On 3/6/2013 6:38 AM, HeyBub wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:
On 3/5/2013 7:20 PM, Mikepier wrote:
What about the outside disconnect? It is just simply a "pull-out"
type disconnect, no fuses, just solid copper buss bars. I don't see
any rating for it. How do I know it's rating? Or are all these type
of disconnects just a standard rating?


I personally don't like the pull out disconnects because they can
corrode from mishandling and pranksters can make off with the pull
out. I use the Square D dummy breaker in a rain proof box. It looks
like a standard Square D QO breaker but with no over current
protection and a real circuit breaker will actually snap-in in its
place. ^_^

As for pranksters, my disconnect has a a padlock, the key to which is kept
in the main circuit-breaker box (which also has a padlock).



Trust no one. ^_^

TDD

The Daring Dufas wrote:

As for pranksters, my disconnect has a a padlock, the key to which
is kept in the main circuit-breaker box (which also has a padlock).



Trust no one. ^_^


I trust YOU -- To give what you believe to be the straight skinney on this
newsgroup.

Who know, if we ever met in person, I might even loan you a tool...

On 3/7/2013 7:27 AM, HeyBub wrote:
The Daring Dufas wrote:

As for pranksters, my disconnect has a a padlock, the key to which
is kept in the main circuit-breaker box (which also has a padlock).



Trust no one. ^_^


I trust YOU -- To give what you believe to be the straight skinney on this
newsgroup.

Who know, if we ever met in person, I might even loan you a tool...



I can appreciate that. I remember a famous man saying something to the
effect, "Experience is a fool's best teacher." Believe me, I can admit
to being a fool on more than one occasion but I survived it and learned
from it. Years ago, I trained in martial arts and got knocked on my butt
numerous times but I learned from it to the point that my instructors
couldn't get through my coverup and I could block kicks and punches. Of
course now, a couple of five year old kids could take me. ^_^

TDD

Ok ,guys. Now something just came up . I know we are up to 51 posts
for this thread already, and I was not sure whether to continue this
one, or start a new one, but anyway:

My friend had an idea if he had gotten a generator one day, he can
utilize the A/C disconnect panel outside to backfeed into the main
panel. Of course he would shut off the main breaker and pull the A/C
disconnect when he did this.

I can put an outdoor twistlock outlet next to the A/C disconnect
panel, and put a short nipple between them an connect the wiring.

But I cannot do this with the existing 10 guage wire since it is the
old 10/2 stuff with a small ground on it. I would need to run an 8/3
with gnd ( 2 phases plus neutral).

I know this is not the right way to backfeed a panel, but regardless,
does it make sense now to run the 8/3 ?

I'd leave the AC wire alone, and wire a power inlet. You'd be wise to make
some kind of transfer switch to make it idiot resistant. During a high
stress power cut, it's easy enough to forget a step or two in the procedure.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Mikepier" wrote in message
...

I know this is not the right way to backfeed a panel, but regardless,
does it make sense now to run the 8/3 ?

On Mar 8, 8:51*am, Mikepier wrote:
Ok ,guys. Now something just came up . I know we are up to 51 posts
for this thread already, and I was not sure whether to continue this
one, or start a new one, but anyway:

My friend had *an idea if he had gotten a generator one day, he can
utilize the A/C disconnect panel outside to backfeed into the *main
panel. Of course he would shut off the main breaker and pull the A/C
disconnect when he did this.

I can put an outdoor twistlock outlet next to the A/C disconnect
panel, and put a short nipple between them an connect the wiring.

But I cannot do this with the existing 10 guage wire since it is the
old 10/2 stuff with a small ground on it. I would need to run an 8/3
with gnd ( *2 phases plus neutral).

I know this is not the right way to backfeed a panel, but regardless,
does it make sense now to run the 8/3 ?

If you know it's not the right way, then why are you
proposing to do it? Why take an AC circuit that is 100% legal
nd safe as it is and turn it into something to be used as a dangerous
code violation? If he wants a
generator connection, install an inlet outside and run
it to a proper interlock device installed on the main panel.
If the panel maker doesn't have one, then try:

http://www.interlockkit.com/

On 3/8/2013 8:51 AM, Mikepier wrote:
Ok ,guys. Now something just came up . I know we are up to 51 posts
for this thread already, and I was not sure whether to continue this
one, or start a new one, but anyway:

My friend had an idea if he had gotten a generator one day, he can
utilize the A/C disconnect panel outside to backfeed into the main
panel. Of course he would shut off the main breaker and pull the A/C
disconnect when he did this.





Hay bailing sounds great and of course he will never forget, be sick,
not there and someone else needs to do it or whatever.


What you described is simply hay bailing instead of using conventional
common methods.



I can put an outdoor twistlock outlet next to the A/C disconnect
panel, and put a short nipple between them an connect the wiring.

But I cannot do this with the existing 10 guage wire since it is the
old 10/2 stuff with a small ground on it. I would need to run an 8/3
with gnd ( 2 phases plus neutral).

I know this is not the right way to backfeed a panel, but regardless,
does it make sense now to run the 8/3 ?

On Mar 8, 9:09*am, "
wrote:
On Mar 8, 8:51*am, Mikepier wrote:





Ok ,guys. Now something just came up . I know we are up to 51 posts
for this thread already, and I was not sure whether to continue this
one, or start a new one, but anyway:

My friend had *an idea if he had gotten a generator one day, he can
utilize the A/C disconnect panel outside to backfeed into the *main
panel. Of course he would shut off the main breaker and pull the A/C
disconnect when he did this.

I can put an outdoor twistlock outlet next to the A/C disconnect
panel, and put a short nipple between them an connect the wiring.

But I cannot do this with the existing 10 guage wire since it is the
old 10/2 stuff with a small ground on it. I would need to run an 8/3
with gnd ( *2 phases plus neutral).

I know this is not the right way to backfeed a panel, but regardless,
does it make sense now to run the 8/3 ?

If you know it's not the right way, then why are you
proposing to do it? *Why take an AC circuit that is 100% legal
nd safe as it is and turn it into something to be used as a dangerous
code violation? *If he wants a
generator connection, install an inlet outside and run
it to a proper interlock device installed on the main panel.
If the panel maker doesn't have one, then try:

http://www.interlockkit.com/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That is an excellent invention. I did not even know those interlocks
existed. A little pricey at $150, but I'll definately consider it. The
only issue is finding space in the main panel for an extra double pole
breaker for the generator, but I can use some twins here and there on
lighting circuits to to free it up.

On 3/8/2013 8:30 AM, Mikepier wrote:
On Mar 8, 9:09 am, "
wrote:
On Mar 8, 8:51 am, Mikepier wrote:





Ok ,guys. Now something just came up . I know we are up to 51 posts
for this thread already, and I was not sure whether to continue this
one, or start a new one, but anyway:

My friend had an idea if he had gotten a generator one day, he can
utilize the A/C disconnect panel outside to backfeed into the main
panel. Of course he would shut off the main breaker and pull the A/C
disconnect when he did this.

I can put an outdoor twistlock outlet next to the A/C disconnect
panel, and put a short nipple between them an connect the wiring.

But I cannot do this with the existing 10 guage wire since it is the
old 10/2 stuff with a small ground on it. I would need to run an 8/3
with gnd ( 2 phases plus neutral).

I know this is not the right way to backfeed a panel, but regardless,
does it make sense now to run the 8/3 ?

If you know it's not the right way, then why are you
proposing to do it? Why take an AC circuit that is 100% legal
nd safe as it is and turn it into something to be used as a dangerous
code violation? If he wants a
generator connection, install an inlet outside and run
it to a proper interlock device installed on the main panel.
If the panel maker doesn't have one, then try:

http://www.interlockkit.com/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That is an excellent invention. I did not even know those interlocks
existed. A little pricey at $150, but I'll definately consider it. The
only issue is finding space in the main panel for an extra double pole
breaker for the generator, but I can use some twins here and there on
lighting circuits to to free it up.


The interlock kit trader4 showed you is the least expensive "safe" way
to do it but before that product was available I used a double throw
safety switch and sub panel or put it between the lighting panel if it
was separate from the a main panel with the heavy loads. Of course you
run a separate line outdoors to your portable genset and depending on
its capacity you will have to choose which loads to turn off/on as
needed. ^_^

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/1001517...27-_-100151733

http://tinyurl.com/a9fqckb

TDD

On Mar 8, 10:01*am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 3/8/2013 8:30 AM, Mikepier wrote:





On Mar 8, 9:09 am, "
wrote:
On Mar 8, 8:51 am, Mikepier wrote:

Ok ,guys. Now something just came up . I know we are up to 51 posts
for this thread already, and I was not sure whether to continue this
one, or start a new one, but anyway:

My friend had *an idea if he had gotten a generator one day, he can
utilize the A/C disconnect panel outside to backfeed into the *main
panel. Of course he would shut off the main breaker and pull the A/C
disconnect when he did this.

I can put an outdoor twistlock outlet next to the A/C disconnect
panel, and put a short nipple between them an connect the wiring.

But I cannot do this with the existing 10 guage wire since it is the
old 10/2 stuff with a small ground on it. I would need to run an 8/3
with gnd ( *2 phases plus neutral).

I know this is not the right way to backfeed a panel, but regardless,
does it make sense now to run the 8/3 ?

If you know it's not the right way, then why are you
proposing to do it? *Why take an AC circuit that is 100% legal
nd safe as it is and turn it into something to be used as a dangerous
code violation? *If he wants a
generator connection, install an inlet outside and run
it to a proper interlock device installed on the main panel.
If the panel maker doesn't have one, then try:

http://www.interlockkit.com/-Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That is an excellent invention. I did not even know those interlocks
existed. A little pricey at $150, but I'll definately consider it. The
only issue is finding space in the main panel for an extra double pole
breaker for the generator, but I can use some twins here and there on
lighting circuits to to free it up.

The interlock kit trader4 showed you is the least expensive "safe" way
to do it but before that product was available I used a double throw
safety switch and sub panel or put it between the lighting panel if it
was separate from the a main panel with the heavy loads. Of course you
run a separate line outdoors to your portable genset and depending on
its capacity you will have to choose which loads to turn off/on as
needed. ^_^

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/1001517...733&storeId=10....

http://tinyurl.com/a9fqckb

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So that double throw switch has to be put between the main panel and
subpanel, (where the subpanel would have the essential circuits in
them to run off generator) , right?

On 3/8/2013 9:31 AM, Mikepier wrote:
On Mar 8, 10:01 am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 3/8/2013 8:30 AM, Mikepier wrote:





On Mar 8, 9:09 am, "
wrote:
On Mar 8, 8:51 am, Mikepier wrote:

Ok ,guys. Now something just came up . I know we are up to 51 posts
for this thread already, and I was not sure whether to continue this
one, or start a new one, but anyway:

My friend had an idea if he had gotten a generator one day, he can
utilize the A/C disconnect panel outside to backfeed into the main
panel. Of course he would shut off the main breaker and pull the A/C
disconnect when he did this.

I can put an outdoor twistlock outlet next to the A/C disconnect
panel, and put a short nipple between them an connect the wiring.

But I cannot do this with the existing 10 guage wire since it is the
old 10/2 stuff with a small ground on it. I would need to run an 8/3
with gnd ( 2 phases plus neutral).

I know this is not the right way to backfeed a panel, but regardless,
does it make sense now to run the 8/3 ?

If you know it's not the right way, then why are you
proposing to do it? Why take an AC circuit that is 100% legal
nd safe as it is and turn it into something to be used as a dangerous
code violation? If he wants a
generator connection, install an inlet outside and run
it to a proper interlock device installed on the main panel.
If the panel maker doesn't have one, then try:

http://www.interlockkit.com/-Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That is an excellent invention. I did not even know those interlocks
existed. A little pricey at $150, but I'll definately consider it. The
only issue is finding space in the main panel for an extra double pole
breaker for the generator, but I can use some twins here and there on
lighting circuits to to free it up.

The interlock kit trader4 showed you is the least expensive "safe" way
to do it but before that product was available I used a double throw
safety switch and sub panel or put it between the lighting panel if it
was separate from the a main panel with the heavy loads. Of course you
run a separate line outdoors to your portable genset and depending on
its capacity you will have to choose which loads to turn off/on as
needed. ^_^

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/1001517...733&storeId=10...

http://tinyurl.com/a9fqckb

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So that double throw switch has to be put between the main panel and
subpanel, (where the subpanel would have the essential circuits in
them to run off generator) , right?


Exactly. Sometimes there is a separate lighting panel which will have
loads like wall outlets, furnace blower, kitchen, bathroom, etc with
the heavy loads in an outdoor breaker box below the power meter and a
large breaker feeding the indoor panel. Sometimes a separate panel with
the heavy loads could be indoors next to the lighting panel. It depends
on your setup but if there is only one main panel that is not the split
variety (another variation) you can get a sub-panel which will use the
same type breakers you have so you save money on breakers. I had my
local inspector tell me it was OK the use the old panel as a junction
box to splice your circuits for the sub-panel if the wires/cables were
too short to move over to the sub panel. Don't forget the knock out
blank inserts to fill in the openings for the removed breakers. ^_^

TDD

On Mar 8, 12:08*pm, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 3/8/2013 9:31 AM, Mikepier wrote:





On Mar 8, 10:01 am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 3/8/2013 8:30 AM, Mikepier wrote:

On Mar 8, 9:09 am, "
wrote:
On Mar 8, 8:51 am, Mikepier wrote:

Ok ,guys. Now something just came up . I know we are up to 51 posts
for this thread already, and I was not sure whether to continue this
one, or start a new one, but anyway:

My friend had *an idea if he had gotten a generator one day, he can
utilize the A/C disconnect panel outside to backfeed into the *main
panel. Of course he would shut off the main breaker and pull the A/C
disconnect when he did this.

I can put an outdoor twistlock outlet next to the A/C disconnect
panel, and put a short nipple between them an connect the wiring.

But I cannot do this with the existing 10 guage wire since it is the
old 10/2 stuff with a small ground on it. I would need to run an 8/3
with gnd ( *2 phases plus neutral).

I know this is not the right way to backfeed a panel, but regardless,
does it make sense now to run the 8/3 ?

If you know it's not the right way, then why are you
proposing to do it? *Why take an AC circuit that is 100% legal
nd safe as it is and turn it into something to be used as a dangerous
code violation? *If he wants a
generator connection, install an inlet outside and run
it to a proper interlock device installed on the main panel.
If the panel maker doesn't have one, then try:

http://www.interlockkit.com/-Hidequoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That is an excellent invention. I did not even know those interlocks
existed. A little pricey at $150, but I'll definately consider it. The
only issue is finding space in the main panel for an extra double pole
breaker for the generator, but I can use some twins here and there on
lighting circuits to to free it up.

The interlock kit trader4 showed you is the least expensive "safe" way
to do it but before that product was available I used a double throw
safety switch and sub panel or put it between the lighting panel if it
was separate from the a main panel with the heavy loads. Of course you
run a separate line outdoors to your portable genset and depending on
its capacity you will have to choose which loads to turn off/on as
needed. ^_^

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/1001517...733&storeId=10...

http://tinyurl.com/a9fqckb

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So that double throw switch has to be put between the main panel and
subpanel, (where the subpanel would have the essential circuits in
them to run off generator) , right?

Exactly. Sometimes there is a separate lighting panel which will have
loads like wall outlets, furnace blower, kitchen, bathroom, etc with
the heavy loads in an outdoor breaker box below the power meter and a
large breaker feeding the indoor panel. Sometimes a separate panel with
the heavy loads could be indoors next to the lighting panel. It depends
on your setup but if there is only one main panel that is not the split
variety (another variation) you can get a sub-panel which will use the
same type breakers you have so you save money on breakers. I had my
local inspector tell me it was OK the use the old panel as a junction
box to splice your circuits for the sub-panel if the wires/cables were
too short to move over to the sub panel. Don't forget the knock out
blank inserts to fill in the openings for the removed breakers. ^_^

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Lets's go one step further. By any chance do they make double throw
circuit breakerss? So if one wants to wire up just the essential
circuits ( heat, light, etc), there would be 2 terminals on the
individual breaker: one for normal power and one for generator. That
way you just flip the breaker and it will switch to the generator
side.without having to worry about shutting off the main.

On 3/8/2013 11:19 AM, Mikepier wrote:
On Mar 8, 12:08 pm, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 3/8/2013 9:31 AM, Mikepier wrote:





On Mar 8, 10:01 am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 3/8/2013 8:30 AM, Mikepier wrote:

On Mar 8, 9:09 am, "
wrote:
On Mar 8, 8:51 am, Mikepier wrote:

Ok ,guys. Now something just came up . I know we are up to 51 posts
for this thread already, and I was not sure whether to continue this
one, or start a new one, but anyway:

My friend had an idea if he had gotten a generator one day, he can
utilize the A/C disconnect panel outside to backfeed into the main
panel. Of course he would shut off the main breaker and pull the A/C
disconnect when he did this.

I can put an outdoor twistlock outlet next to the A/C disconnect
panel, and put a short nipple between them an connect the wiring.

But I cannot do this with the existing 10 guage wire since it is the
old 10/2 stuff with a small ground on it. I would need to run an 8/3
with gnd ( 2 phases plus neutral).

I know this is not the right way to backfeed a panel, but regardless,
does it make sense now to run the 8/3 ?

If you know it's not the right way, then why are you
proposing to do it? Why take an AC circuit that is 100% legal
nd safe as it is and turn it into something to be used as a dangerous
code violation? If he wants a
generator connection, install an inlet outside and run
it to a proper interlock device installed on the main panel.
If the panel maker doesn't have one, then try:

http://www.interlockkit.com/-Hidequoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That is an excellent invention. I did not even know those interlocks
existed. A little pricey at $150, but I'll definately consider it. The
only issue is finding space in the main panel for an extra double pole
breaker for the generator, but I can use some twins here and there on
lighting circuits to to free it up.

The interlock kit trader4 showed you is the least expensive "safe" way
to do it but before that product was available I used a double throw
safety switch and sub panel or put it between the lighting panel if it
was separate from the a main panel with the heavy loads. Of course you
run a separate line outdoors to your portable genset and depending on
its capacity you will have to choose which loads to turn off/on as
needed. ^_^

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/1001517...733&storeId=10...

http://tinyurl.com/a9fqckb

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So that double throw switch has to be put between the main panel and
subpanel, (where the subpanel would have the essential circuits in
them to run off generator) , right?

Exactly. Sometimes there is a separate lighting panel which will have
loads like wall outlets, furnace blower, kitchen, bathroom, etc with
the heavy loads in an outdoor breaker box below the power meter and a
large breaker feeding the indoor panel. Sometimes a separate panel with
the heavy loads could be indoors next to the lighting panel. It depends
on your setup but if there is only one main panel that is not the split
variety (another variation) you can get a sub-panel which will use the
same type breakers you have so you save money on breakers. I had my
local inspector tell me it was OK the use the old panel as a junction
box to splice your circuits for the sub-panel if the wires/cables were
too short to move over to the sub panel. Don't forget the knock out
blank inserts to fill in the openings for the removed breakers. ^_^

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Lets's go one step further. By any chance do they make double throw
circuit breakerss? So if one wants to wire up just the essential
circuits ( heat, light, etc), there would be 2 terminals on the
individual breaker: one for normal power and one for generator. That
way you just flip the breaker and it will switch to the generator
side.without having to worry about shutting off the main.


I'm sure someone manufactures a molded case high current switch like
that but I haven seen one and I don't know of one that would have built
in over-current protection. ^_^

TDD

On Mar 8, 12:19*pm, Mikepier wrote:
On Mar 8, 12:08*pm, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-





finger.net wrote:
On 3/8/2013 9:31 AM, Mikepier wrote:

On Mar 8, 10:01 am, The Daring Dufas the-daring-du...@stinky-
finger.net wrote:
On 3/8/2013 8:30 AM, Mikepier wrote:

On Mar 8, 9:09 am, "
wrote:
On Mar 8, 8:51 am, Mikepier wrote:

Ok ,guys. Now something just came up . I know we are up to 51 posts
for this thread already, and I was not sure whether to continue this
one, or start a new one, but anyway:

My friend had *an idea if he had gotten a generator one day, he can
utilize the A/C disconnect panel outside to backfeed into the *main
panel. Of course he would shut off the main breaker and pull the A/C
disconnect when he did this.

I can put an outdoor twistlock outlet next to the A/C disconnect
panel, and put a short nipple between them an connect the wiring.

But I cannot do this with the existing 10 guage wire since it is the
old 10/2 stuff with a small ground on it. I would need to run an 8/3
with gnd ( *2 phases plus neutral).

I know this is not the right way to backfeed a panel, but regardless,
does it make sense now to run the 8/3 ?

If you know it's not the right way, then why are you
proposing to do it? *Why take an AC circuit that is 100% legal
nd safe as it is and turn it into something to be used as a dangerous
code violation? *If he wants a
generator connection, install an inlet outside and run
it to a proper interlock device installed on the main panel.
If the panel maker doesn't have one, then try:

http://www.interlockkit.com/-Hidequotedtext -

- Show quoted text -

That is an excellent invention. I did not even know those interlocks
existed. A little pricey at $150, but I'll definately consider it. The
only issue is finding space in the main panel for an extra double pole
breaker for the generator, but I can use some twins here and there on
lighting circuits to to free it up.

The interlock kit trader4 showed you is the least expensive "safe" way
to do it but before that product was available I used a double throw
safety switch and sub panel or put it between the lighting panel if it
was separate from the a main panel with the heavy loads. Of course you
run a separate line outdoors to your portable genset and depending on
its capacity you will have to choose which loads to turn off/on as
needed. ^_^

http://www.homedepot.com/p/t/1001517...733&storeId=10...

http://tinyurl.com/a9fqckb

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So that double throw switch has to be put between the main panel and
subpanel, (where the subpanel would have the essential circuits in
them to run off generator) , right?

Exactly. Sometimes there is a separate lighting panel which will have
loads like wall outlets, furnace blower, kitchen, bathroom, etc with
the heavy loads in an outdoor breaker box below the power meter and a
large breaker feeding the indoor panel. Sometimes a separate panel with
the heavy loads could be indoors next to the lighting panel. It depends
on your setup but if there is only one main panel that is not the split
variety (another variation) you can get a sub-panel which will use the
same type breakers you have so you save money on breakers. I had my
local inspector tell me it was OK the use the old panel as a junction
box to splice your circuits for the sub-panel if the wires/cables were
too short to move over to the sub panel. Don't forget the knock out
blank inserts to fill in the openings for the removed breakers. ^_^

TDD- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Lets's go one step further. By any chance do they make double throw
circuit breakerss? So if one wants to wire up just the essential
circuits ( heat, light, etc), there would be 2 terminals on the
individual breaker: one for normal power and one for generator. That
way you just flip the breaker and it will switch to the generator
side.without having to worry about shutting off the main.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It would have to be not only a unique breaker, but
also a unique panel to accept said breaker. It doesn't exist
for some very good reasons. And if it did, what do you
think that special panel and those special breakers would
cost compared to the simple alternatives?

Mikepier wrote:

If you know it's not the right way, then why are you
proposing to do it? Why take an AC circuit that is 100% legal
nd safe as it is and turn it into something to be used as a dangerous
code violation? If he wants a
generator connection, install an inlet outside and run
it to a proper interlock device installed on the main panel.
If the panel maker doesn't have one, then try:

http://www.interlockkit.com/- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That is an excellent invention. I did not even know those interlocks
existed. A little pricey at $150, but I'll definately consider it. The
only issue is finding space in the main panel for an extra double pole
breaker for the generator, but I can use some twins here and there on
lighting circuits to to free it up.

Just an observation, but none of the devices offered on this website are UL
approved. They claim to meet "all NEC requirements for optional standby
systems (Article 702)," but that's easy to say.

On Mar 9, 9:19*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
Mikepier wrote:

If you know it's not the right way, then why are you
proposing to do it? Why take an AC circuit that is 100% legal
nd safe as it is and turn it into something to be used as a dangerous
code violation? If he wants a
generator connection, install an inlet outside and run
it to a proper interlock device installed on the main panel.
If the panel maker doesn't have one, then try:

http://www.interlockkit.com/-Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That is an excellent invention. I did not even know those interlocks
existed. A little pricey at $150, but I'll definately consider it. The
only issue is finding space in the main panel for an extra double pole
breaker for the generator, but I can use some twins here and there on
lighting circuits to to free it up.

Just an observation, but none of the devices offered on this website are UL
approved. They claim to meet "all NEC requirements for optional standby
systems (Article 702)," but that's easy to say.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They go a bit further than that. They have the test reports that show
that they have been tested for use as accessories with UL 67 listed
panelboards.
What exactly that means in regard to making them code compliant
when put on a panel, I don't know. This issue is why I recommended
going with an interlock from the actual panel manufacturer, if one is
available. That way you know there is no issue. From some
discussions
I've seen online it looks like people are using the Interlockit
product.
How many of those are actually inspected, do some inspectors have
issues with it, IDK. Given that it's just a piece of metal, has no
direct
involvement with the electricity, obviously does what it' intended to
do,
I'd have no problem using it from a safety standpoint. But it would be
a bitch to buy it, install it and have it rejected. I guess best
thing
would be to take a print out of the info, including their test report,
over
to the inspector and ask before buying. Especially if you're in an
area
that tends to be tougher.

On 3/9/2013 8:19 AM, HeyBub wrote:
Mikepier wrote:

If you know it's not the right way, then why are you
proposing to do it? Why take an AC circuit that is 100% legal
nd safe as it is and turn it into something to be used as a dangerous
code violation? If he wants a
generator connection, install an inlet outside and run
it to a proper interlock device installed on the main panel.
If the panel maker doesn't have one, then try:

http://www.interlockkit.com/


That is an excellent invention. I did not even know those interlocks
existed.

They usually show up when threads get into connecting generators to the
house panel. Last time was probably November.

A little pricey at $150, but I'll definately consider it. The
only issue is finding space in the main panel for an extra double pole
breaker for the generator, but I can use some twins here and there on
lighting circuits to to free it up.

You can add a subpanel and move some of the loads to it.

Panels will have a limitation on where you can install half-sized
breakers. It may be in all positions, no positions, or anywhere in
between. The label will tell you. Half-size/twin breakers (in general)
can only be installed where the label says they can.


Just an observation, but none of the devices offered on this website are UL
approved. They claim to meet "all NEC requirements for optional standby
systems (Article 702)," but that's easy to say.


http://www.interlockkit.com/warranty01.htm
"Tested for use with UL 67 Listed Panelboards
Ref. Wyle Laboratories Test Report T52431-01
Wyle is a Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory authorized by OSHA
for UL standard 67 and recognized by all 50 US States"

Depends on whether your AHJ recognizes Wylie. There is probably not a
clean way to get these interlocks listed for other manufacturer's
panelboards. But they are a mechanical device that does not have
electrical ratings - likely they are OK. Ask the AHJ.

Several manufacturers (including SquareD and Siemens) have a similar
mechanical interlock for their panels.

On 3/9/2013 5:09 PM, wrote:
On Sat, 9 Mar 2013 07:13:47 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Mar 9, 9:19 am, wrote:
Mikepier wrote:

Just an observation, but none of the devices offered on this website are UL
approved. They claim to meet "all NEC requirements for optional standby
systems (Article 702)," but that's easy to say.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

They go a bit further than that. They have the test reports that show
that they have been tested for use as accessories with UL 67 listed
panelboards.
What exactly that means in regard to making them code compliant
when put on a panel, I don't know. This issue is why I recommended
going with an interlock from the actual panel manufacturer, if one is
available. That way you know there is no issue. From some
discussions
I've seen online it looks like people are using the Interlockit
product.
How many of those are actually inspected, do some inspectors have
issues with it, IDK. Given that it's just a piece of metal, has no
direct
involvement with the electricity, obviously does what it' intended to
do,
I'd have no problem using it from a safety standpoint. But it would be
a bitch to buy it, install it and have it rejected. I guess best
thing
would be to take a print out of the info, including their test report,
over
to the inspector and ask before buying. Especially if you're in an
area
that tends to be tougher.


I have mixed emotions on the interlock deal. I have seen some shop
built ones that are better than the Square D model but it is still not
listed. Legally I would have to reject it or "own" it (article 90-4).
I might tend to owning it personally but that decision is really up
to my boss if I worked for a municipality,.


http://www.interlockkit.com/warranty01.htm
"Tested for use with UL 67 Listed Panelboards
Ref. Wyle Laboratories Test Report T52431-01
Wyle is a Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory authorized by OSHA
for UL standard 67 and recognized by all 50 US States."

report from Wyle Laboratories
http://www.interlockkit.com/MasterElectric5243101.pdf
"Representative samples of the product covered by this report have been
evaluated and found to be suitable for use with UL 67 listed panelboards
provided the Conditions of Acceptability are
met."
The "Conditions of Acceptability" are included - generally installation
by someone who is not an idiot.

I wouldn't bet UL standards envision testing devices made for other
electrical manufacturers products (other than "classified" breakers).

Would Wyle give you enough cover?
Any opinion of whether other inspectors are likely to accept it?

More generally, what is the acceptance of NRTLs (other than UL and the
former FM) for electrical approval?
(The OSHA process is OSHA has a list of standards - mostly UL for
electrical. And it has a list of NRTLs. NRTLs are individually qualified
for each standard they are allowed to approve for, for OSHA. I kinda
remember Los Angeles does the same thing.)

On 3/10/2013 10:49 AM, wrote:
On Sun, 10 Mar 2013 10:07:39 -0600,
wrote:

Wyle is a Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory authorized by OSHA
for UL standard 67 and recognized by all 50 US States."

uh ... not so much

Organizations Currently Recognized by OSHA as NRTLs

Canadian Standards Association (CSA)
(also known as CSA International)
Communication Certification Laboratory, Inc. (CCL)
(DBA Nemko-CCL, Inc.)
Curtis-Straus LLC (CSL)
FM Approvals LLC (FM)
(formerly Factory Mutual Research Corporation)
Intertek Testing Services NA, Inc. (ITSNA)
(formerly ETL Testing Laboratories, Inc.)
MET Laboratories, Inc. (MET)
NSF International (NSF)
QPS Evaluation Services Inc. (QPS)
SGS U.S. Testing Company, Inc. (SGSUS)
(formerly U.S. Testing Company, Inc./California Division)
Southwest Research Institute (SWRI)
TUV Rheinland PTL, LLC (TUVPTL)
TÃœV SÃœD America, Inc. (TUVAM)
TÃœV SÃœD Product Services GmbH (TUVPSG)
TUV Rheinland of North America, Inc. (TUV)
Underwriters Laboratories Inc. (UL)



The report from Wyle is dated November 2009. According to OSHA, Wyle was
a NRTL until August 2011 and one of the standards they could test for
was UL 67.

So is the report still valid?

If it was valid when issued in 2009 does that give you a cover?

On 3/3/2013 7:22 PM, Mikepier wrote:
I'm running new electric in a friends basement and so far uncovered a
lot of bad wiring jobs, buried splice boxes, you name it. So now I
noticed that the central A/C compressor is wired with 10 guage wire.
I'm pretty sure its suppose to be 8 guage. And also the existing 10
guage wire is hooked up to a 40 A breaker, which of course is not
right, its suppose to be a 30A breaker.
So since everything is wide open now, I was wondering should I run
new 8 guage wire to the A/C? The unit is a Lennox, I beleive a 3 ton
unit, and the plate says "Min circuit ampacity 24.4 amps" and it also
says " Max fuse or ckt bkr 40A".
Even if the unit has been running fine all these years, I'm wondering
what happens down the road if it needs to be replaced with a new unit
that needs more amperage. the existing 10 guage wire will not be
sufficient I'm thinking.


a new unit will require less amps.

10 ga on a 30 is all you need for what he has.


--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Sunday, March 3, 2013 at 7:22:54 PM UTC-6, Mikepier wrote:
I'm running new electric in a friends basement and so far uncovered a
lot of bad wiring jobs, buried splice boxes, you name it. So now I
noticed that the central A/C compressor is wired with 10 guage wire.
I'm pretty sure its suppose to be 8 guage. And also the existing 10
guage wire is hooked up to a 40 A breaker, which of course is not
right, its suppose to be a 30A breaker.
So since everything is wide open now, I was wondering should I run
new 8 guage wire to the A/C? The unit is a Lennox, I beleive a 3 ton
unit, and the plate says "Min circuit ampacity 24.4 amps" and it also
says " Max fuse or ckt bkr 40A".
Even if the unit has been running fine all these years, I'm wondering
what happens down the road if it needs to be replaced with a new unit
that needs more amperage. the existing 10 guage wire will not be
sufficient I'm thinking.

well you will just have to upgrade

On Tuesday, March 19, 2013 at 10:57:02 PM UTC-5, Steve Barker wrote:
On 3/3/2013 7:22 PM, Mikepier wrote:
I'm running new electric in a friends basement and so far uncovered a
lot of bad wiring jobs, buried splice boxes, you name it. So now I
noticed that the central A/C compressor is wired with 10 guage wire.
I'm pretty sure its suppose to be 8 guage. And also the existing 10
guage wire is hooked up to a 40 A breaker, which of course is not
right, its suppose to be a 30A breaker.
So since everything is wide open now, I was wondering should I run
new 8 guage wire to the A/C? The unit is a Lennox, I beleive a 3 ton
unit, and the plate says "Min circuit ampacity 24.4 amps" and it also
says " Max fuse or ckt bkr 40A".
Even if the unit has been running fine all these years, I'm wondering
what happens down the road if it needs to be replaced with a new unit
that needs more amperage. the existing 10 guage wire will not be
sufficient I'm thinking.


a new unit will require less amps.

10 ga on a 30 is all you need for what he has.


--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email

On Sunday, March 3, 2013 at 7:22:54 PM UTC-6, Mikepier wrote:
I'm running new electric in a friends basement and so far uncovered a
lot of bad wiring jobs, buried splice boxes, you name it. So now I
noticed that the central A/C compressor is wired with 10 guage wire.
I'm pretty sure its suppose to be 8 guage. And also the existing 10
guage wire is hooked up to a 40 A breaker, which of course is not
right, its suppose to be a 30A breaker.
So since everything is wide open now, I was wondering should I run
new 8 guage wire to the A/C? The unit is a Lennox, I beleive a 3 ton
unit, and the plate says "Min circuit ampacity 24.4 amps" and it also
says " Max fuse or ckt bkr 40A".
Even if the unit has been running fine all these years, I'm wondering
what happens down the road if it needs to be replaced with a new unit
that needs more amperage. the existing 10 guage wire will not be
sufficient I'm thinking.

On Sunday, March 3, 2013 at 7:22:54 PM UTC-6, Mikepier wrote:
I'm running new electric in a friends basement and so far uncovered a
lot of bad wiring jobs, buried splice boxes, you name it. So now I
noticed that the central A/C compressor is wired with 10 guage wire.
I'm pretty sure its suppose to be 8 guage. And also the existing 10
guage wire is hooked up to a 40 A breaker, which of course is not
right, its suppose to be a 30A breaker.
So since everything is wide open now, I was wondering should I run
new 8 guage wire to the A/C? The unit is a Lennox, I beleive a 3 ton
unit, and the plate says "Min circuit ampacity 24.4 amps" and it also
says " Max fuse or ckt bkr 40A".
Even if the unit has been running fine all these years, I'm wondering
what happens down the road if it needs to be replaced with a new unit
that needs more amperage. the existing 10 guage wire will not be
sufficient I'm thinking.

On Sunday, March 3, 2013 at 7:22:54 PM UTC-6, Mikepier wrote:
I'm running new electric in a friends basement and so far uncovered a
lot of bad wiring jobs, buried splice boxes, you name it. So now I
noticed that the central A/C compressor is wired with 10 guage wire.
I'm pretty sure its suppose to be 8 guage. And also the existing 10
guage wire is hooked up to a 40 A breaker, which of course is not
right, its suppose to be a 30A breaker.
So since everything is wide open now, I was wondering should I run
new 8 guage wire to the A/C? The unit is a Lennox, I beleive a 3 ton
unit, and the plate says "Min circuit ampacity 24.4 amps" and it also
says " Max fuse or ckt bkr 40A".
Even if the unit has been running fine all these years, I'm wondering
what happens down the road if it needs to be replaced with a new unit
that needs more amperage. the existing 10 guage wire will not be
sufficient I'm thinking.

On Fri, 27 May 2016 17:38:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, March 3, 2013 at 7:22:54 PM UTC-6, Mikepier wrote:
I'm running new electric in a friends basement and so far uncovered a
lot of bad wiring jobs, buried splice boxes, you name it. So now I
noticed that the central A/C compressor is wired with 10 guage wire.
I'm pretty sure its suppose to be 8 guage. And also the existing 10
guage wire is hooked up to a 40 A breaker, which of course is not
right, its suppose to be a 30A breaker.
So since everything is wide open now, I was wondering should I run
new 8 guage wire to the A/C? The unit is a Lennox, I beleive a 3 ton
unit, and the plate says "Min circuit ampacity 24.4 amps" and it also
says " Max fuse or ckt bkr 40A".
Even if the unit has been running fine all these years, I'm wondering
what happens down the road if it needs to be replaced with a new unit
that needs more amperage. the existing 10 guage wire will not be
sufficient I'm thinking.

well you will just have to upgrade

Wrong, 10ga is plenty. There are different rules for motor loads

On Friday, May 27, 2016 at 8:50:41 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Fri, 27 May 2016 17:38:19 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, March 3, 2013 at 7:22:54 PM UTC-6, Mikepier wrote:
I'm running new electric in a friends basement and so far uncovered a
lot of bad wiring jobs, buried splice boxes, you name it. So now I
noticed that the central A/C compressor is wired with 10 guage wire.
I'm pretty sure its suppose to be 8 guage. And also the existing 10
guage wire is hooked up to a 40 A breaker, which of course is not
right, its suppose to be a 30A breaker.
So since everything is wide open now, I was wondering should I run
new 8 guage wire to the A/C? The unit is a Lennox, I beleive a 3 ton
unit, and the plate says "Min circuit ampacity 24.4 amps" and it also
says " Max fuse or ckt bkr 40A".
Even if the unit has been running fine all these years, I'm wondering
what happens down the road if it needs to be replaced with a new unit
that needs more amperage. the existing 10 guage wire will not be
sufficient I'm thinking.

well you will just have to upgrade

Wrong, 10ga is plenty. There are different rules for motor loads

IDK why this old thread had to be re-opened, the full thread with all
the facts is here, but as you say, what's there is fine. The problem
is that some people can't understand that motor load circuit breakers
are sized differently and you can have a breaker that is larger than
would be allowed for a lighting or water heater circuit that used the
same size conductor.

lol so they come and arrest you for arguing with them? Where do you live? Afghanistan? China?

--
For full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...or-739437-.htm