Concrete Patio
 

I have a concrete patio that has a few cracks (minor) in it, plus some
rust stains.

Is there anything I can do to cover this up to enhance it?
I am thinking pavers, or some decorative rock, and not carpet or
painting over it. Also, hopefully, there is something I can do myself,
rather than hiring it done.

Thanks.

Kate

Concrete Patio
 

Kate wrote:
I have a concrete patio that has a few cracks (minor) in it, plus some
rust stains.

Is there anything I can do to cover this up to enhance it?
I am thinking pavers, or some decorative rock, and not carpet or
painting over it. Also, hopefully, there is something I can do
myself, rather than hiring it done.

Thanks.

Kate

You could do pavers or rock but it isn't real easy. Well, it is easy to do
but is hard work. You would have to work out some sort of edge restraint,
but down about an inch of bedding sand, lay the pavers, compact the pavers
and then sweep sand into the joints.

- OR -

You could get a bottle of CLR or other mild acid to remove the rust stains
and live with the minor cracking.

- ALSO -

Don't even think about putting a layer of colored, stamped concrete over
what you have now.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Concrete Patio
 

On Apr 4, 7:22*am, "dadiOH" wrote:
Kate wrote:
I have a concrete patio that has a few cracks (minor) in it, plus some
rust stains.

Is there anything I can do to cover this up to enhance it?
I am thinking pavers, or some decorative rock, and not carpet or
painting over it. *Also, hopefully, there is something I can do
myself, rather than hiring it done.

Thanks.

Kate

You could do pavers or rock but it isn't real easy. *Well, it is easy to do
but is hard work. *You would have to work out some sort of edge restraint,
but down about an inch of bedding sand, lay the pavers, compact the pavers
and then sweep sand into the joints.

* * - OR -

You could get a bottle of CLR or other mild acid to remove the rust stains
and live with the minor cracking.

* * - ALSO -

Don't even think about putting a layer of colored, stamped concrete over
what you have now.


+1 to the above. The main issue with pavers is the increase in height
due
to the pavers plus the sand. If that's a good thing or at least can
be
accomodated then it's a relatively easy solution. Another possible
choice
would be some kind of decorative stone, like slate cemented to the
concrete.

Concrete Patio
 

dadiOH wrote:

You could do pavers or rock but it isn't real easy. Well, it is easy
to do but is hard work. You would have to work out some sort of edge
restraint, but down about an inch of bedding sand, lay the pavers,
compact the pavers and then sweep sand into the joints.


???

Why do you need a foundation of sand, etc., if laying pavers over CONCRETE?
Isn't that much like putting down (ceramic) tile in the kitchen?

I'm thinking Sausalito(?) tile or similar.

Concrete Patio
 

HeyBub wrote:
dadiOH wrote:

You could do pavers or rock but it isn't real easy. Well, it is easy
to do but is hard work. You would have to work out some sort of edge
restraint, but down about an inch of bedding sand, lay the pavers,
compact the pavers and then sweep sand into the joints.


???

Why do you need a foundation of sand, etc., if laying pavers over
CONCRETE? Isn't that much like putting down (ceramic) tile in the
kitchen?
I'm thinking Sausalito(?) tile or similar.

Maybe if you set them in mortor. If you just lay them on concrete, they will
quickly start cracking. If you set them in mortor, thay will crack with the
concrete.

Concrete Patio
 

Do the cracks open and close as temps fluctuate? If so, then the sections of slab are not completely stable, relative to one another. Mortaring or quicksetting a layer of tile or stone over the slab would likely develope cracks along the original crack lines. If those cracks don't open and close, then adding a layer of tile or stone may be a good fix and a good alternative.

I have a back patio that had a single crack, which opened and closed with temp fluctuations. Using a circular saw with a mason blade, I sawed the crack along the crack line as deep as I could, making a 1/8" to 3/16" wide kerf. I collected the scrap granite, marble, and other stone (the odd pieces they were to discard) from the local countertop/granite outlet, and laid them onto the patio, i.e., a random mosaic application. I did not load the kerf gap with mortar. I wanted that spacing to remain, to allow for any expansion & contraction. I grouted and cleaned the top as you would when laying ceramic tile. Some stone is slippery when wet, so I applied a nonslip sealant to the surface. So for, so good, after 4 years.

Some of the edge stones, especially where the "path" is most used, have been loosened, a bit, because I didn't take good enough care of/for a secure edging, an edging restraint as DadiOH advises. A possible way to remedy my scenario, as I plan to try, is to drill holes in the slab so the mortar better adheres to the original slab.

The increase in elevation of the patio, relative to the house, is about 1" for the mosaics plus 1/2" for the mortar layer. This increase didn't affect any other "systems" associated with the scenario. Prior to committing to this patio fix, I did evaluate everything, to see if some aspects/"systems" would be affected by the increase in elevation. I felt there would be no sigificant affects. So I would suggest you would need to evaluate your scenario if you would consider this approach.

It was a lot of work doing all that, including going fetch all the stone pieces, cleaning them (some needed cleaning), evaluating setting up stuff (some things I didn't anticipate or anticipate properly), sorting the pieces (for placement.... some pieces were a little thicker than others, also), mixing my own mortar, etc. My patio is 14'X 34'. It turned out nice, though. *My mother's front foyer is mosaic laid with stone pieces, this way.... that is where I got the idea to do a mosaic application on my patio.

I don't see why laying any stone or brick wouldn't work, as long as the slab sections don't expand and contract (too much?) and if the increase in elevation wouldn't be a problem.

Speculating: If there would remain an issue of expansion/contraction, such that a new crack or cracks would develope, then when planning the project, you could lay the stone so that a grout line would be along or near a previous crack line. When a new crack would develope in the new layer, it could be dug out and regrouted. I didn't think about this when I planned or did my patio, but I think I could easily regrout mine, if this issue occurred..

Regarding the salvaging of the broken/scrap/discarded granite, marble, stone pieces: There are 3 outlets, here, and only one allowed me to "dumpster dive". It's a good idea to ask before helping yourself.

Sonny

Concrete Patio
 

On Apr 4, 8:51*am, "HeyBub" wrote:
dadiOH wrote:

You could do pavers or rock but it isn't real easy. *Well, it is easy
to do but is hard work. *You would have to work out some sort of edge
restraint, but down about an inch of bedding sand, lay the pavers,
compact the pavers and then sweep sand into the joints.

???

Why do you need a foundation of sand, etc., if laying pavers over CONCRETE?

That's an interesting question. If the concrete isn't perfectly
level, the sand would give you the
ability to level them. I would think it would help with
water drainage too. I guess if it's perfectly level you
could lay them right on the concrete.


Isn't that much like putting down (ceramic) tile in the kitchen?

I'm thinking Sausalito(?) tile or similar.

In that case you have the thinset which is about 1/4" or
3/8" under the tiles to level them.

Concrete Patio
 

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...
dadiOH wrote:

You could do pavers or rock but it isn't real easy. Well, it is easy
to do but is hard work. You would have to work out some sort of edge
restraint, but down about an inch of bedding sand, lay the pavers,
compact the pavers and then sweep sand into the joints.


???

Why do you need a foundation of sand, etc., if laying pavers over
CONCRETE? Isn't that much like putting down (ceramic) tile in the kitchen?

Think of tiling over an irregularly flat surface, and you will have your
answer. It will follow all the whoop de doos on the surface.


I'm thinking Sausalito(?) tile or similar.


I'm thinking clean it up with CLR or whatever, power wash, and paint.
PourStone in the cracks after they have the dirt blasted out of them. Paint
over PourStone doesn't really look all that bad.

Steve

Concrete Patio
 

On 4/4/2012 10:26 AM, Steve B wrote:
wrote in message
m...
dadiOH wrote:

You could do pavers or rock but it isn't real easy. Well, it is easy
to do but is hard work. You would have to work out some sort of edge
restraint, but down about an inch of bedding sand, lay the pavers,
compact the pavers and then sweep sand into the joints.


???

Why do you need a foundation of sand, etc., if laying pavers over
CONCRETE? Isn't that much like putting down (ceramic) tile in the kitchen?

Think of tiling over an irregularly flat surface, and you will have your
answer. It will follow all the whoop de doos on the surface.


I'm thinking Sausalito(?) tile or similar.


I'm thinking clean it up with CLR or whatever, power wash, and paint.
PourStone in the cracks after they have the dirt blasted out of them. Paint
over PourStone doesn't really look all that bad.

Steve


Just saw this on Yard Crashers yesterday. They used some process (sorry
I didn't get the name) where you mix epoxy goo, spread it, and then put
some small, slightly larger than pea sized rocks in the epoxy. They
said you do one bucket at a time because of the cure time. It looked
really nice when finished.

Concrete Patio
 

On Apr 4, 5:36*am, Kate wrote:
I have a concrete patio that has a few cracks (minor) in it, plus some
rust stains.

Is there anything I can do to cover this up to enhance it?
I am thinking pavers, or some decorative rock, and not carpet or
painting over it. *Also, hopefully, there is something I can do myself,
rather than hiring it done.

Thanks.

Kate

What about "decking" it with composite decking? Trex, Veranda, etc.

I'm about to do some quick repairs to a concrete stoop (caulk some
cracks, etc,) and then cap the whole thing in grey Veranda composite
decking sitting on some pressure treated sleepers.

Some of the newer composites (Veranda, for example) have "scalloped"
bottoms, so I'm going to breadboard the edges to hide the undersides
of the material.

Concrete Patio
 

On 4/4/2012 6:20 AM, Bob F wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
dadiOH wrote:

You could do pavers or rock but it isn't real easy. Well, it is easy
to do but is hard work. You would have to work out some sort of edge
restraint, but down about an inch of bedding sand, lay the pavers,
compact the pavers and then sweep sand into the joints.


???

Why do you need a foundation of sand, etc., if laying pavers over
CONCRETE? Isn't that much like putting down (ceramic) tile in the
kitchen?
I'm thinking Sausalito(?) tile or similar.

Maybe if you set them in mortor. If you just lay them on concrete, they will
quickly start cracking. If you set them in mortor, thay will crack with the
concrete.



you'd put down an anti-fracture surface first.

you're thinking of saltillo tiles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltillo_tile

Concrete Patio
 

On 4/4/2012 9:19 AM, wrote:
On Wed, 04 Apr 2012 12:00:50 -0400, Art
wrote:

Just saw this on Yard Crashers yesterday. They used some process (sorry
I didn't get the name) where you mix epoxy goo, spread it, and then put
some small, slightly larger than pea sized rocks in the epoxy. They
said you do one bucket at a time because of the cure time. It looked
really nice when finished.

They call that river rock here and it looks great when it is new but
after a few years you are back there putting more epoxy on it. After a
while you are cussing and ripping it out. It was all the rage 20 years
ago and I don't know a single person who did it then who still has it.

epoxystone

http://www.epoxystoneinc.com/

i had it in my last house. the epoxy breaks down in the sun, and you
have to (expensively) recoat it with fresh epoxy every few years. it is
also HOT on bare feet if it gets direct sun, but is a lot cooler than
bare concrete around a pool.

Concrete Patio
 

Bob F wrote:
HeyBub wrote:
dadiOH wrote:

You could do pavers or rock but it isn't real easy. Well, it is
easy to do but is hard work. You would have to work out some sort
of edge restraint, but down about an inch of bedding sand, lay the
pavers, compact the pavers and then sweep sand into the joints.


???

Why do you need a foundation of sand, etc., if laying pavers over
CONCRETE? Isn't that much like putting down (ceramic) tile in the
kitchen?
I'm thinking Sausalito(?) tile or similar.

Maybe if you set them in mortor. If you just lay them on concrete,
they will quickly start cracking. If you set them in mortor, thay
will crack with the concrete.

Exactly

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Concrete Patio
 

HeyBub wrote:
dadiOH wrote:

You could do pavers or rock but it isn't real easy. Well, it is easy
to do but is hard work. You would have to work out some sort of edge
restraint, but down about an inch of bedding sand, lay the pavers,
compact the pavers and then sweep sand into the joints.


???

Why do you need a foundation of sand, etc., if laying pavers over
CONCRETE? Isn't that much like putting down (ceramic) tile in the
kitchen?
I'm thinking Sausalito(?) tile or similar.

Saltillo? Not really meant for outside, has to be set in mortar, will crack
with the slab.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
....a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico

Concrete Patio
 

On Apr 4, 4:36*am, Kate wrote:
I have a concrete patio that has a few cracks (minor) in it, plus some
rust stains.

Is there anything I can do to cover this up to enhance it?
I am thinking pavers, or some decorative rock, and not carpet or
painting over it. *Also, hopefully, there is something I can do myself,
rather than hiring it done.

Thanks.

Kate

Our local Menards Hardware store has a couple of types of weatherproof
interlocking squares of some type of plastic/rubber-like material that
you could lay directly over the patio. I would hit the big box stores
in your area and see what is available.

Concrete Patio
 

Kate writes:

I have a concrete patio that has a few cracks (minor) in it, plus some
rust stains.

Is there anything I can do to cover this up to enhance it?
I am thinking pavers, or some decorative rock, and not carpet or
painting over it. Also, hopefully, there is something I can do
myself, rather than hiring it done.

Concrete isn't repairable.

Putting something on top will probably come with issues.

I can tell you what I did:

1. Rent electric air hammer, break cement into pieces.
2. Call carting company and have rubble removed.
3. Dig to required depth and lay rock dust and sand.
4. Pack with rented vibrating compactor.
5. Lay pavers on top.

Lots of little details like edging, getting the right run off, etc.
But assuming you don't want a hack job...

--
Dan Espen

Concrete Patio
 

On 4/4/2012 4:54 AM, wrote:
On Apr 4, 7:22 am, wrote:
Kate wrote:
I have a concrete patio that has a few cracks (minor) in it, plus some
rust stains.

Is there anything I can do to cover this up to enhance it?
I am thinking pavers, or some decorative rock, and not carpet or
painting over it. Also, hopefully, there is something I can do
myself, rather than hiring it done.

Thanks.

Kate

You could do pavers or rock but it isn't real easy. Well, it is easy to do
but is hard work. You would have to work out some sort of edge restraint,
but down about an inch of bedding sand, lay the pavers, compact the pavers
and then sweep sand into the joints.

- OR -

You could get a bottle of CLR or other mild acid to remove the rust stains
and live with the minor cracking.

- ALSO -

Don't even think about putting a layer of colored, stamped concrete over
what you have now.


+1 to the above. The main issue with pavers is the increase in height
due
to the pavers plus the sand. If that's a good thing or at least can
be
accomodated then it's a relatively easy solution. Another possible
choice
would be some kind of decorative stone, like slate cemented to the
concrete.

Thanks for this great info. I have some CLR and will try it.

Concrete Patio
 

On 4/4/2012 6:24 AM, wrote:
Do the cracks open and close as temps fluctuate? If so, then the sections of slab are not completely stable, relative to one another. Mortaring or quicksetting a layer of tile or stone over the slab would likely develope cracks along the original crack lines. If those cracks don't open and close, then adding a layer of tile or stone may be a good fix and a good alternative.

I have a back patio that had a single crack, which opened and closed with temp fluctuations. Using a circular saw with a mason blade, I sawed the crack along the crack line as deep as I could, making a 1/8" to 3/16" wide kerf. I collected the scrap granite, marble, and other stone (the odd pieces they were to discard) from the local countertop/granite outlet, and laid them onto the patio, i.e., a random mosaic application. I did not load the kerf gap with mortar. I wanted that spacing to remain, to allow for any expansion& contraction. I grouted and cleaned the top as you would when laying ceramic tile. Some stone is slippery when wet, so I applied a nonslip sealant to the surface. So for, so good, after 4 years.

Some of the edge stones, especially where the "path" is most used, have been loosened, a bit, because I didn't take good enough care of/for a secure edging, an edging restraint as DadiOH advises. A possible way to remedy my scenario, as I plan to try, is to drill holes in the slab so the mortar better adheres to the original slab.

The increase in elevation of the patio, relative to the house, is about 1" for the mosaics plus 1/2" for the mortar layer. This increase didn't affect any other "systems" associated with the scenario. Prior to committing to this patio fix, I did evaluate everything, to see if some aspects/"systems" would be affected by the increase in elevation. I felt there would be no sigificant affects. So I would suggest you would need to evaluate your scenario if you would consider this approach.

It was a lot of work doing all that, including going fetch all the stone pieces, cleaning them (some needed cleaning), evaluating setting up stuff (some things I didn't anticipate or anticipate properly), sorting the pieces (for placement.... some pieces were a little thicker than others, also), mixing my own mortar, etc. My patio is 14'X 34'. It turned out nice, though. *My mother's front foyer is mosaic laid with stone pieces, this way.... that is where I got the idea to do a mosaic application on my patio.

I don't see why laying any stone or brick wouldn't work, as long as the slab sections don't expand and contract (too much?) and if the increase in elevation wouldn't be a problem.

Speculating: If there would remain an issue of expansion/contraction, such that a new crack or cracks would develope, then when planning the project, you could lay the stone so that a grout line would be along or near a previous crack line. When a new crack would develope in the new layer, it could be dug out and regrouted. I didn't think about this when I planned or did my patio, but I think I could easily regrout mine, if this issue occurred.

Regarding the salvaging of the broken/scrap/discarded granite, marble, stone pieces: There are 3 outlets, here, and only one allowed me to "dumpster dive". It's a good idea to ask before helping yourself.

Sonny
No the cracks do not open and close, so I am fortunate in that regard.

I have seen places at home shows that use stones, etc. I think that may
be a route to take. I don't think I could personally do that type of
hard work. Great ideas, with thanks.

Concrete Patio
 

On 4/4/2012 9:26 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Apr 4, 5:36 am, wrote:
I have a concrete patio that has a few cracks (minor) in it, plus some
rust stains.

Is there anything I can do to cover this up to enhance it?
I am thinking pavers, or some decorative rock, and not carpet or
painting over it. Also, hopefully, there is something I can do myself,
rather than hiring it done.

Thanks.

Kate

What about "decking" it with composite decking? Trex, Veranda, etc.

I'm about to do some quick repairs to a concrete stoop (caulk some
cracks, etc,) and then cap the whole thing in grey Veranda composite
decking sitting on some pressure treated sleepers.

Some of the newer composites (Veranda, for example) have "scalloped"
bottoms, so I'm going to breadboard the edges to hide the undersides
of the material.
What a neat idea. I like Trex too. But, what is a sleeper? Some type
of support? Thanks.

Concrete Patio
 

On 4/4/2012 11:17 AM, hr(bob) wrote:
On Apr 4, 4:36 am, wrote:
I have a concrete patio that has a few cracks (minor) in it, plus some
rust stains.

Is there anything I can do to cover this up to enhance it?
I am thinking pavers, or some decorative rock, and not carpet or
painting over it. Also, hopefully, there is something I can do myself,
rather than hiring it done.

Thanks.

Kate

Our local Menards Hardware store has a couple of types of weatherproof
interlocking squares of some type of plastic/rubber-like material that
you could lay directly over the patio. I would hit the big box stores
in your area and see what is available.
Thanks. I could probably do that myself, too.

Concrete Patio
 

On Apr 5, 4:11*am, Kate wrote:
On 4/4/2012 9:26 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:



On Apr 4, 5:36 am, *wrote:
I have a concrete patio that has a few cracks (minor) in it, plus some
rust stains.

Is there anything I can do to cover this up to enhance it?
I am thinking pavers, or some decorative rock, and not carpet or
painting over it. *Also, hopefully, there is something I can do myself,
rather than hiring it done.

Thanks.

Kate

What about "decking" it with composite decking? Trex, Veranda, etc.

I'm about to do some quick repairs to a concrete stoop (caulk some
cracks, etc,) and then cap the whole thing in grey Veranda composite
decking sitting on some pressure treated sleepers.

Some of the newer composites (Veranda, for example) have "scalloped"
bottoms, so I'm going to breadboard the edges to hide the undersides
of the material.

What a neat idea. *I like Trex too. *But, what is a sleeper? *Some type
of support? *Thanks.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Don't just consider Trex. There are lots of other brands of composite
decking available now, so shop around for a color and style that you
like.

A deck is usually built on wooden joists, which are attached to beams.
When laying a deck on concrete, "sleepers" take the place of joists
since the wooden supports lie directly on the slab. I believe the term
sleeper came from the fact that a 2x4 is often laid on its side,
although the term has expanded to mean any type of support laid
directly on a flat surface.

Sleepers allow for air circulation under the decking as well as
allowing for shiming or trimming of individual sleepers to make sure
there is a level (or pitched) surface.

I would suggest pressure treated or other rot/insect related material.

You didn't ask about my use of the term "breadboard". Do you know what
that is?

Concrete Patio
 

On 4/4/2012 4:36 AM, Kate wrote:
I have a concrete patio that has a few cracks (minor) in it, plus some
rust stains.

Is there anything I can do to cover this up to enhance it?
I am thinking pavers, or some decorative rock, and not carpet or
painting over it. Also, hopefully, there is something I can do myself,
rather than hiring it done.

Thanks.

Kate


Kate, you can glue brick to it with plastic roof cement and then broom
sand into all the joints. This will make a very serviceable surface.

There are many toppings designed for concrete. They will require a good
clean surface. Here is plenty of information from one of the best in
the business:
http://www.thestampstore.com/
make sure to look through their gallery. Stain may provide the look you
seek, but there are certainly overlays which give an entirely new surface.

--


___________________________________

Keep the whole world singing . . .
Dan G
remove the seven

Concrete Patio
 

On Thu, 05 Apr 2012 18:49:53 -0500, DanG wrote:

On 4/4/2012 4:36 AM, Kate wrote:
I have a concrete patio that has a few cracks (minor) in it, plus some
rust stains.

Is there anything I can do to cover this up to enhance it?
I am thinking pavers, or some decorative rock, and not carpet or
painting over it. Also, hopefully, there is something I can do myself,
rather than hiring it done.

Thanks.

Kate


Kate, you can glue brick to it with plastic roof cement and then broom
sand into all the joints. This will make a very serviceable surface.

There are many toppings designed for concrete. They will require a good
clean surface. Here is plenty of information from one of the best in
the business:
http://www.thestampstore.com/
make sure to look through their gallery. Stain may provide the look you
seek, but there are certainly overlays which give an entirely new surface.

Kate, are these "hairline" cracks across the pad? Are these cracks in
the "relief" cuts in the pad? The stain idea in a good option. Some
cosmetic fixes to the cracks and then stain the pad. You Tube has
some videos about doing it with a garden sprayer. You can make the
patio any color / pattern you like. A clear seal will prevent the
stain from rapid wear n tear.