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Default Central heat and air condition will not stop blowing

On May 1, 11:33*am, gonjah wrote:
On 5/1/2012 9:51 AM, wrote:





On May 1, 10:26 am, *wrote:
On 5/1/2012 7:40 AM, wrote:


On May 1, 2:45 am, gonjahgonjah.net * *wrote:
On 4/30/2012 8:48 PM, cjt wrote:
On 04/30/2012 10:41 AM, Tamara Lynn wrote:
"Ed * * *wrote:
"Tamara * * *wrote in message
I was told about 16 years ago when I bought the house that the Lennox
central heat and air was on its last leg. *I am glad I have waited
this
long.
I have been cheated nearly every time a service 'professional'
comes out.
One drove a half a mile, slammed the doors shut and billed me $85
for 5
minutes of work. *I am a single mother, now unemployed and can't
afford a
new unit at this time. *But it is on my wish list...after the
election,
when I hope to be able to get a job. :-)
T
Once you get working, think about a new unit. *It may pay for itself
with
energy savings.
Oh, that tech worked more than five minutes, unless he lived next door.
And he has a lot of costs to maintain that truck and tools. *In this
area,
it is about $120 to ring the doorbell.
As I said above, it's on my wish list. *I had two bids to buy one at the
time I lost my job. *I have to live on meager savings, because my child
support is more than $367 per month, which means no foods stamps or
healthcare.
As to $120 to ring the bell, well that is pure bull****. *Not only am
I an
accountant, but have owned and ran several businesses over 25 years.
I am
not going to break down the costs for you, but he was practically
next door.
The one before him lied about a pound on the freon.
I may be a female, but I am not an idiot.lol
HVAC seems to attract crooks, IMHO.
Conjecture you can't back up with any meaningful stats. Fact is, most of
these techs work for companies that have no interest in screwing anybody
because they live an die by their reputations just like any business..- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Statistics? * I doubt there are any statistics and
how you would get any would take quite an effort.
It's not like traffic deaths where they are clear and
logged.
That's what I said.


"Conjecture you can't back up with any meaningful stats."


Just as you can't back up your claim that they are
inherently honest. *There are plenty of contractors out
there that make a career of screwing customers.
Examples being the home improvement guys that
contract to do a bathroom, take customers money,
do some half-assed work with no permits, then
disappear. *And that happens plenty of times.
I don't think statistics are necessary. *Life experience
is enough in cases like this.


Yeah, is see your point. Maybe a glass half full/empty type of thing
too. I basically trust people until they screw me which might be why I
get so upset when they do.

But from my experiences, here at least, I'd give Central Texans a higher
than average score for honesty. I've had quite a few people come out and
work for me and so far I've gotten my money's worth.

WTS: I keep my eye on them and I always check references, thoroughly.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


One of the best examples of crooks I saw was with a
car. I used to work for a large company and those of
us in the field had company cars. At the end of the
company lease we could buy them for a real good
deal. My GF at the time needed a car and one of my
co-workers had a Pontiac with about 70K miles on it
that was coming off lease. So, she wound up buying it.

About a year later, the ABS light was on. She took it
to a local dealer. She also told them that the power
steering made a noise. They investigated and told
her the on board computer was shot and the PS was
leaking. Total to fix $1300.

I immediately smelled a rat. I asked her what noise
she was complaining about. It was a little noise when
you turn the steering wheel to one extreme or the
other. I've seen lots of cars do that and IMO it's
perfectly normal. I asked her is she saw any PS
fluid on the garage floor and the answer was no.
I looked underneath, all over and no evidence of
anythiing leaking.

I talked to my co-worker and he told me that he
had a problem with a wheel sensor and which
dealer he had taken it to. I had her take the car
there. Their diagnosis: one bad wheel sensor.
Cost her about $150 to have it fixed.

Now, it's very hard to explain this in any way
other than the first dealer being a crook. That
car has two main computers. One for the
enginer and one for the ABS. Both read out
extensive codes. For the ABS it will tell you
on each wheel if a sensor is open, shorted,
etc. It also has a self diagnostic that will tell
if the ABS computer is shot. So, it's impossible
for me to believe that was a simple case of
the wrong diagnosis. And she kept the car
for another 3 years with no PS leaking and
the PS continuing to function just fine.

The only part of this I can't understand is how
they can pull it off. It requires at least some of
the employees to be in on it and you would
think that sooner or later one of them would get
****ed off and rat them out. On the other hand,
one way of pulling it off indirectly would be to
compensate the mechanics based on the
total repair bill. That way, the dealer isn't
directly telling them to pad bills, but just
incentivizing them to do it.
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Default Central heat and air condition will not stop blowing

On May 1, 8:40*am, "
wrote:
On May 1, 2:45*am, gonjah gonjah.net wrote:





On 4/30/2012 8:48 PM, cjt wrote:


On 04/30/2012 10:41 AM, Tamara Lynn wrote:
"Ed *wrote:


"Tamara *wrote in message
I was told about 16 years ago when I bought the house that the Lennox
central heat and air was on its last leg. *I am glad I have waited
this
long.


I have been cheated nearly every time a service 'professional'
comes out.
One drove a half a mile, slammed the doors shut and billed me $85
for 5
minutes of work. *I am a single mother, now unemployed and can't
afford a
new unit at this time. *But it is on my wish list...after the
election,
when I hope to be able to get a job. :-)


T
Once you get working, think about a new unit. *It may pay for itself
with
energy savings.


Oh, that tech worked more than five minutes, unless he lived next door.
And he has a lot of costs to maintain that truck and tools. *In this
area,
it is about $120 to ring the doorbell.


As I said above, it's on my wish list. *I had two bids to buy one at the
time I lost my job. *I have to live on meager savings, because my child
support is more than $367 per month, which means no foods stamps or
healthcare.


As to $120 to ring the bell, well that is pure bull****. *Not only am
I an
accountant, but have owned and ran several businesses over 25 years.
I am
not going to break down the costs for you, but he was practically
next door.
The one before him lied about a pound on the freon.


I may be a female, but I am not an idiot.lol


HVAC seems to attract crooks, IMHO.


Conjecture you can't back up with any meaningful stats. Fact is, most of
these techs work for companies that have no interest in screwing anybody
because they live an die by their reputations just like any business.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Statistics? * I doubt there are any statistics and
how you would get any would take quite an effort.
It's not like traffic deaths where they are clear and
logged.

I have seen enough undercover and sting operations
over the years to believe that there are in fact plenty
of scammers. * Someone posted a link on here a couple
years ago to an undercover TV investigation in
Phoenix where they had two experts verify that an
AC system was working perfectly. *Then they just
pulled out the fuse disconnect slightly and called
4 companies they picked out of the phone book.
Two told the lady who was the homeowner that
the system was shot, couldn't be fixed,
and needed to be replaced. One of those even
stated that it wasn't a voltage problem because
he measured 240V at the compressor. *Of the other
two, one reinserted the disconnect and charged for
the call. *The last one did the same, but refused to
charge anything.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


That reminds of the time I was an instructor in an electronics
training lab while in the USCG. My job was to break the equipment and
have the students troubleshoot it back to life.

An o-scope was required test equipment and one test required a trigger
signal from the equipment in order to get a display on the scope.

I used to pull the fuse from the back of the scope and watch the
students try to get it working. Oft times they would assume the
trigger signal wasn't present in the equipment and decide that the
board that produced the trigger was bad. As soon as they asked for a
"trigger board" replacement it was points off their grade, but I'd
give them a new one anyway.

I'd eventually point to the scope and ask if they saw anythng
interesting about the power-on LED, which of course, was off.
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Default Central heat and air condition will not stop blowing

On Tue, 01 May 2012 10:33:03 -0500, gonjah wrote:

I've had quite a few people come out and
work for me and so far I've gotten my money's worth.


Trouble is, how do you know for sure you're not being scammed? Unless
you know the technology of what's being fixed (car, AC, TV, ect) you
pretty much have to take the repair guys word. And if you do know the
technology then you'd probably fix it yourself anyway...

WTS: I keep my eye on them and I always check references, thoroughly.


Heck a few years back they ran a sting on the automotive repair shop
at the local Sears store. They were routinely cheating the customers!
If you can't trust Sears... 8-O
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Default Central heat and air condition will not stop blowing

On 5/1/2012 4:06 PM, AJL wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2012 10:33:03 -0500, wrote:

I've had quite a few people come out and
work for me and so far I've gotten my money's worth.

Trouble is, how do you know for sure you're not being scammed? Unless
you know the technology of what's being fixed (car, AC, TV, ect) you
pretty much have to take the repair guys word. And if you do know the
technology then you'd probably fix it yourself anyway...


I think you have a point but I ask a lot of questions during and before
work takes place. I can't express how important it is to do your
homework before having anyone come out.


WTS: I keep my eye on them and I always check references, thoroughly.

Heck a few years back they ran a sting on the automotive repair shop
at the local Sears store. They were routinely cheating the customers!
If you can't trust Sears... 8-O


I've never gone to sears for "repairs". Only tires and batteries.
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Default Central heat and air condition will not stop blowing

On 05/01/2012 01:45 AM, gonjah wrote:
On 4/30/2012 8:48 PM, cjt wrote:
On 04/30/2012 10:41 AM, Tamara Lynn wrote:
"Ed wrote:

"Tamara wrote in message
I was told about 16 years ago when I bought the house that the Lennox
central heat and air was on its last leg. I am glad I have waited this
long.

I have been cheated nearly every time a service 'professional'
comes out.
One drove a half a mile, slammed the doors shut and billed me $85
for 5
minutes of work. I am a single mother, now unemployed and can't
afford a
new unit at this time. But it is on my wish list...after the election,
when I hope to be able to get a job. :-)

T
Once you get working, think about a new unit. It may pay for itself
with
energy savings.

Oh, that tech worked more than five minutes, unless he lived next door.
And he has a lot of costs to maintain that truck and tools. In this
area,
it is about $120 to ring the doorbell.

As I said above, it's on my wish list. I had two bids to buy one at the
time I lost my job. I have to live on meager savings, because my child
support is more than $367 per month, which means no foods stamps or
healthcare.

As to $120 to ring the bell, well that is pure bull****. Not only am
I an
accountant, but have owned and ran several businesses over 25 years.
I am
not going to break down the costs for you, but he was practically
next door.
The one before him lied about a pound on the freon.

I may be a female, but I am not an idiot.lol



HVAC seems to attract crooks, IMHO.



Conjecture you can't back up with any meaningful stats. Fact is, most of
these techs work for companies that have no interest in screwing anybody
because they live an die by their reputations just like any business.


It would certainly be interesting to see a study done.


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Default Central heat and air condition will not stop blowing

On Tue, 01 May 2012 17:40:01 -0500, gonjah gonjah.net wrote:

On 5/1/2012 4:06 PM, AJL wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2012 10:33:03 -0500, wrote:

I've had quite a few people come out and
work for me and so far I've gotten my money's worth.

Trouble is, how do you know for sure you're not being scammed? Unless
you know the technology of what's being fixed (car, AC, TV, ect) you
pretty much have to take the repair guys word. And if you do know the
technology then you'd probably fix it yourself anyway...


I think you have a point but I ask a lot of questions during and before
work takes place. I can't express how important it is to do your
homework before having anyone come out.


I always like to watch them do the work. But they probably secretly
charge me extra for the privilege so I may not be any ahead...

WTS: I keep my eye on them and I always check references, thoroughly.

Heck a few years back they ran a sting on the automotive repair shop
at the local Sears store. They were routinely cheating the customers!
If you can't trust Sears... 8-O


I've never gone to sears for "repairs". Only tires and batteries.


I guess my point was that who would you normally trust, the scuzy
local garage or the upstanding Sears Corporation? I was wrong. I now
know you can't trust anyone.
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Default Central heat and air condition will not stop blowing

On 5/1/2012 9:28 PM, AJL wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2012 17:40:01 -0500, gonjahgonjah.net wrote:

On 5/1/2012 4:06 PM, AJL wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2012 10:33:03 -0500, wrote:

I've had quite a few people come out and
work for me and so far I've gotten my money's worth.
Trouble is, how do you know for sure you're not being scammed? Unless
you know the technology of what's being fixed (car, AC, TV, ect) you
pretty much have to take the repair guys word. And if you do know the
technology then you'd probably fix it yourself anyway...

I think you have a point but I ask a lot of questions during and before
work takes place. I can't express how important it is to do your
homework before having anyone come out.

I always like to watch them do the work. But they probably secretly
charge me extra for the privilege so I may not be any ahead...

WTS: I keep my eye on them and I always check references, thoroughly.
Heck a few years back they ran a sting on the automotive repair shop
at the local Sears store. They were routinely cheating the customers!
If you can't trust Sears... 8-O

I've never gone to sears for "repairs". Only tires and batteries.

I guess my point was that who would you normally trust, the scuzy
local garage or the upstanding Sears Corporation? I was wrong. I now
know you can't trust anyone.


I wouldn't trust Sears to do repairs so I guess I'm not following. I try
to stay away from dealers too.

Just recently I took a tire to Firestone for repair and they ruined it
then put it back on the car. The tire was low the next day and I went to
Costco and bought a new tire. I took the Costco receipt to Firestone and
they reimbursed me. That's pretty typical of the way things happen to
me. Frustrating but it all seems to work out in the end.
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Default Central heat and air condition will not stop blowing

On Tue, 1 May 2012 13:44:08 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On May 1, 8:40*am, "
wrote:
On May 1, 2:45*am, gonjah gonjah.net wrote:





On 4/30/2012 8:48 PM, cjt wrote:


On 04/30/2012 10:41 AM, Tamara Lynn wrote:
"Ed *wrote:


"Tamara *wrote in message
I was told about 16 years ago when I bought the house that the Lennox
central heat and air was on its last leg. *I am glad I have waited
this
long.


I have been cheated nearly every time a service 'professional'
comes out.
One drove a half a mile, slammed the doors shut and billed me $85
for 5
minutes of work. *I am a single mother, now unemployed and can't
afford a
new unit at this time. *But it is on my wish list...after the
election,
when I hope to be able to get a job. :-)


T
Once you get working, think about a new unit. *It may pay for itself
with
energy savings.


Oh, that tech worked more than five minutes, unless he lived next door.
And he has a lot of costs to maintain that truck and tools. *In this
area,
it is about $120 to ring the doorbell.


As I said above, it's on my wish list. *I had two bids to buy one at the
time I lost my job. *I have to live on meager savings, because my child
support is more than $367 per month, which means no foods stamps or
healthcare.


As to $120 to ring the bell, well that is pure bull****. *Not only am
I an
accountant, but have owned and ran several businesses over 25 years.
I am
not going to break down the costs for you, but he was practically
next door.
The one before him lied about a pound on the freon.


I may be a female, but I am not an idiot.lol


HVAC seems to attract crooks, IMHO.


Conjecture you can't back up with any meaningful stats. Fact is, most of
these techs work for companies that have no interest in screwing anybody
because they live an die by their reputations just like any business.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Statistics? * I doubt there are any statistics and
how you would get any would take quite an effort.
It's not like traffic deaths where they are clear and
logged.

I have seen enough undercover and sting operations
over the years to believe that there are in fact plenty
of scammers. * Someone posted a link on here a couple
years ago to an undercover TV investigation in
Phoenix where they had two experts verify that an
AC system was working perfectly. *Then they just
pulled out the fuse disconnect slightly and called
4 companies they picked out of the phone book.
Two told the lady who was the homeowner that
the system was shot, couldn't be fixed,
and needed to be replaced. One of those even
stated that it wasn't a voltage problem because
he measured 240V at the compressor. *Of the other
two, one reinserted the disconnect and charged for
the call. *The last one did the same, but refused to
charge anything.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


That reminds of the time I was an instructor in an electronics
training lab while in the USCG. My job was to break the equipment and
have the students troubleshoot it back to life.

An o-scope was required test equipment and one test required a trigger
signal from the equipment in order to get a display on the scope.

I used to pull the fuse from the back of the scope and watch the
students try to get it working. Oft times they would assume the
trigger signal wasn't present in the equipment and decide that the
board that produced the trigger was bad. As soon as they asked for a
"trigger board" replacement it was points off their grade, but I'd
give them a new one anyway.

I'd eventually point to the scope and ask if they saw anythng
interesting about the power-on LED, which of course, was off.


A friend of my uncle's taught a course quite similar to what you describe. At
the time it was tube televisions and they'd simulate the problems by clipping
a pin off a tube somewhere. Pretty soon, the students would catch on and pull
all the tubes looking for the missing pin. Ok, so they stopped that by
deducting points for every tube pulled. Some years later, he saw one of his
former students at work, pulling tubes and counting pins.

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Default Central heat and air condition will not stop blowing

On May 1, 10:28*pm, AJL wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2012 17:40:01 -0500, gonjah gonjah.net wrote:
On 5/1/2012 4:06 PM, AJL wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2012 10:33:03 -0500, *wrote:


I've had quite a few people come out and
work for me and so far I've gotten my money's worth.
Trouble is, how do you know for sure you're not being scammed? Unless
you know the technology of what's being fixed (car, AC, TV, ect) you
pretty much have to take the repair guys word. And if you do know the
technology then you'd probably fix it yourself anyway...


I think you have a point but I ask a lot of questions during and before
work takes place. I can't express how important it is to do your
homework before having anyone come out.


I always like to watch them do the work. But they probably secretly
charge me extra for the privilege so I may not be any ahead...

WTS: I keep my eye on them and I always check references, thoroughly.
Heck a few years back they ran a sting on the automotive repair shop
at the local Sears store. They were routinely cheating the customers!
If you can't trust Sears... 8-O


I've never gone to sears for "repairs". Only tires and batteries.


I guess my point was that who would you normally trust, the scuzy
local garage or the upstanding Sears Corporation? I was wrong. I now
know you can't trust anyone.


Yes, I remember that one too. Sears had a big crisis
over that one. It wasn't just one or two Sears locations
that got caught either.
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Default Central heat and air condition will not stop blowing

On May 1, 10:41*pm, gonjah gonjah.net wrote:
On 5/1/2012 9:28 PM, AJL wrote:





On Tue, 01 May 2012 17:40:01 -0500, gonjahgonjah.net *wrote:


On 5/1/2012 4:06 PM, AJL wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2012 10:33:03 -0500, * wrote:


I've had quite a few people come out and
work for me and so far I've gotten my money's worth.
Trouble is, how do you know for sure you're not being scammed? Unless
you know the technology of what's being fixed (car, AC, TV, ect) you
pretty much have to take the repair guys word. And if you do know the
technology then you'd probably fix it yourself anyway...
I think you have a point but I ask a lot of questions during and before
work takes place. I can't express how important it is to do your
homework before having anyone come out.

I always like to watch them do the work. But they probably secretly
charge me extra for the privilege so I may not be any ahead...


WTS: I keep my eye on them and I always check references, thoroughly..
Heck a few years back they ran a sting on the automotive repair shop
at the local Sears store. They were routinely cheating the customers!
If you can't trust Sears... 8-O
I've never gone to sears for "repairs". Only tires and batteries.

I guess my point was that who would you normally trust, the scuzy
local garage or the upstanding Sears Corporation? I was wrong. I now
know you can't trust anyone.


I wouldn't trust Sears to do repairs so I guess I'm not following. I try
to stay away from dealers too.


Of course you're not following, because as usual
your dense as a brick. You claimed that you didn't
think scamming happened much because companies
are honest and have their reputations to lose.
AJL offered up Sears as a classic example of
a company caught defrauding customers in
their service dept.

And if you apply your logic, why would you stay
away from dealers? Aren't they prime examples
of your case of small businesses that would be
honest because they have reputations at stake?






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Default Central heat and air condition will not stop blowing

On May 1, 11:49*pm, "
wrote:
On Tue, 1 May 2012 13:44:08 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:





On May 1, 8:40*am, "
wrote:
On May 1, 2:45*am, gonjah gonjah.net wrote:


On 4/30/2012 8:48 PM, cjt wrote:


On 04/30/2012 10:41 AM, Tamara Lynn wrote:
"Ed *wrote:


"Tamara *wrote in message
I was told about 16 years ago when I bought the house that the Lennox
central heat and air was on its last leg. *I am glad I have waited
this
long.


I have been cheated nearly every time a service 'professional'
comes out.
One drove a half a mile, slammed the doors shut and billed me $85
for 5
minutes of work. *I am a single mother, now unemployed and can't
afford a
new unit at this time. *But it is on my wish list...after the
election,
when I hope to be able to get a job. :-)


T
Once you get working, think about a new unit. *It may pay for itself
with
energy savings.


Oh, that tech worked more than five minutes, unless he lived next door.
And he has a lot of costs to maintain that truck and tools. *In this
area,
it is about $120 to ring the doorbell.


As I said above, it's on my wish list. *I had two bids to buy one at the
time I lost my job. *I have to live on meager savings, because my child
support is more than $367 per month, which means no foods stamps or
healthcare.


As to $120 to ring the bell, well that is pure bull****. *Not only am
I an
accountant, but have owned and ran several businesses over 25 years.
I am
not going to break down the costs for you, but he was practically
next door.
The one before him lied about a pound on the freon.


I may be a female, but I am not an idiot.lol


HVAC seems to attract crooks, IMHO.


Conjecture you can't back up with any meaningful stats. Fact is, most of
these techs work for companies that have no interest in screwing anybody
because they live an die by their reputations just like any business..- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Statistics? * I doubt there are any statistics and
how you would get any would take quite an effort.
It's not like traffic deaths where they are clear and
logged.


I have seen enough undercover and sting operations
over the years to believe that there are in fact plenty
of scammers. * Someone posted a link on here a couple
years ago to an undercover TV investigation in
Phoenix where they had two experts verify that an
AC system was working perfectly. *Then they just
pulled out the fuse disconnect slightly and called
4 companies they picked out of the phone book.
Two told the lady who was the homeowner that
the system was shot, couldn't be fixed,
and needed to be replaced. One of those even
stated that it wasn't a voltage problem because
he measured 240V at the compressor. *Of the other
two, one reinserted the disconnect and charged for
the call. *The last one did the same, but refused to
charge anything.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


That reminds of the time I was an instructor in an electronics
training lab while in the USCG. My job was to break the equipment and
have the students troubleshoot it back to life.


An o-scope was required test equipment and one test required a trigger
signal from the equipment in order to get a display on the scope.


I used to pull the fuse from the back of the scope and watch the
students try to get it working. Oft times they would assume the
trigger signal wasn't present in the equipment and decide that the
board that produced the trigger was bad. As soon as they asked for a
"trigger board" replacement it was points off their grade, but I'd
give them a new one anyway.


I'd eventually point to the scope and ask if they saw anythng
interesting about the power-on LED, which of course, was off.


A friend of my uncle's taught a course quite similar to what you describe.. *At
the time it was tube televisions and they'd simulate the problems by clipping
a pin off a tube somewhere. *Pretty soon, the students would catch on and pull
all the tubes looking for the missing pin. *Ok, so they stopped that by
deducting points for every tube pulled. *Some years later, he saw one of his
former students at work, pulling tubes and counting pins.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


My favorite story was years ago when I was in college.
There was an electronics shop in Cambride, MA,
that sold a lot of surplus,
used stuff as well as some new. I needed a couple of
IC's for a project and bought them from this place,
mostly because they had them and they were not
something you could get at RadioShack, etc.

So, despite trying everything, I can't get them to
work. I finally take them back and the owner is
telling me how it's impossible they could be bad,
he only sells new, fully tested ICs, etc. Finally
he agrees to give me two new ones. Right in
front of me he takes the two ICs I just returned
and tosses them back in the bin with the other
ones..... If you follow that process to it's logical
conclusion, eventually the bin will be 100% bad
ICs.

The replacements did not work either. I finally
had to go to one of the major distributors to
get them and those worked with no problem.
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