Calling SMS...Pool chemicals ... best place...Silicon Valley
 

In the past, SMS told me (rightly so), the best place for liquid chlorine
was HASA in Saratoga with the coupon was yourpoolguys.com in Saratoga.

I use about 100 pounds of the 3" trichlor tablets per year.

If SMS is out there ... does he know the secret place in the valley
(like he did for liquid chlorine) to get the 3" trichlor tabs?

So far I've called these obvious places in the valley:
- Costco ($80/40 pounds, unknown percentage available chlorine)
- Home Depot ($60/24 pounds, 95% available chlorine)
- Lowes ($60/24 pounds, 95% available chlorine)
- Leslies ($80/35 pounds, 78% available chlorine)
- Pool Guys ($128/50 pounds, unknown percentage available chlorine)

Assuming the Costco available percentage is reasonable, it seems
the way to go (at $2/pound); but was just wondering if SMS knew
the best place to buy about 100 pounds of 3 inch trichlor tablets.

Calling SMS...Pool chemicals ... best place...Silicon Valley
 

On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 22:14:14 +0000 Danny D. wrote:

In the past, SMS told me (rightly so), the best place for liquid chlorine
was HASA in Saratoga with the coupon was yourpoolguys.com in Saratoga.

BTW, I just doublechecked the liquid chlorine, where the pool guys that
SMS recommends are $18.40/4 gallons of HASA 12% liquid chlorine, while
the nearest competitor is $17/4 gallons; however, as SMS noted, with
the ongoing coupon of buy-1-get-1-free, the pool guys turn out to be
only $21.62 for 8 gallons, including the tax that you have to pay on
the value of the free chlorine - so it's clearly the best bet for
liquid chlorine.

Now I need to know what's the best place that SMS has found for
the 3" trichlor tablets!

Calling SMS...Pool chemicals ... best place...Silicon Valley
 

On 4/20/2013 4:07 PM, Danny D. wrote:
On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 22:14:14 +0000 Danny D. wrote:

In the past, SMS told me (rightly so), the best place for liquid chlorine
was HASA in Saratoga with the coupon was yourpoolguys.com in Saratoga.

BTW, I just doublechecked the liquid chlorine, where the pool guys that
SMS recommends are $18.40/4 gallons of HASA 12% liquid chlorine, while
the nearest competitor is $17/4 gallons; however, as SMS noted, with
the ongoing coupon of buy-1-get-1-free, the pool guys turn out to be
only $21.62 for 8 gallons, including the tax that you have to pay on
the value of the free chlorine - so it's clearly the best bet for
liquid chlorine.

You can only imagine the mark-up on liquid chlorine if they are able to
make sufficient margins at $2.50/gallon versus $4.25/gallon of the place
that's $17/4 gallons.

The other advantage of HASA is that it's delivered every couple of days
fresh from the manufacturing plant, so the 12% is probably really 12%.
The boxes of two gallons of 10% from the big box stores are likely less
than 10% because they sit around.

I just finished getting the pool cleaned up. Now I have to install my
two-speed pump.

Calling SMS...Pool chemicals ... best place...Silicon Valley
 

On Apr 25, 7:55*am, sms wrote:
On 4/20/2013 4:07 PM, Danny D. wrote:

On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 22:14:14 +0000 Danny D. wrote:

In the past, SMS told me (rightly so), the best place for liquid chlorine
was HASA in Saratoga with the coupon was yourpoolguys.com in Saratoga.

BTW, I just doublechecked the liquid chlorine, where the pool guys that
SMS recommends are $18.40/4 gallons of HASA 12% liquid chlorine, while
the nearest competitor is $17/4 gallons; however, as SMS noted, with
the ongoing coupon of buy-1-get-1-free, the pool guys turn out to be
only $21.62 for 8 gallons, including the tax that you have to pay on
the value of the free chlorine - so it's clearly the best bet for
liquid chlorine.

You can only imagine the mark-up on liquid chlorine if they are able to
make sufficient margins at $2.50/gallon versus $4.25/gallon of the place
that's $17/4 gallons.

The other advantage of HASA is that it's delivered every couple of days
fresh from the manufacturing plant, so the 12% is probably really 12%.
The boxes of two gallons of 10% from the big box stores are likely less
than 10% because they sit around.

I just finished getting the pool cleaned up. Now I have to install my
two-speed pump.

How are you going to wire up and control the two speed?
I might do that one day. I was thinking probably easiest is
to just add a SPDT switch in the timer box? Leave it on low
except when you need it on high to backwash, remove water, etc. I was
thinking since the pump is OK to just
swap out the motor.

Calling SMS...Pool chemicals ... best place...Silicon Valley
 

On 2013-04-25, sms wrote:

You can only imagine the mark-up on liquid chlorine if they are able to

Hah!! Have you priced kerosene, lately. Last time I checked, it was
$8 gal ....on sale!!

nb

Calling SMS...Pool chemicals ... best place...Silicon Valley
 

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 04:55:32 -0700 sms wrote:

You can only imagine the mark-up on liquid chlorine if they are able to
make sufficient margins at $2.50/gallon versus $4.25/gallon of the place
that's $17/4 gallons.

I've been going to those pool guys in Saratoga ever since you guys
here on Alt.Home.Repair clued me in about their web coupon which
essentially is a buy-one-get-the-other-for-tax deal:

http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12781984.jpg

Out the door, it's $21.62/8 gallons, or about $2.75 per gallon.

The cost-per-effective-chlorine (or free chlorine) calculation is:
$21.62/8 gal x 1 gal/9.7 pounds x 1/10.8% by wt available chlorine = $2.58/pound FC

Calling SMS...Pool chemicals ... best place...Silicon Valley
 

On Thu, 25 Apr 2013 04:55:32 -0700 sms wrote:

The other advantage of HASA is that it's delivered every couple of days
fresh from the manufacturing plant, so the 12% is probably really 12%.
The boxes of two gallons of 10% from the big box stores are likely less
than 10% because they sit around.

My system for getting "fresh" chlorine is currently these three steps:

1. I bought 2 cases of chlorine at the buy-1-get-1-free price
(you have to leave a deposit on each case though)
2. When the 1st case was used up, I went back & bought a 3rd case
(again, at the buy-1-get-1-free price)
3. Forevermore, when I use up two of the three cases, I get two more
(always at the buy-1-get-1-free price of $2.75/gallon in the end)

In summary, whenever I have two cases empty, I pop them into the trunk
along with a printed web coupon, and there's always a case back at home
for the pool.

In addition, I gave up buying bleach at the supermarket; I simply dilute
the HASA chlorine 50:50 with water for the wash; and I dilute that again
50:50 for the wife to use in her little toilet bowl squirt bottles.

Turns out chlorine lasts longer the more dilute it is (go figure), so,
her stuff, at roughly 3% and the washing machine stuff at about 6%
supposedly stays potent even longer than does the pool stuff
(which is at about 12% by volume, or 10.8% by weight).

Calling SMS...Pool chemicals ... best place...Silicon Valley
 

On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 22:14:14 +0000 Danny D. wrote:

Assuming the Costco available percentage is reasonable, it seems
the way to go (at $2/pound); but was just wondering if SMS knew
the best place to buy about 100 pounds of 3 inch trichlor tablets.

I bought the Costco trichlor tablets but found out it's 85% effective.
I also found out that we only have two effective percents for trichlor.
1. There's 90% available chlorine
2. And then there's 85% available chlorine

Price for working free chlorine should determine which you choose,
since there isn't really any other difference (other than some are
wrapped individually which I would find to be a pain).

- Costco & Lowes = 85% available chlorine
- Leslies & Home Depot = 90% available chlorine

So, my rough draft table is the following (unconfirmed yet):
- Costco $80/40 pounds * 100/84.65 pounds = $2.36/pound FC
- Leslies $80/35 pounds * 100/90.0 pounds = $2.54/pound FC
- Home Depot $60/24 pounds * 100/90.0 pounds = $2.78/pound FC
- Lowes $60/24 pounds * 100/84.95 pounds = $2.94/pound FC

Interestingly, we find the HASA liquid chlorine, even at the web
sale price of buy-1-get-1-for-just-tax in that same cost range:
$21.62/8gal x 1gal/9.7pounds x 1/10.8% by wt avail Cl = $2.58/pound FC

Of course, the solid trichlor increases the cyanuric acid in the
pool at about the rate of 1.73ppm/pound while the liquid chlorine pushes
up the pH necessitating a bit more acid ... so there are additional
considerations other than straight cost per free chlorine to consider.

Calling SMS...Pool chemicals ... best place...Silicon Valley
 

On Apr 26, 12:57*am, "Danny D." wrote:
On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 22:14:14 +0000 Danny D. wrote:

Assuming the Costco available percentage is reasonable, it seems
the way to go (at $2/pound); but was just wondering if SMS knew
the best place to buy about 100 pounds of 3 inch trichlor tablets.

I bought the Costco trichlor tablets but found out it's 85% effective.
I also found out that we only have two effective percents for trichlor.
1. There's 90% available chlorine
2. And then there's 85% available chlorine

Price for working free chlorine should determine which you choose,
since there isn't really any other difference (other than some are
wrapped individually which I would find to be a pain).

- Costco & Lowes = 85% available chlorine
- Leslies & Home Depot = 90% available chlorine

So, my rough draft table is the following (unconfirmed yet):
- Costco $80/40 pounds * 100/84.65 pounds = $2.36/pound FC
- Leslies $80/35 pounds * 100/90.0 pounds = $2.54/pound FC
- Home Depot $60/24 pounds * 100/90.0 pounds = $2.78/pound FC
- Lowes $60/24 pounds * 100/84.95 pounds = $2.94/pound FC

Interestingly, we find the HASA liquid chlorine, even at the web
sale price of buy-1-get-1-for-just-tax in that same cost range:
$21.62/8gal x 1gal/9.7pounds x 1/10.8% by wt avail Cl = $2.58/pound FC

You've confirmed what I figured out some time ago. A lot of
people use liquid chlorine because they think it's the cheapest
form. Kind of what you'd expect, right? It's just chlorine bleach,
not made into a slow release tablet, etc. But here in NJ I came
to the same conclusion. That Costco price is about the best you
can do for tablets. And here liquid chlorine 12% is about $18 for
5 gallons and you have to return the empty container. So, the
tablets are significantly less expensive than the liquid.




Of course, the solid trichlor increases the cyanuric acid in the
pool at about the rate of 1.73ppm/pound while the liquid chlorine pushes
up the pH necessitating a bit more acid ... so there are additional
considerations other than straight cost per free chlorine to consider.

Yes, that is a big difference and will drive the choice in some cases.
Where we partially drain pools each
year and where we have more rain, the potential build-up of CYA is
much less of a problem. I've never had it occur.

Calling SMS...Pool chemicals ... best place...Silicon Valley
 

On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 05:14:26 -0700 wrote:

- Costco $80/40 pounds * 100/84.65 pounds = $2.36/pound FC
- Leslies $80/35 pounds * 100/90.0 pounds = $2.54/pound FC
- Home Depot $60/24 pounds * 100/90.0 pounds = $2.78/pound FC
- Lowes $60/24 pounds * 100/84.95 pounds = $2.94/pound FC
- Liquid $21.62/8gal x 1gal/9.7 pounds x 100/10.8% by wt = $2.58/pound FC

people use liquid chlorine because they think it's the cheapest
form. Kind of what you'd expect, right? It's just chlorine bleach
here liquid chlorine 12% is about $18 for 5 gallons

At your NJ price, the cost for free chlorine balloons up to:
- Liquid $18/5gal x 1gal/9.7 pounds x 100/10.8% by wt = $3.44/pound FC

Likewise, at my best CA non-sale price, the cost mushrooms even further:
- Liquid $17/4gal x 1gal/9.7 pounds x 100/10.8% by wt = $4.06/pound FC

It is surprising that liquid chlorine isn't the best price overall,
as, logically, you've made a case that it 'should' be cheaper.

Calling SMS...Pool chemicals ... best place...Silicon Valley
 

On 4/25/2013 5:22 AM, wrote:

How are you going to wire up and control the two speed?
I might do that one day. I was thinking probably easiest is
to just add a SPDT switch in the timer box?

That's what I'm doing. I already added the extra wire and the switch.

I will rarely, if ever, run at high speed. The pool cleaner doesn't
connect to the filtration system so there is not much need for the
higher speed.

Our utility recently sent out a usage profile of electricity to each
customer. The pool pump is by far our largest user of electricity. The
climate here is pretty mild and we use the A/C only 5-10 days a year, in
fact most houses in our neighborhood don't even have A/C. It was here
when we bought the house but we would not have put it in.

Calling SMS...Pool chemicals ... best place...Silicon Valley
 

On 4/26/2013 5:14 AM, wrote:

You've confirmed what I figured out some time ago. A lot of
people use liquid chlorine because they think it's the cheapest
form. Kind of what you'd expect, right? It's just chlorine bleach,
not made into a slow release tablet, etc. But here in NJ I came
to the same conclusion. That Costco price is about the best you
can do for tablets. And here liquid chlorine 12% is about $18 for
5 gallons and you have to return the empty container. So, the
tablets are significantly less expensive than the liquid.

Actually I'd prefer to use tablets over liquid, either on-sale from
Costco or on-sale from Leslie's. The problem with the tablets is that
they have cyanuric acid along with chlorine. That's fine if your pool's
cyanuric acid level is low, but not fine if you're already at 50ppm of
cyanuric acid because a high level of cyanuric acid is very bad.

I lost count of the number of times I've overheard the clerk at Leslie's
explain to a customer that they have to drain and refill their pool
because the cyanuric acid level is way too high and it's preventing the
chlorine from working properly and there is no neutralizer they can add
to bring down the cyanuric acid level. But only once have I heard the
clerk explain the reason this happened--the continual use of tablets.

Once your stabilizer is at 50ppm you don't want to be adding more. What
I'd like to be able to buy is tablets for the automatic chlorinator
tablet holder that do not contain stabilizer. But apparently it's not
possible to make such a tablet.

http://www.poolplaza.com/pool-school/stabilizer_debate.shtml

The pool store I go to mainly caters to pool service companies. They get
very large deliveries of fresh chlorine and fresh acid in deposit
bottles. These are the chemicals that professionals use, they are smart
enough to avoid tablets.

This store also use Orenda CV-700
http://orendatech.com/products/cv-700/ in their pool maintenance
business and they have a ginormous 275 gallon container of it on a
pallet inside the store but they won't sell it to retail customers (I
tried!).

Another local pool store http://www.skybluepool.com/ sells Orenda
PR-10000 http://orendatech.com/products/pr-10000/ in bulk, you just
bring your own container. I bought a gallon of it for $125. That seems
expensive but it is extremely concentrated and it's by far the least
expensive phosphate treatment on the market. That gallon should last me
four or five years. Phosphates are a big issue in my area. The tap water
has high levels of phosphates and there are no screened in pools as in
places like Florida because insects are not a big problem. Hence we get
a lot of leaves and other organic material in the pool so phosphates can
quickly get out of control.

Calling SMS...Pool chemicals ... best place...Silicon Valley
 

On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 13:33:58 -0700 sms wrote:

Another local pool store http://www.skybluepool.com/ sells Orenda
PR-10000 http://orendatech.com/products/pr-10000/ in bulk, you just
bring your own container. I bought a gallon of it for $125.

Yeah, I spoke to Ryan and he said he and his dad sell a lot of
that stuff. That store is the hardest place to find though, tucked
away in that parking lot above Vasona. I found them by accident
one day, searching for spare pool motor parts before I found "Bob".

However, it's my understanding that a phosphate remover isn't
necessary [in most cases] mainly because chlorine is enough to
keep algae in check and secondarily, because phosphate removal
comes at its own price.

Calling SMS...Pool chemicals ... best place...Silicon Valley
 

On 4/28/2013 7:02 PM, Danny D. wrote:
On Sun, 28 Apr 2013 13:33:58 -0700 sms wrote:

Another local pool store http://www.skybluepool.com/ sells Orenda
PR-10000 http://orendatech.com/products/pr-10000/ in bulk, you just
bring your own container. I bought a gallon of it for $125.

Yeah, I spoke to Ryan and he said he and his dad sell a lot of
that stuff. That store is the hardest place to find though, tucked
away in that parking lot above Vasona. I found them by accident
one day, searching for spare pool motor parts before I found "Bob".

However, it's my understanding that a phosphate remover isn't
necessary [in most cases] mainly because chlorine is enough to
keep algae in check and secondarily, because phosphate removal
comes at its own price.

The theory is that if the phosphates are kept low then you can have
lower chlorine levels. When I first bought PR-10000 my phosphate levels
were off the charts, the test kit didn't go that high. One quart of
PR-10000 brought them down to zero and the algae problems went away. To
solve the problem with higher chlorine levels would have actually been
more expensive because it would require that I maintain a very high
chlorine level forever, or drain and refill. Phosphate reducers treat
the cause of the illness. Chlorine treats the symptoms of the illness.