The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.
They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is
attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for
doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back
where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.

I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also
have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Don Wiss wrote in
:

The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

One and a half **INCHES** ? Really? You're making a fuss about one and a half
**INCHES** ?

They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
right to slice the posts and top right at the line?

You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing anything at
all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.

On 6/24/2013 9:56 AM, Don Wiss wrote:
The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.
They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is
attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for
doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back
where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.

I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also
have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).


Did you ask your local inspection department? Or confer with a real
estate specialist? o_O

TDD

On Monday, June 24, 2013 10:56:44 AM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed

them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have

the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they

not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an

issue.



All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the

right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is

attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for

doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back

where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.



I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also

have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?



Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Well for one thing, I don't believe that your neighbor is allowed to install the fence with the bad side facing your property. Unless you've got some strange fence ordinances where you live, the standard rules call for the good side to face the neighbors.

Seems to me that while they are "turning the fence around" they should reposition it to be totally on their property. It could cause serious issues later on if you or they decide to sell.

Second, are you sure that your local ordinances don't require a set back for fences? My town allows the fence to be right on the property line, but many municipalities don't.

Do you and your neighbor not get along? It seems wierd that you pointed pointed out the property line and they still encroached upon your property, apparently without any further discussion. How did the property line discussion go when you brought it up?

I would bring the discrepancy to the attention of the surveyor and have him ammend his most recent survey or otherwise address the problem.

If it's only 1 1/2 inches, perhaps all that's needed is something in writing from your neighbor acknowledging that his fence encroaches that distance onto your property. Put that in your safety deposit box in case it ever becomes an issue.

Don Wiss wrote:
The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.
They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is
attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for
doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back
where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.

I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also
have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).


I agree with most of the others, you should talk with your neighbor
first. As for me, if the issue was 1 1/2 inches, I would tell him about
it and ignore it for now if it was established as a fact. You are not
forfeiting your property to him, just not objecting to a miniscule issue.

Finally, I am not so sure you have the right to cut off tree limbs that
hang over your property line. Most cities say you have that right if
they prevent you from using your property, but not for a simple
overhang. Can you imagine what most trees would look like if everyone
did what you proposed??

Don,

Destroying your neighbor's property is not legal. It's not clear in your
posting why you and the neighbor aren't resolving these issues though it
sounds like you see mountains where others see mole-hills. Here are some
options.
You may write to your neighbor giving your permission for his encroaching
fence. This may prevent "adverse possession" of the property and may help
heal whatever ill feelings exist.
You may complain to various municipal inspectors about the fence. There
may be a need for a building permit. There may be a need for a setback.
There may be a requirement that the "good" side of the fence face outward.
This shouldn't be expensive.
You may sue in civil court (this is not a small claims case}to get an
order to fix the fence. You'll probably need a lawyer to do this.

Dave M.

On Monday, June 24, 2013 12:28:46 PM UTC-4, Ken wrote:
Don Wiss wrote:

The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed

them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have

the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they

not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an

issue.



All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the

right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is

attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for

doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back

where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.



I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also

have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?



Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).





I agree with most of the others, you should talk with your neighbor

first. As for me, if the issue was 1 1/2 inches, I would tell him about

it and ignore it for now if it was established as a fact. You are not

forfeiting your property to him, just not objecting to a miniscule issue.



Finally, I am not so sure you have the right to cut off tree limbs that

hang over your property line. Most cities say you have that right if

they prevent you from using your property, but not for a simple

overhang. Can you imagine what most trees would look like if everyone

did what you proposed??

Are you sure that most cities have a "right to use" language in their ordinances? That is not how I have always understood it.

I have always thought that it worked like the first question at this site:

http://realestate.findlaw.com/neighb...neighbors.html

Just how would "right to use" be defined? If a neighbor's limb was scraping my roof, it wouldn't prevent me from using my roof or any other part of my property. Does that mean I can't cut it to protect my investment?

If the limb overhung my driveway and dripped sap and bird droppings on my vehicles, it wouldn't prevent me from using them or my driveway. Does that mean I can't cut them back so that I can enjoy my vehicles, not just use them?

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, Doug Miller
wrote:

Don Wiss wrote:
The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

One and a half **INCHES** ? Really? You're making a fuss about one and a half
**INCHES** ?

Back yards aren't very big here in Brooklyn. And as I wrote, his fence
won't line up with the fence I'm putting across the back for the part that
does not overlap.

You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing anything at
all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.

I am absolutely sure. I have at this point only told his architect. He did
not respond. I'm doubt the owner had anything to do with it. It was most
likely the contractor's fault.

The fellow is new to the neighborhood. He still hasn't finished the now
three year renovation project that he undertook when he bought the house.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 18:11:37 +0200, wrote:

I would bring the discrepancy to the attention of the surveyor and have
him ammend his most recent survey or otherwise address the problem.

What does the surveyor have to do with this. We both used the same
surveyor. There can be no dispute over the surveyor's accuracy.

If it's only 1 1/2 inches, perhaps all that's needed is something in
writing from your neighbor acknowledging that his fence encroaches that
distance onto your property. Put that in your safety deposit box in
case it ever becomes an issue.

Maybe.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, "David L. Martel" wrote:

Destroying your neighbor's property is not legal.

That is a good point. Though it wouldn't exactly be destroying.

It's not clear in your
posting why you and the neighbor aren't resolving these issues though it
sounds like you see mountains where others see mole-hills. Here are some
options.

One of the problems is the neighbor cannot move the fence. After he put it
up he piled over two feet of soil on his side. It is a cedar fence. I
gather at some point it will rot and the soil dump onto my yard.

You may write to your neighbor giving your permission for his encroaching
fence. This may prevent "adverse possession" of the property and may help
heal whatever ill feelings exist.

Possibly. But I still have a mismatch between the part of my back yard with
this fence and the rest of my back property line.

You may complain to various municipal inspectors about the fence. There
may be a need for a building permit. There may be a need for a setback.
There may be a requirement that the "good" side of the fence face outward.
This shouldn't be expensive.

There is no need for a permit for a fence 6' or less. This is 7'. The
height is illegal, as he did not file for a permit. There is no need for a
setback. With backyards that are 20' x 29 5-3/4" a setback wouldn't make
sense. There is a setback for a/c condensers that no one follows. There is
no requirement that the good side face the neighbor. It is only fence
etiquette.

You may sue in civil court (this is not a small claims case}to get an
order to fix the fence. You'll probably need a lawyer to do this.

But far simpler than all of this is to simply slice off the part that is in
my yard. Very simple to do.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:43:00 -0400, wrote:

On Doug Miller wrote:
You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing anything at
all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.

There is no such thing. We like to think surveys are some kind of
exact science but when they actually started looking they find +/- a
foot is about as good as they get.

You are thinking of a survey in the countryside. This is in the city. They
are accurate to 1/4". The surveyor spent quite a bit of time finding the
four corners of the backyard. He had already done the survey for this back
neighbor. The back neighbor's survey also appears on my survey.

He had to get a survey as he built an extension out the back. When doing my
survey the surveyor looked at the new extension with his instrument and
said he had put it exactly at the property line. And let me look in and
see.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:19:48 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

Don Wiss wrote in
:

The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my
property.

One and a half **INCHES** ? Really? You're making a fuss about one
and a half **INCHES** ?

They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor.
I showed them where the line was. But they went ahead and did
this in order to have the entire top fit behind a phone pole that
is on their property. Had they not faced the good side towards
themselves, it would not have been an issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I
have the right to slice the posts and top right at the line?

You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate,
before doing anything at all. And your next step after that should
be to talk to your neighbor.

There is no such thing. We like to think surveys are some kind of
exact science but when they actually started looking they find +/- a
foot is about as good as they get.

Surely you jest. I did fractions of an inch over 40 acres with a plane
table and alelaide. I got within 6" over 250 yards on my property with a
1x2 with two nails in the end.
__________________


They are even finding out the section monuments are frequently
misplaced.

Nevertheless, that is still the reference point.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Monday, June 24, 2013 12:43:00 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:19:48 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller

wrote:



Don Wiss wrote in

:



The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.



One and a half **INCHES** ? Really? You're making a fuss about one and a half

**INCHES** ?



They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed

them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have

the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they

not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an

issue.



All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the

right to slice the posts and top right at the line?



You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing anything at

all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.



There is no such thing. We like to think surveys are some kind of

exact science but when they actually started looking they find +/- a

foot is about as good as they get.

I have 3 survey stakes in the North West corner of my lot from 3

surveyors over the years that you could not cover with a drywall

bucket.



If you are not close to a section monument, where they start is

arbitrary, usually aligning to the centerline of a road ... that is

usually not actually in the right place. That is particularly true in

developments where the developer built the road and ceded it to the

county.



They are even finding out the section monuments are frequently

misplaced.



I just watched a survey of the lot around the corner from me. This guy

just used a metal detector to find old stakes and they took them as

gospel.

Unfortunately one was not really a survey marker so they just put a

dog leg in the property line that does not exist on the plat.

About 25 years ago, I had to include a copy of an offcial survey map of my property when I submitted the plans to build my deck. They wanted a survey map with the deck drawn on it, to scale.

I was as careful as I could be, drawing the deck on the map and then, just to be sure, I measured the "scaled setback" on the map and then went out back and measured the actual setback based on where I would be setting my posts.

To my surprise, I physically had about 10 more feet of actual setback than the map showed. How the heck could I have screwed up drawing the deck on the map that badly? I check my drawing and everything was fine.

Then I went out front and measured from the property line to the front of the house and found that I had 10 less feet of actual lawn than the map showed. It turned out that they had drawn the house on the map 10 feet further back than is actually was.

The survey had been done about 6 months earlier when I bought the house, so I called the survey company and explained the issue. A few days later one of my stay-at-home neighbors said that they had a crew of 4 guys walking around the neighborhood, climbing fences and looking under bushes for stakes and markers.

It seems that I shook 'em up pretty good! I later found out that they eventually found a "permanent" survey marker about a block from my house and redrew my map based on that. When I got the new map, it measured to within inches of where my house physically sat.

Don Wiss wrote:
The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my
property. They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same
surveyor. I showed them where the line was. But they went ahead and
did this in order to have the entire top fit behind a phone pole
that is on their property. Had they not faced the good side towards
themselves, it would not have been an issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have
the right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence
back is attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability.
The reason for doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm
adding a fence to the back where this fence isn't, and it won't
line up.

I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But
do I also have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?

Both surveys show the line in the same place, right? And despite that, they
encroached on your property, right? Question: why did you not stop them?

I have no idea what the law is relative to this but law is usually rational
and follows common sense. Those lead me to two beliefs:

1. You can't just chop away

2. You can force them to move the fence and reimburse you for any expenses
you may incur in doing so.

What they *should* have done is set the fence into *their* property to
bypass the pole. That or get the utility company to move the pole
sufficiently onto their lot so they could put the fence on the line and
clear the pole.

If you haven't already done so, sending them a registered letter with return
receipt might be in order; just state that their recent construction has
encroached on your property and tell them to rectify it within x days/weeks.

After that, lawyer time, good luck.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:10:51 -0400, wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:58:51 -0400, Don Wiss wrote:

There is no need for a permit for a fence 6' or less. This is 7'. The
height is illegal, as he did not file for a permit.

Talk to the neighbor, express your concerns. If he tells you to go
**** yourself, call code enforcement and ask them to enforce the code.
They have the power to make him move the fence or face fines.

There is no question that I can have him get in trouble for having the
fence too high. But I am not aware of any building code that says the city
will step in if the fence if over the line. But maybe there is.

I just e-mailed the contractor. I had been trying to not rub him the wrong
way. He has some capabilities that not all contractors have. I have been
hoping to hire him for projects at my house. This e-mail may burn my
bridges with him.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).
Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:24:14 -0400, "dadiOH" wrote:

Both surveys show the line in the same place, right?

Correct.

And despite that, they
encroached on your property, right? Question: why did you not stop them?

I stopped them when they tried to put it 2 3/4" over. I showed them where
the line is. I assumed that they then did it right. Only now have I
discovered that they didn't. And the discovery was made when my fence guy
put in the side fence and it didn't line up with this fence. So we measured
to see what was going on.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On 6/24/2013 9:58 AM, Don Wiss wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, "David L. Martel" wrote:

Destroying your neighbor's property is not legal.

That is a good point. Though it wouldn't exactly be destroying.

It's not clear in your
posting why you and the neighbor aren't resolving these issues though it
sounds like you see mountains where others see mole-hills. Here are some
options.

One of the problems is the neighbor cannot move the fence. After he put it
up he piled over two feet of soil on his side. It is a cedar fence. I
gather at some point it will rot and the soil dump onto my yard.

You may write to your neighbor giving your permission for his encroaching
fence. This may prevent "adverse possession" of the property and may help
heal whatever ill feelings exist.

Possibly. But I still have a mismatch between the part of my back yard with
this fence and the rest of my back property line.

You may complain to various municipal inspectors about the fence. There
may be a need for a building permit. There may be a need for a setback.
There may be a requirement that the "good" side of the fence face outward.
This shouldn't be expensive.

There is no need for a permit for a fence 6' or less. This is 7'. The
height is illegal, as he did not file for a permit. There is no need for a
setback. With backyards that are 20' x 29 5-3/4" a setback wouldn't make
sense. There is a setback for a/c condensers that no one follows. There is
no requirement that the good side face the neighbor. It is only fence
etiquette.

You may sue in civil court (this is not a small claims case}to get an
order to fix the fence. You'll probably need a lawyer to do this.

But far simpler than all of this is to simply slice off the part that is in
my yard. Very simple to do.

perhaps. will parts of the fence fail because you sliced off 1.5" of a
3.5" post, and will you have to pay to make your neighbor "whole"?

In article ,
Doug Miller wrote:

Don Wiss wrote in
:

The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

One and a half **INCHES** ? Really? You're making a fuss about one and a half
**INCHES** ?

They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
right to slice the posts and top right at the line?

You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing
anything at
all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.

at this point since he pointed out the "error" to the neighbor and the
neighbor acknowledged the error, it's the neighbors problem

In article ,
Don Wiss wrote:

The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.
They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is
attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for
doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back
where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.

I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also
have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

in this litigious age, I would ask your insurance agent if there are any
legal ramifications to this encroachment. ie, someone hurts themselves
on the neighbors fence, but it's in your yard, who is responsible?

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 10:56:44 -0400, Don Wiss
wrote:

The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.
They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is
attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for
doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back
where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.

I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also
have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

I think you would be on shaky legal grounds. From what you said you
knew when it was being built that it was on your property yet you let
them build it there. A court could rule that you effectively gave
them an easement by doing nothing to stop it when you could have. Not
knowing how the court might rule I'd not be cutting up someone's
fence. Why can't you just line your extension up with their fence? Is
it a concern that part will be on their property? If so, you and your
neighbor can just give each other a written easement for the others
fence. I don't recall the specifics but I'm pretty sure I've seen
something in the legal documents when I bought my house and it was
about how the fence was built straddling the property lines of
something or other about it to cover this issue.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 11:59:05 -0700, "Malcom \"Mal\" Reynolds"
wrote:

In article ,
Doug Miller wrote:

Don Wiss wrote in
:

The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

One and a half **INCHES** ? Really? You're making a fuss about one and a half
**INCHES** ?

They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
right to slice the posts and top right at the line?

You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing
anything at
all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.

at this point since he pointed out the "error" to the neighbor and the
neighbor acknowledged the error, it's the neighbors problem

I see it as sort of teh opposite. He knew of the problem and failed
to take any action, not even a simple handwritten note telling the
neighbor or contractor "Hey, your about to build in my property -
DON'T!". So I think it's Don's problem now. His lack of action when
he had the opportunity implied acceptance. Sort of like the supposed
rule of traffic accidents, the person who had the last real chance to
avoid the accident may be found liable even if it was the other guy
violating the traffic law.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 09:08:57 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, June 24, 2013 10:56:44 AM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed

them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have

the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they

not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an

issue.



All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the

right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is

attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for

doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back

where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.



I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also

have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?



Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Well for one thing, I don't believe that your neighbor is allowed to install the fence with the bad side facing your property. Unless you've got some strange fence ordinances where you live, the standard rules call for the good side to face the neighbors.


I've never heard of that "ordinance" . If I'm building a fence I'm
certainly not going to put the good side for my neighbor to enjoy
while I look at the bad side. But I'm out in the west. Knowing how
the eastern states tend to be Nanny states I would not be at all
surprised if such a silly ordinance existed back east.

If there is such a law then shouldn't there be a law that requires you
to build your house in a style and color that satisfy's your neighbors
taste? After all, they have to look at your house too. Should they
get to approve your shingles? If you park your cars near the property
line should you be required to park the best looking car on the side
closest to their property?


Seems to me that while they are "turning the fence around" they should reposition it to be totally on their property. It could cause serious issues later on if you or they decide to sell.

Second, are you sure that your local ordinances don't require a set back for fences? My town allows the fence to be right on the property line, but many municipalities don't.

Do you and your neighbor not get along? It seems wierd that you pointed pointed out the property line and they still encroached upon your property, apparently without any further discussion. How did the property line discussion go when you brought it up?

"Don Wiss" wrote in message
...
The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.
They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
issue.

Is this fence a one sided fence with posts on one side and finished surface
on the other? In many regions one is required to place the posts on the
owners property and have the finished side facing the neighbor's side on the
property line. If a dispute is involved the person with the posts is deemed
the owner. Two sided fences where both sides are finished are often built
straddling on the property line and the costs shared by both property
owners. If one builds a fence at his own cost it is normally built on their
own land, that way they have full control over it. My fences are built about
2" inside my property line so I own them fully.

You may want to contact your local authorities as fencing is a constant
source of disputes that they have to police, they will provide the rules and
regulations that cover fencing in your area. You may find that you own the
fence your neighbor built, but get a ruling first.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:32:55 -0400, Don Wiss
wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:24:14 -0400, "dadiOH" wrote:

Both surveys show the line in the same place, right?

Correct.

And despite that, they
encroached on your property, right? Question: why did you not stop them?

I stopped them when they tried to put it 2 3/4" over. I showed them where
the line is. I assumed that they then did it right. Only now have I
discovered that they didn't. And the discovery was made when my fence guy
put in the side fence and it didn't line up with this fence. So we measured
to see what was going on.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).


That would slightly change my prior response since you did raise the
issue with them. That said, I think you would still lose if this goes
to court. There is only the most trivial of harm to you from what's
happened and it seems like the issue with your fence could have been
easily fixed at the time it was built had the contractor cared how it
was going to line up - apparently he didn't or he would have spotted
it before putting up your fence. In this kind of civil dispute
there's a good chance the court is not going to focus on
technicalities of the law, otherwise they would order a fence moved
even if encroached even a sixteenth of an inch over the property line.
The court is more likely to look at what an equitably/fair solution
would be after hearing from all parties. If I were the judge knowing
what I know at this point I'd not be likely to order the fence moved.
But another person as judge, god only knows what someone else might
decide. I'm having a hard time picturing how/why your fence was not
able to line up with this one.

On Monday, June 24, 2013 12:30:18 PM UTC-7, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:32:55 -0400, Don Wiss

wrote:



On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:24:14 -0400, "dadiOH" wrote:



Both surveys show the line in the same place, right?



Correct.



And despite that, they

encroached on your property, right? Question: why did you not stop them?



I stopped them when they tried to put it 2 3/4" over. I showed them where

the line is. I assumed that they then did it right. Only now have I

discovered that they didn't. And the discovery was made when my fence guy

put in the side fence and it didn't line up with this fence. So we measured

to see what was going on.



Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).





That would slightly change my prior response since you did raise the

issue with them. That said, I think you would still lose if this goes

to court. There is only the most trivial of harm to you from what's

happened and it seems like the issue with your fence could have been

easily fixed at the time it was built had the contractor cared how it

was going to line up - apparently he didn't or he would have spotted

it before putting up your fence. In this kind of civil dispute

there's a good chance the court is not going to focus on

technicalities of the law, otherwise they would order a fence moved

even if encroached even a sixteenth of an inch over the property line.

The court is more likely to look at what an equitably/fair solution

would be after hearing from all parties. If I were the judge knowing

what I know at this point I'd not be likely to order the fence moved.

But another person as judge, god only knows what someone else might

decide. I'm having a hard time picturing how/why your fence was not

able to line up with this one.

Everybody is having a cow over inches.
It seems to me that the real issue is that the "good" side is facing the neighbor. How complicated would it be to have the fence re-finished such that both sides are "good". That was done without my asking many years ago; the contractor put up a double-sided fence.

Could you look into this, friendly-like, with the neighbor, and if absolutely necessary, put up a share of the cost?

None of this is to denigrate the usefulness of having a correct survey, copy in the bank.

HTH

HB

On 6/24/2013 11:08 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Monday, June 24, 2013 10:56:44 AM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my
property. [snip]


I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But
do I also

have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?



Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Well for one thing, I don't believe that your neighbor is allowed to
install the fence with the bad side facing your property. Unless
you've got some strange fence ordinances where you live, the standard
rules call for the good side to face the neighbors.

Seems to me that while they are "turning the fence around" they
should reposition it to be totally on their property. It could cause
serious issues later on if you or they decide to sell.

Second, are you sure that your local ordinances don't require a set
back for fences? My town allows the fence to be right on the property
line, but many municipalities don't.

Do you and your neighbor not get along? It seems wierd that you
pointed pointed out the property line and they still encroached upon
your property, apparently without any further discussion. How did the
property line discussion go when you brought it up?


+1

Methinks that you can turn this into a very expensive battle for your
neighbor and it won't cost you much as the building/zoning department
will take the lead on it. I'm also guessing he did this without a
permit - said permitting inspection would have prevented this in the
first place.

Maybe the best thing to do is sit down with him before the situation
deteriorates and talk this over and let him know - in a polite way what
could happen if the issues aren't resolved between the two of you in
some fashion.

Suggest that you also consider that while you most likely can win this
"battle," you could also precipitate a long running war.

As to the property encroachment... that is a sticky wicket - depending
upon your state, allowing that fence to remain in place for a certain
length of time with or without permission or even your knowledge can
result in the neighbor owning that tiny strip of land by what is known
as "adverse possession."

You may not care but the person who buys your property in ten or twenty
years may and/or use that loss to beat you down on the price of your
property.

"Ashton Crusher" wrote in message
...


I've never heard of that "ordinance" . If I'm building a fence I'm
certainly not going to put the good side for my neighbor to enjoy
while I look at the bad side. But I'm out in the west. Knowing how
the eastern states tend to be Nanny states I would not be at all
surprised if such a silly ordinance existed back east.

If there is such a law then shouldn't there be a law that requires you
to build your house in a style and color that satisfy's your neighbors
taste? After all, they have to look at your house too. Should they
get to approve your shingles? If you park your cars near the property
line should you be required to park the best looking car on the side
closest to their property?


Some people want the 'good' side facing out so their house will look beter
from the road.
There are all kinds of housing rules and regulations in some areas.
Historic districs can tell you what color to paint your house and even which
bushes to plant. That is why I have asked bout that in any area that I have
bought a house. The only rules where I buy a house apply to the whole
county.

On 6/24/2013 12:19 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 09:08:57 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, June 24, 2013 10:56:44 AM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed

them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have

the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they

not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an

issue.



All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the

right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is

attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for

doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back

where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.



I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also

have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?



Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Well for one thing, I don't believe that your neighbor is allowed to install the fence with the bad side facing your property. Unless you've got some strange fence ordinances where you live, the standard rules call for the good side to face the neighbors.


I've never heard of that "ordinance" . If I'm building a fence I'm
certainly not going to put the good side for my neighbor to enjoy
while I look at the bad side. But I'm out in the west. Knowing how
the eastern states tend to be Nanny states I would not be at all
surprised if such a silly ordinance existed back east.

If there is such a law then shouldn't there be a law that requires you
to build your house in a style and color that satisfy's your neighbors
taste? After all, they have to look at your house too. Should they
get to approve your shingles? If you park your cars near the property
line should you be required to park the best looking car on the side
closest to their property?

isn't that called an hoa?

On 6/24/2013 3:19 PM, Ashton Crusher wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 09:08:57 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Monday, June 24, 2013 10:56:44 AM UTC-4, Don Wiss wrote:
The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.
They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is
attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for
doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back
where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.

I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also
have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

Well for one thing, I don't believe that your neighbor is allowed to install
the fence with the bad side facing your property. Unless you've got some
strange fence ordinances where you live, the standard rules call for
the good side to face the neighbors.


I've never heard of that "ordinance" . If I'm building a fence I'm
certainly not going to put the good side for my neighbor to enjoy
while I look at the bad side. But I'm out in the west. Knowing how
the eastern states tend to be Nanny states I would not be at all
surprised if such a silly ordinance existed back east.

I guess this is one of those cases of "just because you never heard of
it doesn't mean it doesn't exist."

I quote directly from my town's Town Code document:

(5) The most finished side of a fence must face the adjoining property.


If there is such a law then shouldn't there be a law that requires you
to build your house in a style and color that satisfy's your neighbors
taste? After all, they have to look at your house too. Should they
get to approve your shingles? If you park your cars near the property
line should you be required to park the best looking car on the side
closest to their property?

No, no and no.

....Snip...

In article ,
Don Wiss wrote:

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 13:24:14 -0400, "dadiOH" wrote:

Both surveys show the line in the same place, right?

Correct.

And despite that, they
encroached on your property, right? Question: why did you not stop them?

I stopped them when they tried to put it 2 3/4" over. I showed them where
the line is. I assumed that they then did it right. Only now have I
discovered that they didn't. And the discovery was made when my fence guy
put in the side fence and it didn't line up with this fence. So we measured
to see what was going on.

So what happens if your fence guy just lines things up with this fence?
Do you lose a lot of your yard? Do you encroach on a third neighbors
yard?
--
America is at that awkward stage. It's too late
to work within the system, but too early to shoot
the *******s."-- Claire Wolfe

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:14:26 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:

I see it as sort of teh opposite. He knew of the problem and failed
to take any action, not even a simple handwritten note telling the
neighbor or contractor "Hey, your about to build in my property -
DON'T!". So I think it's Don's problem now. His lack of action when
he had the opportunity implied acceptance.

I notified the architect last week, as soon as I knew about the problem.
The architect designed the fence. No response. We are talking a couple
months since the fence went up. No way does that imply acceptance. I have
now notified the contractor. No response. I really doubt the owner has any
idea that the fence is partly on my property. All was handled by the
architect and contractor.

Remember they started to put it 2 3/4" on my property. I stopped them and
told them to fix it. My assuming they would do as I ask does not imply
acceptance.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On 6/24/2013 8:56 AM, Don Wiss wrote:
The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.
They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence back is
attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability. The reason for
doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding a fence to the back
where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.

I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do I also
have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

If a neighbor builds a fence 2 feet onto my property and uses the land
for a specified time I can loose it through "adverse possession".
(Probably not relevant for you.)

--------------------------
I used to believe in surveyors. One of the reasons I lost my faith is a
survey of a small warehouse where both of the long dimensions were about
6' off to the west. One of the lot lines went through a loading dock.

-------------------------
I think very accurate surveys can be done by placing a 'device' at a
know location, like a USGS survey point, and using GPS. The 'device'
broadcasts error signals between the GPS location and the actual
location. But then is the base survey as accurate?

Don Wiss wrote:
The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my
property. They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same
surveyor. I showed them where the line was. But they went ahead and
did this in order to have the entire top fit behind a phone pole that
is on their property. Had they not faced the good side towards
themselves, it would not have been an issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have
the right to slice the posts and top right at the line? The fence
back is attached to the fence sides, which would give it stability.
The reason for doing this is the properties are staggered. I'm adding
a fence to the back where this fence isn't, and it won't line up.

I know I have the right to cut off tree limbs that hang over. But do
I also have the right to cut back a fence that is hanging over?

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

I didn't read all of the rest of the posts since this is a long thread. So,
maybe someone else already expressed this, but..., the building codes in
your area usually specify where a fence can go etc. It usually includes
something baout which way the "good" side of the fence must face (usually on
the outside. facing you). And, it usually specifies which side of the line
the fence should go on and whether the fence can or cannot be mechanically
attached to another existing fence.

I tried looking at the onien eCodes but New York and Brooklyn Borough don't
seem to be published online:
http://www.generalcode.com/ecode360/NY .



Good luck.

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, DerbyDad03 wrote:

Do you and your neighbor not get along?

I have only said hello over the fence before they moved in. Do realize I
live is a rowhouse neighborhood. He is on another block. The blocks being
parallel we would never meet on the street. His Japanese wife is really
into privacy. She won't go out into the backyard (except to replace the
absorbent sheet at the bottom of the doggy chalet). She has installed
blackout shades on every window.

It seems wierd that you pointed
pointed out the property line and they still encroached upon your
property, apparently without any further discussion. How did the property
line discussion go when you brought it up?

I brought it up with the workmen. They did not disagree. But the reason
they were first trying to put is 2 3/4" over is to get all of the wood on
my side of the telephone pole. The reason they didn't put it fully on their
property, is they wanted to get all of the heading piece on my side of the
pole.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 11:02:34 -0700, wrote:

On 6/24/2013 9:58 AM, Don Wiss wrote:
But far simpler than all of this is to simply slice off the part that is in
my yard. Very simple to do.

perhaps. will parts of the fence fail because you sliced off 1.5" of a
3.5" post, and will you have to pay to make your neighbor "whole"?

Unlikely. The back wall is fully integrated into the side fence. The fence
would still have two 4x4s that are behind my next door neighbor's property.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 12:09:13 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:

I think you would be on shaky legal grounds. From what you said you
knew when it was being built that it was on your property yet you let
them build it there.

NO. I stopped them from putting it 2 3/4" over and told them to not put any
of it on my property. I showed them where the line is.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013, EXT wrote:

Is this fence a one sided fence with posts on one side and finished surface
on the other?

Correct. The posts are on my side. His side is totally blank.

Don. www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On 06/24/2013 12:19 PM, EXT wrote:


You may want to contact your local authorities as fencing is a constant
source of disputes that they have to police, they will provide the rules
and regulations that cover fencing in your area. You may find that you
own the fence your neighbor built, but get a ruling first.

This is the only logical answer in this entire thread, given the wide
variety of local ordinances. It is literally their job to enforce
property line issues, and once informed of a situation, the onus is
removed from OP entirely (other than the possibility of dealing with a
****y neighbor).

Jon

On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 15:19:48 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote:

Don Wiss wrote in
:

The back yard neighbor has put up a fence that is 1 1/2" on my property.

One and a half **INCHES** ? Really? You're making a fuss about one and a half
**INCHES** ?

They have a survey. I also have a survey from the same surveyor. I showed
them where the line was. But they went ahead and did this in order to have
the entire top fit behind a phone pole that is on their property. Had they
not faced the good side towards themselves, it would not have been an
issue.

All that is on my property are the 4x4 posts and the top. Do I have the
right to slice the posts and top right at the line?

You'd better be damn sure that the survey is dead-nuts accurate, before doing anything at
all. And your next step after that should be to talk to your neighbor.


Sounds to me like an ass got a free fence - but by rights the fence
should be 6 inches inside the property line according to MOST zoning -
which requires 2 fences 1 foot apart to separate properties UNLESS
there is an agreement to share the fence. What the OP SHOULD do is
finish his side of the fence to his satisfaction and shut up. He
didn't have to pay gor holes and posts.