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#1
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
I want to install a STRONG shelf on my garage wall about a foot
above the floor. The shelf will be on the wall between the garage and the house. I plan to attach a 2 by 4 to the wall with lag bolts into the bottom plate of the wall. The back of shelf will sit on the 2 by 4 attached to the wall and the front will sit on another 2 by 4 supported by 2 by 4 legs. (The garage floor is about a foot below the finished floor of the house which is above the crawlspace. I live in an frost-free area so I do not have a basement. The bottom foot of the wall in the garage is concrete.) I want to attach 2 by 4 cross pieces to the front and back 2 by 4's with joist hangers about every 16 inches. I plan to attach the legs to the front 2 by 4 with upside-down joist hangers. I will use drywall screws to fasten the joist hangers to the 2 by 4's. I will use the largest particle board shelf I can find at Home Depot or Lowes as the top of the shelf. I think I have seen some that are 8 feet by 16 inches by about 0.75 inches thick. Does what I have described sound like a good plan? Can you think of anything I could change that would make the shelf easier to make, or less expensive? Thank you in advance for any help. -- When I am in the kitchen, I often kick one of my cat's balls. After I kick it, he will sometimes play with it for a few seconds to several minutes. His favorite are the ones that rattle. He'll play with any ball that makes noise. |
#2
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 11:48:29 AM UTC-4, Daniel Prince wrote:
I want to install a STRONG shelf on my garage wall about a foot above the floor. The shelf will be on the wall between the garage and the house. Can you use 16 inches instead of 12? Just stack two concrete blocks. Put the shelf on top of them. Stronger and cheaper. |
#3
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
On 7/3/2013 10:48 AM, Daniel Prince wrote:
I want to install a STRONG shelf on my garage wall about a foot above the floor. The shelf will be on the wall between the garage and the house. I plan to attach a 2 by 4 to the wall with lag bolts into the bottom plate of the wall. The back of shelf will sit on the 2 by 4 attached to the wall and the front will sit on another 2 by 4 supported by 2 by 4 legs. .... Does what I have described sound like a good plan? Can you think of anything I could change that would make the shelf easier to make, or less expensive? Thank you in advance for any help. Just how strong is "STRONG"? How much weight and of what type (concentrated vs distributed) load? I'd be _very_ surprised if you put enough on it that simply nailing up a frame w/ 16d commons thru the outer rims before mounting to wall wouldn't be sufficient. I'd probably just notch the legs and nail them as well and dispense w/ the hangers. Also, if you really are talking of supporting a lot of weight, 3/4 CDX ply is much more suitable than particle board (albeit that's a cost boost, not decrease). -- |
#4
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
Does what I have described sound like a good plan? Can you think of
anything I could change that would make the shelf easier to make, or less expensive? Thank you in advance for any help. Purpose of "shelf"? What kind of load do you expect, and what dimensions? Sounds more like you're building a bench... I'd build the basic frame on a flat floor to make sure the frame ends up being flat. Don't use drywall screws, they're brittle and will snap under load. Consider bracing the lower portion of the legs to prevent the legs from shifting/weakening under load. Or just use concrete block as another post suggested. |
#5
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
"TimR" wrote in message ... On Wednesday, July 3, 2013 11:48:29 AM UTC-4, Daniel Prince wrote: I want to install a STRONG shelf on my garage wall about a foot above the floor. The shelf will be on the wall between the garage and the house. Can you use 16 inches instead of 12? Just stack two concrete blocks. Put the shelf on top of them. Stronger and cheaper. They make 4 inch wide blocks also. stick them together with a few dabs of caulking. WW |
#6
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
Here's one guy's solution, I'd do it a little different but you'll
get the idea, partial board for strong shelves? No way.... they will sag even when braced. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MfzU-WhV1A |
#7
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
On Wed, 03 Jul 2013 08:48:29 -0700, Daniel Prince
wrote: I will use the largest particle board shelf I can find at Home Depot or Lowes as the top of the shelf. I think I have seen some that are 8 feet by 16 inches by about 0.75 inches thick. Does what I have described sound like a good plan? Can you think of anything I could change that would make the shelf easier to make, or less expensive? Depending on the use, particle board may be ideal, or if you have concentrated weight, it will have dips in it. The stuff is cheap, but very flexible compared to other materials. |
#8
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
Here's one guy's solution, I'd do it a little different but you'll
get the idea, partial board for strong shelves? No way.... they will sag even when braced. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MfzU-WhV1A |
#9
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
Daniel Prince wrote:
Here's one guy's solution, I'd do it a little different but you'll get the idea, partial board for strong shelves? No way.... they will sag even when braced. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MfzU-WhV1A |
#10
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
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#11
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
On Wed, 03 Jul 2013 18:02:46 -0500, Fat-Dumb and Happy
wrote: Daniel Prince wrote: Here's one guy's solution, I'd do it a little different but you'll get the idea, partial board for strong shelves? No way.... they will sag even when braced. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MfzU-WhV1A That works. 2x2s would do it if he's not storing lead acid batteries on them. More "elbow" space and better looking. I was thinking of making one set, but then I watched the video every times you posted, and decided making 3 was too much work. Besides, he was putting the shelves in the same spot every time. Didn't make much sense. |
#12
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
Vic Smith wrote:
On Wed, 03 Jul 2013 18:02:46 -0500, Fat-Dumb and Happy wrote: Daniel Prince wrote: Here's one guy's solution, I'd do it a little different but you'll get the idea, partial board for strong shelves? No way.... they will sag even when braced. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MfzU-WhV1A That works. 2x2s would do it if he's not storing lead acid batteries on them. More "elbow" space and better looking. I was thinking of making one set, but then I watched the video every times you posted, and decided making 3 was too much work. Besides, he was putting the shelves in the same spot every time. Didn't make much sense. I'm blaming it on the NSA, I kept getting a message the reply wouldn't send... so I tried it again... and again. |
#13
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
Daniel Prince wrote:
I want to install a STRONG shelf on my garage wall about a foot above the floor. The shelf will be on the wall between the garage and the house. I plan to attach a 2 by 4 to the wall with lag bolts into the bottom plate of the wall. The back of shelf will sit on the 2 by 4 attached to the wall and the front will sit on another 2 by 4 supported by 2 by 4 legs. (The garage floor is about a foot below the finished floor of the house which is above the crawlspace. I live in an frost-free area so I do not have a basement. Why does frost free imply no basement??? The bottom foot of the wall in the garage is concrete.) I want to attach 2 by 4 cross pieces to the front and back 2 by 4's with joist hangers about every 16 inches. I plan to attach the legs to the front 2 by 4 with upside-down joist hangers. I will use drywall screws to fasten the joist hangers to the 2 by 4's. I will use the largest particle board shelf I can find at Home Depot or Lowes as the top of the shelf. I think I have seen some that are 8 feet by 16 inches by about 0.75 inches thick. Drywall screws are definately NOT STRONG. Particle board is also NOT STRONG, and absolutely hates water. Does what I have described sound like a good plan? Can you think of anything I could change that would make the shelf easier to make, or less expensive? Thank you in advance for any help. |
#14
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
I just checked the NSA web site, and they admit to jamming your email feed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dNxK_wslqo They say that TSA was responsible. .. Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. .. "Fat-Dumb and Happy" wrote in message ... I was thinking of making one set, but then I watched the video every times you posted, and decided making 3 was too much work. I'm blaming it on the NSA, I kept getting a message the reply wouldn't send... so I tried it again... and again. |
#15
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
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#16
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
Daniel Prince wrote:
I want to install a STRONG shelf on my garage wall about a foot above the floor. The shelf will be on the wall between the garage and the house. I plan to attach a 2 by 4 to the wall with lag bolts into the bottom plate of the wall. The back of shelf will sit on the 2 by 4 attached to the wall and the front will sit on another 2 by 4 supported by 2 by 4 legs. (The garage floor is about a foot below the finished floor of the house which is above the crawlspace. I live in an frost-free area so I do not have a basement. Was does frost have to do with having a basement or not? .... Snip... |
#18
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
On 7/4/2013 11:20 AM, Daniel Prince wrote:
wrote: .... Don't use drywall screws, they're brittle and will snap under load. Can you recommend screws that are as easy to drive as drywall screws but are not brittle? If they're only in compression and not shear they'll serve to hold pieces together, but, as noted previously, why? Just nail it together; if you arrange it right all they're doing is holding the pieces in place. As suggested before just build the square frame and fasten it to the wall then use a few strategically-located legs(+) under for supports. If you either just fit them under (w/ a scab to hold in place) or (better) notch to match, then the weight is all transferred to them and the fasteners aren't doing anything to hold up the weight; that's being borne by the end grain of the legs and the compressive load on the frame/shelf. No need to make it any more complex than needs be... (+) Since is garage and you've indicated some existing termite issues, I'd suggest using p-treated for the parts touching floor/concrete and the back wall cleat/frame piece. That'll minimize desirability of the pieces that are in contact and not fully visible at least. -- |
#19
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
On Thu, 04 Jul 2013 09:20:53 -0700, Daniel Prince
wrote: Don't use drywall screws, they're brittle and will snap under load. Can you recommend screws that are as easy to drive as drywall screws but are not brittle? Spax screws Check out Lee Valley and McFeelys www.leevalley.com www.mcfeelys.com http://www.leevalley.com/US/hardware...06,41315,47226 http://www.mcfeelys.com/spax-screws |
#20
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
Daniel Prince wrote:
wrote: Does what I have described sound like a good plan? Can you think of anything I could change that would make the shelf easier to make, or less expensive? Thank you in advance for any help. Purpose of "shelf"? What kind of load do you expect, and what dimensions? Sounds more like you're building a bench... I have two old bookcases and a steel cabinet against the wall. I had several termite mud tunnels behind the bookcases and the cabinet that I could not see. I want to put the bookcases and the cabinet on the shelf with the space under the shelf empty so that I can easily see any termite mud tunnels. The bookcases are lightly loaded but the steel cabinet is full of power tools and extension cords so it is moderately heavy. For what you want to accomplish, I think you may want to just get rid of the cabinet and bookcases that you now have and just replace them with these shelves from Home Depot: http://www.homedepot.com/p/HDX-5-She...1099/100010588 . They are cheap and strong, and they set up in minutes. Each set only costs about $35; and are 36-inches wide, 18-inches deep, and 72-inches high. Two or three sets is all you would need to create the amount of shelf surface area that you are thinking of building. Here is a link to a video that shows how easy they are to put together: http://cache.vendaria.com/integratio..._2109425036001 I have these in two different garages and two different basements. They are very strong and solidly built. I store power tools and equipment and other heavy items on them with no problem at all. And, they sit up off the ground and are "see-through" -- meaning there are no backs on the shelves, so you can see the wall behind the shelves. And, you can even see down through the shelves -- including the bottom shelf to see the floor and wall at the ground level. You wouldn't miss seeing any termite tunnels with these shelves. And, since they are made of plastic, the termites won't attack them like they could the wooden shelves that you are thinking of building. |
#21
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
On 7/4/2013 1:43 PM, TomR wrote:
Daniel Prince wrote: wrote: .... I have two old bookcases and a steel cabinet against the wall. I had several termite mud tunnels behind the bookcases and the cabinet that I could not see. I want to put the bookcases and the cabinet on the shelf with the space under the shelf empty so that I can easily see any termite mud tunnels. The bookcases are lightly loaded but the steel cabinet is full of power tools and extension cords so it is moderately heavy. For what you want to accomplish, I think you may want to just get rid of the cabinet and bookcases that you now have and just replace them with these shelves from Home Depot: ....[big snip for brevity]... +1 Other than OP may want to keep the (I presume file) cabinet -- if so, that would definitely be candidate for the block support idea so can check underneath... -- |
#22
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
DerbyDad03 wrote:
Was does frost have to do with having a basement or not? My understanding is that in areas that have frost, footings have to go four feet or more underground. Builders often decide that if they have to dig that deep, they might as well dig a little deeper and have a basement they can use for water heaters, furnaces, oil tanks, water filters, water softners, electrical panels, pipe, ductwork and wire runs etc. -- When a cat sits in a human's lap both the human and the cat are usually happy. The human is happy because he thinks the cat is sitting on him/her because it loves her/him. The cat is happy because it thinks that by sitting on the human it is dominant over the human. |
#23
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
dpb wrote:
Other than OP may want to keep the (I presume file) cabinet It is the type of wardrobe cabinet factories use for workers. It is two feet wide and about six feet high. -- When a cat sits in a human's lap both the human and the cat are usually happy. The human is happy because he thinks the cat is sitting on him/her because it loves her/him. The cat is happy because it thinks that by sitting on the human it is dominant over the human. |
#24
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
On Fri, 05 Jul 2013 02:30:50 -0700, Daniel Prince
wrote: DerbyDad03 wrote: Was does frost have to do with having a basement or not? My understanding is that in areas that have frost, footings have to go four feet or more underground. Builders often decide that if they have to dig that deep, they might as well dig a little deeper and have a basement they can use for water heaters, furnaces, oil tanks, water filters, water softners, electrical panels, pipe, ductwork and wire runs etc. While that does have a ring of truth, it is probably more likely that the water table is low enough that if we dig a hole it will stay dry. Once you get the cellar hole dug you still have to dig a little deeper around the perimeter and pour a footing. |
#25
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
Daniel Prince wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote: Was does frost have to do with having a basement or not? My understanding is that in areas that have frost, footings have to go four feet or more underground. To be more precise, footings have to be placed below the frost line. In many areas, it is indeed 4 feet. In some areas it's less, in some it's much more. https://www.decks.com/deckbuilding/D...rost_Depth_Map Builders often decide that if they have to dig that deep, they might as well dig a little deeper and have a basement they can use for water heaters, furnaces, oil tanks, water filters, water softners, electrical panels, pipe, ductwork and wire runs etc. To be more precise, the person(s) who contracted the building to be built will decide whether a basement should be added, assuming that there are no other factors the would prevent it. In your OP you said "I live in an frost-free area so I do not have a basement" I don't know the real reason as to why you don't have a basement, but it's not because you live in a frost free area. In other words, there are lots of houses in frost free areas that have basements for all the reasons you mentioned above, plus many more. Good luck with your shelf project. |
#26
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
"Daniel Prince" wrote in message ... wrote: Snip Don't use drywall screws, they're brittle and will snap under load. Can you recommend screws that are as easy to drive as drywall screws but are not brittle? -- I use dry wall screws on all types of woodworking. The only time having them break is on twisting (as when driving into oak and forgetting to pre drill. WW |
#27
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
Daniel Prince wrote:
dpb wrote: Other than OP may want to keep the (I presume file) cabinet It is the type of wardrobe cabinet factories use for workers. It is two feet wide and about six feet high. If you want to keep the wardrobe cabinet, maybe just put that up on a few bricks or blocks so you can look under it for termite tunnels. And then just get two sets of the shelves that I posted about earlier and use them to replace the wooden shelves that you have now. |
#28
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
On 7/5/2013 6:42 AM, WW wrote:
"Daniel Prince" wrote in message ... wrote: Snip Don't use drywall screws, they're brittle and will snap under load. Can you recommend screws that are as easy to drive as drywall screws but are not brittle? gold deck screws from the borg |
#29
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
WW wrote:
"Daniel Prince" wrote in message ... wrote: Snip Don't use drywall screws, they're brittle and will snap under load. Can you recommend screws that are as easy to drive as drywall screws but are not brittle? Drywall screws are not designed for strength. They are skinny brittle little thing designed to hole a weak brittle sheet to the wall. |
#30
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
Daniel Prince wrote:
wrote: Does what I have described sound like a good plan? Can you think of anything I could change that would make the shelf easier to make, or less expensive? Thank you in advance for any help. Purpose of "shelf"? What kind of load do you expect, and what dimensions? Sounds more like you're building a bench... I have two old bookcases and a steel cabinet against the wall. I had several termite mud tunnels behind the bookcases and the cabinet that I could not see. I want to put the bookcases and the cabinet on the shelf with the space under the shelf empty so that I can easily see any termite mud tunnels. The bookcases are lightly loaded but the steel cabinet is full of power tools and extension cords so it is moderately heavy. Don't use drywall screws, they're brittle and will snap under load. Can you recommend screws that are as easy to drive as drywall screws but are not brittle? I'm purposely not getting into argument about the strength of drywall screws because I don't think that's the main concern here. I'd be more concerned about dampness, thus the suggestion to use PT wood for any wood that touches concrete. Drywall screws will rust and eventually disintegrate if they remain wet. I would suggest that you use Deckmates or other such screws that are designed for exterior use. Not only will they last longer, but the star drive will make them much easier to install. |
#31
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
On 7/7/2013 9:57 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
.... I'm purposely not getting into argument about the strength of drywall screws because I don't think that's the main concern here. .... And, there's really no need for screws, per se, anyway...other than the one ledger against the wall, possibly, and even there a 12 or 16d common will be all it'll ever need. And, as for the rest of the frame, ditto. There's nothing in tension to need anything more if it's designed at all smartly. -- |
#32
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
On Sun, 7 Jul 2013 14:57:15 +0000 (UTC), DerbyDad03
wrote: Not only will they last longer, but the star drive will make them much easier to install. I use square drive (aka Robertson) when I have a choice. But to each his own. |
#33
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
dpb wrote:
On 7/7/2013 9:57 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote: ... I'm purposely not getting into argument about the strength of drywall screws because I don't think that's the main concern here. ... And, there's really no need for screws, per se, anyway...other than the one ledger against the wall, possibly, and even there a 12 or 16d common will be all it'll ever need. And, as for the rest of the frame, ditto. There's nothing in tension to need anything more if it's designed at all smartly. -- Given the choice of attaching the ledger with screws or nails, I'll choose screws every time. In fact, given the choice of nails vs. screws for any attachment, I'll choose screws virtually every time. Easy install, easy removal, etc. Obviously there are times when nails make more sense, like trim, etc. However, if I'm building a frame for a shelf or anything similar, it's getting screwed together. Granted, if I had a framing nailer or even a palm nailer, I might use nails for some projects, but when it's a choice between a hammer and screw gun, the screw gun wins out every time. |
#34
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Installing a STRONG shelf on garage wall
On 7/7/2013 11:28 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
.... Given the choice of attaching the ledger with screws or nails, I'll choose screws every time. In fact, given the choice of nails vs. screws for any attachment, I'll choose screws virtually every time. Easy install, easy removal, etc. .... OP said he was going w/ lag's for that so I presumed we were talking the frame, etc., primarily if not exclusively. OTOH, for his purpose, it'll never come off o' there if just nailed, either-- Granted, if I had a framing nailer or even a palm nailer, I might use nails for some projects, but when it's a choice between a hammer and screw gun, the screw gun wins out every time. I've got both but the hammer will win almost every time w/ me--it's less nuisance and cheaper and unless there's a real reason for the screw it just doesn't turn me on (so to speak... )... A prime reason may be you'll play the devil driving a screw of _any_ sort in any of this 100-yo SYP which is 90% of what I'm generally dealing with either in the house or any of the outbuildings. OTOH I _can_ drive a nail in it. -- |
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