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#41
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
On Jun 11, 12:11*am, DD_BobK wrote:
On Jun 10, 8:11*pm, Evan wrote: On Jun 10, 10:11*pm, DD_BobK wrote: On Jun 10, 8:09*am, Evan wrote: On Jun 9, 2:03*pm, "HeyBub" wrote: wrote: I have a friend who runs a business. *Their main breaker is on the outside of the building right along a busy back alley. *Inside the building directly behind that main breaker is the panel with all the individual breakers. *The box looks similar to this: http://www.solarpanelstore.com/assets/ch_dpb222r.jpg If you look on the bottom, there is the tab that sticks out with the hole, which is meant for a small padlock. *The problem is that the box, had a plastic tab. *Why the manufacturer used a plastic tab (the rest of the box is metal), is beyond me. *It had a lock on it, but the plastic tab broke off, and ever since people keep shutting off the power at least once a month. *That affects all kinds of electronic equipment inside, and disrupts business. *The business owner is a woman who dont understand all the technical issues, she just wants the box to be tamper proof. *I told her I'd see what can be done, and will install something if possible. I suggested drilling a few holes and putting a hasp on the box, with pop rivets and padlocking it, but I tend to wonder if there is any sort of legal requirements. *I suppose in the event of a fire, the Fire Dept might want to shut off the power. *This makes me question what to do. I'm also not sure who to ask locally about this? *Maybe the power company????? Anyone know anything about this? One other thought was to drill a hole right below that slot and just use a cable tie through the slot and the hole. *Anyone can cut it off, but it might be enough to discourage them. *Right now all they need to do is lift the cover and shut off the breaker. *At least a cable tie would require more effort by tamperers, and still be easily cut in an emergency. Is this covered in the USA electrical codes? *I dont have the book. (Are the codes available online?) Having a locked breaker box, and a secured lock-out box, might discourage a/c compressor coil thieves. A lock certainly won't hinder the fire department. They'll rip the box off the wall in a nonce if they feel like it. Actually they won't, they will wait safely outside the building and watch it burn until someone comes with the keys or the power company comes and disconnects the circuit to that building from the street... *Which ever comes first... *Fire departments don't mess with metal tools near live electrical equipment... *Not when the entire area and the personnel are wet from the fire fighting operations on scene... Evan- It's been so much run to have you join in the party at AHR! If nothing else you provide comic relief. I guess you don't know any firefighters or seen any in action up close. They tend not to do a lot of waiting in general. It's that whole fire thing, little fires get bigger if left unattended. My money is on them not waiting for a key. That's probably why they study & practice forceable entry ..........with a side order of *"how to defeat padlocks". http://www.larchmontfire.org/images/fdny_fe.pdf**(~180 pages of forceable entry techniques)http://www.firetowntrainingspecialis...20Padlocks.pdf Evan, spend less time writing & more time reading, even you might get a bit smarter. I cannot help but wonder wether you born this stupid or is it the result of serious effort (or injury) @DD_BobK: You are the pot calling the kettle black... Biggest twit on here in a while... Fire Departments are under no obligation to aggressively attack a fire -- so if entry to the building is unsafe because of an electrical hazard, they can still put water on the flames through the window and door openings and/or douse closely abutting structures to prevent spread of the flames... Spend some time learning about arc flash and other industrial accidents... *Even a small one can permanently disable or kill you... Evan- You are the most dangerous type of contributor to AHR.... you have no idea when you;re out of your depth. Which, based on your posting, is most of the time.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You mean like when he told us all that it's illegal to vent nitrogen from an HVAC system to the atmosphere and that you must instead capture it? He still claims that's true and I've yet to see a reference. If pulling a meter is so dangerous, going to cause an arc over, etc. you would think there would be dead utility workers all over the place. They pull them every day. Exactly what is going to be so special about their method as opposed to a fire fighter doing it? |
#43
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
On 6/9/2012 2:04 PM, Evan wrote:
It sounds more like the business whose electrical service is arranged in this manner got hosed by the contractor which installed that particular style of enclosure given its location and the fact that it can be tampered with... Probably not. Unfused service lines must be as short as possible after entering the building. It isn't all that unusual in commercial occupancies to have the main panel located some distance inside so the service lines need to be fused before that location. You should look at what possible replacements you could install which would be more tamper resistant... Installing an accessory padlock hasp on the particular enclosure you have now might only result in damage to the enclosure the next time the pranksters want to play at flipping the switch... Is that the only means of service disconnect ? Is the meter can located adjacent to it ? Is the breaker panel inside main lug only or does it have an additional means of disconnect {a main breaker) also ? It seems like the question to ask is why that specific type of equipment was installed... Was it required by the AHJ or was it just the best the contractor who installed it could cobble together ? |
#44
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
On Jun 11, 9:58*am, George wrote:
On 6/11/2012 9:16 AM, wrote: On Jun 11, 12:11 am, *wrote: On Jun 10, 8:11 pm, *wrote: On Jun 10, 10:11 pm, *wrote: On Jun 10, 8:09 am, *wrote: On Jun 9, 2:03 pm, *wrote: wrote: I have a friend who runs a business. *Their main breaker is on the outside of the building right along a busy back alley. *Inside the building directly behind that main breaker is the panel with all the individual breakers. *The box looks similar to this: http://www.solarpanelstore.com/assets/ch_dpb222r.jpg If you look on the bottom, there is the tab that sticks out with the hole, which is meant for a small padlock. *The problem is that the box, had a plastic tab. *Why the manufacturer used a plastic tab (the rest of the box is metal), is beyond me. *It had a lock on it, but the plastic tab broke off, and ever since people keep shutting off the power at least once a month. *That affects all kinds of electronic equipment inside, and disrupts business. *The business owner is a woman who dont understand all the technical issues, she just wants the box to be tamper proof. *I told her I'd see what can be done, and will install something if possible. I suggested drilling a few holes and putting a hasp on the box, with pop rivets and padlocking it, but I tend to wonder if there is any sort of legal requirements. *I suppose in the event of a fire, the Fire Dept might want to shut off the power. *This makes me question what to do. I'm also not sure who to ask locally about this? *Maybe the power company????? Anyone know anything about this? One other thought was to drill a hole right below that slot and just use a cable tie through the slot and the hole. *Anyone can cut it off, but it might be enough to discourage them. *Right now all they need to do is lift the cover and shut off the breaker. *At least a cable tie would require more effort by tamperers, and still be easily cut in an emergency. Is this covered in the USA electrical codes? *I dont have the book. (Are the codes available online?) Having a locked breaker box, and a secured lock-out box, might discourage a/c compressor coil thieves. A lock certainly won't hinder the fire department. They'll rip the box off the wall in a nonce if they feel like it. Actually they won't, they will wait safely outside the building and watch it burn until someone comes with the keys or the power company comes and disconnects the circuit to that building from the street... *Which ever comes first... *Fire departments don't mess with metal tools near live electrical equipment... *Not when the entire area and the personnel are wet from the fire fighting operations on scene... Evan- It's been so much run to have you join in the party at AHR! If nothing else you provide comic relief. I guess you don't know any firefighters or seen any in action up close. They tend not to do a lot of waiting in general. It's that whole fire thing, little fires get bigger if left unattended. My money is on them not waiting for a key. That's probably why they study& *practice forceable entry ..........with a side order of *"how to defeat padlocks". http://www.larchmontfire.org/images/fdny_fe.pdf*(~180 pages of forceable entry techniques)http://www.firetowntrainingspecialis...20Padlocks.pdf Evan, spend less time writing& *more time reading, even you might get a bit smarter. I cannot help but wonder wether you born this stupid or is it the result of serious effort (or injury) @DD_BobK: You are the pot calling the kettle black... Biggest twit on here in a while... Fire Departments are under no obligation to aggressively attack a fire -- so if entry to the building is unsafe because of an electrical hazard, they can still put water on the flames through the window and door openings and/or douse closely abutting structures to prevent spread of the flames... Spend some time learning about arc flash and other industrial accidents... *Even a small one can permanently disable or kill you... Evan- You are the most dangerous type of contributor to AHR.... you have no idea when you;re out of your depth. Which, based on your posting, is most of the time.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You mean like when he told us all that it's illegal to vent nitrogen from an HVAC system to the atmosphere and that you must instead capture it? *He still claims that's true and I've yet to see a reference. If pulling a meter is so dangerous, going to cause an arc over, etc. you would think there would be dead utility workers all over the place. *They pull them every day. *Exactly what is going to be so special about their method as opposed to a fire fighter doing it? If utility workers pull them under load as in the case of a meter swapout they install jumpers on the horn bypass tabs or close the less common internal bypass switch on the meter base. In the case of an emergency with the exception of operating a normal disconnect switch you won't find any fire fighters in my area touching electrical equipment. They notify the utility and wait if they feel it is unsafe to proceed. So, all your firefighters are pussies? What exactly is so dangerous about pulling a meter? What is the utility crew going to do differently than a firefighter would do pulling a meter on a house or small business? They show up, cut seal, pull out meter. We have firefighters running into burning houses to save people or cats, but we're to believe pulling a meter is more dangerous? Geez Then the utility guy arrives and locates the switches on the primary lines ahead of the distribution transformer and opens them. In the case of 480 services the large local utility for our area hasn't allowed direct metering for over 20 years for safety reasons.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - |
#45
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
John Grabowski wrote:
. . . . , I am interested in the same question as the OP about whether it is okay to put a lock on this outside main cutoff. *You can go ahead and put padlocks on the outside disconnects as long as each tenant will receive a key. There are special padlocks that are made to be cut with a bolt cutter that I have seen on fire sprinkler valves and fence gates to electrical equipment. The locks have a notch cut into them making it easier to cut. I think McMaster-Carr sells them. Thanks. That's good to know. If I do end up putting locks on, I'll either get cheap little ones that probably aren't even made with hardened steel or I'll look for the type that you mentioned via McMaster-Carr etc. |
#46
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
On 6/11/2012 9:40 AM, wrote:
On Jun 11, 9:58 am, wrote: On 6/11/2012 9:16 AM, wrote: On Jun 11, 12:11 am, wrote: On Jun 10, 8:11 pm, wrote: On Jun 10, 10:11 pm, wrote: On Jun 10, 8:09 am, wrote: On Jun 9, 2:03 pm, wrote: wrote: I have a friend who runs a business. Their main breaker is on the outside of the building right along a busy back alley. Inside the building directly behind that main breaker is the panel with all the individual breakers. The box looks similar to this: http://www.solarpanelstore.com/assets/ch_dpb222r.jpg If you look on the bottom, there is the tab that sticks out with the hole, which is meant for a small padlock. The problem is that the box, had a plastic tab. Why the manufacturer used a plastic tab (the rest of the box is metal), is beyond me. It had a lock on it, but the plastic tab broke off, and ever since people keep shutting off the power at least once a month. That affects all kinds of electronic equipment inside, and disrupts business. The business owner is a woman who dont understand all the technical issues, she just wants the box to be tamper proof. I told her I'd see what can be done, and will install something if possible. I suggested drilling a few holes and putting a hasp on the box, with pop rivets and padlocking it, but I tend to wonder if there is any sort of legal requirements. I suppose in the event of a fire, the Fire Dept might want to shut off the power. This makes me question what to do. I'm also not sure who to ask locally about this? Maybe the power company????? Anyone know anything about this? One other thought was to drill a hole right below that slot and just use a cable tie through the slot and the hole. Anyone can cut it off, but it might be enough to discourage them. Right now all they need to do is lift the cover and shut off the breaker. At least a cable tie would require more effort by tamperers, and still be easily cut in an emergency. Is this covered in the USA electrical codes? I dont have the book. (Are the codes available online?) Having a locked breaker box, and a secured lock-out box, might discourage a/c compressor coil thieves. A lock certainly won't hinder the fire department. They'll rip the box off the wall in a nonce if they feel like it. Actually they won't, they will wait safely outside the building and watch it burn until someone comes with the keys or the power company comes and disconnects the circuit to that building from the street... Which ever comes first... Fire departments don't mess with metal tools near live electrical equipment... Not when the entire area and the personnel are wet from the fire fighting operations on scene... Evan- It's been so much run to have you join in the party at AHR! If nothing else you provide comic relief. I guess you don't know any firefighters or seen any in action up close. They tend not to do a lot of waiting in general. It's that whole fire thing, little fires get bigger if left unattended. My money is on them not waiting for a key. That's probably why they study& practice forceable entry ..........with a side order of "how to defeat padlocks". http://www.larchmontfire.org/images/fdny_fe.pdf (~180 pages of forceable entry techniques)http://www.firetowntrainingspecialis...20Padlocks.pdf Evan, spend less time writing& more time reading, even you might get a bit smarter. I cannot help but wonder wether you born this stupid or is it the result of serious effort (or injury) @DD_BobK: You are the pot calling the kettle black... Biggest twit on here in a while... Fire Departments are under no obligation to aggressively attack a fire -- so if entry to the building is unsafe because of an electrical hazard, they can still put water on the flames through the window and door openings and/or douse closely abutting structures to prevent spread of the flames... Spend some time learning about arc flash and other industrial accidents... Even a small one can permanently disable or kill you... Evan- You are the most dangerous type of contributor to AHR.... you have no idea when you;re out of your depth. Which, based on your posting, is most of the time.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You mean like when he told us all that it's illegal to vent nitrogen from an HVAC system to the atmosphere and that you must instead capture it? He still claims that's true and I've yet to see a reference. If pulling a meter is so dangerous, going to cause an arc over, etc. you would think there would be dead utility workers all over the place. They pull them every day. Exactly what is going to be so special about their method as opposed to a fire fighter doing it? If utility workers pull them under load as in the case of a meter swapout they install jumpers on the horn bypass tabs or close the less common internal bypass switch on the meter base. In the case of an emergency with the exception of operating a normal disconnect switch you won't find any fire fighters in my area touching electrical equipment. They notify the utility and wait if they feel it is unsafe to proceed. So, all your firefighters are pussies? What exactly is so dangerous about pulling a meter? What is the utility crew going to do differently than a firefighter would do pulling a meter on a house or small business? They show up, cut seal, pull out meter. We have firefighters running into burning houses to save people or cats, but we're to believe pulling a meter is more dangerous? Geez Then the utility guy arrives and locates the switches on the primary lines ahead of the distribution transformer and opens them. In the case of 480 services the large local utility for our area hasn't allowed direct metering for over 20 years for safety reasons.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - It's kind of like changing a v-belt. You just don't stick your fingers where they don't belong. I've pulled my own meter many times. I just don't stick my fingers on the terminals after it's out. duh. -- Steve Barker remove the "not" from my address to email |
#47
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
Evan wrote:
Fire Departments are under no obligation to aggressively attack a fire -- so if entry to the building is unsafe because of an electrical hazard, they can still put water on the flames through the window and door openings and/or douse closely abutting structures to prevent spread of the flames... Spend some time learning about arc flash and other industrial accidents... Even a small one can permanently disable or kill you... I was a volunteer fireman. We pop the meter out. 10 seconds. As safe as anything can be in that business. -- Doug |
#48
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:09:05 -0500, Steve Barker
wrote: On 6/11/2012 9:40 AM, wrote: On Jun 11, 9:58 am, wrote: On 6/11/2012 9:16 AM, wrote: On Jun 11, 12:11 am, wrote: On Jun 10, 8:11 pm, wrote: On Jun 10, 10:11 pm, wrote: On Jun 10, 8:09 am, wrote: On Jun 9, 2:03 pm, wrote: wrote: I have a friend who runs a business. Their main breaker is on the outside of the building right along a busy back alley. Inside the building directly behind that main breaker is the panel with all the individual breakers. The box looks similar to this: http://www.solarpanelstore.com/assets/ch_dpb222r.jpg If you look on the bottom, there is the tab that sticks out with the hole, which is meant for a small padlock. The problem is that the box, had a plastic tab. Why the manufacturer used a plastic tab (the rest of the box is metal), is beyond me. It had a lock on it, but the plastic tab broke off, and ever since people keep shutting off the power at least once a month. That affects all kinds of electronic equipment inside, and disrupts business. The business owner is a woman who dont understand all the technical issues, she just wants the box to be tamper proof. I told her I'd see what can be done, and will install something if possible. I suggested drilling a few holes and putting a hasp on the box, with pop rivets and padlocking it, but I tend to wonder if there is any sort of legal requirements. I suppose in the event of a fire, the Fire Dept might want to shut off the power. This makes me question what to do. I'm also not sure who to ask locally about this? Maybe the power company????? Anyone know anything about this? One other thought was to drill a hole right below that slot and just use a cable tie through the slot and the hole. Anyone can cut it off, but it might be enough to discourage them. Right now all they need to do is lift the cover and shut off the breaker. At least a cable tie would require more effort by tamperers, and still be easily cut in an emergency. Is this covered in the USA electrical codes? I dont have the book. (Are the codes available online?) Having a locked breaker box, and a secured lock-out box, might discourage a/c compressor coil thieves. A lock certainly won't hinder the fire department. They'll rip the box off the wall in a nonce if they feel like it. Actually they won't, they will wait safely outside the building and watch it burn until someone comes with the keys or the power company comes and disconnects the circuit to that building from the street... Which ever comes first... Fire departments don't mess with metal tools near live electrical equipment... Not when the entire area and the personnel are wet from the fire fighting operations on scene... Evan- It's been so much run to have you join in the party at AHR! If nothing else you provide comic relief. I guess you don't know any firefighters or seen any in action up close. They tend not to do a lot of waiting in general. It's that whole fire thing, little fires get bigger if left unattended. My money is on them not waiting for a key. That's probably why they study& practice forceable entry ..........with a side order of "how to defeat padlocks". http://www.larchmontfire.org/images/fdny_fe.pdf (~180 pages of forceable entry techniques)http://www.firetowntrainingspecialis...20Padlocks.pdf Evan, spend less time writing& more time reading, even you might get a bit smarter. I cannot help but wonder wether you born this stupid or is it the result of serious effort (or injury) @DD_BobK: You are the pot calling the kettle black... Biggest twit on here in a while... Fire Departments are under no obligation to aggressively attack a fire -- so if entry to the building is unsafe because of an electrical hazard, they can still put water on the flames through the window and door openings and/or douse closely abutting structures to prevent spread of the flames... Spend some time learning about arc flash and other industrial accidents... Even a small one can permanently disable or kill you... Evan- You are the most dangerous type of contributor to AHR.... you have no idea when you;re out of your depth. Which, based on your posting, is most of the time.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You mean like when he told us all that it's illegal to vent nitrogen from an HVAC system to the atmosphere and that you must instead capture it? He still claims that's true and I've yet to see a reference. If pulling a meter is so dangerous, going to cause an arc over, etc. you would think there would be dead utility workers all over the place. They pull them every day. Exactly what is going to be so special about their method as opposed to a fire fighter doing it? If utility workers pull them under load as in the case of a meter swapout they install jumpers on the horn bypass tabs or close the less common internal bypass switch on the meter base. In the case of an emergency with the exception of operating a normal disconnect switch you won't find any fire fighters in my area touching electrical equipment. They notify the utility and wait if they feel it is unsafe to proceed. So, all your firefighters are pussies? What exactly is so dangerous about pulling a meter? What is the utility crew going to do differently than a firefighter would do pulling a meter on a house or small business? They show up, cut seal, pull out meter. We have firefighters running into burning houses to save people or cats, but we're to believe pulling a meter is more dangerous? Geez Then the utility guy arrives and locates the switches on the primary lines ahead of the distribution transformer and opens them. In the case of 480 services the large local utility for our area hasn't allowed direct metering for over 20 years for safety reasons.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - It's kind of like changing a v-belt. You just don't stick your fingers where they don't belong. I've pulled my own meter many times. I just don't stick my fingers on the terminals after it's out. duh. Yeah, you'd think firemen would be at least that smart. They are trained for the job, after all. |
#49
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
On Saturday, June 9, 2012 4:16:49 AM UTC-4, (unknown) wrote:
I'm also not sure who to ask locally about this? Maybe the power company????? How about the landlord? She runs a business so obviously this is commercial space. If the space is leased, the breaker access is the responsibility of the landlord. |
#50
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
On Jun 11, 12:54*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:58:43 -0400, George wrote: If utility workers pull them under load as in the case of a meter swapout they install jumpers on the horn bypass tabs or close the less common internal bypass switch on the meter base. Nope, they just yank them. I watched the guy do mine and 2 neighbors. I have pulled a meter several times. its no biggie at all. one for a broken fuse stuck in its socket, one for upgrading the main panel, it needed a extra ground bar and tighten some loose stuff, one had a fried breaker and i didnt want any power at the main. i called the power company after each one was complete and the power company didnt care.... they just resealed the meter when they got around to it |
#51
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:58:43 -0400, George
wrote: On 6/11/2012 9:16 AM, wrote: On Jun 11, 12:11 am, wrote: On Jun 10, 8:11 pm, wrote: On Jun 10, 10:11 pm, wrote: On Jun 10, 8:09 am, wrote: On Jun 9, 2:03 pm, wrote: wrote: I have a friend who runs a business. Their main breaker is on the outside of the building right along a busy back alley. Inside the building directly behind that main breaker is the panel with all the individual breakers. The box looks similar to this: http://www.solarpanelstore.com/assets/ch_dpb222r.jpg If you look on the bottom, there is the tab that sticks out with the hole, which is meant for a small padlock. The problem is that the box, had a plastic tab. Why the manufacturer used a plastic tab (the rest of the box is metal), is beyond me. It had a lock on it, but the plastic tab broke off, and ever since people keep shutting off the power at least once a month. That affects all kinds of electronic equipment inside, and disrupts business. The business owner is a woman who dont understand all the technical issues, she just wants the box to be tamper proof. I told her I'd see what can be done, and will install something if possible. I suggested drilling a few holes and putting a hasp on the box, with pop rivets and padlocking it, but I tend to wonder if there is any sort of legal requirements. I suppose in the event of a fire, the Fire Dept might want to shut off the power. This makes me question what to do. I'm also not sure who to ask locally about this? Maybe the power company????? Anyone know anything about this? One other thought was to drill a hole right below that slot and just use a cable tie through the slot and the hole. Anyone can cut it off, but it might be enough to discourage them. Right now all they need to do is lift the cover and shut off the breaker. At least a cable tie would require more effort by tamperers, and still be easily cut in an emergency. Is this covered in the USA electrical codes? I dont have the book. (Are the codes available online?) Having a locked breaker box, and a secured lock-out box, might discourage a/c compressor coil thieves. A lock certainly won't hinder the fire department. They'll rip the box off the wall in a nonce if they feel like it. Actually they won't, they will wait safely outside the building and watch it burn until someone comes with the keys or the power company comes and disconnects the circuit to that building from the street... Which ever comes first... Fire departments don't mess with metal tools near live electrical equipment... Not when the entire area and the personnel are wet from the fire fighting operations on scene... Evan- It's been so much run to have you join in the party at AHR! If nothing else you provide comic relief. I guess you don't know any firefighters or seen any in action up close. They tend not to do a lot of waiting in general. It's that whole fire thing, little fires get bigger if left unattended. My money is on them not waiting for a key. That's probably why they study& practice forceable entry ..........with a side order of "how to defeat padlocks". http://www.larchmontfire.org/images/fdny_fe.pdf (~180 pages of forceable entry techniques)http://www.firetowntrainingspecialis...20Padlocks.pdf Evan, spend less time writing& more time reading, even you might get a bit smarter. I cannot help but wonder wether you born this stupid or is it the result of serious effort (or injury) @DD_BobK: You are the pot calling the kettle black... Biggest twit on here in a while... Fire Departments are under no obligation to aggressively attack a fire -- so if entry to the building is unsafe because of an electrical hazard, they can still put water on the flames through the window and door openings and/or douse closely abutting structures to prevent spread of the flames... Spend some time learning about arc flash and other industrial accidents... Even a small one can permanently disable or kill you... Evan- You are the most dangerous type of contributor to AHR.... you have no idea when you;re out of your depth. Which, based on your posting, is most of the time.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You mean like when he told us all that it's illegal to vent nitrogen from an HVAC system to the atmosphere and that you must instead capture it? He still claims that's true and I've yet to see a reference. If pulling a meter is so dangerous, going to cause an arc over, etc. you would think there would be dead utility workers all over the place. They pull them every day. Exactly what is going to be so special about their method as opposed to a fire fighter doing it? If utility workers pull them under load as in the case of a meter swapout they install jumpers on the horn bypass tabs or close the less common internal bypass switch on the meter base. How are they going to do that without opening the meter base? When they swapped mine out for the smart meter they just popped the seal, yanked the meter, and popped the new meter in. According to my UPS record the house was without power for less than 3 seconds. And the meter base was NOT opened, nor was power disconnected in any other way. In the case of an emergency with the exception of operating a normal disconnect switch you won't find any fire fighters in my area touching electrical equipment. They notify the utility and wait if they feel it is unsafe to proceed. Then the utility guy arrives and locates the switches on the primary lines ahead of the distribution transformer and opens them. In the case of 480 services the large local utility for our area hasn't allowed direct metering for over 20 years for safety reasons. Likely a totally different situation on higher voltage or 3 phase services. ALL of our residential services in my area are underground, so they can't clip wires or pull pole fuses. |
#52
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
George wrote:
If utility workers pull them under load as in the case of a meter swapout they install jumpers on the horn bypass tabs or close the less common internal bypass switch on the meter base. In the case of an emergency with the exception of operating a normal disconnect switch you won't find any fire fighters in my area touching electrical equipment. They notify the utility and wait if they feel it is unsafe to proceed. Then the utility guy arrives and locates the switches on the primary lines ahead of the distribution transformer and opens them. In the case of 480 services the large local utility for our area hasn't allowed direct metering for over 20 years for safety reasons. Boy, you must have a REALLY strong firefighter's union! Do they wait for the public works department to turn on the fire plugs? If my house is at risk because the firemen were too pussified (or unionized) to turn off the power next door so they could douse my neighbor's fire, I'd be alarmed. In an emergency, it's easy. They use something that looks like limb pruning shears on a fiberglass pole to cut the primaries. Job done. Sorry about your neighborhood. |
#53
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
On 6/11/2012 2:51 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:58:43 -0400, wrote: On 6/11/2012 9:16 AM, wrote: On Jun 11, 12:11 am, wrote: On Jun 10, 8:11 pm, wrote: On Jun 10, 10:11 pm, wrote: On Jun 10, 8:09 am, wrote: On Jun 9, 2:03 pm, wrote: wrote: I have a friend who runs a business. Their main breaker is on the outside of the building right along a busy back alley. Inside the building directly behind that main breaker is the panel with all the individual breakers. The box looks similar to this: http://www.solarpanelstore.com/assets/ch_dpb222r.jpg If you look on the bottom, there is the tab that sticks out with the hole, which is meant for a small padlock. The problem is that the box, had a plastic tab. Why the manufacturer used a plastic tab (the rest of the box is metal), is beyond me. It had a lock on it, but the plastic tab broke off, and ever since people keep shutting off the power at least once a month. That affects all kinds of electronic equipment inside, and disrupts business. The business owner is a woman who dont understand all the technical issues, she just wants the box to be tamper proof. I told her I'd see what can be done, and will install something if possible. I suggested drilling a few holes and putting a hasp on the box, with pop rivets and padlocking it, but I tend to wonder if there is any sort of legal requirements. I suppose in the event of a fire, the Fire Dept might want to shut off the power. This makes me question what to do. I'm also not sure who to ask locally about this? Maybe the power company????? Anyone know anything about this? One other thought was to drill a hole right below that slot and just use a cable tie through the slot and the hole. Anyone can cut it off, but it might be enough to discourage them. Right now all they need to do is lift the cover and shut off the breaker. At least a cable tie would require more effort by tamperers, and still be easily cut in an emergency. Is this covered in the USA electrical codes? I dont have the book. (Are the codes available online?) Having a locked breaker box, and a secured lock-out box, might discourage a/c compressor coil thieves. A lock certainly won't hinder the fire department. They'll rip the box off the wall in a nonce if they feel like it. Actually they won't, they will wait safely outside the building and watch it burn until someone comes with the keys or the power company comes and disconnects the circuit to that building from the street... Which ever comes first... Fire departments don't mess with metal tools near live electrical equipment... Not when the entire area and the personnel are wet from the fire fighting operations on scene... Evan- It's been so much run to have you join in the party at AHR! If nothing else you provide comic relief. I guess you don't know any firefighters or seen any in action up close. They tend not to do a lot of waiting in general. It's that whole fire thing, little fires get bigger if left unattended. My money is on them not waiting for a key. That's probably why they study& practice forceable entry ..........with a side order of "how to defeat padlocks". http://www.larchmontfire.org/images/fdny_fe.pdf (~180 pages of forceable entry techniques)http://www.firetowntrainingspecialis...20Padlocks.pdf Evan, spend less time writing& more time reading, even you might get a bit smarter. I cannot help but wonder wether you born this stupid or is it the result of serious effort (or injury) @DD_BobK: You are the pot calling the kettle black... Biggest twit on here in a while... Fire Departments are under no obligation to aggressively attack a fire -- so if entry to the building is unsafe because of an electrical hazard, they can still put water on the flames through the window and door openings and/or douse closely abutting structures to prevent spread of the flames... Spend some time learning about arc flash and other industrial accidents... Even a small one can permanently disable or kill you... Evan- You are the most dangerous type of contributor to AHR.... you have no idea when you;re out of your depth. Which, based on your posting, is most of the time.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You mean like when he told us all that it's illegal to vent nitrogen from an HVAC system to the atmosphere and that you must instead capture it? He still claims that's true and I've yet to see a reference. If pulling a meter is so dangerous, going to cause an arc over, etc. you would think there would be dead utility workers all over the place. They pull them every day. Exactly what is going to be so special about their method as opposed to a fire fighter doing it? If utility workers pull them under load as in the case of a meter swapout they install jumpers on the horn bypass tabs or close the less common internal bypass switch on the meter base. How are they going to do that without opening the meter base? When they swapped mine out for the smart meter they just popped the seal, yanked the meter, and popped the new meter in. According to my UPS record the house was without power for less than 3 seconds. And the meter base was NOT opened, nor was power disconnected in any other way. They cut the seal and open the front cover on the meter base. If they are using jumpers they just slide them on the tabs. If it has an internal bypass they move the lever to bypass. In both cases the tabs or lever are arranged so that you can't put the cover back on if jumpers are installed or the lever is in bypass. In the case of an emergency with the exception of operating a normal disconnect switch you won't find any fire fighters in my area touching electrical equipment. They notify the utility and wait if they feel it is unsafe to proceed. Then the utility guy arrives and locates the switches on the primary lines ahead of the distribution transformer and opens them. In the case of 480 services the large local utility for our area hasn't allowed direct metering for over 20 years for safety reasons. Likely a totally different situation on higher voltage or 3 phase services. ALL of our residential services in my area are underground, so they can't clip wires or pull pole fuses. |
#54
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
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#55
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:25:18 -0400, George
wrote: On 6/11/2012 2:51 PM, wrote: On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:58:43 -0400, wrote: On 6/11/2012 9:16 AM, wrote: On Jun 11, 12:11 am, wrote: On Jun 10, 8:11 pm, wrote: On Jun 10, 10:11 pm, wrote: On Jun 10, 8:09 am, wrote: On Jun 9, 2:03 pm, wrote: wrote: I have a friend who runs a business. Their main breaker is on the outside of the building right along a busy back alley. Inside the building directly behind that main breaker is the panel with all the individual breakers. The box looks similar to this: http://www.solarpanelstore.com/assets/ch_dpb222r.jpg If you look on the bottom, there is the tab that sticks out with the hole, which is meant for a small padlock. The problem is that the box, had a plastic tab. Why the manufacturer used a plastic tab (the rest of the box is metal), is beyond me. It had a lock on it, but the plastic tab broke off, and ever since people keep shutting off the power at least once a month. That affects all kinds of electronic equipment inside, and disrupts business. The business owner is a woman who dont understand all the technical issues, she just wants the box to be tamper proof. I told her I'd see what can be done, and will install something if possible. I suggested drilling a few holes and putting a hasp on the box, with pop rivets and padlocking it, but I tend to wonder if there is any sort of legal requirements. I suppose in the event of a fire, the Fire Dept might want to shut off the power. This makes me question what to do. I'm also not sure who to ask locally about this? Maybe the power company????? Anyone know anything about this? One other thought was to drill a hole right below that slot and just use a cable tie through the slot and the hole. Anyone can cut it off, but it might be enough to discourage them. Right now all they need to do is lift the cover and shut off the breaker. At least a cable tie would require more effort by tamperers, and still be easily cut in an emergency. Is this covered in the USA electrical codes? I dont have the book. (Are the codes available online?) Having a locked breaker box, and a secured lock-out box, might discourage a/c compressor coil thieves. A lock certainly won't hinder the fire department. They'll rip the box off the wall in a nonce if they feel like it. Actually they won't, they will wait safely outside the building and watch it burn until someone comes with the keys or the power company comes and disconnects the circuit to that building from the street... Which ever comes first... Fire departments don't mess with metal tools near live electrical equipment... Not when the entire area and the personnel are wet from the fire fighting operations on scene... Evan- It's been so much run to have you join in the party at AHR! If nothing else you provide comic relief. I guess you don't know any firefighters or seen any in action up close. They tend not to do a lot of waiting in general. It's that whole fire thing, little fires get bigger if left unattended. My money is on them not waiting for a key. That's probably why they study& practice forceable entry ..........with a side order of "how to defeat padlocks". http://www.larchmontfire.org/images/fdny_fe.pdf (~180 pages of forceable entry techniques)http://www.firetowntrainingspecialis...20Padlocks.pdf Evan, spend less time writing& more time reading, even you might get a bit smarter. I cannot help but wonder wether you born this stupid or is it the result of serious effort (or injury) @DD_BobK: You are the pot calling the kettle black... Biggest twit on here in a while... Fire Departments are under no obligation to aggressively attack a fire -- so if entry to the building is unsafe because of an electrical hazard, they can still put water on the flames through the window and door openings and/or douse closely abutting structures to prevent spread of the flames... Spend some time learning about arc flash and other industrial accidents... Even a small one can permanently disable or kill you... Evan- You are the most dangerous type of contributor to AHR.... you have no idea when you;re out of your depth. Which, based on your posting, is most of the time.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You mean like when he told us all that it's illegal to vent nitrogen from an HVAC system to the atmosphere and that you must instead capture it? He still claims that's true and I've yet to see a reference. If pulling a meter is so dangerous, going to cause an arc over, etc. you would think there would be dead utility workers all over the place. They pull them every day. Exactly what is going to be so special about their method as opposed to a fire fighter doing it? If utility workers pull them under load as in the case of a meter swapout they install jumpers on the horn bypass tabs or close the less common internal bypass switch on the meter base. How are they going to do that without opening the meter base? When they swapped mine out for the smart meter they just popped the seal, yanked the meter, and popped the new meter in. According to my UPS record the house was without power for less than 3 seconds. And the meter base was NOT opened, nor was power disconnected in any other way. They cut the seal and open the front cover on the meter base. If they are using jumpers they just slide them on the tabs. If it has an internal bypass they move the lever to bypass. In both cases the tabs or lever are arranged so that you can't put the cover back on if jumpers are installed or the lever is in bypass. Don't know what kind of meter or meter base you use in your parts, but that would be a total impossibility with the residential meters used by Waterloo North Hydro and Kitchener Wilmot Hydro for the last 50 years, give or take. And they are the same as used by virtually all former Ontario Hydro (now Hydro One) customers. |
#56
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 19:06:56 -0400, wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:25:34 -0400, George wrote: On 6/11/2012 12:53 PM, wrote: On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 06:16:06 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: If pulling a meter is so dangerous, going to cause an arc over, etc. you would think there would be dead utility workers all over the place. They pull them every day. Exactly what is going to be so special about their method as opposed to a fire fighter doing it? The guys doing the meter swaps are doing several dozen a day ... hot. No PPE, nothing. They just cut the seal, pop out the old one and pop in the new one in shorts and a t shirt. Except our rather large utility spends an extra 30 seconds and slips on two bypass jumpers. Nothing like that here. I walked with the guy as he did two neighbors after doing my house. There is no internal bypass in any meter can I have inspected (residential or commercial) I have also never seen these jumpers you are talking about. Where do they connect? The jaws are fairly well hidden by the meter. Make that VERY well hidden - for safety reasons a meter that could be bypassed without totally pulling it would NEVER pass Canadian Safety Authourity inspections (Now TSSA, I guess) |
#57
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
On 6/11/2012 7:20 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:25:18 -0400, wrote: On 6/11/2012 2:51 PM, wrote: On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 09:58:43 -0400, wrote: On 6/11/2012 9:16 AM, wrote: On Jun 11, 12:11 am, wrote: On Jun 10, 8:11 pm, wrote: On Jun 10, 10:11 pm, wrote: On Jun 10, 8:09 am, wrote: On Jun 9, 2:03 pm, wrote: wrote: I have a friend who runs a business. Their main breaker is on the outside of the building right along a busy back alley. Inside the building directly behind that main breaker is the panel with all the individual breakers. The box looks similar to this: http://www.solarpanelstore.com/assets/ch_dpb222r.jpg If you look on the bottom, there is the tab that sticks out with the hole, which is meant for a small padlock. The problem is that the box, had a plastic tab. Why the manufacturer used a plastic tab (the rest of the box is metal), is beyond me. It had a lock on it, but the plastic tab broke off, and ever since people keep shutting off the power at least once a month. That affects all kinds of electronic equipment inside, and disrupts business. The business owner is a woman who dont understand all the technical issues, she just wants the box to be tamper proof. I told her I'd see what can be done, and will install something if possible. I suggested drilling a few holes and putting a hasp on the box, with pop rivets and padlocking it, but I tend to wonder if there is any sort of legal requirements. I suppose in the event of a fire, the Fire Dept might want to shut off the power. This makes me question what to do. I'm also not sure who to ask locally about this? Maybe the power company????? Anyone know anything about this? One other thought was to drill a hole right below that slot and just use a cable tie through the slot and the hole. Anyone can cut it off, but it might be enough to discourage them. Right now all they need to do is lift the cover and shut off the breaker. At least a cable tie would require more effort by tamperers, and still be easily cut in an emergency. Is this covered in the USA electrical codes? I dont have the book. (Are the codes available online?) Having a locked breaker box, and a secured lock-out box, might discourage a/c compressor coil thieves. A lock certainly won't hinder the fire department. They'll rip the box off the wall in a nonce if they feel like it. Actually they won't, they will wait safely outside the building and watch it burn until someone comes with the keys or the power company comes and disconnects the circuit to that building from the street... Which ever comes first... Fire departments don't mess with metal tools near live electrical equipment... Not when the entire area and the personnel are wet from the fire fighting operations on scene... Evan- It's been so much run to have you join in the party at AHR! If nothing else you provide comic relief. I guess you don't know any firefighters or seen any in action up close. They tend not to do a lot of waiting in general. It's that whole fire thing, little fires get bigger if left unattended. My money is on them not waiting for a key. That's probably why they study& practice forceable entry ..........with a side order of "how to defeat padlocks". http://www.larchmontfire.org/images/fdny_fe.pdf (~180 pages of forceable entry techniques)http://www.firetowntrainingspecialis...20Padlocks.pdf Evan, spend less time writing& more time reading, even you might get a bit smarter. I cannot help but wonder wether you born this stupid or is it the result of serious effort (or injury) @DD_BobK: You are the pot calling the kettle black... Biggest twit on here in a while... Fire Departments are under no obligation to aggressively attack a fire -- so if entry to the building is unsafe because of an electrical hazard, they can still put water on the flames through the window and door openings and/or douse closely abutting structures to prevent spread of the flames... Spend some time learning about arc flash and other industrial accidents... Even a small one can permanently disable or kill you... Evan- You are the most dangerous type of contributor to AHR.... you have no idea when you;re out of your depth. Which, based on your posting, is most of the time.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - You mean like when he told us all that it's illegal to vent nitrogen from an HVAC system to the atmosphere and that you must instead capture it? He still claims that's true and I've yet to see a reference. If pulling a meter is so dangerous, going to cause an arc over, etc. you would think there would be dead utility workers all over the place. They pull them every day. Exactly what is going to be so special about their method as opposed to a fire fighter doing it? If utility workers pull them under load as in the case of a meter swapout they install jumpers on the horn bypass tabs or close the less common internal bypass switch on the meter base. How are they going to do that without opening the meter base? When they swapped mine out for the smart meter they just popped the seal, yanked the meter, and popped the new meter in. According to my UPS record the house was without power for less than 3 seconds. And the meter base was NOT opened, nor was power disconnected in any other way. They cut the seal and open the front cover on the meter base. If they are using jumpers they just slide them on the tabs. If it has an internal bypass they move the lever to bypass. In both cases the tabs or lever are arranged so that you can't put the cover back on if jumpers are installed or the lever is in bypass. Don't know what kind of meter or meter base you use in your parts, but that would be a total impossibility with the residential meters used by Waterloo North Hydro and Kitchener Wilmot Hydro for the last 50 years, give or take. And they are the same as used by virtually all former Ontario Hydro (now Hydro One) customers. Sounds like you have what are called ring type meter bases. Our utility (and I gather most others just by how common ringless bases are) has required ringless meter bases for probably 30 years. Here is a typical ringless meter base: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=100346977&storeId=10051&l angId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=100346977&ci_kw={keyword} &kwd={keyword}&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googleads-_-pla-_-100346977&ci_gpa=pla or http://preview.tinyurl.com/c4y3v8j You can clearly see there is a tab on each lug. Designs differ but they all have the same size tab. That way the lineman just pushes on two jumpers before pulling the meter: "The USJL-001 jumper lead set is a convenient and safe method to prevent a customer outage in event of meter removal/changeout. Constructed from #6 AWG highly flexible insulated copper the working ends are also machined of solid copper for utmost performance. The working ends are beveled to permit easy push on installation. Simply push the meter lead end over the bypass horn and turn the knurled handle until the lead is tightly secured in place. Turning the knurled handle the opposite direction will loosen the lead for easy removal." http://www.utilitysolutionsinc.com/u...mper-Leads.cfm http://preview.tinyurl.com/8x2mkdd |
#58
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
On 6/11/2012 7:06 PM, wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:25:34 -0400, wrote: On 6/11/2012 12:53 PM, wrote: On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 06:16:06 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: If pulling a meter is so dangerous, going to cause an arc over, etc. you would think there would be dead utility workers all over the place. They pull them every day. Exactly what is going to be so special about their method as opposed to a fire fighter doing it? The guys doing the meter swaps are doing several dozen a day ... hot. No PPE, nothing. They just cut the seal, pop out the old one and pop in the new one in shorts and a t shirt. Except our rather large utility spends an extra 30 seconds and slips on two bypass jumpers. Nothing like that here. I walked with the guy as he did two neighbors after doing my house. There is no internal bypass in any meter can I have inspected (residential or commercial) I have also never seen these jumpers you are talking about. Where do they connect? The jaws are fairly well hidden by the meter. Here is a reply I just made further up in this thread: Sounds like you have what are called ring type meter bases. Our utility (and I gather most others just by how common ringless bases are) has required ringless meter bases for probably 30 years. Here is a typical ringless meter base: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=100346977&storeId=10051&l angId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=100346977&ci_kw={keyword} &kwd={keyword}&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googleads-_-pla-_-100346977&ci_gpa=pla or http://preview.tinyurl.com/c4y3v8j You can clearly see there is a tab on each lug. Designs differ but they all have the same size tab. That way the lineman just pushes on two jumpers before pulling the meter: "The USJL-001 jumper lead set is a convenient and safe method to prevent a customer outage in event of meter removal/changeout. Constructed from #6 AWG highly flexible insulated copper the working ends are also machined of solid copper for utmost performance. The working ends are beveled to permit easy push on installation. Simply push the meter lead end over the bypass horn and turn the knurled handle until the lead is tightly secured in place. Turning the knurled handle the opposite direction will loosen the lead for easy removal." http://www.utilitysolutionsinc.com/u...mper-Leads.cfm http://preview.tinyurl.com/8x2mkdd |
#59
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
On Jun 11, 7:06*pm, wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:25:34 -0400, George wrote: On 6/11/2012 12:53 PM, wrote: On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 06:16:06 -0700 (PDT), " *wrote: If pulling a meter is so dangerous, going to cause an arc over, etc. you would think there would be dead utility workers all over the place. *They pull them every day. *Exactly what is going to be so special about their method as opposed to a fire fighter doing it? The guys doing the meter swaps are doing several dozen a day ... hot. No PPE, nothing. They just cut the seal, pop out the old one and pop in the new one in shorts and a t shirt. Except our rather large utility spends an extra 30 seconds and slips on two bypass jumpers. Nothing like that here. I walked with the guy as he did two neighbors after doing my house. There is no internal bypass in any meter can I have inspected (residential or commercial) I have also never seen these jumpers you are talking about. Where do they connect? The jaws are fairly well hidden by the meter.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Same here in NJ. I've seen meters swapped exactly as you say. Pull old one out, put new one in. At least for residential service. Even the maker of the meter box George points to says the tabs are there to allow for the option of not interrupting the service. You'd think if they were critical to preventing some fatal arc-over, they would say so. |
#60
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
On Jun 11, 9:32*pm, George wrote:
On 6/11/2012 7:06 PM, wrote: On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:25:34 -0400, wrote: On 6/11/2012 12:53 PM, wrote: On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 06:16:06 -0700 (PDT), " * wrote: If pulling a meter is so dangerous, going to cause an arc over, etc. you would think there would be dead utility workers all over the place. *They pull them every day. *Exactly what is going to be so special about their method as opposed to a fire fighter doing it? The guys doing the meter swaps are doing several dozen a day ... hot. No PPE, nothing. They just cut the seal, pop out the old one and pop in the new one in shorts and a t shirt. Except our rather large utility spends an extra 30 seconds and slips on two bypass jumpers. Nothing like that here. I walked with the guy as he did two neighbors after doing my house. There is no internal bypass in any meter can I have inspected (residential or commercial) I have also never seen these jumpers you are talking about. Where do they connect? The jaws are fairly well hidden by the meter. Here is a reply I just made further up in this thread: Sounds like you have what are called ring type meter bases. Our utility (and I gather most others just by how common ringless bases are) has required ringless meter bases for probably 30 years. Here is a typical ringless meter base: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?pro...{keyword}&kwd={keyword}&cm_mm c=shopping-_-googleads-_-pla-_-100346977&ci_gp*a=pla or http://preview.tinyurl.com/c4y3v8j You can clearly see there is a tab on each lug. Designs differ but they all have the same size tab. That way the lineman just pushes on two jumpers before pulling the meter: "The USJL-001 jumper lead set is a convenient and safe method to prevent a customer outage in event of meter removal/changeout. Constructed from #6 AWG highly flexible insulated copper the working ends are also machined of solid copper for utmost performance. The working ends are beveled to permit easy push on installation. Simply push the meter lead end over the bypass horn and turn the knurled handle until the lead is tightly secured in place. Turning the knurled handle the opposite direction will loosen the lead for easy removal." http://www.utilitysolutionsinc.com/u...29_Electric-Me... http://preview.tinyurl.com/8x2mkdd- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I also note that the above clearly talks about this feature only in the context of being used to avoid service interruption during the meter removal. That makes sense. You would think if it was an important safety issue for meter removal that they would say so. Also, with all the meter's out there without this feature, we should be hearing about serious accidents where the meter is just pulled. Have any of those? |
#61
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
On Jun 12, 12:14*am, wrote:
On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 21:32:23 -0400, George wrote: On 6/11/2012 7:06 PM, wrote: Nothing like that here. I walked with the guy as he did two neighbors after doing my house. There is no internal bypass in any meter can I have inspected (residential or commercial) I have also never seen these jumpers you are talking about. Where do they connect? The jaws are fairly well hidden by the meter. Here is a reply I just made further up in this thread: Sounds like you have what are called ring type meter bases. Our utility (and I gather most others just by how common ringless bases are) has required ringless meter bases for probably 30 years. Here is a typical ringless meter base: http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?pro...{keyword}&kwd={keyword}&cm_mm c=shopping-_-googleads-_-pla-_-100346977&ci_gp*a=pla or http://preview.tinyurl.com/c4y3v8j You can clearly see there is a tab on each lug. Designs differ but they all have the same size tab. That way the lineman just pushes on two jumpers before pulling the meter: "The USJL-001 jumper lead set is a convenient and safe method to prevent a customer outage in event of meter removal/changeout. Constructed from #6 AWG highly flexible insulated copper the working ends are also machined of solid copper for utmost performance. The working ends are beveled to permit easy push on installation. Simply push the meter lead end over the bypass horn and turn the knurled handle until the lead is tightly secured in place. Turning the knurled handle the opposite direction will loosen the lead for easy removal." http://www.utilitysolutionsinc.com/u...29_Electric-Me... http://preview.tinyurl.com/8x2mkdd These guys were probably being paid by the meters they replaced and they were not doing one extra step. He had 4 in a box on a hand truck and he was doing them in about 8-10 minutes a trip from the van. He knocked on my door and said my power would be off a few seconds, not really waiting for an answer. I told him I was getting my shoes and I would come trip the main breaker for him (in the garage). By the time I got out there he was putting the new meter in. I have not seen a meter base like you linked. Maybe they are using them now but they weren't when I was working.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I'm sure George sees his utility doing the meter bypass. The remaining question is why? I would bet that the real issue is avoiding service interruption as a convenience to the customer. That's all the meter box feature list talks about. If I was doing the meter swap and was not under time pressure, I'd do it that way too. But that says nothing about a horrific accident being likely to happen because someone pulls a residential meter without jumpering across it. |
#62
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
This thread has taken a life of its own. I'm surprised no one has quite
Aristotle, or Confucious. Confucious say man who pull meter without jumper in for a shock. Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. But that says nothing about a horrific accident being likely to happen because someone pulls a residential meter without jumpering across it. |
#63
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
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#64
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
On Jun 12, 3:26*pm, "Twayne" wrote:
, typed: On Saturday, June 9, 2012 4:16:49 AM UTC-4, (unknown) wrote: I'm also not sure who to ask locally about this? *Maybe the power company????? How about the landlord? She runs a business so obviously this is commercial space. If the space is leased, the breaker access is the responsibility of the landlord. wOw, you don't often get to see a display of ignorance as displayed in this thread, especially when it's to easy to get the answer from the/a horse's mouth, not one of the asses here. A few of you were brave enough to feed the troll, but ... in general he's just a waste of skin without bones in it. So, of course you chimed in because you wanted to add to the ignorance and we know you can contribute a lot. Thanks for stopping by. |
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
On Wednesday, June 13, 2012 9:43:47 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Jun 12, 3:26*pm, "Twayne" wrote: , typed: On Saturday, June 9, 2012 4:16:49 AM UTC-4, (unknown) wrote: I'm also not sure who to ask locally about this? *Maybe the power company????? How about the landlord? She runs a business so obviously this is commercial space. If the space is leased, the breaker access is the responsibility of the landlord. wOw, you don't often get to see a display of ignorance as displayed in this thread, especially when it's to easy to get the answer from the/a horse's mouth, not one of the asses here. A few of you were brave enough to feed the troll, but ... in general he's just a waste of skin without bones in it.. So, of course you chimed in because you wanted to add to the ignorance and we know you can contribute a lot. Thanks for stopping by. I'm more interested if he's calling me ignorant, or everyone else but me... |
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
replying to Evan, Kristi wrote:
All our electrical panels are behind locked doors and signed off by fire dept. That way as long as all managers in the building have a key to the door or the manager on duty at the time I don't think you know what you're talking about -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ox-700526-.htm |
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
replying to TomR, Kristi wrote:
Breakaway locks are approved by many local fire departments for locking up areas they need to access without the help a building occupants. however, this is in California and each fire department has their own standards. Some are more strict than others. -- for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ox-700526-.htm |
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 02:44:03 GMT, Kristi
m wrote: replying to TomR, Kristi wrote: Breakaway locks are approved by many local fire departments for locking up areas they need to access without the help a building occupants. however, this is in California and each fire department has their own standards. Some are more strict than others. Firemen will get in if they need to. There may be significant damage tho. Usually they just pull the meter. (mort accurately, break the ring and pop it out with an axe) |
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
Are you allowed to lock a residential electric box meter outside by the landlord with a padlock
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 17:23:58 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
On 7/14/2019 1:34 PM, wrote: Are you allowed to lock a residential electric box meter outside by the landlord with a padlock The meter box? Sure, you have no reason to go in there. It is not your box. The circuit breakers themselves? Different story, you may have to reset one and need access. Locking one in a 1&2 family is largely unaddressed. Just be aware the fire department will get medieval on your cabinet if they want to get in. In multifamily the resident needs access to his own disconnect unless you have a 24/7/365 maintenance person in site. Can he lock his own? see above. This is just the NEC If you are multifamily or commercial you are not talking to an electrical inspector you see a fire marshall and they have a stack of other NFPA documents they use. They are all tougher than the NEC. He is also a guy who can padlock your business, not just fail an inspection and slow down a construction job. |
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Is it legal to lock a main breaker box?
writes:
On Sun, 14 Jul 2019 17:23:58 -0400, Ed Pawlowski wrote: On 7/14/2019 1:34 PM, wrote: Are you allowed to lock a residential electric box meter outside by the landlord with a padlock Locking one in a 1&2 family is largely unaddressed. Just be aware the fire department will get medieval on your cabinet if they want to get in. Around here, they just pull the meter. |
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