In northern Illinois where I live, electricity is provided by ComEd.
However ComEd is really two companies. One delivers electricity and
the other generates electricity. In my last bill, that portion that
was billed for "Electricity Supply Services" accounted for only 55
percent of the total bill. As the guy who writes the checks, the
simple formula I use is Total Cost / kWh. This comes out to $0.149 per
kWh. On the bill the stated cost of a kWh is only $0.06968.

On 3/14/2012 9:56 AM, Edge wrote:
In northern Illinois where I live, electricity is provided by ComEd.
However ComEd is really two companies. One delivers electricity and
the other generates electricity. In my last bill, that portion that
was billed for "Electricity Supply Services" accounted for only 55
percent of the total bill. As the guy who writes the checks, the
simple formula I use is Total Cost / kWh. This comes out to $0.149 per
kWh. On the bill the stated cost of a kWh is only $0.06968.

Thats pretty common and standard practice after utilities were deregulated.

Our NG bill is in the same format, so much for the gas and then so much
for the cost of delivering it.

On Mar 14, 7:56 am, Edge wrote:
In northern Illinois where I live, electricity is provided by ComEd.
However ComEd is really two companies. One delivers electricity and
the other generates electricity. In my last bill, that portion that
was billed for "Electricity Supply Services" accounted for only 55
percent of the total bill. As the guy who writes the checks, the
simple formula I use is Total Cost / kWh. This comes out to $0.149 per
kWh. On the bill the stated cost of a kWh is only $0.06968.

I agree with your assessment as far as your bill goes. However,
if you use ONE additional kwh, what is the additional cost ? I bet
it works out to .069 cents.

In my area, the bill has a "fixed" cost, whether I use any or not,
and
a "useage" cost, which is based on the number of kwh I use.

If I use NO electric power for that month, my cost per kwh using your
reckoning would be infinite. It's not unfair, just ambiguous. A
power
company has to cover it's fixed cost whether you turn on your lights
or not, since you want it to always be at the ready.

I think 14.9 cents per kwh is a bit on the high side, but not
unreasonabley so.

On Mar 14, 9:44*am, Bob123 wrote:
On Mar 14, 7:56 am, Edge wrote:

I agree with your assessment as far as your bill goes. *However,
if you use ONE additional kwh, what is the additional cost ? *I bet
it works out to .069 cents.


The distribution cost on my bill is also based on the number of kWh
used. It goes up with usage. It is not a fixed cost.

Anyway, the reason I brought this topic up was an article that I read
comparing cost/mile driven in an electric car versus a gasoline
powered car. The advocates of electric cars used the nominal cost of a
kWh to make it appear that electric cars are much cheaper to operate.
(In my case, .069 vs .149). Also when I fill up my car at the gas
station, I know that a large portion of a gallon of gas goes to taxes
and a road repair fund. Are owners of electric cars getting a free
ride on this also?

Edge wrote:
In northern Illinois where I live, electricity is provided by ComEd.
However ComEd is really two companies. One delivers electricity and
the other generates electricity. In my last bill, that portion that
was billed for "Electricity Supply Services" accounted for only 55
percent of the total bill. As the guy who writes the checks, the
simple formula I use is Total Cost / kWh. This comes out to $0.149 per
kWh. On the bill the stated cost of a kWh is only $0.06968.
Hi,
Same here in Alberta. 7 cents/Kwh but there are so many this and that
charges, real billed price is ~double that. Same with water. They keep
inventing new service charges to add.

"Edge" wrote in message
...
On Mar 14, 9:44 am, Bob123 wrote:
On Mar 14, 7:56 am, Edge wrote:

I agree with your assessment as far as your bill goes. However,
if you use ONE additional kwh, what is the additional cost ? I bet
it works out to .069 cents.


The distribution cost on my bill is also based on the number of kWh
used. It goes up with usage. It is not a fixed cost.

Anyway, the reason I brought this topic up was an article that I read
comparing cost/mile driven in an electric car versus a gasoline
powered car. The advocates of electric cars used the nominal cost of a
kWh to make it appear that electric cars are much cheaper to operate.
(In my case, .069 vs .149). Also when I fill up my car at the gas
station, I know that a large portion of a gallon of gas goes to taxes
and a road repair fund. Are owners of electric cars getting a free
ride on this also?

Yes, those few owners of totally electric cars are not paying any road taxes
as they are collected at the gasoline pump; but they are paying taxes on
their higher use of electricity. The tax laws will have to be revised to
correct the imbalance at some point, but similar things happen when you buy
merchandise on line and pay no sales taxes vs. buying at a local store where
sales taxes are added.

Because of deregulation, electric rates are no longer fixed, but vary
month-by-month with a generation charge and fees plus a
transportation/service charge and fees. Take your total bill and divide by
the kWh that were used to find your rate for the month. That's the true
rate because that's what you actually pay.

Tomsic

On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 07:44:18 -0700 (PDT), Bob123
wrote:

On Mar 14, 7:56 am, Edge wrote:
In northern Illinois where I live, electricity is provided by ComEd.
However ComEd is really two companies. One delivers electricity and
the other generates electricity. In my last bill, that portion that
was billed for "Electricity Supply Services" accounted for only 55
percent of the total bill. As the guy who writes the checks, the
simple formula I use is Total Cost / kWh. This comes out to $0.149 per
kWh. On the bill the stated cost of a kWh is only $0.06968.

I agree with your assessment as far as your bill goes. However,
if you use ONE additional kwh, what is the additional cost ? I bet
it works out to .069 cents.


Not in my neck of the woods. Here's my breakdown- [National Grid-
upstate NY]
It cost me $185.59 for 1493kWh
Basic service- 15.21
Delivery .05973x1493=80.59
[then + $2 or so for a series of adjustments, assessments, word
salads, taxes and tariffs]
Supply .04633 x 1493 -- $69.17
[and a merchant function and 'ESRM' based on kWh- $8.15]
plus sales tax $3.

So, although they can honestly say they are charging 4.633 cents per
kWh -- I am paying about 12.4 cents-- and will pay most of that if I
use one more kWh.

[and I'm not complaining-- The power grid should be a benevolent,
well regulated monopoly, IMO.]

Jim

On 3/14/2012 10:09 AM, Edge wrote:
On Mar 14, 9:44 am, wrote:
On Mar 14, 7:56 am, wrote:

I agree with your assessment as far as your bill goes. However,
if you use ONE additional kwh, what is the additional cost ? I bet
it works out to .069 cents.


The distribution cost on my bill is also based on the number of kWh
used. It goes up with usage. It is not a fixed cost.

Anyway, the reason I brought this topic up was an article that I read
comparing cost/mile driven in an electric car versus a gasoline
powered car. The advocates of electric cars used the nominal cost of a
kWh to make it appear that electric cars are much cheaper to operate.
(In my case, .069 vs .149). Also when I fill up my car at the gas
station, I know that a large portion of a gallon of gas goes to taxes
and a road repair fund. Are owners of electric cars getting a free
ride on this also?


Oh, just wait till the politicians start howling for road use taxes for
electric vehicles. I know that some states require all interstate trucks
to have receipts showing that fuel was purchased in that state when the
truck goes through a weigh station.

TDD

On 03/14/2012 08:56 AM, Edge wrote:
In northern Illinois where I live, electricity is provided by ComEd.
However ComEd is really two companies. One delivers electricity and
the other generates electricity. In my last bill, that portion that
was billed for "Electricity Supply Services" accounted for only 55
percent of the total bill. As the guy who writes the checks, the
simple formula I use is Total Cost / kWh. This comes out to $0.149 per
kWh. On the bill the stated cost of a kWh is only $0.06968.

That's the way I figure it (amount of bill / amount used). I skip all
the fake costs (before the add the many fees and taxes). Like your
example, there can be a big difference between what they say the rate is
and what it actually is.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.us

"I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed
because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do." [D.
Dale Gulledge]

On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 06:56:45 -0700 (PDT), Edge
wrote:

In northern Illinois where I live, electricity is provided by ComEd.
However ComEd is really two companies. One delivers electricity and
the other generates electricity. In my last bill, that portion that
was billed for "Electricity Supply Services" accounted for only 55
percent of the total bill. As the guy who writes the checks, the
simple formula I use is Total Cost / kWh. This comes out to $0.149 per
kWh. On the bill the stated cost of a kWh is only $0.06968.



If it makes it less painful, just bend over and take it grin. Most
appliances I see which try to calculate electric useage of late, seem
to use 10 or 11 cents kWh. You got me curious now to see how much up
the _ss I'm taking it of late. I'll try to follow up on this post
and report back what I'm paying outside of Houston. We do have a
choice of electric providers around here but IMO they don't differ
that much.

On 3/14/2012 8:29 AM, Tomsic wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Mar 14, 9:44 am, wrote:
On Mar 14, 7:56 am, wrote:

I agree with your assessment as far as your bill goes. However,
if you use ONE additional kwh, what is the additional cost ? I bet
it works out to .069 cents.


The distribution cost on my bill is also based on the number of kWh
used. It goes up with usage. It is not a fixed cost.

Anyway, the reason I brought this topic up was an article that I read
comparing cost/mile driven in an electric car versus a gasoline
powered car. The advocates of electric cars used the nominal cost of a
kWh to make it appear that electric cars are much cheaper to operate.
(In my case, .069 vs .149). Also when I fill up my car at the gas
station, I know that a large portion of a gallon of gas goes to taxes
and a road repair fund. Are owners of electric cars getting a free
ride on this also?

Yes, those few owners of totally electric cars are not paying any road taxes
as they are collected at the gasoline pump; but they are paying taxes on
their higher use of electricity. The tax laws will have to be revised to
correct the imbalance at some point, but similar things happen when you buy
merchandise on line and pay no sales taxes vs. buying at a local store where
sales taxes are added.

unless they're using solar to recharge their cars, in which case, their
tases paid could be pretty close to 0, or even negative if they're
putting more into the network rather than taking it out.


Because of deregulation, electric rates are no longer fixed, but vary
month-by-month with a generation charge and fees plus a
transportation/service charge and fees. Take your total bill and divide by
the kWh that were used to find your rate for the month. That's the true
rate because that's what you actually pay.

Tomsic

"Edge" wrote in message ...
On Mar 14, 9:44 am, Bob123 wrote:
On Mar 14, 7:56 am, Edge wrote:

I agree with your assessment as far as your bill goes. However,
if you use ONE additional kwh, what is the additional cost ? I bet
it works out to .069 cents.


The distribution cost on my bill is also based on the number of kWh
used. It goes up with usage. It is not a fixed cost.

Anyway, the reason I brought this topic up was an article that I read
comparing cost/mile driven in an electric car versus a gasoline
powered car. The advocates of electric cars used the nominal cost of a
kWh to make it appear that electric cars are much cheaper to operate.
(In my case, .069 vs .149). Also when I fill up my car at the gas
station, I know that a large portion of a gallon of gas goes to taxes
and a road repair fund. Are owners of electric cars getting a free
ride on this also?

You know that a large portion of,
a electric cars of kWh will go on a New Road taxes,
for a road repair fund.

Now is see why USA GOV. likes electric cars
for if you to Poor and do not Owen a car.

But we all way be pay that Taxes at a fixed cost,
if you have a car your not!!!!!!!!!

On Mar 14, 8:29*am, "Tomsic" wrote:
...snip....
correct the imbalance at some point, but similar things happen when you buy
merchandise on line and pay no sales taxes vs. buying at a local store where
sales taxes are added.
...snip....

In California, when you file your state income tax there's a section
to voluntarily state the amount of purchases you have made through tax
free outlets and you are then required to pay the sales tax for all
those items.





....STOP LAUGHING!

On Mar 14, 11:44*am, Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 03/14/2012 08:56 AM, Edge wrote:

In northern Illinois where I live, electricity is provided by ComEd.
However ComEd is really two companies. One delivers electricity and
the other generates electricity. In my last bill, that portion that
was billed for "Electricity Supply Services" accounted for only 55
percent of the total bill. As the guy who writes the checks, the
simple formula I use is Total Cost / kWh. This comes out to $0.149 per
kWh. On the bill the stated cost of a kWh is only $0.06968.

That's the way I figure it (amount of bill / amount used). I skip all
the fake costs (before the add the many fees and taxes). Like your
example, there can be a big difference between what they say the rate is
and what it actually is.

--
Mark Lloydhttp://notstupid.us

"I am treated as evil by people who claim that they are being oppressed
because they are not allowed to force me to practice what they do." [D.
Dale Gulledge]

I don't know who the "they" is that you're referring to. But as
someone pointed out earlier, since they reduced some regulation
and invited more competition in many places, it's not unusual
for the electric to be billed in two parts, one for generation and
the other for delivery. You can even choose to buy your electric
generation from multiple sources here in NJ. And the
bill is perfectly clear and easy to understand.

On Mar 14, 7:44*am, Bob123 wrote:
On Mar 14, 7:56 am, Edge wrote:

In northern Illinois where I live, electricity is provided by ComEd.
However ComEd is really two companies. One delivers electricity and
the other generates electricity. In my last bill, that portion that
was billed for "Electricity Supply Services" accounted for only 55
percent of the total bill. As the guy who writes the checks, the
simple formula I use is Total Cost / kWh. This comes out to $0.149 per
kWh. On the bill the stated cost of a kWh is only $0.06968.

I agree with your assessment as far as your bill goes. *However,
if you use ONE additional kwh, what is the additional cost ? *I bet
it works out to .069 cents.

In my area, the bill has a "fixed" cost, whether I use any or not,
and
a "useage" cost, which is based on the number of kwh I use.

If I use NO electric power for that month, my cost per kwh using your
reckoning would be infinite. *It's not unfair, just ambiguous. A
power
company has to cover it's fixed cost whether you turn on your lights
or not, since you want it to always be at the ready.

I think 14.9 cents per kwh is a bit on the high side, but not
unreasonabley so.

Check out that 'fixed' cost. It may be for them to 'make power
available', thus when they fail on that contract, you should NOT have
to pay.

When I lived in California [in one of the mildest climates in the
world] we paid approx $300/mo for electricity for two people in a
house with gas hot water and heating! one fridge, no freezer. I think
they figured out how to charge what the market will bear. The
utilities company got so greedy that they quit repariing and fixing
their infrastructure, so transformers were blowing up regularly and
the slightest windstorm would knock trees down causing power outages.
It was a national disgrace - highest rates with the highest number of
outages in the US.

Anyway, to hype the bill the utilities company started that long list
of itemization with one of those charges for "making available" power
so everytime one of those tiny winds came up and blew down a tree and
we had an outage I DEMANDED A REFUND FOR THAT CHARGE based upon the
fact that they had failed to perform and it is illegal in the US to
collect for services NOT rendered. I got it, $0.06 credit for the
power being off for 24 hours, but once customers started demanding
their money back for failure to perform, suddenly there was money to
repair the infrastructure and the outages diminished to more
acceptable levels. I found out later that the movement to demand
refund cost the utitlities company something in excess of several
$100,000's every event. Probably included employee time to manually
adjust each bill!

Now I live in AZ, where the builders seem to think electricity is
free! the way they put in appliances, lighting, and stuff! Just
noticed that everytime the news starts to carry comments about the
high price of electricity, we suddenly have a power outage. Lasts
about two hours, just long enough to make you panic and realize WE
NEED POWER!, but not long enough time to destroy your food in the
fridge, etc. ...and the news stories stop. Now, you just have to ask
yourself, "Do I believe in coincidences?"

On Mar 14, 9:56*am, Edge wrote:
In northern Illinois where I live, electricity is provided by ComEd.
However ComEd is really two companies. One delivers electricity and
the other generates electricity. In my last bill, that portion that
was billed for "Electricity Supply Services" accounted for only 55
percent of the total bill. As the guy who writes the checks, the
simple formula I use is Total Cost / kWh. This comes out to $0.149 per
kWh. On the bill the stated cost of a kWh is only $0.06968.

2 different items were purchased:

Electricity at $0.06968 / kWh
Delivery Services at $0.07932 / kWh

There's nothing wrong or even misleading on your bill. The cost of a
kWh of electricity is $0.06968.

When you buy something on eBay, did you pay $50 for the item and $6.95
for shipping or did you pay $56.95 for the item?

I submit that you paid $50 *for the item* even though your total cost
was $56.95.

It may be nothing more than numerical semantics, but since different
parts of the purchase may be budgeted for and/or taxed differently,
they really do need to be separated out.

"Edge" wrote in message
...
In northern Illinois where I live, electricity is provided by ComEd.
However ComEd is really two companies. One delivers electricity and
the other generates electricity. In my last bill, that portion that
was billed for "Electricity Supply Services" accounted for only 55
percent of the total bill. As the guy who writes the checks, the
simple formula I use is Total Cost / kWh. This comes out to $0.149 per
kWh. On the bill the stated cost of a kWh is only $0.06968.

With all added extras our cost is $0.1389 per KWH WW

On Mar 14, 1:07*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Mar 14, 9:56*am, Edge wrote:

In northern Illinois where I live, electricity is provided by ComEd.
However ComEd is really two companies. One delivers electricity and
the other generates electricity. In my last bill, that portion that
was billed for "Electricity Supply Services" accounted for only 55
percent of the total bill. As the guy who writes the checks, the
simple formula I use is Total Cost / kWh. This comes out to $0.149 per
kWh. On the bill the stated cost of a kWh is only $0.06968.

2 different items were purchased:

Electricity at $0.06968 / kWh
Delivery Services at $0.07932 / kWh

There's nothing wrong or even misleading on your bill. The cost of a
kWh of electricity is $0.06968.

When you buy something on eBay, did you pay $50 for the item and $6.95
for shipping or did you pay $56.95 for the item?

I submit that you paid $50 *for the item* even though your total cost
was $56.95.

It may be nothing more than numerical semantics, but since different
parts of the purchase may be budgeted for and/or taxed differently,
they really do need to be separated out.

In at least some places they can also come from different
suppliers. Here in NJ you have a choice of several companies that
you can choose to purchase the generation portion from. One of
them is the regulated utility that also handles the distribution
portion.
The others are independent companies. So even though the same
wires bring the electricity into your house, the source could be one
of the new competitors.

Like you say, I don't see anything shady or confusing about it.
It's very clear on my bill what the two seperate charges are for.

" wrote in news:8014092c-
:

On Mar 14, 1:07*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Mar 14, 9:56*am, Edge wrote:

In northern Illinois where I live, electricity is provided by ComEd.
However ComEd is really two companies. One delivers electricity and
the other generates electricity. In my last bill, that portion that
was billed for "Electricity Supply Services" accounted for only 55
percent of the total bill. As the guy who writes the checks, the
simple formula I use is Total Cost / kWh. This comes out to $0.149
per
kWh. On the bill the stated cost of a kWh is only $0.06968.

2 different items were purchased:

Electricity at $0.06968 / kWh
Delivery Services at $0.07932 / kWh

There's nothing wrong or even misleading on your bill. The cost of a
kWh of electricity is $0.06968.

When you buy something on eBay, did you pay $50 for the item and $6.95
for shipping or did you pay $56.95 for the item?

I submit that you paid $50 *for the item* even though your total cost
was $56.95.

It may be nothing more than numerical semantics, but since different
parts of the purchase may be budgeted for and/or taxed differently,
they really do need to be separated out.

In at least some places they can also come from different
suppliers. Here in NJ you have a choice of several companies that
you can choose to purchase the generation portion from. One of
them is the regulated utility that also handles the distribution
portion.
The others are independent companies. So even though the same
wires bring the electricity into your house, the source could be one
of the new competitors.

Like you say, I don't see anything shady or confusing about it.
It's very clear on my bill what the two seperate charges are for.

I'm in NJ as well, and our total cost here is higher than in Chicago(?),
almost 19c/kWh here in PSE&G territory. And the costs are clearly
specified as mentioned.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Mar 14, 1:22*pm, "
wrote:
On Mar 14, 1:07*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:





On Mar 14, 9:56*am, Edge wrote:

In northern Illinois where I live, electricity is provided by ComEd.
However ComEd is really two companies. One delivers electricity and
the other generates electricity. In my last bill, that portion that
was billed for "Electricity Supply Services" accounted for only 55
percent of the total bill. As the guy who writes the checks, the
simple formula I use is Total Cost / kWh. This comes out to $0.149 per
kWh. On the bill the stated cost of a kWh is only $0.06968.

2 different items were purchased:

Electricity at $0.06968 / kWh
Delivery Services at $0.07932 / kWh

There's nothing wrong or even misleading on your bill. The cost of a
kWh of electricity is $0.06968.

When you buy something on eBay, did you pay $50 for the item and $6.95
for shipping or did you pay $56.95 for the item?

I submit that you paid $50 *for the item* even though your total cost
was $56.95.

It may be nothing more than numerical semantics, but since different
parts of the purchase may be budgeted for and/or taxed differently,
they really do need to be separated out.

In at least some places they can also come from different
suppliers. *Here in NJ you have a choice of several companies that
you can choose to purchase the generation portion from. *One of
them is the regulated utility that also handles the distribution
portion.
The others are independent companies. *So even though the same
wires bring the electricity into your house, the source could be one
of the new competitors.

Like you say, I don't see anything shady or confusing about it.
It's very clear on my bill what the two seperate charges are for.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Same where I live. I can buy my electricity and gas from a few
different suppliers, but it always gets delivered by the lone utility
company in the area.

No one has ever been able to explain to me how they know which kWh
hours are mine so that the ones I'm paying for end up in my panel. Are
they bar coded or something?

DerbyDad03 wrote in news:01a5824b-f6e2-4a39-9c0e-
:

No one has ever been able to explain to me how they know which kWh
hours are mine so that the ones I'm paying for end up in my panel. Are
they bar coded or something?

LOL! No, but the utility has to buy your kWh from somewhere (if you
specify another company), or generate them (if you don't).

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Mar 14, 1:36*pm, Han wrote:
DerbyDad03 wrote in news:01a5824b-f6e2-4a39-9c0e-
:

No one has ever been able to explain to me how they know which kWh
hours are mine so that the ones I'm paying for end up in my panel. Are
they bar coded or something?

LOL! *No, but the utility has to buy your kWh from somewhere (if you
specify another company), or generate them (if you don't).

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

....or generate it all, sell it to the other company (on paper, of
course) and then deliver it to me.

Since many of these "other companies" simply buy the energy that they
sell on the wholesale market, the same utility that delivers it to me
may have the best wholesale prices at any given time.

On 3/14/2012 10:32 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Mar 14, 1:22 pm,
wrote:
On Mar 14, 1:07 pm, wrote:





On Mar 14, 9:56 am, wrote:

In northern Illinois where I live, electricity is provided by ComEd.
However ComEd is really two companies. One delivers electricity and
the other generates electricity. In my last bill, that portion that
was billed for "Electricity Supply Services" accounted for only 55
percent of the total bill. As the guy who writes the checks, the
simple formula I use is Total Cost / kWh. This comes out to $0.149 per
kWh. On the bill the stated cost of a kWh is only $0.06968.

2 different items were purchased:

Electricity at $0.06968 / kWh
Delivery Services at $0.07932 / kWh

There's nothing wrong or even misleading on your bill. The cost of a
kWh of electricity is $0.06968.

When you buy something on eBay, did you pay $50 for the item and $6.95
for shipping or did you pay $56.95 for the item?

I submit that you paid $50 *for the item* even though your total cost
was $56.95.

It may be nothing more than numerical semantics, but since different
parts of the purchase may be budgeted for and/or taxed differently,
they really do need to be separated out.

In at least some places they can also come from different
suppliers. Here in NJ you have a choice of several companies that
you can choose to purchase the generation portion from. One of
them is the regulated utility that also handles the distribution
portion.
The others are independent companies. So even though the same
wires bring the electricity into your house, the source could be one
of the new competitors.

Like you say, I don't see anything shady or confusing about it.
It's very clear on my bill what the two seperate charges are for.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Same where I live. I can buy my electricity and gas from a few
different suppliers, but it always gets delivered by the lone utility
company in the area.

No one has ever been able to explain to me how they know which kWh
hours are mine so that the ones I'm paying for end up in my panel. Are
they bar coded or something?

you can tell because they taste differently

On Mar 14, 12:07*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:
On Mar 14, 9:56*am, Edge wrote:

In northern Illinois where I live, electricity is provided by ComEd.
However ComEd is really two companies. One delivers electricity and
the other generates electricity. In my last bill, that portion that
was billed for "Electricity Supply Services" accounted for only 55
percent of the total bill. As the guy who writes the checks, the
simple formula I use is Total Cost / kWh. This comes out to $0.149 per
kWh. On the bill the stated cost of a kWh is only $0.06968.

2 different items were purchased:

Electricity at $0.06968 / kWh
Delivery Services at $0.07932 / kWh

There's nothing wrong or even misleading on your bill. The cost of a
kWh of electricity is $0.06968.

When you buy something on eBay, did you pay $50 for the item and $6.95
for shipping or did you pay $56.95 for the item?

I submit that you paid $50 *for the item* even though your total cost
was $56.95.

It may be nothing more than numerical semantics, but since different
parts of the purchase may be budgeted for and/or taxed differently,
they really do need to be separated out.

I have bought many items off Ebay. Sometimes I see an item I am
interested for say - $20 with free shipping. Another seller may list
exactly the same item for $.01 but charge $19.99 for shipping. If you
bought the item for $.01, do you actually believe you didn't pay $20.
What comes out of your pocket is what comes out your pocket. Don't
psych yourself or pretend it is only numerical semantics.

On Mar 14, 3:04*pm, Edge wrote:
On Mar 14, 12:07*pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:









On Mar 14, 9:56*am, Edge wrote:

In northern Illinois where I live, electricity is provided by ComEd.
However ComEd is really two companies. One delivers electricity and
the other generates electricity. In my last bill, that portion that
was billed for "Electricity Supply Services" accounted for only 55
percent of the total bill. As the guy who writes the checks, the
simple formula I use is Total Cost / kWh. This comes out to $0.149 per
kWh. On the bill the stated cost of a kWh is only $0.06968.

2 different items were purchased:

Electricity at $0.06968 / kWh
Delivery Services at $0.07932 / kWh

There's nothing wrong or even misleading on your bill. The cost of a
kWh of electricity is $0.06968.

When you buy something on eBay, did you pay $50 for the item and $6.95
for shipping or did you pay $56.95 for the item?

I submit that you paid $50 *for the item* even though your total cost
was $56.95.

It may be nothing more than numerical semantics, but since different
parts of the purchase may be budgeted for and/or taxed differently,
they really do need to be separated out.

I have bought many items off Ebay. Sometimes I see an item I am
interested for say - $20 with free shipping. Another seller may list
exactly the same item for $.01 but charge $19.99 for shipping. If you
bought the item for $.01, do you actually believe you didn't pay $20.
What comes out of your pocket *is what comes out your pocket. Don't
psych yourself or pretend it is only numerical semantics.

I never said - and would never say - that I didn't pay $20.

I specifically added the asterisks around the words *for the item*.

If I paid $20 with free shipping, then I paid $20 *for the item*.

If I paid $.01 with $19.99 for shipping, then I paid $.01 *for the
item* and $19.99 for shipping.

You paid $0.06968 *for the item* - a kWh.

The rest of your cost was for the delivery of said item.

You did not pay $0.149 for the kWh which is why that price was not
what was listed on your bill.

"DerbyDad03" wrote in message
...
On Mar 14, 1:22 pm, "
wrote:
On Mar 14, 1:07 pm, DerbyDad03 wrote:





On Mar 14, 9:56 am, Edge wrote:

In northern Illinois where I live, electricity is provided by ComEd.
However ComEd is really two companies. One delivers electricity and
the other generates electricity. In my last bill, that portion that
was billed for "Electricity Supply Services" accounted for only 55
percent of the total bill. As the guy who writes the checks, the
simple formula I use is Total Cost / kWh. This comes out to $0.149 per
kWh. On the bill the stated cost of a kWh is only $0.06968.

2 different items were purchased:

Electricity at $0.06968 / kWh
Delivery Services at $0.07932 / kWh

There's nothing wrong or even misleading on your bill. The cost of a
kWh of electricity is $0.06968.

When you buy something on eBay, did you pay $50 for the item and $6.95
for shipping or did you pay $56.95 for the item?

I submit that you paid $50 *for the item* even though your total cost
was $56.95.

It may be nothing more than numerical semantics, but since different
parts of the purchase may be budgeted for and/or taxed differently,
they really do need to be separated out.

In at least some places they can also come from different
suppliers. Here in NJ you have a choice of several companies that
you can choose to purchase the generation portion from. One of
them is the regulated utility that also handles the distribution
portion.
The others are independent companies. So even though the same
wires bring the electricity into your house, the source could be one
of the new competitors.

Like you say, I don't see anything shady or confusing about it.
It's very clear on my bill what the two seperate charges are for.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Same where I live. I can buy my electricity and gas from a few
different suppliers, but it always gets delivered by the lone utility
company in the area.

No one has ever been able to explain to me how they know which kWh
hours are mine so that the ones I'm paying for end up in my panel. Are
they bar coded or something?

No. Your name is assigned to the kWh as they come tumbling out of the
generator. It's one of those things about electricity -- it has to be used
the instant its generated - no exceptions. It sure keeps the folks at the
power house busy making and keeping track of those assignments, however.

Tomsic

Edge wrote:
In northern Illinois where I live, electricity is provided by ComEd.
However ComEd is really two companies. One delivers electricity and
the other generates electricity. In my last bill, that portion that
was billed for "Electricity Supply Services" accounted for only 55
percent of the total bill. As the guy who writes the checks, the
simple formula I use is Total Cost / kWh. This comes out to $0.149 per
kWh. On the bill the stated cost of a kWh is only $0.06968.

You could save a great deal of money by picking up your electricity at the
generating station.

On second thought, probably not.

Lot of farmers do that.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"HeyBub" wrote in message
m...

You could save a great deal of money by picking up your electricity at the
generating station.

On second thought, probably not.

They get about as much compliance as the assault weapon registration days?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..

"Robert Macy" wrote in message
...

In California, when you file your state income tax there's a section
to voluntarily state the amount of purchases you have made through tax
free outlets and you are then required to pay the sales tax for all
those items.





....STOP LAUGHING!

Edge wrote:
In northern Illinois where I live, electricity is provided by ComEd.
However ComEd is really two companies. One delivers electricity and
the other generates electricity. In my last bill, that portion that
was billed for "Electricity Supply Services" accounted for only 55
percent of the total bill. As the guy who writes the checks, the
simple formula I use is Total Cost / kWh. This comes out to $0.149 per
kWh. On the bill the stated cost of a kWh is only $0.06968.

Our rates change with the seasons, summer tacks on extra as you go
over some set amount, then there is a winter rate that remains fixed and
spring and fall rates. Soon we are to get smart meters then there will
be extra charges during peak use hours in the summer. Some day I'm
going to get around to putting the kil-a-watt on the big screen and try
to determine what that thing actually costs to run 24/7.

WW wrote:

With all added extras our cost is $0.1389 per KWH

Which is really only useful information if we know where you live.

Which appears to be in (or near) Purchase, NY (in Westchester County).

On Mar 14, 12:23*pm, Robert Macy wrote:
On Mar 14, 8:29*am, "Tomsic" wrote:

...snip....
correct the imbalance at some point, but similar things happen when you buy
merchandise on line and pay no sales taxes vs. buying at a local store where
sales taxes are added.
...snip....

In California, when you file your state income tax there's a section
to voluntarily state the amount of purchases you have made through tax
free outlets and you are then required to pay the sales tax for all
those items.

...STOP LAUGHING!

Why would we laugh? Many states do essentially the same thing. In NY
they call it a "Use Tax". It's for items that, for example, you bought
on the internet and didn't pay taxes on. NY actually makes it easy on
you by "suggesting" an amount based on the data in your return. You
have the option to change it or leave it as it is. Of course, if you
get audited, you'd have to explain the amount used.

Last year, I was helping my college-age daughter do her taxes. She
made less than $3000 and the software package I used suggested $8 as
the Use Tax. Since most of what she bought was over the internet, I
just left it alone.

A few days after filing, I got a notice that NYS found an error on her
return. They set the Use Tax to $0 and increased her refund by $8.

On 3/14/2012 9:56 AM, Edge wrote:
In northern Illinois where I live, electricity is provided by ComEd.
However ComEd is really two companies. One delivers electricity and
the other generates electricity. In my last bill, that portion that
was billed for "Electricity Supply Services" accounted for only 55
percent of the total bill. As the guy who writes the checks, the
simple formula I use is Total Cost / kWh. This comes out to $0.149 per
kWh. On the bill the stated cost of a kWh is only $0.06968.


Here is a copy of my bill from Dec 13th to Feb 13th

Ontario Canada. Basically a CDN Dollar is equal to a US Dollar these days.

HST is a 13% sales tax
Ontario Clean Energy Benefit is a Government refund for using Solar or
Wind, basically buying votes
Debt Retirement charge is to help the Utility pay off all the money it
borrowed from the Government to build 5 nuclear power plants.

Off peak is electricity used from 7 pm to 7 am weekdays and all
day/night weekends

Mid peak is 11am to 5pm weekdays

On peak is 7am to 11am and 5pm to 7pm Weekdays

My house is two adults and 1 baby, 1700 sq feet 1967 side-split bungalow
with gas dryer/gas stove oven/gas furance/ gas water heater



--------
Your Electricity Charges


OFF Peak @ 6.2¢ 943.64 kwhr $58.51
MID Peak @ 9.2¢ 192.07 kwhr $17.67
ON Peak @ 10.8¢ 250.78 kwhr $27.08
Delivery Charge $62.30
Regulatory Charge $9.54
Debt Retirement Charge 1,320.62 kwhr $9.24
Total Electricity Charges $184.34
HST $23.96
Subtotal $208.30
Ontario Clean Energy Benefit (-10%) 20.83CR


Region Water Charges (Residential)
Service Charge mtr size 20 MM $44.64
Consumption Charge 31.00 cubic metres $56.87
Total Halton Region Water Charges $101.51

On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 16:47:43 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
wrote:

On Mar 14, 12:23*pm, Robert Macy wrote:
On Mar 14, 8:29*am, "Tomsic" wrote:

...snip....
correct the imbalance at some point, but similar things happen when you buy
merchandise on line and pay no sales taxes vs. buying at a local store where
sales taxes are added.
...snip....

In California, when you file your state income tax there's a section
to voluntarily state the amount of purchases you have made through tax
free outlets and you are then required to pay the sales tax for all
those items.

...STOP LAUGHING!

Why would we laugh? Many states do essentially the same thing. In NY
they call it a "Use Tax". It's for items that, for example, you bought
on the internet and didn't pay taxes on. NY actually makes it easy on
you by "suggesting" an amount based on the data in your return. You
have the option to change it or leave it as it is. Of course, if you
get audited, you'd have to explain the amount used.

Last year, I was helping my college-age daughter do her taxes. She
made less than $3000 and the software package I used suggested $8 as
the Use Tax. Since most of what she bought was over the internet, I
just left it alone.

A few days after filing, I got a notice that NYS found an error on her
return. They set the Use Tax to $0 and increased her refund by $8.

"Use" tax originated as the means to recover taxes from nominally tax-exempt
transactions that are taxable. An example would be a stationary store's use
of a ream of paper. Normally the paper is exempt from taxes because it is
taxed at sale. Since the store *used* it, it's no longer exempt, so is taxed.
A sale in another state can't be taxed but its *USE* within the state can. So,
if you buy an item in Vegas, and it stays in Vegas, there is no tax in your
state. If you bring it home and USE it, then it is taxed.

I should add that we had blower issues with our furance and had to run
the blower 24/7 for about 2 weeks which drove up our bill about $20 and
we had to heat our home with a bunch of 1500 Watt electric heaters for 3
days which prolly added about $15 to our bill. Our normal winter bill
is about $170.00

"Home Guy" wrote in message ...
WW wrote:

With all added extras our cost is $0.1389 per KWH

Which is really only useful information if we know where you live.

Which appears to be in (or near) Purchase, NY (in Westchester County).


Central Colorado WW

WW wrote:

Which appears to be in (or near) Purchase, NY.

Central Colorado WW

Ah, another spectacular failure of ip-2-location (which located you
based on the headquarters of the real owners of your ISP).

Robert Macy wrote:
On Mar 14, 8:29 am, "Tomsic" wrote:
...snip....
correct the imbalance at some point, but similar things happen when you buy
merchandise on line and pay no sales taxes vs. buying at a local store where
sales taxes are added.
...snip....

In California, when you file your state income tax there's a section
to voluntarily state the amount of purchases you have made through tax
free outlets and you are then required to pay the sales tax for all
those items.





...STOP LAUGHING!

Same in pa.

Greg

On Wed, 14 Mar 2012 06:56:45 -0700 (PDT), Edge
wrote:

In northern Illinois where I live, electricity is provided by ComEd.
However ComEd is really two companies. One delivers electricity and
the other generates electricity. In my last bill, that portion that
was billed for "Electricity Supply Services" accounted for only 55
percent of the total bill. As the guy who writes the checks, the
simple formula I use is Total Cost / kWh. This comes out to $0.149 per
kWh. On the bill the stated cost of a kWh is only $0.06968.


..1597 total here in CT. That is actually down a bit from last year.
My generation rate right now is .0798. A couple of year ago, the
power company rate was much higher and I was almost 20¢ total.

On 3/14/2012 12:23 PM, Robert Macy wrote:
On Mar 14, 8:29 am, wrote:
...snip....
correct the imbalance at some point, but similar things happen when you buy
merchandise on line and pay no sales taxes vs. buying at a local store where
sales taxes are added.
...snip....

In California, when you file your state income tax there's a section
to voluntarily state the amount of purchases you have made through tax
free outlets and you are then required to pay the sales tax for all
those items.





...STOP LAUGHING!

That line item has been on the PA tax return as long as
I can remember. On occasion they have been known to obtain audit
information from other states and send out letters.