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Default Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?

On Jun 11, 12:11*am, DD_BobK wrote:
On Jun 10, 8:11*pm, Evan wrote:





On Jun 10, 10:11*pm, DD_BobK wrote:


On Jun 10, 8:09*am, Evan wrote:


On Jun 9, 2:03*pm, "HeyBub" wrote:


wrote:
I have a friend who runs a business. *Their main breaker is on the
outside of the building right along a busy back alley. *Inside the
building directly behind that main breaker is the panel with all the
individual breakers. *The box looks similar to this:
http://www.solarpanelstore.com/assets/ch_dpb222r.jpg


If you look on the bottom, there is the tab that sticks out with the
hole, which is meant for a small padlock. *The problem is that the
box, had a plastic tab. *Why the manufacturer used a plastic tab (the
rest of the box is metal), is beyond me. *It had a lock on it, but
the plastic tab broke off, and ever since people keep shutting off
the power at least once a month. *That affects all kinds of
electronic equipment inside, and disrupts business. *The business
owner is a woman who dont understand all the technical issues, she
just wants the box to be tamper proof. *I told her I'd see what can
be done, and will install something if possible.


I suggested drilling a few holes and putting a hasp on the box, with
pop rivets and padlocking it, but I tend to wonder if there is any
sort of legal requirements. *I suppose in the event of a fire, the
Fire Dept might want to shut off the power. *This makes me question
what to do. I'm also not sure who to ask locally about this? *Maybe
the power company?????


Anyone know anything about this?


One other thought was to drill a hole right below that slot and just
use a cable tie through the slot and the hole. *Anyone can cut it
off, but it might be enough to discourage them. *Right now all they
need to do is lift the cover and shut off the breaker. *At least a
cable tie would require more effort by tamperers, and still be easily
cut in an emergency.


Is this covered in the USA electrical codes? *I dont have the book.
(Are the codes available online?)


Having a locked breaker box, and a secured lock-out box, might discourage
a/c compressor coil thieves.


A lock certainly won't hinder the fire department. They'll rip the box off
the wall in a nonce if they feel like it.


Actually they won't, they will wait safely outside the
building and watch it burn until someone comes with
the keys or the power company comes and disconnects
the circuit to that building from the street... *Which ever
comes first... *Fire departments don't mess with metal
tools near live electrical equipment... *Not when the
entire area and the personnel are wet from the fire fighting
operations on scene...


Evan-


It's been so much run to have you join in the party at AHR!


If nothing else you provide comic relief.


I guess you don't know any firefighters or seen any in action up
close.
They tend not to do a lot of waiting in general.


It's that whole fire thing, little fires get bigger if left
unattended.
My money is on them not waiting for a key.


That's probably why they study & practice forceable
entry ..........with a side order of *"how to defeat padlocks".


http://www.larchmontfire.org/images/fdny_fe.pdf**(~180 pages of
forceable entry techniques)http://www.firetowntrainingspecialis...20Padlocks.pdf


Evan, spend less time writing & more time reading, even you might get
a bit smarter.


I cannot help but wonder wether you born this stupid or is it the
result of serious effort (or injury)


@DD_BobK:


You are the pot calling the kettle black...


Biggest twit on here in a while...


Fire Departments are under no obligation to
aggressively attack a fire -- so if entry to the
building is unsafe because of an electrical
hazard, they can still put water on the flames
through the window and door openings and/or
douse closely abutting structures to prevent
spread of the flames...


Spend some time learning about arc flash
and other industrial accidents... *Even a
small one can permanently disable or kill
you...


Evan-

You are the most dangerous type of contributor to AHR....
you have no idea when you;re out of your depth.

Which, based on your posting, is most of the time.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


You mean like when he told us all that it's illegal to
vent nitrogen from an HVAC system to the atmosphere
and that you must instead capture it? He still claims
that's true and I've yet to see a reference.

If pulling a meter is so dangerous, going to cause
an arc over, etc. you would think there would be
dead utility workers all over the place. They pull
them every day. Exactly what is going to be so
special about their method as opposed to a fire
fighter doing it?
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Posts: 2,907
Default Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?

On 6/11/2012 9:16 AM, wrote:
On Jun 11, 12:11 am, wrote:
On Jun 10, 8:11 pm, wrote:





On Jun 10, 10:11 pm, wrote:


On Jun 10, 8:09 am, wrote:


On Jun 9, 2:03 pm, wrote:


wrote:
I have a friend who runs a business. Their main breaker is on the
outside of the building right along a busy back alley. Inside the
building directly behind that main breaker is the panel with all the
individual breakers. The box looks similar to this:
http://www.solarpanelstore.com/assets/ch_dpb222r.jpg

If you look on the bottom, there is the tab that sticks out with the
hole, which is meant for a small padlock. The problem is that the
box, had a plastic tab. Why the manufacturer used a plastic tab (the
rest of the box is metal), is beyond me. It had a lock on it, but
the plastic tab broke off, and ever since people keep shutting off
the power at least once a month. That affects all kinds of
electronic equipment inside, and disrupts business. The business
owner is a woman who dont understand all the technical issues, she
just wants the box to be tamper proof. I told her I'd see what can
be done, and will install something if possible.


I suggested drilling a few holes and putting a hasp on the box, with
pop rivets and padlocking it, but I tend to wonder if there is any
sort of legal requirements. I suppose in the event of a fire, the
Fire Dept might want to shut off the power. This makes me question
what to do. I'm also not sure who to ask locally about this? Maybe
the power company?????


Anyone know anything about this?


One other thought was to drill a hole right below that slot and just
use a cable tie through the slot and the hole. Anyone can cut it
off, but it might be enough to discourage them. Right now all they
need to do is lift the cover and shut off the breaker. At least a
cable tie would require more effort by tamperers, and still be easily
cut in an emergency.


Is this covered in the USA electrical codes? I dont have the book.
(Are the codes available online?)


Having a locked breaker box, and a secured lock-out box, might discourage
a/c compressor coil thieves.


A lock certainly won't hinder the fire department. They'll rip the box off
the wall in a nonce if they feel like it.


Actually they won't, they will wait safely outside the
building and watch it burn until someone comes with
the keys or the power company comes and disconnects
the circuit to that building from the street... Which ever
comes first... Fire departments don't mess with metal
tools near live electrical equipment... Not when the
entire area and the personnel are wet from the fire fighting
operations on scene...


Evan-


It's been so much run to have you join in the party at AHR!


If nothing else you provide comic relief.


I guess you don't know any firefighters or seen any in action up
close.
They tend not to do a lot of waiting in general.


It's that whole fire thing, little fires get bigger if left
unattended.
My money is on them not waiting for a key.


That's probably why they study& practice forceable
entry ..........with a side order of "how to defeat padlocks".


http://www.larchmontfire.org/images/fdny_fe.pdf (~180 pages of
forceable entry techniques)http://www.firetowntrainingspecialis...20Padlocks.pdf


Evan, spend less time writing& more time reading, even you might get
a bit smarter.


I cannot help but wonder wether you born this stupid or is it the
result of serious effort (or injury)


@DD_BobK:


You are the pot calling the kettle black...


Biggest twit on here in a while...


Fire Departments are under no obligation to
aggressively attack a fire -- so if entry to the
building is unsafe because of an electrical
hazard, they can still put water on the flames
through the window and door openings and/or
douse closely abutting structures to prevent
spread of the flames...


Spend some time learning about arc flash
and other industrial accidents... Even a
small one can permanently disable or kill
you...


Evan-

You are the most dangerous type of contributor to AHR....
you have no idea when you;re out of your depth.

Which, based on your posting, is most of the time.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


You mean like when he told us all that it's illegal to
vent nitrogen from an HVAC system to the atmosphere
and that you must instead capture it? He still claims
that's true and I've yet to see a reference.

If pulling a meter is so dangerous, going to cause
an arc over, etc. you would think there would be
dead utility workers all over the place. They pull
them every day. Exactly what is going to be so
special about their method as opposed to a fire
fighter doing it?



If utility workers pull them under load as in the case of a meter
swapout they install jumpers on the horn bypass tabs or close the less
common internal bypass switch on the meter base.

In the case of an emergency with the exception of operating a normal
disconnect switch you won't find any fire fighters in my area touching
electrical equipment. They notify the utility and wait if they feel it
is unsafe to proceed.

Then the utility guy arrives and locates the switches on the primary
lines ahead of the distribution transformer and opens them.

In the case of 480 services the large local utility for our area hasn't
allowed direct metering for over 20 years for safety reasons.
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Default Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?

On 6/9/2012 2:04 PM, Evan wrote:


It sounds more like the business whose electrical service is
arranged in this manner got hosed by the contractor which
installed that particular style of enclosure given its location
and the fact that it can be tampered with...



Probably not. Unfused service lines must be as short as possible after
entering the building. It isn't all that unusual in commercial
occupancies to have the main panel located some distance inside so the
service lines need to be fused before that location.



You should look at what possible replacements you could
install which would be more tamper resistant... Installing
an accessory padlock hasp on the particular enclosure
you have now might only result in damage to the
enclosure the next time the pranksters want to play at
flipping the switch...

Is that the only means of service disconnect ?
Is the meter can located adjacent to it ?
Is the breaker panel inside main lug only or does it
have an additional means of disconnect {a main breaker)
also ?

It seems like the question to ask is why that specific
type of equipment was installed... Was it required
by the AHJ or was it just the best the contractor
who installed it could cobble together ?


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Default Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?

On Jun 11, 9:58*am, George wrote:
On 6/11/2012 9:16 AM, wrote:





On Jun 11, 12:11 am, *wrote:
On Jun 10, 8:11 pm, *wrote:


On Jun 10, 10:11 pm, *wrote:


On Jun 10, 8:09 am, *wrote:


On Jun 9, 2:03 pm, *wrote:


wrote:
I have a friend who runs a business. *Their main breaker is on the
outside of the building right along a busy back alley. *Inside the
building directly behind that main breaker is the panel with all the
individual breakers. *The box looks similar to this:
http://www.solarpanelstore.com/assets/ch_dpb222r.jpg


If you look on the bottom, there is the tab that sticks out with the
hole, which is meant for a small padlock. *The problem is that the
box, had a plastic tab. *Why the manufacturer used a plastic tab (the
rest of the box is metal), is beyond me. *It had a lock on it, but
the plastic tab broke off, and ever since people keep shutting off
the power at least once a month. *That affects all kinds of
electronic equipment inside, and disrupts business. *The business
owner is a woman who dont understand all the technical issues, she
just wants the box to be tamper proof. *I told her I'd see what can
be done, and will install something if possible.


I suggested drilling a few holes and putting a hasp on the box, with
pop rivets and padlocking it, but I tend to wonder if there is any
sort of legal requirements. *I suppose in the event of a fire, the
Fire Dept might want to shut off the power. *This makes me question
what to do. I'm also not sure who to ask locally about this? *Maybe
the power company?????


Anyone know anything about this?


One other thought was to drill a hole right below that slot and just
use a cable tie through the slot and the hole. *Anyone can cut it
off, but it might be enough to discourage them. *Right now all they
need to do is lift the cover and shut off the breaker. *At least a
cable tie would require more effort by tamperers, and still be easily
cut in an emergency.


Is this covered in the USA electrical codes? *I dont have the book.
(Are the codes available online?)


Having a locked breaker box, and a secured lock-out box, might discourage
a/c compressor coil thieves.


A lock certainly won't hinder the fire department. They'll rip the box off
the wall in a nonce if they feel like it.


Actually they won't, they will wait safely outside the
building and watch it burn until someone comes with
the keys or the power company comes and disconnects
the circuit to that building from the street... *Which ever
comes first... *Fire departments don't mess with metal
tools near live electrical equipment... *Not when the
entire area and the personnel are wet from the fire fighting
operations on scene...


Evan-


It's been so much run to have you join in the party at AHR!


If nothing else you provide comic relief.


I guess you don't know any firefighters or seen any in action up
close.
They tend not to do a lot of waiting in general.


It's that whole fire thing, little fires get bigger if left
unattended.
My money is on them not waiting for a key.


That's probably why they study& *practice forceable
entry ..........with a side order of *"how to defeat padlocks".


http://www.larchmontfire.org/images/fdny_fe.pdf*(~180 pages of
forceable entry techniques)http://www.firetowntrainingspecialis...20Padlocks.pdf


Evan, spend less time writing& *more time reading, even you might get
a bit smarter.


I cannot help but wonder wether you born this stupid or is it the
result of serious effort (or injury)


@DD_BobK:


You are the pot calling the kettle black...


Biggest twit on here in a while...


Fire Departments are under no obligation to
aggressively attack a fire -- so if entry to the
building is unsafe because of an electrical
hazard, they can still put water on the flames
through the window and door openings and/or
douse closely abutting structures to prevent
spread of the flames...


Spend some time learning about arc flash
and other industrial accidents... *Even a
small one can permanently disable or kill
you...


Evan-


You are the most dangerous type of contributor to AHR....
you have no idea when you;re out of your depth.


Which, based on your posting, is most of the time.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


You mean like when he told us all that it's illegal to
vent nitrogen from an HVAC system to the atmosphere
and that you must instead capture it? *He still claims
that's true and I've yet to see a reference.


If pulling a meter is so dangerous, going to cause
an arc over, etc. you would think there would be
dead utility workers all over the place. *They pull
them every day. *Exactly what is going to be so
special about their method as opposed to a fire
fighter doing it?


If utility workers pull them under load as in the case of a meter
swapout they install jumpers on the horn bypass tabs or close the less
common internal bypass switch on the meter base.

In the case of an emergency with the exception of operating a normal
disconnect switch you won't find any fire fighters in my area touching
electrical equipment. They notify the utility and wait if they feel it
is unsafe to proceed.


So, all your firefighters are pussies? What exactly is so
dangerous about pulling a meter? What is the
utility crew going to do differently than a firefighter would
do pulling a meter on a house or small business? They
show up, cut seal, pull out meter.

We have firefighters running into burning houses to save
people or cats, but we're to believe pulling a meter is
more dangerous?

Geez




Then the utility guy arrives and locates the switches on the primary
lines ahead of the distribution transformer and opens them.

In the case of 480 services the large local utility for our area hasn't
allowed direct metering for over 20 years for safety reasons.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


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Default Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?

John Grabowski wrote:
. . . . , I am interested in the same question as the
OP
about whether it is okay to put a lock on this outside main cutoff.


*You can go ahead and put padlocks on the outside disconnects as long
as each tenant will receive a key. There are special padlocks that
are made to be cut with a bolt cutter that I have seen on fire
sprinkler valves and fence gates to electrical equipment. The locks
have a notch cut into them making it easier to cut. I think
McMaster-Carr sells them.


Thanks. That's good to know. If I do end up putting locks on, I'll either
get cheap little ones that probably aren't even made with hardened steel or
I'll look for the type that you mentioned via McMaster-Carr etc.




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Default Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?

On 6/11/2012 9:40 AM, wrote:
On Jun 11, 9:58 am, wrote:
On 6/11/2012 9:16 AM, wrote:





On Jun 11, 12:11 am, wrote:
On Jun 10, 8:11 pm, wrote:


On Jun 10, 10:11 pm, wrote:


On Jun 10, 8:09 am, wrote:


On Jun 9, 2:03 pm, wrote:


wrote:
I have a friend who runs a business. Their main breaker is on the
outside of the building right along a busy back alley. Inside the
building directly behind that main breaker is the panel with all the
individual breakers. The box looks similar to this:
http://www.solarpanelstore.com/assets/ch_dpb222r.jpg

If you look on the bottom, there is the tab that sticks out with the
hole, which is meant for a small padlock. The problem is that the
box, had a plastic tab. Why the manufacturer used a plastic tab (the
rest of the box is metal), is beyond me. It had a lock on it, but
the plastic tab broke off, and ever since people keep shutting off
the power at least once a month. That affects all kinds of
electronic equipment inside, and disrupts business. The business
owner is a woman who dont understand all the technical issues, she
just wants the box to be tamper proof. I told her I'd see what can
be done, and will install something if possible.


I suggested drilling a few holes and putting a hasp on the box, with
pop rivets and padlocking it, but I tend to wonder if there is any
sort of legal requirements. I suppose in the event of a fire, the
Fire Dept might want to shut off the power. This makes me question
what to do. I'm also not sure who to ask locally about this? Maybe
the power company?????


Anyone know anything about this?


One other thought was to drill a hole right below that slot and just
use a cable tie through the slot and the hole. Anyone can cut it
off, but it might be enough to discourage them. Right now all they
need to do is lift the cover and shut off the breaker. At least a
cable tie would require more effort by tamperers, and still be easily
cut in an emergency.


Is this covered in the USA electrical codes? I dont have the book.
(Are the codes available online?)


Having a locked breaker box, and a secured lock-out box, might discourage
a/c compressor coil thieves.


A lock certainly won't hinder the fire department. They'll rip the box off
the wall in a nonce if they feel like it.


Actually they won't, they will wait safely outside the
building and watch it burn until someone comes with
the keys or the power company comes and disconnects
the circuit to that building from the street... Which ever
comes first... Fire departments don't mess with metal
tools near live electrical equipment... Not when the
entire area and the personnel are wet from the fire fighting
operations on scene...


Evan-


It's been so much run to have you join in the party at AHR!


If nothing else you provide comic relief.


I guess you don't know any firefighters or seen any in action up
close.
They tend not to do a lot of waiting in general.


It's that whole fire thing, little fires get bigger if left
unattended.
My money is on them not waiting for a key.


That's probably why they study& practice forceable
entry ..........with a side order of "how to defeat padlocks".


http://www.larchmontfire.org/images/fdny_fe.pdf (~180 pages of
forceable entry techniques)http://www.firetowntrainingspecialis...20Padlocks.pdf


Evan, spend less time writing& more time reading, even you might get
a bit smarter.


I cannot help but wonder wether you born this stupid or is it the
result of serious effort (or injury)


@DD_BobK:


You are the pot calling the kettle black...


Biggest twit on here in a while...


Fire Departments are under no obligation to
aggressively attack a fire -- so if entry to the
building is unsafe because of an electrical
hazard, they can still put water on the flames
through the window and door openings and/or
douse closely abutting structures to prevent
spread of the flames...


Spend some time learning about arc flash
and other industrial accidents... Even a
small one can permanently disable or kill
you...


Evan-


You are the most dangerous type of contributor to AHR....
you have no idea when you;re out of your depth.


Which, based on your posting, is most of the time.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


You mean like when he told us all that it's illegal to
vent nitrogen from an HVAC system to the atmosphere
and that you must instead capture it? He still claims
that's true and I've yet to see a reference.


If pulling a meter is so dangerous, going to cause
an arc over, etc. you would think there would be
dead utility workers all over the place. They pull
them every day. Exactly what is going to be so
special about their method as opposed to a fire
fighter doing it?


If utility workers pull them under load as in the case of a meter
swapout they install jumpers on the horn bypass tabs or close the less
common internal bypass switch on the meter base.

In the case of an emergency with the exception of operating a normal
disconnect switch you won't find any fire fighters in my area touching
electrical equipment. They notify the utility and wait if they feel it
is unsafe to proceed.


So, all your firefighters are pussies? What exactly is so
dangerous about pulling a meter? What is the
utility crew going to do differently than a firefighter would
do pulling a meter on a house or small business? They
show up, cut seal, pull out meter.

We have firefighters running into burning houses to save
people or cats, but we're to believe pulling a meter is
more dangerous?

Geez




Then the utility guy arrives and locates the switches on the primary
lines ahead of the distribution transformer and opens them.

In the case of 480 services the large local utility for our area hasn't
allowed direct metering for over 20 years for safety reasons.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



It's kind of like changing a v-belt. You just don't stick your fingers
where they don't belong. I've pulled my own meter many times. I just
don't stick my fingers on the terminals after it's out. duh.

--
Steve Barker
remove the "not" from my address to email
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Default Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?

Evan wrote:


Fire Departments are under no obligation to
aggressively attack a fire -- so if entry to the
building is unsafe because of an electrical
hazard, they can still put water on the flames
through the window and door openings and/or
douse closely abutting structures to prevent
spread of the flames...

Spend some time learning about arc flash
and other industrial accidents... Even a
small one can permanently disable or kill
you...


I was a volunteer fireman. We pop the meter out. 10 seconds. As safe as
anything can be in that business.
-- Doug
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Posts: 8,589
Default Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?

On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:09:05 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote:

On 6/11/2012 9:40 AM, wrote:
On Jun 11, 9:58 am, wrote:
On 6/11/2012 9:16 AM, wrote:





On Jun 11, 12:11 am, wrote:
On Jun 10, 8:11 pm, wrote:

On Jun 10, 10:11 pm, wrote:

On Jun 10, 8:09 am, wrote:

On Jun 9, 2:03 pm, wrote:

wrote:
I have a friend who runs a business. Their main breaker is on the
outside of the building right along a busy back alley. Inside the
building directly behind that main breaker is the panel with all the
individual breakers. The box looks similar to this:
http://www.solarpanelstore.com/assets/ch_dpb222r.jpg

If you look on the bottom, there is the tab that sticks out with the
hole, which is meant for a small padlock. The problem is that the
box, had a plastic tab. Why the manufacturer used a plastic tab (the
rest of the box is metal), is beyond me. It had a lock on it, but
the plastic tab broke off, and ever since people keep shutting off
the power at least once a month. That affects all kinds of
electronic equipment inside, and disrupts business. The business
owner is a woman who dont understand all the technical issues, she
just wants the box to be tamper proof. I told her I'd see what can
be done, and will install something if possible.

I suggested drilling a few holes and putting a hasp on the box, with
pop rivets and padlocking it, but I tend to wonder if there is any
sort of legal requirements. I suppose in the event of a fire, the
Fire Dept might want to shut off the power. This makes me question
what to do. I'm also not sure who to ask locally about this? Maybe
the power company?????

Anyone know anything about this?

One other thought was to drill a hole right below that slot and just
use a cable tie through the slot and the hole. Anyone can cut it
off, but it might be enough to discourage them. Right now all they
need to do is lift the cover and shut off the breaker. At least a
cable tie would require more effort by tamperers, and still be easily
cut in an emergency.

Is this covered in the USA electrical codes? I dont have the book.
(Are the codes available online?)

Having a locked breaker box, and a secured lock-out box, might discourage
a/c compressor coil thieves.

A lock certainly won't hinder the fire department. They'll rip the box off
the wall in a nonce if they feel like it.

Actually they won't, they will wait safely outside the
building and watch it burn until someone comes with
the keys or the power company comes and disconnects
the circuit to that building from the street... Which ever
comes first... Fire departments don't mess with metal
tools near live electrical equipment... Not when the
entire area and the personnel are wet from the fire fighting
operations on scene...

Evan-

It's been so much run to have you join in the party at AHR!

If nothing else you provide comic relief.

I guess you don't know any firefighters or seen any in action up
close.
They tend not to do a lot of waiting in general.

It's that whole fire thing, little fires get bigger if left
unattended.
My money is on them not waiting for a key.

That's probably why they study& practice forceable
entry ..........with a side order of "how to defeat padlocks".

http://www.larchmontfire.org/images/fdny_fe.pdf (~180 pages of
forceable entry techniques)http://www.firetowntrainingspecialis...20Padlocks.pdf

Evan, spend less time writing& more time reading, even you might get
a bit smarter.

I cannot help but wonder wether you born this stupid or is it the
result of serious effort (or injury)

@DD_BobK:

You are the pot calling the kettle black...

Biggest twit on here in a while...

Fire Departments are under no obligation to
aggressively attack a fire -- so if entry to the
building is unsafe because of an electrical
hazard, they can still put water on the flames
through the window and door openings and/or
douse closely abutting structures to prevent
spread of the flames...

Spend some time learning about arc flash
and other industrial accidents... Even a
small one can permanently disable or kill
you...

Evan-

You are the most dangerous type of contributor to AHR....
you have no idea when you;re out of your depth.

Which, based on your posting, is most of the time.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You mean like when he told us all that it's illegal to
vent nitrogen from an HVAC system to the atmosphere
and that you must instead capture it? He still claims
that's true and I've yet to see a reference.

If pulling a meter is so dangerous, going to cause
an arc over, etc. you would think there would be
dead utility workers all over the place. They pull
them every day. Exactly what is going to be so
special about their method as opposed to a fire
fighter doing it?

If utility workers pull them under load as in the case of a meter
swapout they install jumpers on the horn bypass tabs or close the less
common internal bypass switch on the meter base.

In the case of an emergency with the exception of operating a normal
disconnect switch you won't find any fire fighters in my area touching
electrical equipment. They notify the utility and wait if they feel it
is unsafe to proceed.


So, all your firefighters are pussies? What exactly is so
dangerous about pulling a meter? What is the
utility crew going to do differently than a firefighter would
do pulling a meter on a house or small business? They
show up, cut seal, pull out meter.

We have firefighters running into burning houses to save
people or cats, but we're to believe pulling a meter is
more dangerous?

Geez




Then the utility guy arrives and locates the switches on the primary
lines ahead of the distribution transformer and opens them.

In the case of 480 services the large local utility for our area hasn't
allowed direct metering for over 20 years for safety reasons.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



It's kind of like changing a v-belt. You just don't stick your fingers
where they don't belong. I've pulled my own meter many times. I just
don't stick my fingers on the terminals after it's out. duh.


Yeah, you'd think firemen would be at least that smart. They are trained for
the job, after all.

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Default Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?

On Saturday, June 9, 2012 4:16:49 AM UTC-4, (unknown) wrote:
I'm also not sure who to ask locally about this? Maybe the power
company?????


How about the landlord? She runs a business so obviously this is commercial space. If the space is leased, the breaker access is the responsibility of the landlord.
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Default Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?

On Jun 11, 12:54*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:58:43 -0400, George
wrote:

If utility workers pull them under load as in the case of a meter
swapout they install jumpers on the horn bypass tabs or close the less
common internal bypass switch on the meter base.


Nope, they just yank them. I watched the guy do mine and 2 neighbors.


I have pulled a meter several times. its no biggie at all.

one for a broken fuse stuck in its socket, one for upgrading the main
panel, it needed a extra ground bar and tighten some loose stuff, one
had a fried breaker and i didnt want any power at the main.

i called the power company after each one was complete and the power
company didnt care....

they just resealed the meter when they got around to it


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Default Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?

On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:58:43 -0400, George
wrote:

On 6/11/2012 9:16 AM, wrote:
On Jun 11, 12:11 am, wrote:
On Jun 10, 8:11 pm, wrote:





On Jun 10, 10:11 pm, wrote:

On Jun 10, 8:09 am, wrote:

On Jun 9, 2:03 pm, wrote:

wrote:
I have a friend who runs a business. Their main breaker is on the
outside of the building right along a busy back alley. Inside the
building directly behind that main breaker is the panel with all the
individual breakers. The box looks similar to this:
http://www.solarpanelstore.com/assets/ch_dpb222r.jpg

If you look on the bottom, there is the tab that sticks out with the
hole, which is meant for a small padlock. The problem is that the
box, had a plastic tab. Why the manufacturer used a plastic tab (the
rest of the box is metal), is beyond me. It had a lock on it, but
the plastic tab broke off, and ever since people keep shutting off
the power at least once a month. That affects all kinds of
electronic equipment inside, and disrupts business. The business
owner is a woman who dont understand all the technical issues, she
just wants the box to be tamper proof. I told her I'd see what can
be done, and will install something if possible.

I suggested drilling a few holes and putting a hasp on the box, with
pop rivets and padlocking it, but I tend to wonder if there is any
sort of legal requirements. I suppose in the event of a fire, the
Fire Dept might want to shut off the power. This makes me question
what to do. I'm also not sure who to ask locally about this? Maybe
the power company?????

Anyone know anything about this?

One other thought was to drill a hole right below that slot and just
use a cable tie through the slot and the hole. Anyone can cut it
off, but it might be enough to discourage them. Right now all they
need to do is lift the cover and shut off the breaker. At least a
cable tie would require more effort by tamperers, and still be easily
cut in an emergency.

Is this covered in the USA electrical codes? I dont have the book.
(Are the codes available online?)

Having a locked breaker box, and a secured lock-out box, might discourage
a/c compressor coil thieves.

A lock certainly won't hinder the fire department. They'll rip the box off
the wall in a nonce if they feel like it.

Actually they won't, they will wait safely outside the
building and watch it burn until someone comes with
the keys or the power company comes and disconnects
the circuit to that building from the street... Which ever
comes first... Fire departments don't mess with metal
tools near live electrical equipment... Not when the
entire area and the personnel are wet from the fire fighting
operations on scene...

Evan-

It's been so much run to have you join in the party at AHR!

If nothing else you provide comic relief.

I guess you don't know any firefighters or seen any in action up
close.
They tend not to do a lot of waiting in general.

It's that whole fire thing, little fires get bigger if left
unattended.
My money is on them not waiting for a key.

That's probably why they study& practice forceable
entry ..........with a side order of "how to defeat padlocks".

http://www.larchmontfire.org/images/fdny_fe.pdf (~180 pages of
forceable entry techniques)http://www.firetowntrainingspecialis...20Padlocks.pdf

Evan, spend less time writing& more time reading, even you might get
a bit smarter.

I cannot help but wonder wether you born this stupid or is it the
result of serious effort (or injury)

@DD_BobK:

You are the pot calling the kettle black...

Biggest twit on here in a while...

Fire Departments are under no obligation to
aggressively attack a fire -- so if entry to the
building is unsafe because of an electrical
hazard, they can still put water on the flames
through the window and door openings and/or
douse closely abutting structures to prevent
spread of the flames...

Spend some time learning about arc flash
and other industrial accidents... Even a
small one can permanently disable or kill
you...

Evan-

You are the most dangerous type of contributor to AHR....
you have no idea when you;re out of your depth.

Which, based on your posting, is most of the time.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


You mean like when he told us all that it's illegal to
vent nitrogen from an HVAC system to the atmosphere
and that you must instead capture it? He still claims
that's true and I've yet to see a reference.

If pulling a meter is so dangerous, going to cause
an arc over, etc. you would think there would be
dead utility workers all over the place. They pull
them every day. Exactly what is going to be so
special about their method as opposed to a fire
fighter doing it?



If utility workers pull them under load as in the case of a meter
swapout they install jumpers on the horn bypass tabs or close the less
common internal bypass switch on the meter base.

How are they going to do that without opening the meter base? When
they swapped mine out for the smart meter they just popped the seal,
yanked the meter, and popped the new meter in. According to my UPS
record the house was without power for less than 3 seconds. And the
meter base was NOT opened, nor was power disconnected in any other
way.

In the case of an emergency with the exception of operating a normal
disconnect switch you won't find any fire fighters in my area touching
electrical equipment. They notify the utility and wait if they feel it
is unsafe to proceed.

Then the utility guy arrives and locates the switches on the primary
lines ahead of the distribution transformer and opens them.

In the case of 480 services the large local utility for our area hasn't
allowed direct metering for over 20 years for safety reasons.


Likely a totally different situation on higher voltage or 3 phase
services.
ALL of our residential services in my area are underground, so they
can't clip wires or pull pole fuses.

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Default Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?

George wrote:


If utility workers pull them under load as in the case of a meter
swapout they install jumpers on the horn bypass tabs or close the less
common internal bypass switch on the meter base.

In the case of an emergency with the exception of operating a normal
disconnect switch you won't find any fire fighters in my area touching
electrical equipment. They notify the utility and wait if they feel it
is unsafe to proceed.

Then the utility guy arrives and locates the switches on the primary
lines ahead of the distribution transformer and opens them.

In the case of 480 services the large local utility for our area
hasn't allowed direct metering for over 20 years for safety reasons.


Boy, you must have a REALLY strong firefighter's union!

Do they wait for the public works department to turn on the fire plugs?

If my house is at risk because the firemen were too pussified (or unionized)
to turn off the power next door so they could douse my neighbor's fire, I'd
be alarmed.

In an emergency, it's easy. They use something that looks like limb pruning
shears on a fiberglass pole to cut the primaries. Job done.

Sorry about your neighborhood.



  #53   Report Post  
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Posts: 2,907
Default Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?

On 6/11/2012 2:51 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:58:43 -0400,
wrote:

On 6/11/2012 9:16 AM,
wrote:
On Jun 11, 12:11 am, wrote:
On Jun 10, 8:11 pm, wrote:





On Jun 10, 10:11 pm, wrote:

On Jun 10, 8:09 am, wrote:

On Jun 9, 2:03 pm, wrote:

wrote:
I have a friend who runs a business. Their main breaker is on the
outside of the building right along a busy back alley. Inside the
building directly behind that main breaker is the panel with all the
individual breakers. The box looks similar to this:
http://www.solarpanelstore.com/assets/ch_dpb222r.jpg

If you look on the bottom, there is the tab that sticks out with the
hole, which is meant for a small padlock. The problem is that the
box, had a plastic tab. Why the manufacturer used a plastic tab (the
rest of the box is metal), is beyond me. It had a lock on it, but
the plastic tab broke off, and ever since people keep shutting off
the power at least once a month. That affects all kinds of
electronic equipment inside, and disrupts business. The business
owner is a woman who dont understand all the technical issues, she
just wants the box to be tamper proof. I told her I'd see what can
be done, and will install something if possible.

I suggested drilling a few holes and putting a hasp on the box, with
pop rivets and padlocking it, but I tend to wonder if there is any
sort of legal requirements. I suppose in the event of a fire, the
Fire Dept might want to shut off the power. This makes me question
what to do. I'm also not sure who to ask locally about this? Maybe
the power company?????

Anyone know anything about this?

One other thought was to drill a hole right below that slot and just
use a cable tie through the slot and the hole. Anyone can cut it
off, but it might be enough to discourage them. Right now all they
need to do is lift the cover and shut off the breaker. At least a
cable tie would require more effort by tamperers, and still be easily
cut in an emergency.

Is this covered in the USA electrical codes? I dont have the book.
(Are the codes available online?)

Having a locked breaker box, and a secured lock-out box, might discourage
a/c compressor coil thieves.

A lock certainly won't hinder the fire department. They'll rip the box off
the wall in a nonce if they feel like it.

Actually they won't, they will wait safely outside the
building and watch it burn until someone comes with
the keys or the power company comes and disconnects
the circuit to that building from the street... Which ever
comes first... Fire departments don't mess with metal
tools near live electrical equipment... Not when the
entire area and the personnel are wet from the fire fighting
operations on scene...

Evan-

It's been so much run to have you join in the party at AHR!

If nothing else you provide comic relief.

I guess you don't know any firefighters or seen any in action up
close.
They tend not to do a lot of waiting in general.

It's that whole fire thing, little fires get bigger if left
unattended.
My money is on them not waiting for a key.

That's probably why they study& practice forceable
entry ..........with a side order of "how to defeat padlocks".

http://www.larchmontfire.org/images/fdny_fe.pdf (~180 pages of
forceable entry techniques)http://www.firetowntrainingspecialis...20Padlocks.pdf

Evan, spend less time writing& more time reading, even you might get
a bit smarter.

I cannot help but wonder wether you born this stupid or is it the
result of serious effort (or injury)

@DD_BobK:

You are the pot calling the kettle black...

Biggest twit on here in a while...

Fire Departments are under no obligation to
aggressively attack a fire -- so if entry to the
building is unsafe because of an electrical
hazard, they can still put water on the flames
through the window and door openings and/or
douse closely abutting structures to prevent
spread of the flames...

Spend some time learning about arc flash
and other industrial accidents... Even a
small one can permanently disable or kill
you...

Evan-

You are the most dangerous type of contributor to AHR....
you have no idea when you;re out of your depth.

Which, based on your posting, is most of the time.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You mean like when he told us all that it's illegal to
vent nitrogen from an HVAC system to the atmosphere
and that you must instead capture it? He still claims
that's true and I've yet to see a reference.

If pulling a meter is so dangerous, going to cause
an arc over, etc. you would think there would be
dead utility workers all over the place. They pull
them every day. Exactly what is going to be so
special about their method as opposed to a fire
fighter doing it?



If utility workers pull them under load as in the case of a meter
swapout they install jumpers on the horn bypass tabs or close the less
common internal bypass switch on the meter base.

How are they going to do that without opening the meter base? When
they swapped mine out for the smart meter they just popped the seal,
yanked the meter, and popped the new meter in. According to my UPS
record the house was without power for less than 3 seconds. And the
meter base was NOT opened, nor was power disconnected in any other
way.


They cut the seal and open the front cover on the meter base. If they
are using jumpers they just slide them on the tabs. If it has an
internal bypass they move the lever to bypass. In both cases the tabs or
lever are arranged so that you can't put the cover back on if jumpers
are installed or the lever is in bypass.



In the case of an emergency with the exception of operating a normal
disconnect switch you won't find any fire fighters in my area touching
electrical equipment. They notify the utility and wait if they feel it
is unsafe to proceed.

Then the utility guy arrives and locates the switches on the primary
lines ahead of the distribution transformer and opens them.

In the case of 480 services the large local utility for our area hasn't
allowed direct metering for over 20 years for safety reasons.


Likely a totally different situation on higher voltage or 3 phase
services.
ALL of our residential services in my area are underground, so they
can't clip wires or pull pole fuses.


  #55   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 18,538
Default Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?

On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:25:18 -0400, George
wrote:

On 6/11/2012 2:51 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:58:43 -0400,
wrote:

On 6/11/2012 9:16 AM,
wrote:
On Jun 11, 12:11 am, wrote:
On Jun 10, 8:11 pm, wrote:





On Jun 10, 10:11 pm, wrote:

On Jun 10, 8:09 am, wrote:

On Jun 9, 2:03 pm, wrote:

wrote:
I have a friend who runs a business. Their main breaker is on the
outside of the building right along a busy back alley. Inside the
building directly behind that main breaker is the panel with all the
individual breakers. The box looks similar to this:
http://www.solarpanelstore.com/assets/ch_dpb222r.jpg

If you look on the bottom, there is the tab that sticks out with the
hole, which is meant for a small padlock. The problem is that the
box, had a plastic tab. Why the manufacturer used a plastic tab (the
rest of the box is metal), is beyond me. It had a lock on it, but
the plastic tab broke off, and ever since people keep shutting off
the power at least once a month. That affects all kinds of
electronic equipment inside, and disrupts business. The business
owner is a woman who dont understand all the technical issues, she
just wants the box to be tamper proof. I told her I'd see what can
be done, and will install something if possible.

I suggested drilling a few holes and putting a hasp on the box, with
pop rivets and padlocking it, but I tend to wonder if there is any
sort of legal requirements. I suppose in the event of a fire, the
Fire Dept might want to shut off the power. This makes me question
what to do. I'm also not sure who to ask locally about this? Maybe
the power company?????

Anyone know anything about this?

One other thought was to drill a hole right below that slot and just
use a cable tie through the slot and the hole. Anyone can cut it
off, but it might be enough to discourage them. Right now all they
need to do is lift the cover and shut off the breaker. At least a
cable tie would require more effort by tamperers, and still be easily
cut in an emergency.

Is this covered in the USA electrical codes? I dont have the book.
(Are the codes available online?)

Having a locked breaker box, and a secured lock-out box, might discourage
a/c compressor coil thieves.

A lock certainly won't hinder the fire department. They'll rip the box off
the wall in a nonce if they feel like it.

Actually they won't, they will wait safely outside the
building and watch it burn until someone comes with
the keys or the power company comes and disconnects
the circuit to that building from the street... Which ever
comes first... Fire departments don't mess with metal
tools near live electrical equipment... Not when the
entire area and the personnel are wet from the fire fighting
operations on scene...

Evan-

It's been so much run to have you join in the party at AHR!

If nothing else you provide comic relief.

I guess you don't know any firefighters or seen any in action up
close.
They tend not to do a lot of waiting in general.

It's that whole fire thing, little fires get bigger if left
unattended.
My money is on them not waiting for a key.

That's probably why they study& practice forceable
entry ..........with a side order of "how to defeat padlocks".

http://www.larchmontfire.org/images/fdny_fe.pdf (~180 pages of
forceable entry techniques)http://www.firetowntrainingspecialis...20Padlocks.pdf

Evan, spend less time writing& more time reading, even you might get
a bit smarter.

I cannot help but wonder wether you born this stupid or is it the
result of serious effort (or injury)

@DD_BobK:

You are the pot calling the kettle black...

Biggest twit on here in a while...

Fire Departments are under no obligation to
aggressively attack a fire -- so if entry to the
building is unsafe because of an electrical
hazard, they can still put water on the flames
through the window and door openings and/or
douse closely abutting structures to prevent
spread of the flames...

Spend some time learning about arc flash
and other industrial accidents... Even a
small one can permanently disable or kill
you...

Evan-

You are the most dangerous type of contributor to AHR....
you have no idea when you;re out of your depth.

Which, based on your posting, is most of the time.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You mean like when he told us all that it's illegal to
vent nitrogen from an HVAC system to the atmosphere
and that you must instead capture it? He still claims
that's true and I've yet to see a reference.

If pulling a meter is so dangerous, going to cause
an arc over, etc. you would think there would be
dead utility workers all over the place. They pull
them every day. Exactly what is going to be so
special about their method as opposed to a fire
fighter doing it?


If utility workers pull them under load as in the case of a meter
swapout they install jumpers on the horn bypass tabs or close the less
common internal bypass switch on the meter base.

How are they going to do that without opening the meter base? When
they swapped mine out for the smart meter they just popped the seal,
yanked the meter, and popped the new meter in. According to my UPS
record the house was without power for less than 3 seconds. And the
meter base was NOT opened, nor was power disconnected in any other
way.


They cut the seal and open the front cover on the meter base. If they
are using jumpers they just slide them on the tabs. If it has an
internal bypass they move the lever to bypass. In both cases the tabs or
lever are arranged so that you can't put the cover back on if jumpers
are installed or the lever is in bypass.

Don't know what kind of meter or meter base you use in your parts,
but that would be a total impossibility with the residential meters
used by Waterloo North Hydro and Kitchener Wilmot Hydro for the last
50 years, give or take. And they are the same as used by virtually all
former Ontario Hydro (now Hydro One) customers.


  #57   Report Post  
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Posts: 2,907
Default Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?

On 6/11/2012 7:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:25:18 -0400,
wrote:

On 6/11/2012 2:51 PM,
wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:58:43 -0400,
wrote:

On 6/11/2012 9:16 AM,
wrote:
On Jun 11, 12:11 am, wrote:
On Jun 10, 8:11 pm, wrote:





On Jun 10, 10:11 pm, wrote:

On Jun 10, 8:09 am, wrote:

On Jun 9, 2:03 pm, wrote:

wrote:
I have a friend who runs a business. Their main breaker is on the
outside of the building right along a busy back alley. Inside the
building directly behind that main breaker is the panel with all the
individual breakers. The box looks similar to this:
http://www.solarpanelstore.com/assets/ch_dpb222r.jpg

If you look on the bottom, there is the tab that sticks out with the
hole, which is meant for a small padlock. The problem is that the
box, had a plastic tab. Why the manufacturer used a plastic tab (the
rest of the box is metal), is beyond me. It had a lock on it, but
the plastic tab broke off, and ever since people keep shutting off
the power at least once a month. That affects all kinds of
electronic equipment inside, and disrupts business. The business
owner is a woman who dont understand all the technical issues, she
just wants the box to be tamper proof. I told her I'd see what can
be done, and will install something if possible.

I suggested drilling a few holes and putting a hasp on the box, with
pop rivets and padlocking it, but I tend to wonder if there is any
sort of legal requirements. I suppose in the event of a fire, the
Fire Dept might want to shut off the power. This makes me question
what to do. I'm also not sure who to ask locally about this? Maybe
the power company?????

Anyone know anything about this?

One other thought was to drill a hole right below that slot and just
use a cable tie through the slot and the hole. Anyone can cut it
off, but it might be enough to discourage them. Right now all they
need to do is lift the cover and shut off the breaker. At least a
cable tie would require more effort by tamperers, and still be easily
cut in an emergency.

Is this covered in the USA electrical codes? I dont have the book.
(Are the codes available online?)

Having a locked breaker box, and a secured lock-out box, might discourage
a/c compressor coil thieves.

A lock certainly won't hinder the fire department. They'll rip the box off
the wall in a nonce if they feel like it.

Actually they won't, they will wait safely outside the
building and watch it burn until someone comes with
the keys or the power company comes and disconnects
the circuit to that building from the street... Which ever
comes first... Fire departments don't mess with metal
tools near live electrical equipment... Not when the
entire area and the personnel are wet from the fire fighting
operations on scene...

Evan-

It's been so much run to have you join in the party at AHR!

If nothing else you provide comic relief.

I guess you don't know any firefighters or seen any in action up
close.
They tend not to do a lot of waiting in general.

It's that whole fire thing, little fires get bigger if left
unattended.
My money is on them not waiting for a key.

That's probably why they study& practice forceable
entry ..........with a side order of "how to defeat padlocks".

http://www.larchmontfire.org/images/fdny_fe.pdf (~180 pages of
forceable entry techniques)http://www.firetowntrainingspecialis...20Padlocks.pdf

Evan, spend less time writing& more time reading, even you might get
a bit smarter.

I cannot help but wonder wether you born this stupid or is it the
result of serious effort (or injury)

@DD_BobK:

You are the pot calling the kettle black...

Biggest twit on here in a while...

Fire Departments are under no obligation to
aggressively attack a fire -- so if entry to the
building is unsafe because of an electrical
hazard, they can still put water on the flames
through the window and door openings and/or
douse closely abutting structures to prevent
spread of the flames...

Spend some time learning about arc flash
and other industrial accidents... Even a
small one can permanently disable or kill
you...

Evan-

You are the most dangerous type of contributor to AHR....
you have no idea when you;re out of your depth.

Which, based on your posting, is most of the time.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

You mean like when he told us all that it's illegal to
vent nitrogen from an HVAC system to the atmosphere
and that you must instead capture it? He still claims
that's true and I've yet to see a reference.

If pulling a meter is so dangerous, going to cause
an arc over, etc. you would think there would be
dead utility workers all over the place. They pull
them every day. Exactly what is going to be so
special about their method as opposed to a fire
fighter doing it?


If utility workers pull them under load as in the case of a meter
swapout they install jumpers on the horn bypass tabs or close the less
common internal bypass switch on the meter base.
How are they going to do that without opening the meter base? When
they swapped mine out for the smart meter they just popped the seal,
yanked the meter, and popped the new meter in. According to my UPS
record the house was without power for less than 3 seconds. And the
meter base was NOT opened, nor was power disconnected in any other
way.


They cut the seal and open the front cover on the meter base. If they
are using jumpers they just slide them on the tabs. If it has an
internal bypass they move the lever to bypass. In both cases the tabs or
lever are arranged so that you can't put the cover back on if jumpers
are installed or the lever is in bypass.

Don't know what kind of meter or meter base you use in your parts,
but that would be a total impossibility with the residential meters
used by Waterloo North Hydro and Kitchener Wilmot Hydro for the last
50 years, give or take. And they are the same as used by virtually all
former Ontario Hydro (now Hydro One) customers.


Sounds like you have what are called ring type meter bases. Our utility
(and I gather most others just by how common ringless bases are) has
required ringless meter bases for probably 30 years.

Here is a typical ringless meter base:

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=100346977&storeId=10051&l angId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=100346977&ci_kw={keyword} &kwd={keyword}&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googleads-_-pla-_-100346977&ci_gpa=pla


or

http://preview.tinyurl.com/c4y3v8j

You can clearly see there is a tab on each lug. Designs differ but they
all have the same size tab. That way the lineman just pushes on two
jumpers before pulling the meter:

"The USJL-001 jumper lead set is a convenient and safe method to prevent
a customer outage in event of meter removal/changeout. Constructed from
#6 AWG highly flexible insulated copper the working ends are also
machined of solid copper for utmost performance. The working ends are
beveled to permit easy push on installation. Simply push the meter lead
end over the bypass horn and turn the knurled handle until the lead is
tightly secured in place. Turning the knurled handle the opposite
direction will loosen the lead for easy removal."



http://www.utilitysolutionsinc.com/u...mper-Leads.cfm


http://preview.tinyurl.com/8x2mkdd



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On 6/11/2012 7:06 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:25:34 -0400,
wrote:

On 6/11/2012 12:53 PM,
wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 06:16:06 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:


If pulling a meter is so dangerous, going to cause
an arc over, etc. you would think there would be
dead utility workers all over the place. They pull
them every day. Exactly what is going to be so
special about their method as opposed to a fire
fighter doing it?

The guys doing the meter swaps are doing several dozen a day ... hot.
No PPE, nothing. They just cut the seal, pop out the old one and pop
in the new one in shorts and a t shirt.


Except our rather large utility spends an extra 30 seconds and slips on
two bypass jumpers.


Nothing like that here. I walked with the guy as he did two neighbors
after doing my house. There is no internal bypass in any meter can I
have inspected (residential or commercial) I have also never seen
these jumpers you are talking about. Where do they connect?
The jaws are fairly well hidden by the meter.


Here is a reply I just made further up in this thread:

Sounds like you have what are called ring type meter bases. Our utility
(and I gather most others just by how common ringless bases are) has
required ringless meter bases for probably 30 years.

Here is a typical ringless meter base:

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=100346977&storeId=10051&l angId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=100346977&ci_kw={keyword} &kwd={keyword}&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googleads-_-pla-_-100346977&ci_gpa=pla

or

http://preview.tinyurl.com/c4y3v8j

You can clearly see there is a tab on each lug. Designs differ but they
all have the same size tab. That way the lineman just pushes on two
jumpers before pulling the meter:

"The USJL-001 jumper lead set is a convenient and safe method to prevent
a customer outage in event of meter removal/changeout. Constructed from
#6 AWG highly flexible insulated copper the working ends are also
machined of solid copper for utmost performance. The working ends are
beveled to permit easy push on installation. Simply push the meter lead
end over the bypass horn and turn the knurled handle until the lead is
tightly secured in place. Turning the knurled handle the opposite
direction will loosen the lead for easy removal."



http://www.utilitysolutionsinc.com/u...mper-Leads.cfm

http://preview.tinyurl.com/8x2mkdd

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On Jun 11, 7:06*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:25:34 -0400, George
wrote:





On 6/11/2012 12:53 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 06:16:06 -0700 (PDT), "
*wrote:


If pulling a meter is so dangerous, going to cause
an arc over, etc. you would think there would be
dead utility workers all over the place. *They pull
them every day. *Exactly what is going to be so
special about their method as opposed to a fire
fighter doing it?


The guys doing the meter swaps are doing several dozen a day ... hot.
No PPE, nothing. They just cut the seal, pop out the old one and pop
in the new one in shorts and a t shirt.


Except our rather large utility spends an extra 30 seconds and slips on
two bypass jumpers.


Nothing like that here. I walked with the guy as he did two neighbors
after doing my house. There is no internal bypass in any meter can I
have inspected (residential or commercial) I have also never seen
these jumpers you are talking about. Where do they connect?
The jaws are fairly well hidden by the meter.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Same here in NJ. I've seen meters swapped exactly
as you say. Pull old one out, put new one in. At least
for residential service. Even the maker of the meter
box George points to says the tabs are there to allow
for the option of not interrupting the service. You'd
think if they were critical to preventing some fatal
arc-over, they would say so.
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On Jun 11, 9:32*pm, George wrote:
On 6/11/2012 7:06 PM, wrote:





On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:25:34 -0400,
wrote:


On 6/11/2012 12:53 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 06:16:06 -0700 (PDT), "
* wrote:


If pulling a meter is so dangerous, going to cause
an arc over, etc. you would think there would be
dead utility workers all over the place. *They pull
them every day. *Exactly what is going to be so
special about their method as opposed to a fire
fighter doing it?


The guys doing the meter swaps are doing several dozen a day ... hot.
No PPE, nothing. They just cut the seal, pop out the old one and pop
in the new one in shorts and a t shirt.


Except our rather large utility spends an extra 30 seconds and slips on
two bypass jumpers.


Nothing like that here. I walked with the guy as he did two neighbors
after doing my house. There is no internal bypass in any meter can I
have inspected (residential or commercial) I have also never seen
these jumpers you are talking about. Where do they connect?
The jaws are fairly well hidden by the meter.


Here is a reply I just made further up in this thread:

Sounds like you have what are called ring type meter bases. Our utility
(and I gather most others just by how common ringless bases are) has
required ringless meter bases for probably 30 years.

Here is a typical ringless meter base:

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?pro...{keyword}&kwd={keyword}&cm_mm c=shopping-_-googleads-_-pla-_-100346977&ci_gp*a=pla

or

http://preview.tinyurl.com/c4y3v8j

You can clearly see there is a tab on each lug. Designs differ but they
all have the same size tab. That way the lineman just pushes on two
jumpers before pulling the meter:

"The USJL-001 jumper lead set is a convenient and safe method to prevent
a customer outage in event of meter removal/changeout. Constructed from
#6 AWG highly flexible insulated copper the working ends are also
machined of solid copper for utmost performance. The working ends are
beveled to permit easy push on installation. Simply push the meter lead
end over the bypass horn and turn the knurled handle until the lead is
tightly secured in place. Turning the knurled handle the opposite
direction will loosen the lead for easy removal."

http://www.utilitysolutionsinc.com/u...29_Electric-Me...

http://preview.tinyurl.com/8x2mkdd- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I also note that the above clearly talks about this feature
only in the context of being used to avoid service
interruption during the meter removal. That makes
sense. You would think
if it was an important safety issue for meter removal
that they would say so. Also, with all the meter's out
there without this feature, we should be hearing about
serious accidents where the meter is just pulled. Have
any of those?


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On Jun 12, 12:14*am, wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 21:32:23 -0400, George
wrote:





On 6/11/2012 7:06 PM, wrote:
Nothing like that here. I walked with the guy as he did two neighbors
after doing my house. There is no internal bypass in any meter can I
have inspected (residential or commercial) I have also never seen
these jumpers you are talking about. Where do they connect?
The jaws are fairly well hidden by the meter.


Here is a reply I just made further up in this thread:


Sounds like you have what are called ring type meter bases. Our utility
(and I gather most others just by how common ringless bases are) has
required ringless meter bases for probably 30 years.


Here is a typical ringless meter base:


http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?pro...{keyword}&kwd={keyword}&cm_mm c=shopping-_-googleads-_-pla-_-100346977&ci_gp*a=pla


or


http://preview.tinyurl.com/c4y3v8j


You can clearly see there is a tab on each lug. Designs differ but they
all have the same size tab. That way the lineman just pushes on two
jumpers before pulling the meter:


"The USJL-001 jumper lead set is a convenient and safe method to prevent
a customer outage in event of meter removal/changeout. Constructed from
#6 AWG highly flexible insulated copper the working ends are also
machined of solid copper for utmost performance. The working ends are
beveled to permit easy push on installation. Simply push the meter lead
end over the bypass horn and turn the knurled handle until the lead is
tightly secured in place. Turning the knurled handle the opposite
direction will loosen the lead for easy removal."


http://www.utilitysolutionsinc.com/u...29_Electric-Me...


http://preview.tinyurl.com/8x2mkdd


These guys were probably being paid by the meters they replaced and
they were not doing one extra step. He had 4 in a box on a hand truck
and he was doing them in about 8-10 minutes a trip from the van.
He knocked on my door and said my power would be off a few seconds,
not really waiting for an answer. I told him I was getting my shoes
and I would come trip the main breaker for him (in the garage). By the
time I got out there he was putting the new meter in.

I have not seen a meter base like you linked. Maybe they are using
them now but they weren't when I was working.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I'm sure George sees his utility doing the meter
bypass. The remaining question is why? I would
bet that the real issue is avoiding service interruption
as a convenience to the customer. That's all the
meter box feature list talks about. If I was doing the
meter swap and was not under time pressure, I'd
do it that way too.

But that says nothing about a horrific accident being
likely to happen because someone pulls a residential
meter without jumpering across it.
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This thread has taken a life of its own. I'm surprised no one has quite
Aristotle, or Confucious.

Confucious say man who pull meter without jumper in for a shock.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


But that says nothing about a horrific accident being
likely to happen because someone pulls a residential
meter without jumpering across it.


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On Jun 12, 3:26*pm, "Twayne" wrote:
,
typed:

On Saturday, June 9, 2012 4:16:49 AM UTC-4, (unknown)
wrote:
I'm also not sure who to ask locally about this? *Maybe
the power company?????


How about the landlord? She runs a business so obviously
this is commercial space. If the space is leased, the
breaker access is the responsibility of the landlord.


wOw, you don't often get to see a display of ignorance as displayed in this
thread, especially when it's to easy to get the answer from the/a horse's
mouth, not one of the asses here. A few of you were brave enough to feed the
troll, but ... in general he's just a waste of skin without bones in it.


So, of course you chimed in because you wanted to
add to the ignorance and we know you can contribute a
lot. Thanks for stopping by.
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On Wednesday, June 13, 2012 9:43:47 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Jun 12, 3:26*pm, "Twayne" wrote:
,
typed:

On Saturday, June 9, 2012 4:16:49 AM UTC-4, (unknown)
wrote:
I'm also not sure who to ask locally about this? *Maybe
the power company?????


How about the landlord? She runs a business so obviously
this is commercial space. If the space is leased, the
breaker access is the responsibility of the landlord.


wOw, you don't often get to see a display of ignorance as displayed in this
thread, especially when it's to easy to get the answer from the/a horse's
mouth, not one of the asses here. A few of you were brave enough to feed the
troll, but ... in general he's just a waste of skin without bones in it..


So, of course you chimed in because you wanted to
add to the ignorance and we know you can contribute a
lot. Thanks for stopping by.


I'm more interested if he's calling me ignorant, or everyone else but me...
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replying to Evan, Kristi wrote:
All our electrical panels are behind locked doors and signed off by fire dept.
That way as long as all managers in the building have a key to the door or the
manager on duty at the time I don't think you know what you're talking about

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ox-700526-.htm


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replying to TomR, Kristi wrote:
Breakaway locks are approved by many local fire departments for locking up
areas they need to access without the help a building occupants. however, this
is in California and each fire department has their own standards. Some are
more strict than others.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ox-700526-.htm


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On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 02:44:03 GMT, Kristi
m wrote:

replying to TomR, Kristi wrote:
Breakaway locks are approved by many local fire departments for locking up
areas they need to access without the help a building occupants. however, this
is in California and each fire department has their own standards. Some are
more strict than others.


Firemen will get in if they need to. There may be significant damage
tho. Usually they just pull the meter. (mort accurately, break the
ring and pop it out with an axe)
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Are you allowed to lock a residential electric box meter outside by the landlord with a padlock
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