I've got an el-cheapo IP camera that is taking on moisture in heavy
rains.

The body is two cylinders joined on an o-ring set into a channel.

Before I got nuts with the silicone seal, is there something more
disassembly-friendly that I can smear on the o-ring to enhance the
resistance to water penetration?

My kneejerk is Vaseline - but, with my luck, that would attack the
o-ring.
--
Pete Cresswell

On May 25, 8:43*am, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote:
I've got an el-cheapo IP camera that is taking on moisture in heavy
rains.

The body is two cylinders joined on an o-ring set into a channel.

Before I got nuts with the silicone seal, is there something more
disassembly-friendly that I can smear on the o-ring to enhance the
resistance to water penetration?

My kneejerk is Vaseline - but, with my luck, that would attack the
o-ring.
--
Pete Cresswell

Silicone *lube* is what is typically used on O rings for PVC unions
and such.

"(PeteCresswell)" wrote:

I've got an el-cheapo IP camera that is taking on moisture in heavy
rains.

The body is two cylinders joined on an o-ring set into a channel.

Before I got nuts with the silicone seal, is there something more
disassembly-friendly that I can smear on the o-ring to enhance the
resistance to water penetration?

My kneejerk is Vaseline - but, with my luck, that would attack the
o-ring.
--
Pete Cresswell

Silicone grease. You can get it at your local SCUBA shop since it's used
on O-rings in UW camera gear, lights, etc.

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got an el-cheapo IP camera that is taking on moisture in heavy
rains.

The body is two cylinders joined on an o-ring set into a channel.

Before I got nuts with the silicone seal, is there something more
disassembly-friendly that I can smear on the o-ring to enhance the
resistance to water penetration?

My kneejerk is Vaseline - but, with my luck, that would attack the
o-ring.

I've been using Vaseline on all my in-ground pool piping's O-rings for
years. It has never attacked the o-rings and I've never had to replace
any of them.
The pool was installed in 1986.

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

willshak wrote:
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got an el-cheapo IP camera that is taking on moisture in heavy
rains.

The body is two cylinders joined on an o-ring set into a channel.

Before I got nuts with the silicone seal, is there something more
disassembly-friendly that I can smear on the o-ring to enhance the
resistance to water penetration?
My kneejerk is Vaseline - but, with my luck, that would attack the
o-ring.

I've been using Vaseline on all my in-ground pool piping's O-rings for
years. It has never attacked the o-rings and I've never had to replace
any of them.
The pool was installed in 1986.

PS. I take apart the pool filter every Autumn and store it inside for
the Winter, then reinstall it in the late Spring.



--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeros after @

On 05/25/2013 10:39 AM, willshak wrote:
willshak wrote:
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got an el-cheapo IP camera that is taking on moisture in heavy
rains.

The body is two cylinders joined on an o-ring set into a channel.

Before I got nuts with the silicone seal, is there something more
disassembly-friendly that I can smear on the o-ring to enhance the
resistance to water penetration? My kneejerk is Vaseline - but, with
my luck, that would attack the
o-ring.

I've been using Vaseline on all my in-ground pool piping's O-rings for
years. It has never attacked the o-rings and I've never had to replace
any of them.
The pool was installed in 1986.

PS. I take apart the pool filter every Autumn and store it inside for
the Winter, then reinstall it in the late Spring.




Some kind of grease is the answer, the issue is that vaseline might be
perfectly safe for some kinds of rubber and not others, the same may be
true of silicone grease (likely one or the other will work though.)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Pete:

Your best bet would be to get a set of dental picks so that you can take the old O-ring out, and then just put a new O-ring, or parhaps a HARDER O-ring in for a better seal.

Here, I wrote up a blurb about O-rings while I was posting on a board before I came here. Lemme find that write-up.

If you read and understand the following few paragraphs, you'll know more about O-rings than 99% of homeowners:

1. In North America, O-ring sizes are established by the AS568B Standard that assigns a three digit number "###" to every standard size O-ring manufactured in North America. The first of the three digits refers to the "cross sectional diameter" or "cord diameter" of the O-ring:

O-ring AS568B size vs. O-ring cord diameter:
0## O-rings will have a 1/16 inch cord diameter
1## O-rings will have a 3/32 inch cord diameter
2## O-rings will have a 1/8 inch cord diameter
3## O-rings will have a 3/16 inch cord diameter, and
4## O-rings will have a 1/4 inch cord diameter.

The second two digits in the O-ring size number refer to the inside diameter of the O-ring, with larger numbers indicating larger inside diameters. Officially, every increment of the second two digits (from 47 to 48, say) indicates a 1/4 inch increase in the ID of the O-ring.

If you can measure the ID and cord diameter of the O-ring reasonably accurately, (and every place that sells O-rings will have a digital caliper for doing that), here's a good reference by which to determine what the AS568B number size of the O-ring you have is:

O-Rings West


2. Metric O-rings are becoming more common in North America. With metric O-rings, the size is given by the letter M followed by the cord diameter followed by the Inside Diameter of the O-ring.

example: an M2.5X10 O-ring will have a cord diameter of 2.5 millimeters and an inside diameter of 10.0 millimeters. (obviously, the OD would have to be very close to 15mm)


3. O-rings are made of different kinds of rubber and of different rubber hardnesses.

For plumbing applications, the hardness of the rubber will ALWAYS be 70 durometer. O-rings also come in 60 and 90 durometer hardnesses. The higher the durometer number, the harder the rubber.

The rubber most resistant to water is a rubber called EPDM. If you buy a brand new faucet, it's likely the original O-rings on the spout and in the cartridges will be made of EPDM rubber. However, if you buy replacement O-rings from Master Plumber or Plumb Shop or at any hardware store to repair that faucet, the aftermarket O-rings will almost certainly be made of nitrile rubber, (which used to be called "Buna-N" rubber).

The reason for this is because nitrile rubber has excellent resistance to both water and hydrocarbon oils and greases, and so nitrile rubber O-rings are suitable for both plumbing applications and in any kind of machinery that is lubricated with hydrocarbon oils and greases. So, nitrile rubber O-rings can be used in a very wide variety of applications, and so nitrile O-rings are made in huge quantities. Their mass production lowers their cost of manufacture, and so they have a much lower selling price than O-rings made of any other kind of rubber, like EPDM or Viton or silicone rubber or whatever.

4. All O-rings have a "set" resistance. Rubber isn't a solid but an extremely viscous liquid. Under pressure, it will gradually change it's shape and permanently deform, so that all O-rings gradually turn into Oval-rings and less and less able to press against the bore they're installed in or the shaft they're installed on with the same pressure they did when they were new. A rubber's resistance to flowing under pressure is called it's "set" resistance, and both EPDM and nitrile rubber have excellent set resistance, but not all rubbers do.

If you've ever encountered a water valve that didn't have a packing, but uses an O-ring to prevent leakage along the stem instead, then you've probably come face-to-face with the problem with set resistance. Valves that use an O-ring to prevent leakage along the stem will eventually start to leak a little water when opened or closed, but the leakage will stop once the valve is left open for a minute or two. However, if the O-ring isn't replaced at that point, eventually when the valve is opened or closed, water won't stop leaking past the stem of the valve.

That leakage is NOT because the O-ring on the stem has worn out. In fact, on most water shut off valves, the valve is rarely ever operated so there isn't enough usage of the valve for it's O-ring to wear out. It's because the O-ring inside the valve has changed it's shape after 5 to 10 years of being under continuous pressure so that it's best described now as an Oval-ring or Square-ring instead of an O-ring, and it's new shape simply doesn't press as hard against the surfaces it's sealing against as it once did. If you have this problem with any of the water shut off valves in your house, the only fix is to replace the O-rings on the valve stem inside that valve.

So, if replacing the O-ring in such a valve will be a problem because of where the valve is located or many people will be inconvenienced by shutting off the water to replace the O-ring in that valve, then it's better to use a valve with a packing and packing nut instead of an O-ring.

Also, for every standard size O-ring, there will be a teflon "BACK UP RING" for use on each side of the O-ring to prevent the O-ring rubber from distorting too much under pneumatic or hydraulic pressu



Teflon back-up rings come in both solid and split versions:

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=h...ed=0CDoQrQMwBg

Solid teflon back-up rings make ideal gaskets for plumbing work. If you need a fiber washer for a small water valve, an equivalent size solid teflon back up ring is a perfect replacement.

Back-up rings also come in nitrile rubber, but nitrile rubber back-up rings will have one side concave to better fit the O-ring it's meant to support. Teflon back up rings will always have flat sides, and therefore make for better gaskets and fiber washers than nitrile back-up rings.

No camera manufacturer is going to go to the expense of having custom O-rings made just as a part for their camera. Almost certainly you'll be able to buy the O-ring you need from any of the places listed under Pneumatics or Hydraylics or even "Seals" in your yellow pages phone book.

Any place that repairs pneumatic or hydraulic cylinders or equipment will also know who sells O-rings in your area.

On 5/25/2013 8:43 AM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
I've got an el-cheapo IP camera that is taking on moisture in heavy
rains.

The body is two cylinders joined on an o-ring set into a channel.

Before I got nuts with the silicone seal, is there something more
disassembly-friendly that I can smear on the o-ring to enhance the
resistance to water penetration?

My kneejerk is Vaseline - but, with my luck, that would attack the
o-ring.


The classic and well proven thing to use for such applications is
silicone grease. It is inorganic (obviously) and won't attack rubber.

On May 25, 5:43*am, "(PeteCresswell)" wrote:
I've got an el-cheapo IP camera that is taking on moisture in heavy
rains.

The body is two cylinders joined on an o-ring set into a channel.

Before I got nuts with the silicone seal, is there something more
disassembly-friendly that I can smear on the o-ring to enhance the
resistance to water penetration?

My kneejerk is Vaseline - but, with my luck, that would attack the
o-ring.
--
Pete Cresswell

PC-

Most of the comments thus far have helpful.

I would suggest avoiding the use of vaseline & stick with the silicone
lubes, valve stem lube, etc (compatible with rubber O-rings).

Depending on the exact design of the camera & O-ring sealing
means.... moisture could be getting in through a different route.
Another thing to consider...sometimes over tightening can reduce
sealing effectiveness.

cheers
Bob

Per nestork:
Your best bet would be to get a set of dental picks so that you can take
the old O-ring out, and then just put a new O-ring, or one size larger
O-ring in for a better seal.

In the interest of brevity, I lied a little about the o-ring. It's a
custom shape to accommodate a few screw holes.

I think I'm going to go the silicone grease route. If that fails, I'll
just remove the o-ring, set the joint in marine silicone sealer, and
hope I don't need to disassemble it too often.
--
Pete Cresswell

Can you use a plumbing sealer like teflon tape there? Plumber's putty? Plumber's putty that isn't too too old is easy to remove with a Q-tip dipped in mineral spirits.

On Sat, 25 May 2013 08:43:12 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

I've got an el-cheapo IP camera that is taking on moisture in heavy
rains.

The body is two cylinders joined on an o-ring set into a channel.

Before I got nuts with the silicone seal, is there something more
disassembly-friendly that I can smear on the o-ring to enhance the
resistance to water penetration?

My kneejerk is Vaseline - but, with my luck, that would attack the
o-ring.
silicone grease - won't attack the rubber, won't glue it together,
and seals against moisture intrusion. Can't remermber the brand I use
- but it is a food-grade grease used in food production lines.

On Sat, 25 May 2013 17:20:03 +0200, nestork
wrote:


Pete:

Your best bet would be to get a set of dental picks so that you can take
the old O-ring out, and then just put a new O-ring, or one size larger
O-ring in for a better seal.

Here, I wrote up a blurb about O-rings while I was posting on a board
before I came here. Lemme find that write-up.
The "o-ring" on an underwater camera case is not a round o-ring you
can readilly get a replacement for - it is generally a pretty long
o-ring formed to fit the perimeter of the case.. And no dental pick
required to remove it.

On Sat, 25 May 2013 13:24:41 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per nestork:
Your best bet would be to get a set of dental picks so that you can take
the old O-ring out, and then just put a new O-ring, or one size larger
O-ring in for a better seal.

In the interest of brevity, I lied a little about the o-ring. It's a
custom shape to accommodate a few screw holes.

I think I'm going to go the silicone grease route. If that fails, I'll
just remove the o-ring, set the joint in marine silicone sealer, and
hope I don't need to disassemble it too often.
The silicone grease WILL do the job unless the o-ring is badly
deteriorated.

Well, the OP said he had an IP camera, and I didn't know what IP meant. A quick Google search said that it was a camera that could send and receive data over the internet, and was typically used for surveillance. He said he was getting water into it during heavy rains, so I just presumed it was mounted outside.

How do you figure it's an underwater camera?

On Sat, 25 May 2013 17:49:20 -0400, wrote:

silicone grease - won't attack the rubber, won't glue it together,
and seals against moisture intrusion. Can't remermber the brand I use
- but it is a food-grade grease used in food production lines.


"plumber's grease" (silicone - food grade)

Found at HD or other locations under different brand names.

On Sat, 25 May 2013 23:26:19 +0200, nestork
wrote:


(PeteCresswell);3068228 Wrote:
Per nestork:-
Your best bet would be to get a set of dental picks so that you can
take
the old O-ring out, and then just put a new O-ring, or one size larger
O-ring in for a better seal.-

In the interest of brevity, I lied a little about the o-ring. It's a
custom shape to accommodate a few screw holes.

I think I'm going to go the silicone grease route. If that fails,
I'll
just remove the o-ring, set the joint in marine silicone sealer, and
hope I don't need to disassemble it too often.
--
Pete Cresswell

Can you use a plumbing sealer like teflon tape there? Plumber's putty?
Plumber's putty that isn't too too old is easy to remove with a Q-tip
dipped in mineral spirits.
I wouldn't go close to my camera case with plumbers putty!!. You can
do what you like with yours. Silicone Grease has been the standard
solution for this problem with divers and photographers for almost 30
years (possibly even longer) - because it works and does not cause
other problems. It is very easy to purchase, use, and remove.

Per :
Silicone Grease has been the standard
solution for this problem with divers and photographers for almost 30
years (possibly even longer) - because it works and does not cause
other problems. It is very easy to purchase, use, and remove.

I'm going to Home Depot today.

Hit the local hardware store, and could not find anything explicitly
"Grease". A lot of "Silicone Compound" stuff - and I even have a tube
of that already..... but I'm guessing there is some significant diff
with "Compound" vs "Grease". In fact, the stuff I have looks more like
lubricating gel that grease.
--
Pete Cresswell

On 2013-05-25, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

My kneejerk is Vaseline - but, with my luck, that would attack the
o-ring.

Use a silicon grease made for sealing against liquids. Fountain pen
owners use it to seal ink reservoirs. You can buy it in small
amounts that won't break the bank:

http://www.isellpens.com/product_p/a-silgrease.htm

Inspect the oring with a minimum 5X magnifier for excess or negative
casting flash. Make sure the oring is does not have cuts or defects.
Inspect the oring grooves for scratches or dings. You can smooth 'em
out with some 400 grit wet/dry sandpaper. If all is well, grease 'er
up and reassemble.

nb

On Sat, 25 May 2013 08:43:12 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

I've got an el-cheapo IP camera that is taking on moisture in heavy
rains.

The body is two cylinders joined on an o-ring set into a channel.

Before I got nuts with the silicone seal, is there something more
disassembly-friendly that I can smear on the o-ring to enhance the
resistance to water penetration?

My kneejerk is Vaseline - but, with my luck, that would attack the
o-ring.

For most o-ring situations, the preferred lube is
"high-vacuum silicone grease". But it is expensive.
Plumber's silicone grease is a good substitute.

But before you goop things up, keep in mind that the elegant
o-ring is dependent on clean, smooth, scratch-free surfaces.
And the o-ring has to be pristine. Never use metal tools to
dig an o-ring out its home. A strong hand lens and strong
lighting are essential for inspecting o-rings and
o-ring-groove sealing surfaces. The slightest scratch
across the surface, or the slightest nick in the o-ring
itself can be un-fixable with lube. An eyelash can cause a
serious leak!

--
croy

On 27 May 2013 14:29:43 GMT, notbob
wrote:

On 2013-05-25, (PeteCresswell) wrote:

My kneejerk is Vaseline - but, with my luck, that would attack the
o-ring.

Use a silicon grease made for sealing against liquids. Fountain pen
owners use it to seal ink reservoirs. You can buy it in small
amounts that won't break the bank:

http://www.isellpens.com/product_p/a-silgrease.htm

Thanks for that link!

--
croy

On Mon, 27 May 2013 12:49:48 -0700, croy
wrote:

But before you goop things up, keep in mind that the elegant
o-ring is dependent on clean, smooth, scratch-free surfaces.
And the o-ring has to be pristine. Never use metal tools to
dig an o-ring out its home. A strong hand lens and strong
lighting are essential for inspecting o-rings and
o-ring-groove sealing surfaces. The slightest scratch
across the surface, or the slightest nick in the o-ring
itself can be un-fixable with lube. An eyelash can cause a
serious leak!

O-rings become deformed. In pools pumps, they may flatten on one side,
so not to seal. Then leak.

I and everyone I know uses metal dental picks to remove and re-install rubber O-rings. I have been using metal dental picks to do that for well over 20 years now and have not damaged an O-ring yet.

What do you suggest using instead?

On 2013-05-27, nestork wrote:

well over 20 years now and have not damaged an O-ring yet.

It's not the oring that might get dinged, it's the oring groove
surface becoming gouged. Plastic electronics adj tools shaped like a
flat blade screwdriver are much more practical and are easily
obtainable. This might not be so critical for something like a
waterproof seal, but for something like a high vacuum seal, it's
definitely critical.

nb

Apparantly you're correct, Notbob.

Parker is probably the biggest name in O-rings in North America, and the O-ring installation and extraction tool set they sell is made of brass. And, they specifically site the reason for using brass as being that it won't damage any sealing surfaces (because brass is softer than steel):



Some of the O-rings I've had to remove have been really stuck in their grooves, and I simply don't think a plastic tool would be able to get those O-rings out. But, I agree that a brass dental pick would both have the strength and be much less likely to scratch steel than a stainless steel dental pick.

On 5/25/2013 8:23 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 25 May 2013 13:24:41 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)"
wrote:

Per nestork:
Your best bet would be to get a set of dental picks so that you can take
the old O-ring out, and then just put a new O-ring, or one size larger
O-ring in for a better seal.

In the interest of brevity, I lied a little about the o-ring. It's a
custom shape to accommodate a few screw holes.

I think I'm going to go the silicone grease route. If that fails, I'll
just remove the o-ring, set the joint in marine silicone sealer, and
hope I don't need to disassemble it too often.
The silicone grease WILL do the job unless the o-ring is badly
deteriorated.


try a pool store.

On Mon, 27 May 2013 23:19:59 +0200, nestork
wrote:


croy;3069351 Wrote:

Never use metal tools to dig an o-ring out its home.


I and everyone I know uses metal dental picks to remove and re-install
rubber O-rings. I have been using metal dental picks to do that for
well over 20 years now and have not damaged an O-ring yet.

O-ring sealing surfaces are often rather soft materials,
such as mild-steel, brass, aluminum or plastic. A metal
tool can easily scratch such surfaces. I've seen skilled
workers successfully use a pick to remove an o-ring that is
not to be reused by deliberately piercing the o-ring itself,
and not touching the mating surfaces with the pick.

What do you suggest using instead?

Forced air usually works for face seals. For external shaft
seals that are large enough, squeezing the ring around the
shaft until a portion of it pooches up enough to get fingers
or a chop-stick under it. Internal cylindrical o-rings can
be a bugger, indeed--if compressed air won't do it, and you
don't have wooden or plastic tools for the job, you're in a
really bad situation!

I've seen some high-durometer o-rings (TFE, etc.) where I
don't know how the mfr. got them on there in the first place
(but maybe used heat and a sled), and I know of no way to
get them off without destroying them. But I'm no expert
(guess I should have stated that part first!).

--
croy

Vegetable oil