
freeze and bust.

All of the pool decks in the houses my wife built used pavers but that
was mostly because if they did not get the back fill compacted right
it was easy to pull up enough pavers to fill the low spot and get it
level again. Pavers also do not crack.

Another big issue with stamped concrete is that the finish does not last
and wears off. My rear patio lasted about ten years, now it's painted.
It still looks good and I'm happy with it, but it's not as cool looking
as it originally was. When researching it many years ago, that was one
key point that I didn't see. And when they put it down, you can see what
happens. A base color is mixed into the concrete, then a different finishing
color is sprinkled on top before they stamp it with the pattern. That
top stuff is only embedded into the very top of the concrete and over time
it wears off and you start seeing just the base color concrete. At some
point, about ten+ years here, it starts to look noticeable and uneven.
Now it's painted. It still looks good, because you have the stamped
indentations that make it look like stone. But originally you had color
variation that made it look even better. Maybe you can prolong it longer
by re-sealing it more ofter. Did it about every 3 years here, but that's
a major pain in the ass project too. Pavers avoid that. Used the good sealer
stuff too, the solvent based, which you can't buy here anymore, courtesy
of the green nuts.

"trader_4" wrote in message
...
On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 8:35:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 16:47:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 7:37:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 13:24:07 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 4:07:24 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 04:44:01 GMT, Shay
m wrote:

replying to Danny D., Shay wrote:
Just for info. If you touch a main drain or swim around it, you
wont feel
the water flowing nor suction. Reason being is because the covers
are
anti-vortex. But aside from that, main drains are not like a
bathtub where it
sucks in water forcefully. They pull in particals from the water,
not just
water. And if you have a hot tub/Spa, you might see leaves or
other debris in
the spa getting sucked toward the drains. This is because the
drains In a spa
are stronger and the jets in the spa circulate the debris. And a
main drain
isnt actually a drain, its a housing pipe, suction outlet that
goes back
to the pump. Just wanted to put that out there.

The best (safest) way to tell is with a stick of PVC pipe. Pour
some
water in the top with a little food color in it with the pipe a
foot
or 2 from the drain. If the drain is working the color will be
sucked
in. If it just pools around, the drain is not working.

I used food dye to figure out the approximate location of a leak in a
skimmer line one time. The symptom was that small stones were
showing
up in the filter basket. Then I observed that dirty, mud color water
showed up at the filter some seconds after the pump started. So, I
put some food coloring in the skimmer, turned on the pump and counted
the seconds for it to reach the filter. I also timed how long it
took for the muddy water to show up. Then I used the ratio of the
two times to figure that the break must be about at about 20% of the
run length, closer to the pump. Maybe I didn't need to do that,
because
the next thing I came up with was to pressurize the line with the air
compressor. Doing that, I heard hissing and bubbling and there was
air
coming out of the ground, right about at the predicted distance.
Fortunately the spot was just short of the stamped concrete deck.
Upon investigation, it looked like it was compromised when they
backfilled
it some years earlier. It was that flex PVC and it was crushed and
broken.
Had it been under the huge deck, that would have been a disaster.

I still have a little patch of grass next to my pool, right where the
skimmer is because that is where most pool leaks show up. The dog
likes a little grass there too. It is a comfortable place to take a
nap.

It's probably a good idea to make a deck out of pavers instead of
stamped
concrete too. At least with regular concrete if you need to cut it,
take
out a section, replace it, you can do that, though it may not match too
well.
But with stamped I don't think you have a prayer. Sometimes I wonder
how
many pools up here are not really winterized right, blowing out the
lines,
correctly plugging them, etc. and people just get lucky because they are
deep enough and it just doesn't get cold enough most winters for them to
freeze and bust.

All of the pool decks in the houses my wife built used pavers but that
was mostly because if they did not get the back fill compacted right
it was easy to pull up enough pavers to fill the low spot and get it
level again. Pavers also do not crack.

Another big issue with stamped concrete is that the finish does not last
and wears off.

It hasnt done with the few I know well. Someone I know well's
builder husband did their driveway like that. Its a complete pain
in the arse to walk on with what you lot call flip flops and we call
thongs, but has last just as well as the best poured concrete
driveways for what has been well over 30 years now.

My rear patio lasted about ten years,

Because it wasnt done by someone who knows how to do them.

now it's painted.

Complete pain in the arse to have to do that and keep doing it.

It still looks good and I'm happy with it, but it's not as cool
looking as it originally was. When researching it many years
ago, that was one key point that I didn't see. And when they
put it down, you can see what happens. A base color is mixed
into the concrete, then a different finishing color is sprinkled
on top before they stamp it with the pattern. That top stuff is
only embedded into the very top of the concrete and over time
it wears off and you start seeing just the base color concrete.

Not when its done properly it doesnt.

At some point, about ten+ years here, it starts to look noticeable and
uneven.

Not when its done properly it doesnt.

Now it's painted. It still looks good, because you have the
stamped indentations that make it look like stone. But originally
you had color variation that made it look even better. Maybe
you can prolong it longer by re-sealing it more ofter.

Dont need to seal it at all when its done properly.

Did it about every 3 years here, but that's a major pain in the ass
project too.

Thats why it should be done properly in the first place.

Pavers avoid that. Used the good sealer stuff too, the solvent based,
which you can't buy here anymore, courtesy of the green nuts.

Not hard to make your own.

On Tue, 5 Mar 2019 05:56:59 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 8:35:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 16:47:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 7:37:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 13:24:07 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 4:07:24 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 04:44:01 GMT, Shay
m wrote:

replying to Danny D., Shay wrote:
Just for info. If you touch a main drain or swim around it, you wont feel
the water flowing nor suction. Reason being is because the covers are
anti-vortex. But aside from that, main drains are not like a bathtub where it
sucks in water forcefully. They pull in particals from the water, not just
water. And if you have a hot tub/Spa, you might see leaves or other debris in
the spa getting sucked toward the drains. This is because the drains In a spa
are stronger and the jets in the spa circulate the debris. And a main drain
isnt actually a drain, its a housing pipe, suction outlet that goes back
to the pump. Just wanted to put that out there.

The best (safest) way to tell is with a stick of PVC pipe. Pour some
water in the top with a little food color in it with the pipe a foot
or 2 from the drain. If the drain is working the color will be sucked
in. If it just pools around, the drain is not working.

I used food dye to figure out the approximate location of a leak in a
skimmer line one time. The symptom was that small stones were showing
up in the filter basket. Then I observed that dirty, mud color water
showed up at the filter some seconds after the pump started. So, I
put some food coloring in the skimmer, turned on the pump and counted
the seconds for it to reach the filter. I also timed how long it
took for the muddy water to show up. Then I used the ratio of the
two times to figure that the break must be about at about 20% of the
run length, closer to the pump. Maybe I didn't need to do that, because
the next thing I came up with was to pressurize the line with the air
compressor. Doing that, I heard hissing and bubbling and there was air
coming out of the ground, right about at the predicted distance.
Fortunately the spot was just short of the stamped concrete deck.
Upon investigation, it looked like it was compromised when they backfilled
it some years earlier. It was that flex PVC and it was crushed and broken.
Had it been under the huge deck, that would have been a disaster.

I still have a little patch of grass next to my pool, right where the
skimmer is because that is where most pool leaks show up. The dog
likes a little grass there too. It is a comfortable place to take a
nap.

It's probably a good idea to make a deck out of pavers instead of stamped
concrete too. At least with regular concrete if you need to cut it, take
out a section, replace it, you can do that, though it may not match too well.
But with stamped I don't think you have a prayer. Sometimes I wonder how
many pools up here are not really winterized right, blowing out the lines,
correctly plugging them, etc. and people just get lucky because they are
deep enough and it just doesn't get cold enough most winters for them to
freeze and bust.

All of the pool decks in the houses my wife built used pavers but that
was mostly because if they did not get the back fill compacted right
it was easy to pull up enough pavers to fill the low spot and get it
level again. Pavers also do not crack.

Another big issue with stamped concrete is that the finish does not last
and wears off. My rear patio lasted about ten years, now it's painted.
It still looks good and I'm happy with it, but it's not as cool looking
as it originally was. When researching it many years ago, that was one
key point that I didn't see. And when they put it down, you can see what
happens. A base color is mixed into the concrete, then a different finishing
color is sprinkled on top before they stamp it with the pattern. That
top stuff is only embedded into the very top of the concrete and over time
it wears off and you start seeing just the base color concrete. At some
point, about ten+ years here, it starts to look noticeable and uneven.
Now it's painted. It still looks good, because you have the stamped
indentations that make it look like stone. But originally you had color
variation that made it look even better. Maybe you can prolong it longer
by re-sealing it more ofter. Did it about every 3 years here, but that's
a major pain in the ass project too. Pavers avoid that. Used the good sealer
stuff too, the solvent based, which you can't buy here anymore, courtesy
of the green nuts.

I looked at a lot of different surfaces and ended up with natural
stone Decades later I have no regrets. If you are willing to put in
your own labor it really isn't all that expensive and you can do it
over a period of time. I have over 2200 square feet of it now.

The hardest part is doing the puzzle.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/rocks4.jpg

Then you mud them in
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/addi...0them%20in.jpg

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 Mar 2019 05:56:59 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 8:35:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 16:47:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 7:37:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 13:24:07 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 4:07:24 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 04:44:01 GMT, Shay
m wrote:

replying to Danny D., Shay wrote:
Just for info. If you touch a main drain or swim around it, you
wont feel
the water flowing nor suction. Reason being is because the covers
are
anti-vortex. But aside from that, main drains are not like a
bathtub where it
sucks in water forcefully. They pull in particals from the water,
not just
water. And if you have a hot tub/Spa, you might see leaves or
other debris in
the spa getting sucked toward the drains. This is because the
drains In a spa
are stronger and the jets in the spa circulate the debris. And a
main drain
isnt actually a drain, its a housing pipe, suction outlet that
goes back
to the pump. Just wanted to put that out there.

The best (safest) way to tell is with a stick of PVC pipe. Pour
some
water in the top with a little food color in it with the pipe a
foot
or 2 from the drain. If the drain is working the color will be
sucked
in. If it just pools around, the drain is not working.

I used food dye to figure out the approximate location of a leak in
a
skimmer line one time. The symptom was that small stones were
showing
up in the filter basket. Then I observed that dirty, mud color
water
showed up at the filter some seconds after the pump started. So, I
put some food coloring in the skimmer, turned on the pump and
counted
the seconds for it to reach the filter. I also timed how long it
took for the muddy water to show up. Then I used the ratio of the
two times to figure that the break must be about at about 20% of the
run length, closer to the pump. Maybe I didn't need to do that,
because
the next thing I came up with was to pressurize the line with the
air
compressor. Doing that, I heard hissing and bubbling and there was
air
coming out of the ground, right about at the predicted distance.
Fortunately the spot was just short of the stamped concrete deck.
Upon investigation, it looked like it was compromised when they
backfilled
it some years earlier. It was that flex PVC and it was crushed and
broken.
Had it been under the huge deck, that would have been a disaster.

I still have a little patch of grass next to my pool, right where the
skimmer is because that is where most pool leaks show up. The dog
likes a little grass there too. It is a comfortable place to take a
nap.

It's probably a good idea to make a deck out of pavers instead of
stamped
concrete too. At least with regular concrete if you need to cut it,
take
out a section, replace it, you can do that, though it may not match too
well.
But with stamped I don't think you have a prayer. Sometimes I wonder
how
many pools up here are not really winterized right, blowing out the
lines,
correctly plugging them, etc. and people just get lucky because they
are
deep enough and it just doesn't get cold enough most winters for them
to
freeze and bust.

All of the pool decks in the houses my wife built used pavers but that
was mostly because if they did not get the back fill compacted right
it was easy to pull up enough pavers to fill the low spot and get it
level again. Pavers also do not crack.

Another big issue with stamped concrete is that the finish does not last
and wears off. My rear patio lasted about ten years, now it's painted.
It still looks good and I'm happy with it, but it's not as cool looking
as it originally was. When researching it many years ago, that was one
key point that I didn't see. And when they put it down, you can see what
happens. A base color is mixed into the concrete, then a different
finishing
color is sprinkled on top before they stamp it with the pattern. That
top stuff is only embedded into the very top of the concrete and over time
it wears off and you start seeing just the base color concrete. At some
point, about ten+ years here, it starts to look noticeable and uneven.
Now it's painted. It still looks good, because you have the stamped
indentations that make it look like stone. But originally you had color
variation that made it look even better. Maybe you can prolong it longer
by re-sealing it more ofter. Did it about every 3 years here, but that's
a major pain in the ass project too. Pavers avoid that. Used the good
sealer
stuff too, the solvent based, which you can't buy here anymore, courtesy
of the green nuts.

I looked at a lot of different surfaces and ended up with natural
stone Decades later I have no regrets. If you are willing to put in
your own labor it really isn't all that expensive and you can do it
over a period of time. I have over 2200 square feet of it now.

The hardest part is doing the puzzle.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/rocks4.jpg

Must be a bugger to walk on with bare feet.

Then you mud them in
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/addi...0them%20in.jpg

Didnt realise you were that ugly.

On Wed, 6 Mar 2019 05:43:45 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


Another big issue with stamped concrete is that the finish does not last
and wears off.

It hasn¢t done with the few I know well.

Of course not, you auto-contradicting senile arsehole!

Someone I know well's
builder husband did their driveway like that.

You don't know ANYONE, you abnormal senile arsehole! It's the VERY reason
why you get up, EVERY DAY, between 1 and 4 am in Australia, just to be able
to continue with your obnoxious trolling without too long a break!

It¢s a complete pain in the arse

It's really YOU who is a complete pain in the arse, you obnoxious senile
Ozzie pest!

--
Bill Wright to Rot Speed:
"That confirms my opinion that you are a despicable little ****."
MID:

On Wed, 6 Mar 2019 07:19:08 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:



Must be a bugger to walk on with bare feet.

Then you mud them in
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/addi...0them%20in.jpg

Didn¢t realise you were that ugly.

He can't be as ugly as you are stupid, senile Rot!

--
FredXX to Rot Speed:
"You are still an idiot and an embarrassment to your country. No wonder
we shippe the likes of you out of the British Isles. Perhaps stupidity
and criminality is inherited after all?"
Message-ID:

On Wed, 6 Mar 2019 07:19:08 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 5 Mar 2019 05:56:59 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 8:35:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 16:47:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 7:37:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 13:24:07 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 4:07:24 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 04:44:01 GMT, Shay
m wrote:

replying to Danny D., Shay wrote:
Just for info. If you touch a main drain or swim around it, you
wont feel
the water flowing nor suction. Reason being is because the covers
are
anti-vortex. But aside from that, main drains are not like a
bathtub where it
sucks in water forcefully. They pull in particals from the water,
not just
water. And if you have a hot tub/Spa, you might see leaves or
other debris in
the spa getting sucked toward the drains. This is because the
drains In a spa
are stronger and the jets in the spa circulate the debris. And a
main drain
isnt actually a drain, its a housing pipe, suction outlet that
goes back
to the pump. Just wanted to put that out there.

The best (safest) way to tell is with a stick of PVC pipe. Pour
some
water in the top with a little food color in it with the pipe a
foot
or 2 from the drain. If the drain is working the color will be
sucked
in. If it just pools around, the drain is not working.

I used food dye to figure out the approximate location of a leak in
a
skimmer line one time. The symptom was that small stones were
showing
up in the filter basket. Then I observed that dirty, mud color
water
showed up at the filter some seconds after the pump started. So, I
put some food coloring in the skimmer, turned on the pump and
counted
the seconds for it to reach the filter. I also timed how long it
took for the muddy water to show up. Then I used the ratio of the
two times to figure that the break must be about at about 20% of the
run length, closer to the pump. Maybe I didn't need to do that,
because
the next thing I came up with was to pressurize the line with the
air
compressor. Doing that, I heard hissing and bubbling and there was
air
coming out of the ground, right about at the predicted distance.
Fortunately the spot was just short of the stamped concrete deck.
Upon investigation, it looked like it was compromised when they
backfilled
it some years earlier. It was that flex PVC and it was crushed and
broken.
Had it been under the huge deck, that would have been a disaster.

I still have a little patch of grass next to my pool, right where the
skimmer is because that is where most pool leaks show up. The dog
likes a little grass there too. It is a comfortable place to take a
nap.

It's probably a good idea to make a deck out of pavers instead of
stamped
concrete too. At least with regular concrete if you need to cut it,
take
out a section, replace it, you can do that, though it may not match too
well.
But with stamped I don't think you have a prayer. Sometimes I wonder
how
many pools up here are not really winterized right, blowing out the
lines,
correctly plugging them, etc. and people just get lucky because they
are
deep enough and it just doesn't get cold enough most winters for them
to
freeze and bust.

All of the pool decks in the houses my wife built used pavers but that
was mostly because if they did not get the back fill compacted right
it was easy to pull up enough pavers to fill the low spot and get it
level again. Pavers also do not crack.

Another big issue with stamped concrete is that the finish does not last
and wears off. My rear patio lasted about ten years, now it's painted.
It still looks good and I'm happy with it, but it's not as cool looking
as it originally was. When researching it many years ago, that was one
key point that I didn't see. And when they put it down, you can see what
happens. A base color is mixed into the concrete, then a different
finishing
color is sprinkled on top before they stamp it with the pattern. That
top stuff is only embedded into the very top of the concrete and over time
it wears off and you start seeing just the base color concrete. At some
point, about ten+ years here, it starts to look noticeable and uneven.
Now it's painted. It still looks good, because you have the stamped
indentations that make it look like stone. But originally you had color
variation that made it look even better. Maybe you can prolong it longer
by re-sealing it more ofter. Did it about every 3 years here, but that's
a major pain in the ass project too. Pavers avoid that. Used the good
sealer
stuff too, the solvent based, which you can't buy here anymore, courtesy
of the green nuts.

I looked at a lot of different surfaces and ended up with natural
stone Decades later I have no regrets. If you are willing to put in
your own labor it really isn't all that expensive and you can do it
over a period of time. I have over 2200 square feet of it now.

The hardest part is doing the puzzle.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/rocks4.jpg

Must be a bugger to walk on with bare feet.

Not at all once they are grouted in.

Then you mud them in
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/addi...0them%20in.jpg

Didnt realise you were that ugly.

**** you up the ass with a didgeridoo.
At least when you farted you would make more sense than what you say
here.

wrote in message
...
On Wed, 6 Mar 2019 07:19:08 +1100, "Rod Speed"
wrote:



wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 5 Mar 2019 05:56:59 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 8:35:58 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 16:47:38 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 7:37:06 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Mon, 4 Mar 2019 13:24:07 -0800 (PST), trader_4
wrote:

On Monday, March 4, 2019 at 4:07:24 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Mon, 04 Mar 2019 04:44:01 GMT, Shay
m wrote:

replying to Danny D., Shay wrote:
Just for info. If you touch a main drain or swim around it, you
wont feel
the water flowing nor suction. Reason being is because the
covers
are
anti-vortex. But aside from that, main drains are not like a
bathtub where it
sucks in water forcefully. They pull in particals from the
water,
not just
water. And if you have a hot tub/Spa, you might see leaves or
other debris in
the spa getting sucked toward the drains. This is because the
drains In a spa
are stronger and the jets in the spa circulate the debris. And
a
main drain
isnt actually a drain, its a housing pipe, suction outlet
that
goes back
to the pump. Just wanted to put that out there.

The best (safest) way to tell is with a stick of PVC pipe. Pour
some
water in the top with a little food color in it with the pipe a
foot
or 2 from the drain. If the drain is working the color will be
sucked
in. If it just pools around, the drain is not working.

I used food dye to figure out the approximate location of a leak
in
a
skimmer line one time. The symptom was that small stones were
showing
up in the filter basket. Then I observed that dirty, mud color
water
showed up at the filter some seconds after the pump started. So,
I
put some food coloring in the skimmer, turned on the pump and
counted
the seconds for it to reach the filter. I also timed how long it
took for the muddy water to show up. Then I used the ratio of the
two times to figure that the break must be about at about 20% of
the
run length, closer to the pump. Maybe I didn't need to do that,
because
the next thing I came up with was to pressurize the line with the
air
compressor. Doing that, I heard hissing and bubbling and there
was
air
coming out of the ground, right about at the predicted distance.
Fortunately the spot was just short of the stamped concrete deck.
Upon investigation, it looked like it was compromised when they
backfilled
it some years earlier. It was that flex PVC and it was crushed
and
broken.
Had it been under the huge deck, that would have been a disaster.

I still have a little patch of grass next to my pool, right where
the
skimmer is because that is where most pool leaks show up. The dog
likes a little grass there too. It is a comfortable place to take a
nap.

It's probably a good idea to make a deck out of pavers instead of
stamped
concrete too. At least with regular concrete if you need to cut it,
take
out a section, replace it, you can do that, though it may not match
too
well.
But with stamped I don't think you have a prayer. Sometimes I wonder
how
many pools up here are not really winterized right, blowing out the
lines,
correctly plugging them, etc. and people just get lucky because they
are
deep enough and it just doesn't get cold enough most winters for them
to
freeze and bust.

All of the pool decks in the houses my wife built used pavers but that
was mostly because if they did not get the back fill compacted right
it was easy to pull up enough pavers to fill the low spot and get it
level again. Pavers also do not crack.

Another big issue with stamped concrete is that the finish does not last
and wears off. My rear patio lasted about ten years, now it's painted.
It still looks good and I'm happy with it, but it's not as cool looking
as it originally was. When researching it many years ago, that was one
key point that I didn't see. And when they put it down, you can see
what
happens. A base color is mixed into the concrete, then a different
finishing
color is sprinkled on top before they stamp it with the pattern. That
top stuff is only embedded into the very top of the concrete and over
time
it wears off and you start seeing just the base color concrete. At some
point, about ten+ years here, it starts to look noticeable and uneven.
Now it's painted. It still looks good, because you have the stamped
indentations that make it look like stone. But originally you had color
variation that made it look even better. Maybe you can prolong it
longer
by re-sealing it more ofter. Did it about every 3 years here, but
that's
a major pain in the ass project too. Pavers avoid that. Used the good
sealer
stuff too, the solvent based, which you can't buy here anymore, courtesy
of the green nuts.

I looked at a lot of different surfaces and ended up with natural
stone Decades later I have no regrets. If you are willing to put in
your own labor it really isn't all that expensive and you can do it
over a period of time. I have over 2200 square feet of it now.

The hardest part is doing the puzzle.
http://gfretwell.com/ftp/rocks4.jpg

Must be a bugger to walk on with bare feet.

Not at all once they are grouted in.

Then you mud them in
http://gfretwell.com/electrical/addi...0them%20in.jpg

Didnt realise you were that ugly.

**** you up the ass with a didgeridoo.

Wouldnt fit, my arse isnt as obscene as yours.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

On Wed, 6 Mar 2019 13:07:06 +1100, cantankerous trolling senile geezer Rot
Speed blabbered, again:


**** you up the ass with a didgeridoo.

Wouldn¢t fit, my arse isnt as obscene as yours.

reams of your **** any 2 year old could leave for dead flushed where it
belongs

Like he said, "At least when you farted you would make more sense than what
you say here."

--
Bod addressing abnormal senile quarreller Rot:
"Do you practice arguing with yourself in an empty room?"
MID: