OT In the movies, safe-crackers are always listening to the tumblers
in the bank vault door. Sometimes they use a stethoscope.

Does that really work?

Decades ago I had a plastic toy safe, with transparent door and walls,
and it opened with a combination too. But there were no tumblers to
listen to. By turning a 2 full turns to the right and a little more
to the first number, then to the left a full turn and a little more to
the second number, and to the right to the 3rd number, the notches in
the rotating disks were aligned, and when the 3rd number was reached,
the third disk, which was a little bigger than the other two, allowed
the lock lever to move into all three notches at the same time.
Maybe I'm not clear here, but trust me, there were no intermediate
noises.

So if they can do that for a toy safe, worth no more than $5 now, why
wouldn't they do that for a bank vault?

Short answer: yes, a stethoscope is totally helpful.

I worked for a locksmith, who taught me a bit about
safes. He had electronic stethoscope, which was
beyond excellent.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"micky" wrote in message
...
OT In the movies, safe-crackers are always listening to the tumblers
in the bank vault door. Sometimes they use a stethoscope.

Does that really work?

Decades ago I had a plastic toy safe, with transparent door and walls,
and it opened with a combination too. But there were no tumblers to
listen to. By turning a 2 full turns to the right and a little more
to the first number, then to the left a full turn and a little more to
the second number, and to the right to the 3rd number, the notches in
the rotating disks were aligned, and when the 3rd number was reached,
the third disk, which was a little bigger than the other two, allowed
the lock lever to move into all three notches at the same time.
Maybe I'm not clear here, but trust me, there were no intermediate
noises.

So if they can do that for a toy safe, worth no more than $5 now, why
wouldn't they do that for a bank vault?

On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 17:45:51 -0500, micky
wrote:

OT In the movies, safe-crackers are always listening to the tumblers
in the bank vault door. Sometimes they use a stethoscope.

Does that really work?

Depends.

I've opened a floor safe with a second person. I used a pool stick for
the stethoscope. We had permission from the owner as he never even
knew how to open it.

We were young teens. He allowed us to store our slot-cars in it.

On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:42:56 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 17:45:51 -0500, micky
wrote:

OT In the movies, safe-crackers are always listening to the tumblers
in the bank vault door. Sometimes they use a stethoscope.

Does that really work?

Depends.

I've opened a floor safe with a second person. I used a pool stick for
the stethoscope. We had permission from the owner as he never even
knew how to open it.

We were young teens. He allowed us to store our slot-cars in it.

Well, to you and 'ormin, it seems like a mistake to make a safe one
can get into by listening, when it's possible and not expensive, it
sure seems, to make on where listening doesn't help. I don't get it.

On 11/25/2012 8:11 AM, micky wrote:
On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:42:56 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 17:45:51 -0500, micky
wrote:

OT In the movies, safe-crackers are always listening to the tumblers
in the bank vault door. Sometimes they use a stethoscope.

Does that really work?

Depends.

I've opened a floor safe with a second person. I used a pool stick for
the stethoscope. We had permission from the owner as he never even
knew how to open it.

We were young teens. He allowed us to store our slot-cars in it.

Well, to you and 'ormin, it seems like a mistake to make a safe one
can get into by listening, when it's possible and not expensive, it
sure seems, to make on where listening doesn't help. I don't get it.


Heck, just put a Classic Big Ben wind up alarm clock in the safe as a
click sound jammer and keep it wound. ^_^

TDD

On Nov 24, 5:45*pm, micky wrote:
OT *In the movies, safe-crackers are always listening to the tumblers
in the bank vault door. * Sometimes they use a stethoscope.

Does that really work?

Decades ago I had a plastic toy safe, with transparent door and walls,
and it opened with a combination too. * But there were no tumblers to
listen to. * By turning a 2 full turns to the right and a little more
to the first number, then to the left a full turn and a little more to
the second number, and to the right to the 3rd number, the notches in
the rotating disks were aligned, and when the 3rd number was reached,
the third disk, which was a little bigger than the other two, allowed
the lock lever to move into all three notches at the same time.
Maybe I'm not clear here, but trust me, there were no intermediate
noises.

So if they can do that for a toy safe, worth no more than $5 now, why
wouldn't they do that for a bank vault?

I would guess that it would work with some safes,
depending on how they were implemented. In your
example, if you applied pressure to the lock lever,
would you not hear a difference in sound when any
one of the rotatitng disks with a notch came up and
the edge of the slot touched the lever?

On 11/25/2012 8:53 AM, wrote:
On Nov 24, 5:45 pm, wrote:
OT In the movies, safe-crackers are always listening to the tumblers
in the bank vault door. Sometimes they use a stethoscope.

Does that really work?

Decades ago I had a plastic toy safe, with transparent door and walls,
and it opened with a combination too. But there were no tumblers to
listen to. By turning a 2 full turns to the right and a little more
to the first number, then to the left a full turn and a little more to
the second number, and to the right to the 3rd number, the notches in
the rotating disks were aligned, and when the 3rd number was reached,
the third disk, which was a little bigger than the other two, allowed
the lock lever to move into all three notches at the same time.
Maybe I'm not clear here, but trust me, there were no intermediate
noises.

So if they can do that for a toy safe, worth no more than $5 now, why
wouldn't they do that for a bank vault?

I would guess that it would work with some safes,
depending on how they were implemented. In your
example, if you applied pressure to the lock lever,
would you not hear a difference in sound when any
one of the rotatitng disks with a notch came up and
the edge of the slot touched the lever?

That is how I understand stethoscopes work.

I doubt it works on a good dial lock. One way to defeat it on a crappy
lock is to have the driven disk kind of like a coarse gear. And for
smaller modern safes the bolt is withdrawn by the dial. There is no
handle that applies pressure against the disks.

micky wrote:
OT In the movies, safe-crackers are always listening to the tumblers
in the bank vault door. Sometimes they use a stethoscope.

Does that really work?


Why bother when it is so easy to make nitroglycerine?


--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net

In article , NONONOmisc07
@bigfoot.com says...

OT In the movies, safe-crackers are always listening to the tumblers
in the bank vault door. Sometimes they use a stethoscope.

Does that really work?


In general Hollywood is not very understanding of technical things or
REALITY. The people who write those movies can't change a tire on their
car - city people.

For example as shown in movies, a heart defibrillator does NOT start a
stopped heart!...
http://www.cracked.com/article/18363...chniques-from-
movies-that-can-kill-you/

And I have yet to see a computer which makes the noises "movie
computers" do.

Also they show crooks jumping a couple of wires on a burglar alarm
and then it is disabled. This is NOT going to happen in real life. The
people who work at the alarm companies could not do this, let alone a
burglar.

Then safes and vaults are designed differently and are of different
quality so far as their ability to deter thieves. The better of these
are "U.L." rated. And the better rated take more "time" to break into.

At the bottom of the following link it says...

["These requirements cover combination locks intended for attachment on
doors of safes, chests, vaults, and the like, to provide a means of
locking the boltwork against unauthorized opening. These requirements
are intended to test the ability of combination locks to resist
unauthorized opening of the combination locks by sense of sight, touch,
or hearing. Combination locks covered by these requirements may or may
not have integral protection against entry by force."]

http://www.klsecurity.com/ul_fire_rating.htm

On 11-25-2012 12:49, Bill wrote:
And I have yet to see a computer which makes the noises "movie
computers" do.

Or has ten zillion blinking lights and parts that explode/catch fire
when you type in an insoluble problem.

--
Wes Groleau

Ostracism: A practice of sticking your head in the sand.

I'll explode if I have any more thanksgiving pi.

There seems to be no end.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Wes Groleau" wrote in message
...
On 11-25-2012 12:49, Bill wrote:
And I have yet to see a computer which makes the noises "movie
computers" do.

Or has ten zillion blinking lights and parts that explode/catch fire
when you type in an insoluble problem.

--
Wes Groleau

Ostracism: A practice of sticking your head in the sand.

On Mon, 26 Nov 2012 00:56:31 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 12:30:09 -0500, "dadiOH"
wrote:

micky wrote:
OT In the movies, safe-crackers are always listening to the tumblers
in the bank vault door. Sometimes they use a stethoscope.

Does that really work?


Why bother when it is so easy to make nitroglycerine?

It is easy to make nitroglycerine, the trick is not setting it off
while making it.

I often wonder how long a regular residential or medium price safe
would hold up to a cutoff saw with a diamond blade.

or the harbor freight "twitchin' tool" [TM by Heybub].

Jim

On Nov 25, 12:49*pm, Bill wrote:
In article , NONONOmisc07
@bigfoot.com says...



OT *In the movies, safe-crackers are always listening to the tumblers
in the bank vault door. * Sometimes they use a stethoscope.

Does that really work?

In general Hollywood is not very understanding of technical things or
REALITY. The people who write those movies can't change a tire on their
car - city people.

For example as shown in movies, a heart defibrillator does NOT start a
stopped heart!...http://www.cracked.com/article/18363...chniques-from-
movies-that-can-kill-you/

What's a crock is the premise of that link. In my experiences of
watching movies, for example, they don't use CPR on someone
who's clearly been dead for a day. They use it on anyone where
there appears a chance that it will work. Are you saying for
example, that lifeguards or first responders would NOT perform
CPR on someone who was missing for 15 mins and then
found in the surf?

And as for the defibrillator, again, I don't see it being used
to try to revive someone dead for a day. It's used for the most
part like it is in real life. And no claim in any of the movies I've
seen has been specific to the point that they talk about exactly
how it works.

There are indeed lots of stuff in movies that is nonsense.
But this link sure isn't good at finding it. Half of them are
wrong.







And I have yet to see a computer which makes the noises "movie
computers" do.

Also they show crooks jumping a couple of wires on a burglar alarm
and then it is disabled. This is NOT going to happen in real life. The
people who work at the alarm companies could not do this, let alone a
burglar.

Then safes and vaults are designed differently and are of different
quality so far as their ability to deter thieves. The better of these
are "U.L." rated. And the better rated take more "time" to break into.

At the bottom of the following link it says...

["These requirements cover combination locks intended for attachment on
doors of safes, chests, vaults, and the like, to provide a means of
locking the boltwork against unauthorized opening. These requirements
are intended to test the ability of combination locks to resist
unauthorized opening of the combination locks by sense of sight, touch,
or hearing. Combination locks covered by these requirements may or may
not have integral protection against entry by force."]

http://www.klsecurity.com/ul_fire_rating.htm

In article ,
says...

I often wonder how long a regular residential or medium price safe
would hold up to a cutoff saw with a diamond blade.

With many of those home safes, they can simply carry it out of the house
and take their sweet time breaking into it elsewhere. So the weight of
the safe or that it be encased in concrete is another factor.

Then if the safe can't be moved, a monitored burglar alarm would limit
the time they would have to break into it. And a "U.L. high security
rated" burglar alarm would be the best quality alarm.

http://www.ul.com/global/documents/c...cations/newsle
tters/fire/fsa_issue_1_2009.pdf

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 10:51:21 -0500, wrote:

On Sun, 25 Nov 2012 09:11:54 -0500, micky
wrote:

On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 16:42:56 -0800, Oren wrote:

On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 17:45:51 -0500, micky
wrote:

OT In the movies, safe-crackers are always listening to the tumblers
in the bank vault door. Sometimes they use a stethoscope.

Does that really work?

Depends.

I've opened a floor safe with a second person. I used a pool stick for
the stethoscope. We had permission from the owner as he never even
knew how to open it.

We were young teens. He allowed us to store our slot-cars in it.

Well, to you and 'ormin, it seems like a mistake to make a safe one
can get into by listening, when it's possible and not expensive, it
sure seems, to make on where listening doesn't help. I don't get it.

I have actually had an old Mosler apart retrieving a lost combination.
It was locked but open
I am not sure what you would hear. It really looked like a better
machined Master combination lock.
There were disks with slots in them and a pawl that you could cam into
the slots if they all lined up. I did not see anything that "dropped"
or otherwise indicated when a slot was under the pawl

Exactly. In the case of my toy plastic safe, the tolerances were not
fine or tight at all, and it was totallly clear that nothing happened
until the 3rd number was dialed.

and the
machining was so tight that you couldn't feel the slot until the last
one lined up.

Esactly.

I think the dial locked when you rotated the unlock
handle so you couldn't "hunt".

That sounds good. The toy safe didn't have this. ;-)