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#41
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Central heat and air condition will not stop blowing
On May 1, 11:33*am, gonjah wrote:
On 5/1/2012 9:51 AM, wrote: On May 1, 10:26 am, *wrote: On 5/1/2012 7:40 AM, wrote: On May 1, 2:45 am, gonjahgonjah.net * *wrote: On 4/30/2012 8:48 PM, cjt wrote: On 04/30/2012 10:41 AM, Tamara Lynn wrote: "Ed * * *wrote: "Tamara * * *wrote in message I was told about 16 years ago when I bought the house that the Lennox central heat and air was on its last leg. *I am glad I have waited this long. I have been cheated nearly every time a service 'professional' comes out. One drove a half a mile, slammed the doors shut and billed me $85 for 5 minutes of work. *I am a single mother, now unemployed and can't afford a new unit at this time. *But it is on my wish list...after the election, when I hope to be able to get a job. :-) T Once you get working, think about a new unit. *It may pay for itself with energy savings. Oh, that tech worked more than five minutes, unless he lived next door. And he has a lot of costs to maintain that truck and tools. *In this area, it is about $120 to ring the doorbell. As I said above, it's on my wish list. *I had two bids to buy one at the time I lost my job. *I have to live on meager savings, because my child support is more than $367 per month, which means no foods stamps or healthcare. As to $120 to ring the bell, well that is pure bull****. *Not only am I an accountant, but have owned and ran several businesses over 25 years. I am not going to break down the costs for you, but he was practically next door. The one before him lied about a pound on the freon. I may be a female, but I am not an idiot.lol HVAC seems to attract crooks, IMHO. Conjecture you can't back up with any meaningful stats. Fact is, most of these techs work for companies that have no interest in screwing anybody because they live an die by their reputations just like any business..- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Statistics? * I doubt there are any statistics and how you would get any would take quite an effort. It's not like traffic deaths where they are clear and logged. That's what I said. "Conjecture you can't back up with any meaningful stats." Just as you can't back up your claim that they are inherently honest. *There are plenty of contractors out there that make a career of screwing customers. Examples being the home improvement guys that contract to do a bathroom, take customers money, do some half-assed work with no permits, then disappear. *And that happens plenty of times. I don't think statistics are necessary. *Life experience is enough in cases like this. Yeah, is see your point. Maybe a glass half full/empty type of thing too. I basically trust people until they screw me which might be why I get so upset when they do. But from my experiences, here at least, I'd give Central Texans a higher than average score for honesty. I've had quite a few people come out and work for me and so far I've gotten my money's worth. WTS: I keep my eye on them and I always check references, thoroughly.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - One of the best examples of crooks I saw was with a car. I used to work for a large company and those of us in the field had company cars. At the end of the company lease we could buy them for a real good deal. My GF at the time needed a car and one of my co-workers had a Pontiac with about 70K miles on it that was coming off lease. So, she wound up buying it. About a year later, the ABS light was on. She took it to a local dealer. She also told them that the power steering made a noise. They investigated and told her the on board computer was shot and the PS was leaking. Total to fix $1300. I immediately smelled a rat. I asked her what noise she was complaining about. It was a little noise when you turn the steering wheel to one extreme or the other. I've seen lots of cars do that and IMO it's perfectly normal. I asked her is she saw any PS fluid on the garage floor and the answer was no. I looked underneath, all over and no evidence of anythiing leaking. I talked to my co-worker and he told me that he had a problem with a wheel sensor and which dealer he had taken it to. I had her take the car there. Their diagnosis: one bad wheel sensor. Cost her about $150 to have it fixed. Now, it's very hard to explain this in any way other than the first dealer being a crook. That car has two main computers. One for the enginer and one for the ABS. Both read out extensive codes. For the ABS it will tell you on each wheel if a sensor is open, shorted, etc. It also has a self diagnostic that will tell if the ABS computer is shot. So, it's impossible for me to believe that was a simple case of the wrong diagnosis. And she kept the car for another 3 years with no PS leaking and the PS continuing to function just fine. The only part of this I can't understand is how they can pull it off. It requires at least some of the employees to be in on it and you would think that sooner or later one of them would get ****ed off and rat them out. On the other hand, one way of pulling it off indirectly would be to compensate the mechanics based on the total repair bill. That way, the dealer isn't directly telling them to pad bills, but just incentivizing them to do it. |
#42
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Central heat and air condition will not stop blowing
On May 1, 8:40*am, "
wrote: On May 1, 2:45*am, gonjah gonjah.net wrote: On 4/30/2012 8:48 PM, cjt wrote: On 04/30/2012 10:41 AM, Tamara Lynn wrote: "Ed *wrote: "Tamara *wrote in message I was told about 16 years ago when I bought the house that the Lennox central heat and air was on its last leg. *I am glad I have waited this long. I have been cheated nearly every time a service 'professional' comes out. One drove a half a mile, slammed the doors shut and billed me $85 for 5 minutes of work. *I am a single mother, now unemployed and can't afford a new unit at this time. *But it is on my wish list...after the election, when I hope to be able to get a job. :-) T Once you get working, think about a new unit. *It may pay for itself with energy savings. Oh, that tech worked more than five minutes, unless he lived next door. And he has a lot of costs to maintain that truck and tools. *In this area, it is about $120 to ring the doorbell. As I said above, it's on my wish list. *I had two bids to buy one at the time I lost my job. *I have to live on meager savings, because my child support is more than $367 per month, which means no foods stamps or healthcare. As to $120 to ring the bell, well that is pure bull****. *Not only am I an accountant, but have owned and ran several businesses over 25 years. I am not going to break down the costs for you, but he was practically next door. The one before him lied about a pound on the freon. I may be a female, but I am not an idiot.lol HVAC seems to attract crooks, IMHO. Conjecture you can't back up with any meaningful stats. Fact is, most of these techs work for companies that have no interest in screwing anybody because they live an die by their reputations just like any business.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Statistics? * I doubt there are any statistics and how you would get any would take quite an effort. It's not like traffic deaths where they are clear and logged. I have seen enough undercover and sting operations over the years to believe that there are in fact plenty of scammers. * Someone posted a link on here a couple years ago to an undercover TV investigation in Phoenix where they had two experts verify that an AC system was working perfectly. *Then they just pulled out the fuse disconnect slightly and called 4 companies they picked out of the phone book. Two told the lady who was the homeowner that the system was shot, couldn't be fixed, and needed to be replaced. One of those even stated that it wasn't a voltage problem because he measured 240V at the compressor. *Of the other two, one reinserted the disconnect and charged for the call. *The last one did the same, but refused to charge anything.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - That reminds of the time I was an instructor in an electronics training lab while in the USCG. My job was to break the equipment and have the students troubleshoot it back to life. An o-scope was required test equipment and one test required a trigger signal from the equipment in order to get a display on the scope. I used to pull the fuse from the back of the scope and watch the students try to get it working. Oft times they would assume the trigger signal wasn't present in the equipment and decide that the board that produced the trigger was bad. As soon as they asked for a "trigger board" replacement it was points off their grade, but I'd give them a new one anyway. I'd eventually point to the scope and ask if they saw anythng interesting about the power-on LED, which of course, was off. |
#43
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Central heat and air condition will not stop blowing
On Tue, 01 May 2012 10:33:03 -0500, gonjah wrote:
I've had quite a few people come out and work for me and so far I've gotten my money's worth. Trouble is, how do you know for sure you're not being scammed? Unless you know the technology of what's being fixed (car, AC, TV, ect) you pretty much have to take the repair guys word. And if you do know the technology then you'd probably fix it yourself anyway... WTS: I keep my eye on them and I always check references, thoroughly. Heck a few years back they ran a sting on the automotive repair shop at the local Sears store. They were routinely cheating the customers! If you can't trust Sears... 8-O |
#44
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Central heat and air condition will not stop blowing
On 5/1/2012 4:06 PM, AJL wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2012 10:33:03 -0500, wrote: I've had quite a few people come out and work for me and so far I've gotten my money's worth. Trouble is, how do you know for sure you're not being scammed? Unless you know the technology of what's being fixed (car, AC, TV, ect) you pretty much have to take the repair guys word. And if you do know the technology then you'd probably fix it yourself anyway... I think you have a point but I ask a lot of questions during and before work takes place. I can't express how important it is to do your homework before having anyone come out. WTS: I keep my eye on them and I always check references, thoroughly. Heck a few years back they ran a sting on the automotive repair shop at the local Sears store. They were routinely cheating the customers! If you can't trust Sears... 8-O I've never gone to sears for "repairs". Only tires and batteries. |
#45
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Central heat and air condition will not stop blowing
On 05/01/2012 01:45 AM, gonjah wrote:
On 4/30/2012 8:48 PM, cjt wrote: On 04/30/2012 10:41 AM, Tamara Lynn wrote: "Ed wrote: "Tamara wrote in message I was told about 16 years ago when I bought the house that the Lennox central heat and air was on its last leg. I am glad I have waited this long. I have been cheated nearly every time a service 'professional' comes out. One drove a half a mile, slammed the doors shut and billed me $85 for 5 minutes of work. I am a single mother, now unemployed and can't afford a new unit at this time. But it is on my wish list...after the election, when I hope to be able to get a job. :-) T Once you get working, think about a new unit. It may pay for itself with energy savings. Oh, that tech worked more than five minutes, unless he lived next door. And he has a lot of costs to maintain that truck and tools. In this area, it is about $120 to ring the doorbell. As I said above, it's on my wish list. I had two bids to buy one at the time I lost my job. I have to live on meager savings, because my child support is more than $367 per month, which means no foods stamps or healthcare. As to $120 to ring the bell, well that is pure bull****. Not only am I an accountant, but have owned and ran several businesses over 25 years. I am not going to break down the costs for you, but he was practically next door. The one before him lied about a pound on the freon. I may be a female, but I am not an idiot.lol HVAC seems to attract crooks, IMHO. Conjecture you can't back up with any meaningful stats. Fact is, most of these techs work for companies that have no interest in screwing anybody because they live an die by their reputations just like any business. It would certainly be interesting to see a study done. |
#46
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Central heat and air condition will not stop blowing
On Tue, 01 May 2012 17:40:01 -0500, gonjah gonjah.net wrote:
On 5/1/2012 4:06 PM, AJL wrote: On Tue, 01 May 2012 10:33:03 -0500, wrote: I've had quite a few people come out and work for me and so far I've gotten my money's worth. Trouble is, how do you know for sure you're not being scammed? Unless you know the technology of what's being fixed (car, AC, TV, ect) you pretty much have to take the repair guys word. And if you do know the technology then you'd probably fix it yourself anyway... I think you have a point but I ask a lot of questions during and before work takes place. I can't express how important it is to do your homework before having anyone come out. I always like to watch them do the work. But they probably secretly charge me extra for the privilege so I may not be any ahead... WTS: I keep my eye on them and I always check references, thoroughly. Heck a few years back they ran a sting on the automotive repair shop at the local Sears store. They were routinely cheating the customers! If you can't trust Sears... 8-O I've never gone to sears for "repairs". Only tires and batteries. I guess my point was that who would you normally trust, the scuzy local garage or the upstanding Sears Corporation? I was wrong. I now know you can't trust anyone. |
#47
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Central heat and air condition will not stop blowing
On 5/1/2012 9:28 PM, AJL wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2012 17:40:01 -0500, gonjahgonjah.net wrote: On 5/1/2012 4:06 PM, AJL wrote: On Tue, 01 May 2012 10:33:03 -0500, wrote: I've had quite a few people come out and work for me and so far I've gotten my money's worth. Trouble is, how do you know for sure you're not being scammed? Unless you know the technology of what's being fixed (car, AC, TV, ect) you pretty much have to take the repair guys word. And if you do know the technology then you'd probably fix it yourself anyway... I think you have a point but I ask a lot of questions during and before work takes place. I can't express how important it is to do your homework before having anyone come out. I always like to watch them do the work. But they probably secretly charge me extra for the privilege so I may not be any ahead... WTS: I keep my eye on them and I always check references, thoroughly. Heck a few years back they ran a sting on the automotive repair shop at the local Sears store. They were routinely cheating the customers! If you can't trust Sears... 8-O I've never gone to sears for "repairs". Only tires and batteries. I guess my point was that who would you normally trust, the scuzy local garage or the upstanding Sears Corporation? I was wrong. I now know you can't trust anyone. I wouldn't trust Sears to do repairs so I guess I'm not following. I try to stay away from dealers too. Just recently I took a tire to Firestone for repair and they ruined it then put it back on the car. The tire was low the next day and I went to Costco and bought a new tire. I took the Costco receipt to Firestone and they reimbursed me. That's pretty typical of the way things happen to me. Frustrating but it all seems to work out in the end. |
#48
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Central heat and air condition will not stop blowing
On Tue, 1 May 2012 13:44:08 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote: On May 1, 8:40*am, " wrote: On May 1, 2:45*am, gonjah gonjah.net wrote: On 4/30/2012 8:48 PM, cjt wrote: On 04/30/2012 10:41 AM, Tamara Lynn wrote: "Ed *wrote: "Tamara *wrote in message I was told about 16 years ago when I bought the house that the Lennox central heat and air was on its last leg. *I am glad I have waited this long. I have been cheated nearly every time a service 'professional' comes out. One drove a half a mile, slammed the doors shut and billed me $85 for 5 minutes of work. *I am a single mother, now unemployed and can't afford a new unit at this time. *But it is on my wish list...after the election, when I hope to be able to get a job. :-) T Once you get working, think about a new unit. *It may pay for itself with energy savings. Oh, that tech worked more than five minutes, unless he lived next door. And he has a lot of costs to maintain that truck and tools. *In this area, it is about $120 to ring the doorbell. As I said above, it's on my wish list. *I had two bids to buy one at the time I lost my job. *I have to live on meager savings, because my child support is more than $367 per month, which means no foods stamps or healthcare. As to $120 to ring the bell, well that is pure bull****. *Not only am I an accountant, but have owned and ran several businesses over 25 years. I am not going to break down the costs for you, but he was practically next door. The one before him lied about a pound on the freon. I may be a female, but I am not an idiot.lol HVAC seems to attract crooks, IMHO. Conjecture you can't back up with any meaningful stats. Fact is, most of these techs work for companies that have no interest in screwing anybody because they live an die by their reputations just like any business.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Statistics? * I doubt there are any statistics and how you would get any would take quite an effort. It's not like traffic deaths where they are clear and logged. I have seen enough undercover and sting operations over the years to believe that there are in fact plenty of scammers. * Someone posted a link on here a couple years ago to an undercover TV investigation in Phoenix where they had two experts verify that an AC system was working perfectly. *Then they just pulled out the fuse disconnect slightly and called 4 companies they picked out of the phone book. Two told the lady who was the homeowner that the system was shot, couldn't be fixed, and needed to be replaced. One of those even stated that it wasn't a voltage problem because he measured 240V at the compressor. *Of the other two, one reinserted the disconnect and charged for the call. *The last one did the same, but refused to charge anything.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - That reminds of the time I was an instructor in an electronics training lab while in the USCG. My job was to break the equipment and have the students troubleshoot it back to life. An o-scope was required test equipment and one test required a trigger signal from the equipment in order to get a display on the scope. I used to pull the fuse from the back of the scope and watch the students try to get it working. Oft times they would assume the trigger signal wasn't present in the equipment and decide that the board that produced the trigger was bad. As soon as they asked for a "trigger board" replacement it was points off their grade, but I'd give them a new one anyway. I'd eventually point to the scope and ask if they saw anythng interesting about the power-on LED, which of course, was off. A friend of my uncle's taught a course quite similar to what you describe. At the time it was tube televisions and they'd simulate the problems by clipping a pin off a tube somewhere. Pretty soon, the students would catch on and pull all the tubes looking for the missing pin. Ok, so they stopped that by deducting points for every tube pulled. Some years later, he saw one of his former students at work, pulling tubes and counting pins. |
#49
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Central heat and air condition will not stop blowing
On May 1, 10:28*pm, AJL wrote:
On Tue, 01 May 2012 17:40:01 -0500, gonjah gonjah.net wrote: On 5/1/2012 4:06 PM, AJL wrote: On Tue, 01 May 2012 10:33:03 -0500, *wrote: I've had quite a few people come out and work for me and so far I've gotten my money's worth. Trouble is, how do you know for sure you're not being scammed? Unless you know the technology of what's being fixed (car, AC, TV, ect) you pretty much have to take the repair guys word. And if you do know the technology then you'd probably fix it yourself anyway... I think you have a point but I ask a lot of questions during and before work takes place. I can't express how important it is to do your homework before having anyone come out. I always like to watch them do the work. But they probably secretly charge me extra for the privilege so I may not be any ahead... WTS: I keep my eye on them and I always check references, thoroughly. Heck a few years back they ran a sting on the automotive repair shop at the local Sears store. They were routinely cheating the customers! If you can't trust Sears... 8-O I've never gone to sears for "repairs". Only tires and batteries. I guess my point was that who would you normally trust, the scuzy local garage or the upstanding Sears Corporation? I was wrong. I now know you can't trust anyone. Yes, I remember that one too. Sears had a big crisis over that one. It wasn't just one or two Sears locations that got caught either. |
#50
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Central heat and air condition will not stop blowing
On May 1, 10:41*pm, gonjah gonjah.net wrote:
On 5/1/2012 9:28 PM, AJL wrote: On Tue, 01 May 2012 17:40:01 -0500, gonjahgonjah.net *wrote: On 5/1/2012 4:06 PM, AJL wrote: On Tue, 01 May 2012 10:33:03 -0500, * wrote: I've had quite a few people come out and work for me and so far I've gotten my money's worth. Trouble is, how do you know for sure you're not being scammed? Unless you know the technology of what's being fixed (car, AC, TV, ect) you pretty much have to take the repair guys word. And if you do know the technology then you'd probably fix it yourself anyway... I think you have a point but I ask a lot of questions during and before work takes place. I can't express how important it is to do your homework before having anyone come out. I always like to watch them do the work. But they probably secretly charge me extra for the privilege so I may not be any ahead... WTS: I keep my eye on them and I always check references, thoroughly.. Heck a few years back they ran a sting on the automotive repair shop at the local Sears store. They were routinely cheating the customers! If you can't trust Sears... 8-O I've never gone to sears for "repairs". Only tires and batteries. I guess my point was that who would you normally trust, the scuzy local garage or the upstanding Sears Corporation? I was wrong. I now know you can't trust anyone. I wouldn't trust Sears to do repairs so I guess I'm not following. I try to stay away from dealers too. Of course you're not following, because as usual your dense as a brick. You claimed that you didn't think scamming happened much because companies are honest and have their reputations to lose. AJL offered up Sears as a classic example of a company caught defrauding customers in their service dept. And if you apply your logic, why would you stay away from dealers? Aren't they prime examples of your case of small businesses that would be honest because they have reputations at stake? |
#51
Posted to alt.home.repair
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Central heat and air condition will not stop blowing
On May 1, 11:49*pm, "
wrote: On Tue, 1 May 2012 13:44:08 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03 wrote: On May 1, 8:40*am, " wrote: On May 1, 2:45*am, gonjah gonjah.net wrote: On 4/30/2012 8:48 PM, cjt wrote: On 04/30/2012 10:41 AM, Tamara Lynn wrote: "Ed *wrote: "Tamara *wrote in message I was told about 16 years ago when I bought the house that the Lennox central heat and air was on its last leg. *I am glad I have waited this long. I have been cheated nearly every time a service 'professional' comes out. One drove a half a mile, slammed the doors shut and billed me $85 for 5 minutes of work. *I am a single mother, now unemployed and can't afford a new unit at this time. *But it is on my wish list...after the election, when I hope to be able to get a job. :-) T Once you get working, think about a new unit. *It may pay for itself with energy savings. Oh, that tech worked more than five minutes, unless he lived next door. And he has a lot of costs to maintain that truck and tools. *In this area, it is about $120 to ring the doorbell. As I said above, it's on my wish list. *I had two bids to buy one at the time I lost my job. *I have to live on meager savings, because my child support is more than $367 per month, which means no foods stamps or healthcare. As to $120 to ring the bell, well that is pure bull****. *Not only am I an accountant, but have owned and ran several businesses over 25 years. I am not going to break down the costs for you, but he was practically next door. The one before him lied about a pound on the freon. I may be a female, but I am not an idiot.lol HVAC seems to attract crooks, IMHO. Conjecture you can't back up with any meaningful stats. Fact is, most of these techs work for companies that have no interest in screwing anybody because they live an die by their reputations just like any business..- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Statistics? * I doubt there are any statistics and how you would get any would take quite an effort. It's not like traffic deaths where they are clear and logged. I have seen enough undercover and sting operations over the years to believe that there are in fact plenty of scammers. * Someone posted a link on here a couple years ago to an undercover TV investigation in Phoenix where they had two experts verify that an AC system was working perfectly. *Then they just pulled out the fuse disconnect slightly and called 4 companies they picked out of the phone book. Two told the lady who was the homeowner that the system was shot, couldn't be fixed, and needed to be replaced. One of those even stated that it wasn't a voltage problem because he measured 240V at the compressor. *Of the other two, one reinserted the disconnect and charged for the call. *The last one did the same, but refused to charge anything.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - That reminds of the time I was an instructor in an electronics training lab while in the USCG. My job was to break the equipment and have the students troubleshoot it back to life. An o-scope was required test equipment and one test required a trigger signal from the equipment in order to get a display on the scope. I used to pull the fuse from the back of the scope and watch the students try to get it working. Oft times they would assume the trigger signal wasn't present in the equipment and decide that the board that produced the trigger was bad. As soon as they asked for a "trigger board" replacement it was points off their grade, but I'd give them a new one anyway. I'd eventually point to the scope and ask if they saw anythng interesting about the power-on LED, which of course, was off. A friend of my uncle's taught a course quite similar to what you describe.. *At the time it was tube televisions and they'd simulate the problems by clipping a pin off a tube somewhere. *Pretty soon, the students would catch on and pull all the tubes looking for the missing pin. *Ok, so they stopped that by deducting points for every tube pulled. *Some years later, he saw one of his former students at work, pulling tubes and counting pins.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - My favorite story was years ago when I was in college. There was an electronics shop in Cambride, MA, that sold a lot of surplus, used stuff as well as some new. I needed a couple of IC's for a project and bought them from this place, mostly because they had them and they were not something you could get at RadioShack, etc. So, despite trying everything, I can't get them to work. I finally take them back and the owner is telling me how it's impossible they could be bad, he only sells new, fully tested ICs, etc. Finally he agrees to give me two new ones. Right in front of me he takes the two ICs I just returned and tosses them back in the bin with the other ones..... If you follow that process to it's logical conclusion, eventually the bin will be 100% bad ICs. The replacements did not work either. I finally had to go to one of the major distributors to get them and those worked with no problem. |
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