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What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
In another thread, it was mentioned that CFLs and LEDs
last longer than incandescent bulbs. We all know incandescent bulbs fail due to the filaments being made so thin that they oxidize and burn up, over time. But, what causes CFL bulbs to fail? And, what causes LED bulbs to fail? |
What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
Joe Mastroianni wrote in :
In another thread, it was mentioned that CFLs and LEDs last longer than incandescent bulbs. We all know incandescent bulbs fail due to the filaments being made so thin that they oxidize and burn up, over time. But, what causes CFL bulbs to fail? And, what causes LED bulbs to fail? ****ty design, ****ty materials. And heat. |
What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
On Friday, January 25, 2013 7:24:18 AM UTC-8, Joe Mastroianni wrote:
In another thread, it was mentioned that CFLs and LEDs last longer than incandescent bulbs. We all know incandescent bulbs fail due to the filaments being made so thin that they oxidize and burn up, over time. But, what causes CFL bulbs to fail? And, what causes LED bulbs to fail? I remember thirty years ago, you wouldn’t even think about breaking a fluorescent lamp while replacing it. In fact you hardly ever had to replace them. Now they make the class thinner than an eggshell and if you’re not VERY careful it breaks before you even finish putting it on, and even if you manage to put it on, the glass doesn’t last long once it gets hot. Glass is mostly made of silica which is cheap, so it’s not that the Chinese are saving money by making it thinner and if it’s not to save money then the only reason they would have to do so would be so you keep having to replace them and buy more. |
What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
On 1/25/2013 9:24 AM, Joe Mastroianni wrote:
In another thread, it was mentioned that CFLs and LEDs last longer than incandescent bulbs. We all know incandescent bulbs fail due to the filaments being made so thin that they oxidize and burn up, over time. I believe incandescents fail because tungsten evaporates (the bulb blackens somewhat) and hot spots develop. Small lamps are under vacuum. At about 40W they are gas filled (not including oxygen). The gas reduces evaporation of the filament. In halogen lamps, the halogen transports the evaporated tungsten back to the filament. As a result the filament can run hotter, producing a smaller percentage of heat. But, what causes CFL bulbs to fail? I suspect in a significant percentage it is the ballast electronics that fail. In general, flourescents have a filament, or cold cathode, at each end that produces electrons. The electron emitting surface slowly fails and when it gets too low the lamp won't start. Sometimes the filaments open. And, what causes LED bulbs to fail? I would guess cumulative damage from heat. Semiconductors (and electronics in general) don't like heat. One of the problems in LED lamp design is removing the heat from the LED. |
What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
responding to http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...il-733988-.htm
DA wrote: Joe Mastroianni wrote: But, what causes CFL bulbs to fail? In my experience CFLs fail so rarely that I was never interested in why and never investigated - always looked like a random event anyhow. And, what causes LED bulbs to fail? LEDs, on the other hand, failed so frequently that I did look and, basically, the reason is two-fold. They require bringing the voltage across each individual LED to 3.5-3.6V Given that you start out with 120V power, they string 20+ of them together so the power supply of the LED bulb does not have to lower it down too much and they also very frequently skimp on the design and the components of the power supply. I can't say for the higher-end LED bulbs which I've not yet gotten any due to costs and my general skepticism about their life expectancy, but the lower-end ones I've opened often even lack some component that are clearly labeled on the PCB inside. For example, an inductor that's intended to limit the inrush current through the string of the diodes, is often labeled on the board but missing (replaced by a wire short) because it's kinda expensive (about $1). I'm also pretty sure the LEDs themselves and every other component inside were picked from the lowest cost (lowest quality) bins. One other intrinsic issue with LEDs due to their low voltage and consequent stringing of a couple of dozen together is that life expectancy of such serial circuit drops dramatically. It's pretty much false advertising when they print on the box "30,000 hours life" because even if one LED might really last 30,000 hours, the probability of the string of 24 failing in the first 1000 hours or less is much higher - the probabilities of each LED failing compound and bring the entire circuit's way down. -- /\_/\ ((@v@)) NIGHT ():::() OWL VV-VV |
What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
On 1/25/2013 10:24 AM, Joe Mastroianni wrote:
In another thread, it was mentioned that CFLs and LEDs last longer than incandescent bulbs. We all know incandescent bulbs fail due to the filaments being made so thin that they oxidize and burn up, over time. But, what causes CFL bulbs to fail? And, what causes LED bulbs to fail? Failure of incandescents is complex but mostly due to sublimation and thinning of the tungsten filament with time. When I bought my house over 35 years ago we had bulbs filled with krypton rather than the usual argon which slows sublimation and several of these bulbs are still in use. As others point out there is a lot or circuitry in these new bulbs that can fail before the actual light source itself. |
What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:22:57 -0800, Bill
wrote: In article , says... In another thread, it was mentioned that CFLs and LEDs last longer than incandescent bulbs. We all know incandescent bulbs fail due to the filaments being made so thin that they oxidize and burn up, over time. But, what causes CFL bulbs to fail? And, what causes LED bulbs to fail? Greed on the part of the manufacturers (for all light bulbs which do not last long). The bulb burns out, you buy a new one and they make more money! This bulb has worked for over 110 years... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light On both CFL: and LED the drive electronics are more likely to fail suddenly than the lamps themselves. Both LED and CFL loose output slowly with age - both use phosphours to create the visible white light, and those phosphours deteriorate with use (photon production) |
What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:22:57 -0800, Bill
wrote: In article , says... In another thread, it was mentioned that CFLs and LEDs last longer than incandescent bulbs. We all know incandescent bulbs fail due to the filaments being made so thin that they oxidize and burn up, over time. But, what causes CFL bulbs to fail? And, what causes LED bulbs to fail? Greed on the part of the manufacturers (for all light bulbs which do not last long). The bulb burns out, you buy a new one and they make more money! This bulb has worked for over 110 years... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light I remember back in the 70s seeing a tour of Thomas Edison's Florida home and they had a bulb of his burn so many hours a day since he left. I guess it was like 50+ years then and still burning well. So I got to believe what most people say in this thread as true. |
What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
But, what causes CFL bulbs to fail?
And, what causes LED bulbs to fail? Careful engineering. |
What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
Bill wrote in news:MPG.2b6c5f4c79da0529989720
@news.individual.net: In article , says... In another thread, it was mentioned that CFLs and LEDs last longer than incandescent bulbs. We all know incandescent bulbs fail due to the filaments being made so thin that they oxidize and burn up, over time. But, what causes CFL bulbs to fail? And, what causes LED bulbs to fail? Greed on the part of the manufacturers (for all light bulbs which do not last long). The bulb burns out, you buy a new one and they make more money! This bulb has worked for over 110 years... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light This one tops that a tad... http://tinyurl.com/aqoj4ae |
What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
I used to use a 300 watt incandescent bulb on a dimmer for my grandma
who couldnt see well.... bulb life was forever however the inside of the bulbs turned black over time, eventually so little light even at full dimmer output i couldnt read a paper. grandma was bothered i replaced the bulb before it burned out i have had a copuple CFLs die while i used spray wax in their vicinity. fire came out of one... it appears the spray wax vapor causes a short of some sort.. dont use a lot of wax but these days if i do i make certain the lights are off and cold, then i wrap a rag around the CFLs do my waxing, and remove the rags before powering the lamps back on. sometimes i just remove the bulbs if they are dsty and spray the glass part with water, then let it dry a long time |
What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
On 1/25/2013 11:22 AM, Bill wrote:
In , says... In another thread, it was mentioned that CFLs and LEDs last longer than incandescent bulbs. We all know incandescent bulbs fail due to the filaments being made so thin that they oxidize and burn up, over time. But, what causes CFL bulbs to fail? And, what causes LED bulbs to fail? Greed on the part of the manufacturers (for all light bulbs which do not last long). The bulb burns out, you buy a new one and they make more money! This bulb has worked for over 110 years... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light It is easy to get an incandescent lamp that has very long life. Just get a 240V bulb and use it on 120V. It will last nearly forever. But you won't get much light out of it. That is what "long life" bulbs do. There is a trade off of bulb life and light output. What is the light output of the Centennial and other long lived bulbs in this thread? |
What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
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What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 12:18:45 -0600, Doug
wrote: On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:22:57 -0800, Bill wrote: In article , says... In another thread, it was mentioned that CFLs and LEDs last longer than incandescent bulbs. We all know incandescent bulbs fail due to the filaments being made so thin that they oxidize and burn up, over time. But, what causes CFL bulbs to fail? And, what causes LED bulbs to fail? Greed on the part of the manufacturers (for all light bulbs which do not last long). The bulb burns out, you buy a new one and they make more money! This bulb has worked for over 110 years... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light I remember back in the 70s seeing a tour of Thomas Edison's Florida home and they had a bulb of his burn so many hours a day since he left. I guess it was like 50+ years then and still burning well. So I got to believe what most people say in this thread as true. That poor thing doesn't put out a whole lot of light either. Take a 100 watt 120 volt bulb and run it on 80 volts - particularly 9f you can feed it DC - - the light will be a warm yellow. equivalent to something like a 40 watt bulb - and will last for decades. |
What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
On 01/26/2013 04:33 PM, wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 12:18:45 -0600, Doug wrote: On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:22:57 -0800, Bill wrote: In article , says... In another thread, it was mentioned that CFLs and LEDs last longer than incandescent bulbs. We all know incandescent bulbs fail due to the filaments being made so thin that they oxidize and burn up, over time. But, what causes CFL bulbs to fail? And, what causes LED bulbs to fail? Greed on the part of the manufacturers (for all light bulbs which do not last long). The bulb burns out, you buy a new one and they make more money! This bulb has worked for over 110 years... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light I remember back in the 70s seeing a tour of Thomas Edison's Florida home and they had a bulb of his burn so many hours a day since he left. I guess it was like 50+ years then and still burning well. So I got to believe what most people say in this thread as true. That poor thing doesn't put out a whole lot of light either. Take a 100 watt 120 volt bulb and run it on 80 volts - particularly 9f you can feed it DC - - the light will be a warm yellow. equivalent to something like a 40 watt bulb - and will last for decades. It's an efficiency thing though... say you have a 120W, 240V incandescent running on 120V. The light out of that bulb will be dimmer than a 60W, 120V bulb running on 120V, as the filament won't be as hot and therefore won't glow as brightly. You're trading life for efficiency... nate nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply. http://members.cox.net/njnagel |
What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
On Jan 26, 4:38*pm, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 01/26/2013 04:33 PM, wrote: On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 12:18:45 -0600, Doug wrote: On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:22:57 -0800, Bill wrote: In article , says... In another thread, it was mentioned that CFLs and LEDs last longer than incandescent bulbs. We all know incandescent bulbs fail due to the filaments being made so thin that they oxidize and burn up, over time. But, what causes CFL bulbs to fail? And, what causes LED bulbs to fail? Greed on the part of the manufacturers (for all light bulbs which do not last long). The bulb burns out, you buy a new one and they make more money! This bulb has worked for over 110 years... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light I remember back in the 70s seeing a tour of Thomas Edison's Florida home and they had a bulb of his burn so many hours a day since he left. *I guess it was like 50+ years then and still burning well. * So I got to believe what most people say in this thread as true. * *That poor thing doesn't put out a whole lot of light either. Take a 100 watt 120 volt bulb and run it on 80 volts *- particularly 9f you can feed it DC - - the light will be a warm yellow. equivalent to something like a 40 watt bulb - and will last for decades. It's an efficiency thing though... say you have a 120W, 240V incandescent running on 120V. *The light out of that bulb will be dimmer than a 60W, 120V bulb running on 120V, as the filament won't be as hot and therefore won't glow as brightly. *You're trading life for efficiency... nate nate -- replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.http://members.cox.net/njnagel as i learened from my copier repair days the last 5 volts make a major difference in light output..... our building was old and the power line voltage varied a lot. which caused to light too dark copy complaints..... |
What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
On 1/26/2013 3:38 PM, Nate Nagel wrote:
On 01/26/2013 04:33 PM, wrote: On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 12:18:45 -0600, Doug wrote: On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:22:57 -0800, Bill wrote: In article , says... In another thread, it was mentioned that CFLs and LEDs last longer than incandescent bulbs. We all know incandescent bulbs fail due to the filaments being made so thin that they oxidize and burn up, over time. But, what causes CFL bulbs to fail? And, what causes LED bulbs to fail? Greed on the part of the manufacturers (for all light bulbs which do not last long). The bulb burns out, you buy a new one and they make more money! This bulb has worked for over 110 years... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light I remember back in the 70s seeing a tour of Thomas Edison's Florida home and they had a bulb of his burn so many hours a day since he left. I guess it was like 50+ years then and still burning well. So I got to believe what most people say in this thread as true. That poor thing doesn't put out a whole lot of light either. Take a 100 watt 120 volt bulb and run it on 80 volts - particularly 9f you can feed it DC - - the light will be a warm yellow. equivalent to something like a 40 watt bulb - and will last for decades. It's an efficiency thing though... say you have a 120W, 240V incandescent running on 120V. The light out of that bulb will be dimmer than a 60W, 120V bulb running on 120V, as the filament won't be as hot and therefore won't glow as brightly. You're trading life for efficiency... The graph I have goes to 90% voltage. At that point the life is increased 50% (and rising fast). The lumens are 70%. At half voltage the lumens would be a rather low percentage (far lower than 60W equivalent). As you lower the voltage the spectrum shifts toward red and infrared (as you more or less said) That means a much higher percentage is heat. With higher voltage the spectrum moves toward blue and a higher percentage is in the visible spectrum. Photographers used to run bulbs at overvoltage. Stadiums sometimes did the same thing. Last time I was in Menards they had some long life bulbs with appalling low lumen ratings for the wattage. |
What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
On 1/26/2013 5:25 PM, bud-- wrote:
The graph I have goes to 90% voltage. At that point the life is increased 50% (and rising fast). The lumens are 70%. At half voltage the lumens would be a rather low percentage (far lower than 60W equivalent). I read the wrong scale. At 90% voltage the life is already 3.5 x |
What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
Tall people walking into them, and kids playing ball inside.
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What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
wrote in message ... Tall people walking into them, and kids playing ball inside. That reminds me of a street light that was about a block from where I grew up at. This light was over the middle of an intersection in town. The road was not used much at night as this was about 50 years ago. We would get in the street and throw and kick a football around. Once or twice every year one of us would kick the football and hit the light and break it by accident. |
What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
On Jan 27, 9:24 am, bud-- wrote:
On 1/26/2013 5:25 PM, bud-- wrote: The graph I have goes to 90% voltage. At that point the life is increased 50% (and rising fast). The lumens are 70%. At half voltage the lumens would be a rather low percentage (far lower than 60W equivalent). I read the wrong scale. At 90% voltage the life is already 3.5 x One more factor.... efficiency... The lighting goes down fast,... the heat output ("light" we can't see) goes up fast ... Hint: Incandescents, at lower voltage are great in seasons where we would like more heat that light..... In the summer... not so much... |
What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
On 1/26/2013 10:04 AM, Peter wrote:
On 1/25/2013 11:22 AM, wrote: On Friday, January 25, 2013 7:24:18 AM UTC-8, Joe Mastroianni wrote: In another thread, it was mentioned that CFLs and LEDs last longer than incandescent bulbs. We all know incandescent bulbs fail due to the filaments being made so thin that they oxidize and burn up, over time. But, what causes CFL bulbs to fail? And, what causes LED bulbs to fail? I remember thirty years ago, you wouldn’t even think about breaking a fluorescent lamp while replacing it. In fact you hardly ever had to replace them. Now they make the class thinner than an eggshell and if you’re not VERY careful it breaks before you even finish putting it on, and even if you manage to put it on, the glass doesn’t last long once it gets hot. Glass is mostly made of silica which is cheap, so it’s not that the Chinese are saving money by making it thinner and if it’s not to save money then the only reason they would have to do so would be so you keep having to replace them and buy more. Shipping costs are weight sensitive. Not sure what glass thickness weight has to do with anything. I have never broken a bulb while installing it and never heard of fluorescent lamp glass overheating and failing. If anything modern fluorescent lamps last longer especially when using electronic ballasts. |
What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
On 1/25/2013 1:18 PM, Doug wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:22:57 -0800, Bill wrote: In article , says... In another thread, it was mentioned that CFLs and LEDs last longer than incandescent bulbs. We all know incandescent bulbs fail due to the filaments being made so thin that they oxidize and burn up, over time. But, what causes CFL bulbs to fail? And, what causes LED bulbs to fail? Greed on the part of the manufacturers (for all light bulbs which do not last long). The bulb burns out, you buy a new one and they make more money! This bulb has worked for over 110 years... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light I remember back in the 70s seeing a tour of Thomas Edison's Florida home and they had a bulb of his burn so many hours a day since he left. I guess it was like 50+ years then and still burning well. So I got to believe what most people say in this thread as true. Not really, if you burn an incandescent lamp below its design voltage you will see the color shifts to yellow because the filament is much less hotter and much less efficient as an illumination source but it also last for a lot longer. |
What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
On 1/25/2013 12:22 PM, Bill wrote:
In article , says... In another thread, it was mentioned that CFLs and LEDs last longer than incandescent bulbs. We all know incandescent bulbs fail due to the filaments being made so thin that they oxidize and burn up, over time. But, what causes CFL bulbs to fail? And, what causes LED bulbs to fail? Greed on the part of the manufacturers (for all light bulbs which do not last long). The bulb burns out, you buy a new one and they make more money! This bulb has worked for over 110 years... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centennial_Light Many people only care about price and not quality so that is what manufacturers make. If people expect CFLs to be 3/$1 at the big box mart what quality do you think they will have? |
What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
Joe Mastroianni wrote in news:kdu832$c6f$1@dont-
email.me: In another thread, it was mentioned that CFLs and LEDs last longer than incandescent bulbs. We all know incandescent bulbs fail due to the filaments being made so thin that they oxidize and burn up, over time. But, what causes CFL bulbs to fail? And, what causes LED bulbs to fail? Just replaced a cfl(18Watt,220Volt, Philips). Cause:bulging capacitor and brown burned plastic/electronics. Life: around .5 to 2 years. It is never a burned-out tube, always carbonized electronics. The left-over tubes are fun to play around with, you can light them with the static charge on the front of old tv-s. |
What is it that causes home light bulbs to fail ?
On Sun, 27 Jan 2013 08:37:25 -0800 (PST), Robert
wrote: On Jan 27, 9:24 am, bud-- wrote: On 1/26/2013 5:25 PM, bud-- wrote: The graph I have goes to 90% voltage. At that point the life is increased 50% (and rising fast). The lumens are 70%. At half voltage the lumens would be a rather low percentage (far lower than 60W equivalent). I read the wrong scale. At 90% voltage the life is already 3.5 x The rule of thumb I've always seen is that the filament life goes at about the 12th power of the voltage, which agrees with your number (5% almost doubles life). One more factor.... efficiency... The lighting goes down fast,... the heat output ("light" we can't see) goes up fast ... No, heat goes down, too, just not as fast as the light output. Hint: Incandescents, at lower voltage are great in seasons where we would like more heat that light..... In the summer... not so much... |
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