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#41
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
Joe Mastroianni wrote in :
On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 05:56:44 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote: The type of bulb you are using is probably not giving the light the way you want it. Use a plain incandescent and it will diffuse more rather than hit a localized spot. Maybe I do need to go back to the plain old-style 100W tungsten bulb. NOT IN THAT FIXTURE!! Read my other post in this thread... |
#42
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On Friday, January 25, 2013 6:57:44 AM UTC-5, wrote:
75 watt incandescent bulbs were banned on January 1 of this year. I am so effing sick of this extremist rhetoric. They're not coming to take your light bulbs any more than they're coming to take your guns. Our Federal government is too broke and mired down in its own dysfunction to go around kicking in doors and smashing light bulbs, Elliott Ness style. What's banned is the manufacture and importation of 75 watt incandescent bulbs, except for special-use types (i.e. rough service, floodlights, etc.). You can still use existing 75 Watt bulbs. You can still buy them as long as supplies hold out. A couple boxes of them will likely last you the rest of your life, and your kids will be used to CFL's so they won't care. |
#43
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
She's going to redecorate the room before then.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. wrote in message ... The big leap of faith is that you have to believe they are going to last decades in the typical application to recover the upfront cost. Given my experiences with CFL, I have good reason to doubt the longevity. If they crap out in two years, you're a big loser. |
#44
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
You will know the answer when (A) the fixture bursts into flame or (B)
your house burns down which ever comes first. Silly answerer you really can't have B without also having A, so A. Final anwser. |
#45
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 14:19:22 -0500, "=" wrote:
wrote in message .. . On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:32:46 -0500, "Tomsic" wrote: "Joe Mastroianni" wrote in message ... I have a desk lamp of the "brave little toaster" style which says to use a 60W bulb. Inside the light, it 'says' 60 watts. http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12036539.jpg My wife insists on a 75 Watt flood, which gives the right amount of light, but it gets hot as blazes. How much do you think 125% over the maximum matters? If the desk lamp also has a UL or CSA sticker, then a 60 watt bulb was used to test and approve the fixture for electrical and fire safety. Using a 75 watt bulb voids that listing. If you were to have a fire that was traced to the desk lamp and if the fire inspector determined that you had over-wattaged the lamp, then your fire insurance could be disallowed. Bull**** called. That's not very likely, of course, but it has happened. Citation needed. Likely it was in the "Residential Electrical System Aging Research Report" published by UL a few years ago. I think it's on line. IOW, you can't cite an example. We knew that. |
#46
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 13:51:27 -0500, Dan Espen wrote:
Nothing to worry about except the fire then... I personally doubt it will cause a fire - but I must say that I'm not sure (which is why I asked). Nobody cited anything specific - and - well I guess the onus is on me to figure out what the ratings actually mean. I presume (but this is an assumption), that a 60 Watt rating means it can handle at least double that forever - but I am clear that this is just an assumption. I hear all the houses-burning-down scare stories - and I don't deny that (because I don't know) but without any facts to back them up - that assumption is based on similar logic to mine (i.e., wild eyed guesses). Of course, the house-burning-down is a MUCH SAFER assumption - so I'm not poo pooing it - I'm just saying that nobody who said the house would burn down has shown any proof of it actually happening even once. Of course, with 150 million homes (or so) in the US, I'm sure houses burn down from all sorts of things - but I can say I've got a handful of these lamps, all running the 75 Watt Halogen Par-something bulb - and the only thing I see so far is that they do get rather hot. Anyway - I'll stick to the rating being half the actual limit until/ unless someone shows proof otherwise. BTW, I don't disagree with the statement that the thing will slowly deteriorate with higher heat - but again, nobody showed proof so that's just an assumption also. Still - it was a good idea to change out the plastic socket for ceramic and to move the switch to the cord - so these I will explore. |
#47
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On Jan 25, 1:51*pm, Dan Espen wrote:
" writes: On Jan 25, 12:38*pm, Dan Espen wrote: Joe Mastroianni writes: On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 07:15:46 -0800, Art Harris wrote: How much do you think 125% over the maximum matters? I'd say it's 25% over the recommended maximun. You are correct. I phrased it incorrectly. 75 Watts is 25% over the maximum of 60 Watts, or, 125% of the maximum. Seems to me, 25% is within the safety zone of ???? (what is the safety zone). I find it hard to believe the safety zone is zero. I suspect it's more like double the rating (i.e., it's probably more like 60 x 2 = 120 Watts) but I'm just guessing. That's why I asked. A couple of posters shared their experience. I find fixtures even with the correct bulb age over time, parts get brittle and start to fall apart. I definitely would not put a 75W incandescent in a 60W fixture. The risk is no where near the gain. *The risk is that your house burns down and the insurance company denies your claim. Oh, good grief, here we go again. *The insurance scare stories at it again. *Every time this comes up, I've asked where all the examples of this kind of thing happening are. *Where are those denied claims? There are what 100 million homes in the USA? * *If insurance companies were actually denying claims for things like that, it should be easy to come up with examples. *I mean if they are gonna deny that, then they might as well deny a claim for the house burning down because you left a pot burning on the stove. *Or because you smoked in bed. So, example please? Right, so trader says the insurance company *won't deny your claim. Nothing to worry about except the fire then... -- Dan Espen- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I take that to mean you have no examples of an insurance company denying a claim because someone put in a bulb that was too large and you were just spreading FUD. |
#48
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On Jan 25, 3:33*pm, wrote:
On Friday, January 25, 2013 6:57:44 AM UTC-5, wrote: 75 watt incandescent bulbs were banned on January 1 of this year. I am so effing sick of this extremist rhetoric. They're not coming to take your light bulbs any more than they're coming to take your guns. Our Federal government is too broke and mired down in its own dysfunction to go around kicking in doors and smashing light bulbs, Elliott Ness style. Then if the govt is so broke and mired down, why is the focus of the White House and the libs more gun control instead of spending cuts to reduce the budget? Polls consistently show that people put creating jobs and reducing the deficit as top priorities. Banning assault weapons are way down the list. But it's a nice diversion courtesy of you libs. And if they aren't taking your guns, why did NY state just pass a law that makes the standard magazines sold with probably 90% of the legal pistols for self defense illegal? Not only are sales banned of any magazine greater than 7 rounds, but legal owners have a year to get rid of them. Before that, NY banned mags greater than 10 rounds. Now it's 7. See a trend here and why it's obvious what you libs are up to? What's banned is the manufacture and importation of 75 watt incandescent bulbs, except for special-use types (i.e. rough service, floodlights, etc.).. You can still use existing 75 Watt bulbs. You can still buy them as long as supplies hold out. A couple boxes of them will likely last you the rest of your life, and your kids will be used to CFL's so they won't care. Wow, you can still buy them until they run out.... How generous of you libs. I'm sure you'll do the same thing when you ban fatty foods and have us all eating soylent green. |
#49
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
Joe Mastroianni wrote in :
On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 13:51:27 -0500, Dan Espen wrote: Nothing to worry about except the fire then... I personally doubt it will cause a fire - but I must say that I'm not sure (which is why I asked). Well, what *would* you expect to happen when insulation that has been dried up and embrittled by excessive heat flakes off of the wires, resulting in electrical arcs between the exposed conductors? Nobody cited anything specific - and - well I guess the onus is on me to figure out what the ratings actually mean. I certainly cited something specific -- what happened to the kitchen light fixtures in my house as a result of the previous owners doing *exactly* what you are proposing to do: put 75W bulbs in fixtures clearly labelled "60W max". Did you not read that? Or did you just decide to ignore it? I presume (but this is an assumption), that a 60 Watt rating means it can handle at least double that forever - but I am clear that this is just an assumption. What on earth would make you think that? "60W max" means what it says. The fixture wires WILL be damaged if you use 75W bulbs. Anyway - I'll stick to the rating being half the actual limit until/ unless someone shows proof otherwise. You know, I'm beginning to think that you're not very smart. |
#50
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On Friday, January 25, 2013 2:14:50 PM UTC-7, Cliff H wrote:
You will know the answer when (A) the fixture bursts into flame or (B) your house burns down which ever comes first. Silly answerer you really can't have B without also having A, so A. Final anwser. You're a pedantic person. Begone thou varlet. === |
#51
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On 01/25/2013 05:37 PM, Joe Mastroianni wrote:
Anyway - I'll stick to the rating being half the actual limit until/ unless someone shows proof otherwise. BTW, I don't disagree with the statement that the thing will slowly deteriorate with higher heat - but again, nobody showed proof so that's just an assumption also. Still - it was a good idea to change out the plastic socket for ceramic and to move the switch to the cord - so these I will explore. Your house, do what you want. We don't really give a ****! Consider this though. The fixture was tested and the highest rating after testing was 60 watts. If the manufacturer could have squeezed another 15 watts out of the fixture, they would have. |
#52
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 23:27:58 +0000 (UTC), Doug Miller
wrote: Joe Mastroianni wrote in : On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 13:51:27 -0500, Dan Espen wrote: Nothing to worry about except the fire then... I personally doubt it will cause a fire - but I must say that I'm not sure (which is why I asked). Well, what *would* you expect to happen when insulation that has been dried up and embrittled by excessive heat flakes off of the wires, resulting in electrical arcs between the exposed conductors? Nobody cited anything specific - and - well I guess the onus is on me to figure out what the ratings actually mean. I certainly cited something specific -- what happened to the kitchen light fixtures in my house as a result of the previous owners doing *exactly* what you are proposing to do: put 75W bulbs in fixtures clearly labelled "60W max". Did you not read that? Or did you just decide to ignore it? I presume (but this is an assumption), that a 60 Watt rating means it can handle at least double that forever - but I am clear that this is just an assumption. What on earth would make you think that? "60W max" means what it says. The fixture wires WILL be damaged if you use 75W bulbs. Anyway - I'll stick to the rating being half the actual limit until/ unless someone shows proof otherwise. You know, I'm beginning to think that you're not very smart. Let's be careful with the accusations. It took you long enough to figure out he's got one wheel in the sand. :-) |
#53
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 15:10:03 +0000 (UTC), Joe Mastroianni
wrote: On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:48:16 -0500, Tomsic wrote: They're in an "exempt" category which includes decorative, colored and other types which are not widely used. Makes sense. Bulb choices for consumers actually increased in 2012. Doesn't make sense. How did removing bulb choices increase bulb choices? Makes perfect sense. They eliminated one type of bulb. Two or three other types are on the shelf to replace it and, thus, more choices. I'm using LED night lights in a couple of spots, but the regular sizes are still not perfected just yet that I've seen. I think they will be the light of choice in a few years. |
#54
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 23:33:31 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
I think they (LEDs) will be the light of choice in a few years. In just 20 years, I predict kids will be asking their parents: "What's a light bulb"? Since LEDs will be everywhere - and - they'll be permanent (once they get the failure items worked out). |
#55
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On 01-25-2013 18:27, Doug Miller wrote:
Well, what*would* you expect to happen when insulation that has been dried up and embrittled by excessive heat flakes off of the wires, resulting in electrical arcs between the exposed conductors? I would expect a circuit breaker to trip. However, if arcing causes a speck of hot metal to pop out onto a tissue ..... -- Wes Groleau Ostracism: A practice of sticking your head in the sand. |
#56
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
It's what I used, when I got off the "rotary dial phone" after I put my "eye
glasses" on, so I could "read" the "label" on the "33 LP album". so we could "dance" after dinneer. Of course, the quoted items, the kids will need explained also. Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Joe Mastroianni" wrote in message ... On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 23:33:31 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote: I think they (LEDs) will be the light of choice in a few years. In just 20 years, I predict kids will be asking their parents: "What's a light bulb"? Since LEDs will be everywhere - and - they'll be permanent (once they get the failure items worked out). |
#57
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On Jan 25, 11:33*pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 15:10:03 +0000 (UTC), Joe Mastroianni wrote: On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:48:16 -0500, Tomsic wrote: *They're in an "exempt" category which includes decorative, colored and other types which *are not widely used. Makes sense. Bulb choices for consumers actually increased in 2012. Doesn't make sense. How did removing bulb choices increase bulb choices? Makes perfect sense. *They eliminated one type of bulb. *Two or three other types are on the shelf to replace it and, thus, more choices. I'm using LED night lights in a couple of spots, but the regular sizes are still not perfected just yet that I've seen. *I think they will be the light of choice in a few years. Following that logic, let's ban cell phones and LCD TVs too. Amazing how some folks want the govt to control everything. |
#58
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
"Joe Mastroianni" wrote in message ... On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 23:33:31 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote: I think they (LEDs) will be the light of choice in a few years. In just 20 years, I predict kids will be asking their parents: "What's a light bulb"? Since LEDs will be everywhere - and - they'll be permanent (once they get the failure items worked out). Think of them more like an appliance -- similar to a blender or toaster. And take them along when you move. Tomsic |
#59
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
Wes Groleau wrote in :
On 01-25-2013 18:27, Doug Miller wrote: Well, what*would* you expect to happen when insulation that has been dried up and embrittled by excessive heat flakes off of the wires, resulting in electrical arcs between the exposed conductors? I would expect a circuit breaker to trip. I would expect an *arc fault* breaker to trip. But a standard circuit breaker may or may not trip -- it depends on how much current the arc is carrying. |
#60
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On 1/25/2013 4:37 PM, Joe Mastroianni wrote:
On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 13:51:27 -0500, Dan Espen wrote: Nothing to worry about except the fire then... I personally doubt it will cause a fire - but I must say that I'm not sure (which is why I asked). Might not cause a fire. Might just cause insulation failure with contact from wire to metal parts. You might only electrocute someone. Or you might just have the fixture fail in a relatively short time. Anyway - I'll stick to the rating being half the actual limit until/ unless someone shows proof otherwise. Good idea. And another great idea - the circuit rating is actually "half the actual limit". You can replace the 15A breaker on the circuit with a 30A one. Nothing will happen. (Where is the proof otherwise.) And if fixture insulation fails and wires short you might not even have the inconvenience of a breaker trip. BTW, I don't disagree with the statement that the thing will slowly deteriorate with higher heat - but again, nobody showed proof so that's just an assumption also. An electrician has "seen many overheated light fixtures". A couple other people have seen damage from overlamping. I have seen damage. But go ahead. You may win the Darwin Award. |
#61
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
wrote in message ... On Friday, January 25, 2013 6:57:44 AM UTC-5, wrote: 75 watt incandescent bulbs were banned on January 1 of this year. I am so effing sick of this extremist rhetoric. They're not coming to take your light bulbs any more than they're coming to take your guns. Our Federal government is too broke and mired down in its own dysfunction to go around kicking in doors and smashing light bulbs, Elliott Ness style. What's banned is the manufacture and importation of 75 watt incandescent bulbs, except for special-use types (i.e. rough service, floodlights, etc.). You can still use existing 75 Watt bulbs. You can still buy them as long as supplies hold out. A couple boxes of them will likely last you the rest of your life, and your kids will be used to CFL's so they won't care. Right on. The rants about government control are more than tiresome. In the case of light bulbs, the legislation to phase them out started with the energy advocates. They went to the Congressional staff of the House and Senate Energy Committees and said that they wanted to regulate certain inefficient light bulbs so that more efficient bulbs would be used. The advocates had plenty of support - some utilities, other energy conservation groups and lots of people who thought saving energy is a good idea. They organized and took their message to Congress. Then Congress held hearings, asked folks, including the light bulb manufacturers, what they thought and the legislation was written. It must have been a fair process because no one was happy with the results. I haven't found anyone involved who got what they wanted. Then, the legislation went to Congress, was approved by both houses and signed by President Bush in 2007. It kicked in 5 years later - in 2012 with the phase out of the 100 watt bulb - and all of a sudden the critics woke up and started complaining about government control. Now, with the free market working, more bulb choices available than ever before at about any price range that you want and with energy being saved with all of them, I wonder just what the fuss is about and where critics were when the laws were being debated. Tomsic |
#62
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
"Joe Mastroianni" wrote in message ... On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 13:51:27 -0500, Dan Espen wrote: Nothing to worry about except the fire then... I personally doubt it will cause a fire - but I must say that I'm not sure (which is why I asked). Nobody cited anything specific - and - well I guess the onus is on me to figure out what the ratings actually mean. I presume (but this is an assumption), that a 60 Watt rating means it can handle at least double that forever - but I am clear that this is just an assumption. I hear all the houses-burning-down scare stories - and I don't deny that (because I don't know) but without any facts to back them up - that assumption is based on similar logic to mine (i.e., wild eyed guesses). Of course, the house-burning-down is a MUCH SAFER assumption - so I'm not poo pooing it - I'm just saying that nobody who said the house would burn down has shown any proof of it actually happening even once. Of course, with 150 million homes (or so) in the US, I'm sure houses burn down from all sorts of things - but I can say I've got a handful of these lamps, all running the 75 Watt Halogen Par-something bulb - and the only thing I see so far is that they do get rather hot. Anyway - I'll stick to the rating being half the actual limit until/ unless someone shows proof otherwise. BTW, I don't disagree with the statement that the thing will slowly deteriorate with higher heat - but again, nobody showed proof so that's just an assumption also. Still - it was a good idea to change out the plastic socket for ceramic and to move the switch to the cord - so these I will explore. Before you adopt your made-up "half the actual limit" idea, why don't you read the UL Standard on the subject which details the test procedures and assumptions that UL uses. It's UL Standard 8750 and applies to permanently-mounted light fixtures. Any electrical inspector will have a copy or you can buy it from UL or CSA since it's harmonized with Canada too. Tomsic |
#63
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
wrote in message ... On Jan 25, 1:51 pm, Dan Espen wrote: " writes: On Jan 25, 12:38 pm, Dan Espen wrote: Joe Mastroianni writes: On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 07:15:46 -0800, Art Harris wrote: How much do you think 125% over the maximum matters? I'd say it's 25% over the recommended maximun. You are correct. I phrased it incorrectly. 75 Watts is 25% over the maximum of 60 Watts, or, 125% of the maximum. Seems to me, 25% is within the safety zone of ???? (what is the safety zone). I find it hard to believe the safety zone is zero. I suspect it's more like double the rating (i.e., it's probably more like 60 x 2 = 120 Watts) but I'm just guessing. That's why I asked. A couple of posters shared their experience. I find fixtures even with the correct bulb age over time, parts get brittle and start to fall apart. I definitely would not put a 75W incandescent in a 60W fixture. The risk is no where near the gain. The risk is that your house burns down and the insurance company denies your claim. Oh, good grief, here we go again. The insurance scare stories at it again. Every time this comes up, I've asked where all the examples of this kind of thing happening are. Where are those denied claims? There are what 100 million homes in the USA? If insurance companies were actually denying claims for things like that, it should be easy to come up with examples. I mean if they are gonna deny that, then they might as well deny a claim for the house burning down because you left a pot burning on the stove. Or because you smoked in bed. So, example please? Right, so trader says the insurance company won't deny your claim. Nothing to worry about except the fire then... -- Dan Espen- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I take that to mean you have no examples of an insurance company denying a claim because someone put in a bulb that was too large and you were just spreading FUD. Well, I posted where I thought I read it. Why don't you look it up? At the very least you'll learn something about the hazards of old wiring in homes and there are some nifty pictures too. But remember that UL is a non-government organization started by insurance companies ("underwriters"), so the UL sticker is an indication of what they think is safe according to their own standards. In an argument - or court case -between a home owner and an insurance company about any electrical product that electrocuted someone or started a fire, who do you think would have the best chances of winning if the product didn't have a UL sticker? Tomsic |
#64
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
"micky" wrote in message ... On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 05:56:39 +0000 (UTC), Joe Mastroianni wrote: I have a desk lamp of the "brave little toaster" style which says to use a 60W bulb. Inside the light, it 'says' 60 watts. http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12036539.jpg My wife insists on a 75 Watt flood, which gives the right amount of light, but it gets hot as blazes. How much do you think 125% over the maximum matters? I put 100 watt bubls in my kitchen ceiling fixture with 3 globes keeping the heat in, and over a couple three or 10 years, the plastic around the metal sockets got brittle and fell off in chunks. One socket stopped working too, bad wire connection at the metal socket. I also used a 100 watt bulb in a desk lamp with a cone shaped metal shade, and iover a couple years it damaged the socket, but in this case the built-in switch. The kind of socket that is colinear with the rotating knob that is the switch, (like is used in over the bed headboard lamps with the long salami shaped bulbs) I have to grab the round thing hard and trun hard, to go from on to off and offf to on. The next two notches, which are the same thing are easy, but that makes a full revolution, and the next 2 are very hard again. No fires. And this is 100 for a 60, not 75 for one (the ceiling fixture. The desk lamp may have been designed for 75) BTW, the lamp is probably 50 yeaers old and will last another hundred after I replace the socket/switch. During the really hot weather I had to start using CFL in it or it was too hot to get close too, but the switch was damaged already. You are blessed with luck and good fortune; but I hope your insurance agent reads your post and figures out who you are because I don't want you in my risk group. And, test your smoke detectors regularly. Tomsic |
#65
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
"Tomsic" wrote in message ... "Joe Mastroianni" wrote in message ... On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 13:51:27 -0500, Dan Espen wrote: Nothing to worry about except the fire then... I personally doubt it will cause a fire - but I must say that I'm not sure (which is why I asked). Nobody cited anything specific - and - well I guess the onus is on me to figure out what the ratings actually mean. I presume (but this is an assumption), that a 60 Watt rating means it can handle at least double that forever - but I am clear that this is just an assumption. I hear all the houses-burning-down scare stories - and I don't deny that (because I don't know) but without any facts to back them up - that assumption is based on similar logic to mine (i.e., wild eyed guesses). Of course, the house-burning-down is a MUCH SAFER assumption - so I'm not poo pooing it - I'm just saying that nobody who said the house would burn down has shown any proof of it actually happening even once. Of course, with 150 million homes (or so) in the US, I'm sure houses burn down from all sorts of things - but I can say I've got a handful of these lamps, all running the 75 Watt Halogen Par-something bulb - and the only thing I see so far is that they do get rather hot. Anyway - I'll stick to the rating being half the actual limit until/ unless someone shows proof otherwise. BTW, I don't disagree with the statement that the thing will slowly deteriorate with higher heat - but again, nobody showed proof so that's just an assumption also. Still - it was a good idea to change out the plastic socket for ceramic and to move the switch to the cord - so these I will explore. Before you adopt your made-up "half the actual limit" idea, why don't you read the UL Standard on the subject which details the test procedures and assumptions that UL uses. It's UL Standard 8750 and applies to permanently-mounted light fixtures. Any electrical inspector will have a copy or you can buy it from UL or CSA since it's harmonized with Canada too. Tomsic My mistake. The lighting fixture standard is UL-1598. The LED standard is 8750. Tomsic |
#66
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 11:15:29 -0500, Tomsic wrote:
The lighting fixture standard is UL-1598. I found that 293-page "Luminaires UL 1598" standard he http://file.yizimg.com/173503/200610...2442236757.pdf Looking for the wattage-rating test procedure, I scroll through to page 138 where section 14 seems to cover temperature limits. Section 14.1.3 Rated wattage of lamp used Table 14.1.2 Maximum temperature limits Reading that section over and over, I am not illuminated as to what excess safety limits are in a 60 Watt rating. I can see it has everything to do with temperature - since Clause 19.14.1.3 appears to be all about the temperature test box; but I can't really tell what the safety factor is from reading this document. Does someone with more acumen than I have insight into where in that document it spells out the safety factor inherent in the standard? |
#67
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 05:56:39 +0000, Joe Mastroianni wrote:
Inside the light, it 'says' 60 watts. http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12036539.jpg How much do you think 125% over the maximum matters? I followed your advice and found shorter CFL bulbs. http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/12046713.jpg They have about half the light but they don't stick out anymore. And, those Halogen 75 Watt Par30 bulbs were blazing hot! The CFL is almost cool to the touch so it's a good solution that fits the problem set without too many compromises. |
#68
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 05:52:56 -0800 (PST), "
wrote: On Jan 25, 11:33*pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 15:10:03 +0000 (UTC), Joe Mastroianni wrote: On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:48:16 -0500, Tomsic wrote: *They're in an "exempt" category which includes decorative, colored and other types which *are not widely used. Makes sense. Bulb choices for consumers actually increased in 2012. Doesn't make sense. How did removing bulb choices increase bulb choices? Makes perfect sense. *They eliminated one type of bulb. *Two or three other types are on the shelf to replace it and, thus, more choices. I'm using LED night lights in a couple of spots, but the regular sizes are still not perfected just yet that I've seen. *I think they will be the light of choice in a few years. Following that logic, let's ban cell phones and LCD TVs too. Amazing how some folks want the govt to control everything. Huh??? What logic? Where did government control come in play here? What does light bulbs have to do with cell phones and TVs? |
#69
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On Jan 26, 12:25*pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 05:52:56 -0800 (PST), " wrote: On Jan 25, 11:33 pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 15:10:03 +0000 (UTC), Joe Mastroianni wrote: On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:48:16 -0500, Tomsic wrote: They're in an "exempt" category which includes decorative, colored and other types which are not widely used. Makes sense. Bulb choices for consumers actually increased in 2012. Doesn't make sense. How did removing bulb choices increase bulb choices? Makes perfect sense. They eliminated one type of bulb. Two or three other types are on the shelf to replace it and, thus, more choices. I'm using LED night lights in a couple of spots, but the regular sizes are still not perfected just yet that I've seen. I think they will be the light of choice in a few years. Following that logic, let's ban cell phones and LCD TVs too. Amazing how some folks want the govt to control everything. Huh??? *What logic? *Where did government control come in play here? What does light bulbs have to do with cell phones and TVs?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Last time I checked, it was govt that banned incandescent like bulbs that they didn't like. The had a problem with people being free to choose. It bothered the powers that be greatly that I might choose a simple 100 watt bulb for my outdoor shed. You said that's a good thing, because it leads to more choices. So, why not ban cell phones and LCD TV's and see what great innovation that leads to? It's been big soft drinks, salt, light bulbs, the right of smokers to have a cigar dinner at a restaurant in their own seperate room. Right now it's guns. See how you like it when the tell you that soylent green is the only acceptable food. Sounds like you're ready to chow down. As for me, just leave me free to choose. See how you like it when they come for your big |
#71
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On Jan 26, 1:00*am, Wes Groleau wrote:
On 01-25-2013 18:27, Doug Miller wrote: Well, what*would* *you expect to happen when insulation that has been dried up and embrittled by excessive heat flakes off of the wires, resulting in electrical arcs between the exposed conductors? I would expect a circuit breaker to trip. However, if arcing causes a speck of hot metal to pop out onto a tissue ..... -- Wes Groleau * * Ostracism: A practice of sticking your head in the sand. my bedroom light failed this way. I awoke to go to bathroom and realized my pillow must of fallen to the floor so i turned the light switch on as i walked out of room, figuring my eyes would have time to adust by the time i got back...... however i saw a super brite flash, turned the switch off and didnt get any more sleep. the 50 year old wires insulation was crumbling and started arcing to the fixture, the breaker didnt trip but a nice shower of sparks came down on the bed..... needless to say i replaced all the fixtures in the house most were showing the same detoriation |
#72
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 06:00:06 +0000 (UTC), Joe Mastroianni
wrote: On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 23:33:31 -0500, Ed Pawlowski wrote: I think they (LEDs) will be the light of choice in a few years. In just 20 years, I predict kids will be asking their parents: "What's a light bulb"? Since LEDs will be everywhere - and - they'll be permanent (once they get the failure items worked out). Maybe so, but completely irrelevant. |
#73
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 09:48:53 -0800 (PST), "
wrote: On Jan 26, 12:25*pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 05:52:56 -0800 (PST), " wrote: On Jan 25, 11:33 pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 15:10:03 +0000 (UTC), Joe Mastroianni wrote: On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:48:16 -0500, Tomsic wrote: They're in an "exempt" category which includes decorative, colored and other types which are not widely used. Makes sense. Bulb choices for consumers actually increased in 2012. Doesn't make sense. How did removing bulb choices increase bulb choices? Makes perfect sense. They eliminated one type of bulb. Two or three other types are on the shelf to replace it and, thus, more choices. I'm using LED night lights in a couple of spots, but the regular sizes are still not perfected just yet that I've seen. I think they will be the light of choice in a few years. Following that logic, let's ban cell phones and LCD TVs too. Amazing how some folks want the govt to control everything. Huh??? *What logic? *Where did government control come in play here? What does light bulbs have to do with cell phones and TVs?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Last time I checked, it was govt that banned incandescent like bulbs that they didn't like. The had a problem with people being free to choose. It bothered the powers that be greatly that I might choose a simple 100 watt bulb for my outdoor shed. You said that's a good thing, because it leads to more choices. So, why not ban cell phones and LCD TV's and see what great innovation that leads to? It's been big soft drinks, salt, light bulbs, the right of smokers to have a cigar dinner at a restaurant in their own seperate room. Toilets. Right now it's guns. See how you like it when the tell you that soylent green is the only acceptable food. Sounds like you're ready to chow down. As for me, just leave me free to choose. See how you like it when they come for your big As I said earlier, it's not about guns or anything from the list above. It's all about *control*. "You are sheep! Shut up and act like it!" |
#74
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On 01/25/2013 12:59 PM, = wrote:
"Joe Mastroianni" wrote in message ... On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:48:16 -0500, Tomsic wrote: They're in an "exempt" category which includes decorative, colored and other types which are not widely used. Makes sense. Bulb choices for consumers actually increased in 2012. Doesn't make sense. How did removing bulb choices increase bulb choices? Well in the case of the 100 watt bulb during 2012, the 100 watt was replaced by the 72 watt. It's more efficient and gives about the same amount of light, costs about the same and is rated to last for 1,000 hours, so that's one choice. Another choice is the so-called "2X" bulb that a company called ADLT announced. It gives the same light output as the old 100 watt, but draws only 50 watts and is rated for 1500 hours. That's an additional choice that we didn't have before. Then there are the screw-in CFLs, usually rated for about 26 watts. The prices have come down significantly on those and some are also rated for more light output than the old 100 watt. But it's a 3rd. choice because the types shaped like the old standard bulbs just appeared last year. Finally, about mid-2012, the major lamp companies introduced LED equivalents to the 100 watt also rated about 26 watts. That's a 4th. choice. So, what I see on retailer shelves is that the old 100 watt bulb can now be replaced by 3 or 4 alternatives depending upon what you want -- long life, low initial cost, efficiency, color, dimability, etc. The "2X" isn't in wide distribution yet; but the others are. One bulb disappeared and 3-4 alternatives with various performance options are now on the shelves with the same thing already happening for the 75 watt that's being phased out now except that the alternatives are cheaper and more available. What doesn't seem to make sense is why some people bought stocks of the old 100 watt bulbs and are hoarding them. Tomsic The problem I have with some of the new alternatives (e.g. CFL, LED) is that they don't respond well to the use of conventional dimmers. A 100 watt bulb might be used full-on a small fraction of the time (i.e. usually dimmed) and hence use much less than 100 watts on average. Replacing it with a non-dimmable alternative might actually use a comparable amount of energy, or even in rare instances more energy, with less flexibility. We have a mix of lighting technologies in our house -- old fashioned incandescent, halogen, fluorescent tube, CFL, LED, and even neon -- each chosen for its particular attributes of light output, energy consumption, dimmability, color, configuration and mood. |
#75
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
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#76
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 09:48:53 -0800 (PST), "
wrote: On Jan 26, 12:25*pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On Sat, 26 Jan 2013 05:52:56 -0800 (PST), " wrote: On Jan 25, 11:33 pm, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 15:10:03 +0000 (UTC), Joe Mastroianni wrote: On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 09:48:16 -0500, Tomsic wrote: They're in an "exempt" category which includes decorative, colored and other types which are not widely used. Makes sense. Bulb choices for consumers actually increased in 2012. Doesn't make sense. How did removing bulb choices increase bulb choices? Makes perfect sense. They eliminated one type of bulb. Two or three other types are on the shelf to replace it and, thus, more choices. I'm using LED night lights in a couple of spots, but the regular sizes are still not perfected just yet that I've seen. I think they will be the light of choice in a few years. Following that logic, let's ban cell phones and LCD TVs too. Amazing how some folks want the govt to control everything. Huh??? *What logic? *Where did government control come in play here? What does light bulbs have to do with cell phones and TVs?- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Last time I checked, it was govt that banned incandescent like bulbs that they didn't like. The had a problem with people being free to choose. It bothered the powers that be greatly that I might choose a simple 100 watt bulb for my outdoor shed. You said that's a good thing, because it leads to more choices. So, why not ban cell phones and LCD TV's and see what great innovation that leads to? It's been big soft drinks, salt, light bulbs, the right of smokers to have a cigar dinner at a restaurant in their own seperate room. Right now it's guns. See how you like it when the tell you that soylent green is the only acceptable food. Sounds like you're ready to chow down. As for me, just leave me free to choose. See how you like it when they come for your big Well, you ****ed up and have little reading comprehension. Please point out where I said it was a good thing. Stop putting words in my mouth that I did not say. If you read what I did write above, it was about the number of choices. Yes, one was taken away for whatever reason, good or bad, but that does not mean we don't have more choices that we did years ago. Used to be, you bough an incandescent light bulb, your only choice. Now, you can still find them in most stores, but if not, you can find CFL, FL, LED, low energy incans, and so forth. They did not exist some years ago. Old bulb type = one choice Many new types = more choices. You certainly twisted a simple statement. Oh, I happen to like LEDs and once they have a better price point, they will be my first choice. I happen to like the white light they emit. You seem to have a lot of anger built up. |
#77
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
I put a halogen on a dimmer once. It appeared to dim and work fine,
although I decided the dimmer got near zero use so i replaced the dimmer with a regular switch and installed CFLs Getting rid of incandescents saves power and avoids power companys building more power plants that cost big bucks and would impact every rate payer....... The LED bulbs in new RVs look really great |
#78
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 13:51:27 -0500, Dan Espen
wrote: " writes: On Jan 25, 12:38*pm, Dan Espen wrote: Joe Mastroianni writes: On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 07:15:46 -0800, Art Harris wrote: How much do you think 125% over the maximum matters? I'd say it's 25% over the recommended maximun. You are correct. I phrased it incorrectly. 75 Watts is 25% over the maximum of 60 Watts, or, 125% of the maximum. Seems to me, 25% is within the safety zone of ???? (what is the safety zone). I find it hard to believe the safety zone is zero. I suspect it's more like double the rating (i.e., it's probably more like 60 x 2 = 120 Watts) but I'm just guessing. That's why I asked. A couple of posters shared their experience. I find fixtures even with the correct bulb age over time, parts get brittle and start to fall apart. I definitely would not put a 75W incandescent in a 60W fixture. The risk is no where near the gain. *The risk is that your house burns down and the insurance company denies your claim. Oh, good grief, here we go again. The insurance scare stories at it again. Every time this comes up, I've asked where all the examples of this kind of thing happening are. Where are those denied claims? There are what 100 million homes in the USA? If insurance companies were actually denying claims for things like that, it should be easy to come up with examples. I mean if they are gonna deny that, then they might as well deny a claim for the house burning down because you left a pot burning on the stove. Or because you smoked in bed. So, example please? Right, so trader says the insurance company won't deny your claim. Nothing to worry about except the fire then... What will NOT happen is the manufacturer of the lamp being found responsible for the fire due to a faulty product. Use the product other than as directed and there is no warranty - and no liability on the part of the manufacturer / seller. |
#79
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 22:37:44 +0000 (UTC), Joe Mastroianni
wrote: On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 13:51:27 -0500, Dan Espen wrote: Nothing to worry about except the fire then... I personally doubt it will cause a fire - but I must say that I'm not sure (which is why I asked). Nobody cited anything specific - and - well I guess the onus is on me to figure out what the ratings actually mean. I presume (but this is an assumption), that a 60 Watt rating means it can handle at least double that forever - but I am clear that this is just an assumption. And you know what ASS U ME does - - - I hear all the houses-burning-down scare stories - and I don't deny that (because I don't know) but without any facts to back them up - that assumption is based on similar logic to mine (i.e., wild eyed guesses). What happens depends on the construction of the lamp. The brass socket style have craft paper type insulator between the brass shell and the internal socket. Overheat and it burns. Usually no fire - but now there is no electrical insulation - and the brass, having been overheated, looses it's temper - gets soft - and now the pressed together shell gets loose, and it is easily knocked apert - so the shell now shorts to the exposed terminal on the socket - and the lamp becomes "live" If it is an open lamp, that's generally the extent of the damage - untill someone touches it and gets a (possibly serious) shock. If the lamp is an enclosed fixture, snug to the ceiling or wall, the insulation in the fixture breakes down - the insulation in the socket - if brass- deteriorates as above, with the same result - except it can short to ground - possibly blowing the fuse - possibly establishing an arc which can ignite anything flamable - including, possibly, the wire insulation in the box. The high heat can also melt or warp plastic shades and difusers - and depending on the design, the plastic can contact the hot bulb - causing either fire or toxic smoke. In a best case scenario, the overheated socket simply looses contact pressure on the center contact, causing the lamp to flicker or not work. The high resistance connection - if left powered on for too long, can severely overheat and, again, POSSIBLY cause a fire or damage to house wiring in the box. At the very least - the socket/fixture itself is damaged and requires replacement. Replacing with a ceramic (not plastic) socket can REDUCE some of the problems, again depending on the fixture design. GENERALLY ceramic sockets are rated higher than brass (or steel) and ALWAYS higher than plastic (which should really be outlawed). Of course, the house-burning-down is a MUCH SAFER assumption - so I'm not poo pooing it - I'm just saying that nobody who said the house would burn down has shown any proof of it actually happening even once. Of course, with 150 million homes (or so) in the US, I'm sure houses burn down from all sorts of things - but I can say I've got a handful of these lamps, all running the 75 Watt Halogen Par-something bulb - and the only thing I see so far is that they do get rather hot. Anyway - I'll stick to the rating being half the actual limit until/ unless someone shows proof otherwise. BTW, I don't disagree with the statement that the thing will slowly deteriorate with higher heat - but again, nobody showed proof so that's just an assumption also. Still - it was a good idea to change out the plastic socket for ceramic and to move the switch to the cord - so these I will explore. |
#80
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What happens if you put 75 watt bulb in a 60 watt fixture
On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 13:59:09 -0500, "=" wrote:
Another choice is the so-called "2X" bulb that a company called ADLT announced. It gives the same light output as the old 100 watt, but draws only 50 watts and is rated for 1500 hours. That's an additional choice that we didn't have before. What are they? I assume the 72 watt replacements are halogen, but what makes these work? |
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